Three Ingredients for Murder: Neuroscientist James Fallon on psychopaths and libertarians
UC Irvine neuroscientist James Fallon had already been studying the brains of psychopathic killers for years when his mother told him that he comes from a long line of murderers (including his infamous cousin, Lizzie Borden). After studying himself, Fallon discovered that he has two of the three ingredients for psychopathology.
Fallon sat down with Reason.tv to explain why he's not a murderer, why others are, and what it is about libertarians that-just might-keep them peaceful.
Approximately 8.50 minutes.
Interview by Paul Detrick; shot by Zach Weissmueller; edited by Detrick.
Go to www.reason.tv for HD, iPod, and audio versions of this and all our videos and subscribe to Reason.tv' s KZhead channel to receive automatic notification when new material goes live.
Yet even despite all of this, he was married to his high school sweetheart for 50 years, until she sadly passed away from Alzheimer's. Most neurotypical people aren't that lucky. It really does serve as a stunning example of just how important the role of nurturing is in the development of a person.
Most psychopaths aren’t that lucky
Oh, she did die from Alzheimer’s? That was their big fear. Both of her parents died from Alzheimer’s. In fact, that was one of the reason’s they initially did the PET scans of the family. He needed a “normal” control group for a study he was working on (for Alzheimer’s, ironically), but also it was an opportunity to see if her brain showed any signs of the disease. Which it did not at the time. I wonder what all of this means for their children.
I think I remember he said 80% of the outcome of an individual's psychology has to do with nurture.
@@tatie7604 It depends on the type of outcome. It’s very easy to create a predictable bad outcome consistently in people but the same cannot be said about a good outcome.
BELIEVING a psychopath is their big "win".
Dr. Fallon is to be admired for his total honesty about his ancesters and the psychopathy that runs throughout his family tree. Many Ph.D.'s would not dare share this most personal and private information about themselves, let alone, their family. Thank you for posting this video.
Agree! I think I only found 3 people with psychopathy who outed themselves.
He didn't care, which proves his case.
"Total Honesty" is your ignorant perception, caused by Ignoring what they "act" like to achieve that "win" from you. I married one ... and I am no longer Ignorant .. I do not Ignore anymore, I Watch, Listen, and Confirm. They weaponize Trust.
Well hes a psychopath he doesn't get nervous or anxiety or anything like that so why would he not he doesn't have any real real feelings towards anybody else.
I've seen this guy on another programme talking on the same issue. In an interview with his family he asked "would you believe I have these traits" all his family said yes. His mother and brothers all recognised when he was young the unusual emotional reactions he had in comparison to them. When aged 15 he had openly argued at an Aunts funeral that he had a party to go to instead, not bothered by the commotion he was creating for others in favour for his own needs.
Try having siblings who are genetically predisposed to being total callous jackholes.
My grand Aunt cried and told people all about issues with me at a funeral. I said nothing. I thought it odd and off centre.
I loved that he talked about individuality. It's so VERY critical.
Haha, the irony of this comment being predictable.
@@z0uLess this is predictable as well
@@ryanthereaper5032 I think this type of communication is very limited
What’s individuality?
the whole spectrum of narcissism, psychopathy, sociopathy, etc is fuckin fascinating as hell, man
+dudepool :-)
***** I was raised by one
***** Sounds more like sociopath behavior. At least in my experience psychopaths are usually extremely intelligent since the stupid ones end up in prison. Sociopaths usually do stuff for the doing of it where as psychopaths do it for the end goal.
***** Hmm, hard to say. Psychopaths usually don't have children so that maybe another point pointing him towards sociopathy. Or maybe he is just an average man with a short temper, who knows.
***** My mom was more of a narcissistic abuser and once I figured out & confirmed what the hell was going on, I told her to kick rocks. (obviously it was way harder than I'm making it seem, just skipping some of the gory details) Best decision I ever made, though
This is fascinating. We are still learning but now have something to go by and work from there for more studies. Thanks for posting this.
If you were the golden child you were abused. We just need to expand our definition of abuse. Putting a child on the pedestal is abuse. It does damage to the child in the long run.
I would say most narcissists don’t understand how badly they were damaged by this type of abuse.
🧐 No, I think it depends on the child. In case, of this neuroscientist James Fallon, the care and attention subdued his psychopathic tendencies, which otherwise would’ve expressed very strongly. Did you see his brain map ? 😳
I have met what i think was a psychopath. He just drained the energy out of people, was very intelligent (maybe smart, cunning is a better description) and there was nothing really there in his eyes. I never really could have a true conversation with him. His motives were always calculated and ice cold, like how a robot would reason. One could argue if these psychopaths are really human beings. Since what it really means to be human, completely lacks in them. The scary thing is that they are masters in acting like they are normal, but when you have known them for a while, you will find out.
