What if Poland Defended Czechoslovakia and Hirohito was Executed after WW2
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#alternatehistoryofeurope #alternatehistory #poland #czechoslovakia #kodoha #japan #hirohito
Welcome to the a new episode of my viewer scenario contest. In this episode we have two scenario's. The first is what if Poland defended Czechoslovakia from Germany in 1938.
The second scenario is about the Kodoha faction empowering Hirohito, causing Hirohito to get trialed as a war criminal post-WW2
00:00 introduction
00:23 Poland supports Czechoslovakia
08:16 Hirohito gets executed
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Dude, you forgot about soviet officer purges which in this scenario were not recognized by a prior war with Finland, and without additional 1,5 years of armament. soviets would be weaker by alot!.
No thanks🙂
Honestly I believe that in 1938 Poland and czekoslovakia would have beaten Germany in conflict as they had superior armour and the panzer corp weren’t fully prepared and they wouldn’t have the Czech tanks they had in 1939
Without Soviet help there is no chance Poles and Czechs could have won
@@bartdr5146 soviets were weak after officer purges their army was definitely not ready and the polish and Czechs hated the soviets and would never work with them
@@stormwingmlx5118 so they would just get conquered by Germans after few months of fighting (at most)
@@bartdr5146 Germany hadn’t finished rearmament they were not the same army as they were in 1939 Poland and czekoslovakia would be in a much better shape than the Germans
@@stormwingmlx5118 still no chance for eastern allies in 1938 Germany spent 20 times more money on it's armed forces than Poland obviously Czechs would help a bit but still two poor (compared to Germany) central european countries would have no chance. Addition of USSR would change that. Because Soviet Union was not normal country, they put enermous sum of money into their armed forces and actually had big industrial base to compete with Germany. Still without Western Allied Help I would rate "Eastern Block" victory chance at about 35%-40%. However the only country that would really win in that scenario is soviet union because both Poland and Czechoslovakia would have become their puppet states
Many inconsistencies. 1. Poland would defend Czechs if they give Zaolzie back. It was major point of conflict as majorly Polish Zaolzie was bohemized. 2. It is not out of realm of possibility, that superior Czech Skoda tanks and Polish Military tactics could beat Germany. 3. Italy wouldn't be neutral. Italy was guarding Austria and was opposing German annexation in Poland same with Japan, so they wouldn't choose German side. "Axis" was really just an alliance of convenience, which is funny considering that the name cames from the term "Axis of Evil" Germany would be much more isolated than it was in WW 1. Side effect of this would be acceptance and popularization of fascism and the fact that people wouldn't call National Socialist Germany "fascist" as it is the case nowadays. Borders of Europe would probably stay the same for much longer. 3rd Reich would be destroyed before it has really begun and world would look even more cautiously at the Soviet Union
Poland had been looking for a partner to invade Germany in 1933-1935. The Polish dictator feared Hitler and protested his breach of the Treaty of Versailles. The countries he tried with (e.g. France) refused and then he died. I was doubtful that Poland&Checkoslovakia would win, because this scenario assumes it was a spur-of-the-moment invasion with rushed mobilisation. But, assuming strong leadership in Poland, preparations could've been going on for literal years, with this being just the pretext for a premeditated war. And, if Italy joined (with the stated goal of liberating Austria according to the Versailles), the alliance could've definitely won. And this all assumes that Poland reacted after the Dictate of Munich. They could've anticipated the result of the negotiations that Checkoslovakia wasn't even invited to, and announced their defense of its territorial integrity. If the Western Allies still went through with it, they would be the ones betraying the west-east alliance. Poland would be essentially calling Hitler's bluff before he could call the West's bluff. Chances are, he wouldn't dare invade Checkoslovakia and war could be delayed. If war started, France and Britain stayed back, but Italy helped, Germany would be stopped at the very least. Defeated and humiliation at best. Some territorial concessions could be made, probably East Prussia to Poland and some buffer lands to Checkoslovakia. Austria would be separated again. This assumes Poland and Checkoslovakia manage to settle their conflict over Zaolzie, but that's a small land compared to what they could gain on Germany and in international influence by working together. Once again, this assumes strong leadership, because minor politicians wouldn't be able to force such trades internally. Things could be complicated further if, for example, Germany convinced Hungary to invade Checkoslovakia to reclaim Slovakia/North Hungary. But that's beyond the limits of my knowledge
