How the Languages We Speak Shape the Ways We Think
2024 ж. 22 Мам.
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(Visit: seminars.uctv.tv/) Do speakers of different languages think differently? Does learning new languages change the way you think? Do bilinguals think differently when speaking different languages? Does language shape our thinking only when we're speaking or does it shape our attentional and cognitive patterns more broadly? In this talk, I will describe several lines of research looking at cross-linguistic differences in thought. The studies investigate how languages help construct our representations of the world at many stages. Series: "Exploring the Basis of Human Knowledge and Creativity" [Show ID: 27916]
My wife and I converse in our native language and fight in English so that we don't feel hurt if and when we become angry and say bad words.
You just convinced me to never marry someone who speaks my language. Being able to fight hard and not get hurt is a huge advantage in a marriage.
@@canchero724 absolutely
Wow. This woman is truly a wonderful speaker.
I heard her voice on a documentary on Netflix and it was so entrancing that I looked this up. I love the way she talks. Interesting stuff too.
+Christian Smith what documentary? I was just thinking about how I liked her voice
+Emanuelly Karla Santana It was the show "Brain Games" episode 1. You can see it on Netflix. Really interesting stuff. Especially liked her part which is about halfway through the episode.
The different qualities of the teacher's voice/speech has an important impact on learning. Interesting.
Christian Smith wha is her name ? Do you know her?
I agree. Her voice is soothing like ASMR
Very interesting topic - I remember reading somewhere that there's a tribe in Central Asia (I think in Afghanistan) where people don't count or know their ages. When people were asked they simply replied something like "young" or "old" and when asked to be specific they couldn't- their culture didn't measure time in a linear way like English speakers do. In my culture (Maori from New Zealand) we use the word 'mua' for the past and 'muri' for the future - mua means in front and muri means behind, so it's in reverse to the English view of past and present.
Do you prefer to travel facing backwards in a bus?
If the past is in front of you and you walk toward it, do you get younger? Does New Zealand become Old Zealand?
Very interesting 👍
kiaora. Interesting. When i was in the amazon, which by the way people address themselves as being people of the Napo river, they have no word for yesterday and tomorrow, they have a word for before which i suppose is vaguely hours ago. Anyways, all these languages and so little time!!
That's interesting- it makes sense to me in this way: rather than orienting in space, like going toward the future, looking forward, moving ahead to it the Maori version is sort of visual, the past in front of me, well I can see it, I'm aware of it, so mua in front and I cannot see the future, unknown, it's not in my direct line of vision so it's muri, behind me.
What a fascinating person she would be to have conversations with; so smart and insightful.
Actually, we think of time as going from left to right in Arabic, because although written words go from right to left, time is written the same in Arabic as it is in English; from left to write.
What do you mean? Can you elaborate and perhaps give an example please.
I think they mean that Arabic speakers think of time as linear. For example, they would draw a number line the same way we do in English speaking countries.
I’m trilingual, Spanish, English and French. I couldn’t agree more with her !!!!
As a trilingual person married to a bilingual, I can tell that when you speak another language you almost literally become different person. Sometimes when I help my wife to translate a sentence or a piece of text from Finnish into English , I struggle and she gets confused, because often it's just an impossible task. The way you think is so foreign compared to English, that I often have to explain "Well we wouldn't say this is the way.. a Finnish person would say that..". This was a very striking lecture from Prof. Eugene Valberg on African language and mindset. kzhead.info/sun/iqWofsyZmqGgoIU/bejne.html Furthermore perhaps the several millennium of Chinese picto/idiographic writing system and the highly abstract language are responsible why many East-Asian peoples are consistently topping the IQ tests. They are forced to develop their memory through their language and writing system. Obviously not the only reason, but could be a contributing factor.
Among East-Asian countries, only Chinese language is logo-graphic.
Does your language affect how you think? Depends on how you define "think". If you mean that speaking a certain language can give you some special power of logic or help you to know something that you could not know otherwise, then no. But if you mean the way you approach a problem, then yes, language can make a big difference. What makes a bigger difference is understanding that language is not the stuff of reality. Language is simply a toolkit we use to organize reality. Each language is just one toolkit of out of many possible toolkits. The important thing is knowing how to get the best out of yours.
6:38 the number thing is really interesting. I speak a language called Pohnpeian and in that language they count things in different ways depending on what they are. So people are counted one way, long things (canoes, trees, etc) are counted another way, leaves another, bundled things another, and several others. I only ever learned three ways of counting though.
