what they didn't tell you about dust collection
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Commercial electrician here, you can custom shape bends into PVC using a heat gun or propane weed torch. It takes some practice to not scorch the pipe with either option, but you can get whatever wide bend radius you need that way. All you really need are fittings. (Note: you should probably do it in a well ventilated area)
This is also a common method to join pieces of pipe without using couplers. Heat one of the pipes then jam the other part into the heated pipe once it's soft.
That’s exactly what I was thinking. I do it all the time with 1/2 and 3/4 conduit, would take more heat but would be so clean looking and with smooth transitions.
You can also modify PVC pipe by submersing it in boiling water. This eliminates the risk of marking the PVC.
@@derrickpierce4440 And it also reduces the risk of burning the pipe and letting chlorine fumes out.
If you have a form, you can also heat up sand in the oven, pour it into the pipe and bend the pipe. We did this with 2" PVC to make a 5' tall silhouette for a band competition.
A vital detail you missed is that most 'shop vacs' don't collect the very fine and most hazardous dust. The European industry standard for wood dust is M or
There are lots of hepa filter options for common dust collectors, and using bags helps a lot so that the air reaching the filter is better to start with. I installed a hepa gortex filter from LV, and it works better, than my hepa house vac. A lot of the older vacs were pretty useless, and spewed air until the filters clogged up with dust, just as you say.
As a dust collection dabbler, one thing to point out for smaller tools is that static pressure is more important than flow. Miter saws are great examples - high flow dust collectors are much less effective than a small extractor or vacuum. Awesome video, Scott!
Do you happen to know how I can improve the dust collection on a miter saw? I feel like you’re a smart guy who might know.
@@WoodcraftBySuman If only someone 3d printed dust chutes for miter saws.
What if you had both? High flow, and high static pressure. Might this be the solution to miter saws?
Dust Collection Dabbler - someone needs a new sign in their shop 😂
@@WoodcraftBySumanI’m looking at a dust shroud, making my own or buying one.
I will humbly disagree with one point. Those hanging air filter thingys (I have a Jet 1000B) do a great job of removing dust from the shop ambient air. Making one with a box fan would be an alternative, but I'm lazy so....
Same. Scott must have a few hamsters on his air filtration system bc the one in my shop works really well.
@@WoodcraftBySuman I think they are missrepresented here, they are for the ambient air while the collectors are more to not make the ambient air bad... they take whats missed and make the air good after a while while the collectors try to not make the air bad from the beginning
Hey, I'm lazy too, but also cheap! I had a spare 20" box fan. I grabbed a "contractor grade" 20x20x2 from HD for like $10 (I'd have loved to have found a deeper one, but 2" is still going to be way better on flow than 1") that was "FPR7 " (meaning MERV 11 - not quite "virus particle" grade like MERV 13, but good enough for very fine particles). Now here's the real trick - no making fancy brackets or whatever, I just hot glued that sucker on the back, and in the correct orientation (within 2 tries). 5 minutes of work, great seal, and when you need to swap the filter some isopropanol spritzing will have the glue disintegrating easily.
I looked at some of those box fan designs, then I made a surprising discovery. Box fans seem to be ubiquitous in the US, but I've yet to find anyone who sells them in the UK. I have no idea why, but they just arent a thing here.
@@numberkruncherr look up Air purifier for Wood shops 😉
The volume of information packed into this video is wild! As for me, I've been in a creative hibernation, but your call-out is the wake-up call I needed. Stay tuned!
get to work 😏
I'm in the 80% solution camp (Shop vacs vs anything better.) Further, I found shop vacs in thrift stores, garage sales, and estate sales for about $20/unit. (No two ever alike, for some reason.) I've cleaned up a dozen or so, bought cheap foam cylinders and bags on Amazon, and have dedicated one to each tool. Works good enough for me.
Many of us could go that route. You also have the option of opening a garage door and turning on a fan. That said, if you use a shop often or daily, I can see a much cleaner shop environment, not having an 8th of an inch of dust blanketing every square inch of the shop.
Me too. I have three in my shop. I also have a hop vac dedicated to cleaning out the fireplace. But the shop vac does not stop the tiny dust that will kill ya, maybe makes it worse, so running a hose from the exhaust out the door will help with that and also make it quieter.
as a garage woodworker with a 2hp Harbor Freight dust collector and Rigid shopvac...the explanations in this video were greatly appreciated. i did install a WEN air cleaner (hung from the ceiling) a few months ago and find that it does an excellent job of clearing the air of any residual dust particles
Me too, in all respects, except that my stuff is in the basement. I'm pretty happy with the ceiling-mount WEN, judging only from the amount of pine-colored crud that is on the filter when I change it every few months or so.
