How We Solved The Home Wind Turbine Problem. Get an exclusive Surfshark deal! Enter promo code UNDECIDED to get up to 6 additional months for free at surfshark.deals/undecided Whenever I cover wind turbines many of you ask about what’s available for home applications. At the moment, I’ve got both good news and bad news. The bad news is that the current market for residential wind is…less than great. The good news? We have a lot of new innovations that look to improve it. The team behind the U.S.-based startup Harmony Turbines is hoping to popularize wind energy for the masses and allow them to have their iPhone moment. Plus, if you remember our video on Aeromine’s rooftop models from last year, we have an update on how its “motionless” design is progressing out in the real world. But of course, these are far and away from the only companies working on bringing wind power generation to our backyards. Residential wind has to have its moment someday, but when? Or should I say, “but wind?”
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I love my solar panels, but I would also love wind turbines. Especially today due to the snow storm, keep safe Matt!
great video. i am considering options for my house which is in a windy area. it would have been nice to understand costs of the devices. right now, there is no information about pricing and cost/kw...so it is impossible to consider. Do these companies even provide an estimate or ballpark? why keep it secret?
@@andyc3877 they're not manufacturing yet. I'm guessing they don't have a price.
@@ricos1497 thanks. i understood that, but i think the companies have a target range...like "we expect to sell this unit for around $10 when we scale up". i just hate it when price is not mentioned if someone is trying to convince us to give a serious thought
"You don't need a weather man to know which way the wind blows." Bob Dylan.
Savonius turbines look cool. If your neighbors ask, just tell them it's a kinetic sculpture. You'll sound so sophisticated.
It might make it easier to get a permit for it too.
G'day, Sophisticated, From Sophist, An ancient Greek school of Philosophy composed of Elegantly confected Nonsense..., after Sophocles...who founded the Movement. A Sophomore is someone starting their Second years of studying any subject - they know more than a raw beginner - but not a lot more...(Sorcerer's Apprentice-Effect). Sophomoric means Callow & immature... Sophisticated as a word meant Adulterated & Impure..., It was first applied to coloured Glass, or "Paste" Fake Artificial Gemstones...; which were Made by Adulterating Pure molten Clear Glass with Impurities..., to make it Coloured - Red or Green or Blue, Pretending to be Rubies, Emeralds, or Saphires... So, yeah, Sophisticated means Adulterated & Impure ; but it's Fashionable to pretend that such a Label is Complimentary...(!). Such is life, Have a good one... Stay safe. ;-p Ciao !
There are several approaches to integrate them into fences and sound barriers which is a really cool idea.
Hi, Warbles. Good to see you again. Thanks for setting the record straight. Modern English has a number of words which have reversed their meanings, or changed them considerably. Another one is 'fantastic'. @@WarblesOnALot
I used to work in the industry about 10 years ago, most of those turbines ended up just being kinetic sculptures anyway.
Yes, please, DO create more videos on residential wind power. There are so many wind power turbines you can find on KZhead, but getting reliable information on them is difficult. Some of the ones I am interested in are Liam F1 (Archimedes turbine), Solarwind Pro, Tulip wind turbine, and many others. It seems they keep popping up regularly. The Harmony turbine looks interesting for residential use. The Aeromine only seems practical for industrial or business applications. They don't seem practical for residential roofs. Please consider the noise level of the turbine. This will be an important factor in keeping the peace with your neighbors.
I don't know if it will help but i enjoy watching Robert Murray Smith, he's certainly knowledgeable and quite entertaining
@@greatscott369 but Robert doesn't bother with commercial wind turbines. He just makes his own.
I'll look these up ^-^
Also be very suspicious of anyone promoting roof-mount turbines who doesn't talk about vibrations and engineering. There's no point saving money on electricity if the turbine vibrates your house apart.
Some of them are ridiculously expensive for no reason. Like the f1 turbine. That is what I was told. I don't even think it is an installation issue either. Think it is 6,000 dollars for just the unit.
The big advantage of the Savonius turbine is obviously that it is independent of the direction of the wind opposed to the Aeromine system
Also the generator can be installed in a box on the ground, they don't need to feather in high wind, and they don't make much noise.
I thought the Aeromine turbine rotated. It doesn't move with the wind?
And has shit efficiency.
I disagree. I think the other system has just as much promise as it capatilizes on effects that are already being caused by human intervention in nature and uses natural amplification to drive up efficiency with a much lower baseline for wind speed. This application doesn't necessarily mean that it's going to be a better or worse design, but is more akin to having another specialized tool that achieves the same thing. It will come down to use case scenarios in which one design is clearly more advantageous than the other. In my humble opinion... I like have several kinds of screwdrivers when my simple objective is to drive in a screw... where the screw is located might make one screwdriver superior to the other choice. Like my analogy? lol
@@MladenMijatov the efficiency isn't a problem. It's made up for in reliability and resilience. Long term you'll pay less per kWh.
I've been keeping my eye on Harmony's progress for years and am still waiting to see some real-world data on power output vs. swept area and wind speed. Granted it's clever and looks really cool, but viability is still a major question mark in my mind. You might say I'm a bigger "fan" of the Aeromine approach.
Have you seen any real-world data on Aeromine? I haven't been able to find any and the company couldn't provide any when I asked a couple of months ago.
for years? How long does it take to build one of these? It's not rocket science
I’m so glad there are companies continuing to explore the needs of homeowners with “dirty” wind. We have no hope for solar and being in a steep narrow valley all we have is dirty wind.
Google how many workers they kill, industrial installers who are forced to climb these structures into the wind. More than the entire nuclear industry has ever existed, including Chernobyl and Fukushima. And add to that a huge number of birds, so huge that wind turbines have shaken entire ecosystems, allowing mice and rats to reproduce.
Same here. It's strong and dirty. Harmony is really appealing.
it does sound like a sort of niche solution, but if the niche is big enough, it still makes sense.
@@adddude7524 Absolutely. There are a lot of niches to be filled. If I could get 4kw a day from the gap between 2 houses with reliable small unit that is easily serviced, I would pay over the odds. I also have security of supply issues to mitigate. Winters are worsening year on year, Big Infrastructure cannot keep up.
@@adddude7524 The map at 16:07 suggests that most of the US is well-suited to Harmony's approach over traditional American wind turbines. While I'm no authority on niches in the market, I wouldn't call that a niche engineering-design-wise. The area useful for wind energy production using Harmony's Savonius Turbine approach is bigger than the existing useful area for wind energy.
