Do people spawn too far apart? Are spawn points too variable in nature? Discuss.
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0:00 - Houngougone's struggle
0:36 - C Shape Summary
2:20 - de_Ancient's spawns
2:58 - Non-priority spawn maps
3:58 - Summary of spawn variances
6:46 - Non-Valve Mappers
8:46 - Conclusion
The entire team should spawn as one vertical column of players stacked one atop the other. The team must work together and coordinate so the players on the top don't die from fall damage. The teams then proceed to the center of the map and feed themselves into a giant meat grinder. More remaining HP means more meat. The team with the largest resulting hamburger patty wins.
rifl
hb_dust2
That’s the best comment I’ve ever read
Take notes. Valve.
This could be a community mod like surf maps
It seems like every few months I go "Huh, I don't play this game but this video seems like a neat concept" and I'm greeted by the pleasant surprise of KliksPhilip's voice
I havent played cs go since the xbox 360 version but i keep up with his videos because they are well done and mean something more about game design than cs go to me
Now’s the time for a history KZheadr Esports team, they’ll take pro CSGO by storm.
0:00 ah yes, what a pleasant voice it is. the cadence, the pitch, how soothing.
@@what9093 Yup, too bad the score is the only game in town when its pretty generic and bad
This is also my experience. I wish someone would go this deep on games I actually play. (Read: Dota)
I love it when HOUGUGHUAGHUEHEEEEEEE gets mentioned.
Ratio
I literally died everytime he said it 🤣😅🤣
@@Alendo Ratio
I have no idea how he can say it and not collapse laughing
@@powEnvy (1+√5)/2, take it or leave it
4cm apart. increases team bonding
@@powEnvy why do you comment ratio under each comment
@@kipchickensout new word for him I guess
@@kipchickensout Ratio
@@kujala1633 kids do be like dat doe
@@powEnvy do you have the full image of ur pfp? i've been looking for it
The fact that CT's could completely lose top mid control on Mirage if nobody gets the spawn closest to the vent makes me surprised nobody is really talking about this
@@powEnvy L
I very often get to mid first as a CT, no matter my spawn maybe they procrastinate at T spawn
all you need is someone on A to flash mid, ez
are you talking about silver who used awp for 2days and no teammates know any flash xD
@@viethoangpham445 Nobody in silver knows how to take mid
Ok, I'm sold. I'll be using the 'C' shaped spawn point layout from here on out. Thank you for taking the time.
I hope this becomes common practice in the mapping community and people use the phrase "always remember! C for communism!" when teaching others
@@powEnvy L
@@Girvo747 Ratio
@@powEnvy L
@@funi1083 Ratio
1:34 I love how the jump into death is marked as a route to exit the spawn with an arrow here :D
it's the since-patched route to t spawn!
I was looking for this comment.
It matches the narration of “exit the spawn”, at least.
I'd love more videos on anything Jeff talks about, just to hear you say Hounganghounghe.
Hheuuehheh
Hunune
Hmongus
It's the most artistically correct interpretation of the name I've heard so far
Ah yes, HUNAAAUAAAGHHH; my favourite twitter person.
Having that 0.1s less charge time could be game changing, you could be a whole meter ahead of everyone when you get headshot from across a large area!
Yeah it doesn't change much. But neither do bullet accuracy and we have lots of clips where it ducks people over
what do you mean by charge time?
@@TECHNICKER_Cz I would guess running time
@@tunnelmannen ok, that makes sense
Yeah but I wouldn't be so quick to conclude that the team with better RNG always wins. Adapting to good/bad RNG is a skill in of itself.
1 second into the video and i had already spilled my drink laughing
I'm rolling around laughing like a little kid. 😂🤣😂🤣😂
😂😂😂😂😂
'so many shades of grey that i woke up chained to my bed', thats one of my favorite things about watching youtubers like philip, the subtle stuff is ingenious
@@ashton35 You don't like the (debatably) subtle jokes?
The Arrested Development reference is great too
8:30 Invalid spwanpoints give an error message in the console, e.g. "Invalid terrorist spawnpoint at (,,)". Can easily be found in the console using "con_filter 1; con_filter_text spawnpoint" before launching the map. But yeah, a compiler warning would be nicer, maybe.