Great vid, Scott! The biggest difference between shop vacs and dust extractors is CERTIFICATION. Extractors have to meet OSHA and NIOSH (or HSE standards for Europe) requirements, performance and engineering standards which are expensive! Plus they have to engineer a bunch of redundancies and failure modes. You can get a HEPA bag for a shop vac and get very similar performance, but it’ll never meet Health and safety engineering requirements. For personal use, it doesn’t matter. But if employees are using them, certification is required in most places.
I don't want to be rude, but the planer experiment/discussion at the start is dead wrong for most people. It is based on your old equipment. It's like watching someone demonstrate standard car problems on a Model T. Your planer is nothing like the the common DW735, the most popular lunchbox planer, and I suspect based on every video I've seen this is true on any modern planer. With the right hose size adapters, you'll the shop vac will collect all the dust from the rear dust chute. While I wouldn't go back to it, I did use my cheap wet/dry vac on the planer when I first started. Any not-completely-terrible modern wet/dry vac will probably work. The only reason I have have to collect dust manually, now with the dust collector or with a shop vac, was that I forgot to turn it on (or open a gate). It's been a while, but I can't remember any major dust problems with the shop vac. There are plenty of reasons, including power, to use central dust collection. Capacity is a major one. While I advise moving to dust collection if you have a planer, a normal shop vac will work on a normal lunchbox planer if you need it.
The general rule still applies. Match hose sizes to the tool outlet. It's also an example, and many of us have/are going through of phase of fixing up old tools.
@@arthurmoore9488 He's running the hose in open air for the smoke. This is nonsense. Then he's showing a portable dust collector hose sitting next to a planer head. Not even a shop vac size. I can't even imagine trying to do that on the DW735, although some of the less deep planers I suppose you could stick a hose in. It would be crazy, dangerous, ineffective. The DW735, despite appearances, always adapts down from 4 inches. That's the design. I don't remember if it's 2.5" or 2.25" like a wet/dry hose or smaller at the connection. If you have an older planer and the dust vac won't go, you have to consider all of your equipment. He's asking you to invest in a system much more expensive than a new planer. Yes, hose sizes matter. Yes, I think you should have dust collection on any reasonable sized shop, but the planer demo is just wrong.
Your Dewalt has a built in fan that does the bulk of the initial extraction.
If you have the time and motivation, you can actually get quite good dust collection on a table saw with just a shop vac if you seal up all the openings. I used plywood and foam tape to seal between the cast iron and body, silicone caulked cracks, and magnetic sheets to block off the angle adjust slot.
Couldn't agree more.
dude bought a shop for his dust collector.
Good for him
Why always criticizing everyone? Stick to your videos men
@@ingecan6331 it’s in good fun. We collaborate and work together on content creation. Notice the time stamp on my comment vs when the video was actually released.
No, no, Suman. I think he's right. You secretly hate Scott.😂
@@ZacBuildsI think Scott deleted my response just so this looks more like pure hate comment from me 😂
I use a two stage dust collector with an excellent filter and home heating ducts. That includes all the machines. It also works well reduced down for the belt sander. Flexible hose is very lossy compared with smooth walls. A long cone can convert quantity of flow in a pipe from. Q=pA. Where p , pressure and A is pipe area. As area is reduced pressure difference increases and therefore velocity. Naturally, transitions show the largest pressure losses. There are good HVAC tables out there to use.
Scott, if the smart boost compensates for flow restriction you should be able to see a difference in current draw. A multimeter could tell you which system is more restricted.
Glad I saw this! I recently bought a 1 HP dust collector. I ended up buying a nice flex hose but have been considering installing ducts like you did. I haven’t really been too serious about that yet as it seems to get most of the dust from my table saw and all of it from the planer and router table. This is great info!
I bought a _cheap_ dust collector from Harbor Freight that resembles the one shown at 1:17, except the motor is at ground level. Everything about it was obviously cheaply made, down to the crunched up packing material that was insufficient to stop the motor from shifting around, and the sheetmetal base that would bend easily. But when I plugged in the motor to test it, the air blast, even without a proper nozzle, was awe-inspiring. It blew the dust off the textured ceiling in the living room, 8 feet up.
5:08 - The Festool CT-15 is identical to the MIDI, from an actual dust extraction point of view (just comes without the storage, brake, filter-cleaning lever, wireless control and anti-static hose). A couple of those can be bought separately and installed later. And it's around 300 euros. Also, you can add a zipper to the self-cleaning bags and reuse them up to 10 times or so. In fact, some people are selling them pre-zippered on eBay and similar sites.
Hi Scott, happy to help and thanks for the shoutout! Great video packed with amazing knowledge! That smoke test is an awesome idea 💯 - well done as always!
Interesting. And I think you're right in a small workshop a single flex hose moved between all your tools would be as effective as installed duct work. That's been my experience since I switched to a single hose as a stop-gap after a shop re-organisation made my installed duct redundant. I've taken it down now and have no plans to revert back.
