Does Fence Post Foam Really Work?
Fence post foam... We're all aware of it and there's a TON of videos about how easy it is to use. But does fence post foam work? Today I'm running an experiment on fence post foam to see what the set up is like and is it even strong. If you want to see my expert opinion on fence post foam, stay tuned to the end!
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Time Stamp:
0:00 Intro
0:45 What Types Of Posts Were Used
1:07 What Results We're Looking For
1:18 What Product We're Using
1:27 What is the Mixing Process
1:52 What Video Shots We're Using
2:15 Testing Phase 1 - Mixing & Pouring
3:24 Testing Phase 2 - Expansion
6:03 Testing Phase 3 - Curing
6:25 Testing Phase 4 - Final Results
8:30 Materials & Labor Supplied By Ozark Fence
8:40 Conclusion
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Okay, I've built a ton of fences with this and a ton with concrete and here's my 2 cents. 1. The foam does work but it is very picky. Has to be properly mixed, has to be kept at a narrow temperature range, etc. 2. You have to go deep with the holes. 3 feet minimum. 3. You have to do a great job staking out the post. The expanding foam will push the post side to side if not perfectly staked. 4. You can easily carry 10 bags of foam in one trip. You cannot carry the equivalent in concrete. 5. The posts do feel softer than concrete, but I live in a high wind area and despite my home fence feeling a little soft, it's still dead level after a year of heavy winds. There's something to be said about a little give and take with wind. Now all that being said, I still use concrete and here's why: 1. I use fast set concrete so I don't have to stake out my posts. That saves time. 2. I only have to drill 2 feet deep. That saves time and muscle. 3. I only need 8' posts instead of 10' posts. This saves money and the 8' posts are lighter/easier to move around. 4. I don't have to explain the foam idea to clients. Everyone understands concrete. 5. When I compare the extra weight of the posts, cost of the posts, depth of the post holes, and stabilization of the foam posts, I see zero benefit in doing 100% foam all day every day. So, yes it works. No, it isn't a game changing miracle. It's just another tool to be used correctly on the days you need it.
After ALL that nonsense. "I still use concrete. And here's why" 😄😄😄😄
Tell that to the electric companies that plant electric poles with it
Jason A Methods for efficiently setting 8’ fence posts are a little different from methods used on electric poles, bud.
Charles Doodson 🤣🤣💯
Jason A haha power company’s just backfill with dirt.
At first I thought this was a paid advertisement for foam. I'm happy to see this was an honest review. Thank you!
so wait, if you see a video that likes a product, you assume paid advertisement.. but if they don't like it, you assume honest review and not that another company paid them to say that? You either trust the source or you don't. This channel has given me no reason not to trust the information, positive or negative.
I honestly thought it was paid advertisement at first as well. Probably by the way he was describing what was happening while the foam was rising. It seemed like he was ‘talking up’ the product. I was curious to see the result and quite surprised that it ended the way it did. Thanks for the honest review. This is my first video of this channel and now I look forward to more. Cheers.
@@kyorising LoL... Love your logic. If you agree with "someone" they speak the truth... If you disagree it's "fake news".😁 (I mean.. I know that's what you are arguing against)
@@kyorising no you're trying to put words in my mouth and assume my logic. I was saying the video appeared to be an advertisement for the product at the beginning. After watching the entire video I can see he gave it a fair chance to succeed and he didnt hold back exposing the products shortcomings. I know you're looking online desperate for someone to bash to pump up your little ego. Take your little man syndrome somewhere else.
Me too 😂
I have used just foam insulation with pea gravel and it has held up for 4 yrs . I used it for a privacy fence screen around my pool equipment . This is an actual product manufactured specifically for fence post how cool 👍 enjoyed
my local hardware store has a display made for this stuff, its a 4X4 post set with foam in a 5 gallon bucket, its been there in the store for more then a year , the post has actually come away from the foam and is lopsided in the bucket lol , yeah, wont be bothering trying it myself lol
May have to allow for a stream of customers wiggling the post, however that sure doesn't sound good.
@@scottwillis5434 its hard to wiggle the post, its just in a 5 gallon bucket, moving the post moves the bucket as well, i guess you could wrap your legs around it and push lol. this looks more like the foam has shrunk away from the post, it didnt bond or stick to the wood at all either , usually with spray foam you cant remove it from wood if you wanted to, you have to cut it away and scrape it off
@@townside_woodcraft I imagine the setup for that display was done as quick as possible too. These foams can work great, but they have to mixed very well and at the right temperatures. Maybe one day they'll come up with a foam that works 100% of the time no matter the conditions.
$12.70 price for the foam at home depot after seeing this I'll stick with $4.98 bag of concrete
Lol damn right tho
@Lord Jasper hahaha
Forget concrete. I've had great luck with crushed stone.
@@brianallen140 what size stone?
@@jeremywarren7424 3/4 inch blue stone. Very common stuff. I'll also pour some sand in there too.
