INFINITE(인피니트) - 'Bad' M COUNTDOWN 150716 COMEBACK Stage Ep.433
2015 ж. 15 Шіл.
4 415 695 Рет қаралды
M COUNTDOWN｜Ep.433
섹시한 남자들이 되어 돌아온 ′인피니트′
여심 도둑! 상남자들의 강렬한 ′Bad′ 무대
INFINITE - Bad
World No.1 KPOP Chart Show M COUNTDOWN
Every Thur 6PM(KST) Mnet Live on Air
매주 목요일 저녁 6시 엠넷 생방송
ITS LIVE BUT ITS LIKE YOU'RE HEARING THE RECORDED VERSION OF IT HAHAHAHAHAHA OMG INFINITE!! YOU'RE ONE OF A KIND!!
WOOHYUN'S HIGH NOTES THO!!!
I love "back" when they perform live
I Still listen to this song, Infinite deserves to be appreciated 💗💗💗💗
There eating they're own CD's
Wow! It's live?!
Infinite's music is sooo original and has a distinct sound. You can easily tell if it's their song coz of that infinite-ish kind of music. You know what I mean? Like there should be a genre called Infinite. Jyeahhh..
waaaahhh...absolutely agree. New genre...
INFINITE genre is so my cup of tea.
LOL...there should be also a music chart called infinite....them as the benchmark for all the live performance. Hahahahahaha....We are narcissistic Inspirits.
yeah totally agree
wow this is an old comment, but yeah there should be a genre called infinite😂❤️
*Im so late to this fandom*
Never to late
Same i just took interest on them today :/ I feel stupid
Same. How am I only seeing this now?!
participate in streaaaming tell me mv💛💛💛💛
i'm so happy there are new fans still coming in T.T. Keep on supporting them please, they are gems
2021 to not forget this MASTERPIECE
🙌🏻
Same ;_;
same here
Yep!!!!!
@@uwusounds عمار
they're better than most groups nowadays tbh.
INFINITE are the BEST ever
Really true!
all artists are better You don't need to compare them
@@solidmusiclover9750 your right but the concept of the word 'better' means in comparison to another
@@solidmusiclover9750 if you don’t compare how do you even know what’s good in the first place?
Still listening to this in 2023! I miss the good old times when everyone sang live and the performances were still perfect!!!
They are still the gold standard. NO group, none, not EXO, not SHINee, not even my beloved ASTRO has every member that is so well-rounded. I don't think we'll see a group like this ever again where talent Trumps all else.
Until today they’re still relevant and stay top 10 group in Korea.
It's fvcking sad that they just disappeared. I really want them back. No one makes THIS EXACT kind of music nowadays :(((
@@igiveuponnaming7082 they're just hiatus
@@nuristiqomah7238 it has been years.....
@@igiveuponnaming7082 they may be hiatus as a group ( cuz some of the members were in the military) but they did release solo music and do musicals in the mean time. they are now waiting for myungsoo/L to finish his duty as 5/6 have done theirs. so, technically they didnt disappear...
@@igiveuponnaming7082 everyone has recently completed their military service except one member L, which scheduled to be discharged August next year 🙃
I found a new group to stan. My life is over.
Welcome 😁💕😂
Eunice welcome 😙😙
Eunice you have the same name as me
Mary Vergara bagus
me too
lmao the dance moves are different in 2 choruses. i'm waiting for them to mess everything up in weekly idol lol
sameeeee apparently its not all gyu this time ;')
rach zhang I just laughed far too hard 😂😂
Woohyun..he is crazy. He screamed twice! Lol
ʝєѕѕу нυαиg😠
Infinite is known for their synchronised and sharp dance moves, live vocals and their infinite charms and talents once you are an inspirit forever an inspirit becoz u cannt get over from these dorks 😍😍😍
Indian inspirit??
عمارعمارعمار عمارعمار
@@nandu1749 yes I'm
@@ragasudhanandivada8798 found one more Indian inspirit
@@nandu1749 me too found another inspirit from India
Came back here after watching L's drama 'Angel's last mission : Love' I MISS INFINITE SO MUCH 😭😭
Ya me too..