A very comprehensive review and recommendation for "OPTIMAL" dust management in any shop, especially a serious DIY workshop. You did a good job of emphasizing there is no such thing as "ONE SUCKER FITS ALL" when it comes to dust collection in a workshop!
Wow. I don't think you left a single thing out of your video. All was easy to digest and relevant. GREAT VIDEO!
Thanks Scott for the video. Very timely for me personally as although I’m not moving out of my shop like you did, i am pretty much pulling everything out of my shop and putting it back in a different arrangement. I’ve just used a 4” flex hose carried to about half my tools and the other half are on the automated 4” blast gates. One things I really value in my shop was getting an air quality monitor. I ended up getting the Dylos unit and although a bit clunky in terns of user interface has a very solid measuring down to 0.5 um. I was frankly blown away at the poor air quality I was dealing with even with a decent dust collection system with Hepa filters. I ended up building a MERV 14 DYI air filter using eight 16x20 filters. My unit is on wheels and i end to push it around to whether I’m creating the dust or even if I’m painting either with clacker cans or with my HVLP. The air filter system as measured by my Dylos monitor says I can have the cleanest air in my entire house on my garage and much clearer than outside! Hey question - I’ve noticed you have a mini split. I also installed a mini split and my HVAC friend of mind cautioned me that those things clog up quickly and badly in a shop. I’ve kept an eye on mine and have seen guys build air filter boxes around the air intake. I’m just monitoring mine but curious if you or others have had problems. Finally, i think the reason I’d really like to not have a flex hose dust solution i move from unit to unit is the floor hazard. I’ve had to get aggressive on my own personal policy of keeping the walking areas free and clear in my shop as I’ve once got tripped up in my shop and came close to hitting my head on the corner of my band saw cast iron table and that would have been a terrible day. Cheers
As usual Scott, informative, clearly stated and at the very end entertaining.
Get big Electrical sweeping 90 degree PVC fittings. One of the things you also need to figure out is what tools you are going to be using. Most of my work is with sheet goods. So in my new shop I have a 5hp shop vac connected to a dust operator and a swing arm made from PVC that attached a 1.5" hose for my table saw. or a 27mm hose for my sander/track saw/ router, For my drill press, and miter saw, I have dedicated bucket head vac that I got from Walmart for $13, regularly $28, (2hp) With Rockler flex hose fittings. I also use a 20" box fan with an air filter for collecting fine particles. It works for my smaller shop, but I still have filtering dust masks for really dusty operations. When I convert to spray painting, The box fan gets hung over the window in the shop door, and depending on what I'm painting, I use a 8" fan (off season buys at $8 each) to pull the air from my table top cardboard spray booth through a air filter in the back of my cardboard box, or to pull air form my high up windows into the shop for larger jobs. All in all, I've spent close to about $350 for various hoses, PVC, air filters, fans and vacuums.
This was the right video, with the right content, at the right time with the right links included. Well done.
Thank you very much Stefan!
You‘re right!
Really good vid, Scott. Thanks for the work you put into this primer and comparison of the different approaches/methods available to help keep that stuff out of our lungs. I learned a few things, for sure. This is the first video of your`s I`ve ever seen. . . . Aaaaand subscribed
You're a brave man to do a dust collection video. I know armchair warriors love giving their expert opinion on this matter. Or maybe this was a genius move on your part to boost video engagement for the algorithm! Nevertheless, I found this video informative and entertaining. I'm much like you where I disregard the manufacturer's size guidelines and "know better" when buying things 😂
Very helpful, clear, and informative video. I wish I had seen this before I put one of the filters on my ceiling. Mine's over 9'6" high, so not as much a head clunker as yours. Thanks!
I remember you mentioning you would be releasing this video soon when we talked at Workbench Con and I've been anxiously waiting. Great video with so much good info. I bought a monstrous 5hp Oneida for pretty cheap from the classifieds so as long as I can fit it in my new garage shop, it should work great. My garage is 21.5' square but I think it might be more convenient day to day to have the pipe in place instead of the hose but I may try out both to see. Again, great video and great info! Thanks!
Thanks Nils! Looking forward to seeing that beast!
I have an Oneida system as well. I also went with a system rated for a shop larger than mine, to make up for all the errors in twists and turns, dictated by my shop limitations. It's been almost 15 years, and never regretted it. They said, a two or three HP should work fine. I said, ok, I'll take the 5 HP.
My old wood shop class in my small school had a pretty smart custom vac system, it had normal metal blast gates with microswitches to turn on the vac when any of them lost contact (beginning of opening the gate), some where manual but on most machines separately there was a pneumatic cylinder and a pneumatic solenoid valve wired to the start box for the machine (dunno about America, but in Europe most of those are standardized so you can switch out a single contact switch house to double contact switch, but most are already double switch since the price is often the same, so you have a place to wire your extra stuff already), connected then to the central air compressor, so when you pressed the start button it would trigger the solenoid that redirected air to the pull side of the cylinder and the pressure would open the blast gate.
