Sony FX3 / FX30 Rig with 32 Bit Float Audio?? [Zoom F3]
Links To Everything In This Build:
Sony FX3: geni.us/Mesh-fx3
Sony FX30: geni.us/Mesh-FX30
Zoom F3: geni.us/zooom-f3
Rod Clamps: amzn.to/3S9ePQN
15mm Rods: amzn.to/4bgSYjo
Microphone: amzn.to/3Soy4aq
XLR Cable: amzn.to/4b37oU1
FX3 Cage: geni.us/FX3-Cage
Cineback: camerafoundry.com/products/ci...
→ If you can't get a Cineback, this is also great: amzn.to/47t6nll
V Mount Battery: geni.us/v99pr
Cheaper V Mount Options:
→ geni.us/V-Mount-99
→ geni.us/V-Mount-50
Nato Rail: geni.us/nato-rail
Top Handle: geni.us/top-handle
Top Handle Cable: geni.us/top-handle-cable
Top Handle Alternative: amzn.to/3NTQbTg
Top Handle (Wood): geni.us/Nato-Top
Monitor Mount: geni.us/monitor-swivel
Monitor Mount (Alternative): amzn.to/41P9ti6
Nato Monitor Rail: geni.us/monitor-nato
Side Handle: geni.us/Nato-Side
Hollyland Monitor: geni.us/hollyland-mars
Alternate Monitors:
→ Portkeys: geni.us/Portkeys
→ Atamos: amzn.to/3vttL4P
Dummy Battery: geni.us/kondor-dummy
HDMI Cable: geni.us/hdmi-right
Monitor Power: geni.us/monitor-dtap
Mondo Ties: geni.us/mondo-ties
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The audio issue is due to the battery and the 3.5mm jack looping the ground. As you've pointed out it doesn't happen when using another battery: the splitter isn't the issue, the ground being shared is. Actually a common complaint from users of the Fotga DP200/300 battery plate too. It's potentially dangerous and it happens with HDMI/SDI cables too (sometimes frying the port if the loop isn't closed in the correct order, turn on first then video input). It should be solved by using a ground loop isolator, a 3.5mm cable with a box at the end of it. From what I see these are also available for HDMI/SDI signals for those interested.
I came to the comments to say this. Ha ha. I was too slow.
I knew I could count on someone to know what I was missing out on. Appreciate it
This! There are a lot of ground loop eliminators out there but most of them are quite bulky. Big downside for me on the F3 would be only 2 audio inputs as you get 4 with the top handle.
same lol@@Mevi
Super interested in this build - do any of you guys have any suggestions for specific ground loop isolators that might work well? Thanks!
With sony XLR top handle you can record 4 Channel Audio internal in camera. That is important when you want to avoid sync audio from different sources in the post. This is the advantage of the sony XLR handle.
I’ve considered using this combo, but I didn’t know about the line out cable. That made it much more realistic for me. Thanks!
This was my setup for the last year and some change. Loved the Zoom F3. It was just too big, so I changed it out for the Rode Wireless Pro, which has the same 32-bit float in a smaller package. The sound out of my Sennheiser MKE 600 still sounds great, but your setup is still an awesome one too!
Great video! Glad to see some else thinking this way. I use the FX3 as my audio on a GH6/R8. Another mounting option is using a FALCAM F22 quick release, less parts. Thanks for posting this!
Dude, you ROCK! Thanks for putting this together! Since watching your last video, I've been putting together my own version of a cineback since they're out if stock currently. That being said, I'll be running a custom DTap splitter and custom cables from Alvin's Cables and will keep you posted with my findings along the lines of interference. I love the way you mounted the F3, very excited to give this a go! As far as mounting the shotgun, I was using my Deity S3 mic on a 15mm rod clamp cold shoe mounted below the left-side NATO handle, and that worked pretty well to give another option for mounting position. Thanks a ton for the hard work! Sorry to send you down the rabbit hole hahaha
Thanks for the idea man! Definitely interested to see how that combo turns out
was looking at the top handle for the longest time and considering getting an fx3/30 solely for KZhead set up but now that the f3 came out I’m able to use my backup camera. Also don’t own a cine back so no audio interference there. Appreciate you big dawg
OMG so crazy 3 days ago I was looking for THIS EXACT video and now you came out with it. Crazy scary lol
The KZhead algorithm is getting scary good at helping us find each other 😂
A mini v plate easily mounts the F3 to a cage or side of a cheese plate. That's exactly how I have mine mounted - it's on the side of my V mount plate. Works like a dream.