I really like Harmony's approach to this and I hope Aeromine makes more headway too. We need more small scale wind production.
👍
Aeromine is an overcomplicated device which can harvest the wind only from one direction. Being overcomplicated and with a lot of pipes it must have also high losses even in optimal wind. It's just a BS.
@@orionbetelgeuse1937 Ah, yes. Clearly. They should've gotten your advice before funding and researching their designs. You are obviously the genius they desperately needed to help them.
No, we don't. We need things that work, not cult hysterics in support of things due to fear porn
The psychological impact of mass use would match the mental agitation of eco-doomsayers. Same begets same.
@ Matt...YES PLEASE could you please do a deeper dive into wind power in urban environments. I live in the city centre and due to our geography there is always wind blowing.
So happy to see harmony getting more exposure. I really think they've got the answer to wind generation for homeowners.
Yeah, I don't want a whole huge installation, and I'm not holding my breath for powering my whole home. But something small like that I can put in my yard to defray my electric costs a bit really appeals to me.
They don't but Tempest Energy Systems does... No, you won't find any info about them right now.
@@MrThedrachen would be amazing for powering the ac during a hurricane
Yes. Please do more on this field and on Harmony. And, thank you for helping to get the word out that the data on these designs is and has been wrong. This has been holding back progress for long enough, and I'm not convinced that it hasn't been on purpose.
Love to see Harmony turbines getting more attention, I've been following them for a while already. I love the design and how it's potentially still useable well beyond when traditional wind turbines have had to cease function. I actually had just watched this after watching a different video on building integrated PV panels, which makes me think of what it could be like to essentially turn a skyscraper into a power production facility, covering the glass with solar panels, using any maintenance floors as potentially giant airfoil's for Aeromine's style turbines, and I'd love to see Harmony style turbines running up the entire corner(s) of the buildings, just constantly feeding off of whatever prevailing winds are there.
@@BobDevV Do you not understand the sentence you quoted me?? There is no "making something out of nothing." as you put it, you're extracting the wind kinetic energy. The law simply states what goes in must equal what comes out, so while yes, their efficiency is low, they are still pulling a % of that wind's energy out and putting it into the building. It isn't being created out of thin air, (ironically) The wind would be have less energy, and the building would have a bit more than it did before. while impractical it may be, it wouldn't be for profitability. See, the way I see things, "profitable" is what's killing out planet. Not everything should be profitable. There should be some costs that are covered by the society that as a whole benefits from it. Things like public transportation (aka proper tram/train lines with supplemental busses) being heavily subsidized, installation of green technologies, healthcare, those sorts of things should be covered by taxes as they benefit the society as a whole. With transportation you don't need private vehicles, with green techs we won't be killing the planet and it will improve health, and that will make universal healthcare even cheaper, plus coverage for all means significantly cheaper costs per person. (talking to the USA populace here) Being so negative all the time isn't good for your physical and especially mental health. If the world wasn't so profit driven, we'd be more inclined to do things we're passionate about instead of being forced into terrible jobs we hate just because "it pays better". Our society based off profits is killing us.
profitability is not whats killing our planet profitability allows people to come up with cheaper innovation and cheaper things just look to air plane production over the years or anything else cell phones gotta cheaper why? because of profitability@@Fenthule
@@BobDevV The practicality in wind turbines is that they can harness energy when solar panels can't, such as overcast winter skies or at night. The Benefit of Harmony's design is that it's efficient at wind low wind speeds and can handle turbulence and variation that would force other turbines to have to shut down. In other words it garners efficiency due to being capable of operating more consistently and at a smaller scale. Generally speaking it costs almost nothing to build a wind turbine. The materials and energy necessary for their production are insanely cheap compared to the energy and materials necessary for a photovoltaic panel. The only reason solar is so cheap is due to cheap foreign labor and mass production. Realistically if your panels were made in the US or Europe they'd cost twice if not three times as much. Understand right now the majority of the costs associated with installing renewable energy is the home infrastructure. That is to say, installing the electrical controller, meter, converter and battery cell your panels or turbines hook into. If this was a situation where you were JUST doing wind power than yea it wouldn't be practical. But realistically, you'd be using both. With your panels being the primary energy collectors, and your turbines supplementing during days and times where your panels just aren't functioning as efficiently. Also you need to be REALLY careful when it comes to information involving renewables. There is strong financial and political incentive to keep domestic homes from being energy independent. It's why despite zoning and building codes being the fastest way to transition to renewables, neither have been touched or even talked about in the US. Both wind and Solar were invented as a means to power homes off the grid. That's their intended use case. And yet you see a strong government and commercial push for grid scale use. If that doesn't raise an eyebrow it should.
They'll never succeed, their turbine is far too expensive for the amount of energy it produces, and requires regular maintenance, as all small wind turbines do.
@@BobDevV I think you don't understand kinetic capture.
I've worked and talked with a few ranchers or well installers, and I've been told the cheapest most reliable way for pumping water for life stock was to use windpumps. So I'm surprised that there aren't more wind turbines for rural areas, especially when you consider how unreliable power could be in rural areas. When I worked on a ranch in South Texas, rain an hour away could disrupt power on the ranch.
when i installed my 7kW PV array, my electrical inspector here in New Mexico told me that the winds here will destroy pretty much everything except the biggest industrial turbines. It's also the case that although windpumps may have been the cheapest at one time, the dramatically lower cost of PV and batteries now means that this is not necessarily the case anymore. When you factor in the essentially zero maintainance for a solar-powered electrical pump compared to the potential hazards of traditional windpumps, it is clear why we don't see so many of the latter in this landscape any more.
Wind pumps make sense. The Dutch people used windmills many years ago to operate water pumps to drain their land.
> "I'm surprised that there aren't more wind turbines for rural areas...." It is because our (USA) economy is so adapted to fossil fuels, and the success of the RuralElectrificationAdministration in extending the grid to rural areas. IFF we adapted the CarbonTax proposed by Charles Shultz and James Baker III during the Reagan Administration, the advantages would be clearer. Of course, our oil&gas industry, and financial services industry, are opposed. Concerning 'wind pumps'. On farms & ranches, the "American Farm" style windmill were very popular for water pumping into the 1960s (linked to a sucker pump rod, over a well). The reputable American windmill manufacturer, Bergey Windpower Co., of Norman, OK, did an interesting experiment: they coupled their modern horizontal/propeller wind-electric generator to a submersible electric pump, and demonstrated the significant efficiency advantages of of a good aerodynamic driver (compared with the lower efficiency of the mechanical pumpers).