I used 4in abs pipe for my small 6 drop shop. But I use Much wider 3d printed fittings all are based on a 18in radius with a internal step for smooth flow. all my gates are simple slides but 3d printed everything is ABS and it kept a P1S and X1C busy for a week. my dust cyclone and fan is also 3d printed and side on a 2hp 3phase motor on a VFD. i get around 980cfm active flow from my longest run
FWIW I am a pro designer and builder of custom furniture. My DC is a Jet 1100CFM unit with pleated filter. To it I have attached 30' of 4" flex hose, about 20 years ago, and it works great on my SS ICS TS, my Jet 12 jointer/planer, my 15" Delta stationary planer, and my LT 16 HD Laguna BS. I am the only person working in my shop, so I only use one tool at a time. FWIW the 12" Jointer/Planer also has 10' of flex hose attached to it. My shop is approximately 20x30 feet. I have every piece of stationary equipment on mobile bases and I cut up a LOT of sheet goods. A fixed duct system simply would not work for me. And my duct system cost me about $75.00 18 years ago. The quality flex duct will last a very long time, 18 years and counting, and is a LESS EXPENSIVE route to try out before spending a load of money on a fixed system that does not allow you to move your equipment. Flex hose requires no planning and is installed in about 15 minutes. I use a female flared fitting on the hose to slip fit onto all of my equipment.
About 20 or so years ago Shopvac came out with the QSP lineup of machines that were nicely quiet. At the time, the displays at HD had switches so one could try out the vacs for decibels. I notice that they no longer have those displays. Either the vacs are all quiet, or they would rather you don't know. There are great dust bags in units of 12 at Amazon, for my QSP. And I have a HEPA filter in it. I can reuse the bags by sealing them through a fitting designed to seal dog food bags. One can 3d print vac connectors for the small machines, including to add fitting to tools so that they link up to the popular festool hoses. I prefer to do really dusty stuff by rolling my saws out of doors.
Scott - you're the Adam Ragusea of KZhead woodworking. That was a firehose of information I quite enjoyed being drenched with.
You should be able to take a heat gun to the PVC pipe and bend them to turn a wider radius 90 degree corner. Though it will likely take some work to figure out how to do it without collapsing the pipe.
Just found your page a few weeks ago and I have found so much great information! Thank you sir!
Thanks so much Gary! I really appreciate it!
Very informative. I'm planning my shop dust setup at the moment. Glad I saw this. I thought if I put a big 2HP dust collector in the corner I'd be set for all my tools which are setup for 2"-2.5" vacs. But I can see now thats not true. Thanks
That is the collector I wanted the small shop I run, in the basement of a Gothic style chapel. Unfortunately, the only place for the unit is at the bottom of a spiral stone staircase. So we got a Mini Gorilla. You absolutely have the better machine.
The last 5 seconds make it worth the watch.
If you need to figure out how to get dust collection at shop vac levels from your dust collector start by splitting the flow into 2 equal portions, then restrict 1 hose down to the shop vac size, then reduce the 2nd until the flow rate of the 1st hose matches or exceeds the flow rate of an actual shop vac. You’re welcome. doing things w/o having excessive tools requires thinking through what causes the problem rather than just acknowledging that a problem exists
I bought an Oneida 3HP cyclone years ago, it’s one of the best investments I’ve made. (I also shelled out for a bunch of snap-pipe that I ended up being too lazy to put up, so drag around a long flex hose for several machines 😂)
One of the best explained videos on dust collection 🙏 Those plastic blast gates do my head in!!
I have my shop vac outside under a weather resistant mini-shed and I don't use any filtration. I do use a cyclone inside my shop and never had an issue with this setup.
7:05 You can cut filter bags at the bottom, empty them when full and seal the again with a stick, folding and some clamps. It works very well.
Imagine spending ridiculous amounts to buy a $700 vacuum, then cut corners by reusing non-reusable bags BY CUTTING THEM. Wanna be a cheapskate and damage your equipment? Go for it! Maybe use your cheap shop vac to vacuum the dust out of the collector bags via the opening existing in the bag.
@@codename495 They are perfectly reusable. Reusability comes from many, many factors. If the vaccum is not working seriously harder, they are reusable. Tip for you: You SEAL them, after cutting them...
Great video Scott as a new woodworker if been looking into dust collection systems and the more I look into it I think I’m gonna go with the mini gorilla or the supercell also seems like a great system. Thanks for sharing.
For those looking for a more reasonable option than the Oneida Supercell, the Record Camvac is an AWESOME machine!! I was able to set up my shop with fittings, piping, flex hose, cyclone, and dust bin for about 1/2 the price of the Supercell unit alone! If you’re only running one machine at a time, this type of LVHP system is perfectly adequate and actually does better that the HVLP systems when necked down to smaller ports.
