Vintage RCD/GFCI teardown with story (weird sensing system)

2021 ж. 22 Мам.
66 479 Рет қаралды

This old Wylex RCD /GFCI is the simplest I have ever seen. The sensing core is especially unusual.
It's worth mentioning that the unit is marked as an ELCB (Earth Leakage Circuit Breaker), but these days it would be called an RCD (Residual Current Device) in the UK or a GFCI (Ground Fault Circuit Interrupter) in other countries.
The term ELCB was dropped a long time ago due to the risk of confusion between voltage operated units (a coil detects a voltage difference between metalwork) and current operated units that detect a difference between the current flowing out and back through the breaker. The modern current operated versions are much safer as they detect more fault conditions than the old voltage operated devices.
This one was used in a TT electrical system where the house is supplied from overhead lines with a single phase and neutral, but no earth. It relies on an earth electrode at the substation (bonded to neutral) and a local earth electrode at the house to provide a path for fault current. Because the impedance (resistance) of the path through the ground is higher than a direct wired link it requires that the installation be protected by one or more RCDs/GFCIs to ensure that any significant current leakage from live to earth/ground trips out the power for safety.
This unit was retired from use after it failed to trip with a significant live to earth fault that passed 8A continuously (suggesting a 30 ohm earth loop impedance). It was replaced with an isolator and a new distribution board with two separate sections, each with its own 30mA RCD.
I recommend testing RCDs at least once a year by pressing the test button. It emulates a fault and does a full test of sensing and tripping the breaker. If the breaker does not trip instantly or after the designated time delay for programmable units, then do not hold the button in for longer as it may result in failure of the test resistor with unpredictable results.
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#ElectronicsCreators

Пікірлер
  • A perfect storm of mundane faults combined to make quite the mystery!

    @CollectiveSoftware@CollectiveSoftware3 жыл бұрын
  • It’s clever really, no electronics at all, just clockwork and electromagnetism. It must have been great fun designing these.

    @WineScrounger@WineScrounger3 жыл бұрын
    • Clipsal (and probably others) still make electro mechanical RCDs

      @joepollard8755@joepollard87553 жыл бұрын
  • About 4 years ago I had a call from my wife's friend. Her cold mains tap had hot water coming out of it. No RCD ( House circa 1955) and a short to gtround in the house. Entire house was a Faraday cage at 230v, and not a tingle anywhere. 8 ohms resistance on the "earthed" water pipe. 8kw flowing down the water pipe resulting in an 8kw soil heater. Isolated fault and asked how long the cold tap had been flowing hot water. - 2 weeks. She had an £800 electric bill for that quarter.

    @rose-ey6ct@rose-ey6ct3 жыл бұрын
    • 😬😯 - ⚠️

      @samuelfellows6923@samuelfellows69233 жыл бұрын
    • Wow!

      @nutgone100@nutgone1003 жыл бұрын
    • Woah

      @soupflood@soupflood3 жыл бұрын
  • That transformer core will be made from something like Permalloy which is basically 80% Nickel and 20% Iron. It was widely used for mains frequency and low frequency switch mode PSUs and probably still is. It has a very high permeability which makes an accurate current transformer. It's used in the form of a thin tape to reduce eddy current losses.

    @petehiggins33@petehiggins333 жыл бұрын
    • Correct on all points: Tape wound transformer cores are not at all unusual, especially in Toroid form The thin tape forms laminations in order to prevent eddy currents The metal will be Nu-Metal or something similar (eg not steel) And it's a Current transformer, so one turn is sufficient

      @graemezimmer604@graemezimmer6043 жыл бұрын
    • @@graemezimmer604 I think you meant mu-metal.

      @dhaen@dhaen3 жыл бұрын
    • @@dhaen Mu metal is malleable, permalloy seems to be harder. As mu metal loses its properties when bent it is not so practical. The name is confusing - the "perm" does not relate to permanent magnets it seems.

      @pizzablender@pizzablender2 жыл бұрын
  • It is called a tape wound core. That is how the toroidal cores for saturating (not resonant) Royer Oscillators are made. It is a torroid with a single turn.

    @Chris_Grossman@Chris_Grossman3 жыл бұрын
  • We were using these fault current operated devices in the UK in the early 1960s, sometimes still using mains water supply as the earth (ground) conductor. I pressed the test button on one at the same moment as the plumber was under the sink disconnecting the pipe. He became part of the earth circuit and was quite annoyed about it. We started using earth spikes for a time but they were soon superseded by the present fault voltage system.