What makes them human is the neo-cortex which is how we separate man from animal. Emotions are irrelevant.
Sydebern It was more likely he was just an aspie
Sydebern Guess how many influential people are like that. They are powerful and dangerous.
You have met many psychopaths and sociopaths. Depending on your definition and where you live, psychopaths represent as much as 4% of the population. That's 1 in 25. You have probably known dozens of psychopaths.
Psychopaths aren't necessarily violent people. Some are, but honestly, there are plenty of law-abiding psychopaths out there. It's a myth that violence & criminality are cornerstone characteristics of psychopaths.
This is one of the most interesting things I've ever seen on reason tv.
I agree. For me, the most interesting part was at 7:55 … where he discusses the possibility of a link between psychopathy and libertarianism.
Very informative, James Fallon!
Thankyou for the feedback too Tanman. Glad to hear from some high functioning people.
Great video, excellent research, and has that ring of truth.
Fascinating. I'm reminded of the book 'Psychopath!' by Morton Bane or Bain - written by a diagnosed psychopath. Who would know more about the condition than a sufferer?
Fascinating!
Fascinating...
conceptional feedback, thankyou.
@thruthelookinglass That's a spectacular argument.
What a fascinating video.
Logic takes us no where, but creativity can take us anywhere.
I think that this is pretty cool stuff to hear talk about. The Brain is magnificent machine.
Fascinating
He gives me hope
@faithnotneeded If you liked them you might be happy to know they are in the studio recording a new album.
Interesting stuff!
Its not stuff 😉
nice interview. what is the music from? i think i recognise it.
Just a note: It's the "connections" of the brain, "as in behavior & intelligence" that determines a psychopath within a society (within an enviroment) It's not simply the shape of the brain This would omit a large population of psychopaths especially at corporate or administrative levels (risk & getting away with it) Example: If a person places their hand into a fire "the brain's connections are different from" a person who would not put their hand in a fire "Behavior & Intelligence" is decisive
I have watched twenty utube videos by "experts" talking about narcissists and psychopaths. Only two knew clinically how to differentiate ,by DSM, categorically between the two.Fallon is one of them.
Psychopaths are narcissists by default. Psychopaths are narcissists + other characteristics. Like impulsivity + disregard & hate rules.
the brain has a certain level of specificity (meaning that to some extent, each part of the brain is responsible for distinctive function), and the orbitofrontal cortex that is thought to be responsible for moral codes (and is dysfunctional among psychopaths) is just a very small part of the frontal lobe.
don't beat this guy in scrabble XD
I'm much like James. Very analytical, reason thru everything, 2 plus two equals 4 and always will. I'm even a libertarian as well. But my relationship with people tends to be superficial even with people I love dearly. I can be very charming and a people person when necessary even though I'd prefer not to be. I'm not violent but I could be under the right circumstances like defending myself or a family member. I had a good childhood knowing I was loved and taken care of. Fascinating videos.
"It just a kind of a quirk." - Your Honor, hes just a quirky lil' guy!
I love the study of neuro-cognition. As a musician, historian, and educator it fascinates me. But I have one problem with this area of study philosophically. It is entirely deterministic. There are people who have the three predispositions of psychopathy (genetics, loss of brain function, and who have suffered abuse) who could have easily become psychopaths, but for some reason did not, and in fact may be living moral lives. The problem with seeing all behaviour as the result of nature and nurture is that it overlooks the idea of free will. The legal system may have the right attitude when it comes to this issue. If a person is solely the result of nature and nurture, how is it moral to hold him accountable for his crime? Psychopaths are not crazy. They do have the ability to distinguish between right and wrong, even if their consciouses do not bother them. As far as I know, neuroscience has not been able to point to the area of the brain that controls free will, but that does not mean that free will does not exist. Neuroscience must make an attempt to account for the existence of free will because often free will is the determinative factor between lawful and criminal behaviour.
This is covered in studies on consciousness. It turns out, our brains are constantly making pre-conscious decisions all the time, so we don't exactly have free will.
👍 @@brittanyp.schaum9507
DETERMINISM 🆚 free will 📺 kzhead.info/sun/qaeApM98sXeCdIE/bejne.html (10 minute video | Crash Course)
"our brains are constantly making pre-conscious decisions all the time" That argument falls far short of proving free will does not exist. In fact it's very weak. Unfortunately, those scientists who desire to negate free will have a bad history of overstating their case with this argument. The absolute truth is, we do not yet have ANY IDEA how consciousness operates. Until we do, it is fantastically dishonest to make statements like yours, as if the question has been settled.