What do you mean here? Would love to see the setup
I recently did this exact set up and found a solution to sending the Zoom audio into the FX3. Just run the line out cable through a Ground Loop Noise Isolator. They are $8 on Amazon. I used Velcro to attach it to the vmount battery.
I am still amaze that NO camera manufacturer offer 32 bit internally.... Like for an fx3 mark 2 I would make it that using either the audio jack or the handle you have 32 bit float inside and also make the door for the mic/ headphone jack 2 separates doors so you can fully rotate the LCD when only a mic is plug in.
This. Absolutely agree with this. Every camera manufacturer seems to tread audio as an afterthought.
There is a guy on eBay selling the Sony XLR handle for $250. I went that route with the Smallrig Handle Extension, and the new Smallrig monitor mount that protects the XLR head, and gives you a place to mount your monitor, and it is custom made for the XLR handle. If I need 32 bit float, I have a Zoom F2. The battery last 16 hours.
Sometimes we over complicate things when it doesn't really have to be. I run a Sennheiser MKE400 V2 straight into the camera and it's more than enough.
You say that now. But there will be a time when u have clipping and you will realise how good 32bit float is.
@@ElijahTichborne I sort of feel the likelihood of the zoom battery dying or forgetting to hit record on it are probably a higher risk than blowing the audio. 32 bit float won’t save the noise of a mic being knocked or rubbed or wind noise you didn’t expect, that’s where headphones are still critical.
@JonathanPalfrey thats true. I've been in out foor situations where i couldn't stop the wind from Wrecking audio. That's why i pulled the pin on bothe the rode wireless pro and the zoom f3. Both have served me well. I run the Zoom with a battery bank.
@ElijahTichborne audio is kinda like file storage. 1 is none and 2 is one. Running both the rode and zoom is great. When I do weddings I usually do rode lavs on the bride and groom, attach a small recorder to all the handheld mics, have on camera mic for scratch, and run the zoom into the DJs mixer
You will run into a situation you’ll wish you had it, just give it time
I use a Zoom F3 with my Z Cam E2 S6, and i also have that noise ground loop issue when powered through my vmount. Pretty simple fix. I just picked up a 10$ inline 3.5 mm ground loop isolator. Fixed the problem right away. (Used to use these in my car with the aux cable before bluetooth was more of a thing😂)
Awesome video, super informative! My only problem is cable management, with the D-tap, type-c, HDMI + power cords all tangled up, my camera pretty much looks like a birds nest.
nice solution! Thanks for sharing :)
My pleasure
Thanks Bro…Very informative, especially the secondary option for us cinebackless owners 😉 My 1st thought is shielding properties/materials, but I assume isolating the cineback enough for that to work properly isn’t’ realistic. I appreciate this…btw, my cage, rods, V-batt, etc just came in today 👏🏽
awesome! hope it all comes together nicely for you
Love my f3
Try to connect the zoom directly to the v mount battery which attached to the cineback But directly threw the battery not from the cineback For the mic you can just add an other clamp and hold the mic from two places which supposed to be better
Thanks, very nice. As you said, the one downside I see really is the sync in post. compared to using the handle when we get the audio in camera. But very very nice! As for the mic I use the Kondor Blue mic holder and its MUCH better than the one I saw in the video, sturdy!
Agreed... the Kondor Blue mic holder is much better for absorption etc. Strongly considered it, but this one was a little more low profile (especially the width). Great Suggestion!
the sync should be simple if you have a pass through from the f3 to your camera setup, just use audio sync and your editor should be able to do it perfectly since its the exact same audio at different bit rates.
Sennheiser makes a small cold shoe mic shock mount. It’s extremely solid and low profile.
so this is overkill probbaly for most however I found it extremely useful for my on the go rig. I connected a Ulanzi F38 Quick Release plate (Top Plate) to my Zoom F3 and connexted the Ulanzi (Bottom Plate) to my Sony A7III Cage it makes it so much easier to just connect when I need it and disconnect quickly. it was about $30 on Amazon. I also have a shotgun (audio technica AT8035 Long) mounted on a mic clamp on opposite side of Cage where F3 is at. figured Id put this out there as not many people talk about mounting options out there and you dont have to remove the bars.
