The Truth About Colonialism with Nigel Biggar
💥Join us on our Journey to 1 Million Subscribers💥 Nigel Biggar CBE was Emeritus Regius Professor of Moral Theology at the University of Oxford and Distinguished Scholar in Residence at Pusey House, Oxford. He holds a BA in Modern History from Oxford and a PhD in Christian Theology & Ethics from the University of Chicago. His most recent book 'Colonialism: A Moral Reckoning' was initially accepted by Bloomsbury, who later changed their mind claiming "public feeling on the subject does not currently support the publication of the book". The book was ultimately published by William Collins and has become a Sunday Times Bestseller.
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Stand-up comedians Konstantin Kisin (@konstantinkisin) and Francis Foster (@francisjfoster) make sense of politics, economics, free speech, AI, drug policy and WW3 with the help of presidential advisors, renowned economists, award-winning journalists, controversial writers, leading scientists and notorious comedians.
00:00 Intro
01:40 The Case Nigel Makes in His New Book
04:53 What Are Empires & Why Do They Exist?
09:06 The Way History is Discussed Today
12:55 Slavery in the British Empire
18:52 The Transportation of Slaves
22:38 Should we Sympathise with Critics of the British Empire?
26:51 Society’s Warped View of History
33:59 Nigel’s Thoughts on Western Intervention
37:52 How Many of Nigel’s Ideas Come From Academia?
42:56 Sponsor Message: Locals
45:14 Why Legitimate Analysis of the British Empire Gets Cancelled
53:18 When Publishers Decide Certain Books are ‘Unacceptable’
1:02:41 What’s the One Thing We’re Not Talking About?
WATCH exclusive bonus content where *Nigel* answers audience questions. CLICK the link: triggernometry.locals.com/ CHAPTERS 👇 00:00 Intro 01:40 The Case Nigel Makes in His New Book 04:53 What Are Empires & Why Do They Exist? 09:06 The Way History is Discussed Today 12:55 Slavery in the British Empire 18:52 The Transportation of Slaves 22:38 Should we Sympathise with Critics of the British Empire? 26:51 Society’s Warped View of History 33:59 Nigel’s Thoughts on Western Intervention 37:52 How Many of Nigel’s Ideas Come From Academia? 42:56 Sponsor Message: Locals 45:14 Why Legitimate Analysis of the British Empire Gets Cancelled 53:18 When Publishers Decide Certain Books are ‘Unacceptable’ 1:02:41 What’s the One Thing We’re Not Talking About?
Imagine how this conversation might have gone down if it was on TV. It would be a stream of accusations, interruptions and fake disgust.
What did the British fighting Nazis get them other than being called racist and being replaced in their own homeland? Not to mention allying with the communists to get the win ended up getting minimum 45 million Europeans killed.
09:10 re Russia/Ukraine - is your guest aware that many Ukrainians identify as Russian and support Russia. Over here it's mildly humorous listening to people digusted that many of our refugees from Ukraine, speak Russian, Support Russia and Putin.
35:00 some good pushback lads, a very tame reply from your guest. Based on some people, today the global democracy is backing Russia v Nato. The guests opinions I'd say are outdated somewhat.
One omitted factor among the causes of abolition is that the burgeoning Industrial Revolution and the more modern ways of organizing labor that had been developing from the Middle Ages into early modernity make it conceivable to imagine a world in which slavery wasn't normal and wasn't a necessary evil. It wasn't completely brought about by the trends among philosophers, ethicists, and other intellectuals.
As a Nigerian, my opinion on colonialism will be more nuanced than that of most westerners. On one hand, it was brutal in some ways but on the other it did play a huge role in bringing much of Africa into the modern age via introduction of modern tech, medicine, western education, and nation building. My country literally wouldn't exist without the British. For all the issues we face, most of us wouldn't ever dream of not having a country of our own. Also, one major good it did was abolish slavery. I cannot be more thankful for the British using their naval power and economic might to suppress the slave trade in Africa. Oh, I know they partook in it for a time, themselves, but it existed here long before whites ever came to Africa. Even my own ancestors of the Edo kingdom were slavers. What makes the British different is that unlike other regional African and Arab powers, they had the cultural & religious framework, wisdom, humanity and courage to actually stop the evil of slavery even at huge cost to their economy.
My parents country was colonised thank God It would have stayed backward if not.
@Remain Nameless you are in luck actually because everyone can come together as one to hate on the French!
@@remain_nameless Friend, very well put. Your point about having a balanced and objection discussion about the history and topics is one that most people will agree with.
@Remain Nameless couple of things: 1) what's the Anglo-British War? 2) In terms of monetary outcome, the colonisation of Africa proved to be a net fiscal loss for Britain, so not much in the way of benefits economically for Britain, which was already a powerful (the most powerful) and wealthy (the most wealthy) nation on the planet at that point in history (later 19th century).
India had 26% of the worlds GDP before the arrival of the Brits and was producing high quality steel before the Brits even thought of it.
In the US, I ask young adults "When did the Atlantic Slave Trade End" and I almost always get a date in the 1860s, when it was actually made illegal by both England and the US in around 1808. I also ask if women and blacks were allowed to vote in the US in 1789. Young adults always say no, but voting rights were by state in the US and some states allowed widowed women of property and free blacks who paid taxes to vote. History is being taught with an agenda, kids are being lied to by omission.