That's because Texas has it's own grid that the politicians pushed as saving money. The only people who made money was the politicians pocketing the bribes and the companies that wanted their own unregulated grid that fails whenever it gets cold. All those politicians should have been voted out and the companies held accountable to maintain the grid. Texas voters need to take their state back. I hope they start doing that in 2024.
Solar has replaced wind though
This is the second time I have come across Harmony, and found the other company very intriguing. Would love a deep dive on residential wind power.Very interested. Thanks for breaking these topics down!!!
Fluid dynamics is a trip for sure. I like Zipline's drone delivery approach with their engineers which is an "assume you know nothing" approach. They came up with a wind prop/blade design that is way outside the box.
There is a company in Europe (The Netherlands to be precise), called Ibis Power, that has a system similar to the Aeromine company you featured. The biggest difference is that they marry solar directly on top of their wind turbines. So when you buy there system you get both. They have been deploying them on tall buildings in Europe so far.
use solar to spin the blades so it looks like wind is working, genius
the turbine shown is the hivawt and the turbine guy on youtube has been installing them for a decade in usa
This is so cool. Where I live, solar is not an option (Quebec, you know, too far north). But the wind is blowing so strong, each day of the year... we have to really secure our winter car protections in order to prevent it to be blown away. 2 years ago, the wind was so strong that like 20% of all of them were blown or at least, partially detached. I'm even planning to plant a vegetal hay in order to limit wind damage to my fruit trees so they can grow more vertically instead of being pushed back. I don't know if they are looking for test beds, but this area is really well suited for it, especially because QC is not a traditionnal solar area.
Wrong. Southern England is at pretty much the same latitude as Quebec and you can get x thousand kwh per annum for an x kw installation, e.g. a 4kw installation will generate 4,000kwh.
Didn’t hear this mentioned in the video but one of the largest drawbacks to residential wind generation is the noise that most systems produce. Generally the higher the rpm the worse it is, especially if not maintained to laboratory standards.
and yet people WANT flying cars.
@@ThatOpalGuy regular cars are pretty noisy, that's a decent ceiling for a flying car
@@landoishisname Helicopters are flying personal transports and they're far louder than regular cars, especially modern cars driving at low/city speeds.
@@JWQweqOPDH Right but you don't have to make a helicopter to achieve flight
@@landoishisname All VTOL aircraft (besides blimps) are louder than a car of equal payload.
Would love to see more videos on niche wind power (roadsides, rooftops, urban canyons, etc.). These applications might never make sense in grid scale operations, but the long tail of wind could provide a significant amount of on-site generation for a distributed future.
Wind turbines one road sides actually generate their power and increase drag on passing cars. So it's a gas powered turbine. Urban canyons seem interesting but the buildings aren't rated structurally rated for the increased load both static and vibrational. The problem with the 'long tail of wind' theory is that you have to integrate that curve to find the area under it to get the energy you can harvest. And when you do that, it's very, very tiny. And to harvest that long tail you need very low friction bearings because the turbines won't spin due to the bearing friction at low speeds. BUT if you do that, then the bearings are subjected to much faster erosion from water and you're reducing their lifetime. It's like putting canola oil in a bearing instead of heavy grease. Source - I used to work in the industry and we had turbines fail for all the reasons above, both mechanically and from a business success perspective.
Hi Matt. A friend of mine just imported one of those tulip style vertical turbines to test to determine with our Cape Town wind, whether it will produce the results in generating power. The wind blows a lot here in Cape Town during the summer so a turbine solution like this, if all testing goes well, will be a game changer.
Sorry the savages screwed up your power grid down there.
@@EclecticBuddha no Buddha would invoke the karma of considering someone a “savage.” You use language unskilfully.
Yes--Cape Town has excellent wind resources! 😊
I'm in Cape Town, would love to hear the results. That southeaster has to be good for something!
Easy: low yield, high wear (by design)
Matt, I’m building a new home in Plymouth Mass and I am largely following in your steps with solar, Span entrance panel, back up batteries…. Located 1/3 mile from Cape Cod Bay and 160 ft up, we almost always get wind. Obviously, this probably makes my location a better than average one for residential wind. Keep doing what you are doing on wind. Could you add a segment on how to integrate solar and wind into a system of systems that work harmoniously? Thanks, love your channel!
Yes! Deeper dives please! Would be interested in if you are seeing options from Europe. Similar to parts of US Northern Europe sees a dramatic fall off in solar generation from late September (particularly here in Ireland) but we have no shortage of wind. Keen to understand more and thanks for being at the bleeding edge!
Matt, Robert Murray Smith did a wonderful series of videos about variable speed transmissions, with the intent to employ these in wind turbines of various composition (horizontal and vertical). This arrangement can be applied to deliver a steady stream of motion from an unsteady source--or, applied electrically, as in the case of a transformer, to exchange amps for volts, and alter the power delivery if that is what's required, rather like an infinite version of a ten-speed bicycle. Rather than reduce the rotation--in which you are losing the potential of that resource--you can simply convert this to another form if a variable speed transmission were employed. I wonder if there is a residential or small scale wind energy research team working on this concept.
I was just about to post this, Robert has a ton of great videos about different types of wind power!
None of Robert's videos seemed to include any data. Spinning does not equal any kind of useful energy production.
Please keep providing updates on development of wind power. They are appreciated. We currently have solar, but one can always use some extra energy! I also appreciate your updates on solar storage batteries.
Thanks for the video (update). There is no singular magic bullet for sustainable energy. Finding solutions that can be done in parallel covering multiple environments is awesome. The Harmony solution is very intriguing and I could see putting two them on our roof as soon as they are available. I hope they focus on simplicity to keep maintenance and manufacturing down. In aviation, we have leading edge slats on some airplanes that lower stall speed when deployed. The beauty is they automatically deploy at slow speed based on air pressure. No electronics, gears, motors, etc. Simple. Reliable. Effective .. and lighter and cheaper than an overly designed solution. Would love to see Harmony open and close using a similar approach.
Totally agree, basically use a mechanical governor to control the turbine! Or some other passive means of making it work.
@@slickfastyes, I just made a similar comment, mechanical governors have been around since the times of steam engines, "how do we stop it spinning to fast" is a solved problem... the real issue with residential turbines is that the vibrate causing noise in the house, and stress in the structure of the house.
