Tadej Pogačar's Bike Fit
2023 ж. 28 Там.
76 665 Рет қаралды
Peak Torques Video on Pogačar: • Is Pogacar pre-rotated?
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About Neill Stanbury: neillsbikefit.com.au
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Expert Bike Fitter Neill Stanbury explains why Tadej Pogačar runs his saddle nose down in particular races. Usually professional cyclists get their bikes setup and don't change it all season long. However, Tadej has been seen to change his position sometimes race to race! Neill explains why this works and if you should be trying this...
#cycling #bike #fit
Thanks to Peak Torque for starting the discussion. You can see his video here: kzhead.info/sun/bNJvnriGoJOZoHA/bejne.htmlsi=s4AX111_7lbVtY1U
Pogi is the people's champ and therefore, we must all adopt his setup.
Amen
Can all also adopt his physique and fitness? That’d be great.
I'll just take drugs.😅
@@stuartdryer1352 For free if you join Jumbo :P
Pogacar is the loser's champion, you might as well just forfeit
5:45 Redshift Dual-Position Seatpost which has 16 mm offset and can be switched 50 mm forward on the go. It is used by people who ride their aerobars on a roadbike and want to get in that TT position.
The seatpost mentioned at the end is from a company called redshift.
Redshift make a seat post that you can switch on the fly between a standard road position and tri/aero position.
but isn't that only a fore-aft switch (and not a change in inclination)?
@@l.d.t.6327yep. no tilt, but fore-aft + probably higher stack on TT/Tri mode
Came to post this.
There was this guy in the 60’s and 70’s named Eddy, who was always adjusting his saddle position based on the race and how his body was doing. I’m sure other riders have figured out how to isolate large muscle groups and alter their position to emphasize glutes or quads, but Merckx was a master at it. You can see this in the old movies how he moved the saddle back to emphasize using the glutes on the hard climbs, or how he moved it forward to emphasize the quads and bring up the leg speed at Paris Roubaix. Learning how to isolate individual large muscle groups is a universally good idea - it’s the basis for efficient pedaling (it allows a rider to only use a muscle when it’s effective). Copying a pro’s position is statistically a terrible idea. He’s in the top .0001% and the average rider is average. KZhead channels tend to have a cognitive bias where the members believe they are well above average (because of in-depth testing that goes with subscription).
It was funny you mentioning the adjustable seat position. When I was a mechanic one of my riders was Alexi Grewal and he was using one we developed in Colorado. Pretty basic SR post back then but was sprung loaded to move it forward on a cable. We are talking 1989-1990 time frame.If I remember there was a fair amount of fore and aft. I enjoy the channel. Peter
I'm more of a mountain biker but I put a set of wrenches in the bag and adjusted the saddle on the trail. I set up both of my bikes this way and interestingly enough both came out exactly the same, just slightly over 1 degree of forward tilt. I found going over 2.5 degrees did make me feel like I was slipping forward and putting more pressure on my wrists. Small amounts can really dial in the comfort.
Hey Cam and Neil, I’d love you guys to do a video on how your ideal fit position might change with the type of riding you are doing. Specifically - let’s say you have a road race bike set up for performance oriented riding, but then you also have a gravel bike for off road riding and long all day epics. The position on the road bike may be fairly aggressive for aero benefit, and may be based on the fact you are putting out pretty constant and solid watts while riding which as mentioned in this video, helping support the torso and reduce pressure on the front end. But on the gravel machine riding is likely to be much steadier, and less constantly on the power while you deal with terrain challenges etc. As a result you aren’t going to be putting the same constant level of power into the pedals, especially when doing long all day / multi day rides. You are also going to be absorbing a lot more impacts through the bars so any extra loading on the hands will cause issues a lot quicker. Generally most people go for a shorter and higher bar position for the gravel bike - but should they be keeping the saddle position the same, or is it likely that moving the position back a bit to account for the lower power and type of terrain may be a good thing?
The Aenomoly Switchgrade is a mtb product which allows you to adjust seat angle on the fly. could be interesting on a road bike.
