This is Why the Ford 1.5L 1.6L 2.0L and 2.3L Ecoboost Engines are Gulping Coolant!
In this video we show you why the Ford 4 cylinder Ecoboost Engines are failing due to a block design defect.
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Two things amaze me here: 1. The engineers actually thought that block with the slit was a good idea. 2. That poor design actually worked at all for any period of time.
Yeah, it doesn't take an engineer to see that as a textbook point of failure.
The original proposal was probably correct but management asked for a more cost effective option.
I'm sure that the engineers didn't think it was a good idea but the bean counters made them do it anyway
I watch the engine tear downs on the I Do Cars channel and he’s pulled apart a Nissan 3.5 and a Chrysler 3.6 Pentastar that had this slit between the cylinder design. The Nissan had a lot of metal between each cylinder so maybe not an issue for them. The Pentastar had maybe a bit more between the cylinders than the EcoBoosts, but idk if those have any similar issues.
You say that, but Volvo have been doing it for decades before Ford tried it. And they only ever give issue when you increase power dramatically.
We have had 3 major engine repairs (all for this issue) with our 2018 Escape BEFORE 30K miles. I think it has the 1.5L engine. I cannot imagine how much this has cost Ford, but I do know it has cost them a customer. Thank you for explaining it much better than our service advisors.
I have a 2003 3.0 V6 Duratec Escape. Apart from a few oil leaks and a bad PCV valve, it's been pretty good and has 250,000 kms on the clock. Sad to see manufacturers going backwards.
@@PhilUKNet the late 90s early 00s were the golden age for durable engines.
Hey man. If three issues occurred with same part you can petition to have a lemon law take place. Making them buy it back for full price. Then you can switch.
@@jbnnm657 I tried that but our lemon law didn’t seem to apply with the timing. Ford did extend the warranty though.
@@markmazurik8329 how long did they extend it?
I'm a tech at a Toyota dealer. A while ago we sold a used 17 Lincoln MKC with the 2.0 and it came back to us over the summer with this exact issue at around 125k. Hearing that they updated the engine makes me very glad that we sourced a fresh long block from the Ford dealer next door rather than getting a used motor. Ironically the long block was cheaper than a used motor, even with adding on a turbo due to coolant in the oil.
@@matthewdoyle3513 We see the occasional 3rd Gen for EGR issues, not too many for head gaskets. I don't think its that Toyota chose a design that fails around 150k, but rather that some start failing around that point. It's likely due to owner habits and driving conditions because we've seen 3rd gens with over 200k that haven't had any major engine repairs of that nature done.
The MKC is junk to begin with. I can’t imagine buying one of those polished turds only to have to deal with catostrophic engine failure, too.
@@JimmyDoresHairDye Meanwhile Lexus owners are selling their 2005's for 10,000 with 300,000 miles on them with never an issue.
@J D I know many with MKC with zero issues, myself included. Very nice vehicle, especially for the $ in comparison to other. Every mfg, and vehicle model made can experience issues
Do you work at Saratoga Toyota? I think that was my car.
Thanks for the detailed information. A friend of mine has the 1.5 and this happened but she got a quote for a brand new engine instead of a rebuild with a huge price tag.
At one point in time I was the record holder at the Ford Dealership I once worked for as a tech, I ended up having 12 Escapes back lined waiting for parts and block too. The process was insane especially when I had to use dollies to achieve this operation at times. These warranty repair orders were a nightmare at first until the process was refined.
What about 2016-2019 Ford Edge with Ecoboost engine?
@@TheMichaelJu same issue with edge, fusion, mkz, etc
LOL!! I used to work at a welding supply chain store as a service tech and I had the same thing with the Miller XMT Inverter welders. I worked there for something like 2 years and I never once had a day that I didn't have at least one of the POS machines set in cue for a major overhaul and almost all were 100% under warranty. If you ever want to buy a good product talk to the service techs, not the salespeople. A service tech will tell you what machines they see the most and what ones they never see. A salesperson will try to get you to buy whatever they make the most commissions on even if it is absolute garbage.
@@tcmtech7515 I have two of those in my shop that the boss refuses to admit there's anything wrong with because it will turn on and weld good for the first hour or so but it eventually fucks up and he says we are making it up lol. Sent them in to get repaired and they came back saying there's nothing wrong and we had to pay for their diagnostic time.
@@tcmtech7515 I just walked over to check them out and they are "450 XMT CC/CV" lol trash machines for sure. For what we bought them for used and service fees, we could have had new everlast machines. These machines are the reason I went with an everlast and it seems to be holding up well.
love when the bean counters get involved in designing things. it almost always ends poorly
Bean counters control the world. Which is why we are all so screwed.
Not sure it's a bean counter issue. I mean, sure, not wanting to redesign the block and cost thereto, there's that, but more a 'we need more cooling, how do we do this?' issue, and they came up with a wrong solution thinking it'd be ok, then finding out later that they dun messed up. Not letting them off the hook for this, of course, someone in the engineering team should have said "yknow... that seems fraught" and made them figure out something else. These are the challenges of trying to get 10 lbs of hrspwrs outta a 5 lb block though. Heat's a female dog.
Not bean counting, it’s engineering. It almost looks obvious that the point of failure would’ve been in the thin spot.
@@mikeybhoutex Its not. The cycle time and tooling costs are going to be negligible for the hole vs the slot. Its just a poor design. These companies just never seem to learn from their past mistakes and mistakes made by other companies. Its common sense when you have higher cylinder pressures you need a generous amount of sealing surface for the head gasket to seal long term.
@@mikeybhoutex Pretty much a no-brainer that cutting a slit in the block to pass water would be an issue. Wouldn't have to be an engineer to see that problem. But just one more time where a lawsuit has to be filed to get a company to own up to it!
Good to know. I have a ‘17 2.0 I bought used, only have around 60k on it. No issues so far, I’ve had it 3 years. Glad I bought an extended drivetrain warranty.
Im impressed you keep your shop so clean.
I guarantee that the engineers at Ford didn't want to do that and some guy wearing a suit and holding a checkbook came and overrode him and here we are...