Me too😢
Me too 😕
Wow infinite vocals are no joke! :O
WOW, I already knew Infinite was amazing but WOW. Some groups, although amazing, get a bit tired when performing and it shows in their singing (which is fine, that's totally normal) but I heard no weak points at all in Infinite's vocals and the dancing was always strong. I'm just blown away by this performance.
thank you for the support :)
EXPERIENCE.
Same 😭😭 I asking my self ! why Im too late to become INSPIRIT (sorry for my grammar)
it's because they had really tough training to be able to basically always sing live and dance at the same time. I wish other groups had this good of a training, cause if infinite can do it, so can others and there wouldn't be lip synching as much or any in kpop.
@@anitaposa9164 sadly groups nowadays almost every live performance has backtrack vocal
Infinite really is the reason why I like black shoes with white sole
If you are watching this performance then you are a kpop legend
while the other group comeback with bright and colourful concept song that suit summer time, there's infinite who's comeback with a dark ass concept in the middle of summer. 😂😂😂😂 our infinite indeed different and weird from the others. but it's a good thing to be different because people will notice them more. infinite fighting!!!💪💪💪
Haha...agree and that is why we love them bec they are different from other ^^ Yaaaayyyy....Infinite slayy......fighting !
Ginko Tree They did a horror theme, which is also associated with summer in Korea. XD
I'm kinda bored with another group summer concept. Until i found this, i love them so much
even if this isn't a summer song, their comeback is HOT as hell and i wouldnt complain for that. I like it better when it's HOT hehehe
Sungkyu's voice especially in the beginning.....DAEBAK!!!!
Rocker Gyu as awesome as always!!! Like your username rocker Gyuuu!!!
In Love with Sunggyu But in this performance he is more on.......Sexy Gyu than Rocker Gyu.......kekekeeeee ....O_o
Rocker Gyu totally agree with you that he is soooo sexyyyy😍😍 But I replying your comment about his voice. So rock! ! Betting on you!!!!
In Love with Sunggyu So funny that his betting on you sounded more like.... Betty Anneyeong....Lol
Rocker Gyu wahahha. OMG this is funny
I HAVE TO FIND OUT THIS GROUP IN 2020? THANKS TO CORONA! THIS SONG IS GOLD! who is here in 2020?
I'm so mad because only know i realize L is cute
HAHA, the "vibration" of the camera on the last second is spot on. but get back to the performance.... HOw dare YA HOYA. totally slayed with that dance break!!
zhubenn didn't even notice that vibration but it was spot on xD LOL
Dongwoo and Hoya are better singers than some Vocalists in other groups. That's a fact.👊
@Yuuuzu Yuu because we have incredible main vocalist.. if they not in infinite they can be main vocalist.. stable voice when dancing hard..
By saying "unlike some vocalist" and as a huge fan I am offended cause sungyeol is a Vocalist and so is woohyun,dungwoo is the main rapper and Hoya is also one too,I love all of em!
Ur being a bias... Can u compare them w this group ?shinee vixx exo suju beast 2pm bigbang block b . And tell me who is better
Its not a fact . Lol. Better watch other groups . Dumb
Toxic check this out m.kzhead.info/sun/asmgctBwppNtaas/bejne.html
kim sunggyu the perfect man
too perfect i must say. even his armpits are so nice they are brighter than my future
from 2:44 to 2:58 => No one boygroup gen3 can sing high note while they perfomance strong dance choreography!!! NO ONE!!! I'm sure that 100% => this is not social media trending group, this is a legendary boygroup!!!
True!!!!
Very true
Wow! They have amazing vocals even while doing choreo like this! I also noticed their dancing is very synchronized. I don't really know much about infinite, but they seem pretty talented
They are very talent. All of them can sing and rap well. If you search "Diamond-Infinite" you can hear highnotes of Infinite's rapper.
They don't seem pretty talented. They ARE pretty talented, specifically live performance. No words.
they are know for their 99.9% in synch choreo and in fact, they are called as king of synchronization in korea(knews). everytime they will perform, they will be introduced as they are the best in synch dance.
Musik Fann
Marlon Park We know that there are other talented group, but please do not bring up other group on INFINITE's video
When u sadly can't pick a bias because all of them are Fucken hottt
thats me with got7
me is hoya and seongyeol
+Kiki Jung HAHAHAHAHA
OMG same here will I guess I am so freaking in love with all of them
YuriMoon me too T_T
Camping back on their previous stages since they are having a comeback at the end of the month💛🥺 Infinite is coming back... finally!!!😭😭😭
So far the only groups that truly shook me in terms of live performances are B.A.P and Infinite. They always put 110% in everything.
