ProPress vs Push Fittings | Pressure Test
ProPress vs Push Fittings | Pressure Test
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⏰ Chapters:
Intro ▶️ 00:00
Unpacking fittings ▶️ 01:00
Putting fittings together ▶️ 02:56
QuickFitting Test ▶️ 03:48
ProPress test ▶️ 05:28
SharkBite Max test ▶️ 06:30
Best fitting? ▶️ 08:35
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Thanks for watching! I'm Roger Wakefield, The Expert Plumber, and welcome to my channel. On this channel, it's ALL about plumbing. We play games, we experiment, and we have FUN here, talking and learning about all things plumbing!
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I would very much support a continual ProjectFarm-esque subseries of videos testing hotly debated plumbing topics! Great idea Roger
We plan on making more of these! Do you have anything specific you'd like to see us test?
These debates don't exist in my country they ended about 20 years ago when Mannesmann introduced the Mapress press system (Geberit bought the patent of Mapress since Mannesmann doesn't exist anymore)
I'd love to see tool comparison, particularly including Klein and Knipex among others. Also a fun topic would be backstory and current code around tying off electrical grounds to copper plumbing.@@RogerWakefield
@@RogerWakefield One thing I would like to see is a comparison between copper, steel and pex and sizing in regards to heat transfer. I’m doing air/water heat pumps, and this is something people can really debate.
And thermal imagers are only getting better and less costly.@@Y-oldfaithful
Love it! I totally agree with Roger...If I'm paying a master plumber to come repair something at my house, I want him to solder or use PEX with expansion fittings. If I'm doing my own stuff, I'm probably using press ons, both are fine. If I have 1600 PSI in my water system, I have way worse problems than those fittings.
You buying a propress for own home repairs ?
@@TH3huntz354 No I meant PTC or slip ons like the Shark.
Tip: if you have a specific request for how you want something repaired, mention that when you hire someone. Don't just leave it up to the tech
Honestly expansion pex blows out the fittings before the crimp will. Crimp blows out the pipe. Anything under too much pressure or from freezing is going to blow out somewhere. Propress fittings blow off from freezing easily. No matter what, extreme conditions will cause a problem. Just some hold up a little longer.
You dont have 1600 psi in ur water system wtf
I feel better about my Sharkbites that I installed in my house after watching this video. No one installed shut off values on the laundry sink, and that how I chose to fix the bad cartridges in the sink. I agree with you 100% Roger on Sharkbites not being used by plumbers. My mom had a contractor redo her bathroom, and he did everything in PEX-B and Sharkbites. I was was upset, with him because the crimp system on PEX-B isn't that hard to use either.
Another test that would be good is lower pressure like 500-1000 psi and cycle it up and down until failure
Whose home is under 500 psi?? Just do the freeze test.
I'm impressed by all three.
This is great content. I'm an electrician, but I have been around some ProPress stuff, and always had questions about anything relying on an o-ring for long periods. This video covers something a little different, but reinforces the idea that proper installation is the key to any of these methods, as I have seen some failures of press fittings on the job.
O-rings have been in use for decades, nearly a 100 years in some places. It's a non-issue.
Roger thank you!
Roger what you are doing is pure quality. I wish one day we can see you and project farm collab on something!
Love your videos Roger!
Thanks for watching them!
Great test! Loved it.
I love that! What did you like most about it?
@@RogerWakefield I like that you were fair, unbiased and non-judgmental about the testing and results. seems like this particular topic is a never ending argument from various plumbers and tradesmen and you just put the facts out there and let people make their own decision. Presentation was excellent and fun to watch!
Propress does rely on the O ring for the seal, it’s secondary to the mechanical compression of the copper. Silver cymbal tested the fitting with out the o ring and it still didn’t leak with normal pressure.
Love this content
Interesting test. The results may have been skewed due to the small sample size (one of each) and the fast pressure change. I would recommend testing at least three of each and increasing the pressure very slowly instead of pressurizing it so quickly that you cant even see what the burst pressure is with the naked eye. The problem is that the fitting may actually work themselves off slowly over time. I would probably do a few tests increasing the pressure a few hundred psi per second to get an approximate range. Then you can increase the pressure quickly to say 75 precent of the value then instead it by 50 psi a second to give it time to equilibrate. Then do another test where you leave it cost to the pressure for a few days to see if that changes anything. Please also include the regular shark bite for comparison.
Awesome video!! I would love to see this test with something a little more realistic like multiple water hammers. Would the press fitting or push-connect slowly work their way off the pipe after multiple water hammers?
