Meters from COLLISION in Paris! Brussels and HOP Airlines
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Have you ever heard the saying that “if something can go wrong, it eventually will”. Well, that was certainly the case in this story where extraordinary circumstances brought two passenger aircraft from Brussels Airlines And iHOP to within meters of each other. Stay tuned!
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Below you will find the links to videos and sources used in this episode.
SOURCES
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Final Report:
bea.aero/fileadmin/user_uploa...
[Document] BEA - SAFETY INVESTIGATION REPORT Serious incident to the EMBRAER - ERJ170 registered F-HBXK and to the AIRBUS - A320 registered OO-SNE on 21 October 2020 at Paris-Charles de Gaulle (Val-d'Oise)
bea.aero/fileadmin/user_uploa...
[Footage] - NASA - The Polar Jet Stream
svs.gsfc.nasa.gov/3864
[Document] JEPPESEN - LFPG (Charles-De-Gaulle)
www.virtualairlines.eu/charts...
[Footage] - Shoposki - BRUSSELS AIRLINES (A320-200)
• BRUSSELS AIRLINES (A32...
[Footage] - Razgriz Flight & Spong - Paris CDG Airport Plane Spong
• 125 planes in 90min ! ...
[Footage] - AviaonUpclose - WINDSHEAR GO AROUND
• 6 ABORTED LANDINGS, WI...
[Footage] - VOARVIDEOS - HOP! Embraer 170 takeoff at Basel Euro airport
• [HD] HOP! Embraer 170 ...
[Footage] - Groupe ADP - Paris-Charles de Gaulle Airport
www.parisaeroport.fr/en/group...
[Footage] - Air France - Pilote
• Pilote
[Footage] - DSNA - Air Traffic control at Paris-CDG airport
• DSNA - Air Traffic con...
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mentour just tell me 'GOD BLESS YOU I WILL BE OKAY'
Please use the older microphone settings in the last videos your voice sounds too compressed
Please, take a better look at betterhelp and how they actually work and reconsider the sponsorship
Betterhelp is a shady app. Shame on you
please reconsider betterhelp
This channel has transformed my understanding of pilot’s level of skill and the logistical/planning magic needed to keep our air travel convenient. it’s made me a much more grateful/patient passenger in airports
That's great to hear!
@@MentourPilot It's true :)
100%
Same for me!
I think MentourPilot is a latter-day Renaissance man. He describes the complex in a way that both the novice and the professional learn something. He uses a combination of knowledge, a natural teaching ability, and a love of aviation, all combined with a passion for what he does. He's without a peer in this regard!
That vertical separation chart alongside the top-down view really helped me understand what was going on, great detail
Great to hear!
The rest of the world could really learn a lot from aviation. The fact that two planes getting close but not colliding is a whole incident that generates procedure changes is how it should be. Imagine if we treated car collisions this way.
That's a great idea!
And nuclear power...
@@cfromnowherenuclear power is literally the safest form of electricity production in terms of having the lowest fatalities. The only reason nuclear meltdowns occur is when energy companies intentionally ignore safety recommendations for immediate profits. This is all too common across the power generation industry wherein some board makes recommendations, those recommendations get ignored, and years later a disaster occurs. For example, Fukushima could have been avoided if they followed a 2004 report, and the Texas power grid meltdown could have been avoided if they followed a 2011 federal report.
@@dex6316 Yes. These practices would be unacceptable in aviation.
If the world on the ground would follow the same rules as in the air it would be a much better world //
It is wonderful when the conflict resolution systems work as designed to keep us safe. I have never been more comfortable flying than after learning about all the systems in place that make this the safest mode of transport.
Yes but for TCAS to work, both planes have to have it installed. It will not work when some yahoo weekend small plane pilot violates airspace restrictions. This happens more often that you think.
@@nickv4073it's mandatory for weekend small pilots in Europe, I think
Listening to this experienced pilot saying that a landing in crosswind is complex and a lot of work for two pilots, certainly did not boost my confidence. I've never been afraid of flying before. MentourPilot made me realise how untrained these guys are and how bad procedures are. I've also seen that the same accidents are repeated again and again and procedures are only improved very slowly. Now I'm afraid of flying.