I dont know what happened here, my guess having experience in engine development is that the slit was never there until they had cooling issues during testing in later stages of development. The solution here was probably "we got to redesign the block" potentially causing a 12-18 month delay, which would cascade to the vehicle platform being delayed. With that, the engineering managers were pushed to find a workaround solution to keep the program on schedule. This is more common that you realize, in this case it was a huge failure in design. When I was at Ford on development projects, meeting timing is very high priority.
Bean-counters gonna count beans, sadly.
We’re just the lab rats to them
Wouldn't give Ford engineers too much credit. Overall quality for Ford has dropped to almost GM levels over recent years.
Theyre mazda engines. Ford just gets the blame for them
Chrysler figured out that cross drill idea back in 1988. The engineers supposedly determined that it kept the head gasket about 70 degrees cooler between the cylinders.
Nice, great info!
Yep, and I had an ‘87 … Loved that car, but the head gasket went at 108k, and the head cracked. PISSER !!
You mean the same company that had an almost 80% head gasket failure by 70,000 miles blowing oil… like a Subaru ej251/253.
K-Car engineering!
@@W3DRK No, neon and cloud car 2.0 and early 2.4 make by mopar, not to be confused with the Mitsubishi ones that have their own set of issues
I own a 09 Ford Ranger Sport, regular cab, short bed, with the 2.3 ltr. Mazda engine with an automatic. It was was built in the Twin Cities assembly plant just before they shut down. Kudos to the folks that built it. It's still as tight as the day I drove it home from the dealership and now has over a 190,000 miles on it. It's been used and abused and still running strong..Something we may never see again from Ford...
My 02 with the same engine but stick and built in the New Jersey plant before they shut it down. Only found one minor flaw in their build. 255,000 miles still runs and drives great! Makes me never want to buy a new truck even if they had not priced themselves out of the market.
One of fords best vehicles ever
It's mostly a Ford engine >> The Duratec 23, also known as the Mazda L engine, is a 2.3-liter naturally aspirated four-cylinder from Ford Motor used to power compact and midsize cars, pickup trucks and utility vehicles, or more commonly known as CUVs. Featuring a dual overhead cam (DOHC) design, in an inline configuration, the Ford Duratec 23 engine has been part of the Ford Duratec engine family since 2001........ This engine was developed in partnership with Mazda (part of the MZR family), but under Ford ownership, which explains why it was used in a variety of different vehicle applications from one brand to the next. Such variations also meant that a slew of different technologies were grafted onto the engine as it evolved, things like a direct injection spark ignition (DISI), turbocharging, and Ford’s now ubiquitous Twin Independent Variable Camshaft Timing (Ti-VCT). The Ford 2.3L Duratec 23 engine is derived from the Ford Duratec 20 ,
Really appreciate your work. 2k8 Escape Hybrid (thx for the repair vid) 148k miles and 2022 PowerBoost F150 15k miles.
Tons of the older ford escapes at my work started constantly having coolant leaks. My dealer said it was bad hose clips. Now I know the real issues.
Thanks for that explanation. It’s important to know that the problem is only with engines of certain years and not all of them.
Nop no high-volume pumps for the second gen 3.5L Eco.
Thank you for your channel and posting the videos that you do. Your videos are great and the comments from viewers are just awesome, which indicates the skill level of the viewers you have attracted. Keep up the good work.
Not since the lifetime sealed PTU has there been such an amazing concept as the slit.
I have two old volvo v70 d5. A 2003 and a 2004. They are just relentless. Apparently part of the reason is when they leave the factory they were under tuned so not ever really straining. As you say manufacturers are continually trying to get more power out of engines these days
main reason I prefer a naturally aspirated engine; whatever you save on fuel economy, you'll give back on the back end with costly repairs. save myself a hassle of going through that bs.
Turbo engines don't save fuel with normal driving. Only on the EPA tests.
Diesels seem to have no problem with being turbo’ed. But still forced induction causes more failure points in general with any system.
The coolant level on my 2013 Fusion Titanium kept dropping every couple of weeks. I would check the oil and inside the engine bay, but could never find a trace of a leak. Well, one night I was driving on the freeway when I heard the loudest pop I had ever heard inside a car. It sounded exactly like a plastic bottle full of air exploding. Turns out that a coolant hose blew up. I was able to make it home and noticed the coolant reservoir was empty. After the hose was replaced, the coolant level remained the same. Although the pop scared the crap out of me that night, I'm glad the coolant wasn't leaking into the engine.
From my understanding any 2 liter from 2016-2020 had this silly design, and all those before it are sturdy.
I have owned 2 - 2.0L GTDI Ecoboost engines in 2 different vehicles. 1 was gen1 - 2.0L in '16 Lincoln MKZ AWD sedan the other a gen2 - 2.0L in '23 Edge SEL sport (my daily driver & 2nd Edge ive owned. The other a '14 Edge w/3.5L V6 non GTDI). Still own the '16 Lincoln an has never given us any issues. Has 140k mis as i travel for business w/it often. All my vehicles are well maintained ..oil changes every 5-6k mis w/full synthetic/Motorcraft filters..coolant changed by dealer every 2yrs..transmission fluid (OEM is synthetic ULV) changed every 50mis on all vehicles . Nothing special! Love the power/efficiency/smooth-quiet operation. Lots ppl must be very happy w/these GTDI engines is my pt. With just good basic maintenance are as good an often better than other brands engines. Fact is lots ppl dont adhere to badic maintenance practices! Fords Gen2 GTDI Ecoboost are mainstream *high performance* engine deaigns in all aspects. EVERYONE is copying Fords lead w/GTDI technology but Ford has 15yrs experience now. 💯
I've seen some videos of the EcoBoost v6 failing in Ford trucks such as F150 and the Expedition, and several Mustangs. Been a loyal Ford buyer for a long time with some Lincolns in the mix as well, all V8s though. No more, switching brands because there is no way any of the Engineers at Ford didn't know about this and the many other issues not mentioned here. Planned obsolescence is more obvious than ever before.
The new Ford 7.3 gas engine is the best big block out now. Avoid turbo daily drivers..
You could say the same for every brand. My dad had a Z71 and an Acadia, but after the lifter collapse on a 2015 Z7- that required a new engine just out of warranty and the Acadia that has had several problems he’ll never own another GM.
All brands have different problems.
@@TheBandit7613 I don't know much about ford but avoid turbo engine for daily unless you got the patience to wait for the car to warm up before wot and wait for the turbo to spool down before turn the key off.