Can you give an example??
@@getcrafty8251 Yes. The language is Pohnpeian. To count round things (and the general coming system) 1-5 are ehu, riahu, silu, pahiu, limau. (My spelling might be off) But, for people it's emen, riamen, silmen, paihmen, lumen For long things (canoes, boats, cars, trees, boards) it's oapwoat, riapwoat, silapwoat, paipwoat, limpwoat.
@@scottshanahan3827 that is sooo awesome. Thank you for elaborating!
That was intriguing.
It is worth noting that at 6:49 in the video she makes a gesture with her arms to indicate the room they are in, which does contradict the statement she made at the outset about only using words and not images.
I'm Chinese from Shanghai, when I went to Beijing for college I was constantly amazed by the way locals point me the directions in the streets: "xxx is about 500 meters south from here." What??? Funny that the more they explained the more confused I got. Back in my hometown we only left and right, I had no clue where was south whatsoever 😝😝😝
It is for sure tinking ans speaking in a mutual effection process. The result here is difference between BJ and SH to direct people on the roads. The reasons are not relying on one. Language is not the only logic to get to this result. It if hard to define how much language could affect way of thinking.
The thing about gender is interesting, and one of the absolutes you're taught is that grammatical gender in inanimate objects has nothing to do with biological sex. Prof. Boroditsky's probably referring to a study comparing how German- and Spanish-speakers perceived photographs of various objects: when shown a photo of a nice-looking bridge (fem. _die Brücke_ or masc. _el puente_), Germans tended to describe it as "sleek" or "elegant," while Spaniards called it "strong" or "firm." When the objects were grammatically masculine in German and feminine in Spanish, the tendancy was reversed.
In contrast, Dutch doesn't have actual genders in their language. The articles preceding nouns are het, de, een
Thank you
Currently writing up a study on the differences in personality evident between languages- this lecture has proved incredibly useful so thank you!
This sounds very interesting.
I would love to hear more about it when you're done!
This is NOT a convincing evidence.
Thank you✨ i wish see you or to be in your conference in Africa or Tunisia🙂🌹
Might be nice to have Lera Boroditsky's name in the title of the video, or at the very least in the description...
it is of interest to note that that the World is created to support speech. From atmospheric pressure to carry sound waves, to the sophisticated anatomy of the organs of speech in humans. Lera Boroditsky reminds us of the fact that humans can exchange thoughts and ideas by creating sound waves in the ether !
Thank you so much, I am trilingual, and this explains why I feel like a completely different person when I switch, and in my internal monologues, all three languages are intertwined. Is there a place where I can learn more about this? Thank you! :D
Alfredo Saavedra I've got a question: do you play a musical instrument? Is it the same kind of difference as between playing two different pieces? Maybe like playing pieces by two different composers? Or if you don't happen to have enough time for it, maybe the difference is like the difference between listening to pieces by two different composers? Or is it more pronounced? Thank you for answer!
***** I guess, for me is more like different music genres: English is more like Jazz and French is more like Rap, for example. For me it was hard, because of these differences I struggled finding my own identity.
Thank you for your answer! I'm sure that with God's help you will find your identity!
Alfredo Saavedra quite an interesting comparison. What other languages do you speak daily?
Only those three, but the thing is: Interacting with languages dynamically throughout the day adds a lot to your life and perception of the world around you. For example, I used to love bike to school, and listen to podcasts in English, then go to school in French, and at the break, have to talk to read my parent's email in Spanish.
If you want to be pilot or ship captain, you need to learn cardinal directions and think in them! And also those weird words such as port and starboard and aft... I think nautical/aviation English kind of is language that uses these cardinal directions a lot.
A splendid lecture that can anchor these notions floating around after Arrival.
I adore this video...she's very clear and prepared...
Interesting!
Does anyone has the link of the study document?
Fascinating.
Tribal people in a jungle usually know where they are in relation to their local geography as opposed to urban people visiting a new city and sitting in an auditorium. And by the way the tribes in the Amazon don't know north and south, they just know what side of a particular river or geographical feature they're on. If you speak English in America and sail a boat you use the terms port and starboard on your boat instead of left and right. Most speakers of romantic languages today realize that gendered nouns are archaic and arbitrary. It's all based on cultural and environmental needs and discussed ad nauseam in the linguistics department of any university.
I live in Bali where people speak in directionals rather than "left" or "right." The other day my Balinese friend said to me in English: "The light switch is the third on your West." To me, it was the third to my left! Thank you for a most interesting video.