I still use my XLR handle for every video I make in my studio. Makes things so much more simple.
Interesting I’ve been using the zoom f3 for everything in the studio for a while, but could see the simplicity argument for sure. Excited for the XLR cineback
rigid pro makes a cineback that connects to the audio top handle to make it one larger more sturdy handle.
Thanks!
Hey, I've already posted this comment on your other video.. but here is my solution for using the XLR handle and still make a compact cine rig for the FX3/FX30 I admit that the original FX3 top handle is not the best but once you upgrade it with the SMALLRIG MD3490 XLR Extensión Rig and the SmallRig MD3990 Top Plate it changes everything. On the MD3990 top plate, I add a 2172 Mini Quick Release NATO Rail + a SmallRig 2905B Monitor Mount to attach my 5" portkeys BM5 III monitor connected using the 2957B Smallrig Ultra-Slim 4K HDMI Cable. Instead of the Cineback, I just use the (relatively new) Small Rig 4064B Compact V-Mount Battery Mounting System that directly attaches on the NATO rail of the TILTA Full Camera Cage (also works with Smallrig cage). It's an L-shaped design, compact, 230gr, tool-less mounting system for V-mount battery that doesnt require any rods. Compared to the Cineback, it doesnt have so many D-tap and doesn't have power switch to avoid drain when the camera is not in use... but for me this is not a dealbreaker and doesn't outweigh the fact of being able to use the FX3 XLr handle. The FX3 flip screen can also be safely tucked away on the side of the V-lock and serve as a control screen, just like on the Cineback. I also use the VB99 batteries which are awesome and power the camera via USB-C. I dont use a dummy battery because I like the battery to remain closed and in case my V-mount battery runs out of power, the camera doesn't turn off as the internal battery takes over and I have plenty of time to hot swap a fully charged V-mount battery. My Portkeys monitor connects to the 8V output of the V-lock. I get between 4 and 5 hours of runtime with a fully charged VB99 battery. I also use the SmallRig 3847 Side Handle, that can rotate and as a NATO quick release system to attach on the left side of the cage. That offers a really stable way to hold camera. And that's my alternative to the CINEBACK but I certainly look forward to see if there is a version in the future that will allow to use the FX3/FX30 XLR top handle. Congrats for your video.
I somehow rigged my mixpre 6 II to my FX30… now that’s overkill 😂… that mic placement though might get the monitor fan sounds which you may not want
I have the same audio issues with the Deity V-Mic D3 Pro, if power is applied while using it. Which is a shame, because I also have a vmount setup with a back that allows me to go USB to accessories. So what I do is keep it plugged in until I am ready to record then (annoyingly) have to remember to unplug it.
Hi Kyle, great video by the way. Regarding the interference I have the same problem (thought it was only me) I am not a pro just a hobby. I use two Sony type np batteries on v-mount plate to power my camera (Sony PXW-X70) and zoom H8 for external audio. As soon as I connect line out from zoom to in on camera I get serious interference, but if I power the H8 via power bank(not v-mount) all is perfect. Not a big deal for me but wondering why this happens in the first place.
I’ve been using this combo religiously for past 6 months (Sony FX30 + Zoom F3) It’s a great combo and underrated That being said I’m using my DJI Mic 2 w/ Shure SM7db for talking heads and probably selling my other 32bit float audio interfaces.
Interesting - How are you powering the Shure in that situation? Doesn’t it require phantom power?
@@kylemeshna No phantom power required the mic preamp isn't enabled, just out my video for results: kzhead.info/sun/Z95_YJGIp3WImo0/bejne.htmlsi=8VBR4ZJmdNCu9bmX
Okay dang that’s super legit! Gonna need to pick that up!
I use the zoom F1N. You can power it with AAA batteries or micro USB cord ☺️ they battery door is commonly broken
If you are truly set on making it work, add a VB50 to power the zoom. looks like it could sit nicely on top between the mic mount and zoom. It is slim so should sit sideways under the mic. Hard to tell though. Secondly, I can see many people using this on a shoulder rig.. so the rig will give you another set of rails in the back to mount the secondary v mount if needed and you can adjust it to help the balance. At some point, we have to do the math on the cost vs selling and buying an fx6.. I know it does not have 32 bit float, but I think most people are going for looks and weight for stabilization. Plus you pick up internal nd's. Still very cool looking.