@@ooi97 Polish "dictator" Piłsudski recognized Germany would topple the world order, not feared him. After recognizing Allies would not fight Germany with Poland, he decided, that Poland needs to warm up with Germany, which was easily dont, because Hitler and even Goebbels were admirers of Piłsudski. Result of this warm up was 4 years of nearly friendly relations and the fact, that it wasn't until Poland declared alliance with Britain, that the old german plans for Poland were dedusted from military archives. Polish forreign minister Beck was a baffoon, nobody expected him to do harsh U turns over Czechoslovakia, as they saw him interested in being at the Munich Conference just for the sake of being there. Germany would be surprised and would almost certainly stand off from invading bolstered Czechs (lets remember, Czechs had built defences that could easily rival Maginot Line. Germans would be bugged down, while Poland would most likely find little resistance to strike through Lower Silesia and cut german forces. So a more likely standoff at least until historical RM pact in 1939 would happen. The issue is Zaolzie (and Beck, but lets ignore him for now), Which was a region with huge Polish population, was an independent duchy within A-H monarchy, and Czechs had no real claim to it other than tiny Czech minority and one railway leading to northern Slovakia. Czechs however were so hellbent on growing their territory and prolonging the list of minorities, that they used the worst time for Poland to grab Zaolzie (darkest hour of the bolshevic offensive of 1920). Which had sealed this feud till even after ww2 as in 1946 Polish and Czechoslovak peoples republics came close to fighting over it and Stalin himself needed to interven! So Indeed Poland would have needed someone like Piłsudski to forget about Zaolzie "for greater good", but we got Beck instead, who actually proposed the deal of Poland guaranteeing Czech independence for Zaolzie, but the note was sent AFTER the Munich! and without clear indication how that guarantee would be executed. Czechs ignored the note, Poland thus decided to take Zaolzie (and few polish speaking bordertowns in Slovakia) before Germans are finished with taking over Sudetenland to finnish this off: Even Germany was not surprised over this, kind of expecting it, but also hoping to get Poland as an official ally, which they had been entertaining the idea of since 1934 nonagression pact with Poland (and the fact that Poland was first forreign country to recognize Nazi regime). They were checking out Polish politicians during informal visits for any solution to Danzig question, mostly to check out would Poland be willing to make big and decisive deals with Germany. After Munich, german version (not just in function!) of Beck - Ribbentrop made the bright decision to immediately and officially ask Poland about Danzig, which Poland took as an offence. As from this point matters would deteriorate as both Beck and Ribbentrop would work in sync of blunders. And thus Germany would make harsher and harsher demands over Danzig until Poland repeating Czechoslovakian Zaolzie would be inevitable after alliance with Britain. And... The Czech version of Ribbentrop and Back was Czechoslovakias last president. Basically, Polish-Czech alliance was just as possible as German-Polish one. PS: as a follow up - If Poland would have someone who could live up to Piłsudskis stature (not just in propaganda), he could abandon Zaolzie and help Czechs, but he could just as well abandon Danzig, iron out (or indefinitively postpone!) transterritorial highway, get Hungary on Axis earlier, devide entire Slovakia with Hungary and a mutual defence guarantee. And as a Polish, i am sorry to say, but both options would be equally far better than what Poland got OTL.
I think axis cames from the rome-berlin axis, the treaty of alliance between italy abd germany
@@Slovensko89 No, it's not historical term; it was called Pact of Steel (Stahlpakt)
@@Pigraider268 oh, my bad
Poland: I don't fear you Germany: Then you will die braver than most
@This Apple Judges Who wins? 12 dudes with a low quality shit pistol (czechs and poles) or 10 dudes with submachine guns of good quality? (german army)
I've asked every alt hist channel to do the polish/Czechoslovakia alliance and none have ever done it. I
I think a wasted point of divergence for the first one was having Germany never signing a non aggression pact with Poland. Historically, Hitler cleverly kept good relations with Poland until 1939, if the Nazi had been less astute and made a louder claim of Danzig from the start Poland wouldn't have collaborated with them.
When had Poland ever collaborated with Germany?
@@ooi97They had a non aggression pact and generally had good relations until 1939.
@@antoniomariamacri7500 no they didn't.
@@ooi97Poland annexed tesin from czezhoslovakia with germany
@@wojtekkkkThey literally did. However relations did break down early 1939, and Poland ordered a general mobilisation. The allies told Poland to back down.