There are thousands of flights that happen per day in the US alone. The likelihood of a serious accident from a maintenance problem or pilot error is really low. What I’m actually worried about are all the vaccine damaged pilots having heart attacks, even dying mid-flight.
@@dominaevillae28 Considering the vaccine related stat's ONLY EVER showed some inflammation, you SHOULD be worried about all the morons going UNvaccinated and dying from REAL heart damage left behind by Covid. Get your head out of your ass and try listening to someone who actually EARNED A LICENSE TO PRACTICE MEDICINE. QUIT listening to sell-outs who barely know how to read at all, let alone the difference between "inflammation" (a temporary condition that will go away untreated) and ACTUAL damage/injury. You might actually live longer. ;o)
One can only imagine how far the ATC heart got into his throat at the moment the radar signatures merged. The the HUUUUUGE sigh of relief as they drifted apart.
What a fascinating investigation this must have been. Everybody did well but there was still an incident. And the outcome is perfect - noone did anything wrong so noone was blamed. Instead procedures were considered and changed to the benefit of all future pax and crew. 👍
Exactly!!
How was the outcome perfect when the core issue was not resolved because CDG operational manual was not updated (or at least @MentourPilot didn't mention it being updated) to suspend simultaneous landing/takeoff procedure when crosswind is greater than 25 knots, just like it is the case with simultaneous takeoffs? That would be a perfect outcome.
Take-off and landings in unison on near parallel runways during wind-shear/extreme weather run the risk of collision. It required 3 previous incidents and an STCA before anyone acted. Some might say the CAA weren't doing their job properly. Or it doesn't matter because it was only a near miss?
I feel the fact these parallel runway operations were allowed on Paris CDG should be considered something of an issue... If this had ended badly I do not think those who thought through, signed on, the double runway procedure would have been considered totally blameless.
@@kilozulu9990 at 25:55 it mentions reviewing these types of operations. That review will almost certainly lead to changes to airport procedures. It makes sense to do a full review though and not just jump to conclusions about which procedures should be changed and how. There were multiple factors involved in this close call incident, including the intercom connection with Le Bourget airport being inoperative. Everything needs to be looked at again carefully.
MentourPilot uploads a video, I take a 30-minute break from work. Simple.
You only watch the new episode once? Rookie numbers.
@@EclecticFruit hey, I need to earn money to survive 🤷♂️
As long as you aren't a pilot!
As somone living in Überlingen I find it amazing how much better the pilots are trained nowadays to react to TCAS notifications. It should be really pointed out how important it is that the pilots have to ignore the ATC instructions in this case, as the mid-air collision here has shown what can happen otherwise.
Oops, there wasn't a mid~air in this account, thank God.
Mentour did point this out.
There was a midair collision with two aircraft where one had followed the ATCs commands and the other followed TCAS. I think it was after that accident when they made it a rule to follow TCAS over ATC Edit: The incident I was talking about was between DHL flight 611 and Bashkirian Airlines Flight 2937, it also happened in Überlingen. Back then Flight 2937 had to decide themselves whether to follow ATC or TCAS instructions. A very sad accident especially because there were so many children aboard Flight 2937 Edit 2: Turns out it may already have been intended for TCAS to overrule ATC before this accident but it was somewhat ambiguous in the operating manuals
@@Reewen I remember this accident very well. That was the first time I heard of the TCAS System.
Just to add to this with the new A320NX their recommendations for a tcas RA is let the autopilot fly it. We still do it manually for fleet commonality as the NX is the only plane that has this capability as of now.
I love the lightness in Peter's voice and expressions in this story. Usually, he is more serious to pay respect to the deceased in the accidents. Fortunately, this story had a safe ending.
Well said 😊!
Wow, it’s very rare to see an incident like this where the pilots, controllers, and aircraft all function almost perfectly but there is still a dangerous situation. Just shows how good our systems are with how rare this is.
"It is possible to commit no mistakes and still lose. That is not a weakness. That is life."- Captain Jean-Luc Picard
A classic “near miss” that don’t turn into a major incident because of great flight crews and technology that works. And the passengers wouldn’t have even known…! Thanks Peter
Exactly 👌
I've wondered if I've ever been on a flight where the pilots, atc, etc knew something I didn't.
@@voyaristika5673 I’m sure it happens a lot more than us passengers know about!