@@deanray553 👏 you're so true and I always felt that this idea of "you have no free will" must be an oversimplification. But I can't come up with any scientists who'd written or talked about it. It's just Sapolsky everywhere and no opponent. Maybe you know and could recommend somebody? or some articles?
John Wayne Gacy. I met him as a small child. It was late evening at my grandparents produce stand. My Grandma leaned over and told me, "dont let go of Grandma's hand." We are not a huggy feely family but good to each other. We rounded the corner of the building. There he was buying apples. He looked at her, then stared at me. Eyes a beautiful blue Ice cold. I still feel cold when I think of it. She squeezed my hand. I have wondered to this day is he saw us kids and my cousins playing at the farm behind us. Stalking the farm. I remember she took me into the back room and locked the door. There was no woman I knew as her and the other women of our family. She began to close up NOW and he left with some apples. Latter I would remember here at the house. She double checked all the windows and doors. Barn, informed the help to lock up after they got paid, She was outside a few times before bed. She somehow knew. She just knew. In my life I would meet 7 known killers. I suspect others. I am very very careful. You be careful also.
I just realized why Ron Swanson really has that cabin.
Oh thankyou lamb for reminding me. I later found out that creativity and imagination actually have no huge part in the frontal lobe and that it is actually the whole left side of the brain while the whole right side of the brain is logic and reasoning. That's usually why when the frontal lobe and amygdala's aren't working the brain focuses more power in the other areas I suppose resulting in usually higher functioning, but not all the time occasionally.
I believe you are quite right
When pleading insanity the question should be whether or not the person had the capability of considering the legal ramifications to their actions.
@nameofthepen In a sense, it is true. Neural pathways form according to specific activities and behaviors being learned, usually at a very young age. However if certain portions of the brain are under developed or even missing, there are limits to what or how the subject can learn. In other words, the wiring of the house may follow function, but the wiring cannot go where there is no room to begin with, so there is a significant difference in the overall design and possible functionality.
He discusses which presidents were more psychopathic here - "Dr. James Fallon Discusses the Traits of Pro-Social (good) Psychopaths." What is interesting is that the factors that made those presidents famous and loved were the traits associated with psychopathy.
@kev3d - well, I can certainly agree with the "missing" part of your statement, but wouldn't the "under-developed" portion of it simply refer back to what I said originally?
@XCritonX Brains do change in use. However the reason why childhood development is so important is that foundational mental patterns on which all other development is based are physically etched into the brain. How is such a person meant know any other way? And trying to change such foundational mental patterns could be very problematic like trying to kick a bad habit, except that habit involves just ordinary thinking & functioning.
I am such a determinist. Neuroscience just lays it out in front of you. To avoid it is just putting your head in the sand.
@Madolite I'm no longer a determinist! Haha.
@@hellomate639 why aren’t you a determinist any more? I’m genuinely interested in understanding
@@shrimptyd8059 I'm agnostic about the matter now whereas before I had more made up my mind about it. I also ended up developing a more open mind about God - or something along those lines because of the hard problem of consciousness, as well as the fact that such an amazing mystery is at the core of why our lives have the possibility of being meaningful in some sense. It's a short blurb for about 15 years of reasoning/searching, reading the great problems of analytic philosophy, but trying to understand other things as well.
👍 @Terry Hintz
@@hellomate639 , the ability to change one’s mind is a positive sign of intelligence. Good for you. If you have the time, which part of the following 10 minute video do you happen to disagree with?: DETERMINISM 🆚 free will 📺 kzhead.info/sun/qaeApM98sXeCdIE/bejne.html (10 minute video | Crash Course)
I found what I was looking for. It was on the show "Through the wormhole" and the episode was "Can we eliminate evil". Its super interesting and worth watching! Here is part 1 of episode, then you can wathc all 5 parts form there on!
Is it really desirable to do so?
03:25 ..."maybe it can help them." What's the reason for the cutaway shot to this gentleman here? 🤔
I love him but I can definitely see the narcissism in him.
Yes he's a psychopath and they have no emotions
How do you think? not saying you’re wrong, I’d just like to get more on your perspective if that’s okay?
M J get yourself checked
No you don't.
Please! Just because someone is confident doesn't mean he's a narcissist.
Once the mind is damaged, its extremely difficult to correct. I mean depression for instance can never really be cured. The symptoms can be controlled, but ask depressives whether they are cured and they'll tell you they still have bad days. However, a bad day for a psychopath might see some innocent member of the public badly injured or dead. I mean should we take that risk with serious offenders?
