We discuss the differences between various LS pumps and take you inside the 10296 and m365 to make our case for which is better!
We discuss the differences between various LS pumps and take you inside the 10296 and m365 to make our case for which is better!
Great content, something new I learn thanks to you 👊
Thanks for the information man my LS1 pump just messed up on me yesterday
That Frank's red hot sauce needs no explanation. Say no more my guy I'm sold.
Perfect! Lol I found your video looking for 10355 gear info... you answered my question if the 10355 gears would fit in a 10296
Great video would be cool to be able to buy a kit with the pump baffle upgrade and crank scrapper
instead of micro-polishing the gears, Powernation recomends drilling a dimple in the side of each gear lobe and that therefore allows a space for oil to pool and the gear floats on a film of oil on each side of the gearlobe... SEEM LEGIT?
Righteous Content Brother, Refreashing an L94 (Dod Delete) w a BTR Cam, Johnson Lifters, Springs, Head Work, Ti-Chain ect for Swap into 80 Series Land Cruiser~ Looking for Dependability n Longevity (One Day, I Stroke to 416)
Awesome video. Your knowledge is key. I have a 2001 ls 6.0. bought it with what was told to have 130,000. I'm going to go through it with new gaskets and seals. Thinking timing chain and oil pump while it's out. What pump would you recommend. TIA
Cam motion!! Rocks 👍
If the oil pump came with shims for shimming the pump it would be a nice touch too
Just use .002 feeler gauges.
That's a good idea. I'd buy one
engine masters did a very good test on these
My only addition would be that if you go w/ a high volume oil pump, you would be well served if you got an increased volume oil pan, as well, as I've heard that the standard volume pans can run dry at sustained high RPMs. Summit lists both pumps as "high volume", however they list the 10296 as "high pressure", while the 365 is listed as "standard" pressure. Odd that the 365 provides better flow at RPMs. To those customers that always ask, "How much?" Your reply should merely be, "Speed is a function of the depth of your pockets; how deep are your pockets?"
I’m releasing an external electronic oil pump runs parallel in wet sumps with a self leveling 4 quart tank and programmable oil pressure at all increments with its own monitor that can show psi, duty cycle, rpm, and check system if you have a wet sump pump failure and it will keep the shrapnel out. Adds a remote filter, expanded for dedicated oil feed for turbos elimination of restrictors on a loop with the cooler that has a brushless fan and regulates temps with variable speed pump. Allows remote mount of the tank anywhere and when you run dry sump you Can mount the big tank anywhere with the electric pump pressure hose parallel to the dry sump feed line, so it connects right after the pump so it’s lubed and has a moment to get oil that far away. Eliminating all wear from oiling and dry start
powernation did several upgrades to their LS oil pump, one was a washer under thspring supposedly increasinfg pressure, and one was porting the pump , the other was dimpling the gear lobes thinking this woul allow both sides of the gear to float in an oil pocket and see less friction what s your opinion on that?
So, where are we at with the CNC ported pumps? Also, any look into dimpling?
Question, You mentioned that you now always install the M365 pump on your builds...do you mean on actually everything? From stock cam swaps to mild FBO boosted to wild max effort builds? I'm just curious because obviously the bearing clearances wouldn't be the same for each of those engines, and I'm just concerned about to much volume or pressure that could damage the bearings/rotating equipment. Is there such a thing as too high of oil pressure?
At what rpm are the pump efficiencies decreasing? Where is the width added to the housing in order to accommodate the thicker gears? Will these pumps fit with a double roller timing sets behind the stock timing cover?
Which heads are you gonna port on that truck 5.3? 706s? can i put thinner head gasket to significantly raise compression and still run 87 octane? i have an LM7 in my 84 cutlass. Besides larger single short exhaust and new fabbed up intake and electric fans its basically stock with stock tune too but running rich in open loop.
Melling list an M365 and an M365HV....but you say the M356 is already High Volume. Any thoughts on the right pump for road-course racing? It looks like the M365HV comes with multiple pressure springs. Thanks
Great video keep it up I would purchase a CNC version .
Lots of new CNC products coming! Check the latest teaser uploads and like/share!