Watching foam expand is a lot more exciting than watching paint dry
One of the reasons I still spray foam after 20 years. Boss is still docking my pay when I stop to watch it expand as well.
Word
🤣
Deep
You're supposed to dig around the foam after it sets.. and then use concrete... duh. I literally did this after experimenting with foam... Now my lean to shed is completely sturdy... thanks ready mix.👍
I've used this product on 4x4 wood posts for a few years now (three or four fence projects), and every post is as secure as the posts I secured with cement. Also, when I pour the foam in, it starts rising also immediately and the hole is completely filled in less than 45 seconds. In your video, it took nearly one minute to see it start rising, and three minutes to get to the top. Also, none of the foam I poured contracted after the pour. In fact, I hit one of the posts with my small Kioti tractor a few months ago, and the post didn't budge. I love this stuff. I use concrete much more often (because of price), but when I need to set posts the same day, I use this product. Not sure why you had issues with it, but this worked as good as cement every time I've used it.
Same for me. Ran a smaller fence with this (only 5 post). Have no idea how this took hours to set up? Also did not have any contraction. Everything is still good after 3 years.
I used it for a mailbox post, 2 feet down, it is solid as can be.
That’s the one thing that’s annoying about these type videos. Someone who’s never done something can’t fathom they’ve done it wrong and gives bad advice to a lot of people. Not sure if it’s intentional or incompetence, but it’s amazing how often I see this on KZhead
@@Pmc987 you watched him do it, what did he do wrong? not mix enough?
same here 20 fence on foam no problem dig 4 feet ;)
I’ve been thinking about getting this. Glad u made a video about it and save me money!!!
I used this recently to install roughly 300 feet of privacy fence at my house in southern Indiana. IT WORKED AWESOME!!! My father in-law was so impressed that when we install his privacy fence this summer he’s only using foam on his too.
I've never used this foam, but have used a couple of sica 2 part epoxies holding 500lbs pieces of glass railing, both interior and exterior, and it was stronger than the special hydraulic cement we used to use. Really good stuff!
Thank you for taking the time to make this video! Not the results I expected.
I was sooooooo looking forward to seeing this work. thanks for the warning
Thank you for the before and after. All the other videos I have seen reviewing these products simply show how they are using the product and fail to display the durability of the product. This video has sold me on using concrete for my upcoming fence project.
Hell yea, give it some love
You just saved me a lot of time a frustration. Thank you.
Hey Joe! I work with polyurethane foams (that the Sika PostFix is), and there's a couple of things that stood out to me. TL;DR: Were the components at the correct temperature when mixing? The shrinkage of the pours was most likely caused by insufficient hardener/isocyanate activation throughout the foam (poor mixing and/or bad mixing temperature). Ultimately the shrinking is caused by not enough hardener/isocyanate in the foam, to 'lock' it in place. First of all, a couple of pointers for 2K/2-component polyurethane foams. The components of the foam are a plasticiser (a polyol) and a hardener (an isocyanate). The polyol is comprised of the main plasticiser (the polyol), a foaming agent (could be plain water, or some proprietary 'blowing agent'), an accelerator (a catalyst, some kind of *potent* acid), and a stalibizer (more plasticiser or silicones). The components react with each other, forming a few intermediate molecules and some gases, before forming the long polyurea linkages, which 'lock-in' the shape and volume of the foam. The formed gases are trapped inside bubbles, which then solidify, trapping the gases inside the bubbles (usually for insulation purposes). The solidification is wholly brought by the hardener/isocyanate. What I see from the video, and what Sika's material safety data sheets describe, it's a pretty 'green' system (no ozone layer depleting CFCs, nor that much super-greenhouse HFCs). So most likely a water blowing agent, or some LBA† 11-herbs and spices, and a 'middle of the road' isocyanate. I couldn't find the exact mixture ratio, but it should be pretty high (high is somewhere around 100:150 to 100:170 | pol:iso, by weight), as *a lot* of structural integrity is needed from the foam. If you go much higher than that, you start to get PIR, not PUR. You have so much isocyanate, that it starts to react with itself and begins forming Polyisocyanurate. † Literally: "Liquid Blowing Agent", tells about as much as "natural flavoring" in foodstuffs. The material data sheet indicates the following timings as a guideline: -15s | mixing 0s | pour 10s | rise time - after this, moving the post would tear the forming bubbles, and cause a poor interface layer to form 180-300s | fibre-time†† - a very, *very* large uncertainty here, most likely due to differing temperatures of the surfaces and the components (hey, it's outside, not a factory floor) no given time for tack-free time †† Fibre-time is the moment, when the intermediate molecules are exhausted, and the chemical reaction begins to form the polyurea chains. Usually tested by poking the foam around the projected fibre-time (a stick works, but a coarse threaded screw works really well), and observing when strands/fibres start to stick to the poking device. As to what could have caused the poor performance of the foam: The rise time was *very* delayed (around 45-50s), hinting that the components weren't up to a high enough temperature, oooor unlikely due to very, *very* poor mixing. The fibre-time was at around 270s, which is at the later side of the given fibre-time, further suggesting too low mixing temperature or poor mixing. Even further, the fibre time comes very late for the apparent temperature, as the 300s fibre-time is suggested to be at 0°C, and the video didn't look like it was near freezing. :D From those observations, it would seem that the components weren't at a high enough temperature for them to work properly, leading to shrinkage. The material data sheet gives 25°C (77°F) for 2 hours before use. And the MDS leaves out a very important temperature for a foam pour, the temperature of the 'mould'. I do get it, why they wouldn't mention this, as you're pouring it into ground. It happens to be at the temperature it just happens to be at. In any moulding process though, the mould temperature is extremely important. A rule of thumb that I was taught was: (recommended mixing temp in °C / 20) X target density in g/l (The MDS mentions ~1000g of product, and a final volume of 20l = 20g/l) So in this case the optimal surface temperature would be: (25°C/20)x20 = 25°C
Seems like concrete doesn’t need all the math and whatnot
That is some detailed information! Great to know, would be nice to see a follow up video at a higher outdoor temperature
Yeah if you need 14 paragraphs to explain how to use it just use concrete. The entire idea of the foam us it's fast and easy. If I'm breaking out a trig calculator it's a hard no for me.
