Which "Big Cannon" WWII Aircraft Was The Best Submarine Killer? | IL-2
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0:00 Overview
2:46 Junkers Ju 87 D3 - 2 x 37mm autocannon
4:19 Henschel Hs 129 B2 - 1 x 30mm autocannon
7:33 Hawker Hurricane IIB - 2 x 40mm autocannon
9:31 Ilyushin IL-2 42 - 2 x 23mm autocannon
12:19 Ilyushin IL-2 43 (AKA IL-2M)- 2 x 37mm autocannon
15:24 Messerschmitt Me 410 A1 - 1 x 50mm autocannon
18:49 de Havilland Mosquito FB Mk. XVIII (Tsetse)- 1 x 57mm autocannon
22:10 Bell P-39L-1 Airacobra- 1 x 37mm Autocannon
24:19 Republic P-47D28 Thunderbolt - 8 x .50 machine gun
27:59 Hawker Typhoon Mk. IB - 4 x 20mm autocannon
29:36 Summary
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The acoustic SR71 (Mosquito) strikes again. God bless you Geoffrey de Havilland you wonderful human being.
The B-25G Mitchell had a 75mm cannon, as did other aircraft such as the Henschel Hs 129B-3 and Junkers Ju 88P-1.
.... You know it's good when even Cap says something was "unnecessarily violent".
The BK 50 on the Me 410 wasn't for taking out trucks, rather it was A2A against bombers. Hence the HE.
And reloadable by the crew member.
@@johnsmith-gk4td I don't think it was as it was in the bomb bay with the cockpit floor in the way and no obvious way to reload the feed system on diagrams I've seen. It turned out to not be very effective as the rate of fire was so low that it was difficult to use when there was a large angular velocity (that is, close in, where MK 108s were effective) and firing at long range (the intended method - outside the range of bomber defensive fire) was difficult because it was at long range.
I agree it may not have been as effective as intended but It could be reloaded in flight. I watched a documentary years ago discussing this.
Oops, your right. I was thinking of the 20mm that was internal.
@@johnsmith-gk4td the MG/FF might have been reloadable as they were drum fed, but that 410 had 151/20s which were belt only.
I don't know if the damage model takes this into account, but you would want to hit the hull as perpendicular as possible to reduce glancing blows and have the smallest amount of armor to penetrate. Many of the runs I saw were coming in at angles that would have made almost any round glance off.
"If you like Big Cannons..." That's what she said! 🤣🤣🤣 Video Valued by Valued Viewer - Fly Army!
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@@mattgn39 🚁
Nice to hear Red's voice. I miss the ole gang from ARMA 3.
Same
That is one of the things I wish DCS would improve: _clipping._ It really looks cheap when vehicles move through one another or the ground.
and damage models for ships beyond a simple bulletsponge hitbar. Most ships would be out of order after only a fraction of what they can take in DCS. IL2 damage model and DCS Terrain&graphics...
Yeh this is where IL-2 is king.
@@5Andysalive Even a dud anti-ship missile from the right angle and altitude is all it takes to sink a modern destroyer. An AM39 Exocet had hit the HMS Sheffield's forward engine room and failed to detonate, though it disabled her electrical distribution and main firefighting systems anyway. She later flooded and rolled over while being towed after the crew had abandoned ship, unable to fight the flames.
Now a comparison flight in IL-2. Using bombs and rockets, were they right to abandon the cannon?
Just beautiful, the whole video was superb. Many thanks Cap and the Boys.
I’m going to familiarize myself with the Hawker Typhoon, that is a sweet looking machine.
DCS really needs to up their damage model to be closer to IL2 or hell even War Thunder. Then again, nice to have choices for multiple sims in which we can enjoy flight :3
Agreed
As they say, "aim small, miss small" pumping lead into the armored belt of the sub is kinda like stumping on the bullies steel clad toes. Now the conning tower and deck on the other hand... Aim for the port holes. or maybe the screen doors, if on a sub from a certain eastern European country.