@@Align700nitro I have a diesel Ford F350, I do a lot of towing. I haven't had any trouble but diesels in general are a pain. All of them. Oil changes are a couple hundred bucks... expensive maintenance. Have to be careful climbing mountain passes, have to watch the exhaust temperature. That's all turbo diesels. Big rigs too. Ford created a masterpiece with the 7.3 gas heavy duty engine. They went BACK in time, no more DOHC. Just a conventional cam and lifters. Gobs of power. Trying to get too much power from too few cubic inches.
Same thing with the Volvo RN engines. When the bore was increased to 2.5L the area between the cylinders became marginally thin. Mine actually cracked during an overboost.
was looking for this comparison.. As soon as i saw this block, i thought oh when ford bought Volvo and took on the white block they thought this is great we can do this. They tried and this looks to be the result. The Volvo 2.3 and 2.4 RN engines were perfect!
Same thing with the Subaru boxer engines the 2.0 has thicker cylinder walls than the 2.5 also why the stock head gaskets always blow at around 80 to 100k on the 2.5 turbos they cant handle the pressure. Shocking to see this is still happening all these years later with ford do they not test there engines then? I am guessing there testing procedure is nothing like Toyotas.
@@xsduprwd3937 One of the things that can be done is to 'shim' the space between the cylinders with ~.031" stock. Makes it more resistant.
@@xsduprwd3937 I once cracked a '98 2.3 T5, no mods just driving hard, coolant leak at the back of the engine, aluminum just cracked, wrecked engine.
My 19 Ford Edge with 2L ecoboost just had this issue. 56K miles. Ford identified the problem and had a new long block installed in a week and a day. Not happy about it happening but Ford took care of it at no cost. So far it’s been a pleasant experience.
It’s cheaper for them to sell you junk then when it breaks fix with another junk then actually engineer and produce a reliable design.
This validated my decision not to buy an Ecoboost Fusion for my wife. At the time I didn't know about the head gaskets blowing out. I just assumed there would be unforeseen problems. She's been very happy with the naturally aspirated 2.5L.
Buy a Mazda or Toyota.
The 2.5L is a great motor which Ford should not have discontinued!
If the block was two or three inches longer they could have spaced the bores a bit more and put a vertical web between the bores to increase cooling surface area.
It looks like even 9mm (3mm x 3) more would give the gasket an even amount of sealing surface all the way around. Of course, that would mean they still would have cooling issues between the cylinders, but yeah, too many hot things crowded too close together. Sometimes just pumping more air and fuel through the engine is not the answer to making more power in a smaller engine. Unfortunately the real world tends to be more complicated than people think it is.
11.14.22. Looks like Ford®️is doing their best to keep up with GM™️in who can push out failures in design & engineering of power trains‼️ just wait until they start pumping out electric motors…….😮
Poland
@@stevensapyak7971 Is that why the small block Chevy hasn't really changed in over 100 years since it's design was adopted from cadillac in 1913? Yeah, GM designs sure do suck. Can't forget about how awful allison transmissions are, not like they've gotten us through countless wars or anything...
3-4 ??!!? It'd only take about 1/2 an inch to fix that .. mb1 inch for a bigger ' drill hole ' that wasn't a compromise
Love your videos. They helped me rebuild my old 5.4 after timing chain guides broke
my 4.6 experienced same issue I'm now not a fan of either 4.6 or 5.4 engines
4 spark plug threads is plenty, so is apparently 1mm of head gasket between combustion chambers
7:51 - this seems to be the problem. The gasket. I had mine replaced with a bit thicker version on Ecoboost 2.0, and the coolant leakage issue seemed to go away. It's being only 5 000 km, since the replacement, so I'll keep monitoring. So far all good.
Thankful my Maverick doesn't have this issue. Thanks for the excellent video!
Perfect example of Ford not giving a shit about their customers. Design it in such a way that most of them will last through the powertrain warranty, then tell the customer to pound sand. Sad and infuriating, unfortunately this is nothing new to Ford.
Great video content and important information for Ford customers! This happened in cylinder #2 in my 2019 Escape SE with the 4 cylinder 1.5 L engine that only had 32,000 miles in May of 2022. Ford had to replace the entire short block under warranty. Thank the Lord that I did not put over 50,000 miles on it before this happened (I might have had to pay for it out of pocket under those circumstances).
you should have at least gottent he engine that is fixed now at least
I was fortunate enough to get an extended powertrainCARE warranty as my issue came across for my 2018 1.5L Ecoboost at 65k miles.
i just had this happen to me i bought 2017 escape 1.5ltr ecoboost never had one thing go wrong since i bought it brande new under ford motor credit until last month it just blew the head gasket i have 62k mi on it whiuch is 2k over the powertrain. I called ford and had my case reviewed from the dealer and ford said pound sand they werent even gonna do a partnership split on cost for me they literally screwed us for no reason. i will never buy another ford again at all. i have 3 more payments on it till its paid off lol.
Thank you. First one in the shop, I couldnt find the filter.
Thanks for this great video. Does this problem also apply to the 1.0 3cyl ecoboost?
Ford's better idea again. At least they updated the block to prevent the issue down the road, but not great for owners of the current design. Thanks for sharing Brian !
I wonder if the engineers were told to use particular existing machinery which limited their cylinder centres. This was quite common in industry years ago and might still be when development and production costs are limited. It’s a bit like bearings sealed for life when they seize life is over!
I had asked a friend if they had changed their transmission fluid as their car was over 50K miles. I was told that they asked the dealer and the dealer said that it never needed changed as it was good for the life of the transmission. I told them that means that when it goes bad early from never having a service that was it's life and that the Dealership would be happy to sell them parts or another vehicle. It goes right up there with the 10K mile oil change intervals that are listed now for newer vehicles.
The 2.0 and 2.3 Ecoboost engines are based on the architecture of the existing Mazda MZR engines found in the ~2007 Mazdaspeed 3 and ~2007 Mazda CX-7. They don't have this problem (they don't have the slit between the cylinders, indeed the Mazda is nearly a closed deck block) or the cylinder head cracking problems (the Mazda engines has four exhaust ports instead of the combined port of the Ford engine) but they have timing chain problems. So Ford got it a bit wrong when redesigning the 2.0-2.3. This doesn't explain how Ford also got it a bit wrong when designing the 1.0 and 1.5 though!