That's probably because they are mistaking the end of of the Atlantic Slave Trade with the date it was abolished in United States, which is 1865. However the horror didn't end with Slavery. It continued for decades due to freed slaves Slaves who were not able to vote, not able to won own property and used as cheap labour. In Trinidad Black people were not able to vote until 1945 because of a Fear that if ex-slaves were granted the right to vote, they would begin to force the cruel plantation owners to pay their workers who were ex-slaves what they were worth. Unfortunately the end of the Atlantic Slave Trade was not an end to the cruelty and oppression of the people who were enslaved. Sadly the frequency of your unfortunate experience is likely increase with time. The teaching of Colonialism and the Slave Trade has always been mediocre at best. And the new movement to Ban the teaching of Slavery and the Racist Ideology that enabled it by Republicans such as Ron De Santis will only increase the chance that you will meet people who have an inaccurate knowledge of the Trans Atlantic Slave Trade : (
As a BW, I'm thankful 🙏 ✨️ 🙌 😌 4 colonization BM can't run or build sh*t! In addition to their overwhelming violence against BW& BG's. Nonblack mn ARE simply better at getting ish done!
And yet there were slaves in the US and England. Unaliving is "illegal" yet events such as lynchings occurred in which mainly blks were targeted. That was as recent (on record) in the 1950s/1960s. No one is a hero after causing the problem. The damage has already been done.
@@garveycampbell80 Yeah that all goes without saying. Of course it’s not as simple as saying “ok, you’re free. Good luck out there.” I’m not sure what your point is. Society is complicated? We know. Actions have consequences? Again, we know.
@@garveycampbell80 In 1807, Congress enacted a law to “prohibit the importation of slaves into any port or place within the jurisdiction of the United States ... from any foreign kingdom, place or country.” The ban took effect on Jan. 1, 1808. While the US federal government ratified the 13th amendment in 1865, Massachusetts became the first state to abolish slavery in 1783. Our children should be taught this timeline of history, and not the 1619 project version, which is anti-historical.
We are vastly outnumbered by the willfully ignorant.
Thank goodness for scholars like him for bringing a calm common sense to history.
William Wilberforce, member of parliament, who was the leading force for ending slavery in the British empire. Great man.
I too am shocked that a publisher would think that Nigel Biggar's book would be unfavourable in respect of public feelings (which members of the public?) - absolutely would not agree, I bought the book a few weeks ago and it is an excellent book. Pleased to see his book is selling well!
I disagree with him, but opposing voices should be heard and defeated in argument, not cancelled.
Me too--I've just pre-ordered a copy here in the USA.
I’ve read it, and is one of the most even handed, discussions of the subject I have read.
The logic is that only books which the portion of the public which is hostile to balanced assessments which it doesn’t agree with should be published.
Without colonisation most Africans alive would not exist
We think slavery was dreadful because we were the first or near first to recognise the fact and were by far the most diligent in stamping it out.
Are you serious?
Who’s “we”? I’m pretty sure you weren’t even born wee man 😂. You and I had nothing to do with slavery’s initiation, continuance, or abolition. We simply did not exist, so get off your high horse. It’s like you’re virtue signalling that “we” somehow abolished slavery like you’re on some superhero team 😂
If there was a problem with colonialism. Is that it's allowed people to say they have a right to enter western democracy based on this practice. In reality it's just a way to enter a country and sit on their back-sides to claim benefits off people ancestors who were equally used as a quick way to make a profit from.
Also, it was not Britain that first had the capacity to move slaves long distances, including across water. Shocked the obvious example of Rome did not occur to anyone in this discussion. Slaves from every part of the Empire were to be found everywhere else - including people from Britain. Taking slaves in Africa or Germany and selling them off in Britain or Spain, or vice versa, was business as usual for the Romans. Also, even if you give the argument that Britain was uniquely successful at the slave trade, the opposite is also true. The same drive, organization and economic/military power that made Britain successful WITH slavery, made fighting it possible. Without one, you could not have had the other. Weird how modern slave states like China get a pass for what they are doing NOW, for things we all benefit from directly or indirectly. That never gets mentioned by these same people - because the goal is not "justice", it's to tear down the West. All it's going to do is wear out guilt and compassion in our society, and raise up such a storm of anger and resentment in the mass of normal people that a sharp turn to the Right will become inevitable. It's already under way.
@@albertenvajohannes2649 hmmm france and Britain aren't really innocent
This is happening because of Freirean praxis which made world wide. In Brazil we are taught that Brazil (And Latin America) is poor because of European colonialism. I was sent to the principal’s office and suspended in 7th grade (1997) because I asked about the slave trade ending in America and England but continuing in Brazil. I got 4 days suspension for “Disturbing students who wanted to learn.”
Ps. I went to a private catholic school and had two marxist teacher, a priest and a nun.
Oh yes I encountered a lot of Paolo freire from latin American profs around 99/00. It takes a while to figure out the political aspect because they don't teach that directly to the kids
Ten times as many slaves went to Brazil as went to North America.
Were it not for European colonialism, Latin America would resemble places like Haiti or Ethiopia, neither of which had much colonial input
@@colinwoodbridge493? Haiti is in the Caribbean Islands, it was literally a colony, the first to get independence after USA. Ethiopia was actually the last place to be colonized in Africa, by the Italians, in the 1930s.
A very interesting interview. It made me remember the great Monty Python bit from "The Life of Brian" what have the Romans ever done for us? Amazingly funny and easy to find on utube.
It's a shame people like Stan aren't interested in what the Romans did for us. He just wants to indulge his absurd fantasy of being a woman called Loretta and having babies he can't have.