It clearly says on the bag, when mixing you are required to force the bag against a 90 degree angle to mix the components… not with your hands squeezing the bags
Great reply. Thanks for taking the time to put this together.
great video. I have been seeing a lot of hype about this foam lately. this really clears it up for me.
I wish commenters who are kindly sharing their experiences with setting posts with foam would include more details beyond just that "it worked for me" or "it failed for me." (Especially commenters who seem extremely passionate about their results being universalizable.) For instance: General location/region/climate? Was the dirt wet or dry? Was the post wet wood, or dry wood, or metal? What was the air/soil tempurature? This seems like a great opportunity to compare notes, and see if there are variables that correlate with sucess or failure...
See Bryan Hall's pros and cons. I used the Sika product in Toronto, dirt is moist, posts are pressure treated. Dug out the holes, sank the posts ~3ft and poured in the mix. Make sure the posts are firmly held in place otherwise it'll possibly move out of alignment while the mix is curing. It's not a bad product, but you have to plan it and be mindful. Set time is roughly 5 minutes, so there's very little "wiggle" time to realign things if need be. I would suggest using sonotubes for consistency - I did not use them for my project and think in hindsight it might have helped. The one variable I found was how much it filled up the holes. Overall, it filled 3 ft cleanly but it could be up or down a couple of inches. If you're looking for a finished look, it's difficult to top up the stuff - and you have to use up an entire bag as there's no way to take out a measured amount. I also don't know if it loses any integrity if you cut/shape it. It's easy to cut with a reciprocating saw and an average blade. The one load bearing post (for a gate) I will use concrete. You can save time by using foam but you probably have compromise in terms of at or above ground look. If you get the stuff on your hands, it's much like the insulation foam - gets quite sticky on one's hands. Posts overall are still firm - no wiggling like in this video. Perhaps it's to do with the soil?
Who has time to factor in all the variables you mention when concrete will work in about any soil conditions. Concrete is also less expensive. I know it has the drawbacks of weight, dust, etc.
there you go being reasonable and logical . aaannndd you're right variables matter ,sometimes a lot . you're basically describing " the scientific method ". temp and humidity affect a lot of things that " cure ".
It worked for me. It failed for my neighbor
It worked for me. I live in northern Minnesota. We went down about 2 1/2 feet and used regular menards ground contact 4x4s. Fine black gumbo. When the ground here dries it’s harder then granite i swear. We did use a sawzall to cut them flush with the ground. No problems. ( even did it with the posts for the small gate. ). We get snow easily waist deep and blizzards up here and still going. I would recommend concrete for bigger gates Our 16 foot double gate we just ran 1 in rods into the ground to make sure they are extra secure with the foam.
Dude you’re a natural on screen. Great video! I’m considering my options on my next fence and this was helpful. Your channel will be highly successful
Nice to see a good honest review, you have my subscription sir.
I used the SecureSet foam for posts that I sunk two years ago. I built a "perimiter deck" foundation and built a shed on it. It's held up well through freeze and thaw, and I'm very impressed with it. I was told Secure Set is far superior to the Sika product. The fact that you mix it with a drill motor makes it seem more thorough to me.
Glad I found this video. I commented on a recent vid about building my next fence for my home and yeah, traditional concrete it is. There is something to be said sometimes that doing things faster is not always better. There is a reason why structures that were built out of mud, clay and stone are still standing today. I'll stick with concrete.
Even with concrete your post is only as strong as the ground surrounding the post. If you have really soft ground then the concrete can become loose too. All the concrete does is hold the pole, if the ground shifts then the entire pole/concrete would move freely as well. It's not like the concrete bonds with the ground.