One must appreciate the perfect setup of the BMC in the background; everything aligned to perfection 😮😊
the saddle is still an abomination though
@@svh93and SMP saddle is still the only saddle that allows me to ride comfortably so looks not that much of an abomination to my eyes 😢
On steep gradients it might also help with keeping grip on the back wheel and maintaining a bit of pressure on the front wheel. Makes it easier to remain seated and thus maintain grip.
Coming from mtb background I move my saddle further forward and and angle slightly down from parallel. It helps with technically steep climbs and keeping the power down.
The device is called the Aenomaly switchgrade, it's used mostly on mountain bikes where they ride big ups and downs.
Not to be a spoiler, but these are simply photos of Pogi’s old 2022 fit (neutral saddle angle) and his 2023 fit (angled down.) This is plainly apparent because the groupsets/wheels/etc have changed this year.
The seat forward aft adjustment was used in mid 80s triathlons supplied from the US David Scott was used in advertisements. I think it was hydrologic
Check redshift seatpost ;) originally for road and TT saddle position switch. Good idea and product
I saw Pog up close in Montreal at the GP Cycliste where there are two big climbs but 17 laps, and this is exactly the situation of lots of climbs over 7%. They are not pedaling hard on the descent because it has turns and they are recovering.
RedShift has a seatpost with changeable seatback more for aero/nonaero position rather than climbing couse angle stays the same
redshift actually makes that shift on saddle forward and back. heavier seatpost though.
RCA again top video thanks Neill common sense and good reasoning .
The device he is talking about changing the position of the saddle is called redshift dual position seatpost
Redshift has that saddle that varies. I use it in my trainer bike that I share with the wife. Pogacar can be seen shaking his hands in the 2023 tdf. Especially after descending. I assumed it was due to the wrist I jury.
I lowered and tilted saddle forward after watching Peak Torque video as I do a lot of long climbs and it relieved, significantly, lower back pain and pressure. Anecdotal I know… but can now do 45-60 min climbs with no back pain. 🤷♂️. Thanks for vids.
Your saddle was just too high bro. Lower your saddle so you dont need to tip it so aggressively.
Someone made a tilt adjustable seatpost @ 1994: Power Post. IIRC some mtb races in had a Power Post section.
This is why saddles with a swoop up at the back are best. Gives you something to brace against and push off of on flats, and becomes level when the gradient increases
There is a MTB seatpost that allows the tilt to be changed as you are riding
My sciatica is a small price to pay to look like a pro.
Electric car seat type mechanism. Program your angles and set-backs, hit the under saddle button, and slide into place 👌😎
Redshift makes a seat post with saddle adjustment function. I don't remember much about it?? Maybe you can check it out. Tailwinds to ya, love your work, Carl NKC
Love the BMC in the back with the SMP ( I guess it is the Forma model), strange that it is so far back on the rails while using non zero offset seat post
it looks really far forward on the rails though, look at the rails themselves its almost all the way back, SMP saddles are supposed to be a bit more forward than others. It just "looks" like its far back on the rails because of the seat post angle, theres no more space behind the rails to even move the seat forward lol
Was this peak torques video that inspired this?
There is a performance advantage, and as Neil has mentioned, that’s the reason mountain bike racers have the saddle forward and sloped down. With mountain bikes in particular, as top tubes have grown longer, suspension requiring more sag, and head angles slacker, they have also adopted steeper seat angles to compensate for all of these changes and still make the bike rideable on climbs. The caveat is that modern geo mountain bikes are rubbish on flat terrain and pits your knee way in front of the pedal.
He's also shortened his reach this year vs last year according to what I heard on a lanterne rouge podcast. Is he protecting his low back?
Tri bikers move the saddle forward to save running muscle for the run. (according to the inventor Dan Empfield). Meaning, the more the saddle is moved forward the less leg muscle you use. Try the no hands test, when the saddle is forward you can't get your center of gravity over the pedals to hold yourself up, you push yourself forward and not up. Being behind the pedal elongates the power stroke, you use more muscle, preventing muscle isolation and un recoverable on bike fatigue. Pogacar's tiled saddle, fixes his forward position when climbing. Who doesn't slide back in the saddle for more power climbing?
6:00 - I remember that fore/aft sliding device, used by triathletes, back in the 1990's. It was cable actuated and was released with a spring-loaded gizmo. I wish I remembered the name, but I suspect that it is sitting in history's dustbin now.