I made this comment independently lol
In the 1970's I worked as a Junior Engineer Officer for a shipping company that traded ships down West Africa. Our engine room head man was from Sierra Leone, as were the rest of the engine room crew. He was quite well known in the fleet as his name was John Bull. I was just chatting to him one day and he made a comment that stayed with me. "Our country was so much better when it was run by the British, Independence has not worked for us at all" If you look at how the country is today, you can only agree.
Untouchables in india have same sentiments.
There are some nations that are simply not mature enough, educated enough and overall capable enough to run a country on their own; and to morons going to accuse me of racism, this has nothing to do with race OR Britain. My own country, Croatia, is going through these exact issues and drowning in corruption and cartelisation of politics. Every time the country was either independent or in some form of balkans-based union, it was collapsing. The moment Austria or Italy took control of all or a part of it, it started to prosper. It can't be a coincidence, can it? It can't be the British or the French or the Russians or the Germans and 30 years later it's not serious to say it's the communists, either, is it, that we're the arsehole of the EU? It's US, we're fkken incompetent. I think the real problem is, MOST people(s) cannot face their own incompetence at least to the point of admitting it. All the whinging and whining about how it's colonialism why they're still poor? Yes but the British have been gone cca 100 years. What ever the damage they did was LESS and also way less recent than the damage WW2 did to Japan and Germany, care to compare yourselves to those two countries today? What's your excuse then? Other than incompetence? Black people in America, crying for reparations claiming their ancestors being enslaved 200 years ago is why they make up 64% of the jail population. Yes, but the ancestors of European Jews were gassed murdered and done far worse and far more recently, and so why aren't European Jews making up 64% of European jail population? Instead they're making up a good percentage of European business population. It's strange isn't it? It's bloody strange how people who work hard and focus on prosperity actually prosper.
@@codinghusky5196 I agree with every point you make. I sailed with a number of "Yugoslavs" when I was still at sea. I cannot now remember which parts they where from, but again the comment of one of them sticks in my mind. "When Tito dies, the country will break up and when it does, I want me and my family well away from it". Very prophetic words.
@@codinghusky5196 culture makes a big difference. It's like the software running on the human brain. Some beliefs, behaviours and attitudes create more success than others. Jews, Japanese, Germans etc are cultures that encourage consciousness (education, employment, entrepreneurship) and relative social harmony.
Would that be “ditto” for other former British colonies?
What a terrific interview...my first introduction to Nigel Biggar and I appreciate his fair, even-handed, honest, and moderate take on Colonialism. Thank you for the interview.
when we get an actual scholar
"In an abandoned camp they found some meat roasting in the fire. It turned out to be the leg of a Comanche. The Tonkawas, known for their cannibalism, had been preparing a feast. This sent the Comanche off into a fury of vengeance, and they persued the Tonkawas: We, (the Comanche), scalped them, amputated their arms, cut off their legs, cut out their tongues, and threw their mangled bodies and limbs upon their own campfire, put on more brushwood, and piled on the living, dying, and dead Tonkaways on the fire. Some of them were able to flinch and work as worms, and some were able to speak and plead for mercy. We piled them up, put on more wood, and danced around in great glee as we saw the grease and blood run from their bodies, and we were delighted to see them swell up and hear the hide pop as it would burst in the fire." (Herman Lehmann, Nine Years Among the (Comanche) Indians, 1870-1879, p. 155)
I was doing genealogy research for my wife (1/4 card-carrying Cherokee) and one of her remote ancestors, a Yorkshire army major stationed in what is now South Carolina, was tortured, mutilated, and burned alive by Cherokees as part of a revenge ceremony. (Oddly, that man's son married a Cherokee.)
Yeah this narrative about the "poor peaceful natives" that we just slaughtered always irritates me. Many, many tribes were far from peaceful, and had been fighting amongst themselves for as long as Europe had been fighting amongst themselves. Some were still performing child sacrifice when the first Europeans started landing over here. No offense to anyone, but there's a reason they were called savages, because many of them were. We didn't even know they were here. I'm not saying wrong things didn't happen because they did, but it basically boils down to they brought knives to a gun fight, at a time when everyone in the whole world was fighting for territory and resources, even them
@@jennh2096 It's increasingly difficult to find examples through general searches, but if you check in books or email a historian you can find excellent examples of creative savagery from North American natives (and, ya know, literally any other group practically). The "Darkening Ceremony" of the Cherokees is one such example. The modern Cherokee Nation government has of course gone woke - though the average tribe member is gun-toting, bible-thumping conservative.
The British did far worst to the Irish for hundreds of years….
Before western colonialism.... there was every other culture colonialism.... from west came modernization, freedom speech, science progress. Modern technology
Western colonialism is very much alive and exponentially more powerful today.
West stole much of brains from d world, rebranded it as own. Even western calendar is Egyptian.
@@RojaJanemanYou neglected to give examples pg your pathetic claim..... Because you have none.
I bought Nigel Biggar’s new book on Audible. I’ll buy the paperback version as well. As a Brit with a Gujarati wife, who’s father fled Uganda, Mother left Kenya and ended up in England. i’ve found myself quite interested in India, it’s history and the impact of colonialism. I’ve also spent several Months traveling all over India and meeting people along the way. My in-laws have spoken about What it was like growing up in Africa. Ten years ago we visited Nakuru where her mother grew up. She couldn’t believe how much it had changed from when the British were there. I have no doubt about the extent to which the historical revisionism of the west has been maligned.
Changed for the better or worse since the British left?
@@cameronblack7984 Worse. The deprivation was quite obvious.