Good points. Top attacks could be more effective. Excellent gunnery overall!
I think you need a B25 H model with a 75mm cannon on it. That airplane was an absolute ship killer.
Wasn't that the B-25G? If I remember right, the B-25G could carry the 75mm gun as well as bombs or a torpedo.
@@AnimeFan-gp6jb it might have been.
I'm no expert Cap, but I'd suggest your surprise at the low cannon damage of WWII aircraft is entirely based on the era's limited cannon technology. The velocity of WWII cannons was much slower than modern cannons. So while for the past 50 years, say a 30mm cannon would be a terrifying, high velocity, armour destroyer. Back then, it was just a big slow lump of metal. Without velocity, it's much harder to penetrate the hardened steel of pressure or armoured hulls.
Nice vid from you guys! hope in the future GR will do more IL-2 vids^^
...with PTAB's!
that was a great intro sequence
Great competition with both aircraft/weapons performance and pilot skill playing a role.
Great video. I loved seeing the warbirds you dont see in DCS
The me 410 was used mainly as a bomber hunter. The 50mm was used for anti bomber operations since it had a really good HE rounds
Pity you haven't got the Bristol Beaufighter, had 4x 20mm and 6x .303cal, more stable platform for this sort of work, plus could take rockets and torpedoes, That Hurricane 40mm model needs seriously updating they were very effective in North Africa
The P.108A Serie 2 has an 102mm gun mounted in the fuselage
Now do a flight of AC130 with those 105mm howitzers ;)
The S gun on the Hurricane was use while flying just a few feet over the ground. They fired at close range only having time for 1-3 shot before breaking off.
i guess the crew inside the sub were putting out the fires haha casing minor fires with the .50s and the captain was shouting schnell schnell to his crew
27:25 I agree that they are modelling the deck gun exploding (because it seems to be manned by an invisible gun crew), but the other fires might be from the Type VII U-boat's decking, which was made of wood lattice so it gave traction to submariner boots. The smaller Type II boats didn't have as much and no deck gun, so they would not burn in the game, unless you use rockets or bombs.
IL2 Looking incredible, super fun video, hope to see more IL2 especially some operations with Dog Fighting. 😬
I do not know about airplanes, but I like to watch your videos.
The other thing of note which seems right is you were getting higher hit rate on rear engine and battery compartment chlorine gas was a common battery emision in shorting batteries and was the reason we got an intact sub for the first time.
That Airacobra is one funky-sounding bird.
Now Argentina have bought some old Dutch F16A and Bs you should see if they can make it to the Falklands facing Typhoons and ground to air.
I love this video
🎶 🎵 I like BIG cannons and I cannot lie 🎶 🎶
Well that was interesting. two aircrafts I have to look up. The henschel 129 and the liyushin 12-2. 👽👍
JU87 did great, maybe best overall. Imagine if it had more rounds.
Shame they don't have the B-25 that had a 75mm cannon in it. There are actually quite a few planes from WW2 with massive cannons in them. I think the Italians had the largest with a 102mm in a P.108 for anti-shipping. There's also a 75mm armed variant of the Hs 129, the Japanese have a 75mm in a Ki-67 that was renamed to a Ki-109; it seems 75mm was the largest gun most nations experimented with putting in airplanes in WW2.
Small amounts of small calibre gunfire is never going to be a ship killer. There are reasons whys guns and magazines grew in size and numbers down the years. It is though a very entertaining watch. Need to see a game with the submarine moving.......
I'm surprised you didn't include the p-38 lightning, I believe it could also be armed with a big cannon that could go after the subs as it was effective on surface ships.
P-38 has a single 20mm Hispano and you can see how ineffective four of them are with the Typhoon
Some nice big cannon fun there Cap but I wonder how an A10 would stack up in the Sub Hunter roll ?