Thr most exciting comeback! During the 'Back' era we saw their much slower but intense and sharp choreography. But 'Bad' really showcased their real dance abilitiy. Now you know why they are called the king of dance! Lee Howon solo dance part really made my day! But I thought I saw Dongwoo did the solo dance during the pre-recording? Still, love them. YaDong are awesome dancers^^
If I'm not wrong, each member will get a chance to do the solo break dance;) for today, its hoya.
Glenda Lim Each member? ... I think they will only alternate between Hoya and Dongwoo, no? Somehow, I doubt they will let our hasmter Gyu do the dance break xD
Piou0102 thats why I'm not so sure... sorry... but according to some fans, they said that all the member will get to do it. But still not sure;)
Glenda Lim I've heard that too...the members said that on the press conference...but I am not sure if it's each member or only a few members🙈
Piou0102 I so agree with you. I love Gyu, and gosh he is my bias, but no matter how seriously he dances, I will not be able to take it seriously. I will always picture him in Weekly Idol xD
Infinite should also really be called one of the "Kings of Kpop". Seriously. They're the best (!) dancing group out there, their lives are close to total perfection, and they are the only group which never had any scandal, even after debuting 5 years ago. This stage totally profes it. EVERYTHING fits together, I got an absolute goosebump just watching this. OMG Infinite, your perfection is unbelieveable.
Sabrina H. I have the same feeling about them. Hope fon INFINITE to stay together like this for many years to come.
You know you’re an exol when you stan infinite
Sungjong looks sooooooooooo manly here 😭😍
dude, L looks so hot 😂 and sungyeol and woohyun 😍😂
Exactly
L real life anime boy
My question is how fan chants get developed in the span of comeback and live stage? Is there like a magical clan of fan chants?
Ms.Maggie through the official inspirits fan cafe :)
Myinspirit Kimotshi ah so it IS a magical clan
Ms.Maggie Lol I guess it is ^^
Myinspirit Kimotshi haha
Ms.Maggie i also always wondered how korean fans can be so organized. :D
2nd Generation will be forever iconic. Golden era. 2020 anyone?
Heree
Still watch in 2017 cause I miss Hoya.
Nova Riana same
same😢
2019??
Did Hoya leave the group?
@@namiswaaaaaan6435 yes
Dear lord, I felt my soul being sucked out!
セーラーグール / Sailor Ghoul I KNOW RIGHT, they deserve all the awards possible, omg, this was PERFECTION! ;www;
Sabrina H. when they stop promotions and end up with no awards - i might have to fly out to korea! >3< AND HURT SOMEBODY LMFAO i will go out of my way, make my own award, and give it to them xD
セーラーグール / Sailor Ghoul LMAO. hahahahahaha
I litterally was watching this when a stupid Windows 10 ad popped up in front of the screen. I was like: Windows 10 How *dare* you block my precious view??? This is why I will never upgrade.
cupcakelover meep bruh...
cupcakelover meep Bro, I do multi fandoms. .-.
cupcakelover meep I dont really know Got7 that well. But BTS is my main, and svt, and exo, and infinite... Goddamnit. Idk who my main is anymore.
cupcakelover meep o-
cupcakelover meep same tho
Their stage presence is no joke, perfect coordination and not lipsync, it’s sad to see how their company mistreated this kpop kings
INFINITE were never mistreated by woollim. they were raised like princes. the only problem with their company is that they never promoted INFINITE properly.
@@aiya2551 Wow I think this the first time I am liking your comment...hahaha....girl sometimes you can press buttons
@@tinnytimela8824 what do you mean? i always speak my mind. now if someone misunderstans or doesn't like what i say isn't my problem exactly?
I love how inspirits are so chilled out. Someone: " ____ are better." Inspirit- "Then go to them. I love infinite, you love_____"😂❤
Infinite is really the best group ever. I can't help but notice that L is more handsome than usual, I can't help but fall into his beautiful eyes, and when I see his dimples I fall even more. Dongwoo is still the same, he laughs like there is no tomorrow, but when he got scared, he is like a kid that wants to cry. I just finished watching Infinite's Ranking King, Infinite Sesame Player and Infinite Showtime for the FOURTH time. I also can't wait for L's first movie 'Mr.Sharks'. Infinite Hwaighting!