@@quercus21 - since they live to hate British imperialism, then their destruction of all things colonial like the roads, the train systems, the financial systems, accounting systems, etc. is expected. The reset is what they wanted and got: squalor and despair. Excellent!
If our confidence in Western values is shaken then we hesitate to defend them. Do we still meaningfully hold our governments to account? Are they still truly limited by the law? We should stop obsessing over the failures of the past and start recognising that the modern West has been betraying its own values. Instead of taking a critical look at our history, we should take a critical look at our present. We should not stand in judgement of our forefathers - we should consider how they would judge us.
Yes, the very significant point where I would disagree with Prof. biggar is that the West 'is better'. Values-wise, perhaps yes, but we cannot defend democracy, freedoms, limited government and so on, because they simply don't exist. The whole Maidan coup in Ukraine, lockdowns, censorship, the proposed 'online safety bill' (and US 'TikTok' ban), ANPR, limits on right to protest, Candian trucker bank account seizures, Twitter (and Facebook) US government collusion and censorship; and Biggar wants us to stand in criticism of Putin's Russia? Not sure the West can any longer claim a high moral ground there - but the pushback needs to be to resurrect and reinforce those values.
Well said ❤
British history writer Giles Milton's White Gold book is an excellent retelling of Thomas Pellow's story: 11 year old boy from England who ended up as a slave for over 20 years in Morocco. I wish you guys could interview him, even though it's not one of his recent books. Great read.
Read it. Made me glad I wasn't born in that time.
Among the examples of ignorance or deliberate malfeasance in the debate over the slave trade and colonialism is that the left in general is 100% onboard with the notion that the Arab slave trade, where the castration of every African male to be sent to the Middle East had a 90% mortality rate among those captured, shouldn’t be either discussed or regarded as a big deal. In a similar manner, there’s not a peep about the fact that the first of those nearly universally demonized Crusades was preceded by more than 400 years of islamic imperialistic jihad. Such topics must be kept off-limits to discussion, lest they could lead to the inevitable and well-deserved crumbling of the shaky foundations of the houses of lies upon which many leftist narratives have been built upon.
And still sending castrated slaves across the sahara to Saudi Arabia right up until the mid 1960s !! Any babies born to the women had their skulls smashed.
Add to that the silence on the huge numbers of white slaves taken from Ireland, the south of England, and Scandinavia by the Ottomans.
Answer is Arabs frankly just ignore the Left. The Arabs with oil and petro wealth swing more power and are not easily influenced or fooled. The other items left out is the various Islamic invasions into Persia, India, and China. There were also considerable history of Islamic armies invading Europe over 100s of years.
In fairness the British did interfere with some very quaint local traditions in the Colonies --- like FGM - Female infanticide - Suttee --- Goebbels would have been proud of the work of these insidious brainwashers of young gullible people.
There have been genocides of large magnitudes all over the world since 4 BCE. In America, the Irish were not enslaved but willingly immigrated here as indentured servants. Similarly to the Mexican cartels that smuggle in illegals by making them work until they pay off their debts. The Irish have assimilated into “White’” culture and today, they perceive their history as American history. Enslavement of Africans in America is not so much about enslavement which happened universally throughout history. It is about the wealth of the United States and how the institution of slavery contributed to creating the most powerful economy in the world. We should understand our nation from that grounding point.
Just ordered my copy in the US. As mentioned in this interview, many of the 'grown-ups' today were hippy/pseudo-marxist/anti-colonial/post-modernist activists in the 60's, many took over positions in academia, the media, politics, and the corporate world, and they've raised children for whom these perspectives are a new religion.
This is so outside of what my knowledge of history has told me that I''m going to have to do a lot more digging into the matters raised. He's a very persuasive professor.
Start with a search for the Arab Islamic slave trade
Kudos to you.
Thanks for a great interview ... and for an introduction to Nigel Biggar 🙏
Such a good interview - some common sense at last at the "story" of Britain - AT LAST !! I am sick and tired of being tarred with the "racist" label for doing what every other nation did. Thank you.
Yes a good interview, BUT personally I'M getting sick and tired of them trying to hold US alive today personally accountable for the deeds of people who lived two and three hundred years ago........who were simply doing what the rest of the world was fully engaged in doing themselves and which was considered normal in them days. What these lefties are careful to leave out of the blame and shame narrative is that the British and most other western Countries merely BOUGHT slaves captured and sold by OTHER AFRICANS and brought to the coast to sell WE didnt capture them ...but I dont see any leftie marxist wanting to admit to that OR give ANY credit to the British for forcebly ending the entire disgusting trade virtually single handedly to MUCH hostile resistance by the rest of the planet. - When the descendents of the African slave traders themselves on the African continent are called upon to pay "reparations" for slavery.....then come and speak to US about it............until then I feel NO moral obligation to be ashamed for what a VERY small, already rich percentage of my Country(and others) did three hundred years ago, as if I am personally responsible.
Not every nation enslaved people. It was outlawed on the island of Korcula circa the 1200's and in Ragusa (Dubrovnik) outlawed in 1416. More nations in Europe did not partake in slavery than those that did.
When you argue that people should be grateful for colonialism that you deserve the racist label
@@ToriZealot Who is arguing that?
@@douglasherron7534 why do people list all the good things colonialism brought them? Because being unfree was not so bad?
I'll be buying his book on principal as this professor needs support.