The P 39 was supplied only with HE rounds for its 37mm, it was never intended or actually used as anti tank .
in game we have access to AP rounds
With how many rounds the p47's have, and how a couple of the boys were coming in from very hugh angles, i could see how the got a couple subs.
Interesting! I have to say that-although I understand why you chose 'on fire' as the kill marker-I'm pretty sure the actual kill count was a lot higher for most of the aircraft. The pressure hull on a U-boat is about 18mm and it's not armor grade steel. The resistance to pressure comes from the shape of the hull more than the thickness of the steel. I suspect a lot of those rounds penetrated the upper hull which means the sub is incapable of diving and will probably sink-just not too fast. Incidentally, the gun on the P-39 was located under the pilot's seat. According to Edwards Park, former head of the Smithsonian Air & Space Museum who flew them in WWII, firing the cannon gave the whole war 'a subtly sexual sense'. The 20mm that some were armed with fired faster, while the 37mm was slower. I think he said he was a 37mm man himself, but it's been years since I read his book "Nannette" about his P-39 who recognized in him a fellow coward and saved his life by acting up on dangerous missions. I highly recommend it.
I wonder how historically accurate this is, but I know that IL-2 prides itself on getting things like projectile mass and velocity right.
Tonight on Tora Tora Tora, we test the crash worthiness of some submarines
Best aircraft for ground attack in my opinion was the Bristol BeauFighter and P-47 Jug with rockets
That was music to my ears.
Dakka dakka dakka dakka!
Part time, casual observer here... Do the IL-2's have the capability to use PTABs? It would be interesting to see how well they might work in A2S, or against a hardened bunker (pillbox). Also, a pity there isn't a P-38 Lightning to add into this experiment... or even a B-25H. Keep up the good work, GR team. - Thanks
Mosquito Tesetse and for everyone of 618 squadron !
Great video Capt. How about one on rockets????
Good video cap, are they using armor-piercing with P-47D
Doubt it, probably just the huge amounts of MG fire bugged the damage models a bit I suspect.
you used the Stuka wrong it's a dive bomber / attack plane you should have went in vertical against the sub😢
I do miss the B25 G in this video
CAP - The biggest problem with the He-129 was the Gnome-Rhone engines. It was a decent ground attack aircraft
If you like big cannons…… ohhh errr matron…. 😂😂
You missed one of the most famous... the P-38 Lightning , 37mm cannon in the original version at least in sims and by many reports it was an amazingly stable gun platform and all around beast despite it not really being designed as a fighter..the 20mm cannon version was arguably better because 150 20mm rounds is better than 15x 37mm ones
You could try with both armor piercing and high explosive ammo.
Wot, no Beaufighter? The sank a few if memory serves.
unfortunately not in IL-2 Great battles, all of us want it to be added 😥
miss the friday funday live streams from IL2 good to see you back in game and killing subs
Il-2 is on Thursdays and we still play it, just Cap has IRL stuff to do. Hopefully he will get to play again soon.
Armor angling is a thing. The effective armor thickness is much more at an angle than it is at a perpendicular. Also, the chance of the round just bouncing off and not penetrating is greater when there is anything other than a perpendicular angle. You would have better results, from all the planes if you would try to be as perpendicular to the target as you can.
You need to play this more often the graphics are beautiful. Do they have battleships? It would be lovely if you could do a naval battle in IL2.
Yup planning some more naval stuff.
@@grimreapers your a stud thank you.
Re: hull thickness: apparently we're looking at less than one inch of high tensile....so 🤷♂️ really? HE moving at near mach 1 can't do anything to an inch? Even via kinetics that's gotta sting.... "Pampanito was one of the "thick skinned" Balao class submarines whose thicker pressure hull allowed for an increased maximum diving depth to over 400 feet, a depth of 100 feet beyond the earlier Gato class boats. The increase in operational depth, one of the best kept secrets of the war, was accomplished by switching from 5/8-inch mild steel to 7/8-inch high tensile steel hull plates"
Tht wuz Coolbeanz!!😊
You need to do it with ac-130 and a10, just for the comparison
What about the short Sunderland? Had a bit of a rep as a sub killer
I wonder how the P-38L would have done?