There's nothing wrong with this product, I used it and it work
This is why they tell you to wait 2 hours instead of 2 days. After 2 hours its still solid, after 2 days you see what really happens.
Yup, This is designed for cowboy contractors in mind - mix - pour - wait 2 hours - finish off your fence build within a day... get your money and go away. 2 days later all wobbly and unstable - not your problem!.
Thanks for fully dissuading me against using foam on my gate post. It may work well somewhere inline on a fence .. maybe 30 -50% of the fence-line, but absolutely not at the gatepost. Great video.
Honest review deserves a sub
I used foam in wood 4x4 fence posts and it worked out great, waited about an hour and it was ready to put the fence pickets back. A lot less mess to clean up, that's a plus. I will use it again.
I used this product on 6 inch poles with cross pieces and it worked great. I doubt that I would have used it on steel.
We built a fence last year using expanding foam, and let me tell you, what you see in this video is EXACTLY what happened to every single post we set... I was very disappointed. We have a good 50/50 sand/soil split where we live which drains really well, and even in very dry conditions, we still ended up with wobbly posts. I will note, that a few posts that we set after a small rainstorm seemed to fair even worse then the dry set posts. It almost seemed as if the foam was repelled by the wet walls of the hole and wouldn't expand forcefully into it like with the dry holes. I could be wrong about this particular aspect, but in the end, we wound up with very wobbly posts and will likely need to slowly replace them with concrete reinforcement instead of foam as areas of the fence are now leaning outwards, which is pretty awful considering it is only a four foot picket fence...
I have done 3 fences with this stuff and your correct.. So water content is very important for curing (foam uses water in the reaction) and if the post hole it wet it will mess stuff up. The brand I use (Secure Set) recommends drying with a weed torch or something else. Its not perfect, but I use it because I get tired of hauling cement.
I always wondered if it would make good contact with the post. Glad you put this test out. Thanx brother.
Thank you for this well done and informative video... see you in the future!
Expert on industrial foam here. In my experience the curing Chemical has a pretty short shelflife of a few months before it starts to degrade. The older it gets the more shrinkage you get
Interesting, there’s no telling how long it took to make it to the shelf and then how long it had sat on that shelf!
How does this differ from home insulating foam. That doesn't shrink?
@@davids7209 even urethane spray foam will shrink if not mixed properly or if the substrate is too cold. Biggest problem we have spraying foam is heating the osb to 50 degrees in the dead of winter.
@@mtbasshead How does your comment relate to this video? It's not the dead of winter so the foam shouldn't have shrunk. Just sayin'
@@davids7209 Did you miss the part of the sentence about mixing properly or just gloss over it?
I used this product last year to install a new light pole in my front yard. It worked amazing. Mine is still solid as a rock even after our crazy Wisconsin weather. If I had multiple holes to fill I'd still use concrete though cuz this is an expensive product.
Reforce it wit cheese
@@brandonbell6171 - Oh yah. Pour some beer in der too! Dat'll take care of it, doncha know!
In 2009, maybe 2010, I put up a wooden fence with 4x4 posts, replacing existing rotted posts in concrete. I put the posts 8’ apart on center with the holes 2’ deep. The span was about 250’. I used the two part foam and allowed the foam to make an above ground mound. In the bottom of the holes I put river stone so that the foam would expand and seal around the bottom of the posts and completely around the sides, making it hopefully waterproof the wood. Here we are 14 years later, there is no post rot, the fence has withstood two hurricanes (I live close to Galveston Bay), and is very stable. I do not remember the brand of foam that I used, but it foamed up the color of Great Stuff, maybe a little lighter yellow. I suppose everyone has a different experience, but I thought I would relate my own experience. I’d use the foam again, and might have some left over in a shed somewhere.
I'm in Houston too and this stuff works so good. I think it's meant for wood and that's the problem he's having. Zero termites or wood insects. I like this stuff. Plus I can actually diy as a female with this stuff.
Thanks for the honesty
I've put up lots of fence in my life, I've used dirt, cement, and concrete. I used this exact same product just about 1 year ago to replace about 60 ft of my personal fence. I was out looking at it yesterday. While I got better results using treated wood 4x4's I would have to say it's worth it to go with quikrete or something similar. Unless it's a small fence that is in ground that won't shift or become saturated. Don't go with foam.
Why is this so calming to watch? He’s like the Bob Ross of fencing.
😂 thanks!
Appreciate that test man. I live on a 12 acre hobby farm. The pasture is a sequence of t-posts and intermittent 4-5” round wood posts. Fence is regular wire type box fence. All the farmers tell me not to use concrete. Would love to hear your insight on a fence to keep in large grazing animals. Thanks again!
I think the key is getting a specialized moving fence system for a farm they use the equivalent of big nails they stab in the ground and can yank back out using farm equipment
Thanks for the extra time on that demo. I have always considered the foam method as a temporary fix while you plan and the client budgets for a more permanent solution. Reach out if you'd like to incorporate a method of pouring concrete into your post holes that withstands stronger winds.