I was looking to see if anyone had mentioned this. I just got the 4 hp 90L one and it is awesome!
I feel like they’re the hidden gem of the North American dust collection world. Affordable and powerful!
My Dad balked at the price of 6” pvc fittings and fabricated most of his bends. He cut a whole bunch of wedge shaped rings of the pipe and glued them together into long sweep bends. He glued it with epoxy and fiberglass fabric. I believe he bought the wyes.
Somewhere I've seen a way to generate printable templates so you can make the cuts to form the wyes, and with PVC you can use the PVC cement to basically weld the pieces back together into a single unit. You can also bend PVC with heat, though a 6 inch pipe might take quite a lot to be able to bend (people often use hot sand to fill the middle, but that's quite a lot of volume in a 6 inch pipe...)
There is a industrial vacum cleaner brand called pullman , very rugged and quite expensive. One unit is even using 3 phase electricity. And there is a pressureised air driven model. I have a old pullman with 3 motors in it , (one phase ) The motors is cooled with a separated air stream, so you can suck up water without electrical shortcuts . In my experience the vac is quite effective collecting dust ,but the filter will clogg after a while and you have to take brake and clean it ,before continueing working .
I have a rigid shop vac with a bag and a HEPA filter cylindrical insert it works perfect. It’s loud as shit but works and then I also have a dust rate 650 CFM, with a dust separator in front of that for the big boy stuff.
That's a nice payday for the video. I did the harbor frieght and super dust deputy. If i could go back in time, i would save yp the extra money to get a 3 h.p. all in one unit. But, i only have one 220 outlet amd thats for the tabke saw. It works well enough. I went with the dust-right flex hose and quick connects.
I made my own cyclone extractor and was pleasantly surprised with how well it works. It is mounted on top of a large reinforced box for the chips and dust to drop into and the shop vac that powers it is more than enough. It is around 99.95% efficient. However the dust that does get through is ultra fine and so I do have to clean the filter occasionally. Big deal, it works great on the cheap.
I'm running a cheap-ish shop vac with a cheap bought cyclone on a metal barrel meant ot be thrown away at work. I'm honestly baffled how well it works. It even works mostly on the jointer. The planer spits out half of the wood chips, but nothing a little cleanup after the fact couldn't fix. Absolutely adequate for advanced hobbyist and light years away from any "proper" solution in terms of price
@@christiannorf1680
I just used flex hose in my shop, but given it only sees occasional use this is good enough. Though If i was in my shop on a daily basis it would be worth plumbing it all. I have contemplated getting a cyclone bin, for some projects it sure would have come in handy. I do however make use of the large box fan and furnace filter thing. Best money ever spent on this topic.
I thought about installing permanent ducting but all of my tools are mobile (I have a big shop … but also a lot of tools). The Mini Gorilla I ended up with came with Rockler's quick connect handle, so I ended up just adding the matching "plug" onto all of my tools, plus a couple 2.5->4in adapters on smaller tools like my oscillating sander that still still work better with the dust collector compared to my extractor (which … yeah, definitely need that for things like random orbit sanders and my small CNC router).
If my math and estimations are correct, the old system would filter all the air in that space 3 1/3 times per minute. If ducted the new, larger system outside, then I'd add some I-beams to that garage door. From the size and quality of the tools and dust collection products, I'm assuming a larger shop is designed into this array of cool stuff. Lots of good technical data and explained very well.
the other point that you missed with duct work, every tee will introduce a "dead space" that introduces more turbulence
I'd been making do with a shop-vac but when I bought a drum sander I had to "upgrade" to a dust collector. I needed the airflow in order to capture the dust it produced rather than the high static pressure the shop-vac provided. I'd say if the fitting is 2" or less then a shop-vac is probably the first choice but 3" or more and it's a dust collector (your mileage may vary so test). For you test of the flex hose, try adding some bends or turns in it, that would force the air to go around it and make more of an impact on the airflow than with sewer pipe (probably/maybe?).
I have a V3000 and I get 1000cfm at a single port. It's really handy for running two machines at once or using the floor sweep at the same time. I also think that the dust collection at the table saw is much much better with 1000cfm vs the old bag collectors which only do about 400cfm.