Not unless it has some serious pressure levels. Those teeth bitr onto those pipes pretty good.
City water is 250psi by me. Sharkbites will hold it. Still not using them when I can solder almost as fast and cheaply.
First of all, i love your channel. Long time follower. Stop video at 2min to write this. I have seen your previous videos testing sharkebite fittings. Glad to see a new video using there new "max" fittings, as I do sell this product at my supply chain. (Pace Supply) looking forward to see if sharkebite improved on their design. Also, because I dont recommend this product unless it is need for a "quick fix". Thank you.
What are you thoughts after watching?
New subscriber Thank you .
Awesome! What type of content would you like to see?
The best thing about SharkBite is the fact it's a quick repair. Just don't let it freeze. I prefer propress, but from a budget perspective, PEX B with a compressed ring is a great alternative.
That's a good take. What makes you prefer PEX B over PEX A?
Sharkbite used to be made in Alabama but now they are not anymore. But a pro plumber should be soldering it if all possible.
Adding a soldered joint would be good also
Great video I put sharkbites on the outside for the washer and it is working perfect 👍 thanks 🙏
Agree shouldn't have an issue with any of those. I personally would worry more about how they age. How long is that O-Ring going to work in a hot unairconditioned space under a house which also gets a bit chilly (just above freezing) in the winter. I personally replumbed with PEX crimp fittings and my family member who was helping was dumbfounded that I could replumb the house in a little over an hour. He complained about crawling around in his place dealing with copper and steel lines for hours and still having problems, even then I told him replace with PEX. I will have to say however I know of one area where the water pressure was probably WAY above what it should have been. My girlfriend was living outside of Pittsburgh PA when we met and I have no CLUE what the pressure was as I didn't have the tools to check but it blew a hole in the side of a brand new hose. I would guess above 150 PSI but she lived at the bottom of a hill which was around 1000 feet ASL with the water tower located closer to 1325 feet ASL. Actually I am geek enough to do the math and say 9.759 atmospheres of pressure or about 146 PSI based on the rough guesstimates which exclude the height of the water in the tower, lol. Anyway the place didn't have a pressure reducing device on the lines so the water heater's would only last a couple years before springing leaks. And for anyone wondering about the math, it's REALLY rough but for every 33.3 feet in elevation (or depth when diving) we gain approx. 15 PSI of water pressure. It's one of the reasons why altitude diving is dangerous. At sea level we have approx. 15 PSI of air pushing down on us or 1 ATM (atmosphere) of pressure, in metric this is 1 BAR. When we go up in elevation the air pressure is lower so divers need to spend a bit longer between 10 and 15 feet under water to try and vent off more of the built up nitrogen in our systems before surfacing because instead of 15 PSI of air pressure we may have only 12 PSI of air pressure. It may not seem like much but it's a big difference and can cause a diver to have DCS (decompression sickness also known as the bends) even though the diver seemingly wasn't under water long enough to have that happen and likely wouldn't have if they were diving at sea level. The pressure calculations are also often used by fire fighters dealing with high rises, if a crew is working 20 or 30 stories in the air the truck supplying the water has to increase the pressure so that the water coming out of the hose is within a range that it can be handled while also in a range to give enough flow for the water to do it's job. I couldn't imagine trying to wrestle a fire hose with 400 PSI water coming out of it and if the pressure is closer to 10 PSI there wouldn't be enough flow to do anything. It's kinda the goldilocks problem where the pressure has to be just right.
Damn,are you ever long winded
@@daddygc5814no one read it but I’m glad he feels better after writing that 😂
…Replumbed in a little over an hour?? Yeah Right, what a load of B.S. !!!!!!!!!
@georgedavall9449 yep. Wet wall was about 6 feet from the distribution block with an open cavity underneath. One person at the distribution block and one at the endpoint. Feed a piece of pex down and poke it through the hole. Cut that line and repeat, calling out where each one belongs so they can be marked. The old lines were mostly pvc and cpvc though I did have to cut a piece of steel in one place. When you are just replacing lines it's not that hard to do unless you have to wall fish. That's the beauty of pex and an old house the holes are already there and running the lines doesn't require fittings except at the ends. Though the pro plumber who replaced the guy across the streets lines with pex and it took him all day. Took his helper all day to cut the old stuff out too... I'm guessing they had to remove 6 inch pieces at a time with all steel lines. I was appalled since that was in a place with a half basement. Now copper and steel will take all day because of all the fittings
If you got that much pressure then you just need a new place to live, awesome video!