As a research assistant myself, I have to praise your approach to proving and disproving claims. I can 100% see you being a lead in a research team at a university. I love how you mention all the limitations of your methodology. In my area, we call them threats to validity, and there are 5 types, each with its own descriptions and significance. Cheers
4:38 that arrow pointing off the building into the void is hilarious lol
I have small suggestion. When you are showing graphs/tables please move them a bit higher so subtitles dont obscure the info :)
you can change subtitle size with + or -
Yes please. I was watching this on my tv with no way to change the subtitles.
I think you can move the subtitles around
On desktop you're able to freely move subtitles
you can literally change the position and size of the subtitles, and even their opacity.
I have a medical final exam tomorrow cant concentrate for 10 m straight, yet i watch 3klik video harder than anything I ever studied
@@3kliksphilip I'm intrigued 👀
I Hope you the best on your exam!
@@3kliksphilip Please expand.
I'm honestly surprised that by now there aren't just 5 spawns reserved just for 5v5.
It would be stupid if you always had the same spawn timings. The uncertainty introduced into the early game by random spawns is a good mechanic in my opinion.
@@kubpica it kinda kills one teams ability to push or a hold a position since in some circumstances a bad spawn will prevent you from reaching the destination in time. A big example of this is CT's rushing through vents to hold Mid on Mirage, if nobody spawns close and a T got a lucky spawn then its not fair for the CT's, their fate was determined by random chance.
@@crunch.dot.73 The other team doesn't know it, though. So the T with a lucky spawn will have to risk there being a CT holding the angle anyway.
@@crunch.dot.73 At the same time though, if you made the conscious decision to rush somewhere you were more than likely going to be late to, you cannot blame the game and its random spawns on dying there. I do still believe random spawns are just 'another thing' people need to worry about that are needlessly raising the skill ceiling, and I wouldn't miss them.
@@TheLeft4Dead2Player or maybe think it like this: I wanna go window because i'm the awper but the game says: No, i won't give it to you The reason of why it happens it still RNG, not skill
1:34 The upper one does definitely lead out of the spawn
@@powEnvy bruh how many times you gonna try this haha
@@noamias4897 Ratio
Nope
There is an important difference between input RNG (the cards you are dealt) vs output RNG (what the cards do after you play them). Only the latter is usually bad in a competitive game because you can't plan with them.
this.
@@kipchickensout There's a button for that
@@berni2905 this tbh
@@berni2905 the added comment emphasizes how much they agree, beyond a thumbs up
sure, but its not good when the card you are dealt give you a much worse odds of winning for no benefit. if everybody on dust 2 gets split between the two far sides, or if nobody gets the spawn close to the vent and loses mid control on mirage, there's noting you can really do other than just have a worse round. if it gives you opportunities that's not bad, but if it only exists to take them away then it lowers the skill ceiling and makes rounds more RNG dependent.
hey philip, just wanna tell you I always loved the chill vibe from your vids, also congrats on 1m!
I like most that he doesn't have bs in his videos. I have sponsor block and it hasn't skipped anything in his videos
I remember in beta 4, long before most of your viewers were alive, that your spawn position was dictated by your KD ratio. Took me a while to realise it, but it became a chore. I don't recall it being a thing after beta 6.
Interesting. Pls heart this comment, Phil!
Personally I enjoy spawn-based play. Realising you are actually all in a great spawn for a particular rush or whatever and changing tactic in the buy time is fun!
Stupid redditor
4:36 THAT TOP ARROW🤣
Never actually encountered a video the second it comes out. Cool stuff Phil!
Who is phil...
@@waffleman1299 The names Phil. Kliks Phil.
Ohh that explains all the notifications... :>
Have you played valorant much? In my opinion, the fact that the timings are always the same in valorant makes the game less interesting/fun. A bit of randomness is good.
I really appreciated the last route you painted leading out of Vertigo's CT spawn. Brilliant.
I greatly appreciate the quality of your writing and editing. You communicate very clearly and it makes your work a joy to consume. Thank you.
I don't even play CS:GO often anymore. Haven't really for about a year; but I still enjoy watching these video's solely because 3kliksphilip is so damn entertaining.
Same here.
Ditto.
3:05 Philip predicted the subtick system.
The opening had me dying.🤣
I love the variations of HOUNGOUNGAGNE you uttered, makes me chuckle every time.
To me having variance on the t-side actually works as a competitive element. Yes it's frustrating that you can't rush a long due to spawns. But recognizing this and calling a different play is a skill!