I wonder if coolant is getting trapped in that tiny passage, turning to steam; Then the steam is blowing the head gasket (initially). I think those passages are too small even on the new design. Just a thought and thanks for the video.
I bought a 17 ford edges ecoboost with 34,000 miles ….with 38,000 miles I started getting a misfire on hot start for a few seconds. Check engine light eventually and took it in under warranty…code for #3 misfire. Coolant getting in the cylinder for your described issue.. I ended up getting a 2021 brand new engine off the production line …was glad they updated the whole thing instead of just putting a short block in it.
Thank you for helping everyone be aware of these issues. I have a 2013 1.6 escape with 145k and I am unfortunately waiting for this to start happening
I believe he said the problem did not start till the 2017 model year and that the older ones were fine
@@1976axerhand Nope, this design has existed since the introduction of the 1.6 ecoboost (~2012-2013?). In 2017, I assume Ford stopped stopped using the 1.6 in favour of the 1.5. So yeah, the problem "does not exist" before 2017, but thats just an easy way for Ford to say: Tough luck, your warranty has expired -AKA your problem, not ours.
Have 1,6 ecoboost Volvo v40 tuned down to 120 hp. Im at 88234.7 miles. And it run like a dream
@@erikcarlsen3238 my Fiesta ST needed an engine rebuild at about 90k miles (148k km). Not because engine failure, but due to a spark plug seizing in the head and piston rings being sludged up. Besides the misfire situation, the car still drove great with the gunked up piston rings.
@@MHBGT good that i did not buy the original ford spark plug did buy japan spark plugs the most expensive on the websites The only thing my cars problem is its fixed now it the dam washer fluid line that is leaking cheap plastic
They know exactly what they're doing. Almost every Ford model has a class action lawsuit. They still profit. As you said, once repaired it will still fail unless someone re-engineered it for a new engine/ software/ ecu/ legislative processes and we know no one will do that. So Ford, even if they don't do the repairs themselves will make money off of parts or some sales. And recently they just say sorry that part is on permanent backorder. Meaning we've loop-holed our requirements to support a vehicle for a certain number of years. And they know all too well in this day and age you can produce garbage, treat your customers like crap and they'll line up in a couple years time to get a worse deal. Look at Apple.
I don’t think that’s correct. If they can’t fix your car, you can make them buy it back. Lemon laws are different in every state but they cannot screw you. Laws are in place so that it doesn’t happen. The only people who get screwed are the ones who don’t know how to deal with it
Apple keep pushing in design flaws discovered from previous generation models every few models or so..
A corporation can write-off losses and legal expenses. They have very little incentive to "get things right" above an outright consumer boycott (which will never happen). There are just as many pissed off GM consumers going to Chrysler....pissed off Chrysler people going to Ford, etc. all the time.
Likely they collect all the dissatisfied VAG customers who have experienced years of crap with VW FSI, TFSI and TDI also on Skodas, Audis and Seats. Theres common saying: Every day lots of dummies awake in the morning just to be taken in by VW dealers
Not just Ford but all of them. Nearly every vehicle or engine made today has a significant failure point in the design which is not correctable except by a new design which will come from the same people who designed the first failure. And the usual is that if the failed part is such that aftermarket manufacturers can't fairly easily improve and manufacture the failed part better while making a profit means that when the piss-poor OE parts run out all examples of that vehicle or engine become scrap metal no matter how good and useable everything else is.
Same design, with a cooling slit, is used in ford 7.3 Godzilla V8. There's no forced induction and the block is cast iron but still... As the wall between cylinders is under 8 mm thick, I wonder how the longevity of the head gasket will be.
Vibes are great. Plenty here up north. Surprisingly they do not rust very much. I have a 2010 with only 165k on the clock. Bought it with 111K about 3 years ago. I do all the repairs. Prefer the 1.8L engine. Only major problems were the intake cam phaser and starter. I replaced both in my garage easily. It helps a little if you can do your own repairs. These cars are super easy to fix.
Other manufacturers did the same thing. GM added drillings (2) normal to the deck in between the cyc's into the open cavity below to try to get some cooling between the cylinders. Erroneously referred to as "steam ports" they helped -but nominally. The joining of the cylinders adds tremendous strength to the block but also makes the bores go out of round since the bores are not cooled uniformly as they expand due to heat. Aluminum blocks can only be more prone to distortion due to the material modulus. Some people have complained that Siamese cylinders contribute to oil consumption due to the out of roundness. Don't think I would go that far to agree with that. I was a powertrain design engineer (now retired) for a competitor to Ford. Have to say I don't know who validated the slit between the bores like that. Looks problematic and at least prone to plugging.
Plugging was my first thought after head sealing issues. Every automotive liquid cooling system will eventually have built-up deposits so a good design will take that into account. Full cylindrical cylinders and o-ringed head sealing is all that's necessary to fix this. Of course you can't retrofit that. Nor can you retrofit intelligence into humans who can't see the obvious.
I had an old 400 sbc with those steam ports.
@@BruceLee-xn3nn I built several 400 sbc. In addition to the larger displacement due to increased stroke, the short c rod allows for the rod to be at a right angle to the crank while the piston is still higher in the bore and still under greater combustion pressure-helps with torque but increases side loading of the piston in the bore. 511 and 817 are the 2 casting numbers to help identify a 400 sb. The balancer is specific to the 400 as well as the flywheel. The 400 and 454bb flywheels are both externally balanced and look alike but are not interchangeable. These motors can move small buildings in stock trim.
@@johngrein3325 I had one in my 71 nova, it was definitely a torquey motor.
How much cooling can that tiny slit even do?
I've been telling people for YEARS to avoid the 1.5 and 1.6 engines. Also the 1.0
Never had an issue with the 1.0, 5 years of ownership, 35k added to the clock, engine run fine. Problem is, people don’t service them.
@@kd84afc The problem is the rubber oil pump drive belt that fails and then the engine grenades or locks up. We (normally) have a long block in stock or at the local warehouse for them.
Honda does the same thing with the slit between the cylinders. We are also seeing a ton of head gasket failures on the 1.5 turbo engines.
You got me through the dark days of my 5.4 Triton. I became a DIY expert thanks to your tutelage. Some of these engineering decisions are mind boggling. I would venture to bet that top 10 techs on KZhead could design better products based on how many failure points they encounter.