Better orient houses with respect to the North or a cardinal point.
Every culture has its own nuances for which only transliteration might bring up that feeling and concept. One favorite for me is Dutch gezellig and unless you grew up Dutch it's really not translateable with only 2 or 3 words
Didn't Witgenstein say something like "My communicated world is framed within the extent of my vocabulary"?
That directional thing frustrated me when I lived in Canada. I'd google directions for someplace and it'd tell me to get off the train at such-and-such station, walk two blocks south, then one block east. I'm standing at the station with absolutely no idea which way to go and subsequently missed my appointments a few times.
Dude the sun is a constant of every day, pay attention.
@Frank Dayton some of us have more important things to pay attention to than where the sun is every day but thanks for the advice
Yeah, I'm here because of the Arrival movie
Does language influences thinking or its other way
How the OS we use shapes the way we use the Internet. ... ? Or else how our Internet preferences determine our choice of the OS.
Yes I understand the language is changing. Tuning to strive changing the goodway compatible and right direction. not like taboo. swear and slang word.
arrival movie bring me here
why?
Zpawnbax me too 👍
Zpawnbax I know.. one of the best movies I've ever seen
Me too !
Same here. Mediocre movie.
What about prelingual babies. Do they think differently from post-lingual babies?
Nice lecture. Language is not instinctive/not inherited, it is acquired and culturally transmitted, conditioned by geography.
I can speak English but my accent is not 'English' because I did not learn English till the age of six. Some people, like Lera ,who is Russian and started life speaking Russian was not only able to speak English but to speak it beautifully without the classical accent of a Russian speaking English ( like the way Sergei Lavrov Russia's Foreign Minister speaks English).
As many commenters suggest below there is much reason to be suspicious of what she says. Some good discussions of why the language we speak does _not_ affect the way we think in any significant way (aka "the Whorf hypothesis" or "Linguistic Relativity") can be found in: -- "The Language Hoax" by John McWhorter -- The relevant sections in "The Language Instinct" by Steven Pinker. -- for a more detailed discussion see "Language Diversity and Thought" by John Lucy.
Great reading tips, thanks!
Yes. I agree.
@@tergre54 John McWhore is a scam
Languages don't magically work... They work because every voice has a specified meaning that has been learnt by us after birth and we relate each part of what is being spoken to what we know and make an idea out of the set of different words (voice) made in a certain order
Hm now reading all these opinions on relativism/determinism/Sapir-Whorf hypothesis etc. etc. In Yoruba, e.g., there's no word for fridge because there were no fridges before imports. So it goes another way too...language being one way we describe the world, yes, but also the world (or one's area of it) determining which words we use I wonder why there is no word for 'awkward' in Spanish (in the "this is awkward" sense). I must say my Spanish friends never mention feeling it. Do they never feel it because the word doesn't exist or do they feel it but have no way to describe it so it kinda fades away...or.. The North East South West example, e.g..... Is it that nomadic people require a better sense of orientation. Or perhaps it's easier to orient if you stay in one place? What factors determine how we describe the world?!?
The thing with the south west etc example is that its not just about the spatial orientation or the way they see the time flowing ( the time part is p pointless imo ) but also about how those people see themselfes compared to us: we see the world around us, point mostly left and right from us, while those people see the world as a whole and see themselfes more like a part in it instead of the centre of it
From what i can understand there is no direct cause-effect relation between language and that type of spatial orientation.Till this day such arguments are part of general speculation...nothing certain. Big scale quantum effects might be a more plausible explanation (as seems to be for other animals) p.s.human usage of time is strictly metaphoric(mind-dependent) while spatial orientation is in some way physics and biology dependent.
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ROFL LMAOO this video is so damn funny it went down scrumptiously
6:57 How is it not the other way around? I don't think speakers of a language without exact numbers wouldn't be able to do engineering, I think for some reason their lifestyle doesn't require them counting or building buildings and THAT'S WHY their language doesn't have numbers. In other words, their lifestyle shapes their lang not the other way around.