Here's my problem with the Poland--Czechoslovakia scenario. The German declaration of war against America was not considered an aggressive act by the Germans. In fact, the Germans had considered the Americans to have been the aggressive ones, in light of their clear bias in favour of Britain, and attacks on German subs which had occured after Pearl Harbour. The German declaration states: "The Government of the United States having violated in the most flagrant manner and in ever increasing measure all rules of neutrality in favor of the adversaries of Germany and having continually been guilty of the most severe provocations toward Germany ever since the outbreak of the European war, provoked by the British declaration of war against Germany on September 3, 1939, has finally resorted to open military acts of aggression. On September 11, 1941, the President of the United States publicly declared that he had ordered the American Navy and Air Force to shoot on sight at any German war vessel. In his speech of October 27, 1941, he once more expressly affirmed that this order was in force. Acting under this order, vessels of the American Navy, since early September 1941, have systematically attacked German naval forces. Thus, American destroyers, as for instance the Greer, the Kearney and the Reuben James, have opened fire on German submarines according to plan. The Secretary of the American Navy, Mr. Knox, himself confirmed that American destroyers attacked German submarines. Furthermore, the naval forces of the United States, under order of their Government and contrary to international law have treated and seized German merchant vessels on the high seas as enemy ships. The German Government therefore establishes the following facts: Although Germany on her part has strictly adhered to the rules of international law in her relations with the United States during every period of the present war, the Government of the United States from initial violations of neutrality has finally proceeded to open acts of war against Germany. The Government of the United States has thereby virtually created a state of war. The German Government, consequently, discontinues diplomatic relations with the United States of America and declares that under these circumstances brought about by President Roosevelt Germany too, as from today, considers herself as being in a state of war with the United States of America." Sorry for including the whole thing, but no where in that declaration do the Germans state that they are declaring war to aid Japan; the way they see it, America's actions have already violated peace between both countries, so I think it's much less likely that Germany would declare war on America in this scenario if the British and French were neutral, because then none of the conditions which the Germans stated led them to war with America would exist: there would be no American bias in favour of Britain, nor a Battle of the Atlantic.
Hi. You have the best alternate history content on the platform. Without a doubt. Your channel needs way more attention
A few years ago something like this would be considered absolute gold and get tons of popularity for the channel
Such great scenarios this time
Awesome timelines
From everything I've read, Germany was not ready for war in 1938 and were fundamentally bluffing at Munich - so the collective opposition of bit Czechoslovakia and Poland might well have worried them, especially if the (also unready) USSR came in on the Polish/Czech side..
Poland didn't even have to join. All they had to do was let Soviet troops, planes, and artillery (over 1 million troops) thru the country. Then war would have been avoided.
I love your videos you deserv far more subscribers
Poland totally missed opportunity to ally with Czech and try to build bigger coalition in central europe. I think Czech and Polish forces together could soften German forces to the point that France would consider offensive inside Germany which would collapse nazi war effort and result in much earlier and different onset of cold war with much stronger Europe and small chance for strong Japan as they could rethink attacking USA in new geopolitical situation.
0:25 You are walking on a very thin like there comrade PH
Great News! It appears KZhead hasn't noticed Comrade Serov
@@possiblehistory You can only thank TNO for making the Thule Swastika famous enough You Tube doesn't consider it any swastika.
Can you do a what if the western Roman empire survived in Iberia like it eastern counterpart.
Most of the scenarios covered on this channel are fascinating, intriguing, or at least realistic thought experiments, including the Polish defense. I cannot say such a thing for this Kodoha scenario. While the defense of Japan may have been stricter in such a timeline, they would not outlast the existing two nuclear strikes, and would certainly not require a land invasion to surrender. In our timeline, Japan was practically drafting their surrender even before the nuclear strikes and Soviet declaration, and certainly intended to do so in the short term. The vast majority of the US chain of command acknowledged this and outright opposed the authorization for nuclear strikes on urban targets, with some favoring rural or symbolic areas of Japan, and many opposed their use at all. Pretty much the only ones who weren’t opposed were MacArthur (trigger-happy), Patton (fucking insane, and he still opposed widespread usage), and Truman himself. In this timeline, the nuclear strikes would be more of a deciding factor, instead of literal overkill, but they’d still do Japan in-and if not, a third strike would certainly do the trick without a land invasion. And it goes without saying that the postwar situation described goes a lot further than the actual implications of such an event.
Yeah it is a viewer submitted scenario but it's still whacky af. But tbf if the emperor was way more central to governmental affairs than he was irl, then the Americans may not be so willing to compromise on his position and perhaps demand the abdication of Hirohito and then have him tried as a war criminal.
In the Hirohito scenario it would be funny if a alliance between Communist China, Korea and USSR invades hermit kingdom Japan due to fears of Japan developing nukes. in 2022.
Spain forgotten as always 😢 Edit: in the first scenario, and the second one was kinda wacky and unrealistic in general specially for Europe
May the algorithm bless thou with thine comment: HI
I don’t mean to be too much of a critic but I feel like the ground invasion of mainland Japan would never really happen… I think the Navy will just stay parked outside the island and lob shells and the bombers were just keep raining down ordinance on crop land until finally the people of Japan say you know what maybe this God is not worth the trouble anymore
Good ending
I think Czechoslovakia and Poland could have won the war as Germany wasn’t really ready for war and the generals had planned a coup of war did break out as they feared destruction.
Why in the world would Germany sign a treaty with Japan, while not at war with Britain or France?