There was a product made for tri athletes back in the 90's called a "Slingshot", that was spring loaded and shot the seat forward when the rider was on the flats to more simulate running on the bike. It could then be unlocked and pushed back for climbing, it moved 3-4 cm, or thereabouts. I only know this because I was managing a cycle shop that catered to try athletes in western Canada back then and couldn't keep them on the shelves, along with Powerbars ..lol
Curious as to why this would benefit short, punchy climbs and not long climbs. I live in the French Alps and if you cut out any of my descents, I ride almost nothing flat or negative. Lowest gradient is probably 3%, normally 5% and of course as much as 20%. Further, this can be for as much as >25km at a time. In any given ride, this can be for as much as 50+% of a ride. So would a dropped nose not be worth considering? Especially given I'm built more like a sprinter so am very powerful/compact around the pelvis.
Sounds like where i live. Languedoc national park. Usually 5-8%. I wish strava could show total mean power over all climbs, not whole ride.
What do you guys think about other aspects of this position on the bike - narrow, flared handlebars he uses. Is that just a small aero gain, or is it actually comfort improvement?
I've seen some testing shownig that the aero benefit could be quite big - 10 watter from 4cm narrower bars, and another 1-4 watts from turning the hoods WAY inward. The bottoms being flared is I guess for better control in that position and would add more drag. As for comfort, you'd need to try it to see. I like pretty narrow bars
Assuming you don't change anything else other than your seat angle, SHOULD anything else change to accomodate this nose down cycling? Height up or down? Reach change? Or literally just tilt it down? In the day of integrated everything, you can't really throw a different stem on week to week as a mortal. Just curious what your body does if you tilt down and if you should change something else to sorta get the full benefit.
The interesting point in my mind is that he’s made this change that may or may not apply more pressure on his hands knowing he had that wrist fracture this past spring.
Cheers guys!
The OG
Hope you sent this to Chris and Jessie after they dissed your theory on this!
Steve Hogg's experience has entered the chat via Neil. IYKYK. Great video guys. The new bikes with the one piece bar and or 'aero seat post' mean you CANT get your dialed in bike fit. 2 piece bar with a round seat post is the ONLY way you can get your bike fit DIALED day to day how you need it. IYKYK.
Niel nailed the reason why Pogacar's saddle position works for him and has questionable veracity for an 'average' cyclist. A way to consider it is...for the average 200 watt, 80+kilo rider, a saddle is a chair. For a top pro who can sustain 400 watts at 65 kilos like Pogacar, a saddle is a perch aka a brief resting place or even a reference and a balance point. Huge pedal forces + light torso, Pogacar can be way over his cranks with very light pressure on his hands is the reason that stronger, lighter cyclists can sustain less saddle setback + more angle down. Physics.
On steep climbs where the front of the bike wants to lift off I totally get the forward saddle position. However, if it's followed by an equally steep descent... I'd be terrified.
Must be why Mohoric added a dropper post.
It's a road bike... There's not much to be afraid of
@@sugxi Care to elaborate? Granted, I'm not an experienced descender but braking on a steep downhill can be disconcerting even with a normal saddle position.
@@gaborozorai3714 just get back over the saddle if it's terribly steep/you're braking extremely hard. But generally imo having raced cx and mtb road descents aren't challenging at all unless I'm like supertucking until the last second or the conditions are terrible. As long as you ride around your skill level and don't like blow thru a hairpin u shld really be fine
@@sugxi Ok, I'm a pussy, but, as someone commented above even Mohoric used a dropper seatpost.
Redshift made the flip seatpost
Tilted saddle on mtb is magic but on the road it throws way too much weight and pressure on hands, shoulders and eventually neck
I'm going to cycle thru pain and reap the gain let's go baby
People trying to copy a 20 year old superstar in the World Tour is pretty silly. Pogi is in the 1% of the best athletes in the WT of already incredible athletes. Yes, we can learn something from them but I guess not eating too much/eating crap and drinking alcohol, riding our bikes consistently and not smashing the f out of ourselves every time is probably a good start and, lastly, enjoying ourselves by getting out and about.