    @rjmun580@rjmun5803 жыл бұрын
    • What does the "fault voltage system" use as zero reference if not some metal connected to mother Earth?

      @johndododoe1411@johndododoe14113 жыл бұрын
    • Some seem to measure voltage difference between neutral and earth.

      @bigclivedotcom@bigclivedotcom3 жыл бұрын
    • @@bigclivedotcom This was directed at RJ Mun calling RCDs outdated in favour of some system by that name, while simultaneously misunderstanding how RCD test buttons work. Still waiting for him to explain what he was on about, though it might be the IT system, or TN-S with an old school Earth current relay.

      @johndododoe1411@johndododoe14113 жыл бұрын
  • A few months ago I was working on this parked trailer/cabin that had suffered a ground fault. It was plugged into this 50A plug that was grounded by a little brass strip going to the screws in the pedestal it was mounted in. The breaker feeding this plug had been disabled, the one inside the trailer didn't trip for some reason, and the brass strip worked as quite an efficient fuse, so the ground wire and everything "grounded" in the trailer became live. It took a while to figure out why turning this breaker "On" would cause a reading of 0 volts from live to ground.

    @deltab9768@deltab97683 жыл бұрын
    • ouch, that could give you quite an "interesting" experience, touching anything grounded...

      @alexanderkupke920@alexanderkupke9202 жыл бұрын
    • @@alexanderkupke920 Yeah I think the snow was just cold enough, and my boots were just dry enough, that I didn't become the new ground wire when I touched the metal cover of the outdoor panel 😂. The time where I was working near a pool and water had condensed into the breakers was another story...

      @deltab9768@deltab97682 жыл бұрын
  • As a young child (age about 10) I had a crystal radio grounded to an outlet screw (which we later found to be ungrounded), with an antenna run along the ceiling thru several rooms. I came home from school one day to find said radio a pile of slag and a line burnt into the carpet where the antenna made contact. Fault analysis determined my younger sister was to blame. :) An errant ball had knocked down the antenna, which made contact with a central heat register in the floor, which managed to drive a rather large current thru the crystal radio to the outlet screw "ground". Potential between the outlet screw and the heating register measured over 100 volts, with enough power to dimly light a 60watt incandescent. The furnace in the basement was newer than the 1950s upstairs wiring and was grounded. The outlet device was replaced which eliminated the "live" ground, and led to the discovery that there was no ground of any kind available to that outlet (only two wires, oilcloth outer jacket, no conduit). The original outlet was a triplex of 2-hole sockets and must have had an internal fault, but that my youthful disassembly was unable to discover.

    @Sylvan_dB@Sylvan_dB3 жыл бұрын
  • Those boxes are comically thin from a US perspective. Ordinarily our boxes are about 3-3½” deep, which fits nicely inside of a stud wall. Boxes like those exist here, but they're very much a specialty item. The one time I ran into one it was a real PITA to deal with. Someday I'd really like to send you or John Ward a US equivalent to your "consumer unit". The innards are just so totally different in concept that I find it amazing. That core is acting as an amplifier for the magnetic field, so you're going to be getting more flux in the sense wire than you would without it. You're still dependent on the circuit being AC. Detecting a DC fault to ground would be a bit dubious, I think.

    @PaulSteMarie@PaulSteMarie3 жыл бұрын
    • They're effectively the same as a three-phase DB over here, except they're still made like it's the 1960s. Nothing earth shattering.

      @Monkeh616@Monkeh6163 жыл бұрын
  • When Big Clive gets caught out, what hope do the rest of us have?

    @seanet1310@seanet13103 жыл бұрын
  • Always when I see the carnage after an exploration like this of Clive I think: "Okay, now put it back together again". 🤣 And sometimes he actually did, when he shows the item, completely intact again, in a live stream where he mentions it as a soon to be released video, the Patreon supporters already have seen. 🙏

    @Quick_Fix@Quick_Fix3 жыл бұрын
  • Still got that exact same “trip” and Wylex fuse board in use today at MIL’s in deepest, darkest N. Ireland. 😂

    @zstation64@zstation643 жыл бұрын
    • Bout ye!