What would you recommend for an offroad rig that will be at angles. I would be afraid with the bigger volume pump emptying the pan which would be bad as well.
Hello great info like to knw if u started putting out the pumps yet
Not sure if you’re talking about M365 stock platform or if you’re talking about M365HV because those pumps are totally different and differentiate in internal specifications…. Which pump exactly are you referring to? M365 or M365HV??
Good afternoon. Does the wear of the diameter of the driven gear socket greatly affect the pressure and performance?
Melling's website is only showing the M295/M295HV as compatible with my 02 suburban with a LM7 Vin T (Non-flex). The height and width are different between the m295 and M365. Do you know if I'd run into an clearance issues on my stock setup? I'm opening up the timing cover due to leaks and thinking that I can replace the oil pump while its open, not sure if its completely necessary though.
They work on all LS engines except for dry sump setups. Running this on my Dart twin turbo 406”
My LS pump failed last month. The pump bypass stuck open. From the research I can find, it looks like it's caused by debris. I didn't see any debris or other contamination. I'm wondering if the aluminum body & steel piston has something to do with it. Maybe temperature causes the piston to stick as steel & aluminum have different expansion rates. Do they make cast iron pumps for the LS engine? If not, I'm thinking about sleeving the bypass bore with a steel sleeve.
I have a question regarding a pump I need. I have a 2001 5.3 block it’s getting forged internals and all the good stuff with a single turbo which pump would you recommend me ? I have heard ppl using the wrong pumps and all
For an L33 do you recommend the M365HV for just the M365
Thanks for explaining the difference of the pumps. I’m ordering a 408 lq9 short block soon. How do I order the m365 with your additional improvements.
TheFiremancarl I’ll make them available right after the cnc program is done. Check out the port work on my Instagram @garageguy
@@thegarageguy8712 thanks brother I’ll do that
Ivan J California yes. Other than dry sump systems in LS9/7, all LS oiling systems are the same so any of the wet sump pumps work for any engine
Ivan J California yes, you can shoot me a text or call and I can get one going.
Any updates on these pumps?
Would you recommend a m365 pump on cammed LS3 with stock clearances? I’m a numb to this stuff and just trying to figure out how to make LS swap as reliable as it can be. The engine has got 550hp to the crank. Any info would be helpful, I appreciate your videos!
Is there any specific reason to desire more oil pressure? The m365 is a replacement for LSA oil pumps, and DOD/VVT pumps. It offers 30% more volume over standard. The 10355 is the performance version that’s has a higher psi spring and that makes the psi extreme in some cases. I’ve seen the pressure at hot idle go from 21 or so to 47psi in factory LS3 cars with the oil bypass in the pan also removed. I don’t see any issue using this pump, but it’s not a fix if there was a sudden change in oil pressure that indicates the potential for engine bearing damage. Sometimes people engage in wishful thinking like adding a catch can after they get extreme blow by in a boosted car due to fuel/tune problems that damaged the engine. So it’s a good pump to use, but not to mask any issues that would warrant a rebuild or Further diagnosis
But yes I use them for sure in cam swaps. I like the oil psi increase hot idle.
I’m currently rebuilding and installing a cam for future boost and I have the options of the 365 and the 365hv is the video about the 365hv version? It’s a l76 from my g8 that i will add boost down the road. Thanks
Just the m365. It’s already HV by 30% so more than enough. There are a few pumps in the catalog that share the same rotors.
@@thegarageguy8712 huge fan on instagram! Thanks for the reply and info sir.
M365HV is not an option, but crucial for LSA/LS9 engines w/ piston oil squirters.
Whats your thoughts on elgin 1860p sloppy stage 2 cams for a LM7 in a cutlass thats 2000 lbs lighter than its donor avalanche?
apparently it doesnt require any new parts like springs or pushrods etc, maybe just new timing cover gasket?
I put a M365hv on a stock rebuild 5.3l single turbo not realizing what that pump was really for. 60psi hot idle and 130 revving in neutral to 6k. I’ll be swapping it out. 10295 the next time around.