I'm running my Zoom F3 by attaching it on a monitor mount to the end of my top handle. That allows you to angle it forward and a little sideways so that the XLR cable can run to the front into the mic without touching your hands. I don't like attaching a mic to the side handle as is will transfer noise. I'm using a Rycote inVision on camera adapter microphone mount, and it's pretty much dead silent. The Smallrig adapter was too wobbly for my taste. To power the F3 you can use a 10,000mAh+ powerbank with Power Delivery. They're small and cheap and will power anything on the rig for a long time.
Nice! Where do you have your monitor mounted in that setup?
@@kylemeshna on the top handle, I'm using the Nitze Stinger. Mounting points galore 😄
@@HighlyAkicktive ah nice! definitely interested in seeing what that rig looks like!
@@kylemeshna I'll send you a pic on Instagram
I mean, I'd just prefer to keep things simple, especially for run and gun....for the FX30, I would suggest grabbing on of one of those Sony Digital Shotgun Mics which feeds audio through the hot shoe, so you eliminate the need for an audio cable and mic battery.. the ECM-M1 has been getting rave reviews and does a clever 4 channel trick within the FX line of cameras.. (I have the ECM-GZ1M, because I need a low profile for my gimbal) And sure, If you need to mic talent then grab that nifty new DJI Mic 2, which has the 32 bit float.. and it costs the same as the Zoom F3.. and each mic records internally on the transmitter.. and you only need one receiver for two transmitters.. and did I mention it's only $350? Now I understand where you and alot of others are coming from, as I have spent alot of coin on my pro audio gear. And I know you're using the FX30 as your A Cam and don't mind building it out like a cinema camera... My Sennheiser EW wireless, Tram Lav & Sennheiser 600 MKE shotgun and all the mounts, vampire clips, boom poles, etc that I own still get alot of use.. if you're doing a sit down interview with the client breathing down your neck, there should be an audio recorder in your run bag.. I have a H5 Zoom recorder on a Naga Arm that I use all the time.. and for interviews where there's time to set up, I hard wire the mics into it, properly (and send an audio feed to my camera as well)... My H5 is an invaluable tool to have with its XY mics, especially at live events where I can drop it somewhere to record the Crowd and/or get a board feed.. It just depends on the situation, but for me, I don't like to over build my FX30
Are you using alkaline or lithium AA batteries for the zoom? I’m curious how long rechargeable lithium ones would last.
I have experienced the battery interference issue when you plug something that doesnt deliver the exact amp-volt mix that the device needs. In my experience, 5v-1.5A does the trick with the zoom devices. Please let me know if this makes sense and if other solutions may be available, I often experience this with multiple devices, especially when plugged to standard usb chargers.
Now do it with the Zoom F6 😂 I would personally go with the newly released DJI Mic 2 now (or Rode Wireless Pro), it records 32-bit, the noise canceling is getting better and better, and is way smaller compared with the traditional options. I would mount it underneath the front-end lens area using the rods, and boy you have great sound, it runs for 6 hours and you don't need to run too many cables around the rig.
I think that mainly depends on your needs. I record a lot of ambient sounds for mountain biking, etc. where a lav isn't the best bet. But for weddings or something similar, that would be a perfect option
Nice
Awesome, I have the zoom f3 and bought it for stabilizer shots so I can capture audio off the camera. I just the zoom on my belt and keep it away from the camera. But, I'm using wireless lavs. I recently bought the fx30 and hope to get the fx3 soon. I got the fx30 on sale with the top handle mics. I probably don't need the xlr handle because I already have a sony hotshoe dual xlr thingy. But, I do multi camera so maybe one day having extra xlr's will be cool. Until then these things will be collecting a lot of dust. I only use the zoom on a very rare occasion, when I'm doing gimble work. But, I just bought the new Rode Pro mics and they have 32 bit on each transmitter. So, I will likely be able to use those instead of the zoom for gimble work. I wonder, do you think the zoom is better than those new Rode mics? Or are they essentially the same?