OMG !!! SAME !!!!!
+Jungkook IU You're also a fan of BTS?
K-pop_Addict 08 Yes. Im 5 years kpop fan . but Im 2years with BTS because when they debut I hate them because some of fan comparing them to EXO (That time Im EXOL) But after I watched all ARMY ROOKIE KING I already become their fan and that time I also know INFINITE but I really dont care about them :( because I really thinking that BTS are the best because they are slaying and become a very famous idol even they came from small company . and its the same as INFINITE but diffirent style of dancing. so I stan both by different way :)
+Jungkook IU Cool..
PERFECTION !!!
Love KyuZi 89 Hii so long no talking to you :3 Sungkyu just killed me with his sexy dance T^T
Myinspirit Kimotshi Oooh...hello dear long time no see how are you and where are been all this time everyday Im check comment section infinite mv but can't see you ?! Yeah whose know our dumb and lazy grandpa could dance like this kkkk.....LOL i love sexy Kyu ^^
I've been keeping track through my phone with different account ^^ don't worry I'm always there to support our boys
Myinspirit Kimotshi Haha....indeed he's our perfect leader ^^ Im already watched between me & u as expected just so perfect and love even more with our Kyu's voice ^_^ Actually i was worry when Woollim said infinite would cb with experiment song but daaang the song are so good and cathy also this style really suit the boys well and the whole album are gold :))
Love KyuZi 89 Exactly!! I think they can poll out any concept and you know why? because they have an amazing vocals that can slay any song thrown at them
Today is International Dance Day, let's salute the Kings of Synchronisation
Seriously I am only living for woohyun's high notes!!😍😍😘😘😘😘💓
More talented than other boy group dance-based out there
true HAHA
I don't refute your statement. LOL
you're absolutely right..
Ur 100% right
Jimboy Cariaga All have equality But I respect ur opinion
The problem in Infinite is, they are all your bias and they are all you bias wreckers😂💞 Deal with it❤️ 박 서 성🐣💞
vongole pasta one dish agreeeeeee
So true, I think about one then another one smiles or sings or dances then suddenly I got a new bias 😂
Still can't believe how powerful this song is 🤩🤩
Miss infinite so much! Omg, infinite's live vocals is amazing!!😭💕
Hi guys. I'm a newbie. Please accept me in your fandom INSPIRITS. I really stan Infinite now. :) :)
+Miyel Do welcome and enjoy your stay. let's support them to the fullest!^^
+Miyel Do Hi there exo-l. I'm a new Inspirit as well ^_^ welcome .
Welcome to this amazing fandom😆
Suzy Bae Thank you :)
+Miyel Do Anneyeong!!!! ^^
how can the live version sound even better than the cd version o.O only infinite can do this!!!!
와 진김 개추억 저때 인피니트 좋아했었는데ㅠㅠ
It's 2023 already and still listening this for years.
They switched cameras too much that I feel dizzy =.=
Yul Nguyen It's still much better than their Melon Showcase, where you literally couldn't see anything >
Piou0102 omg hahaha i agree.. its not bad comparing to tht MelOn showcase..
Infinite never fail to impress us when they perform. *clap *clap with standing ovation then hands down.
This standard of kpop boy group was perfect deserve to stan they are so worth it to stan plss wake up this is the perfect talent... this is the talent king of sychronization one and only INFINITE.
It's already 2019 but this still the best INFINITE ERA! Not to mention, this live alone is one of the best live performance out there.
See, Infinite is often better when they have live perform than their MV. I really love when they are singing and dancing. Even, they almost never do lipsycn. Infinite, figthing!!!
Guys I have decided. I am officially a part of Inspirit starting from this moment on and forever, because of "Exciting India" and that Sunggyu....I have found my Bias. Thank you Infinite for creating this song and finding me. Fighting!!!
Mae Belle Chaerin Welcome to the fandom ^^ I'm Sungkyu biased as well :) watch their variety shows you'll love them even more.. if you want watch: Sesame player, Ranking King, This is INFINITE and weekly idol ^^
I love Dongwoo's hairstyle for this performance, fits him perfectly
Just became an inspirit and still can't believe that they're doing live singing until Woohyun's highnotes that somewhat turned to scream. Eargasm tho.