Excellent conversation with a brilliant man! 👏🏽 my Indian ancestors were brought to Africa by the British. They worked as indentured labourers on sugar plantations. I don't feel any animosity against Britain whatsoever! I think having a clear, balanced view of Empire is essential if we are to avoid repeating past mistakes. Of course, there was much the British did that was unconscionable, such as siphoning off wealth and disenfranchising an entire nation. But even Marx admitted that colonisation had its advantages, the railway, telegraph system, structures of governance, etc. The point is that it's in the Past, reparations have already been made, humanity has to move forward toward new horizons. Those that aren't with us are against us!
The argument that we must learn from history to avoid repeating mistakes sound plausible. But it ignores the cost of the narrative. Throughout the US, people of African descent hate people with white skin because they see them as complicit in some way with the transatlantic slave trade. To illustrate the absurdity - I was born in England, and always thought that the English were 'my people' who had done terrible things in the past. I found out recently that prior to 1940 - every single one of my ancestors, on all sides, was Irish. All of a sudden, I now see the English as being the people who oppressed 'my people'. Yet I am the same person, and so are they. --- The argument that we do avoid repeating mistakes by learning from history is risible. People repeat the mistakes from history constantly. A simple argument is the pursuit of the goal of socialism. And half of the students in the US believe in that goal on the basis that 'it will be different this time' "“Socialism in general has a record of failure so blatant that only an intellectual could ignore or evade it.”" - Sowell. I honestly think it is easier to take people on face value if you know nothing of history.
Syphoning off weath😂 Yeah, so we were supposed to build railways, roads, bridges etc for free?
@Th3_Gael nobody asked you to build anything, you shouldn't have been there in the first place! The infrastructure was built in order to siphon off wealth, not because you lot were so noble! Listen to Shashi Taroor on how the Indian economy went from 27% national GDP pre-colonisation to 4% post! It's ignorant people like you that make colonised nations hate their colonisers, then you complain about toppling statues.....
@@tonycatman The people who repeat the lessons of history may be those who profit from that repetition? Is it not the collective conscience of decency and fairness reflected in a search for truth and honesty to make legal the inequities of the past that moves us forward? Those nations that move forward with most ability are those that can fully own the inequities of their past.
@tonycatman if you're happy with half-truths and diluted history, that's your prerogative. Ignorance is bliss! Personally, I prefer the full picture. Then I make a conscious effort to integrate that knowledge into being a good human. There is nothing to be gained from hatred. Knowledge and forgiveness will help us prevail.
On the slave ships, Thomas Sowell points out that the crew of the slave ships died at approximately the same rate as the slaves did. Unsurprisingly, the people spending months at sea risking life and limb to buy slaves did not want the slaves to die before they could sell them. If you want to see true horror, look at the Ottomans, the French, and the Muslim countries who routinely used galley slave power for their boats. Galleys were not convenient for ocean travel so they were not used often in the Trans-Atlantic slave trade. I actually remember being shown pictures in my American schools of Ottoman Galley slaves but being told it was done by American slavers. I'd have to double check my old history books to make sure that's the case, but nothing would surprise me anymore. Life before the industrial revolution is just completely foreign to these people. If those at the time knew how to make life better for everyone they would have done it, but the solutions were and are not so simple.
British convicts were also being transported to Australia in harsh crowded conditions, over a much longer voyage, sometimes in converted slave ships. Do these people not count because they were predominantly white?
Love Thomas Sowell the great American philosopher who has no truck about telling The Truth. He opened my eyes regarding the importance of testifyable research in the pursuit of our human history. The more I learn; the more history (altho not always pleasant) does reflect the times, and identifies the progress humans have made (progress is questionable in some cases).
It is rather startling to me that in the West 'history' is reduced to 'colonialism' and 'whiteness', and these last to slavery. The events of history, the characteristics of the world's civilizations; their art, the history of ideas, religions, are filled with riches, errors, beauty, brilliance, horrors, courage, about which most today know nothing. This will be to our peril, especially in the West.
Thomas sowell series about this topic, conquest and cultures, migration and cultures, race sns cultures really is good too.
Excellent discussion, informative and objective. Those "junior employees" working at the publishing house do not represent the "public feeling" - how arrogant and entitled of them to decide what the public wants!
A fabulous interview! We need to hear more voices like Professor Biggar's. I am afraid that the extreme left will do nothing but embolden the extreme right. If we are to move forward with a better world, we need nuanced and honest voices like his to balance the scales without overcorrecting.
Superb discussion, a balanced approach to the injustice of the past.
When you criticise your own society, you actually give the impression that you are better than the people around you. It is a status game.
Very good point. You see it in the critics who are very capable of dishing out scathing criticisms but who never have any solutions. An even-handed approach would be more collaborative, acknowledging the issues and working together openly to find solutions. Wait a minute... Look up there, in the sky.. It's a pig! He's flying!
True, but it goes deeper than that. Woke ideology, which is cultural Marxism, is trying to implement a Mao style cultural revolution and the first thing they are doing is for the West to hate itself.
It may be interpreted as an impression, but that does not make it so. I am very patriotic, but can criticize my country on many, many accounts. I am not saying that makes me better, of course it does, as I would not do what they did, if given a choice - but, it is history, done by others, and I have an opinion, condemning it. I don't mean to insinuate I am an angel, but, they did wrong, pure and simple, as happens in every culture and country.
that only works, on some of the ppl, some of the time.