@@jasongraham731It happened to me and my husband at O'Hare in Chicago 30+ years ago in a huge jet. We were yards from touching down (too low at the time for TCAS to work) when a small private jet decided to land (T-boning us) wherever he wanted. We could see their *eyes* in their windows! Our 2 small children would have been orphaned. I've never flown again and never will.
Since I'm not American, it feels to me the better term is "near hit" instead of "near miss"...
TCAS should be in cell phones to avoid exes and awkward chats with old acquaintances.
praise the earth was filled. His brightness was like the light. Two rays flashed from his hand, Where his strength was hidden. Before him went pestilence, And burning fever followed at his feet. He stood still and shook the earth. With a look, he made nations leap. The eternal mountains were smashed, And the ancient hills bowed down. The paths of long ago are his. I saw trouble in the tents of Cuʹshan. The tent cloths of the land of Midʹi·an trembled. Is it against the rivers, O Jehovah, Is it against the rivers that your anger is burning? Or is your fury against the sea? For you rode on your horses; Your chariots were victorious. Your bow is uncovered and ready. The rods are assigned with an oath.(Selah) You split the earth with rivers. Mountains writhed in pain at the sight of you. A downpour of waters swept through. The deep roared with its voice. It lifted its hands high. Sun and moon stood still in their lofty abode. Your arrows went out like the light. The lightning of your spear was brilliant. You marched through the earth with indignation. You trampled the nations in anger. You went out for the salvation of your people, to save your anointed one. You crushed the leader of the house of the wicked.
Your comment got me off guard 😂
I'd like to watch more of these close calls where the installed safety systems actually work and the pilots operating mainly as they should! There must be thousands of them.
Indeed! In most countries they have to report near misses just like they report accidents. This is used to improve safety because near misses shouldn't be able to happen. Even a near miss means something went really wrong.
Like the Japan mid air incident
@ThePapaja1996 when was that?
@@dejhon_s 31 january 2001
Absolutely fantastic! I love when you publish videos about incidents with no tragic outcome, no one else does this!
Green Dot Aviation does as well
Thank you so much for the spoiler!!
@@lostcamperlike the title didn't spoil you...
@@teggolT wrong..."two seconds from disaster" does not imply whether the disaster will or will not occur.
@@lostcamper In a purely grammatical way, you're right, it'd also make sense that way. I don't know English enough to argue about this, but like... don't read the comments if you don't wanna get spoiled ig
Thank heavens for TCAS and commendations to everyone involved for the safe recovery
Really happy to see some of my content in a Mentour Pilot video! I often thought about this exact scenario when filming a lot of the windshear escapes and go arounds over the years!
I’m certain that the layperson really enjoys your channel and learns much from it… and I must say, as a 787 captain, I find it equally enlightening. You break things down beautifully and highlight very thought-provoking incidents. Hopefully the system has been fixed, but this particular scenario I would never have anticipated before your video!
I love the 787.
It's always satisfying to see incident reports where everything works, nobody gets hurt, and changes are made to ensure it doesn't happen again.
As it should honestly. It still upsets me that the überlingen mid-air collision happened when apparently a year before that, something akin to it nearly happened in Japan (i couldn't remember the specifics). It could've been the worst aviation disaster defeating tenerife by the sheer amount of lost lives and if i remember correctly, the two planes were so close they were only some meters apart. If only the ICAO enforced laws about the ambiguity of TCAS vs ATC then, überlingen mightve never happened. But I'm glad how it is now and I hope different fields would do the same thing the world of aviation is doing instead of finger pointing.
What an amazing story, it must have been difficult to put it into a context that non pilots like me can understand it clearly. Thank you, please keep them coming they’re fascinating!
Glad you enjoyed it! 💕💕
This is a case of "have incidents, not accidents." Works for me!
After listening to many of these great reports regarding aircraft incidents and accidents, I note that wind sheer is still a huge factor. Nature, its powerful !
It really is
One tends to think of air as this thin, insubstantial gas but when you step out in a thunderstorm you are suddenly reminded how thick and strong our atmosphere is. No wonder aircraft can basically float on it if they create enough lift through speed and wings.
The mass of a cubic meter of air at sea level is about 1.3 kg or 2.9 lbs. It is not negligible.
I love it when systems work like they're supposed to and everyone executes their part flawlessly. The more I watch the accident videos on this channel, the more I enjoy my flying experience as a passenger and the more respect I have for flight crews.