Mikka Cielo Amado INFINITE never ever lipsync even they use live band for they concert...
Lvr인피니트 and that my friend is an enchanting fact I have to believe now. They're really amazing. Can't believe I just recently stan them and when I say recently that's 3 weeks ago 😭😭😭 Why o why???! Huhuhu
Mikka Cielo Amado is never late 4 member real actor alot drama if you like drama to try watch woohyun &sungyeol actor drama high school love on sure MAKE you Cray...
0:34. Damn you boys. Infinite is one group I would never be embarrassed to be caught in public watching.. Or even worshiping. Even if it's videos of them being idiots.
And Hoya's 'elephant-li school' right after. xD If I were to be caught red-handed worshipping a group, it would definitely be Infinite. Although DB5K was the one that brought me into K-pop an I only found Infinite after 4 years and a couple of groups, I like other groups too, but they just don't give me the feels and embarrassment Infinite does. No, I am not streaming at the moment. I'm currently working, but their MV is in my work playlist, so it plays at least once a day. I agree. These boys need more acknowledgement. They are really amazing.
I know you are very enjoy and highly regarded this song and group, i do. Don't worship human, we only have to worship and obeying Lord God. don't put human as your idol. don't idolize your favorite artist, don't make your favorite artist sin for you or become sin in your life, that can lead to your artist perish in hell because stealing god's glory. I love Infinite... i just want the best, that's why don't worship them just watching and enjoy thieir high quality and hardwok and dedication of INFINITE (music style, song, live performance, dance ), all good music/things comes from God and thanks for him so that he gave us Infinite. doing the best to support them, because we all human that need each other.
if this song never gets N1 , iam leaving the planet !!! >_>
ZOZ o I'll leave with you XD
Myinspirit Kimotshi me too. And remember to bring along our 7 boys here kkk.
ZOZ o do not forget to take me with you too.....
Lets board the spaceship to INSPIRIT world and never returns! XD
DinoNamstarL Inspirit! Yeah! I'm with you all
2020 show me your hand 🖐
Here you can see...... Never Dying Legend
I AM SCreaMING MY BBYS IM ACTUALLY CRYING HOYA IS MESSING ME UP I LITERALLY AM LOSING THE ABILITY TO BREATHE
They dance like they're in a dance competition... Not to mention they're even singing live!!!
Most synchronized kpop group INFINITE😊
the only synchronized group
전주 들을 때마다 심장 뛴다
250 people don't know what real talent is
Flower Myungsoo That's true
They're 456 now... Sadly the world is getting dumber
??
@@ninapetermann6310 we're talking about the people who disliked the video
Now 552
HOLY PETUNIAS SUNGYEOL YOU SEXY SHIT!!!!!!!!! THAT CLOSE UP WITH HIS CURLY HAIR IN HIS FACE AND THE SWEAT!!!! HOLY SHIT IM DEAD ASF!
omooo... hoya just make me forget my crush!!
Agreed!!
I came here after so long again to watch this cuz I saw some girls performing bad in pd48 i think.. and well lemme say.. infinite is ‘THAT’ group.. they’re the best boy dancer boy group... fight me on this.
Thanushika Karunaratne has like my name thank YOU AND weelcome 👌💜
while watching this my mind say WOOOO THE KING OF THE DANCE IS BACCK.😍😍😍😍💓💓💓💓💓💓
Dude in the full white shirt? I need a bame people! Lol
0:31..... Lee Sung Yeol
You should watch his drama 'High School Love On" he isn't the lead but Woohyun is and Sungyeol's the second male lead (idk the proper name xD) Woohyun is also in Infinite. He's the one who does the high note. 10/10 recommend their drama ;)
Thanks guys! :)
Judith McGlashan Lee Sungyeol, my ultimate bias :)
Judith McGlashan Lee Sungyeol! he shines... right?! :-)
Came here as a new inspirit and I’m shook at how much L’s voice has improved. He can be proud of himself, like damn, he worked hard to be more than just a visual!