P-38 j or b-25j Also the p38 is the only one that actually took out a ship with only cannon fire
It might be a nice fantasy scenario if you ran in an A10 or two.
Pretty sure the Mosquito is the only one of these actually designed for sub hunting, and they only built 17 of them.
What about the 75mm in the B-25 or the German Hs-129 and Ju-88 with the 75mm?
sadly we can't fly planes that are not in the game
@@scarecrow184 Somebody at the US Naval War Collage researched the history of the 75mm Cannon on the B-25 and wrote a paper about it which is on line on the Defence Department's web site. Turns out the weapon wasn't that effective due to a very slow rate of fire.
Bombers aluminum skin bombers were the target of the Me-410.
Agreed
Would like to see the B-25 with the 75mms gun
CAP - Don't forget the B-25h Mitchell with a 75mm cannon.
You have to aim below the waterline. Hitting the deck is not going to sink a boat very effectively.
It would be difficult to detect a pressure hull crack as it would be above the waterline.
Is there a P-38 Lightning in DCS? Would love to see it in action!
P51 Mustang 6 .50 cal with 380 rounds for ea inner and 270 rounds ea for outer?
wish they had a Beaufighter in DCS
What about the Italian p108 serie 2 (I think) with its over 100mm gun?
i know in silent Hunter 3 you were toast if you stayed up. Not necessarily sunk but too damaged to dive. Aka toast. Also has the ugly Henschel cockpit a bit of a F-117 vibe to it? Probably just me :P
I see it
I think you expected the Hs 129 with the 75mm cannon, but that one was barely flyable.
Did the Airacobra really sound like that? Wasn't expecting that whining sound.
I've seen one at an airshow (or a P-63). I don't recall the whine.
Is the B25 not modelled? It was used to good effect as a ground attack and an anti-ship platform.
Its weird watching the Mozzie without matrix flying it
Agreed
Mk 103 is higher velocity and Mk 108 is faster rate of fire, who ever said the opposite got that mixed up.
no I said the MK 101 was higher velocity than the MK 103 but the 103 had a higher rate of fire. I didn't mention the MK 108
Did you use the AP rounds in the P-39?
Imagine an ac130 as a sub hunter in ww2
There is sinking a ship and then there is mission kill. The latter is the easier to achieve.
What Gs are being experienced in those pull ups after the gun run? Survivable, by either the pilots or the planes?
Agree, they look very harsh.
correct me if im wrong wouldnt it have made more sense to try a higher attack angle meaning try and go through the deck not the hull?
By the time you were close enough to have enough penetration you'd be too low to pull out. A beam attack gets you closer to 90 degrees and the sub is mostly cylindrical so you have some hope of a perpendicular hit at most shallow beam attacks given the spread of rounds.
Problem is it's soooo dangerous diving at steep angles like that, you have to be really discplined.
MK 103 isn't mark. It's MachinenKanone
thx
P38 had 4x 50cal plus a 20mm cannon.
Are some of those fires the result of the ammo of the sub's AAA cooking off?
Beauforts and Beaufighters please
Why didn't you use the US plane B-25H with a 75mm gun or the HS129 with a 75mm gun?
No HS 129 B3 with the BK7.5 75mm auto canon?
A bit surprising, erratic results. Mossy - dead on :)
Why no stern attacks, then any drop shorts will lead on to the bow.
Problem is the sub is so narrow that it's REALLY hard to hit like that. Many more hits side on we find.
Does the game have different armor values depending on where the sub is hit?
Not sure TBH, but IL-2 has good damage models in general.
The main thing I don't like about IL-2 is the cameras being way too cinematic... everything's such a long focal length and the movement has momentum, so things get very spinny and sluggish. For replays, fine, but general gameplay? Just give me a proper flat orbit cam.
Agreed, I've always struggled with it.