Yes this works. Five years and going strong. The wood 4x4’s are still solid. I also think this keeps moisture away from the wood preventing rot. It reminds me of expanding foam insulation and you know how sticky that is.
Good to know, I appreciate you sharing your experience!
I agree 3yrs in and it's working perfectly I like it.
@@stephaniecisneros1003 Now six years and doing great. I painted the bottom of my posts with white roofing coating, especially the bottom end grain. Still going strong.
I’ve used this on a few of my post and I have never had any of these problems! The foam worked perfectly!
Which brand did you use
lonedesertfox probably the Sika brand it’s the most common, I too have used it and it works perfectly, I will say however this is largely dependent on two things proper mixture (he was mixing too slowly in all three shots) and soil type the more dense the soil the better sandy soil that’s loose will suffer to properly compact however clay soil like we have here in Louisiana this stuff is very effective
@@aron6998 good tips
I used a similar product when I installed my new mailbox and post. I was done in two hours and did not have any shrinking problem. Holding up quite well, almost two years old. True once mixed you have to work very fast.
Excellent commentary and description!!
I just wanted to share my experience with post foam….after removing the old subsurface concrete pylon, I used a square cement block and added gravel round the outside of the block an little bit inside (of the square block hole ) after my 4x4 was centered in it. THEN I used the foam to fill the enitre hole in the ground and also the gaps in the concrete block (with the little bit of gravel). We had a severe wind storm that ruined two other fence posts, but that foam one was standing tall and strong. So it really depends on how you prep the hole. I went off label and kinda did my own thing but so far it has worked out great and I did not have to deal with dusty heavy concrete bags. It was a nightmare though getting that old concrete out.
Interesting, I appreciate you sharing your experience!
You should try the same experiment except for once it’s pretty much done expanding feeling and packing it with dirt like you normally would then come back in a few days, dig up the top and see what you find. I’ve never had issues with this farm not for this particular use but I have done a fence post with it and it still standing two years later nice and sturdy but this experiment is concerning, I wonder if the oxygen has something to do with it too much air for too long
Thanks, great video. Almost tried this stuff but thought better at the last minute, glad I did.
Great video! It saves me my time, money and effort to build my fence. Good job!
I'm a professional photographer building my own fence in Wisconsin. I have to commend you on the quality of your videos. Keep up the great work! Also using steel posts for my privacy fence, so cool to see you doing the same :)
Hi, I'm planning on putting in a wood stockade fence. Are steel posts that much better than wood posts? Thanks for the help.
I’m in Australia. I recently pulled an untreated hardwood post (about 12” diameter) out that had been in the ground for approximately 30 years. The wood was in near perfect, as new condition below ground, fairly good still above. They’d placed crushed rocks at the bottom and back filled with crushed rock and local dirt. We average about 1 to 1.2m of rain per annum here and get fairly hot and humid summers, sub zero in winter, termites, wood rot etc. I was pretty impressed. I’m sure the type of hardwood helped also plus the sap wood had been removed prior to burying. Not sure what it was though.
only thing I added to the ones I put in the ground was to paint the bottom couple of feet with spray paint.
Thanks! I had been fretting about a backyard project and how to set some upright posts and this really helped!
Thanks for making this video. I was wondering about these foam options... Not so much anymore!!
I bought mine from Home Depot--I'm not sure of the brand ,but when mixing I rolled it up to break the seal then rolled it across my leg about 12 times then cut the corner and poured into about a 2 foot hole--I was also using a 2-3/8 steel fence post--I used the steel posts to hold up a double 6 foot inswinging gate and it worked fine--They didn't contract at all like yours did--Also they expanded a LOT faster that yours did--I'm not sure if maybe your weather was too cold as I did see you wearing a jacket---
I noticed it expanded way too slow myself, when I’ve used this it expanded much faster, I also mixed it more vigorously than he did too
the original expanding foam was in gallon jugs and they use in Alaska for the pipe line way back in the 70's because was too cold to pour cement
We used the foam to put in posts for a driveway gate. That was 3 years ago and so far both posts are rock solid. We are satisfied.
Do you remember what brand?
@@dustintunis9347 I tried to find the receipt. My husband is obsessive about keeping such things but he said he had thrown it out two years ago. So very sorry we could not remember what brand but we did buy it at Lowe's and we chose the brand we used because the store had a couple of 5 gal buckets with the hardened foam and a fence post embedded in it. They had a little demo set up for everyone to see. We were impressed so that was the brand we bought. Hope you have the same good results as we did. It was crazy easy to use.
@@debrastone6764 - No problem, I'm just wondering if there is a substantial difference between brands and the one he chose for the video was sub-par.