We now know that aldosterone also has an effect on the pre-frontal vortex and amygdala, the aldosterone having an effect on the sodium potassium pump and the electrolyte balance in those two areas. Increased levels of aldosterone explains such things as alcoholism, will, self control, brain response to sexual stimulation, addiction, sodium-potassium (electrolyte) balance, etc. as well lower levels of aldosterone in men cause such things as feminine/female response to sexual stimulation within the brain. I’m also a libertarian.
He is similar to Polish actor and satirist Janusz Rewiński who played a rich gangster Siara in popular crime comedy "Kiler" (1997) by Juliusz Machulski. :D
i will volunteer for this libertarian brain study.
I loved thie very smart video
I was told when I was seeking help for my extreme narcissistic tendencies that you will only get so far until you just can't figure out anymore. It's like the god particle you can only Trace it back so far before you have to look at each other and say at this point we just got to leave it until a higher power. This person's theory on people like us is we create a balance. If everybody in that room had good intentions and the same mentality. The world really wouldn't exist because you have to have resistance in order to get a forward motion. Who knows, hopefully when they were able to break through and really identify these things and identify why I know for a fact I was this person before trauma ever happened to me. My furthest back memories are me being this guy and then the trauma happened so it seems like it's timed out almost
A question still harbored by many, is how does a schizoid serial rapist, even multiple murderer, say, end up being overlooked - as many infamous murderers such as Gacy and Dahmer were - as ordinary men with casual charm, but not clear as to them having a type of sociopath personality/neurosis complex or what have you. If that is so, what are the neurological patterns of the people who see such monsters as normal, as opposed to those, who, offhand or not, notice an intrinsic character flaw?
Was Dr Fallon acting in a criminal minds episode called " OUTFOXED"
I would like to know how chemical dependency plays into all of this. If it promotes the actions or causes the impulsevity to be more predominant.
hi sam. Criminologist here. Alcohol in particular is a potent trigger. It shuts off the rational part of the brain-- frontal lobe, and feels good fast, so they like it. It also helps fuel their fantasies.... They have a tendency to be drug users anyway, because they are thrill seeking and impulsive already
greeniem Thank you Greeniem, I had a feeling it would play a pertinent role in actual acting out their thoughts.
Theres an actual documentary where he is in it and goes into more detail about sociopaths does anyone know what it is called?
@kamikazee55 It's interesting that all of the brain scans of psychopaths share something in common. I'm wondering if getting at deficiencies and addressing them with supplementation therapy and also working on therapies to condition them to respond with mental tools they didn't develop early in life could change a killer to a functional person with impulse control.
We are all individuals, yes!
My father is exactly like this and spent 22 years as a beloved husband and Pastor and good attentive father to me. It really depends on what traits the psychopaths express not all of them are hollywoods gross version of a violent abuser....some are motivated by things simple as the game of chess
of course i think he chose to be a pastor in order to play this system with churches, taxes, and the laws around that
Hahahaha
I think it depends on the environment they grow up in as well. If they grow up in a loving home, some of them can be very successful.
Yeah, well raised psychopaths are the most powerful human beings imo
How did you learn he was a psychopath?
what's the name of the area of the brain he mentions in about 1:20?
Interesting but why the background music?
I'd actually like to take one of these tests, where can I find a center to go and get tested?
You can get diagnosed with aspd from a psychiatrist but psychopathy gets almost always diagnosed in prison.
Is there a relation between psychopaths and work-environment?
@Libertarianist Agree. "Did you know you would go to jail if you got caught?" is the only relevant question when deciding ability to stand trial for one's actions. If someone knowingly violates the law, that is the only measure of competence that matters. So lying to investigators, hiding, running from the law, and trying not to get caught for a crime is automatically an indication of rational understanding of the consequences of one's actions and the awareness of violating of the law.
@kamikazee55 The speaker in the video did not suggest otherwise.
I'm so jelly of his book shelf...
@jnjnelson I wholeheartedly agree. In a free society, such laws would not exist.
@ trev If we define them as just having a certain brain type like the guy in the video without having to be guilty of any crimes then why would they need to be rehabilitated?
@asleeperj ....ok no I haven't read 1984 maybe i will in the future however i have read plenty within and outside of my two master degrees and my comment stands....
@77Fortran I've heard it's because the so-called warrior gene is x chromosome linked. So a woman has to get the gene from both parents, and the male has to get it from one. Also, as aliciab pointed out gender norms and cultural influences definitely have an effect.