+Laya A I guess it's both ... your language shapes your lifestyle and your lifestyle shapes your language. Meaning they don't have a certain number system because their lifestyle doesn't require it, and as a consequence their lifestyle has to be in a way that they don't need an exact number system. On a simplier level: My native language is German (even though my English is just at about the same level). English requires you to know very specific facts concerning time while you're talking (like does it still go on, is it entirely in the past, if it's in the future, then is it very likely to happen or just some weird prediction). German is by far not that precise concerning that matter. We have to past forms, one of them is exclusively used in books. So maybe when you would start learning and speaking German you might get curious about the time. You might ask more questions concerning that topic, than a native speaker would do. You might wonder how people can say things the way they say them, how they can make it through their day without all that information that your language provides naturally. Well, we don't need it. Maybe our ancestors just were less obsessed with time ... I don't know. But something made them thinking that the fact that someone is learning a language at the moment is enough information and not care about how long they've been learning that language (in German you use present for actions that would be present perfect in English). And now I don't ask about these things because my language doesn't provide them naturally. That's just like how Germans would connect hate with men, while French would rather call that a female attribute and Englishmen would just stand there wondering what is going on. The language shapes the lifestyle because at some point the lifestyle shaped the language.
+Graup Very well said Graup. I agree it's pretty difficult to tell the cause from the effect here, as they both shape one another simultaneously. I like the example you used.
+Graup We could make the observation that cultures that travel a great deal will need to have a better grasp of time than societies that don't. You might even suggest that because one is continually moving things rarely become 'complete' - so you don't have the concept of 'aspect' as found in the Slavic languages - you do need to closely define time instead. Language adapts to suit our needs. If you live a dynamic enviroment, one in which is difficult to measure time and position the language will have to adapt to that. Essentially she has got it the wrong way round. Our location in time and space defines how we think about time and space, and that in turn forms language in a particular way. As I said, move the users of these strange languages to a place where they have difficulty measuring time and orientation and then see how they get on.
In plenty of cases, words are not invented even when they would be useful. Why else would English not distinguish justice from justice, since from since, only from only? Why no word for stubborn/pigheaded when it's a good thing? Why so selfish and greedy that there's no equivalent for Dutch "gunnen" or German "gönnen"? Why is there no word for what when exxaggerated becomes meticulous/painstaking?
You're exactly right of course. I am a native English speaker living in Vermont. The reason I and the members of my family aren't very good at say, bare-handed hunting of gazelles has nothing to do with the fact that the language we grew up speaking has no words for how to go about such hunting. ;-)
Who is she btw? Very eloquent lady.
Hi Lera. The birds don't have the magnetic peaks. There's nerve system is sensitive to the Earth magnetic pole.
Thought shapes the way we talk
I'm fluent in German, English ..........I'm in my mid 40s and just recently began to think & see in a completely different light ( sense ) ...... It's hard to describe .....Vivid perhaps !? I look at things " differently"... I'm suddenly " hyper aware " of......everything !? .....I analyses everything differently ........I see things in letters !?
My sense of smell & taste have changed as well........it's more ( dense ) !
+DucatiQueen I respect your bilingual abilities, but, judging by your post, I think "fluent in English" might be a bit of an overstatement. It's difficult to read it.
+SnakeCityCages I had no problem reading it, I seen fluent English-only speakers write FAR worse on a daily basis lol
+DucatiQueen you need to take it easy on them pills
According to Chomsky those are just superficial differences. Language, he claims, is indeed part of what creates what we call human thought, but in contrast to this analysis is universal and biologically inherent to all humans. As the speaker said her self, the notion of navigation exists in all languages. Only the details seem to change according to the material reality of each population. The fundamental base though is the same and is what shapes thought.
Her claim of those language speakers using cardinal directions to refer to each other's limbs is so outlandish. If these speakers were free-floating in space, would they now be unable to refer to their limbs? Furthermore, if they really were referring to each other's limbs in terms of cardinal directions, then to accurately refer to their limbs they'd have to be in eternal alignment with earth's cardinal directions. It's a stupid way to design a language which refers to your limbs in terms of cardinal directions. It's just a huge cognitive load on us. It's a huge computation for us to refer to our limbs in terms of a continuous spectrum of cardinal directions + limb orientations.
This concept of an apparent universe for every language and jargon, corresponds with the idea of parallel existence in a multiverse, in the same context as a Cosmological "Object" has a unifying connection.
if i had a twin who was raised in another language, would he sing the same, better or worse than me? does language shape our vocal cords in a way that makes singing easier or harder?
If I call my north-east leg a north-west leg - it is NOT a linguistical mistake! It's a mistake in the content of the message, which has nothing to do with the language itself.
It's not a mistake but a way of communication
1:17 because only a troubled mind would think of such a thing.
ISn't it the way around? As we think in terms of compass points, we use North..Instead of right n left!!! I rather view the impact on cognitive schemata (subconscious) that shape our behaviour and our personality /Rogers..How does it sound?