This is like saying "Realizing you can press W to move is a skill." It is literally just knowledge, an idiot can do it.
And also use different approaches to dominate certain areas, for example, you want to dominate mid as ct in mirage, but have a bad spawn, then you may go through the A site, bang and pick, or something like that, while with a good spawn you can just go directly and pick mid with AWP or whatever
@@Buglin_Burger7878 you missed the point
FOV clip changed to private while watching, wtf man?
Same happened to me, probably just some minor error he wants to fix and the video will be back up soon, trust in the kliks
@@pokerotter8895 I was expecting a replacement video with a smart insult from the kliks xD
how long was the vid?
i got a notification and i wanted to watch it now... rip
@@m8nu I don't remember the length, been watching at work and at about 80% it stopped.
Hey Philip, I've always enjoyed your analysis focused videos, they are often very thought provoking. I wish there was this type of in-depth analytical content for games like Escape From Tarkov.
Loved the start of the video. You had my attention from the first second with that hahaha
Great video as always bossman, nice to come home to a new video as I finish work :)
I LOVE these kind of videos of you!
1:34 anyone else thinks option D is the most appealing? XD Edit: Also 10:14 WTF Valve?!
Yeah. It's so Philip thing to do
I am all for a bit of RNG in the spawn and the C shape is good aswell, but the CT spawns for Ancient can be frustrating at times, where you get the situation of bumping into eachother seemingly every round But I guess everyone has their prefrences in how the spawnpoints should look
Your way of prounace hwowheiwbeuwhwhowwhwowhwwow is gorgeous
I feel like with the random nature of mirage’s ct spawn makes whoever is on ct side learn how to defend bombsite a and b and perhaps thus being less of a burden on their team after learning both defences.
But then there is that spawn that is far away from both sites
The "shades of gray" joke went over my head so much i only laughed after like 6 seconds lmao
what a good video idea! i always thought about this in the back of my head, how weird it is that on dust 2 you can spawn so far away from teammates where if you wanted to drop them they would have to run to get the weapon, instead of being in E reach.
"I unraveled so many shades of grey I woke up this morning chained to my bed" is an amazing line that I am 100% stealing
The shades of gray joke is underappreciated.
This is the type of content I love Phillip for. Great stuff!
Of course Philip watched Arrested Development! Gotta love him lol
I fucking love your sense of humor, great work as always. And how the fuck did you just now reach 1 million subs? this channel is absolutely fucking legendary, But congrats on 1mill
your writing is absolutely top tier, good video!
I have had an idea of combining spawn systems in CS:GO and Valorant by making it so you can run freely in the spawn area and choose where you want to go. This means if you excel at long control as a ct on Dust 2 you'd be able to play there every round, this impacting the game even more. But I do think that it would make rushes insanely OP. Especially aggressive CT plays. It would break the game, but I would still like to see that play out.
Good job you did TF2
Imo the best way to solve this issue would be to open up the whole buy area, a little like valorant but only letting the player free roam in their spawns, that way rng spawns wouldn't be a thing anymore
Congratulations on 1 million subs, Philip. You deserve it.
I really like it. It can change up your pre-round descicion making, and favor quick thinking IGLs.
This is a great video and discussion, hopefully valve will address this issue however small it may seem
Good video, never considered this much. I know when I got the window spawns in CT and T side mirage, I was always happy, and the long spawn on dust 2, I was thrilled. I never considered the spawns would be so out of order.
Why did you private the video about fov?
Lol I still cant get past thah "hounonoouu" in the begining
4:37 I love the arrow in the top right suggesting the best route is to jump of the building
The 50 shades of grey joke is hilarious and so underrated! Man, I love your sense of humour!
I love how you managed to stick a bit about throwing the AWP off of Vertigo in there somehow.
I love the video! Very interesting. I too always had the question why I ran into teammates on CT Inferno :)
The triangle spawn structure on Ancient is very interesting because it suggests deliberately induced approach variance on the T side.
That shades of grey joke caught me so unprepared i almost choked. Very classy Philip.
I like that one of the routes out of spawn at 4:36 is off the side of the building on Vertigo.
Great video! Can you check how often we get certain spawns? Like, how often do we actually get the good t-spawn on Inferno? And how often do we get the good long a spawn? And what are the chances of getting the ct-mid spawn on Mirage?