Is it a 10355 ? Has the stock spring? The pump is stock on LSA engines name any vvt or DOD engines. It will raise the pressure for sure and yours is the highest I’ve seen. Did you take it apart for cleaning or porting? Maybe the relief valve is stuck? That’s really elevated. I don’t think it’s harmful per se but it’s eating some power to work against it and I’m sure the turbo doesn’t need that pressure either
It’s on these stock DOD 5.3 Gen4 engines and we do a cam swap and dod delete and have never seen pressure like that on the dyno.
So with a stock 5.3 gen4 with dod and I’m bout to do a delete on the dod and put a chunk Norris cam so what pump will be the best one in my 07 Yukon
Watched this video with headphones and kept yelling at my dog to shut up. Poor guy didn't do a thing. 😂
Do melling pump have dirt inside?
Hi will the m365 work in a 2011 Tahoe 5.3?
I'm doing a rebuild on a lq4 what's best pump to use
I am bulding a 427LSX with turbo do i a have too put the 10355? And cancel the valve in the oil pan? And just put bolt there?
No you can use whatever you want. Aftermarket blocks offer great oiling systems so sometimes you don’t need higher volume. I’ll detail my new build!
@@thegarageguy8712 so if i cancel the relief valve inside the oil pan no problem?
Hey Great video man. Is the m365 just the m365 or is it the HV? Will these bolt right on to my 4.8 IV 2009 chevy? Thanks
Yeah I had the same thoughts
There are 2 versions, the m365 is a (std high volume pump) the m365 HV is a higher volume version of the m365 which offers 20% more volume over the m365. for a total of 58% over stock.
@@paulwright5867 See above.
I have an LS2 and on start up idle it reads 50-60 PSI and when I’m on it it goes up to 80+ psi , any ideas on what I can do? Mods: Texas speed baldeagle cam Longtube headers
That's good psi
I did my camswap back in 2018. I was struggling choosing either one of these two pumps, but my shop told me to choose the 10296 because they have good expertise on this on theyre cam swaps on gen4 ls systems. Anyway, I rev my car not over 6500rpm, limiter is set on max 6400rpm. If my 10296 goes bad, I know I swap to the m365...
It probably won’t ever go bad so you should be good to go
@@thegarageguy8712 Thank You, that gives me peace in mind. I appreciate Your work
How do u clean a mellin pump i heard they have dirt inside them vramd new and must be cleaned before installing
I’ve never seen an instance with dirt inside no.
What’s the actual part number from jegs Amazon or summit? There are a few. m365 Or m365HV Do you have a link you recommend? I am running a supercharged LSX. Mid range boost. I had the pump on right and did have issues. With the gears rubbing the face of the cover. I did shim the gears to the outer housing and the crank. Anyways. Do you have a link to order
Where do I get the M365 at?
2:00 - 2:50 This is what I'm currently going through. Low oil pressure at idle, but fine at high rpms. Can you clean out oil pump to get the flow back? I have the OEM oil pump for a L99.
Did the oil pressure change? No, Oil pumps don’t get clogged or dirty. The oil pressure relief valve can get stuck open, but that’s not likely your issue. What is your oil pressure and is this a change from what it was?
@@thegarageguy8712 Thanks for the response. At idle, between 10psi and 5psi. It starts up fine in the 30s and 40s then slowly drops the warmer the engine gets. When I press the gas the rpms rise as well as the oil pressure but then drops when I let off. This is coming after a cam swap. current miles 138k
That’s low. Did you replace the oil pump, cam retainer plate, etc with the swap? You cannot reuse things like oil pump orings, so if you did that’s where I would start. But internal damage like a bad bearing will cause similar pressures. If you didn’t use a new oring or the correct size, or if the oring is damaged, you will have issues. The pressure is pretty low, it’s possibly rebuild time
@@thegarageguy8712 Yeah i'm taking it to a shop on 10/26 to diagnose the oil pump and possibly replace it (that's why I'm trying to figure out a good pump for a stage 3 cammed L99). If thats not it, then it would probably be a bearing. But no engine noise or metal shavings in the oil.
Oil pumps don’t fail in this manner. Usually what happens is the relief valve sticks open and it would have low or no pressure when you start it. When the pressure drops as the oil warms it suggest something is worn. Can be a main bearing and you may not see shavings in the oil because they will get sucked into the pickup tube and pumped into the filter. What we do is use a tool to cut the filter open. I wouldn’t pay for all that work right away. Is this a stock engine? Has it seen low oil levels? Has it been driven hard/donuts etc with lower oil levels-anything that could cause temporary oil starvation?