If that is the case, simply place the turbine on a cushioned platform, a small version of the earthquake shocks uses in high-rises. @@danielr82
Very interesting, we live in the Swedish countryside and have a couple of possible places for wind turbines. Size isn't a big problem for us, we can put up at one or two where there are open fields outside our farm with decent wind quality I would think. We got our solar installation done with 42 panels on the south-facing part of our roof, but it wasn't finished until late autumn so we haven't seen its full potential yet (16.8 KW max according to specs). It truly is an exciting time for creating a more self-sufficient home (not only power and heat but also growing our own food) Keep the videos coming, I love them❤
Keen to have a pair of harmony turbines on my solar catamaran. Love the folding blade idea.
Another great video, thank you Matt. What I felt was missing was more data on how much power these turbines can generate, ideally compared to the output of a solar panel. That gives us a sense of how many one would need to power different types of buildings.
He didn't tell us because that would be ridiculously low power. I think the prototype they show could be around 500W maximum, but would really average 100W.
Surely not more than a kilowatt each. These things aren't taking in more energy than an ebike puts out per unit time.
@@niconico3907 Yep, there's a good reason average power output *in a real application* are never quoted, because they're dire. People would be much better off putting the same cash they would spend on this into a community buy-in battery or full scale wind project....
Wind is one of the technologies it makes sense to centralise production. Power scales massively with turbine radius and height above the ground. For horizontal wind turbines, blade area (and therefore power generation) quadruples if you double blade length (area = pi x radius squared). For vertical axis, it just increases linearly (area = blade height x arm length) Also, having heavy equipment spinning rapidly in residential areas just doesn't sound like a good idea to me, but I've not heard of any incidents yet (probably because these turbines are rare). There's a great community project in Bristol, UK, where a community has come together to pay for the largest onshore wind turbine in England. That kind of thing makes much more sense to me, as the turbine is placed away from the city. If VAWTs made sense they would have already taken off. I can see *some* potential for putting them on top of tall buildings, but that's clutching at straws.
Definitely interested in more on this topic, Matt Ferrell. On the grouping of vertical turbines, there was a study by a university in the UK that found that vertical wind turbines could be 'stacked' up to 8 deep and only lose 5% of the wind. Came out some years back (think I saw it on the BBC?) Funny thing is, I believe off-shore wind via utilities and distributed solar PV would be a better option.
I like the sound of the roof ones, especially if its found that having them closer together can actually improve them.
PLEASE keep us updated on residential wind power. I’m going to participate as soon as we know the 5 Ws. In my mind there is zero chance this is not the future for running our homes cleanly and efficiently. Thank you!
My dad put wind on his off grid cottage, and the problem was noise. We even looked for lower noise turbines. It ruined the peace, and we took it down. It was a ton of energy.
Our house is odd, we are a corner house at a crossroad of streets. We basically have wind funneled to us, kind of like a stream. It's been consistently windy since 2007 when we moved in. Right now, in 2024, it's absurd how windy it's been. I'm in NC. That whole thing with the Aeormine, is basically what's going on with my house. It funnels down the street, hit's a second stream coming from the side street, and then creates wild winds at my house all the time.
I’m in Texas and wind is gusting to near 40mph today so I love learning more about how to potentially harness it! Thanks!
Matt is the kind of guy who can put the wind in our sails! 🎉😊
Hi Matt... We have solar on our existing house but plan on moving to our lake house which funnels the wind coming down the lake. Harmony's design looks awesome for these gusting erratic winds. We also plan on solar and battery back-up so the combo could be a win win. More on wind please.
I live in South Dakota, and we have a lot of pasture wells with the towers from the "old west style" wind pump towers. The pumps have been replaced with electric pumps. This means they have a tower, and electrical connection.The idea of employing these existing infrastructure pieces to generate additional wind power has been bumping around my head for a while. Thanks for the informative video.
fascinating stuff! I live in Southern Alberta and it feels like its ALWAYS windy here. Being able to bring wind power from out on the foothills and into the suburbs opens so many possibilites!
Yes would love to see more on urban wind. We live in a 6 story condo with a lot of open park space around us. This would make us a great candidate to use wind. Just it would have to be hurricane resistant as we are in Florida.
As usual Matt, I enjoy your content. I am excited about wind turbines as I live on a 1.3 acre lot on top of a hill. The downside is that we have an abundance of trees, which blocks and / or causes swirling winds. I will continue to follow you to see the development of wind turbines. Keep the videos coming.
Appreciate the kind words. Hopefully there will be some good wind turbine options for you down the road. I'm excited to see how these develop.
Thank you for the great work. I would love more on the vertical urban rooftop wind turbines.
I live in the East hills of Silicon Valley and have thinking about something like this for years. Have solar. Would like to add wind too, as in the rainy season get significant wind here. Glad to hear this is being worked on.
I've been looking into this for over 20 years, ever since Honeywell was trying to market their shaftless turbine. I think vertical axis is a much better solution for the small generators, and Harmony looks very interesting. One issue I've run into is that the makers of PV controllers, like Enphase, do not support the connection of turbine output to their convertors. If you have a PV system and want to add wind, there are no good solutions on the market. Any info on this would be welcome.
have you checked marine units?
Get two charge controllers - one for the PV array, the other for the wind turbine. Make sure both controllers are rated for the DC voltage your system uses. Hook both up to the same battery. The battery doesn't care if it is charged by DC from a wind turbine charge controller or by DC voltage from a PV charge controller. The inverter will then produce AC from the battery.
@@wkgurr If you're not careful with that, the two charge controllers will fight each other. The sector really does need a charge controller that can take in power from multiple sources and use all of it, not just whichever single source has the highest output in the moment.
@@tealkerberus748I checked this with an engineer of the company who sold a Victron inverter to me. Just hook up both controllers to the battery via the inverter. There will be no fight between the controllers. What the system won't be able to do is display the input from the wind turbine and from the PV array separateyl. But it will detect (and display) the charge state of the battery which will increase at a faster pace if both wind and solar are active. Like the PV charge controller the wind turbine charge controller will detect the charge state of the battery and stop (or break) the wind turbine if there are no loads and the battery is full. That is the main control task the charge controller of the wind turbine has to fulfill and it will be able to do so. Regardless of the existence of other charge controllers. Btw the statment by the engineer is supported by what is written in the handbook for the wind turbine ("The book by Tesup").