Thank you for pointing out problems like this. John Q Public has no clue these types of failures are out there waiting for them. Any bets that the cross drill modifications fail due to the tiny holes becoming clogged with debris? One would think in the design stage they would make these blocks 1inch longer and give the cyl proper cooling especially since they turbo the heck out of them. Who in their right mind would think this (the slot fix) was ok? I'll give the drill hole fix 30,000 miles before they start overheating and blowing out the new head gaskets.
Mine failed over the last year in my 16 Edge 2.0. Said it had a #4 misfire and I replaced the coil pack on it. Next time I started the car it randomly smoked half the neighborhood out and I smelled Coolant burning. Luckily it was a Certified Ford car so new long block went in it last week and will be getting it back this Wednesday hopefully. Only have to pay for the 100 dollar deductible so I'm actually pretty happy lol. Only 70k miles on the old motor though
Was thinking the same thing. Why not just make the block an inch longer. Why do they always change something that works.
Because that would cost a fortune not only in retooling a foundry, but perhaps in packaging multiple platforms and even more model lines while, here, they can hope the cars blow up after warranty or get junked for bad transmissions or something else before it goes. I also have little faith the holes will be a true fix.
@@mitchkelleher7972 No, why not make it an inch longer from day 1? I guess they decided they had to siamese the cylinder bores for strength and stability, but what kind of graduate engineer then decided it was a good risk to put a slit in the head gasket right where the cylinders join? There's only 2~3mm of gasket either side of the coolant passage.
@@silverbullit89 1/2 inch
Spot on explanation! Really enjoy your videos!
I've got a 17' Escape with the turbo 4 and so far, so good. What are the percentages of these engines with issues? Hoping and praying mine will last. Don't need ANY engine block issues!
I have 2014 1.6 ecoboost 200hp with 336 000km (~210 000 miles) and everything is running perfect stock, I had to replace just valve cover gasket amd maintenance items. It's strong engine (some people push it up to 300hp with stock internals) but very easy to overheat and easy to damage due to too long oil intervals/wrong oil. The cracking occurs due to no/too low coolant. In 2.0 and 2.3 it's different situation and they like to bend rods or piston cracking.
They improved the head design in 16. So they don't overheat as easily as the earlier model.
Drilling that hole isn't going to do much. The coolant volume moving through there will be minimal, and the drilled passage still weakens the cylinder walls. Bandaid on a gunshot wound.
The open deck design has more to do with reducing production costs than cooling efficiency, open deck blocks can be die cast which is much cheaper than sand casting. If you look at all the legendary Japanese turbo motors of the 90s (2JZ, SR20, RB26) they're all closed deck for strength, which is part of why they can produce the power they do. The ecoboost is pretty beefy for an open deck design though, they clearly designed it to take some hefty boost.
open deck is made so that the very top of the bores where the top ring is a few degrees either side of tdc when its at its greatest heat and pressure has the shortest heat path to get to the coolant, if you make it all solid round the top say 12mm of bores then the pistons and rings and ring lands all run hotter. you want your coolant as close as possible to the top 5-10mm of bores.
Agreed
@@mainman2999 But if you treat the piston head with Ceramic then you greatly reduce heat transfer down into the piston and other internals. This is truly the way to go.
you forget to mention the real reason was because the 2jz and Rb26 were cast iron blocks only the heads were aluminum plus the 2jz had extra oil ports on the side of the block to help the oil flow through better. ford uses all aluminum blocks.
You could just tig the slit and resurface. I'm pretty sure it would be fine.
I have a 2017 Escape SE with a 1.5 and I know it has the coolant issue. Whenever I start it up, it usually burns blue smoke at the beginning. The next time I get the old changed, I will be bring it up to Ford.
So very glad I got the Hybrid powertrain in my 2015 Ford Fusion instead of one of the Ecoboost engines.
I absolutely dodged a bullet by going with the S trim 2.5l engine in my 2014 Escape. The 1.6l and 2.0l of the early escapes don't seem to have this problem, but certainly hade plenty of others. 143k and zero problems with the 2.5l drive train.
My 2010 Fusion 2.5L just hit 285,000 miles and it still runs fine!
You can't beat a naturally aspirated engine for reliability which is why i stay away from turbo engines. Turbo engines will fail much sooner than a naturally aspirated engine would.
Very nice vid. My wife’s 2017 Fusion Titanium with the 2.0 turbo had this failure about a year ago with only 38000 miles on the car. Thankfully the power train warranty is still in effect and we also bought an extended warranty (car is used) and the issue was taken care of. New long block. Don’t know if the new motor is the new design so the car will go before the warranty expires.
My 17 Fusion had this issue with about 36K on it in Sept 2019. I was told by the service manager the replacement long-block has the newly updated deck surface with the cross-drilled steam holes, so I would think everyone after around the time I had mine replaced should all be getting the updated motor. I noticed the oil fill cap and neck is a little smaller than the original so it looks a little funny under the top engine cover... and I've also noticed all the newer Fusions, Edges, and Escapes are the same so I assume that's maybe an easily visible sign of the updated engine design.
It’s really good to hear you diagnose the ford coolant issue. I would like to ask a question,😂. My poor edge got the same issue,the mechanic who trying to fix that says they can fill the coolant gap between the cylinder,will that actually help or it will cause more trouble?
Informacion importante para los clientes de la marca Ford y para los talleres que se rompen la cabeza por averiguar por donde es el consumo del liquido refrigerante y el porque sucede este problema. tengo un cliente que cada semana le agrega 1 galon de refrigerante y en el scanner salta la falla DTC P0303 . Muchas gracias por tu aporte y buena suerte. Saludos
It is hard to believe that Ford let's these go without confirming these issues and dealing on the back end, but they do. I have seen 2 of these where I work just in the last week. Not certain it was this exact issue, but I would bet that's the case. Both had head gasket leaks, confirmed by block test and chocolate milk crankcase. Thanks for shedding some light on this.👍👍
Because Ford doesn't care about long term reliability. They hope you just drive it and trade it in within a few years
how do you test for something like this putting that many miles on it to do make it start leaking
The forbidden milkshake!