I like to put a bit of valve grease on the pipe before installing a shark bite if I have to use them
I'd like to see you test the propress valves viega has double o rings on there ball valves nibco doesn't it would be interested to see what the difference would be
I think it’s more about what is the longevity of the o rings on all of them
Answer: you'll never know. That's how long
@@sescher4487 You've clearly never worked with servicing things that use o-rings. .5-100 years, depending on your oring, application, and luck. Back then, and now. In high quality applications.
@@sescher4487 yep the astronauts on the challenger probably never knew !
90% of what trades men do homeowners can do, the reason we charge what we charge and justify it is the knowledge we have to do the work properly and able to insure our work with warranties. Obviously theres those who overcharge and are just scummy companies but you know why we charge what we do.
Exactly. The homeowner is paying for knowledge. Just the same as if a diy'er took a car to a mechanic to diagnose a problem he can't figure out.
Efficiency is a huge part of it as well. It would take a homeowner ample more time for a simple job. You show up find the problem and fix it properly in 2 hours. A homeowner would have 2 hours researching how to find the problem.
maybe 1 in 100 trades person who actually does proper job, at least in so called western countries, from my experience and what others tell me
Insure and warranty, lol fancy words to make you feel better?
well its a fine line between charging fair and beingb the scummy one. i mean the scummy ones say they charge for what they know not what they do as well. you need to charge enough to stay in buisness but if everyone is getting 500 an hour you arent doing it for 50. the scummy ones drive the going rate up for the honest guys too its called supply and demand. If another plumber can work for half of what you charge and do better work guess what you wind up having to lower your price or starve. but if they are all charging much higher prices the "honest guy" will raise his prices due to "experiance and knowledge" or how bout this just because he can. its human nature
1500 PSI seems to be plenty strong considering the input pressure of 'city water' as long as the joints are all prepped correctly and all the copper flake is removed from the bevel. As the home owner, I'm ok with using Shark Bites at locations in the basement where I'm transitioning from copper to PEX so that I can do what I want with the PEX up stream, but once it's PEX, I'm using PEX fittings. Probably springing the Dewalt Pro-PEX tool-only during my next bathroom renovation to help me with the shower plumbing- the price seems about right when it's on sale.
When use to plumb large new apartment buildings. I had test gauges made up for the city inspector with sharkbite coupling. I would air each apartment up to 100 psi overnight before scheduling inspections so sometimes a couple days at 100 psi. Then remove after inspector left. And reuse the same sharkbite fitting on the test guage over and over and over again. Sometimes i would get test guages sent out from the office that where obviously used at another large jobsite with a old beat up sharkbite coupling and i never had a sharkbite leak. All you have to do is clean the pipe and push them till they bottom out. NO I DON'T WORK FOR SHARKBITE 🤣
I for sure expected the brass pro press adapter to fail before the copper cap. I’d be curious if it would hold pressure if re-pressed. A thing about the push fittings that makes them look shoddy when installed is how much they move all over the place.
According to Viega, you can repress fittings after moving them. Not sure if a pressed fitting would slide back on the deformed pipe where it blew off from though. In their demo, Viega moved the fitting with pipe wrenches and repressed it.
what would it takes to remove the sharkbite cap...
Can you test variable pressures that the home system would experience? Pressure released then back to holding pressure, repeat.
roger, Roger
I’m confident with all of ‘em. If you have time and space, solder. If you can spend a ton on tools, press fittings. No time or space, sharks and quicks.
1:49 brilliant video editing 😅
Would be interesting to see olive compression fittings with copper, and all the fittings again with PEX. In the UK mains water can be up to 10 bar/ 145 psi. I lived somewhere at 9 bar for a while, violent water hammer in that place 😂. Everything was soldering, no leaks.
Did you ever do a soldered connection in the pressure chamber in any of your previous vids?
I did, a month or so ago
@@RogerWakefield Thanks man I'll look for it.
Typical resi water pressure should rarely be over 80 PSI so you have like a 10X overhead factor of safety, at least, with any of these fittings. This sorta settles the issue.
Did that sharkbite spark on the second run?
Do a pressure test for compression, CPVC and PVC fittings
Try Propress copper fittings vs brass fittings.
Just wand to point out that if the entire system that was installed with faucet . Shark bite fitting , I believe that the faucet fail first , also by code the max pressure for the line is 65psi . So I believe it is can hold over 65psi which is more than what is allowed by code than I believe it is good for quick repair .
The problem with push to connect is that they will losen overtime and will eventually fail. Time should be the variable not pressure, but then again how could you possibly test the test of time?
Doesn't rubber degrade over time?