The rode mics (and new DJI mic 2) have 32 bit float yes, but the microphone themselves is a lot worse than many of the XLR mics you could use on a zoom. So if you want to use a shotgun, I think you’re better off with the zoom. But if you’re going to lavs, maybe the wireless mics are a better option
right on, makes sense, I didn't know if maybe there was anything else to consider... I've got way too many toys! @@kylemeshna
Tengo una pregunta si estas trabajando y sucede algo le das el botón de rec a la camara y no le das rec a la grabadora? Cómo haces para sincronizar ambas cosas ?
Problem at 7:00 sounds like a groundloop issue and could be resolved by syncing audio with timecode... but I do wonder if it's even worth going through all this effort just for on-camera audio when most of the time it's not going to sound great anyway. I just use a regular 3.5mm powered shotgun mic into my fx30 if I need on-camera audio, then an F6 separately (timecode sync'd) with MKE600 or line feed from a mixer etc. for when audio is important. I don't think you're going to really benefit from going through all this to get 32bit audio from an on-camera mic where your ambient noise floor is going to drown out any pre-amp noise or whatever anyway
What if you put a ground loop on the OUT?
Great video. I use an FX6 and this could be handy when rigging on a gimbal. What would be the best method for syncing to scratch audio in Premiere? Many thanks
Timecode sync, clap at the microphone to use that as a way to sync in post.
I use my xlr top handle all the time, so useful to have 4 channel audio and no cables to turn it on, find it easy to rig to and makes a great short doc compact camera rig, dont understand all the hate on it.
Where’s your monitor go? That’s always been my biggest issue
@@kylemeshna I use it on left side nato rail of the tilta cage, below the HDMI port, I used to do it before buying the handle to. I can see this being a little bit of an annoyance to some, but other than that I just feel it's so useful for run and gun situations!
I have the same interference feedback issue with my rig running the Zoom F2 instead of the F3, I can't power it via USB-C while recording sadly.
ok i have 3 possible solutions for your ground loop problem. 1: a groung loop eliinator. you can get them really cheaply. you just plug them into your line in and then plug your 3.5mm jack into it. they're competely passive and completely negate ground loops because there is no longer a direct electrical connection. The signal is passed through induction. the cons are; you have to add another thing to your rig (in this case an appox 40mm x 10mm cylinder) and the signal strngth often drops by a small amount when using one of these. 2: use a battery that has additional D taps on the side. kind of obvious, but if your splitter is causing a ground loop just bypass the splitter for any audio equipment. Cons: you may have to buy new batterys and hunting around for a brand that makes them in the exact dimensions you need with D taps in the right place sounds annoying 3: embrace the jank. if we assume that the ground loop is only introduced through the usb-c port the AA dummy batteries might be your friend. Cons: i've only seen dummy AA batteries produced by sketchy unbranded manufacturers so there's no guarantee of quality, also the assumption that the round loop will only carry through the usb port may not be true even if the dummy batteries are good. I'd go with a groung loop eliminator, I'm sure you can find a solution with a little bit of velcro or a clamp to keep it in place. you may even like that you can effectively choose where to place your line in port.
The same issue happen whit Lumix + V mount batterie (if you using for feed the camera) + any audio system. I need use another batterie.
New to filming/audio. Can anyone explain how this set up would compare to a deity d4 mini and rode wireless pro set up? I’m sure there are differences in mic quality but as far as functionality and size it seems like the smaller setup could accomplish everything the larger one could right? Am I missing something here?
I use a 2 AA Battery Eliminator - 3 Volts - USB Powered USB-C from a battery pack.
If I am running audio from the F3 into the camera so that I don't need to sync in post, do I need to constantly have the F3 recording? I want this setup as run and gun as possible and am concerned with losing audio. Thanks!
No you don’t need to be recording with this setup
If you have a longer shotgun mic as you mention, doesn´t they use XLR so you just can plug it in the Zoom F3? Cool set uo otherwise. :)
I actually had that setup broken down in the video as a 3rd option…but it kept getting bumped and picking up too much noise of handling the camera, so I decided to cut it from the video
Ok so I was looking at this video and then started looking cine back or not, couldn’t you use a 1/4 20 to cold shoe and just slap it on the back of the massive kondor blue handle you’re already running in that cold shoe mount especially kondor blue makes and height extension mount for the nato rail mount
yes. I tested this but it's pretty clunky and not very secure. It came loose very easily
@@kylemeshna my next thought would be to use a thin Velcro strap and strap it with the bars around the V-mount but I don’t have the stuff to test the theory
I tried to buy the Cinemaback camera 🎥 Foundry Cage sense December I sent several email but nothing 😢 you know another way to found a cinema cage for Fx30???