Is there a block ID number to check which version it is? I don't have one, but I imagine this would be helpful for others getting a new/reman engine. If I was paying, I'd refuse the old design block if that was the one they attempt to install. And I would not trust a salvage engine of the same years.
Love that we're still having CVH era issues in the same exact spot.
Thanks Brian. Great video This just happened to my Daughters 17 Escape with 31,000 on it. It is being fully covered by Ford. New short block. There was no warning light, high temp indication. Car ran fine. She took it in for an oil change and the coolant reservoir was empty. It must of just happened.
Glad to be a Ford tech. I know I'll always have a job.
I'm a service advisor at Ford and right now we have 11 new engines we need to install in various Escapes and EcoSports. Plenty of 3.5s and 2.7s needing VCTs and timing chains too.
Are people aware of this at Ford and are they ashamed of these business practices? Screwing average people… they can afford to give you two broken engines instead of making a good one… politics
just stumbled on your channel and subscribed! Also now worried about my 2019 Ranger with the 2.3L!!!
Great, informative video! What is the definitive way to determine if my 2.0L in my 19 Edge is the updated design or not?
This is a similar problem that came up with Detroit Diesel ‘s first light duty engine. When Penske bought the company they dropped it.
This is similar to the infamous 0331 head failures on 2000/2001 Jeeps, only there it was an actual crack that developed in the head, rather than a blown gasket. Always happened right between cylinders 3 and 4, dead center of the engine. If you took the oil cap off, often you could look straight down and actually SEE the crack!
Happened to my Cherokee. I remember looking at the crack through the oil cap 😂
Thank you for this explanation. I've never really heard or saw exactly the issue explained to me. I have a 2017 1.5 Escape with 71K on it. I did have it reprogrammed to lower boost I guess??? My coolant is always on the minimal mark. If I top it off it will last a few weeks then right back to minimal. Been like that since new. So now I never add to it and it never goes lower then minimal. Weird.
Had this VERY PROBLEM with our 2017 Edge at about 76k. Very expensive since Ford's fix was a full engine swap, and no help whatsoever. Especially when my online research indicated they weren't sure of the problem (that was 2 years ago). Unfortunately, in spite of the fact that I've long been a Ford man, this really soured me on the newer models, since they use these engines in pretty much everything they build.
The same thing happened to be in December at only 52,000 miles. I contacted Ford every way possible as my warranty had just expired in August. No help whatsoever. Basically screwed and $8000 to fix.
This is why I love my 20year old DOHC Zetec Focus. 200k miles, no problem at all. Works like a Swiss clock.
Zetec 2.0 is one of the best car engines Ford made. Plus the torque is really something for a little 4-cyl!
My sister's first Escape was a non Ecoboost, it lasted over 200,000 miles and was running when she sold it. Her second Escape is an Ecoboost 1.6 and she’s on her second engine after 150,000 miles. Not horrible, but there’s an example of the difference in longevity. Every manufacturer currently offers turbo gas engines and many do have their shortfalls, most common being premature wear. Hopefully this changes but only time will tell.
If properly maintained, only getting 150k out of a motor is almost criminal for a manufacturer. Engines if designed correctly should be able to get a minimum of 250k out of them before replacement/rebuild. I'm on 443k on my 2010 Crown Vic with the original engine. The example shown here in this video is just piss poor engineering. The original design of the block should've had those crossovers designed into it, even if it made the engine a little bit longer to keep cylinder wall thickness correct. I have a sneaking suspicion this "fix" on the newer blocks is going to have issues with clogging due to the tiny hole size (unless owners are religious about coolant changes).
@@wrenchrat Given the price of new cars, even boosted engines should last much longer than they actually do. Engines actually pollute more with wear so it really makes no sense to me. Late model cars burn oil like no tomorrow.
I have a 2006 focus with 130000 kms and the engine runs like a top, Im going to keep it running as long as possible. My 2000 Chevy S-10 had almost 400000 kms before I sent it to the scrap yard, the engine (4.3L vortec) and transmission ran perfectly, engine still had lots of pull (fun truck), but everything else was toast. It was rusted all over and the plastic parts were brittle and failing, I was sad to see it go, I wish I had another just like it.
@@wrenchrat for an economical car brand like Ford, who isn't even pushing tech to the limit, i agree. If it was a GT350 it'd be more understandable. But 150k miles is like BMW or Range Rover status 🤔
Did you know the first original lightbulbs lasted for decades? That’s why they built in 1000 hour limit so they fail and you have to buy a new one. Feel stupid yet sheep because they build to fail into EVERYTHING now.
I have a 2019 Escape with the 1.5L and the head gasket just blew on me a few days ago. I was finished work and used the command start to warm it up, went to the car about 10 minutes later and it was overheating (needle was right at max and had lights and warnings) and was running rough. It only had 20800km on it. (12900 miles) Thankfully my dealership is taking care of it with no fuss. Went through Roadside assistance to get it to Ford and they were diagnosing it the next day, and they got me a rental by the end of the second day after it broke down. It sucks, but it could of been a lot worse. I should be getting the final diagnostic just before the new year as well as an ETA on repairs.
Thanks for sharing your knowledge.
Fantastic video and detailed description of the engineering defect and fix. I had to have the 2.0T engine replaced on my 2017 MKZ 2.0T, fortunately under warranty at 45k mikes. Quick question- do they replace just the long block and reuse the existing head or do they replace the block and the head when they do this under warranty?
45K out of a Lincoln.....what a joke. My dad had a 79 Town Car that did 548,000 documented miles. Ford is a pure joke now and I won't near one again.
Those eco boost motors were an option for the Ford Falcon . Choice of the Barra 4ltr 6cyl, or the 2ltr turbo 4 cylinder, in a 1.6ton car. Needless to say, the Evo boosts gave up thel ghost at around 200-250,000km, while the 4ltts can survive upwards of 500-600,000km...or more
A 5 cylinder version of the Barra would have been an interesting compromise.
My 4L has 350 on it and my dad's has done 440k they still run like new and I thrash mine Evey day 😁
Great engine the Aussie Barra 4liter!
Daves , l had my ford falcon xe for 12 years , l had the T piece brake off( coolant) it was picked up & taken to ford dealer & fixed free of charge , under warranty but on year 10 my auto trans packed up & that cost me $500 change over. l'm sorry l got rid of it , it's a collecter car worth big bucks now that ford closed down in Australia 😢
I hadn't heard much about these eco boost falcons reliability ,because not many were sold in 4 cylinder guise. Have they been giving out early, is that what you've heard or experienced? 🤔
Thanks for this video! Very informative.