Understanding is key to conquering fear. Most who are afraid of flying know very little about it. Your appreciation for how well trained these crews are will only increase the more you learn. I also encourage anyone, who considers themselves an interested passenger to download a flight sim, buy a cheap stick and have a go yourself. It's a humbling but also fun experience and some aircraft are very easy to fly (unlike big passenger jet liners).
Thanks Petter for the great video, but especially thanks to the team for these great animations! The radar display of the controller must have been truly frightening...
There are really intelligent people in this world who create this kind of solutions to keep us safe, and amazing professionals. Great work
Thank you for putting so much effort in making this video for us.❤
Thanks to YOU for being here. Enjoy! 🥰
not eat from it, no, you must not touch it; otherwise you will die.’”4 At this the serpent said to the woman: “You certainly will not die.+ 5 For God knows that in the very day you eat from it, your eyes will be opened and you will be like God, knowing good and bad.”+
It's a terrifying thing when all the operators are more or less doing what they should be to the best of their ability and you still get situations like this.
Yes, my thoughts exactly.
Nature and life are both unpredictable. We can't prevent all accidents, especially with such complex systems. Best we can do is try to anticipate them and mitigate their impact when they do happen.
@@SkylineFTW97 I agree with the report's finding that running parallel runways in relatively close proximity is inadvisable in adverse weather conditions. That's no fault of the controller or pilots though, but rather of the airport and their administration.
Indeed, exactly.
@@maiyannah Problem is we can't always predict everything ahead of time. We simply don't know what we don't know much of the time, and the only way to learn what we don't know is for either an accident or a close call to happen in that case.
I presume that the Controller got a toilet break immediately after this event was resolved. This must have been terrifying.
TCAS seems to be a very efficient and well designed system
when it first came out, there were no clear guidelines on whether ATC or TCAS had priority. Then there was a near miss in Japan (that still put people in hospital it was that close) and an actual mid-air collision over Germany where one plane obeyed the ATC and the other obeyed TCAS. That's the reason they now have TCAS take priority.
@@ImperialJustinian Wow! When you look at it in hindsight it seems like a no brainer to have the local TCAS take priority, forget about whatever is happening elsewhere... But then I suppose historically ATC had always been the most important communicator, and people were very hesitant to change that.
Seems like the airport design was a set up for failure, cant imagine how stressful that was. Great video
Yes indeed. Why were the airport planners allowed to get away with it?
What, exactly, is wrong with the design of the airport? It’s the ninth busiest airport in the world, and the third busiest in Europe. Since it’s opened, there have only been 3 crashes at the airport, none of which were caused by the airport design. Getting the exemption for twin runway operation, without all factors taken into account, was the issue, and not the design of the airport.
@@thetowndrunk988 From a passenger perspective, it's an awful airport. Don't forget that in the early morning hours of May 23, 2004, a portion of the newly inaugurated terminal 2E collapsed, killing four people. The collapse near Gate E50 happened without any warning killing two Chinese citizens, one from the Czech Republic and one from Lebanon. Three other people near Gate 50E suffered injuries but survived the shocking event.
@@Eurobazz Ok, I’ll grant you that, but that has nothing to do with the video and this incident. The design of actual airport has worked since it’s opening.
Yes, the runway layout of the airport isn't as good as the concept study promised. With safe operations, the capacity is lower than planned. There would have been enough space to build the airport in a compliant 4-runway layout.
Great video! I like these "close call" incidents, almost more than the more spectacular accidents. This channel has come a long way since I started following it years ago, with Petter on the couch with a red and green cushion. I miss the Dogs Monitoring though. (Actually, usually sleeping.) 😉
Shout out to the TCAS engineers, because when it comes to vertical speed it gave entirely the correct instructions to avoid collision
Petter, I love these types of videos where everyone did the correct thing and everything worked out, but there’s still something to learn from it. It’s a pleasant way to spend a morning. Can I recommend for our more disaster-loving viewers West Caribbean Airways 708? A combination of factors including lacking CRM, loss of situational awareness, and a quirk of the plane’s design combining for a devastating accident.