@@dustintunis9347 i used the sicka like he used on my 1st post and had the same result ad he did, ended up pouring concrete into the gaps then i Used fast 2k from menards for the rest and that stuff worked excellent. One bag did 2 holes. Hope this helps
Thanks for this demonstration. Helped me eliminate foam as a possible solution to my problem.
I for a living install Satellite systems, I have tried the foam you where demonstrating in the video and found similar results. I have however found a foam I like quite well and has definitely held it's own even with a 90cm round sattilite dish. Q-set 250-750, is by far my foam of choice. Only requires a 3" hole for a 2-3/8" post with a 150lbs rating.
Han't heard of Post Foam before so glad I watched. My favorite part was when you went too far into the future, still smiling at that☺.
@@JoeEverest Appreciate your optimism that it was at worst Blade Runner rather than Mad Max or Waterworld!
Very interesting. I am curious of what caused the shrinkage. I have never heard of or seen that happen. I have built 3 fences with the product and they are solid as the day is long. One of them is my own fence I am very happy with it. Obviously this product doesn't work in all conditions...it would be nice to know which conditions are better than others.
During the expansion phase, the reaction causes the gas to heat up creating the extra volume and higher pressure, but then it contracted when it cooled down before it fully cured.....2 hours is a long time. The fact that he's wearing long sleeve shirt in broad daylight shows that it was a cool day so the heat in the foam dissipated even faster causing it to shrink even more than usual and leave large gaps....
Cold pools caus shrinkage....so I'm told 😆
I used it, too, 3 years ago, and all my 4"×4" are solid as a rock. Fence is 8' tall, with 1"×6" boards hung horizontally. Beautiful fence, the product worked great for me, too.
@@gconol yup while the foam was still curing I bet the temp was so low it caused the air holes to contract before it had time to harden.. probably same reason why it took so long to setup. I wonder if he would have had the same problems If he used a heat lamp.. or read the instructions. Maybe done the bucket test inside.
@@Pmc987 I would probably wait to do it in the summer time if that's an option.
We've used "Secure Set" and it works great, no movement and with wood there's not rot like concrete. I think each product may be different. We live in the Rockies where it's very dry and our soil is decomposed granite. The Secure set also comes in 1 gal bottle so you can measure out how much you want depending on the size of the whole. It ends up being cheaper than concrete.
Great information. Thanks!
I built my fence with cedar post on pole, and used Sika expanding foam. Had a great experience with the stuff, but you do need to be ready when you get to the point of pouring foam in the hole. My holes were deep, but only as big around as the post hole digger I used. The holes in the video look bigger. Used 2X4s and clamps to hold the posts in place to ensure they didn't move. No issues. I would say, that concrete is the way to go for any post you're going to hang a gate on. I used foam, but it couldn't support the weight. Had to clamp 2X4s to the fence rails to support the fence, unscrew the fence rails from the post, dig out the foam so I could pull the post, finishing cleaning the foam from the hole, reset the post and pour concrete. PITA!!! So, I'd say foam is OK for normal post, but not for any that will support a gate.
You are a diy dude that doesn't know anything so of course it worked great 😂
If you mix your cement up the right way in a wheelbarrow it will last a lifetime and while the cement is still wet in the post hole you have a chance to move the post left or right if you are off a little on your lineup. Thanks for the video.
Thank you for being honest and showing the down side.
Very welcome, always happy to help!
Man am I glad I watched this video. Thanks for this. Saved me tons of time and money.
All the stress of a reactive adhesive with all the usefulness of those little foam dinosaurs you drop in water to watch grow. Brilliant stuff there!
I used this exact product to install the post for my chicken and duck pens. I am in them daily and they are almost a year old. I have had no issues. I did use wooden post and was probably not as deep as yours. I had to trim the extra from the top.
That answered my question. Thanks for the video.
Thanks for the video, I had a customer ask me to use this. I was on the fence about it. I am going to send them this video.
One of the sturdiest fence's I've worked on had the posts set in crushed rock. I left the posts and replaced the panels. I still use concrete.
I set a couple of gate posts for my cousin last year with '3/4 crush' - set it them 2' deep and tamped it down every few inches of fill = solid as concrete and I see no reason why it'll be any different any time soon. If it does ever get pulled over by the weight of the 10' aluminum gate (highly unlikely) I'll dig out on the side that it's leaning from, fill & compact on the side it's leaning to, and it'll be good for another however long..
Interesting video. Hopefully one of the manufacturers or some installer that has used these products a lot can weigh in on what might have happened.
Used this last year and it worked great on a 4x4 post
I did use the foam for my fence and did not have any issues and it has been more than 7 years since its been done. I chose it for the quicker set time and was happy with the outcome especially for my first fence post installation
Maybe i used a different one or perhaps in not allowing a couple days to cure i did not allow it to off gas or shrink before back filling
I've used this foam on dozens of pressure treated wooden fence posts and it has been great every time. After several years, I have yet to have a post fail. I could imagine that on metal posts and slick plastic bucket surfaces it would have more trouble adhering. One other item I found to work well with the foam was to reinforce the foam by putting some rocks or broken cinder blocks in the sides of the holes and only then poor the well-shaken solution into the holes.