I have the left pump and I hold 65psi hot idle
Does the 10296 come with a stock GM cover? I noticed the 355 had a part number in it and melling 10296 didn't? So all these start as GM cores?
I had 40 psi at start up , but after a few heat cycles pressure fell to 20 psi and would barely got to 25 psi. What do you think I screwed up
What was it before? Done in the car? Maybe the o ring. What’s also the motive to swap? Was there any issue with the engine? Low Oil psi can indicate bearing wear or damage, spun cam bearing, etc
@@thegarageguy8712 the engine was 38-40 at idle, before tear down. Did a cam swap, and had 40+ for first two start ups . I did use the old cam plate, looked good but definitely flatter than new one I just bought. New GM o-ring, and she did have 40 psi at startup then it fell off
@@thegarageguy8712 absolutely frustrating because it’s in a C5 and have to tear it all down again to guess what might have gone wrong.
@@mptorecon there is not much that can go wrong. Bad oring, wrong oring. It has to have a leak. Can be loose cam retainer plate if you did a cam swap and forgot to torque to 18ft/lbs. If these were all done at one time just check.
@@thegarageguy8712 yes sir, in it right now, just bought the 10296 and a new plate and had to buy a balancer puller to get the ati super damper off. Thanks for the help brother.
ok question for anyone. what is the main diff in the m365 and m355 ?
Do they sell johnson lifters for hydraulic cams?
Yes and they are awesome
If the bypass is designed to continuously remain open at idle then if you increase the spring pressure 'it will' raise oil pressure .. even if you weld it shut .. it will increase pressure .. welding it shut could crack a housing or blow a seal.
where I buy one in the market for better oil pump
Any updates? Still using m365?
I've been looking on AutoZone and they don't even offer the m365 just m-295, m-295HV, 10295, and 10296... I'm putting it in my work truck but better oil pressure is always better... The 365 is not compatible with my truck I have a 05 GMC Sierra 5.3 can't I just increase the tension on the spring and also the one in the pan to increase pressure... I've seen a lot of ppl doing that and increasing pressure that way...
You can put any pump on any application. The rotors in the m365 are also in the high volume LSA pump and the pump from many DOD VVT cars. The spring can improve pressure by restricting the bypass sure. The m365 improves pressure by trying to move more oil. I like it because of the rotor design that doesn’t show cavitation like regular LS pumps
I’m having trouble I’m wondering if anybody can help me I installed a stage 2 cam kit in my 5.3 and for some reason after driving for a few months my oil pressure sensor keeps blowing the small o ring I’ve replaced the oil pressure sensor multiple times and I’m thinking it’s because of the high volume high pressure (10355). Any suggestions TIA
I would swap to the lower pressure spring in the pump and get a GM sensor. You can probably just drop the pan only to access the relief spring plug. With that high volume gear set and the higher psi spring, your oil psi is prob really high.
@@thegarageguy8712 I replaced the spring also which I think was a yellow one which would decrease it by 10psi and it still didn’t do it
Does this pump work for dod/afm?
Does a mod need to be done on the oil pan
The mod isn’t needed but I recommend it. It’s a bypass valve that drains oil back to the pan bypassing the engine. It’s unfortunately present in non DOD/VVT oil pans so they could simply make one pan for applications that had dod and non dod/VVT variations like the 5th gen camaro, or the G8 GT/GXP.
How is the pump cnc project doing ??
It didn’t work. The company didn’t have a 5 axis so part of the program wasn’t able to run. But I work at CPR engines and we have 5 axis machines so I may revisit it. We have roamer arms and ways to digitize it and make tool paths so it’s possible to cnc them.
im kinda confused on your info here... i know when i put spacers on my spring for my oil pump i gained 10 psi at idle and throughout the rpm rise. stock spring at about 48-52psi starts to bleed off so saying a stiffer spring does not gain you more pressure is in fact false...