I used to work as a mechanic for two big american automotive companies...one begins with a C and the other begins with F. I have over 30 years experience as a ASE certified mechanic, I asked a question to one of the very big corporate bosses when he came to visit. I asked him off to the side why the cars the company produced were becoming so unreliable...I swear he said this, why do we want to build a car that lasts 20 or 30 years? We now follow the same marketing as cell phone companies. We only build cars to last maybe 5 to 10 years at most so we keep people coming back and spending more money. For the customers who dont get the warranties they pay the price. I was so shocked i quit working as a mechanic, the corruption is off the charts!
thanks for saying this in english despite not being very surprising.
@@PLAYERSLAYER_22 no problem, just some more food for thought. If a car has any of the following features dont buy it, Auto start stop/ Displacement on demand-cylinder deactivation/Direct injection...all these devices are EPA nonsense and do more damage to the vehicle then help the environment.
And that's why I've been driving Toyotas for the last 20 years
Thank you for showing and explaining the true problems. Time for CEO needs to focus on quality again - REMEMBER “QUALITY IS JOB #1” instead of focusing on maximizing profits for stockholders. Cheaper to build right the first time instead of “RECALLS” that eat away millions out of profits of company and lost customers in the future.
But they'll have left the company with millions before that ever happens. It's all just really elegant and quiet looting.
This problem shows us that the engine manufacturer engineers sometimes do not get it right. Thank you for another great video.
Sometimes🤣🤣🤣
Ford has not gotten it right since they bought Volvo and those engines (2.5t) featured the same tendency of cracks in cylinder walls. It has taken them more than 15 years to figure out.
Sometimes, deliberately.
Engineers are always heavily ham stringed by bad management. Ridiculous cost constraints and time frames. Give them a little more say and things last a long time and are far more repairable.
How dp flaws like this get past so many people in design and testing ?
Surely that hole will crud up over time, they would have been better to lengthen the block by 10mm to give the area required for the gasket, I remember back in the 70's companies were accused of designing in redundancy, thank you for the info. great vlog John
it will, but ford is hoping by then the engine failure from the clogged holes will have at least 250k on them. So everyone will just chalk it up as engine old age.
Had this issue with my 2.3l eco mustang 18 year model. Took 4 months for dealership to replace.
Even with the new design, technicians must use the OE coolant with distilled water. Tap water contains minerals and will clog those tiny cooling passages in between the cylinder walls.
You should use distilled water in any engine, not just these.
This does look like there is corrosion in there which wouldn't be helping things...
@@TonicofSonic I can’t speak for anyone regarding flushing an engine block with tap water. In SW part of the US, we utilize ground water and it’s loaded with minerals. We use soft water to flush the engine blocks.
@@steveg8337 You are right. but most dealers and shops will just use tap/hose water regardless what the engine is.
You can't stop a customer from using tap water. After all its theirs. No matter how much you tell the customers it's wrong to use tap water.
Be interesting to see if this fix holds up, could be prone to cracking and clogging the coolant passage hole.
I agree.... I just see the "fix" as a pre-established crack just waiting to happen (cross drilled hole) and secondly, just wait till it gets blocked by corrosion, etc...... then watch the engine come apart again. band aid fix on a major design problem!
@@jeffalvich9434 And it doesn't help things with the integrated exhaust manifold and the high heat in the middle of the head. No doubt, it can warp.
How many design and management checks and balances had to fail to let that out the door with a lifetime statistic mostly greater than warranty but short enough for negative consumer perception?
its only extra slots, normal,,cars dont have them..plus, if they made the blocks 1/4 longer,,it would matter as ther,d be enough surface area..this is how weight, fuel, epa,greenies fk us up..
@@harrywalker5836 No, it's how bad engineering and poor pre-production testing F it up.
Another great video, thank you, ur a masterful instructor. I owned 2 bay shop out of high school, I had built some Chevy drag racers and sold them, People in neighborhood got to kno i rebuilt a junkyard car while in high school, my first 1955 265ci chevy I rebuilt from scratch, got it from ja unk yard, I used the Clinton Manuels to teach myself. Business took off I had same attitude u do. Do it right the first time or don't do it at all. I didn't advertise didn't have a sign even. Word of mouth, the thieves were same as today. Had to close & goto Vietnam, drafted. Then to college, in retrospect shud have reopened, white collar work sucked. Ted Rabens
I really like your channel. Great info.
Yep! Sure enough on my 2017 Edge with the 2.0 EcoBoost it was throwing a code for Cylinder 3 misfire and Coolant sensor. This happened at about 87,000 miles. Service Advisor calls me - ready to sell me a new engine. I tell him- good thing I bought that extended warranty (90,000 mi 😂). Bing Bong - new motor, FREE OF CHARGE.
My 2016 Focus ST had this failure at about 180k, though I believe it's closed deck (which is partly why I bought it!), though it isn't listed in the TSB or the CA suit. Started it up and blew coolant like a SpyHunter smoke screen. Cleared up a little when it warmed up, but still smoked as if a normal cold start. Car ran completely fine with no sign of head gasket failure and didn't consume much coolant considering, so I thought it was a blown turbo coolant seal. Replaced turbo, still blowing. TSB states to replace block. With the market crazy and people driving junkers longer than they would, I couldn't find anyone to swap the engine around me in a remotely useful timeframe (only car) and I'm no longer bothering to do that heavy work myself, so I sold it (within hours in spite of complete honesty!). The TSB doesn't say what the failure is and the CA suit was written by lawyers who would probably mistakenly put their eyes out if they tried to use a screwdriver, so this was awesome to see, thanks! PS, though it looks like a better solution, I still wouldn't trust that fix. Though I'm wary and not driving one now (GR86), I would still consider another Ford, since the ST was a great driving car and needed nothing but the EGR valve in that 180k miles, which was a recall part, but was so cheap and easy to replace that I just did it myself and my '12 Focus SE (manual transmission) needed nothing at all and ran perfect for over 200k when it was totaled.