Paychiatrists tried teaching patents a second language and found they could talk about things they could not in english
i think by now we could say that that is out of the question - it looks to me kind of obvious -
Who came with the information/speech first? ideas.ted.com/5-examples-of-how-the-languages-we-speak-can-affect-the-way-we-think/
Linguistic relativity and determinism are not new concepts. You could say, however, that Edward Sapir and Benjamin Whorf were the first scientists to articulate this hypothesis in the fields of ethnolinguistics and sociolinguistics.
Sapir-Whorf hypothesis,whom I'd never heard of before today! I kind of knew it existed but never knew there was a science to it,someone who could it explain it better,than my muddled idea's/feelings. The dimension of dreams & spirituality,that comes before words & sentences, . . . precognitives! An innate understanding that pre-exists ~ Thank you.
She had a TED Talk and her introduction is like Ctrl C + Ctrl V hahahahahaja
yea it was like watching a comedian go with the same joke to intro...it got weird cuz I wanted to laugh for her, but I didn't then I thought about it...and yea..
crazy question to ask but, is it possible for me to use this video as a Source, and how do I set it up? Im writing about this subjekt. If Anybody can help me, comment under , thanks!
+Raw Powerlifting Strength I found information at apa.org for referencing youtubes
i think the opposite is true. the ideas, interesting, environment, deep thoughts in subconcoius shape the language we speak. if you are rational then you will speak rational, if you are irrational then you will speak irrational. the language is interpretation for what your mind wants to deliver.
Royal Me Your thoughts shape your language and in turn, your language shapes your thoughts. People who speak two different but very similar languages like Spanish and Italian, Urdu and Punjabi, Portuguese and Spanish, do not perceive things differently because their respective cultures are very similar. But if you learn a language that belongs to a very different culture than yours, your thought process will be altered to some degree.
7
is language even needed? i guess if you think we are here to do something, or if you think it makes things more interesting.
Thousands and thousands ? So...(Reprodução/Alimentação/Raciocínio)
Upon the arrival i listened and gathered much
Hey! She stole my idea about ovulating zebras riding on the backs of rhinoceroses while solving differential equations!
I think the title "How the way we think shapes our languages" may be more precise. While watching the video I didn't have any trouble pointing at South-East because I was at home. In my neighbourhood I always know where the north is. Probably these tribesmen always know the absolute directions because they never travel far, unlike "the distinguished professors". The idea that grammatical gender influences our perceptions is interesting and strange. In Old English the word "woman" was grammatically male - does it mean that they had a feminist society? As far I understand grammatical gender is there only to divide nouns in groups for conjugation. If it makes me perceive a pen as female and the French perceive it as male, I may start envying people speaking the languages like English or Japanese without genders for inanimate nouns.
+Вася Бубликов I think that it's both. The way we think shapes the way we speak. But the way our ancestors thought shaped their way of speaking and we learned our language(s) from our parents. So now we speak languages that reflect the way former generations thought, which automatically also has impact on our way of thinking. And members of these tribes whose languages just don't provide them with things like left and right are maybe also more likely to remember where north is, because they need it for talking.
+Graup I didn't mean that our language didn't influence our thinking- that is a very complex subject. I just wanted to say that the example with directions was bad. I've just learnt that the Japanese use different words for cold than they speak about temperature (It's cold outside) and touch (I drink cold water). I think It's a common mistake to think that our perception of cold and hot is determined by the temperature - the cheese on a pizza is hotter than the crust, that's why it's easier to burn your tongue with it, isn't it. I wonder whether the Japanese people are born with the idea of thermoconductivity.
Вася Бубликов Yeah, well that's true ... the example really isn't the best, but I think it's the most common, as I've heard it several times before ...
+Graup - I have a question, do you know what is the meaning of the word [sun] or [south] and so on, because if you don't then it is hard to state that language shape the way we think if we do not know the real meaning or tought behind a word.
Georges Beauvi I don't quite think I got the point the way you just wanted to make ... Mind explaining it to me once again?
It seems strange to suggest that not having words for numbers would mean people couldn't keep track of numbers. Apes don't have "words" for numbers but in tests for pattern recognition many of them out perform humans. edit: perhaps that's why they are better at pattern recognition.
There's OBVIOUSLY an upper limit, quit the nonsense.