What a shock to hear my alma mater, Bucknell University, mentioned on an undecided video 😱 Fun fact while in engineering school there I helped revive an old wind turbine that had been sitting on the campus farm, unused, after getting hit by lighting. I led a team which designed and installed a standalone energy conversion and storage system for the turbine which is still there to this day. The farm uses it to power all their tools from the power of the wind. 😁 That project really sparked my interest and love for wind energy and im so happy to hear about all the innovations coming in the near future for residential production!
Yes please talk about these residential wind companies!! Especially the urban/city targeted companies.
A deeper dive into O-Wind and Harmony would be appreciated. I follow Robert Murray Smith and his explorations of various wind turbines and his theme of cheap vs efficiency.... worth a look.
Yes. Agree. This efficiency fetish is not helping. A better index would be how much energy will be produced by the proposed device in a given location. This makes comparisons possible and we can see if the device repays its construction carbon footprint and maintenance effort. If the device is simple, reliable, robust, and works in the proposed location there is a good chance it will make a useful net energy contribution. We need to remember solar panels at about 25% are less efficient than some of the "bad" turbine designs... small simple turbines could still be useful. Personally I would love to have a small unit contributing to the household energy budget while ever the wind blows, and especially during storms when solar is not going to be happening.
I love the research of small scale wind turbines. As somebody living in the north of Norway where we have very little sun and a lot of wind, this could become a life changer for us
Two things I been thinking about for wind turbine, one for on/above roof smaller turbines and two converting an old wind power well pump
Love your informative videos. 02:41 Yes, I would love to see a video from you exploring wind energy harnessing in urban spaces. Thank you, Matt. Your subscriber 🙏
Great video! Love the new studio and lighting. I would be interested in seeing how aesthetic preferences for different turbine designs sway public opinion and the feasibility of mass-deployed wind, especially in urban areas. When I talk to people, that seems to be one of their main concerns.
That's a great point ... I need to see if there's any studies into that. And glad you like the new studio lighting! Slowly trying to update the look and feel of the videos.
I think I saw a wall of turbines that looked like Harmony's turbines. I thought it looked quite solarpunky. And I like it! Or maybe I'm remembering a fever dream.
Thanks for sharing this. I’ve been hoping for residential vertical access wind turbines for years. In northwest Iowa, we have large wind turbine farms because while we have perfect sunlight 1/3 of the year, we have wind for like 80 - 90% of it. I’ve wanted to generate electricity on the farm this way for years.
I've wanted to park a small turbine off the end of the dock at Lake Okoboji for years. In my dreams, it charges an electric boat on the hoist right there or sends power to the lake house. But of course that's only a summer solution so it won't happen that way if it ever does.
Yes please create more videos on residential wind turbines!
I do have a suggestion that I think would make this information more relatable to a homeowner: tell us how much power these are capable of producing. With all the talk in the last few years about EVs, I have learned how much energy is a lot. For instance, the AC outlets built into some Ford trucks tell us that they can supply 400 watts, or about enough to power four 100 watt light bulbs. That's something that I can relate to. So would one of the turbines you reviewed be enough to power a home?
I'm glad that there are innovators in this sector! It drives me crazy that people insist that a certain type of energy generation has a certain limitation, therefore it couldn't possibly be any good and we shouldn't bother. We've barely even started to solve this sustainable energy problem. Humans are extremely creative, we'll come up with more ideas.
Even in the fossil fuel sector there is no one single solution used for everything. There's thermal coal used directly and coal powered steam generators, diesel, petrol, kerosene, lpg, methane - some people even used to burn peat to warm their houses. And yet people think one single renewable source has to do everything, and if solar doesn't work overnight or wind turbines don't work in still weather somehow that makes them useless.
Deep dive desired desperately
Really enjoying the new background set design! Nice work, inproves the delivery of your content.
Yes! I'd love to see more about new wind turbine designs for urban areas. Thanks!
Matt, it seems likely that a hybrid approach using both solar and wind for residential energy augmentation will be a growing industry over the next decade. It would be interesting to gain an understanding of how this can be integrated into a home’s electrical system when adding the fact that most of us will also continue to have a utility company supply power to our homes.
States and territories by customers out Oregon 59,965 Louisiana 15,939 Texas 10,208 California 8,013 Colorado 5,128 Guess how many households are disconnected from the grid in France, where nuclear power is predominantly used? Zero. It's a huge rarity there.
We have just installed solar power in our home in the Swedish Countryside. Even tho it wasn't finished until autumn, we did have days where we for a couple of hours not only were fully self-sufficient on electricity, but also were able to sell a (smallish, but at least something) amount of electricity. I am following the residential wind power evolution too, but I think it is still a few years off (at least until I install something).
@@vladimirya7166 well France is also a much smaller and older country with better defined infrastructure. its not really to do with the kind of power being used its the distribution of it.
@@yolothepinepapple7153 So it is clear that the USA is a backward country, in which there are still rotten wooden poles that often burn. But the problem is not only in California (the network is constantly down), but also in Texas, where wind turbines are a significant part of generation. And there were even cases when people paid astronomical amounts for electricity. Isn't that what you call "efficiency" and "caring for nature"? For me, it's just strange how you can call "bird killers" caring for nature.
Why will it be a growing industry next decade, what changed in this industry this decade and the last?
Matt, I want to thank you. I was inspired by your videos to find a way to invest in some of these startups. Last year, I found Harmony Turbines via a site that allowed me to buy shares of the company. I am thrilled to see them featured in your video today, because I am in love with their concept. They still have a ways to go, but I am proud to be able to be a small part of it.
This is great to see. I've been saying vertical turbines are the future, but the Bernouilli design is also very interesting.
I'm glad your giving exposure to Harmony.
Like you, when I was planning my new home I was looking into possible home energy production options and stumbled upon Harmony. They looked extremely promising at the time and are looking better now. I love their design and will be following their development in the future. One of the best things about them is their stuff can be sourced domestically and doesn't require reliance on foreign rare earths. I also don't really see them having the same issue as having to strip and replace thousands of acres of turbines (vs solar) every ten to twenty years - perhaps just replace some gears and tighten some bolts. These things are set to be the Maytag of home wind generation.
Interesting, Matt, but we are yet to see a single meaningful number: not just raw efficiency, but actually measured production in a realistic installation.
More information on all the small start ups!! yes please Also on tidal / wave generation, this one is absolutely key for sustainability, and is currently even less publicised than wind!!