I find it difficult to believe that Japan would Move South without the UK and France at war in Europe. It was the European colonial powers' weakness in OTL - being either occupied or on the ropes like Britain - that made the Southeast Asian and Pacific colonies so tempting to make Japan self-sufficient in resources. And it wasn't until Japan occupied Indochina that the US started the embargoes that led to Japan planning their strike on Pearl Harbor. It's unlikely that Japan would have even joined an Axis Pact with Germany in this TL, and Italy is neutral anyway, removing yet another source of tension with the US. It's far more likely that Japan will continue their war in China through to the mid 1940s and possibly beyond while Roosevelt tries to ratchet up the pressure on them in the face of isolationist opposition in the US. That will either end with Roosevelt ousted in the 1944 election due to all his international meddling and Japan having free reign to either continue the war in China into the early 1950s or finally accepting a peace that leaves them with the more choice territories of China, or Roosevelt reelected again and Japan finally striking at the US and the European colonies in 1945. I also find it hard to believe that the US, UK and France would be so willing to support the USSR against Germany. Communism was seen as a much bigger threat in the West than Nazism in the 1930s - this is why the 1936 Olympics were held in Berlin, and the USSR didn't participate in the Olympics until 1952. A German victory would probably be seen as preferable, up until the point that word starts leaking out about how the Nazis are treating people in the areas of eastern Europe they're overrunning. _Then_ you'd see some support start flowing into the USSR, possibly just in time to even things out more and start more of a grapple between the two sides while France and the UK watch on from behind the Maginot Line and the North Sea. Without a second front, it might end in a peace of exhaustion with Germany gaining territory against the USSR, but no outright victory.
What if Italy supported Austria in the anschluss
Spineless is to polite fucking boneless is more accurate
Hi
Nah, Czecho-Polish alliance would destory Germany. Only reason Germany was so succsessfull later is OUR gold (Czech) and OUR technology (Czech). German economy would collapse in like 3 months. Germans, without Czech technology, would not be able to destroy Czechoslovakia and Poland in just 3 months.
Hello
hello
You are missing a key element. The Brits signed the Munich agreement not just for the sake of avoiding the war. This is never talked about but the Czech government followed a pro German policy for the begin of its existence. It was they that refused to take arms and defend themselves. Now say you are the prime minister of England and you see that a country that was always on the German side refuses to take a stand and even their own allies (France) refuse to back them up. why on earth would you declare a war in their defense? Nobody respects you if you don't stand up for yourself. The Polish government knew this and refused German demands even before they received a guarantee from the Brits. I'm sorry but the main perpetuators of the Munich agreement apart from Germany where the Czechs themselves. Now say that the Czechs actually tried to defend themselves then it is almost certain that Poland and France would declare war on Germany (Beck informed the French foreign minister that he is ready to do this only if France also joined in since it doesn't make sense why Poland would join in to defend a country that even their own allies failed to). Its also worth mentioning that by then Germany army was still weak and the Czechs themselves had an army the size of the Polish but better equipped and had a much more defensible border with Germany. We also know today that the German generals were planning to overthrow Hitler if he did indeed attack Czechoslovakia since they knew there weren't ready to win if France and Poland (maybe even Italy) declared a war on them. Without an agreement with the soviets, its likely Germany would start losing ground and Hitler would be overthrown.
It's not my scenario, it was sent by a viewer. Hence the "viewer scenario contest"
hi
Poland was so naive and shortsighted between 1920 - 1939 in regards to international relations and politics that what happened to it is in a way karma to its most extreme
They even attempted an alliance with Japan
Read my comment that I just posted. Czechoslovakia followed a pro German policy. They showed no willingness to go against Germany or in fact even defend themselves from them. They also annexed Polish territories while Poland was fighting the soviets in 1920. Even so during the Munich crisis, J. Beck contacted the French leaders and offered them a guarantee that if they decide to stick their heads out for their own ally and go to war then Poland would also join in. The truth is neither the French nor the UK decided to because the Czechs themselves weren't willing to go to war and hence there was no reason for those other countries to do so.
@@zygmuntlllwaza5773 Yes. Not mentioning Zaolzie was a huge mistake in this video.
Poland had sought out allies to invade Germany in 1933-1935, because they feared Hitler's aggression. They publicly protested his breach of the Treaty of Versailles. They even offered France a joined invasion to enforce the treaty (and remove Hitler, who had already published his bestseller book). France refused. Poland wasn't naive. It was outnumbered and sold by its allies.
Greece would be communist too.
Oh look, another timeline where Germany despite having a massive advantage still loses against the soviets because "muh they've been preparing"
Watch germany could not win ww2
:)
At minute 3.18 you say Ploand surrendered. This is not accurate. Although Poland was conquered, neither the Polish government nor Polish people surrendered. either correct your misinformation or delete the posting.
Tak
0:19 Czechoslovakia is Poland's bietch
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