I think the languages are same except the first people who called things and ideas are different. These callings by first speakers of any language were freezed and remained unchanged for next generations. The next generations have no chose to see things and ideas other than first speakers of that language because language treated as a holy treasures at any different human cultures. For example Sun flower in Farsi is a flower which sun turned it but in Turkish is a flower looking at sun and in English just flower of sun. This trend continued for coming generations and remains freezed and unchanged. Language reflects the science development of its speakers. Many languages did not have a word for ziro. because this idea is not recognized for speakers of those language but when society needs to survive and develop that society needs to invent ziro. In Arabic is cipher means ziro. Cipher and decipher shows that for English spoken people it was not any word for that. . So it shows that English speakers did not have a word for that and it looked secret to them. This is only reflection of science among these people. Different level of scientific abilities among people causes different understanding to the world and ideas.
the 'p' doesn't exist in Arabic
***** yes I know that I was speaking to James not you
The sad part of this is that the ovulating zebra was completely off-base thinking calculus would be an aphrodisiac for the rhinoceros, when in fact, it bored him rendering him impotent; so her ride was just a waste of time, and she had to spend ten thousand dollars for IVF with rhino sperm during subsequent ovulation cycles. And there was a lot of trauma when she finally birthed the zebra/rhino hybrid, due to the sharp horn; she regretted this whole plan. Moral of the story: solving differential equations does not make you smart.
How is the ability to "stay oriented" (=knowing which way north, south, east, west is) any different from the ability of doing sums in your head? In case of the former, repeated use of these expressions makes the language community much more proficient at making the distinction; in case of the latter, you could be a community of traders that don't use calculators making you faster at arithmetic. Isn't this just learnability and not language ? Also, why are surface manifestations of how we think about time (future=forward, past=behind or visa-versa etc) "big" differences? What is the basis of describing a difference in human languages as "big" or "small"? The speaker describes "deep" differences, but she never explains what "big" means. Are the two interchangeable? Also, according to this talk, "deep" differences are "deep" because having that category (e.g. numbers) "opens the door to a whole lot of transformative cognitive abilities". But does this then imply that language groups that do not have these categories are cognitively diminished compared to language groups that have these categories? And if so, then isn't this line of thinking dangerous?
Ahh, I see. Would it be correct to assume that language as you expressed it is a collection of words and ways to combine them that exist as a shared social/cultural artifact (=comes from experience) and not a genetic endowment (different from other cognitive abilities including learning)?
You might enjoy Steven Pinker's "Language Instinct". (monoskop.org/images/2/20/Pinker_Steven_The_language_instinct_1995.Pdf)
Who is that girl speaking?
they say it in the beginning frank
She looks like Sam Harris, even the eyebrow is the same :)
beauty and brains, nice combination!
+Arthur Furchtgott and consider that english is her second language!
Timur Melnik where is she from?
+Timur Melnik never mind,I just googled it,she's from Belarus.
Human Being I am completely agree with you.
Timur Melnik She sounds American to me. English isn't my first language either, though.
thanks for explaining everything, now I understand why I can't just translate something without changing the meaning of it
who is she?
I don't think a clear causal link between a person's language and their actions/thoughts is provided in the examples given. For example, those speakers who refer to somebody's 'south-west' leg rather than their left or right leg, may indeed turn out to be much better at directions/orientation than say, an English speaker.. but where is the evidence that it is the language's *structure* itself, and not just the *specific cultural use* of that language that is making them better at this? As hinted at in the presentation, it's through repeated practice that this skill is acquired by the speakers of the 'south-west' language. Let's say an English speaker was to teach their child to refer to 'south west' legs from a young age: it would likely result in the child acquiring the same skill. I don't think it's the language's structure itself (what *has* to be said), but rather the cultural/social *use* of the language (what *can* be said and what speakers generally tend to say), that results in this difference... the Sapir-Whorf hypothesis just never seems to hold up.
Abslutely agree.
But it was her point, you normally use the words available in your language, and if there is no left and right in a tongue, you're just bound to using other concepts... furthermore, experiments on piranhã people who were taught math show that those who were not provided with count - number words at a suitable age, can't do math no matter how hard they try
Yeah. Verbal language doesn't constrict our capacity for thought and reason. This is pretty well understood in the cognitive sciences. There's an awful lot of thought that goes beyond the verbal constraints, like visualizations. Much of our thinking goes way beyond our ability to verbalize.