I work in a maker space, where we have a large Laguna D/C system for large tools, as well as a separate D/C system for our 5x10 CNC and while we have hickups in clearing chips from 16" planer, I went to investigate further... With a cheap particulate counter, I determined that a ROS kicks out more 2.5 particulate than our DC from the CNC router by a factor of 10. My next investigation was to fabricate a pitot tube and use a Dual port measurement system (testo 510)to assess our Laguna system....it wasn't sucking so well , so I drilled a hole in the duct work, did CFM count with pitot tube.,, then used air-hose to back "blast" the Laguna pleated filter. Lo and behold, after that, a 25% increase in cfm.....Oh ya, using a wind vane anemometer, on an earlier test caused it to spin so fast that the vanes seperated, trashing it. overall a good video-thanks, but there's still more weeds to dive into methinks
My experience with add-on cyclones is that they don’t do a whole lot for the small particulates, which is what clogs the filter. They do great to take out larger pieces, which helps a lot for the shop vac version by increasing the capacity, but on the high cfm unit it reduces airflow, which is not helpful. The high cfm unit reduces a lot of dust in the air around the whole shop, and any reduction of its flow is not welcome. Larger diameter electrical conduit has long sweeps. For the down pipes, they are more robust than ductwork and usually match the diameter of the outlets on the machines. You need the cfm, but you also need to maintain the velocity to move the chips. If the diameter is too large, the chips collect in horizontal portions, and won’t lift in vertical ones. So, there is a trade off that makes proper sizing important.
i like to do a lot of sanding, and i have a lathe so it makes plenty of wood chips, shavings etc. and especially dust. i definitely want some effective dust control, but for now ive just been using my shop vac, with the simple cone filter things. so far, its worked great and low cost for my home shop. eventually, i may upgrade, but i feel that its probably not necessary yet for me. still, i LOVE those machines, and that is some fantastic duct work you put up. if anything, a central vac system could be more useful if using a shop vac, simply by using pipe work along the walls and such to certain spots and have a dedicated hose and fittings. choosing it all to ones budget is the best advice one can give.
As always, GREAT video! Informative, spot on, entertaining and good use of time!
Great video Scott! I learned some stuff from this too, although you didn't mention the godfather of all dust collection research & testing- Bill Pentz!
I have COVID-induced lung damage. Usually, when other woodworkers hear about this, or see me wearing a mask, they say, "You're in the wrong field then!" 💔 Thanks for all this information, bc regardless of whether Im in the wrong or right field, I still need to build furniture for my house, & make repairs to my roof. You've made that easier for me, & I thank you for that.
I have a really dry throat since, need humid air, similar you've got to change how you do things. People take any difference as personal criticism of them i think. I also became disabled. Woodwork IS the wrong hobby for me i'd say now, but I still want to and do it.
Even though this is a bit beyond my needs, I found it very interesting and informative. My question is, Dude, how do you ever have time for woodworking?
Amazing video :) I do have a couple of the ceiling air filters and do think they work....the same way an air purifier or filter on an HVAC system works.
Great info. One day...one can dream. In the meantime, I have a Fein vac and the Quiet DeWalt vac. The latter goes on the cabinet of the table saw and the former goes on the blade guard. Works quite well. And both have the Dust Deputy to save the filters.
If you end up setting up and getting your Auto blast gate installed and placed on all your machinery that needs a blast gate setup installed and made once more and have it trigger the cyclone dust collector then I will suggest using Wago lever connector's to do all the wiring connections in testing and on final install they will make wire and cable management and all the trouble shooting required to finalise and fix any wiring and signaling issues that you will deal with. Become very is for good and they are way better then wire nut connectors in place of them all together you will be glad to use Wago lever connectors and use them in rest of your project's for life since any changes-additions/troubleshooting later on becomes very approachable and simple.
well at leat the bosch with afc you can use without an extra bag no problems, the afc funtion is basically just for knocking the filter in the back clear so it keeps its full power, with a bag you don´t need such a function, that said of course the filter might get clouged to the point where you need to change it for a new one but that is mostly the case if youre using a grinder to cut into moist cement or bricks that will clog that filter faster when dry you can also blast it with an airgun outsides (wearing ppe) in the end you can use bags but as you said it will be more expensive, if i remember correctly a filter for that bosch (i have the same) goes for something around 30-40€ (which schould be the same in $) but have to be changed way less compared to a bag. of course with a bag the inside of the extractor will be a lot cleaner ... if that has priority for someone
Regarding dust extractors: you can find the bags with built in zippers, so they can be emptied and reused
Hi Scot, your video is very instructive and accurate and helpful for anyone wishing to apply dust collection to a workshop. Just a few comments: The systems you describe are perfect for someone wishing to set up a home-hobby dust collection system. It would be expensive though for the average hobbyist and I expect that most would want to explore the cheaper option before progressing to a full-blown dust collector. However, the amount of money you are willing to spend would largely depend on how much time you spend in your workshop. Just a few comments on airflow and velocity: - 4,000 feet per minute is a safe target for 99% of systems. But wood waste (low relative density) can be conveyed comfortably at much slower speeds. 3,500 fpm is a good target and more than adequate for wood waste. You would find that 3,000 fpm would still work and I’m sure many hobbyist systems do. PVC ducting is fine but be careful of static electricity build-up! Apply earthing at regular intervals.