I’m up on the eastern ridge, of Massa-choose-its Pioneer Valley@ 1300 ft above sea level. Been here for 50 yrs, and always pay attention to ‘which way the wind blows.’ We had a tornado, in 2006, that re-defined, my witness, of wind speed and duration. My town , regularly, have power generation projects, as all power transmission lines, run thru this town ( of 900 residents, 450 houses, 66% of the land is forest, owned by the state)to service the state . We generate water, at 1200 ft, which fills a 5-town built reservoir , that is for the eastern half, of Mass.
Great video. I would like to see a deeper dive into those companies mentioned in the beginning of the video. Thank you for all your hard work!
Appreciate that. And thanks for the feedback.
Great video, good content, i would like to see more content about the smaller wind generation setups out there for personal home use, how much those would generate, and when they become worth getting, and if battery storage is smart with the wind generation of energy, and or if best combined with solar, so please let me know what you think about it
if Harmony keeps the metal design, I wonder if there would be a way to add a heater to warm up the scoops...?
@@I_report_scammers_spammers if you look in our FAQ we have definitely covered this topic for our followers.
I’m so excited for this. We live in a wind tunnel. Also want one for on top of the RV. Vertical on its side to charge while driving and dip vertical when parked.
Great ideas with these small wind turbines from these startups, cool!) Thanks Matt!
Harmony is one I've been watching for a few years now and I'm interested to see where it goes. The issue for where I am is that we have 4-6 months of snow and I'm still waiting for something that does well in snow and not just snow, but in heavy snow loads.
Curious about the snow/ice resistance too, especially considering attention is drawn to New England, NY, etc where there's snow and ice for several months a year.
It is known as maintenance. Not much works without it.
@@jimw1615 Snow removal in large quantities that collects would be considered maintenance, yes, however heavy snowfall is consider normal operation in certain areas of the world. For example, if the Harmony device appears to have close clearances that would bind or internal mechanics that would freeze, jam or fail, the device would be unsuitable for these climates, especially if the turbine were located far out of reach. Some roof-mount devices have warmers that assist with this problem, especially in the north. In my area, it's fairly normal to get 24" of snowfall, but more commonly, a lot of snow melting and refreezing as ice, or damming and cracking things. This type of weather makes it hard for exposed mechanical devices to operate properly in the winter months unless they were specifically designed for these environments. Since a large portion of the country experiences similar icing weather conditions, the question is valid. Maintenance is not and excuse for and should not be considered a workaround for failure to meet standard operating conditions.
@tresf 17 minutes ago (edited) @jimw1615 Snow removal in large quantities that collects would be considered maintenance, yes, however heavy snowfall is consider normal operation in certain areas of the world. For example, if the Harmony device appears to have close clearances that would bind or internal mechanics that would freeze, jam or fail, the device would be unsuitable for these climates, especially if the turbine were located far out of reach. Some roof-mount devices have warmers that assist with this problem, especially in the north. In my area, it's fairly normal to get 24" of snowfall, but more commonly, a lot of snow melting and refreezing as ice, or damming and cracking things. This type of weather makes it hard for exposed mechanical devices to operate properly in the winter months unless they were specifically designed for these environments. Since a large portion of the country experiences similar icing weather conditions, the question is valid. Maintenance is not and excuse for and should not be considered a workaround for failure to meet standard operating conditions. @@tresf Yes, that is the answer most lazy people offer. I lived in Park City, UT where feet of snowfall was produced by every storm that went through. Your stance on the matter is pretty much standard for many today.
Preventative and necessary maintenance is different than expected operating conditions. It's not lazy to expect an appliance to work in expected weather conditions. The question is valid.
Wind doesn't work on small scales like residential. You're dealing with two fundamental issues: - The Betz Limit - The Power in Wind equation The Betz Limit is basically a theoretical number of the maximum efficiency you can possibly get. At most, only 59.3% of the kinetic wind energy can be used to spin the turbine and generate electricity. Remember this is a theoretical limit; in practice, you're going to be closer to 40%. The Power in Wind equation is given as: P = 1/2 x ρ x A x V³ Where: P = power in Watts ρ = air density (kg/m³, at about 1.2 at sea level) A = Swept area of the blades (m²) V = Velocity of the wind So, no matter how good your turbine is (and it doesn't matter what type you have), you will get in practice at most 40% of the wind energy converted to electricity. To capture the wind energy in the first place, you have two variables to increase (one in your control, the other not): swept area and wind velocity. The smaller you make the turbine, the faster you need to spin to make any meaningful energy. The only variable you control is the swept area, which means making the blades as big as possible. Also notice that the velocity is cubed in that equation, so you'll generate much, much less power at low wind speeds. In other words, it doesn't work because physics. Never mind the noise and maintenance requirements.
This seems right and likely explains why small-scale wind energy has not made any inroads-- A is measured as the square of the diameter of the blades. I wish Matt had discussed this basic physics. The only possible way for small-scale wind to make any sense is to take advantage of high wind velocities, or, I suppose, to build the generator for a very low cost. Wind velocity (V) gets cubed in the equation and traditional turbines, as I understand it, have to shut down at very high velocities. But if Harmony is having to close down its "turbine" blades when wind speeds go up, it doesn't seem it has figured out how to cash in on velocity cubed. Perhaps it has figured out how to build its turbine for next to nothing.
A deeper dive into the specific designs you mentioned would be a great idea. :D
I'd love to see that multi-blade VAWT shown in the roll-in, operating in a 60 mph breeze (fairly common in Texas). Showtime!!! I have built wind turbines for over 50 years as an avocation. That said, I rely on a handful of $30 12-volt PV panels feeding a central air battery. The key to usefulness of any form of alternative power is storage. An air battery runs my homestead's electrical energy needs quite well. Redirecting the amount of money spent on fancy mechanical devices destined to eventually fly apart in a storm ( been there, experienced that) a rooftop air battery would be out of sight atop a roof, last forever (no moving parts) and cost a fraction of a fraction of the cost of ANY turbine!
Matt would LOVE to see you dive deeper on current turbines for homes vs industrial applications! We have so much [strong] wind here in the UK anything would probably work here!
I am very interested in Harmony Turbines. Their CEO is passionate about using wind that's there, but that nobody else is using. These might lack efficiencies of big turbines, but they can catch up when the others have to stop generating completely. I have longed for snall scale wind generation for years and this is promising! Please keep us updated, Matt, I love your down-to-earth channel!