New cinebacks should be ready to order within the next few days
I hope so my question is why so many and professional promotions with No product available??? No tiene sentido!!!
It would be awesome if someone developed an audio-in port via the hot shoe so it would be easy to replace the top handle's audio functions with a Zoom F3 or whatever-get the quality recording synced with video without the hassle of doing it in post. I don't trust the camera's audio in mini jack, it has a lot more noise and less frequency bandwidth.
I’m guessing Sony hasn’t allowed for this since we haven’t seen any 3rd party use of the hot shoe for audio
JUST USE SOME VELCRO AND STRAP THE THING TO THE BATTERY OR PLATE. Trust me, its how alotta old tv pros strapped audio kit to our cameras. The interference is the ground, it could be the cineback, or it could be the cables, camera, and recorder are all on the same pieces of metal.
The power interference isnt from the cineback, you cant have the F3 charging from the same power source as the camera.
Using and Anker Power Bank PD C cable directly to camera.. this maybe nonsense since I am assuming the FX has a C connector? Forgive me if it is nonsense. I shoot a GH-6 which has one.
Yes the fx3 has USBc power delivery as well!
DJI Mic 2 :)
And now kick the f3 and use the new Dji mic 2 with 32 float as well. Now you can go wireless with your boom if needed.
can you please get another word in stand of down there
1:38 Aliexpress is littered with these audio handles at around $200. Vendors de-bundle them from FX3 buyers and resell them in open box, new condition. It is absurd to know there may be people who pay $600 full price for that handle.
The Blackmagic Ursa microphone mount is completely overpriced but works well.
Funny, I don't use my zoom enough and constantly forget to hit record on that. Usually once my camera is recording I am good to go. In the heat of run and gun it's easy to be mislead because you hear the audio, the camera is recording and NO!!!!!!! the zoom isn't lol.
Xlr is better, you just bought this because the cineback blocks the top handle. The cineback looks good but is kinda pointless because now you have a ton of empty space between the camera and the vmount.
That space works great for cable management!
Seems like a lot of hassle for 32 bit float. I would just use the DJI mic 2 or Rode Pro and plug a shotgun into one as needed.
If you plugged the zoom into the 3.5 jack of the camera there is no 32 bit anymore.
3.5 is backup on the camera. 32 bit recorded to the recorder
@@kylemeshna great
And how is the workflow? As I understand that if you connect it with the camera, it will be already sync.. but then how do you use the actual 32 bit file? Just replacing them on the editor by syncronizing the waveforms?
Feedback is probably being caused because the power being fed in through usb port is causing a ground loop….
use a different mic, that takes a battery.
The portability limits the kind of content you can film. You buy the FX3 because it's small, no?
This is certainly not a small rig. I love the FX3 because it can be small or rigged into a much more robust solution like this
Over complicated rig plus the F6 makes more sense than the f3
I steal all my rig ideas from you and act like I created them
Hey! Audio engineer here! For you, as a videographer, 32 bit audio means absolutely nothing. I don’t understand why you’re using it as a selling point. Recording in 24 bit is more resolution that you could ever need. When we mix, we want a 32 bit linear environment to mix in; but even that is more headroom than we could ever possibly utilize. That is basically what our DAW is. An environment where we have so much resolution, that it might as well be unlimited. So when we record audio, we don’t care if we’re at 32 or not. 32 bit doesn’t really change floor to noise ratio. It doesn’t make audio recordings more crisp or loud or clear. A signal recorded at 24 bit will null with a signal recorded at 32 bit. If you don’t know what that means, it’s just a way we prove that 2 signals are totally identical; and we can absolutely show that with a null test. So just understand that 32 bit isn’t the selling point you think it is. We only care about preamp quality, Analog to Digital Conversion, and sample rate. We don’t care about bitrate. You will clip your preamp and converter waaaaaaaaaaaaay before you’ll exceed your 24 bit environment. So just keep that in mind for the future.
Wouldn't the xlr adapter from wooden camera work? Wooden Camera D BoX