      @KarlHamilton@KarlHamilton3 жыл бұрын
  • the shallow depth boxes where usually used on the lighting circuit, the 20mm box was for sockets, spur switches, whilst the extra deep was mainly for cooker, shower circuits... if you thought the e.l.c.b. was fun the older voltage operated circuit breaker where a hoot, a fault on one house could knock the power off for several neighbors too...

    @stephensmith1118@stephensmith11183 жыл бұрын
  • A wonderful exploration and this was from your house as well, in operation through the years. So cool!

    @stridermt2k@stridermt2k3 жыл бұрын
  • I find the history of RCDs fascinating. They were invented in South Africa, to protect people in the mines from electrocution. The early sensing circuit used a special vacuum florescent tube. South Africa was the first country to adopt RCDs as standard, in domestic installations. I think the UK was quite late to adopt RCDs ( Mabe fear of nuisance tripping?)

    @MyProjectBoxChannel@MyProjectBoxChannel3 жыл бұрын
    • When Denmark adapted them for new installs in the 1970s, the breakers were already a newer style DIN rail units, and any retrofit into existing installs might make it the only piece of DIN rail in the consumer unit. So I'm guessing this UK RCD is from an earlier decade. It may be older than Clive himself.

      @johndododoe1411@johndododoe14113 жыл бұрын
    • We had older, voltage operated ELCBs in the UK for TT systems. They were terrible for nuisance tripping I believe (& I think they needed a separate earth rod?). Typical British industry probably just got stuck in its ways & didn’t want change.

      @nutgone100@nutgone1003 жыл бұрын
    • Just like we're still dragging our heels with the type-A RCDs, while the hobbyists at the IET invent ever more unlikely accident scenarios that must be protected against.

      @bigclivedotcom@bigclivedotcom3 жыл бұрын
    • @@bigclivedotcom they are a protection racket mafia! The stupid one day course to sign off real electrician's work. Don't get me started 😂

      @MyProjectBoxChannel@MyProjectBoxChannel3 жыл бұрын
    • @@johndododoe1411 DIN rail came much later for circuit breakers and RCDs, in South Africa. It's nice to see it all standard now. The stuff in the USA is very different, but interesting.

      @MyProjectBoxChannel@MyProjectBoxChannel3 жыл бұрын
  • I replaced a mains "ELCB" circa 1980 in my house with TT system, with a RCD, I wanted to add additional earthing for a Hi-Fi system; adding additional earth's would have compromised it's function. Very interesting Clive, thanks for sharing.

    @bostedtap8399@bostedtap83993 жыл бұрын
  • I called the electrician when you described the cascade of fun. Would've been easier for you to say "Colonel Mustard, in the Conservatory with a lead pipe".

    @markchristopher9515@markchristopher95153 жыл бұрын
  • There was a device a bit like that in my garage when we moved here 20+ years ago. First thing I did was press the Test button. It immediately went bang. I replaced it, of course, with a newer RCCB. I still press the test button, but no more bangs. :)

    @GodmanchesterGoblin@GodmanchesterGoblin3 жыл бұрын
  • I don’t remember how I found this channel but I’m never disappointed listening to you explain these sometimes daft products. Keep it up Clive! ⚡️⚡️

    @rossbaus6816@rossbaus68163 жыл бұрын
  • I had just bought those socket splitters for those hacked dollar store bulbs a couple weeks back... too much fun messing with cheap lights! thanks for inspiring, as always

    @aaaaaaaaaassssssssdf@aaaaaaaaaassssssssdf3 жыл бұрын
  • I remember these very well, late 70, early 80's while working for British Rail. While attending an electronics course at college, I had a project to build a ELCB tester to make sure they did trip, not only at the rated current, but also within the approved time limit. Since these worked on balancing the current through the sense coil, the tester allowed a small amount of current to bypass the the coil, hence giving an imbalance. Cant remember the circuit details, but it counted the peaks of voltage passing after hitting the 'test' button - giving a 'Pass' - 'NoPass' sort of test - very primitive, but I passed the course :) - by the way, great watching these vids Clive

    @hovedd@hovedd3 жыл бұрын
  • Happy Sunday to you from Sioux Falls South Dakota!

    @markjewell2821@markjewell28213 жыл бұрын
  • Gotta watch out for those weasel lamps. They go "pop!".