That's something I experienced a lot with a German friend. When you first talk to them you'd think they really look down on their country, but as you said it's a mere status game when you look closer. They'll for example praise another culture in a very superficial way and say "I wish we had that in Germany", or "so and so is terrible in Germany" but then when I tried to actually criticise the German society and provide examples from other cultures that were pretty serious (not just superficial) they become very defensive and lost. They're so used to thinking that they're the best 'by default', so they don't mind criticising some minute superficial things (where they knew they were still the best). Once you face them with actual facts that show them "you're not really the best, here's why" they get really lost because it doesn't suit their world frame. I realised that my friend is actually kind of supremacist in a very dilute, indirect way that they probably don't even notice themselves.
Biggar is best ! Excellent discussion. Facts and history together, thank you Triggernometry 🙂
I'm going to buy this not just because it sounds like an interesting but to piss off the publisher that refused to take it on.
A great guy. Amazed he has an academic career in the present climate of anti-rationality.
Retired high school teacher - those parents can’t say no to their kids because their parents didn’t say no or discipline them either. Discipline is the foundation of learning and accomplishment; we have clearly lost our foundation in the west. I never had a parent ask me that but I have had to suggest simple things like homework expectations; checking on-line grades for parents. Kids mature by meeting expectations. The phone use is going to be the end of us.
I just pre-ordered his book (I'm in the US). The publisher that cancelled him, Bloomsbury, should be avoided.
Nigel handles the ignorant arguments very well through utter contempt and calmly stating facts.
Hear, hear. He speaks lucidly and beautifully.
@@thecommonword6996 Indeed. He's very good at picking cherries.
@@minkleymcmoo5248 A serious problem with this debate is that nobody does the ground-level conceptual work, that is, nobody asks what it means to evaluate empires or states. So, we know what it means--at least roughly--to morally evaluate individuals; it's not easy, but we know what it means: putting their actions in the context of their knowledge, motives, aims and character. We also know what it means to to evaluate the effect of some entity or phenomenon. But when we come to empires and states, the result is often a haphazard mix of both evaluative styles.
Thus, it is common to find critiques of empire dismiss good things done (infrastructure, schools or hospitals built; enforcement, in the British case, of the ban on the slave trade) because, it is alleged, these things were done for selfish reasons. But it is far from clear that such considerations of motive are relevant.
@@thecommonword6996 this is a stupid argument. The British never went into Africa or the Caribbean with the intention to build it up for the people living there. They went there to subjugate and exploit. Praising the British for leaving infrastructure behind is tantamount to praising a burglar because he dropped his personal jewelry in your bedroom while fleeing.
Have just bought the book Colonialism A Moral Reckoning on Kindle £12.99 and I look forward to reading it.
You guys really find interesting people. Great interview.
Thank you Nigel!!! Brillant interview!!
Is it that the British Empire, was the greatest net force for good that the world has ever seen?
Absolutely !! Rule Britannia.
Modern people judge the British Empire by the values that the British Empire brought about.
This bloke has a superb, laid back, thoughtful and paced approach to being interviewed - a natural broadcaster? well he would have been, he's certainly now more KZhead than daytime BBC ........
According to Thomas Sowell, 14 million Europeans were taken into slavery in Africa and the Middle East. While 4 million were bad in the West, it's still a much smaller number. We don't hear about African and Middle East slavery because they either killed the slaves or castrated them.
It also doesn’t fit the anti western narrative
It was NOT 14 million. 1 to 1.5 million. According to Sowell and others.
It's not just aggressive entitled ignorant people pushing this, it's baked into our current state education system from top to bottom
'What I find fascinating about the past is its difference' - YES!!
The past is a foreign country: they do things differently there.
Us British had become comfortable and complacent with our history and completely forgot how to defend British history. Anyone educated from the 1970's onward where taught a very narrow politically corrupted version of history and as a result where unable to stand up to the onslaught. Fortunately we who where taught in the 1950 up to the 1970's are able to argue back. The fight goes on.
I'm curious, when it comes to British History what do you think you was taught in the 50's that I missed in the 90's/00'?
No. They have won It's too late for 70 year olds to do much about what is about to happen.
*"where" = were
Yes you must defend all the horror you inflicted upon the world.
The horror of stopping slavery? Did your country stop it? 🤣🤣
Great discussion so refreshing to hear a real academic speak !
Never simple: The American Colonization Society (ACS) was formed in 1817 to send free African-Americans to Africa as an alternative to emancipation in the United States. In 1822, the society established on the west coast of Africa a colony that in 1847 became the independent nation of Liberia. The treatment of these returning American blacks of the indigenous population is appalling, and should be taught in K-12, too.
Brilliant. As ever
It has been said that the winners write the history. We now live in a time when the losers of that history are rewriting everything they believe and hope is true.
Very thought provoking interview! Many media outlets could learn from this style of questioning! Kudos to both hosts and Nigel Biggar. It is deeply frustrating that some people chose not to give him the respect of listening to him properly, word for word. He's not a racist, he's just trying to be as scientific, thorough and balanced in his research as possible.
In society now, ideology is driving the narrative so hard it is riding roughshod over an examination of the facts in several areas and slavery is one.
Great shows guys. The cure for ignorance.
A very worthwhile conversation, thank you. A great guest, thank you. A rather crass comment from KK, though, about getting "a few more book sales off the back of this interview." I can imagine Sergei Brinn (spelling?) telling KK that he'll get a few more Trigernometry video views thanks to KZhead. Unnecessary. Thank you all, all the same.