I really enjoyed watching this video. That's the type of 3kliksphilip video I like. It was informing and entertaining. I have never thought about prioritized spawns before.
yet again you are proving you are the best csgo youtuber
Awesome video and an interesting topic
An interesting aside: CTs on dust 2 can be spawned in one of the non priority spawn locations if they rejoin the game during the buy time, giving them an advantage in terms of timing to A long or, more importantly, mid to tunnels.
*nice intro*
Interesting that spawns are further forward in casual, always felt timings were weird when I had to play casual for missions
Always played Dust 2 T side just based off the spawn, this sure explains why that seemed to work.
loved the video; full of comedy and things i didn't know about weird to see someone talk about rng spawns for 10 minutes tho lol
Ratio
@@powEnvy stop saying "ratio" on every comment
1:35 i laughed too much at the arror telling that CT to jump off the building
Congrats on 1 million subs :)
next map? woooooooooooo! can't wait for "making of..." series
I like spawn variety on t side, as you said it can benefit strats from spawn. The team I was on when on T had 3 plays depending on the spawn point that we named B center A And would have strats built around those spawns
you can measure between spawns and the first point on the way to any of the standard positions which every player will run over given an optimal route i.e. a long doors, entrances to a/b/mid on cache from t spawn
My heart stopped when Philip said "...my next map..."
MIND BLOWN!
Great pronunciation of Jeff 👌
HAHAHHAAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAH THE OPNENING IM DYING HAUAHAHAHAHAHAHAA
On the Train T-Spawn I think the one on the far south corner is also a priority spawn, making it 7 for both sides
didn't knew you could set up a priority on spawns. will help a lot on my new map im making :)
You brilliant, brilliant man, you. 🧡
Holy crap, the first second catched me off guard, I almost shat my pants.
I have noticed on dust 2 ct, when a player leaves and then reconnect (on faceit) they sometimes get an absurdly good spawn. Is this due to a 5 man spawn priority which gets messed up when a bot replaces a player?
Everybody talking about timing. I would rather give some more appreciation for the first 500 Milliseconds of the Video Well done mate! :-D
im surprised from the lack of lens flare in the thumbnail, but i like it a lot anyway. i could be wrong but is this a far more polished video than philips normal style? not like his normal stuff is bad, but this one clearly had lots of time put in to each aspect, especially script writing. definitely one of my favourite videos hes made :)
I love the reference to Arrested Development in the thumbnail
this video came straight out from the "Pink Floyd school of ambience". tnx for great content!!
Love the way you have read Jeff's nickname😂
I like Valorants where you have a spawn area so you aren't screwed by rng. I'd rather they do something like that in CSGO but you're confined to a way smaller area
i think valve implemented it in retake mode or something, i think its boring. unlike irl pc games have very precise input so they have to add rng...to a certain point so that you have to think on your feet...but i thinl dust2 and mirage ct spawn need changes
If RNG isn't competitive, apparently poker isn't competitive. I'll let all the professional poker players know they'll have to get new jobs.
But cs isn't suppose to be luck game. Poker is.
If a professional poker dealer is shuffling the cards, they are random. The cards have numbers on them. They are randomly generated numbers. Don't be pedantic with me, I'm very good at it.
I've published games before, I am an authority on random number generation. In any case, things can be both random and competitive. Most sports begin with a coin toss. People who solve Rubik's cubes get different cubes every time. These are competitive and random at the same time.
@@awkwardcultism telling ppl Valve did a good job when they chose to make bullets RNG just shows how much you REALLY know about this stuff 🤭 but ey... you do you!
honestly randomized spawn seems actually MORE competitive, cause youd now have to rethink your plans if someone is a second off from one place, makes it so you never do the exact same thing over and over. its not like havana anyways where your ENTIRE plan backfires when a fence is put up
I don't even play CS:GO anymore, but I can't stop watching 3klik's fascinating analysis of every detail in the game...
I think (although I know almost nothing strategy wise in this game) it would make sense for competitive spawn points to be somewhere in the middle, in the half-ring method valve seems to like. And as for casual games, the top 5 players in the score board should spawn in the priority spawn half-ring whilst everyone else gets their spawns in the back or just in randomized spots outside the priority half-ring.
Why private the new vid huhu
For there is a man inside me, and only when he is finaly out, can I walk free of pain