    @gyrgrls@gyrgrls3 жыл бұрын
  • Still got one these in my house. Had it fitted in 1976 and felt very modern as all the neighbouring houses on our new estate made do with wired fuses and nothing else. Still works using the test button or one of those plug--in test plugs with a RCCD test button.

    @wattsupmike7593@wattsupmike75933 жыл бұрын
  • It's always lovely when you take apart a very old piece of switchgear and a concerning amount of white powdery/crystalline substance falls out of it...

    @danwhite3224@danwhite32243 жыл бұрын
    • Asbestos 😬😬😬

      @tomw6458@tomw64583 жыл бұрын
    • @@tomw6458 I would guess its more the shavings from him drilling out the pins

      @Ramog1000@Ramog10003 жыл бұрын
    • Ah, well, I guess I'll clean it up asbestas I can...

      @deltab9768@deltab97683 жыл бұрын
    • I assessed it for possible asbestos components as I took it apart. Usually Chrysotile.

      @bigclivedotcom@bigclivedotcom3 жыл бұрын
  • Pretty damn neat...I love seeing the older stuff and how they solved problems back when :)

    @gregorythomas333@gregorythomas3333 жыл бұрын
  • Amazing how simple it is that there is enough power induced through that small wire to create the magnetic force which trips the mechanism. Considering the age of the device I wonder how much development went into making it, no electronics just a bit of electro-magnetic force to push that small pin out and the mechanism to release the breaker. Great seeing such an old bit of kit which no one would give a second thought to what went into it when it gets replaced. In a way it's good it failed so you could make this video for us as you would never have replaced it had it not failed.

    @tazz1669@tazz16693 жыл бұрын
  • for such a sensitive mechanical system it makes sense now why it's mounted on rigid fiber glass composite sheets

    @wreckervilla@wreckervilla3 жыл бұрын
  • I don’t know why but I love your videos when you end them with the word indeed

    @nomusicrc@nomusicrc3 жыл бұрын
  • Your deepest box is standard in the US. The shallow one would only be allowed for low voltage like under 50, and not line power AC at all.

    @MostlyInteresting@MostlyInteresting3 жыл бұрын
    • The 5/8 inch "pancake box" is a thing here too. But it's only used under light fixtures that have a little room for connections in the back of the fixture. no way would an American switch fit in one of those!

      @deltab9768@deltab97683 жыл бұрын
  • Oddly enough I have one of these 'protecting' a PIR light on the side of the house. The feed to it is taken from a lighting circuit on the, much more modern, split load, RCD consumer unit. Very interesting. I'd not given it's age much thought. It used to protect the garage when there was just a pendant light and a single 13amp socket.

    @PurityVendetta@PurityVendetta3 жыл бұрын
  • I always love the dimpled metal plates that they used to use in old electronic gear. I don't know why, but I just find it pleasing... That rolled steel wrapped core is typical for any toroidal transformer that I've seen so far.

    @FrontSideBus@FrontSideBus3 жыл бұрын
  • Bit odd, I missed this last week, oh well.Great video what ever time it shows up.

    @dcallan812@dcallan8123 жыл бұрын
  • I came for the story...wasn't disappointed :)

    @chapelchicks8851@chapelchicks88513 жыл бұрын
    • One aspect of the story I missed out was my concern that since it apparently wasn't earth fault current (it was) it must have been live to neutral current instead, and 2kW is a lot of heat. My brain then obliged by adding the smell of non-existent smoke itself!

      @bigclivedotcom@bigclivedotcom3 жыл бұрын
  • My CU has the later 30ma/63A load version of this - a rather decisive clunk/toing when they trip!

    @andrew1210931@andrew12109313 жыл бұрын
  • Watching this video got me thinking about the old heating system we have in our house, wylex HiHeat, I tried researching it but couldn’t find anything substantial. It was fully electric heating controlled by timer and thermostats in each room. Wylex stuff really does last forever, it was still working when we moved in 10yrs ago

    @BHDelannoy@BHDelannoy3 жыл бұрын
    • I’d love to see a video on that!

      @nutgone100@nutgone1003 жыл бұрын
  • Great. I spent hours searching for this on yt. Eventually made my own vid with my best guess as to how these things worked- then i find they you- someone i have subscribed to and watch regularly have exactly tear down i wanted to research before doing my vids!

    @drfill9210@drfill92108 ай бұрын
  • Nice little roll of shim stock hiding in there.