Also an important lesson on the devastating effects of lack of sleep while operating a plane
I have to agree. This was a fascinating incident which really demonstrated how despite the many safety procedures incidents can still arise.
when you mentioned the air traffic avoidance system and how that overwrites all other orders/instructions, I instantly remembered that horrible incident of two planes flying into each other due to both doing the same maneuver (one listening to ATC). happy that this proposal for a change was not written with blood and noticed rather soon too.
Fun fact: Murphy's law was originally conceived of when engineering better pilot restraint systems in order to make them safer for fighter pilots during the American post war era. "If it can go wrong, it will go wrong, so let's do everything we can engineering wise to make sure it doesn't". That was actually much the original credo, but like many things in Etymology, it was shortened for everyday use.
Actually most of these "shortenings" didn't happen and someone just invented a second half of the saying later
Aviation has as many acronyms as healthcare! I really enjoy watching. I have never had any interest in flying, but it’s really interesting to walk a mile in the pilot’s shoes. You have to be a meteorologist and a physicist in addition to being responsible for the lives of the passengers. As a nurse, your videos also make me think of the “Swiss cheese” model and how actions interact to cause errors. Next time I fly, I will be more aware of what the airplane is doing and why. I know that horrible feeling of realizing a mistake has been made. Thank you so much!
I am so happy that I saw Mentor Pilot's family, what a beautiful family. 😍
Saturday just got so much better
Incredibly bad job of ATC at CDG not keeping an extra close eye while the conditions were as they were
I love this kind of videos, where a sum of unideal factors still didn't cause a disaster, because something at some point worked exactly as designed.
Awesome video as always, and as an engineer, I especially appreciate the segments with altitude vs. time graph and lateral representation in a split screen. This was extremely simple to follow and visualize exactly what's going on. Thanks for all the information!
It's fun to hear about a story when life happens, but procedures kept everyone safe
Others have said it but better help is awful. They have some horrible therapists and sell your data. There’s a few videos on it if you look it up
After a pretty crappy day.....when I see a new Mentour Pilot video....the day is now much less crappy!
I do a great deal of flying and every time when we descend and my ears pop, I am reminded of being in a pressurized tube flying at couple hundred mph. It never ceases to amaze me
I cannot understand how amazing this kind of production has become. It is far superior to any documentary I've ever seen...anywhere. The complete knowledge base from all those contributing is far beyond any multi-million dollar production. Great channel and great info. I love this channel.
"And it was about to get much, much worse..."
Thanks Mentor Pilot for this lesson. I have been learning a lot with this videos.
Glad to hear that!
The animation accompanying your explanation is top-notch and helps visualise all the technicalities. So well-executed and easy to understand.
You could explain the most complex situations and events and I'd sit transfixed for hours with the surety of knowing I'm being better educated. A true Gift.
This was almost Überlingen all over again, thank goodness it wasn't.
Indeed.
This editing is so great, even better and clearer than the previous version, with important information written and enhanced. Good job team!
"Murphy's Law doesn't mean that something bad will happen, but it means that whatever can happen will happen" - Cooper
Yes, as demonstrated here
@@MentourPilotGreat Video Sir!
Another fascinating story well told. I'm not a pilot or really even an aviation enthusiast but I love your work because you do such a great job of not sensationalizing these incidents and explaining the many complex systems in use for the safety of air travel. I was never a nervous flyer but I enjoy learning about the many designs and safeguards inside planes and airports. Thank you for all you do!
I enjoy these incident videos more than the actual accident ones. Lots of insight into operations, and you'd never hear about these cases otherwise because they will never make the news.
You say it correctly. Extraordinary circumstances. Well done, Petter. Outstanding video.
Hello, just want you to know, this series is the best ever on YT, i literally watch your vids as bed stories to fall asleep, the way you tell the stories, the editing and everything is so amazing, i literally watched every vid in this playlist, keep it going, cant wait for the next video
Petter is a great story teller despite English not even being his first language. The fact pilots not only have aviation skills but are also multi lingual always impresses me. 🙌🏼
Thanks MP, a fascinating story indeed! Glad everything played out so well.
G'day from Australia. I was excited when I noticed you'd released another video, professionally done, informative and very interesting. I'm not a pilot but thanks to Air Crash Investigation, your channel, 74 Crew, Green Dot and others I can say I'm an aviation enthusiast.