Neill Stanbury: Variable Seat Adjuster . . . Matej Mohorič: 🤔🤨👂👀
What is that red and silver bike off to the side
It's the Elves
Falath Evo from Elves 👍
This is interesting because during the Your I found myself comparing Jonas’ for and position versus Tadej’s.
What did you think about both?
I'm sure people thought the first dropper seats were ridiculous. Now they're completely mainstream. Considering roadies face a similar issue, and the amount of money people are spending on their road bikes, I'll be shocked if someone *doesn't* develop something to sell to address it.
I’ve just realised….electronic auto adjusting saddles coming next.
Yeah, we should all have a 7W/kg FTP too.
Third Law. Second is f=ma (net force equals mass x acceleration).
😂 i actually advise old racers that are now dads/fatter/slower 🤭 to either start racing again or relax their seat position.😂 On a more serious note: eBikers do not need so much pedal pressure, so if you switch from a non-assited bike to an eBike relax your seat position and use a slighty wider saddle. ( you put more pressure on the saddle when not pedaling hard )
For 10+ years I've ridden with my saddle pointed slightly up. That's always felt like the right way for me. I was watching some videos about saddle tilt. Today I tried with my saddle entirely flat and man it felt wrong. At first, it felt weird from being different. But as the ride went on I could feel that was activating my muscles in an unbalanced way - doing too much work with glutes now. IDK whether I'll keep riding with it flat and see if it gets better over time, or just move it back to how I had it before. As I understand, the angle is changed for max power on climbs. I guess I could stop at the bottom of a climb if I'm really going for a KOM time, and tilt it down a bit. Otherwise it seems dumb to me for normal riders to tilt the saddle down
assuming your hips are normal.....
Me too, quite a bit in fact- GCN did a bit on this same subject a few days ago and are advising 2-6 neg angle for my saddle, I never feel like i'm actually sitting in it like that and the test is taking your hands off the bars as you pedal and seeing if you start sliding forward....
Same here, I always slide forward on a horizontal saddle. As I watched bike fitting videos I learned that my pelvis is rotated too far backwards. Rotating forward and straightening the lower back helps in several ways. You reduce the forward slide (sort of pushing your arse back rather than pulling it forward by arching your back), you engage the narrower part of your sitbones as is compatible with road saddles, and you also reduce the risk of neck and shoulder pain.
Woah, on the table right there, is that a coffee mug or a fkin sauce pan?🤨🤔 Neill, you need a coffee cup fit!😂😂
It looks like the right size to me
Looks massive
This kind of seatpost does exist. It’s made by Redshift
I remember back in the days suspension forks on MTBs could be lowered for climbing, achieving basically the same. For some reason I did not hear any good explanation for yet, it felt like your brakes are dragging when the fork was lowered. Like instantly slower. Which makes me think I would not want that on my road bike.
In summary; another thing a super-pro does that muggles probably shouldn't.
Again, cycling fans experience a golden fish memory syndrome. Fabian Cancellara started this trend of riding 0 raise handlebars on TT bikes. And everyone has followed suit later to realize this position serves well only to Cancellara himself and nobody else. Now, Pogi with his seat angle. Use your brains, people. Set up your bicycles the way that will benefit you and your riding style. Cancellaras and Pogis will do their thing.
Not quite,this aspect of bike fit is often overlooked and many bikes remain set up as they did on the shop floor. This is a needed discussion and may provoke some to tinker with fit for the betterment. It's a game of mm's.
Loading the front of the bike that much could also compromise the handling.
So unless you are an elite performance cyclist who could compete at the highest level - don’t do it!
Imagine the laugh Pogacar has at these videos completely over analyzing and over complicating his bike setup. If the equivalent of a bike fitter existed in athletics, Michael Johnson would never have stood a chance. A “Gait fitter” maybe. Human physiology cannot be standardised, no matter how much “the science” tries to convince us otherwise. Trial and error to find what works individually is the only way. But that doesn’t sell as being “professional”.
Pogacar IS CONSTANT with his position, not twisting with it as you say, as Peak Torque is saying. Weird you're talking someone else words for granted... Do and talk about your own homework, please. Thank you. Great videos overall ;-)
How do you know though?