@@tailgatecarpenter26 Amen.. much respect to anyone doing this work for a living….
Right, the same here
I used this just the other day to install a mailbox post. 36" deep hole 8" round 4x4 post. 1 bag filled the hole slightly over the top and it seems to be very sturdy with the wood to foam connection. It might be the metal or smooth surface to foam where you had the trouble. I would consider using this method for a fence but not for anything more load bearing. Your reaction time seems to be pretty slow, it was about 100 degrees where I was working and I would not have wanted to exceed the 15sec work time, by the time I squeezed it in the hole it was already expanding. So I would guess that temperature has a lot to do with how fast and perhaps how well this product works.
For a mailbox, I'd try foam although that's an expensive ($25 per bag) solution for a throw-away post. Quikrete cement is sooo much cheaper ($7). And if the post rots off in 20 years, just dig another hole and put another post 2 or 3 feet from the first one.
I noticed when we used the foam deep holes and backfilling after that 2 hour cure window led to those posrs being good and solid, had some others we only dug to 24" and didn't throw dirt over the foam after its cure time those hole were wobbly with voids just like yours.
I used this stuff on a 4x4 post I put in my backyard (South Florida) - has not had any problem in 3 years. Solid as a rock, been through all our storms etc and all good.
We've used foam that's a 2 part on power poles in the ground.
Same, not this brand and it worked pretty well, these were temp poles btw
Power poles I’ve seen installed got the dirt pressed back in around them and that’s it. Granted they are at least eight feet into the ground.
You shouldn’t be using anything around a power pole.
pretty common with fiberglass poles, and I've seen it used for emergency replacements.
There ya go.
Now I'm not professing to be an expert or anything here but and the company video for Sika the brand a foam which you were using they ruptured the air pocket and then they rolled it back-and-forth on the top of their leg just like you're trying to straighten out a sheet of paper instead of just rolling it back-and-forth the way you did I don't know if this maybe mixes it better and thus helps it to set better or what but you might oughta check that video to see if the way you mixed it doesn't affect the way it sets..
Watch the right video... definitely over the knee to me
and the left lol
I've used these to repair a couple of 4x fence posts and they did a good job. One thing I noticed in your video and is indicated in the instructions is the post must absolutely NOT move while the foam is rising and curing. During your video, the 2 posts in the ground moved significantly. Now for the bucket, I guess is does show the product pushes on the outer wall like you described. You were hearing the bucket expand. I'm sure the foam works much better with wood posts than metal posts as it most likely has better grip with wood.
these were my thoughts exactly Philip - I am thinking that since I only have two posts to 'repair' and all the others are done (or supposed to be done) with concrete, this just may do the trick....
I used foam to build some planter beds and it worked perfectly. I wouldn't trust myself to build a taller fence with it but for a short planter it worked fantastic.
I have switched to the expanding foam, from the old style concrete. For me it works! I've replaced 3 fenceposts. I was able to have a helper hold one fencepost, which allowed me to split the bag between two posts.
I have already bought 4 bags of the foam. It’ll be going back to the store. Thank you for the video.
@Zeus 1455 Prove it! Like the old saying goes "The proof is in the pudding"
@Zeus 1455 can you post a video of the experament? Just because it didn't hold for him doesn't mean he did something to make it fail. He may have gotten a bad batch. What good would it do him to make it fail? He installs fences not sale concrete mix.
@Zeus 1455 why get so defensive? Show your proof or walk, simple. Talks cheap.
@Zeus 1455 I've been to the hardware stores and have yet to see the display for the foam. The reason I came at you is because you went after Joe. If you can contradict what he said in his video put one up of your own to show it to prove him wrong. If not go kick rocks and go twirl on your post held by foam in a 5 gallon bucket
Concrete is king
Thanks for this video. When my wife brought this product to my attention I asked "will it hold tightly to the post?" I just now retired as a Industrial painter and sandblaster and I suspected the post would be loose in the ground. I've tried out alot of newer product over the years and FEW are as user friendly, or what is claimed, the exaggerated claim usually. Some things tried took money out of our company pocket if you will, cost for reblast and repaint. Some were foam type products. This is the first video I've noticed that actually tested this product, we are taking your word for it too. Dustless blast systems were all over the place a few years ago, I had questions they could not answer, I sandblasted into my 60s so it was a professional painter/sandblaster asking specific questions. The videos made it look like any body could put a face shield on and blast in shorts, not even masking trim on a car body or around windows. Pressure alone will ruin a car body in seconds, even with water keeping friction from the metal.
Love the color of the foam. Great work.
I hadn’t heard of this product before two days ago. I immediately thought that it could never be as good as concrete. Imagine this test in what we call in Oregon as black mud. In the summer it will crack open 4-6 inches.