I absolutely love the videos with happy endings, ESPECIALLY when the incidents allow for new lessons to be learned. Obviously no one wanted this to occur to begin with, but it’s far better to learn from this incident, where everyone was otherwise safe and ok, than the alternative.
@Isabella-tf1qc What is this Mickey Mouse sh*t? Keep your fake God and Jihad to yourself, and get off my comment thread.
12:17 reminds me of that DHL crash over southern germany several years ago. TCAS and ATC gave the pilots conflicting instructions. one pilot obeyed ATC, the other listened to TCAS, and as a result, a DHL freighter and a russian airline hit each other somewhere near lake constance. not good, that.
And so many victims 😢. RIP!
It happened at Überlingen.
Surely having runways being so close and parallel to each other is like begging for this to happen
Indeed.
It's nice to see you say something in support of better mental health via the Betterhelp sponsorship. Mental health is something we just don't talk enough about. Great, informative video as always! Cheers from Canada.
Terrific summary of this complex incident thanks Petter, which I had heard about. It’s a long time since I flew a plane, actually a 747-400, into CDG. This brought back memories as the weather was somewhat similar, and yes, a bit challenging which is (kind of) always welcome as it breaks the monotony.
That was so interesting. Glad no one was hurt
Me too! 😎
Bravo Petter and the whole crew behind this video! Amazing presentation, graphics and editing. You have knocked it out of the park. Best wishes for u and the team😊
This channel has been a massive eye opener for me on the work of pilots and cabin crew alike
wow, this has got to be the most detailed and visually interesting video you've ever made!! amazing job💜
Glad you liked it!!
As always an excellent review! I would perhaps add that loss of direct, immediate communications between CDG and LBG controllers should have also precluded simultaneous operations, as turn instructions for separation shouldn't have to wait for a phone call. Great job!
Peter, I do love your content. And it is so satisfying to watch a video where disaster has been averted. Great job, sir.
Outstanding production quality this time around. Really well done. Thanks!
Massive YIKES moment here. Everyone doing their job, still this happens. Glad they revisited the CDG limitations!
Thank you Mentour Pilot for another amazing video! Your positive demeanor and inquisitiveness are such a gift to the world
Excellent. Even non aviators can comprehend what you're talking about
As usual the content of the video is simplified, detailed and very well sorted. But what I liked most about this video is the graphical presentation. The way TCAS is explained and the way drift of Hop air is shown , I just loved it. That's great improvement. 👍
I like the graphics you’ve used to describe the wind shear procedures!
A sweaty moment for the ATC no doubt
Finally a feel good news story. Thx, this made my day.
What an interesting situation and a well done video. As always, hats off to you and your team. I learn a lot from this
Thanks for sharing, I always learn so much.
My pleasure!
wow, have never heard about such winds. Love this video already after 2 minutes
Great to hear!!
Great job to everyone involved!
Takeoff clearance of A320 should have been delayed by 10 seconds to allow ERJ170 to land safely in the crosswind condition.
May be that only the plane in approch know all about?
AYYY more content! Thank you so very much for the upload. Hopefully all is ok where you are
Great coverage as usual!! Thank You!!!
As a frequent flyer myself who watches air crash investigation whilst flying (don’t ask why) this channel is now my new favourite channel as I never knew how much behind the scenes goes wrong without passengers knowing much. Thank you for making this channel
This channel is a gift, Petter. Thank you for another great dissertation.
Another absolutely fantastic video. I was on the edge of my seat throughout the video, it felt more like a 5min video than a 30m video 😅
This was a great episode, particularly because the flight crews and air traffic controller were mostly not at fault for the incident. It's a great exomple of just how important proper system design is in preventing incidents.
I have just recently found your channel. I have binged the Air Crash Investigation series several times already, now I am in binge mode on your channel. This content is amazing! Thank you.
Yet another quality video that leaves me hungry for more! Thank you Petter and team and I look forward to the next one!
That TCAS system is one of the best things ever invented!
nice. a near miss caused by odd events where every single person did almost exactly what they were supposed to do and averted a disaster.
I was thinking it and then you said it--"The system worked." YES!
Thank you very much for the very good explanations! As allways! Happy landings and come safe home alltimes!
Great video thank you!
I was literally waiting for next video! Pretty excited.. let me watch now! 😄
Thankyou Petter today is my day off and i really need something to binge on, great video!