I did see Robert Murray Smith make a type of wind turbine a long time ago that could seemingly generate electricity with little to no wind (its a small thing that produces less than a watt if I remember correctly). Other companies were doing similar things but targeting vibration as the generation source, instead of wind... hard to remember the details as it was a few years ago that I followed some of those projects, but I do remember Robert making a Darwin wind turbine similar to how Aeromine works, but it just redirects the wind from around the housing down onto the stationary turbine. They did upload a small 3d printable model that could also be made with scrap metal (if you had the time and fabrication knowhow) or plastic due to its simple shape and design.
Yes please more videos on residential wind!! ❤
Archimedes turbines are also quite the thing, be interesting to understand how they all compare in equalised tests - this is what people need to help decide what's best for their situation.
Came to these comments to mention the Liam F1 design in particular. I am very curious to see how that design compares to the ones mentioned here.
Vertical turbines for home use in urban areas would be very beneficial. I'd like to see vertical turbines on the tops or corners of taller (office/apartment) buildings. Can you image a 10+ story building with vertical turbines on all 4 corners, from the 2nd story up? That could be a lot of power production.
So what interests me here is the Harmony Turbine solution where I see them running prototypes at ground level. If they can be aesthetically pleasing and elevated just enough to be out of reach of kids / pets in backyard, and able to generate enough power to keep night-time use of home powered (~1 kW anytime I look at my Tesla Solar app at night), then our Powerwalls would more consistently last through the night and keep us 100% self-powered. Even if this technology is not yet proven and ready, I love to learn about these developments, so thank you for doing a fine job covering in detail as you did, including interviews with the company representatives. Edit: The Aeromine solution is also cool, but I think better for commercial buildings (especially larger warehouses I see around my area). Not as applicable to my interest in residential solutions.
We live near Kennedy Space Center in FL. We always have a breeze even though we are about 5 miles from the ocean. Turbines that could self dampen during a big storm while are not around sound really amazing!
Certainly a topic of the moment. I've been running turbines of various shapes for more than 40 years now. Noise and vibration, and thus shaking loose, are a problem for building mounted turbines, and our building materials usually don't cope with long term vibrations too well. This is why I think most turbine success stories have traditionally been with installations in remote areas. I always liked Savonius rotors but its true the fixed ones can't be easily shut down and power out is proportional to the cube of the windspeed, so a 1 KW domestic Savonius at 20 ft/sec will try to generate 125Kw at 100 ft/second ( a moderate gale) - and 125 Kw continuous power is a lot to manage. I like the rotational furling idea, but again the rotor speed will dramatically increase as the diameter decreases due to conservation of ( rotational) momentum so that will need to be dealt with. Its a situation where the governor unfortunately makes the problem worse by governing. Sure the aerofoil is less exposed when its retracted - thats good - but you need to be able to absorb the extra power reliably. I had a wind blade travel half a mile at high speed once, and that was terrifying in a huge gale. You (we) need to look at the generator output vs rotational speed and work out something smart there too. One of my little turbines changes blade shape in high wind to shed the excess power, and the sound it makes is terrifying, like a huge banshee. All those Kilowatts going into sound!
I LOVE your videos... what amazing news everytime I watch one! With this video... it sounds like the two wind turbine companies could benefit each other... putting their two stack venturi effect turbine design and put it in front of the articulating fin/scoop design from harmony would multiply the effects because of the low pressure zone then blowing into the other. You could most likely make this for places that have predictable and consistent wind direction
Matt Ferrell thank you so much for constantly educating us, the work you're doing is important.
You put 10% of a solar farm on your roof, you get 10% of the power of that solar farm. However with turbines having a square relation to the power, you put a 10% size turbine on your roof you get root-10 - or 3%. Then there is the height/site suitability and close by turbulence. Bottom line, wind does not scale to small turbines. What you need is a community to get together and 100 homes get a big community wind turbine.
You know that's actually a good idea except that people don't seem to want large turbines wich is sad
What root do you get? Where do you put the 90% of solar if not on your roof?
@@SteveStowell I think you missed the point here .... try reading it again and maybe it will make sense. The point is about scalability.
University of Michigan Engineering team a decade ago has low stream hydro vortex power generation... you can do one with a recycled washing machine, many youtubers show this.... hydrobatteries like the one on Lake Michigan near me, also.. ours is powered by wind at night and then generates extra power flowing the water back down through turbines to the lake
Your logic only works for standard pinwheel style turbines, which is exactly what this is trying to address. Getting 100 houses together is ideal, but instead of making one massive bird killing turbine, it's better they all use smaller induvial turbines that can more or less make each house self sufficient, and have little to no impact on the wildlife comparatively, but still connect them as a smart grid incase the wind stops blowing a block away, the rest of the microgrid can feed them from installed batteries to make up for the temporary low wind. We're better off having localized production and hooked up as a community grid, than we are having a single source provide for all, because that means one single failure point effects everyone. It may not be as "efficient" as having a massive turbine like China's that are able to power 39k homes for a year, but that also means you still have more self reliance should anything happen.
I am an professional engineer with a lifetime background in manufacturing and research. For 10 years I manufactured both horizontal and vertical wind generators for off-grid applications. The issue is that small installations are not cost effective - cheaper and more reliable is a small petrol portable generator for about 15% of the cost. The worst of all designs is the vertical Savonious rotor which (according to my measuremants) is some 7% efficient compared to some 46% for traditional "windmill" designs. I urge Harmony Turbines not to put any more money into the Savonious Rotor - it is a non-starter. I know from (costly) experience.
Never mentioned is the power is proportional to the length of the blade. Maybe the math changed in the last 40 years. Small does not work for wind turbines according to the old maths
The video is disturbingly devoid of useful numbers. (cost/efficiency/watts)
But reality has changed. The "cheap portable petrol generator" is not an option anymore. Fixating on optimum solutions is premature optimization in a situation where the speed of the transition is crucial. If private money can be moved from cars to wind it is a huge win - even if the same money theoretically could get more bang for the bucks in an industrial setting. Getting your own over engineered, semi efficient turbine may be way more appealing to most people than investing the money in Big Wind Inc. And owning a turbine may also persuade you to change consumption patterns faster as you can see the turbine churn money in. That will make you wash and charge more on windy days. In complex crises like those we face today conventional wisdom can be a dangerous thing. That said we should absolutely keep an eye on cost and efficiency and scams, but I am a lot more worried about nuclear Ponzi schemes here.