    @jimsvideos7201@jimsvideos72013 жыл бұрын
  • Once had a flat car battery, first time in 3 years. I would have charged it on the garage bench but it was packed with crap so stood it on a box with charger in the middle of the floor. Six hours later the electrics went out and finally found a "boiled over" battery. Stood for a while contemplating the purchase of replacement battery and charger along with fuse replacement only to get a drip on the head from the shower in the bathroom above that decided to leak perfectly in line 5 years after the installation. It felt like Final Destination.

    @ooslum@ooslum3 жыл бұрын
    • I had a flat car battery once too. Luckily I had packed a hand pump in the car and was able to pump it back up.

      @daviddavidson2357@daviddavidson23573 жыл бұрын
    • @@daviddavidson2357 hope you topped up your blinker fluid while you were at it?

      @thebrowns5337@thebrowns53373 жыл бұрын
    • @@thebrowns5337 Yeah. I also added some spring water to the shocks.

      @daviddavidson2357@daviddavidson23573 жыл бұрын
    • had a car battery on a mk1 gte blow straight in half...amazing but scary no idea how it happened

      @bramcoteelectrical1088@bramcoteelectrical10882 жыл бұрын
  • Thanks for sharing another interesting device teardown. 😎👌🏻

    @jtveg@jtveg3 жыл бұрын
  • Thanks for reminding me to regularly test them.

    @Aristo12@Aristo123 жыл бұрын
  • Guess that is why in the Netherlands the boxes (and tubes) that sit in the wall are always made from PVC. Only old houses (where the copper wire may even be wrapped in paper and canvas) you would find steel tubes and boxes, however the switches would then be on top of the wall instead of inserted leaving room for cables still.

    @thijsvanleeuwen@thijsvanleeuwen3 жыл бұрын
  • Very well explained

    @EasyOne@EasyOne3 жыл бұрын
  • A video showing off the new electric kit would be cool.

    @TechGorilla1987@TechGorilla19873 жыл бұрын
  • Good to see you test your RCDs at regular intervals ;)

    @workmandan87@workmandan873 жыл бұрын
  • That three part lever system you showed at the end was fascinating. It looked like something that could have been around from before the days of steam. But surely resetting it would be complicated as each lever would need to be moved back into place in the right order (and not allowed to press against the wheel until it too was in place).

    @Graham_Rule@Graham_Rule3 жыл бұрын
    • Maybe applying force to the main contact will result in an inverted cascade of levers snapping into position?

      @johndododoe1411@johndododoe14113 жыл бұрын
  • That coil is made from Permalloy, which is a magnetic foil used to make tape heads. Used as it is linear, but has a well defined saturation point. The magnetic coil will trip with 30mA of current, and has a tiny magnet that is adjusted to set sensitivity. The coil will only trip on one direction of AC current flow, as the magnetising from the coil increases and counteracts the small bias magnet field, till the armature is able to pull off with the spring tension. Other half cycle the field is reinforced and does not release. I have taken older units apart, Fuchs made ones, which also had that circuit, though the ones from the 1970's made by Heinemann included a small electronic circuit in them, which was a full bridge rectifier, using 2 10V zener diodes for half the bridge, a small tantalum bead dipped capacitor as smoothing, then a BRY39 gate controlled thyristor with a Rc network attached to the positive trigger circuit, so it would trigger and put a pulse of current through the coil if the leakage reached 30mA, or for larger imbalances the zeners would clamp the voltage, and the fast rise would trigger the GCS to fire and trip the coil. More modern ones (circa 2012) have an updated circuit, and use some mains power to have a small electronic circuit to compare the current in the sense winding, and use a small signal thyristor to trip the coil via resistors directly off the mains, so no need for a sensitive coil mechanism. This later one also has lost neutral detection, using a second set of diodes that allow neutral to float up to 1V2 above ground before tripping, so detecting loss of neutral inside the premises, though it does not work with TT systems, but only with TN-CS systems. Came with a set of MOV units inside, that would clamp spikes down somewhat, but would also trip out the breaker on prolonged high mains voltage over 300VAC. New breakers no longer have this, MOV or ground wire, so you can test them with an insulation tester in circuit, just turn off the breaker. Older ones you had to disconnect the outputs to do insulation test. The new ones also are feed agnostic, you can feed them from the base or the top and thy will not care, unlike the old ones which would burn out the trip coils.