Spy Hunter!!!! Played the shiz out of that game back in the day. 👍🏻
Dude my car white smokes like hell when cold and lesser so when really warm, so suggesting coolant mix. I've had the head gasket replaced at ££££ money and it still happens. My car though, on 70k miles on the clock, you were more luck with 180k miles....Me? I bought the car at 64k miles! Been constantly topping it up with coolant, even after new head gasket!
@@CrazyInWeston Sounds like the same problem. Most of the engines that I've read about failing didn't get as far as mine, but I was driving 40-50k miles/year. I think it's a time rather than mileage issue. (Like most things. People judge cars on mileage, but I usually get the same time out of my components-except tires because I drive like a dick-as others get, but I get three times the miles. Even things that would seem more mile-dependent, like suspension, which I don't understand, but it's what I get.) With mine, I had no hydrocarbons in the coolant or coolant in the oil and the engine ran perfect temperature, the exhaust just stank of burnt coolant and it smoked. Both my Fords used a little coolant from new, though, which I was first worried about since this isn't 1985 and these are sealed systems, but as it was such a small amount (barely 1/2 gallon in 200k miles) and a lot of people reported the same thing, I figured it was an odd quirk, but now I suspect the non-turbo engine has the same issue, but it doesn't usually surface maybe since there's less stress in the system (or the cursed DCT sends the car to the junker first, though mine was a special-ordered manual!). Sorry to be the bad-news source, good luck!
On a different note I found the problem with my 02 f150 4.6 and why I had no oil pressure to the right side head, it was a piece of plastic that found it’s way to the number 4 cam bearing cap oil supply port. Now it works like new.
I bought a new '16 Focus with the junk Aisin automated manual transmission. It failed with less than 12k on the car. Needed something reliable, so traded it upside down as hell on a new '18 Fusion SE 1.5l. So far it's been a great vehicle, zero problems in 4 years, but just feels like another time bomb.
I have a '23 Maverick with the Ecoboost 2.0. Glad to hear they fixed that ridiculous design. Any other issues with the newer 2.0 Ecoboost I should be aware of when I take delivery? I know NOT to overheat it and change oil every 3k miles. Thanks for your help.
They seem to be pretty solid now, other than the carbon buildup which is an issue with every direct injection motor. It doesn't harm much of anything though.
The engine had been around roughly 145 years when they designed this engine and it got to the production stage. They never saw the potential issue?!? Wow 🤯
Amazing what junk they can produce these days when they don't care if the car lasts past the warranty period.
@@jayhemfindsyoualways love how people claim older cars were so much better when in reality they weren’t. There are shit cars today and there were shit cars back then
The 70's were good to them.
except nowadays you need to sell 2 kidneys and your child to buy a new car and 90% of the mass consumer engines are shit, yea no thanks, i'll stick to my old engine@@Mow_Lester
Dont think this is same as old engine 4 cylinder....
We had a 2018 Escape with the 1.5 EB. 16k and it had the failure. Ended up trading it while we were waiting a month to locate another failure prone block. We bought our F150 loaner LOL.
I had a v6 santa fe loved it
We had a new 1.6l Long block put in my wife's car last year because of this. Luckily we had extended warranty. Makes me wonder though if the reman motor we got from Ford was the revised version.
same here ... time will tell
Yes it is
@@rays7437 Did the 1.6 Ecoboosts get a new block revision? The only revision I'm aware of is the Cylinder head overheating on the first revision (pre-2014). This lead to cracked heads and oil fires.
@@MHBGT My understanding is that the long blocks are assembled to order as needed, and include all revisions possible at the time. The warranty on them is 36 months regardless of miles driven. If you had it installed at a Ford dealer then you will have gotten all applicable software updates and the revised HOAT coolant. I would still change the coolant at 3 year intervals, however. Also don't go 7500 on oil changes, do them at 5000. Don't use conventional oil
Nice to see the youngster learning from KING FORD!!! Take it all in kid, your dad is the best! Wishing you the best.
We are taking our 2017 Ford Edge Titanium into the mechanic on the 18th of Sept, 2023 for this exact same issue. Have a couple of questions, if possible: 1. What year has the most updated version of the engine fix? 2. Is there a serial # or any other form of identification # we can get from either the mechanic or our paperwork showing which updated engine we received? The mechanic is replacing the long block, turbo, water pump, tension pulley and several other parts & belts. Thank you in advance for any info that may help us.
I had a ford dura torque diesel engine. I loved it, no problems at all
I have a 2011 Mondeo with the 1.6 ecoboost with 160hp. Driven 220.000 km with it. Sofar no big issues, the coolant hoses to the intercooler were replaced twice because the started leaking. Part of the cooling system was replaced with a recall a few years back. It drives really nice and comfortable, here in Holland at 100 or 130 and in Germany at higher speeds. No problems, no need to top up oil or coolant between annual services (15 to 20k).
What I find really interesting is that the head gasket problem is only on the open deck Ecoboost engines. On the closed deck Ecoboost like the 2.0l in the focus ST those engines can really take a beating before giving up.
IMHO all open deck blocks are bad design. And they've had issues for decades.
Did you know the first original lightbulbs lasted for decades? That’s why they built in 1000 hour limit so they fail and you have to buy a new one. Feel stupid yet sheep because they build to fail into EVERYTHING now.
@@johnnicol8598 an open deck is definitely inferior on boosted applications.
I've done some stupid stuff to the motor and tranny and both are running just fine. 6-2ed it instead of 6-4 rev-matching. Went from 3k to 5.5k rev match to over 9k at 70 mph at 35k 4 years ago. The aero louvers in front of the radiator failed to open after a bird jammed them closed in the hottest part of the summer in Oregon at 105 F and the coolant got up to 280 F with the oil also up to 280 F. Ford did wonderful with the 2.0L Eco on the STs and have heard nothing but great things about them, but horror storries about everything else except the closed deck 2.3L Ecos. Car just passed 100k and still running strong.
@@perrytilton5221 famous last words. I was bragging about my 2000 4runner passing 350,000 and that same day the front wheel decided to go somewhere without me.
Thays why I went with Toyota 5 years ago and I been happy no problems no worries .
Not everyone can drive a home appliance without the urge to kill themselves. :)
@@BojanBojovic Peace of mind is a bad thing?
it amazes me that Ford would think such a design would work at all. Unless they designed it to fail.