I used a shark bite valve on a line I couldn't solder before I had pro press it was on a heat line after 5 years it leaked I think it was the expansion and contraction
I do however use shark bite caps sometimes when I rough if new plumbing I'll pop them on the stub outs and when I'm ready for finish pop them off I can reuse them and I don't have to cut off sweat caps that I just throw in the scrap heap
My coworker who was a licensed plumber was using sharkbite fittings when he was attempting to fix my leak. Our issue is the sharkbite did leak and we tried to release the fitting. They would not come apart. He cleaned it but we could not get it apart to recheck the pipe. I was skeptical about pro press fittings but you proved that they are reliable if done right.
Can you crimp pex a? Will it last as long/handle as much pressure?!
I don’t think it would work at all, assuming you mean the way I think you mean under very minimal pressures it would slide off or leak. Just use the expansion tool, the pex is constantly trying to squeeze the fitting
3:01 That’s what she said 😮😂 Yes I’m a child, I know
Should have tried compression fittings too. 👍👍👍
Great suggestion!
@@RogerWakefield would be great to see the results
I'd Like to see what PEX does with that sort of Pressure
Most issues that occur with snakebites are caused by improper installation. The margin of error and redundancy is incredible with them.
Can we do rehau?
Shoulda tried john guest fitting
I’ve been itching for a 3000psi shower, now I know how, thanks!
Any press fitting that can handle up to 480 psi of water hammer will be good. I still do not use press fit inside walls.
I think they would’ve lasted a little longer if the pipe was clean with some emery cloth and steel wool. It would help with added more friction.
I was only an apprentice but I do not remember ever seeing anything pushing out 1000psi am I wrong here I generally thought normal pressure was like 70-100 lbs of pressure if I’m being a know nothing apprentice turned maintenance man
The highest water pressure on hot & cold water lines was in a slaughter house when they were running a 150 HP booster pump at night when c!meaning crew would go to lunch. Used to blow out an ice maker several times a year until they installed pressure regulators on lines. Pressure would reach 175#'s !
Power of water hammer can break stuff so I like they are over engineered
Install an RPZ with shark bites, it spins when it discharges 😂
7:34 😂 sharkbites are strong
I don't think my problem with pro-press or sharkbite is that it would fail, it's very well engineered.. it's just simply the cost compared to PEX. The tools, and the fittings for them are just not economical. Cooper pipes have their place and it's not single family or multi dwelling units for humans.
Then where is coppers place? If not in single family dwellings? Only commercial?
I’ve never encountered 1,000 psi. I’ll stick with the affordable push ons.
Are those sharkbite pro max
Yes
Sample size of 1 isn't ideal, nor was just ramping up pressure if you really want to know what they can handle. The first is easier than the second, just test more. The second should be done at incremental increases in pressure with time between increases to see if it begins failing. Much harder to do...
I see Facebook posts on a plumbing fails group hating on Sharkbite so the reception is 50/50
What concerns me about these quick connect fittings is not the PSI resistance when they are new....I am worried that a 1/16" Rubber O-Ring degrades over time and any degradation is a problem with that thin sealing area. Grey Polybutylene in the 60s and 70s worked great when new....but we know what happened there. I can sweat a fitting in less than a minute that that is a truly permanent piece of work. I agree that plumbers should not be charging to do something that the homeowner can do.
rubber degradation is actually pretty well studied subject. Once of the reasons I actually don't fear them failing is because I know the biggest three causes of rubber degradation are oxygen, heat, and uv light. Literally, not a single one of those is a factor for these kinds of fittings. We have been using rubber o-rings in things like cars and valves that last 30 years with no issues. Think about the wear on something like a car bushing and that still lasts 15-30 years exposed to things like salt water from roads and high friction and heat and constant movement.
Hey Roger Wakefield I'm Johnny Wakefield
Hey Johnny Wakefield 😅 great name
I mean, I think a plumber should use the best pipes and fittings because they are suppose to be professional and for insurance purposes you wouldn't want anything to go wrong with your work.. That said, I think a weekend DIY'er fixing a busted line with shark bite is perfectly fine.
I’m a pro press guy, I can’t get on board with the other fittings
If ur paying anyone to do plumbing at your house and you see a shark bite tell them to leave immediately, I almost consider the same for Pex b (crimp clamp) as well , if I see a pro using that or buying it except for maybe a transition to wirsbo press I laugh at them
What happened at 8:24?
See old school plumber, nothing wrong with press/push. Leave room to cut it out if it starts to leak over time.
Pressure test water heater brands.
Like the idea, could be very dangerous, but we have it written down! Thanks for the suggestion
Do this.