Pre-Columbian Western Hemisphere was as terrible in its inhumanity as any place on the planet. Less than 50 years after Columbus, Cabeza de Vaca was captured by Indians and sold into slavery by them. The concept of selling humans to other humans existed before Western Europeans arrived. The English version was a bit more formalized and powered by technology, but no different in human character. Believing so would be racist.
few instances of slavery in history were as race-based as the trans-atlantic slave trade was. comparing all the form is what shallow-minded white nationalists say
Not just "as terrible", but the so called "natives" are often even more brutal and cruel. Just look at what the Aztecs has been doing to their neighbors, or the atrocities committed by the Apaches and the Sioux. Btw, many tribes surrounding the Aztecs actually sided with the Conquistadors because the latters were LESS brutal toward them. But of course the Western cultural marxists (I'm from China ) will not mention these basic facts.
The long march through the institutions explains how we got here.
wonderful stuff, well played
Christianity & western individualism had a lot to do with ending slavery..other cultures..islam in particular justified it
Actually David Starkey recons that modern anti black racism was born from attempts by the southern states in America (confederacy) to tie Christan values to justification for the slave trade. The Christian part of it, as ever is complicated. Xx
Islamic slavery was completely different though
@@OmarOsman98 how so?
@@McSnappples Slaves could own property, obtain political power, get married and pass on an inheritance to their children.
Great Video… thank you for introducing us to Nigel Biggar & his new book…Most humans only remember the bad things as it more painful than remembering the good things as it is less painful…. 🇨🇦
I just finished "Squadron - Ending the African Slave Trade" by John Broich about the Royal navy working to end the salve trade in the Indian Ocean ~ 1869. Excellent book and easy to read.
great to see this man back, just starting his book today! what good luck, thanks lads!
Nigel is excellent and I hope we get to hear more of him on other topics, religion in particular.
The past is who created so much of what we now know and benefit from, as well as created 100% of the current crop of people who literally owe their lives to the past.
In all the colonies, whether British, French, Dutch or whatever, the quality of life indicators (life expectancy, childhood mortality, crime, social mobility, education, etc.) worsened after they were "freed".
Look at the state of South Africa now, tells you a lot.
Definitely not. By that logic singapore, malaysia , India should have been in a much better position in 1940s.
@@darkcloud9053 Are you claiming that they didn't go through decades of chaos and mayhem after the end of Colonialism? They ultimately climbed out of the hole, for the most part, but the elites from those countries who are online nowadays and write KZhead comments tend to ignore or forget that most of their countrymen still live in abject poverty and often horrible conditions. Singapore isn't really a Colony. It was a British city planted into Asia where Asian people were living, thinking and feeling like British people, engaging in British culture and customs and it is the same with many of the wealthier cities in those former colonies (like Hong Kong or Shanghai). They stayed stable and orderly and secure because they kept the culture that was transplanted there from Europe. They only technically were "decolonized". I am talking about colonies that rebelled against the Euopeans and reverted back to a state and a culture they had before the Europeans came.
Haiti
All of them? Does that include the US?
Britain and Spain are both former colonies, themselves. Rome, France, the Moors...
Interesting interview. As I am historically interested and as the arguments of the anti-colonial movement & BLM are still en Vogue, I encounter them frequently. Therefore, I ordered the book, and I am looking forward to an interesting read. Cheers from Zürich, Switzerland:)
Just purchased your book, Sir. Literacy seems to be an afterthought these days.
Great interview ..very interested in his book
Why are we able to recognize the contributions of ancient empires like the Roman, Greek, and Persian but not more recent ones? The fall of the Roman empire is almost universally bemoaned among inelligenstia as the beginning of a dark age. Were these ancient empires maintained through diversity, equity, and inclusion campaigns? I do not think that anyone from a Judeo-Christian background can logically think that. The brutality of the Egyptians, Babylonians, Greeks, and Romans are fully described in the Old and New Testaments. Yet, we are able to acknowledge that these empires made lasting contributions to how we live, think, worship, and govern. For some reason the analysis of modern European institutions and individuals must fall under a good or bad binary. No human, country, institution, or empire is purely good or evil. I think we can agree on that. While I was with the United Nations Mission In South Sudan I worked a number of officers from the Indian Military. They seem to have a much more nuanced view of Western imperialism. Obviously they are proud of becoming an independent nation, their culture, and history, but at they same time were very practical in adopting and maintaining many of the institutions that made the British empire so powerful and efficient. In particular in adopting their parliamentary and judicial system, and military organization, training, and traditions. British counterparts joked that the Indian army was more British than the British.
As for diversity in the Roman Empire, when Rome fell to the barbarians, the Barbarians were already living inside the city walls as economic migrants.
@@grannyannie2948 There are soo many parallels with the fall of Rome and whats going on in the West vis a vis mass migration. If it isn't controlled it will destroy our civilisation like it did then.
You can’t judge the distant past events by today’s standards. You must judge by the standards of the day. Just as I don’t expect people from 2223 to judge our actions of today.
Does not judging past events by modern standards excuse Stalin?
@@freebornaiden7666 I see the argument. But, even by the standards of his day, Stalin behaved rather poorly. Ditto Hitler, Mao &c. That's why they were decried in their day. As was the slave trade in it's day. As we like to say - "It's a bit more complicated than that,,,"
If I were a senior manager at Bloomsbury, I would fire the “younger staff”.
Slavery was how work was done before the Industrial Revolution. EVERY culture engaged in slavery. The Feudal System wasn't called slavery, but it was essentially slavery, if you lived on a nobles land you were required to perform duties for that land lord including going to war if the noble required it. Many nations continued the Feudal System well into the 20th century. None of them were in the English speaking west.