In Florida I don't concrete any of my posts unless it's a corner or gate, they just rot off where the post meets the concrete. And if a hurricane comes by, my fence will just lean over and I can stand it back up and pack it in
Zeus 1455 It does make me ponder why he had such poor results but the product obviously has a following. Question. Would it work better if the foam could be stopped from going up which in turn would pressurize the sides?
@@joshyingling I live in Florida too, one tip is to just bacfill mostly with dirt compact then pour concrete in top portion of hole and above grade slightly with a slight slope up the post. (so water /dirt doesn't contact the upper portion of the post) below grade wood does a lot better so that portion lasts fine. It is just where you have the dirt,water, oxygen trifecta that you get the problems in my experience.
@@scottrobinson8590 yeah for sure that makes since. Thanks for the tips
@@joshyingling I live on the NC coast, just posted a comment kinda similar.
Thumbs up for "I'll meet ya in the future", that made me laugh. Good vid on foam, I would have been pissed if I bought that product.
Worst part about it is that now you have a wobbly post... (who cares about the money!)... what do you do to fix the wobbly post? I ended up trying to shore up a 6x6 8' post (2feet underground) with concrete on top as I had about 6-8" to the top of the hole. It filled in around the foam a little, but I just should not have used the foam.
Thank you for the testing video
Excellent review. I like your scientific approach.
I see a lot of stories of wonder here in the comments, but my experience was quite the opposite. From day one posts were firm, but not rock solid like with concrete or compacted gravel/sand. After 1 year posts were wobbly and leaning. Posts were eventually pulled, replaced, and set with compacted gravel/sand. Inspecting the foam after being pulled, there were separated wallows around two sides of the post and foam was more "mushy" on those two sides. The foam just does not maintain stability/integrity. Neat idea, poor long term results.
Had the same experience with this stuff also. Ill never use it again or recommend it. This video proved our point
KZhead ALGORITMS,YOU HAVE SUMMONED ME HERE!!!!
Glad I watched this first! Thank you!
About what I expected thanks for the confirmation!
Damn! I really wanted this stuff to work!
It DOES work! Not sure what went wrong here - looks like it maybe it wasn’t being mixed properly? I have built a couple wooden fences in sandy soil. All the posts were erected individually before we moved on to horizontals. All the posts were rock solid with no movement. The fences remain standing today through very strong winds!
I have used this product a lot for many years and it works well. One thing this presenter never does is backfill the hole. This takes up the gap and my fences are still solid many years later. At least if you are going to review the product go through the full motions not just an un backfilled hole.
My husband used this the other day and it worked great he is a contractor and he built an awning using the foam it may have not been the same brand but it worked fine
@@gawingrimm Can you explain what you mean by "backfill the hole" and why you think he didn't do it properly and why you think him not doing it properly caused this issue? The only times I've seen this term used is for re-filling the hole you dug for the post. In this case, he "backfilled" the hole with foam. Maybe if you can explain what you think he's doing wrong, we can all understand why it didn't work. I've been looking at this product recently for a project and it has some very mixed reviews - it seems to either work great or work just like in this video. The product has so many bad reviews from unsatisfied customers that it feels like a crap shoot on whether it will work for us. No one seems to know why it works for some and not others. Perhaps you can shed some light on the problem?
Damn, that's a bright orange shirt 😁
Thanks for the video!
I built 80' of fence using 12' 4x4 posts in Alberta, Canada dug down to a minimum of 4' for each post to get below the frost level. The foam did a perfect job and held every post super solid, I used 2 bags for every post and 3 for each corner. The reason I used them was beaucse I didn't want to mix concrete and haul so bags into my backyard since I don't have an alley for access. I would absolutely recommend this product and I would use it again for sure.
Great video! I used to work installing fences and always had great results using concrete. I have used two part marine foam for marine projects and maybe the slower cure and less heat would stop the shrinkage. that did not happen with the marine foam (quite more expensive by the way.). Now working in the construction industry for over 30 years Sikka products are usually top in the industry, but they need to go back to the drawing board with this one. Thank you for showing this video. It could save many people from making a costly mistake. Cheers!
Have you contacted Sika with this info? They are very particular and professional regarding their products.
@@JoeEverest Thanks Joe. This would probably be a great conversation and help tremendously for both. Thanks for the video and follow up.
I have a power pole in my front yard beside a a ditch. Nutria dug a tunnle from the ditch to the pole causing it to lean over about 8 to 10 degrees. I called the power company, they brought three trucks to straighten the pole. They pumped expanding foam in the existing hole. They did not redrill a new hole. The soil is mostly clay with some sand mixed through at different depths. Four years later and after hurricane florence pole is still solid in the ground.
Wish you showed how you held those posts level and steady
Doesn't matter the foam didn't didn't do it's job.
Why does that matter in this video? The foam literally sucks.
@@scottydntno Um, maybe he meant in general?
Would not use for a fence, but my mailbox is still rock solid after two years with foam.
Super informative!!
Glad I watched this. I have to repair several chain link posts.