I just passed my journeymen test today!
That's amazing! Congrats to you
@@RogerWakefield Thank you!!
Hope you got some time under your belt, not a greenhorn book smart type got mine in 1992 plumbing since 1984 used to be 2 years before journeyman , with references .
@@user-xe8rh9qi7y Oh I definitely have time under my belt, 4th generation plumber, comes naturally
My biggest thing with pro press and WHY I DONT use it is, I DONT TRUST IT.. You ream your copper pipe cause If you don't, a vortex is created at the pipe end usually at a fitting, which can create a hole in the fitting over time. and they say you don't want to change the water flow, witch the propress makes it basically squared ... so it goes from round to square back to round and back and forth.. Please put light on this since I would LOVE to use propress.. lol
Wow 6 bar here in the nederland its Just 2 bar
Roger I want to work for you
Probite ?
Perfect
I want to see a cold weather test. Maybe drop some liquid nitrogen and see what happens to the 3.
2 foot of copper? Not 6/8 inches...I feel like it's still a " soft spot " vrs solder...
What i want to see is propress vs braise.
I did Braze! about a month ago you may have to scroll down a bit
Them new shark bites are horrible they leak on the ports on the side offten
If your water pressure is even 10% of any of these fails, all your other shit is going to fail as well. Faucets, valves, etc.
The issue with 🦈 bites is that with time will leak at least that what l have seen
I think the value of an electrician or plumber doing the work and not your average homeowner is not the skill required to solder copper pipes or twist 6 14 gauge solid wires together and into one wire nut... But more so on the knowledge of how to do it correctly and safely. Hell if you come do plumbing and use PEX or those quick lock electrical nuts and finish your job faster so I get billed less hours. By all means do it. Win win for all. (assumption here is the job is done right and quality parts are used)
thing is in real life situations bote should last but we know that both have failures and 1600 vs 3200 really means nothing to every day use but obviously dont use either with a pressure washer .
I wonder what those garbage white plastic copper fittings (unions, couplers, tees, 90's) will blow at...
It’s called a transition fitting. PVC has a max temp of 180 degrees and we pressure tested at five foot of head pressure international code calls for ten foot of head pressure hope that helps.
If they fail your not using the right glue or your not getting your burrs out. Not residential water service should be higher than 80 psi
I live in high country where we experience freezing. Shark bites will release when the pipe freezes and separate, the teeth do not hold when the two pieces of pipe are expanded with the water freezing. There are some tests on you tube showing this problem. I would only use them in an emergency TEMPORARY repair.
Regarding freezing, the shark bite became a fuse saving the pipe. No fitting will prevent damage with freezing, only more or less damage depending on the weakest link.
I agree. I'm an irrigation tech and I've seen shark bite fail on copper numerous times.
Now instead of copper use pex
I’ve tested pex
I hate lazy plumbers and would never hire a plumber who uses sharkbites.
Pressure it not the problem,the problem is the vibration and the water hammer
What a dumb ass thought process. Pressure is exactly the problem. Water hammer is an oscillating pressure wave. Vibration is also a vibrating pressure wave. Want to re-think that bold, dumb ass statement?
I'd love to see your engineering degree. I'm guessing the school of KZhead, LLC?
@@thomassears4920 well clearly you don't have either common sense or a degree, as you claimed it has nothing to do with pressure yet you describe two forms of pressure waves.
Pretty pointless when we have about 30, not 3000 psi coming into the property.
Customers cant do.
You need a slower pressure build-up and/or a faster pressure gauge. I like what you're doing here, but you're leaving a lot of data on the table with this setup.
since when did dave ramsey become a plumber
Dave Ramsey has a goatee...
Never did fully trust "shark bite" or Chinese finger cuffs! Lol Especially under foundations or any under concrete applications.. Pro -press well, Even though more efficient when installing correctly requires the expensive tool. Let's see how this new product is. Open to faster/ easier ways although these fittings aren't cheap I'm sure! Old school for me that never failed yet has been sweat fittings that are just a little bit less expensive but takes a bit more time for the prep...
Sharkbite has a rubber oring, which is not servicable once behind a finish wall. Others atleast are crimped. I still dont trust sharkbite.
I work I hydraulic research and development, you do not turn the air regulator up that high and pump that fast. You come up slowly in increments, perform holds at various rated working pressures, then 2x 3x and 5x, then to ultimate. The testing you performed has no product integrity validation factor.
I know for a fact shark bite fittings cannot withstand a garden hose, somehow getting wrapped around your tire and being pulled out by the force of a car idling out of the driveway