I'm very surprised by the hose vs ducting test. When I got my dust collector I used it temporarily with just flex hose, and it was a NIGHT AND DAY difference between the flex hose and my ducting. My final ducting was even a much longer run compared to my flex hose. But I did make sure to only use nice sweeping connectors, and had that straight run before my intake, and I'm sure other factors. Honestly flex hose is so expensive I'm pretty sure my steel ducting was actually cheaper per foot from the local HVAC supply in the end. Though admittedly I got lucky and got like half of my fittings used, which really helped.
Enter the era of the track saw! As a product designer cheap saw stop technology will come down in price substantially but it will take time for sure probably three years and still add some cost.
I have a jet with upper and lower bag. I removed the upper bag and put a piece of plywood on top with a 4' fitting coming out of the center connected to flex hose that goes to a dryer type vent that sends fine dust outdoors while the big chips fall in the lower bag. To me the upper filters are way to expensive and the way I did it there is no cleaning or replacing filters, just empty the lower bag when full, and a lot cheaper than those huge cyclones too.Of course if you don't have an exterior wall next to your dust collector this won't work.
5:30 you might not trust the numbers but once you try one you will never want to buy a 100$ shop vac ever again. I have one of those big 6.5hp Shop vacs and it'll suck everything from nails to chunks of scrap wood to dry leaves to small dogs. I haven't measured the specs and all but the performance is second to none compared to the 2.5 HP I had and hated for how underpowered it was. I still have it and use it for drywall inside the house but for the garage and shop the big one does a ridiculous job as a vacuum and mobile Extractor and collector. My first garage was basically a barn and that thing was gobbling up straw and hay alongside metal shavings, bolts and washers without skipping a beat. I absolutely love that hing.
I have a Dust Doctor connected to a central vac system that I use in my workshop, and after multiple years of use, there is only a trace anoint of dust in the vac system. You’ll likely never buy a filter again if you use a Dust Doctor. That more than makes up for the cost, which I think was less than $100.
Just spot on.. And now I'm wondering if to get Festool CTL 26 AC for potential bluetooth or slightly more powerful yet cheaper Makita vc4210L..
As previously stated, just an advertisement... "oh by the way, I got all this free for making a video..."
So some may disagree with me but I've been into woodworking since 1976 so I figure I've got seniority. My start was in vocational school where I took carpentry. The set up for dust collection in my schools very large shop was actually quite simple and very efficient. It consisted of a single 8 or 10 in. (don't remember exactly but it was big) metal duct running the length of the shop about 10 ft. off the floor. The main duct had sliding gate fixtures above or adjacent to each tool station with flexible duct of appropriate size running from the gate to the actual tool. The gates were opened and closed via a 4 ft. pole with a hook screwed into the end. Each workstation had one of these bright orange poles mounted on or close to the tool so it was pretty easy to remember to open and close the gate. The actual dust collector was an industrial unit with very high CFM so the end of the main duct had a spring loaded gate that would be pulled open the appropriate amount depending on the static pressure in the duct. That way the flex hose to an individual workstation wouldn't collapse if too few gates were open. We also had a collection of loose flex ducts of varying length used to allow for keeping the hanging ducts out of the way when working with large stock on any particular machine, or used as an open draw when working with hand tools on a bench. The only exceptions to this were tools like lathes and bandsaws close to walls where metal duct ran to the individual tools with the gate mounted close to the tool. I've used a very similar set up in my shops ever since. they're inexpensive easy to set up and work very well. They work great and only require the extra effort of opening and closing the gates. Vocational schools were different back then and served a different purpose than today. I've got some great memories and stories, like how my class set a new school record by selling one of the houses we built for a little over $48,000 in 1978.
Record Power CamVac's are a nice between option for smaller shops - high static pressure and high airflow in one.
Thanks for all the great content! What brand and model is that big green bandsaw you have in this video?
Great video Scott, it must’ve taken you a lot of hours to research and put together, thanks for all this info. I still find dust collection explanations with some science, some real life experiences, some BS and some voodoo. This helped sort some of it.
Quick connect + flex duct seems easily the best solution for one person hobby workshop. Permanent ducting starts to make sense when more than one person share the same space.
I would think that the waviness of the flexible hose would create eddies that keep the airflow separated from the wall similar to how the dimples on a golfball reduce its drag. It might slightly reduce the effective diameter of the hose, though. Technically, I think the eddies would be considered turbulence, but they're restrained so they act like air bearings between the airflow and the tube wall, allowing for a more even distribution of speeds within the flow. With flat tubing the speed will have to vary considerably across the cross section. Flex hose would also likely mean a shorter run, fewer bends, and would be less susceptible to leaks. In-place rigid tubing is probably better if you share the workspace since a flex hose is likely to get in the way unless you hang it from the ceiling, partly diminishing its usefulness.
That Onida you have is nice but the Harvey G 700 is way easier to deal with and super quiet and it's scaliable with respect to power... Nice vid!
I made a dust collector out of a plywood box for housing the fart fan, hoses and a Home Depot bucket for dust, and connectors. It works good and sucks up butt pucker leaks.