The only way this pump increases pressure is through higher rpm. The spring increases max pressure the pump can produce or a limit. Hope this helps
Ok. I appreciate the information. I’ve not tried to increase the pressure with stiffer springs and what you shared is possibly accurate. I’ve always viewed the spring as helping to keep pressure in check with higher engine speeds, but I can see how the bypass could be active down low too especially with higher volume pumps.
What pump and how many spacers did you use ?
@@elulysero8863 stock pump.
@elulysero8863 I'd have to look but I used as well as a bunch of other guys we just use small washers.
Im following you on instagram, how can i get ahold of you and order up a sick pump
Isn't the M365 just a standard flow and pressure pump?
No, it’s 30% increased volume over standard. It’s a replacement for DOD equipped vehicles and LSA engines as those had high volume pumps from the factory.
@@thegarageguy8712 That's weird, it's not saying that on the melling website, says standard flow standard pressure? what the hell!
It's a standard flow/pressure for a DOD/AFM motor. It is a "high flow" pump compared to the factory non VVT/AFM engines.
@@BUZDRIFT it’s 30 percent higher than standard LS pumps and is standard volume for oem DOD/LSA/VVT. So they will say it’s standard volume but it’s much more than the 10296 even and it’s the highest volume LS wet sump pump I’m aware of.
What about the LQ9, will thus fit??? What's best for LQ9???
Hello well wouldn’t you know it you don’t find things out till several years down the road. I’m now hearing that the 2007 and 2008 1500 truck 5.3s are the bad motors. My truck a 08 1500 has low oil pressure and I have changed the oil pressure switch and screen twice. The first time it help the second time no it didn’t help less than 20 lbs at idle and around 35 to 38 hot 🥵. Truck only has 156069 miles on it oil and filter change every 3000 miles. I have no idea if the O ring on the pick up tube could or would be bad that mounts up to the pump. Debating weather or not to replace the pump so can the pump that you said that would help bring the pressure back up which I didn’t catch the number because I was having a hard time hearing the number with you called it out one was a 5 and one a 6 and I think the lighter colored one was the one I would need but the way you where talking it may not be bought over the counter LS-M 355 or LS-M 356 you tell me because I’m not sure. Thanks Wayne in Watkinsville Ga
The pump isn’t to correct a change in pressure. The changes can indicate wear in the engine bearings that let flow increase past the larger clearances. Do you abuse the truck? Does the psi raise normally with RPM? I like the GEN4 engines
Yes I take good care of the truck oil changes and filter every 3000 mile and some Chevy dealership said every 5000 and no I’m 72 years old and I don’t rawhide the truck. Some say it could be the o ring on the pickup tube that goes in to the oil pump. Some say 07,08,09 were lousy 5.3s
@@waynecasper5346 Hope you figured it out by now. The 5.3 in those 07 even up till 2021 have 'Displacement on Demand'. They are ok motors, but start running into troubles in the high 100k ranges. The lifters tend to collapse. As far as oil pressure, check the 'O' ring. These do harden and crack! Think if you go this route and you're higher mileage, may as well try this pump too. There's also a relief valve in the oil pan that you may want to swap out for a new one too. The internal spring may wear out. Hope that helps a little.
@@20tea any word of hidden problems with the 6 liter and anyway at my age I didn’t want invest more money and my time and labor in it
@@waynecasper5346 The 07 and 08 year 6.2 liter are non DOD. 09+ 6.2s are AFM/DOD. I think, but not sure operate the same as the 5.3 DOD. Think there is also a hybrid 6 liter that also is DOD. I love my 07 6.2! Think the best thing to do with DOD vehicles is to get a get a plug in tuner to disable the DOD/AFM as a way to get constant use of those lifters and cylinders. Best think to do, maybe when rebuilding, is to remove DOD all together then it would be a solid motor.
i just bought a new gm pump
Gloves...safety first
The one on the left has eight teeth and the one on the right has Nine! Why didn't you address that?
I think that is why the m365 doesn’t show cavitation issues. Makes more volume with less pulses so it’s as if it’s running at a lower pump speed and still moving more volume. Good observation something I also noted later after this video was made
M365 is fit for Chevrolet caprice ppv v8 6.0 vin2 2013 engine L77