I'll happily take 15% efficiently to supplement my solar. I've got the house off the grid and that little consistant generation is all I need.
You're not an engineer otherwise you would've said, plants eat C02 & this whole concept is not necessary. Using combustion engines actually make plants grow healthier and more robust.
When I saw the title and thumbnail for this video I immediately thought: “oh boy, marketing old ideas that were proven ineffective decades ago” (which is the case for grid scale vertical axis wind turbines in general). But then you managed to very quickly park that squarely away, highlighting that they may have a place yet (just not at grid scale). I’m intrigued to see where these go, or try them out myself.
Yes! Any information on emerging wind energy residential technology would be wonderful.
What ever happened to the ridge blade? That seemed like it might have good potential for some residential applications... I'm definitely interested in more coverage of small scale wind development, particularly the ideas of how to turn a traditional disadvantage into gains. Love all the naysayers popping up and completely missing the point here... The reasons traditional turbine don't work at small scale doesn't mean there isn't a solution... Just have to find that solution, refine it, and scale to economical mass production. Easier said than done, but most problems are solvable... Just won't ever happen by these narrow minded "experts."
I'm asking the same question about Ridge Blade. I've reached out to them multiple times over the past year or so and gotten no response. Not a good sign. It's a shame, but it's a really cool and novel idea. Appreciate your POV too.
“Cost effective” is a misleading characterization in our artificial carbon based economy. Virtually all costs are externalized and time shifted and so evaluating alternatives in this preposterously slanted market is impossible.
Yes please cover urban wind, including multi residential buildings.
+1 for a video about urban-friendly designs and use. Love your channel !
More vaporware 🙄
Possibly I think more then likely for the scale they are implying But I think if you keep that in mind it may be fine Then it become a price issue Really I just wish we would accept nuclear
The problem is the noise they make.
How noisy are they? Db
harmony turbine makes no noise, the noise is very very low.
yes would love to see what other wind generaters could be coming out
I’m not a scientist or an expert in aerodynamics, but I’ve been interested in wind power, and watching all the developments for about ten years now and one theme is always present in every press release, news story or U tube video. It’s the promise that we’ve got great new projects in final development and testing and this should be financially viable for the average homeowner soon! Or we’re about six months or so from rolling out our groundbreaking tech & everyone will be fighting to get theirs first! Same story every time, year after year………….
The speed the tips of wind turbines move at is incredible. Also the outward force is velocity squared divided by its radius.
This is awesome I blew my kids mind the other day, we had built some 'robots' simple motors and rotors with batteries, that would move around the floor, I took one and took the batteries out and connected an led to the battery pack then spun the rotor / motor, he couldn't believe it when the led lit up. he thought it was magic, and I did a deep dive into the different ways turbines are used to generate almost all our electricity. I really hope he becomes and engineer in the future because its fascinating seeing his eyes light up when he notices a wind turbine.
Please do continue to create videos on residential wind turbines. I am really interested in this! What I would be mostly interested in is a small wind turbine, that I can install myself and just plug in to my wall outlet. No need to generate hundreds or thousands of Watt. I would be happy with a maximum of about 100 Watt. The downfall of a lot of companies is that they promise way too much. Then the "nay" sayers have an easy job picking on the ROI time. For me ROI is not important. I want to experiment with this.
Love the idea, where i grew up we had one of the first large wind turbines in our country near residential guess my only problem with most systems is the noise an if you are using things like the venturi effect what effect does this have on the air flow around buildings/places also wonder if the cooling effect on the air will effect things. Look forward to the future but i always believe we are 20 years or more behind where we should be right now cause of how things have gone in the past (space is a great example, so is electric vehicles)
Hi Matt, I'm in western Pa and I'm a Penn State Alum of sorts....among other things. I have had conversation with Chris & Harmony as I came across them awhile back and followed as I knew what I was looking at....and relative to the area I was from. The mechanics of the design are SPOT ON and perfect as to control RPM and thus the WORK to transfer to a generator per se. I'm working on bringing the technology and another aspect of storage to my area in western Pennsylvania, as you can't have one without the other......and with natural resources...you work with what you got & the lay of the land......adapt & overcome. I look at the technology and then I also look at the opposite end and maybe what could be waste. SO as with a gasoline power plant, the heats is the waste and must be dissipated with the exception for tapping that waste for climate control in a motor vehicle. One such technology you have already reviewed is my application as also being perfect.......as though as it may seem...a Rube Goldberg-ish scenario of a symbiotic relationship for lack of a better term as You Can't Have One Without The Other. So its transfer the POWER of the Wind blowing freely via the HARMONY as it can modulate the RPM and essentially close up and shut down if needs be. BUt point being is to charge a storage battery or perhaps an array of these storage batteries at different stages of discharge as to bucket brigade charge & dis-charge.......but the nature of the Battery is that of a reactor as it produces heat as a byproduct which can be harnessed to produce STEAM as well as HOT water.....but most importantly Steam to drive a conventional Steam Turbine.....for obvious reasons and conventionality. BUT this also can invoke the Stirling aspect too with a HOT & COLD differential to be exploited. It was STEAM & STIRLING that got us the INDUSTRIAL REVOLUTION and where we are in Global Warming.....and this is the Answer to That for TOTAL CLEAN GENERATION and all interactive with a purpose....and so simplistic. Its not hard to Notion an Off Grid scenario in new construction or retrofits. THINK neighborhood Micro-GRIDs and should you over produce....dump it into the GRID at large. Essentially the Wind generation is temporary to initial charge per se and as a back up, for once the battery is VITALIZED and thus steam is being produced and driving a STEAM TURBINE....its relatively self contained and....perpetual if you THINK about it. The battery has to charge & discharge and the steam aspect can be the controlled source for charge when needed applied. SO NO MORE ELECTRIC BILLS OR GAS BILLS for Natural Gas or.....FUEL OIL or BOTTLED GAS
I should add for you, NUMEC corp and Zalman Shapiro.....and NUCLEAR BATTERIES and that affair that affects my home region and the resultant contamination and recycling scenario.....and a recent Pittsburgh situation of WESTINGHOUSE wanting to produce Nuclear Batteries....boggles my mind if you think it out and with the aspect of the local history involved. WESTINGHOUSE was to develop the next GEN Nuke Reactors.....and the coal fired power generation plants are shutting down....and coal or NUKE.....its all about HEAT and making STEAM