Speaking of dust. I have a sensor in my shop and it goes absolutely nuts when you move that shredded cardboard box packaging Oneida uses.
add put a air flow control at junction points leading to other machines. So you don't pull air from all the machines that increases suction by limiting the volume of tube it need to pull from.
Need to know what size motor on your dust collator? I gave up on dust collators and went with shop vac and very glad I did. If I had a cabinet shop I would have to have at least a 6 hp motor to get close to stop dust. I run shop vacs to all my tools and the connect the out flow to a stand alone filter. No dust off my table saw
You use ducting for permanent heavy machinery such as a cnc router. Also you do use 45 degree bends over 90 so that you can connect multiple heavy tools since a 45 into an existing pipe such as the ones in your shop. It helps smooth out the airflow instead of having 2 90's (one from the tool and a t fitting for the existing pipe. Also you probably went a bit over kill with your pipe diameter for a shop your size.
@MathiasWandel has showed that the box fans and better works really great for removing dust in the air
I feel like I just watched a 30 minute dust collector ad with a lie for a title.
Dude, YES for the Blake Pizey video - that guy is legit and has a ton of info for fixed large diameter systems!
I have the Bosch DE. I've always said that the AFC sounds like ominous door knocking in a horror movie
i have those "expensiv" tubes and i do not know anything else here all shops have dose.. and also automatic pneumatic blast gates to open a pip when i start a Maschine.. 🤓
A potential for something between the super cheap, super noisy, but low airflow shop vacuums and the super expensive, super quiet, and high airflow dust extractor smight be the new DeWalt StealthSonic Shop Vacuums. The 9 gallon StealthSonic is listed as having a airflow rate of a 90 CFM while the larger 12 gallon version has an airflow of 105 CFM and the 16 gallon is rated at 135 CFM. In addition to airflow, the amount of suction is also important. I see values from 72 to 80 inches of water lift for the DeWalt. All three have a sound level of about 65 dB (in comparison to other shop vacs which howl at around 80-85 dB). All three have a diameter of 18.5". The heights are 22.6" (9 gal), 26.4"(12 gal), and 29.7" (16 gal). The weights are 20.5, 29 lbs, and 39.5 lbs . As of today at the "Blue" big box store the prices are $129 (9 gal), $139 (12 gal), and $199 (16 gal). A HEPA filter to give the same filtering capability as a dedicated dust extractor adds $50 to all three for total prices of $179, $189, and $249/ The StealthSonics compares reasonably well to the CFM and noise specifications of the king of dust extractors, the Festool 574837 CT Bluetooth, which is rated at an airflow rate of 130 CFM and a suction of 92" of water. The noise level is 62 dB (but at low power rather than full power), thus the DeWalts are as quiet. With regard to capacity, the Festool only has a 3.3 gallon filter bag capacity, so the DeWalts won't need to be emptied nearly as often. The dimensions of the Festool are 19.3"Dx 13.4"Wx26"H and it weighs 25 lbs. This pretty much the same as the 12 gallon DeWalt. So the 12 gallon would roughly fit into the same places that the Festool would. And if there is an extra 3.7" of height available, the 16 gallon version could also be tucked away in the basic space as the Festool. The Festool, however, costs $680 from Rockler. So compared to the 16 gal DeWalt with the same airflow rate, the Festool has a greater suction of 96" of water compared to 80" for the DeWalt, and it's 5 inches narrower and 3.7" shorter. But to get that narrower width and the extra suction of the Festool you have the privilege of paying 2.8 times as much as the DeWalt. With these numbers, dedicated dust extractors would have to be shown to have some essential something that the DeWalts don't in order to be worth the price.
You would record the amount of current the new system draws for one set of ducting vs the other.
12:47 You managed to get it to fit and be completely installed, congrats. I would like, if I may, to ask you one question: How much disassembly/uninstallation will you need to do when the motor needs servicing or maintenance? (The space requirements were not just for 'will it fit within the space,' but for 'can it me properly maintained in that space without excessive downtime?")
I have a 60usd vac with the extra current sensing output and it is MUCH stronger than the festool one but at a MUCH higher sound level. And even festool and other major brands lie about their performance. And you can't compare specs from one company to another since they use different ways to measure, like measuring the air flow by removing the hose completely and all filters. You must find an independent test for everything.... And for cheap small vacs you should still always use a bag since it gives you longer filter life and better performance for longer and saving your lungs.
Great video, Scott. Encyclopedic and cinematic. I use a dust extractor and cyclone separator and it's no surprise that my 10" jointer gets clogged up all the time. After seeing this I feel more confident to upgrade my system. Thanks! (p.s.: does anyone know what's wrong with Scott? How can he resist making suck-puns? Is he growing up? I sure hope not)
Static charge on dust collection is no joke. Dewalt planer to separator and shop vac got me good ⚡️