(@The Lord of Siberia) Yeah, but I'm talking about showing a strong causal link between the *structure* of the language itself (the structural, mandatory components of the language) and thoughts/actions/abilities. There is a difference between a language's structure and cultural usage - they are very different things, and she provides no evidence as to why the structure is impacting thought, rather than repeated usage (that speakers of any language could adopt). The Sapir-Whorf hypothesis... it's an easy and pretty theory, but there isn't enough evidence to support it. The nit-picking you have to do, and the assumptions you have to make to draw your conclusions just aren't convincing. (See 'The Language Hoax' by John McWhorter).
@@thelordofsiberia8900 Those studies on the Pirahã are self-contradictory nonsense.
ur name plz ... owsme sistr
When I speak Klingon my personality changes and I feel as if I was not from this world.
she inspired me as psychlinguist. any one here intersted in linguistics?
Ditto
this video is great. it's not easy these days to find comprehensive or even concrete examples that support linguistic determinism which has been largely debunked.
it's not easy to find them exactly because it HAS been largely debunked. Have you read "The Language Hoax" by John McWhorter?
Right when she said "count words" I knew I was done with this.
?
Duh!
i definitely believe that people can change their personalities when they switch languages.
And still we have the intelligensia unable to cut to the quick, Alexander Pope would laugh !!
Sorry to say she said nothing about thinking
I speak 3 languages and I am the same person. the sapir-whorf hypothesis has been disproven. only Berkeley would push this theory. papillon and butterfly give me the same thought. this theory denies the fact that a person can transform her language or use it poetically or creatively. it assumed language acts upon us in an absolute sense and that a person can't use language/a corpus creatively.
+StimuLAZ i understand 3 languages and speak 3 languages. french is not one of them. i do understand the word "canard" though, as i have heard it in the context of hoaxes and ducks, and quacks, which is what anyone who buys into the old ideas of sapir-whorf and uses them to sell books and get tenure is. if language itself shapes thought, we have to accept the fact that h20 is how we should refer to water, because it is referentially more accurate. but this is absolute absurdity. when a new concept or way of thought emerges, language changes. not the other way around. linguistic relativity actually, in my understanding, can be more dangerous, socially, than admitting thoughts and cognition are universally the same in all modern human beings, ie homo sapiens etc
+StimuLAZ have you studied linguistics at all and are you familiar witht he history of the debate at all? are you aware that i didn't make up these words. i'm not sure what you mean. i am not talking about semantics or meaning at all. what i am talking about is the thought process itself, which remains teh same, in spite of grammar or what language corpus is used. the wiring and the computational or cognitive process remains teh same. what linguistic relativists actually do posit is that this is not the case. has nothing t do with semantics or meanings. sure, those or contextual or expressive or whatever. doesn't matter. what boroditsky and others claim is that external languge actually affects the cognitive processes, computational or otherwise. context is not the issue. it puzzles me why people who haven't studied linguistics find talking about language without reference to semantics or corpus/natural langauges so difficult, if not impossible. all this has been disproven since chomsky eliminated behaviorism in the 50s. still, people continue to insist of reference and semantics. i am going to have to stop interfacing with you because i think you simply just aren't going to get what "language" refers to in contemporary linguistics. it certainly doesn't refer to reference itself. external, ie natural languages, do not in any serious sense "shape" cognition. cognition on the other hand reshapes external ie natural languages. this gets proven not only when children aquire langueges but when rappers invent slang. boroditsky simply wants to go back to behaviorism but we've already been there and it didn't work out
+StimuLAZ yeah i'm getting pretty tired of this. as i say, i am not against sapir or whorf and sure i understand how "the sapir-whorf" hypothesis, as the title of a theory about language, developed amidst history's many confusions and all that. it's not a matter of what i want. i'd actually like if language acc. to sapir-whorf was right. but a thesis about relativity implies it is absolute, it also implies languages can be "better" than others; whereas universal grammar allows for freedom, even chaos, and more relativity in terms of expression and meaning. people who don't get this simply haven't studied linguistics or have an agenda. the basic stance is easy: the external grammar of languages has no substantial effect on the process of cognition. the end.
+StimuLAZ at thi point i really cannot tell if you are trolling or have some mental issue with your own communication. seriously, just read up on the latest linguistics research if it interests you. boroditsky is a throwback to behaviorism. no serious linguist, outside of a few quacks like some missionary zealot in the amazon and a few berkeley rhetoricians of the old new left, has proved chomsky wrong in any fundamental sense. in fact, the field itself exists because of him. generally, as philosophers of language and linguists have shown, for quite some time, we actually don't "think in words" because most "thoughts" come in the form of a "sentence." please read some actual linguistics if you want to understand the science from a scientific and empirical perspective that is grounded in a solid method. you can have the last word or whatever. at this point, i'm not sure there is an argument. i think i have stumbled into a dialogue with someone either trolling or just absolutely clueless. i apologize and don't mean that as an insult, i just think you need to understand lingsuitics better. also, we are failing to communicate because as chomsky and cognitive science shows, language is not used for communication. i know that seems absurd to you, but it isn't if you take the time to think. i mean think, instead of trying to communicate. think. cognize. etc. bye
mannyaudaz Hey bro. I was reading your comment, and perhaps im mistaking the definition of referential but isnt h2o less accurate than water as it applies to 3 states of matter instead of 1?