Is it possible that a person with genetics that typically lead to a very wonderful and good person but because of an atypical environment grows up to exhibit the symptoms of a psychopath? Can ethics and morality come from another place? Be processed in a different way in the brain? What would cause a person who has no ethics or morality but is also not impulsive but instead highly deliberative?
we need to bring that back so people realize they can stop being crazy by changing their behavior instead of going "wo is me, I'm crazy, I can't help it."
This is very scary.... 'it will interesting to see what role ultimately neuro-science plays in public policy.' This will become the scourge of the 21st century.
I’d like to hear what he says about female psychopaths
@jpinkard It must be true because you said it!
bon vivant Noun: A person who enjoys a sociable and luxurious lifestyle.
Thanks!
@1dreamalways3 i was kinda joking but.. having a good understand of psychopathology would make him able to fake it if he was.. psychopaths are able to fake caring and some of them do it really well and become actors.. it's really hard to tell unless you know the person well.. his family vouching for him is probably the best sign thats he's ok
Perhaps. But why would he be doing an interview with Reason(sic).tv if that were the case?
Puxa não tem legenda em português ou espanhol
Weird and strange people tend to be more intelligent and creative than the masses.
@renegade2142 This is exactly why the proper role of government never includes preventing crime - it includes punishment of what has been done in the past, but not what might be done in the future. Examples of preventative laws: government building permits, speeding laws, mandatory government licensing, and anything else that uses government force for the intent to prevent one person from harming another. Eliminating such preventative laws is the only way to treat everyone equally.
Are you responsible for the consequences of your actions. One of sciences most controversial questions.
Another thing that keeps us on the straight and narrow, is friends, family and community. You know you don't want to bring shame on your family, you don't want your community to see you as some low-life, you don't want to embarrass your friends. But what if you despise your family, come from a shitty neighborhood, have no friends and got bullied at school - then you don't care about much really. Friends, family and community become a kind of surrogate super ego.
Didn't know Andrew from AMD tech was a neuroscientist as well
When you "reason" away conflicts you end up acting really irrational. If you look at John McCafe, who was the libertarian candidate in the election before last, he is intellectually brilliant, but also completely out of his mind.
This guy is very intelligent and he looks so nice on the surface. But I bet he's not faking it, he's fully aware of his psychopathic personality.
He’s fully aware and yet if he gets angry, which you have not seen will unleash his psychopathy and it would not be so nice. And btw he is not nice in this video. He is very aggressive, arrogant and passive aggressive in this video, you just fell for his charm, he uses his education and knowledge to gain trust and his jokes. He is not that nice to people close to him or to people that annoy him which is most people, he also is talking down to everyone
He hasn't got a psychopathic personality. He has some genetic markers that could predicate psychopath behaviour given poor nurturing or extreme circumstances. That has not occurred.
@@kariann3198 Idiotic comment
the dsm, look into it.
Dr. James Fallon suggesting that what we thought was universal (government) is actually untenable for human individuality, is unfathomably BASED.
What about CRISPR instead of prison in the future to change behaviour?
@Salamphoenix UH, prove it? Evidence? The heart in the physical sense pumps blood. The heart in the quasi-mystical sense is a product of the brain.
@gkb2010 LOL, you made me think of Mr. Spock. I wanted to say something clever but I can't think of anything.
How about the fact he literally said this at the beginning of the video?
i was actually referencing when a person's natural instincts to form tribes and cults is detrimental to their happiness and survival. i was applying it to the psychiatric profession as a whole. their is no science to back up any of their psychopharmacological claims. it's not about the patient either, it's about power over others.
It's disturbing when KZhead videos you remember watching back in the day are almost *12 years old!*
I wonder if he would believe in libertarianism if physical fitness was necessary for his livelyhood. Theres no way of knowing, of course. And another question; how do you describe a psychopaths motivations? Yes, one can point to the interaction with other people in the psychopaths life, but I am talking about the things that drives the psychopath. When you have so poor connections with the emotional areas of the brain, how does the psychopath rationalize its own motivations, will to do things and/or what things to do?
Actually one of the problems with psychopaths is they're somewhat not self aware of it.
@truvelocity The first hurdle in doing this is getting the psychopath to see their behavior as a problem.
This guy that is in this video was in the video that brought me here. The program covering this story twisted what he said and tried to say that love is unscientific(when in actuality there is a scientific understanding of it). More or less, it was undermining science and they used this guy to do it. Of course the comments on that video had been disabled. Regardless, this guy is smart and the American media proves to be manipulative, again.
This is very good I watch I feel accepted
but how big is the data set ?
he's talking like a cartoonish lol i have been obsessed with him, he said in interviews about him being "borderline"