Yes he improve so muchh
Still stuck in the golden kpop era
Infinite . I never see any group like them . they never use lips sync
What I don't like about this comeback stage is the lack of Dongwoo Arms. What I like is everything else.
akiheavenly6 Yeah! Where is Dino's arms....XD
Well, dongwoo already show us his abs during the acoustic preview!! Hiks!≧﹏≦ i wish he will get fitted clothes too~ 😍
I demand fitted shirts for our boys next perf...XD
Rocker Gyu yassssss! Infinite stylist noona! Please read this! WE DEMAND FITTED OUTFIT FOR OUR BOYS! thanks~😆
akiheavenly6 I want them to wear their net outfits again and reveal their muscles lmao. thirsty inspirit here.
2020 who always listen this song
how can someone wear just a plain black singlet look this good??????
that song is soo popular at my school everyone loves it!!! if they do a concert here in brisbane all the girls from my school will be there for sure!!!😉😉😉
Everyone is gushing about L or Hoya. But dang, Sungjong is all I see!
Faith Manalo me too!
New fan here. Wowwww these guys are really good live!! Insane dancing and amazing vocals. Not to mention so much hotness!
SweetTooth472 welcome to the group
We cannot compare infinite with other groups even with BTS, their works are so special, is anyone here from 2019?
What is bts? These vocal kings are unbeatable no matter how overrated a group is 😤 INFINITE are legends 💛
very true actually for me infinite is 10000000x times better than bts no offence it is my point of view
@@aiya2551 ikr they are perfect in every way dance vocals visual
@@aiya2551 bruh get out of the fandom you clown and bts are fine as usual you ugly clown
OMG OMG they were so HOT I can't T^T Sungkyu don't do this to my poor heart
Myinspirit Kimotshi I dunno what to say,,,,,,our Sungkyu is smokin' hot......ottoke!!!
I know TT_TT watch his focus video on Mpd channel seriously HOT!!
Myinspirit Kimotshi Sungkyu's hotness is no joke....he touches my innermost fiber haha!!!!!
Lol XD omg girl same for me XD
Myinspirit Kimotshi LOL..it rhymed!
I don't think I have to comment anything on this. They're in sync as always. I've been watching them for few years but never call myself as an Inspirit. But now, they just dragged me in with this comeback xD
Being a part of inspirit is awesome too.. hehehhehe.. but i haven't watch this yet.. 😭
sakieyra atkh it is!! Inspirit is such a nice fandom hehe :D you must watch this eonni. 😍
infinite is better good than other kpop group
Coming back here in 2022
I miss u so much Infinite please comeback....soon!!
They already did hahaha
When.?
+roxx yy last Sept 19. check out their title track 'the eye' 😊
It's so hard to choose a bias for this group, I GIVE UP. I LOVE YOU ALL EQUALLY. But Sungyeol always on top HAHAHAHAHHA
zyrenenicole ahaha yes i keep spazzing at different member every video i watch,,
like how is this possible!!! it's too much
Ya'll stan infinite..you won't regret it
Who is here in 2021?
HOYAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAA
AM SONE2 AAAAAAAAAAAAHHHHHHHHHHH!!!!!!
member that left
I miss you Hoya 😭😭😭😭😭
Although my bias isn't Dongwoo, I have to say his rap skill are really really good.
INFINITE Comeback Please !
They announced a comeback :)
Dong woo's style was amazing
IS NO ONE GOING TO TALK ABOUT THE WALKING IN SLOW MOTION! like seriously my favorite part. DAMN WOOHYUN stop staring into my soul 0:50
Inner Circle is here to support. Wow .. This kind of style suits Infinite 👍 i love the choreography and the song is so chatchy 👍
SJ Kay thank you ^^
Incle too. Ain't INFINITE so awesome?? While our boys are still in the dungeon, I've got my attention on this group, I ever watch the dramas the members are casted LOL today I watched Weekly Idol with Sunggyu as guest he's like unintentionally funny everything he does is cute yet fun to watch👌👌👌
SJ Kay thank you dear ^^ i appreciate your comment and support
KangNag WINEO omona thank you chinggu :)
after saw "The Eye" I realized they're actually made a comeback stage on MCountdown. and they slay!!!!
Before i become an army, i listen infinite song the most, i follow their journey even i have a crush on L ☺️ their dance are in sync, their voice are superb and they all are super talented. I wish they can stay longer, why talented group always disbanded early 😩
@@runila9132 really i thought they r since Hoya r not in the group anymore