I think she has this process backwards. Language does not shape how we think. Thinking shapes how we speak. Even Chomsky talks about how patterns are cognitively imprinted which then makes way for language. Seems to me language arrives after how we think with all its signs and symbols to convey primitive thoughts.
How disappointing that a talk on such an interesting subject attracts a mostly empty room. Are all the other linguists now talking about gender, race and colonialism?
And that is why language can be so strongly weaponized and drive behavior as with politically correct language.
one of those RARE souls, who, somehow mystically, puts an ear to ear smile on my face, after the first few things she utters. the Logos is alive.
Professor, if you like to actually learn something about language evolution, or if you like to find the 'fossils ' of human languages, than start by Lear Albanian language. Don't wast your life time confusing yourself and others. Read Petro Zheji books. "The Messianic role of Albanian language ".
i swear she s saying the same thing over and over again
Very interesting talk. Boring audience
Too much Ah ah ah 😣
Well she is ill informed about human geolocation and orientation. Generally we don't geo locate ourselves because there is no need. Try asking the same question about where is SE to a English speaking sea faring community. You might also get an experienced sea farer to explain their location while blind folded (they can generally estimate where they are from the sea state, wave length and movement - often with great precision) Nothing to do with language.
+Andrew Stone I don't think your example discredits hers, how about just think about the exigence calls for the development of the ability? Since people have to use the cardinal directions to use the language, they then develop a more keen sense to them. Since the sailors have to use the cardinal directions to sail out and hopefully safely back, they develop a keen sense to them.
+Kun Lin That was not my point. People who travel without formal navigational aids 'geolocate' themselves by reference to their environment. It's not obvious until you move from the northern hemisphere to the south, and your whole sense of direction is reversed. Similarly people who live on the equator get disorientated with time because of the change in day length in high latitudes. At sea you read the wave pattern and wind. Determining N S E W is easy if you stay in a fixed postion - difficult if you are moving or at sea. The research quoted makes assumptions about the context the language is to be used in that are probablly not valid. So while agreeing about the importance of language and context, I am fairly sure the effects of changing day length and latitude and the ability of visual referend and their effect on the use of language were not taken into account. This is whole different area of research.
But most people who don't need to geolocate from day to day are very keen to those cues though
+Kun Lin Yes, but language evolved in situations where finding your location can be easy or difficult - it depends where you live. North, South and East West are easy to locate using the position of the sun if you live on the equator. It's not so easy in high or low latitutes. Day length and the position of the rising and setting sun are more or less the same at the equator. The further you get from the equator the more they vary. So language must change because we estimate time and position in different ways depending on the latitude. It's natural that languages that develop in high latitudes should have a relative, body centred, system for location or position while languages from nearer to the equator do not. The development of language is definitely context based - but the speaker overlooks the difficulty of estimating position in different environments.
I think she did mention that the languages she discussed are from Australia. I agree with you that the development is context based, most European languages do have a system of west, east, north and south yet don't use them to refer to positions. It's probably because of it's hard to do so in high latitudes as you pointed out. However, I still do find it very neat that people would use cardinal directions in day to day conversations, maybe just because the ease of doing so in their location. Just a side note, the fact that people can accurately locate the cardinal directions, maybe location specific, comes right in the face of those people who admire the ability of animals to accurately migrate around the world and overlook the possibility of people doing the same thing under certain circumstances. Also, just out of curiosity, do you know if the speakers of languages that use cardinal directions experience any difficulty speaking their language when they relocate to some high latitude regions?
I hope she's not married.
+StimuLAZ actually, 675 is my phone number. i'm only 500 years old. and since you are familiar with the subject, you should know that language experts do enjoy fish as their company a lot. especially those hotchikaones
StimuLAZ yeah but like 85% she will devour me in bed
StimuLAZ you really got me LOLing hard here
Interesting but nothing mind-blowing.
there like 3 ppl at this talk. embarrassing af