Excellent interview
Fantastic as per Usual!
The 'English' in the 1400s did not 'invade' Wales. The Welsh aristocracy became vassals of the English monarch Æthelred with the advent of the Anglo Saxon's unification of the mainland of the British Isles south of Hadrian's wall. The Welsh from then on had princes not kings. Wales became a principality, a sub unit of a kingdom.
TGenetoc testing has proved that the English are broadly descended from the tribes the Romans conquered. I.e they are not very Germanic at all, they are mostly Celtic, half-brothers to the Welsh.
Thank you for your views. I would also say that "empire" was the institution that enabled the end slavery in vast parts of the world that, if left to their own device would remain being hundreds of small countries, fighting and enslaving each other to our days. I'm Angolan and Portuguese and I know that when slave trade was forbidden in Angola, the king of Congo, a Portuguese ally and protectorate, wrote to the queen of Portugal begging her to allow them to sell slaves for another 50 years on!
After watching this interview, I ordered two of his books: Colonialism and In Defense of War.
Excellent job lads.
I'm buying this book. The level of ignorance in the US and other western countries is painful and even enraging on occasion
Looking forward to this. Also would love to hear more nuance on Orientalism and Cultural Appropriation.
Seems odd that people get offended rather than flattered if others ‘culturally appropriate’ their customs…..and surely happens to some extent when people migrate.
@@theinngu5560 Only happens now though; until really very recently, it was called 'multiculturalism' and declared as a positive thing.
Today you are conditioned, compelled, even obligated to believe, internalize and expound your resentment, skepticism and distaste for your own ethnicity, country and family… What. Could. Possibly. Go. Wrong?
Brave gentlemen there. Thank you.
Here's one American who highly approves of your message! I really don't think, I know I am not alone. ~ Heather ~
Gonna go get his book right now....
Not all formats are available in USA/Canada yet. Kindle copies are available in USA/Canada. Paperbook now available in USA, but not in Canada until May 2023. Hardcopy will be available in USA in May 2023, but not until Oct 2024 in Canada. Singapore has developed at an amazing rate and I don't hear them complaining about their colonial past. I also listened to an older Chinese man in Penang Malaysia who credits education, construction, law, etc. to the British. If colonialization was so bad then why did India also keep so much the British left behind? I'm half Russian. My grandparents parents were small landowner farmers there. After that contact was lost with relatives. I wonder how many ended up in the Gulag for 'offending' authorities in one small way or another. Most of us have no idea what our forefathers went through. If we do here stories I'm sure much of the stories get distorted over time.
I miss the lighted plants next to the chairs. I hope you remember to turn them on each interview as it really makes a nice ambiance. Thanks for the interesting content you continue to provide. When will you visit Canada?
It’s entirely possible that certain guests might request the lights be turned off. Could be distracting for someone with sensory processing issues.
@@stvbrsn Had the light opposite the guest been turned off I could accept your reasoning but it was just the 2 plants with the little lights that were off. Probably just forgot. Anyway, just noticed it and missed them.
Great name for someone talking about colonialism!
If his first name was Bigel, we would be wise not to say his last name.
LMFAOROTFLSM 🤣
Can we get a list going of good, balanced history books ????? Please and thankyou!!!! *edited to add, even documentaries for folks who aren't readers'.
Avoid all Marxists' books. All. The sole moral behaviour of the Marxist is to lie to progress the revolution.
Anything from Thomas Sowell
Perhaps get reading lists for online courses offered by Hillsdale College(USA). Certainly not Howard Zinn dumpster fire.
Historian Victor Davis Hansen PhD
My regards to Mr Biggar for recognizing the strong opposition of Greeks to fascism and Nazism ❤ A part usually forgotten in history but without the bravery of Greeks and Albanians fighting fascist Italy would have won and support Nazism. Instead fascism was defeated and Nazis had to intervene, using up resources and getting delayed to their plans.
Thomas Sowell points out a group of countries that today are worse off, by nearly every social and economic measure, than the countries that were colonized, namely, those that weren't colonized. If we want to take a larger, older perspective, Britain itself, and thereby the entire Anglosphere, benefitted tremendously (and still do) from being "colonized" by Rome.
The Caribbean islands would like to have a word with you
This is going to be exciting!!!
Agreed. It looks interesting
Excellent .
The British Empires (Phases 1 & 2), & their ongoing legacies have made one of the largest contributions towards, while having recorded perhaps the most significant advancements in humanity’s social, scientific, technological, economic, cultural, judicial & political developments! These developments have had & are still having, probably the most singular, significant influential impact upon the ideas, affairs, wealth & wellbeing of mankind across the world, which have also proved to have had the most profound effects upon mankind’s overall affairs over perhaps the past two or three thousand years or more, on the world’s collective history, while further promoting the refining efforts & enhancing the beneficial effects of civilization in general during its operative lifespan & beyond it too!
Great interview
He's got at least one more sale as a result of this interview. 👍
Simply look at the direction of the “migrants” flow - it’s westward no doubt.
The main reason Britain abolished slavery is because of technology. It was the invention of the steam engine which could replace many slaves.
Britain deserves a lot of credit for banning slavery, for actively shutting down the trade. We can point to other examples even before the British empire. Queen Isabel of Spain decreed, back at the end of the 15th century, that all indigenous peoples living in the Spanish empire were to be treated as subjects of the crown; as citizens. They had the same rights, they ought to be educated, taught Christianity, and paid for their labour. Marriage between Spaniards and indigenous people was actively encouraged.