    @SeanBZA@SeanBZA3 жыл бұрын
  • We still have one. Seems to work fine. It does trip when it has good reason to.

    @jondonnelly4831@jondonnelly48313 жыл бұрын
  • That force multiplication mechanism reminds me of the three ring system for cutting away parachutes.

    @galfisk@galfisk3 жыл бұрын
  • We still have some of those huge Wylex RCD's at work, still working fine and passing trip time tests!

    @chrisswindell7517@chrisswindell75173 жыл бұрын
    • It's a very simple unit. No time delay other than a possible lag in the core.

      @bigclivedotcom@bigclivedotcom3 жыл бұрын
  • My old cottage is about to have some work done to replace the consumer unit but at the moment it is an old brown Wylex fuse box (6 ways) and an old brown Crabtree earth leakage trip, the trip has a connection to earth and should, if still working as specified, trip if 50v is sensed on the earth. I did the last wiring here about 25yrs ago and yet testing last week with a modern insulation tester came up with good results. The earth stake I put in back then is still good, I intend to keep it as a stake as I do restoration of older pro audio equipment and a good stake gives a cleaner, quieter earth than PME etc. Soon I'm hoping to complete a home workshop which is going to have extensive wiring (more than the house) which is why I have to bring the house up to date.

    @nicholasvalentine3907@nicholasvalentine39073 жыл бұрын
  • I wish products these days could be this simple and reliable!

    @chrisandrus2735@chrisandrus27353 жыл бұрын
    • Ultimately it wasn't reliable though, as it started failing intermittently, which is really bad for a device like this. I think using a pure magnetic trip mechanism for this is going to have reliability problems, the mechanicals involved are just too sensitive and prone to sticking.

      @RobertHancock1@RobertHancock13 жыл бұрын
    • @@RobertHancock1 That is why the modern ones use a mains operated trip coil, to get a high trip force. Drawback is that this coil can then burn out if the breaker is incorrectly wired, as it has it's supply power derived from the output terminals.

      @SeanBZA@SeanBZA3 жыл бұрын
  • There's a good PSA here - if an RCB doesn't trip when you press the button, manually switch it off and on and try again. You'll still want to replace it sooner than later, but you'll know the reason it wasn't tripping was mechanical.

    @petersage5157@petersage51572 жыл бұрын
  • Standard Wylex RCD. The coil of iron is a tiny CT. Pretty simple but very clever thing. The 125mA ones for farms and stuff don't even have the test resistor. They kind of rely on the resistive voltage drop on the neutral. Only for the test button mind. I have had a few occasions where the button doesn't work but it tests fine. Earth faults🤣 can have you running in circles. Thing is though, on a lighting circuit unless it's a catastrophic meltdown how is a simple bulb fault going to trip the RCD? The bulb and it's holder, unless metal, has no earth anyway.

    @mhbh1979@mhbh19793 жыл бұрын
  • Good Monday evening to you sir from wellington Somerset

    @MrDbone75@MrDbone753 жыл бұрын
  • BigClive if you like the simplicity and elegance of this, you need to do a Gas Valve with a thermocouple flame failure

    @kwinterburn@kwinterburn3 жыл бұрын
    • I'll keep an eye out for that. I'm guessing the thermocouple will power a small coil directly that retains a trigger flap.

      @bigclivedotcom@bigclivedotcom3 жыл бұрын
  • Thanks for the good video 👍 😁

    @grantrennie@grantrennie3 жыл бұрын
  • I fitted one of these when I rewired my house in 1982 - replaced it in about 90 when it failed in a similar manner to Clive's.

    @SteveDurbin@SteveDurbin3 жыл бұрын
  • From the circuit diagram on the label it looks as though the test resistor is disconnected as soon as the breaker trips assuming it is wired as instructed on the label with the incoming feed to the top of the unit. If the breaker does not trip when tested you probably need to change it anyway so if the resistor burns out it does not matter.

    @johnmurrell3175@johnmurrell31753 жыл бұрын
  • ELCB means earth leakage core balance, which is a clearer description than RCD.

    @mikenewman4078@mikenewman40783 жыл бұрын
  • Audiophiles use those foil coils Usually made from copper either bare or tin plated. I used them for high current CDC circuits. You can shoot a construction nail clear across the room if you get the discharge timing just right.

    @yaidontknowwhattoput@yaidontknowwhattoput3 жыл бұрын
  • Ye not in Scootlund noo Clive. TT stands for “International Auto-Cycle Tourist Trophy”

    @Nuts-Bolts@Nuts-Bolts3 жыл бұрын
    • How come it's TT but not IACTT ? for politically correct acronym ?

      @MD4564@MD45643 жыл бұрын
  • 6 downvotes (at the time of viewing)? Who the hell downvotes Clive's videos? Seriously

    @tntgrunf@tntgrunf3 жыл бұрын
    • They are not necessarily down-votes as such. For many, a down-vote is the only way to stop the youtube algorithm recommending things.

      @graemezimmer604@graemezimmer6043 жыл бұрын
    • Ralphy!

      @alistairboyer@alistairboyer3 жыл бұрын
  • That's a nicely made unit, of British manufacture. Simple but effective, probably has lasted 40-50 years and just wore out from use. It could probably be rebuilt.

    @vancouverman4313@vancouverman43133 жыл бұрын
  • Fascinating stuff. I lost faith in the Hager brand after a relatively expensive RCBO failed to proceed after only 3 years. I pressed the test button to be presented with a buzz, burning smell and smoke after less than 1 second instead of the reasurring click you expect.

    @v8snail@v8snail3 жыл бұрын
    • Unfortunately that's common with Hager breakers. The trip button initiates the trip sequence, but it fails to trip, and the coil which is only rated for very brief operation is left running. That can result in much more than smoke.

      @bigclivedotcom@bigclivedotcom3 жыл бұрын
    • @@bigclivedotcom Especially if the smoke is emanating from someone hanging off the circuit it was supposed to trip for...

      @v8snail@v8snail3 жыл бұрын
  • I remember when i lived in market weighton, at one point after it had rained quite a bit (and the town cenre ended up flooded, athough i didnt see the flooding in person, from what ive been told the flooding only really prevented vehicles from passing) the RCD in our house tripped after waiting a minuite and resetting it, it tripped again, and eventually it got to the point where it woudlnt even reset fast foward a few days, afte the circuit causing the problem has been identified, the MCB for that circuit is left off (it was a L to E fault from what it seems) fast foward a few more days, i try turning the MCB back on to see if the fault went away on its own, nope, RCD instantly trips, and either the MCB tripped immidiatly as i turned it on, or i hadnt moved the lever on it far enough up for it to latch when the RCD tripped and so it turned off again when i released it, so i reset the RCD fast foward a few more days, an electritian comes in, and they find some old wires (red and black) connected into the light in the kitchen (these wires went off to a different light somewhere, the house had been rewired before we got it, so there shouldnt have been any old wires, the electritian disconnected the wires, and after the power was switched back on, the RCD didnt trip

    @pineappleroad@pineappleroad3 жыл бұрын
  • i feel so old as i used to fit these when i was starting out !!!!

    @firsteerr@firsteerr3 жыл бұрын
    • By our standards they're not that old. Electrical fitements have evolved a lot with time - but not always in a good way.

      @bigclivedotcom@bigclivedotcom3 жыл бұрын
  • I've now taken dozens of these apart and I've also pulled the core apart s well. The plastic shield is actually quite easy to remove. I was scrapping the thing when i made my vids, so i had barely any idea what was going on, but it seems i got it mostly right.

    @drfill9210@drfill92108 ай бұрын
  • The TT system you described is very similar to what we have in the Tennessee Valley Authority system. We have a 8 foot ground rod at meter and on transformer pole that feeds the home. There is a ground wire run down every pole I’ve noticed lately. Maybe lightning protection? Interesting as always. Have a great day Big Clive ⚡️🏴󠁧󠁢󠁳󠁣󠁴󠁿⚡️

    @EricWillis77@EricWillis773 жыл бұрын
    • Yes lightning protection for each pole, and also your house ground reference, normally on the other side of the pole so the 2 ground rods do not touch each other directly. The primary side has it's own grounding rod and the secondary a separate one, plus the houses connected to the pole pig each have one at the meter, to reduce the rise in ground voltage with a close by lightning strike. There normally is either a spark gap or a surge arrestor stack by each transformer that shunts lightning induced overvoltage to ground, and spark gaps at the poles so that the energy is absorbed before it reaches the house wiring. Direct hit on the wires your electrics in the house are fried, but the wiring itself survives, which is what the power company cares about. You would need to add your own surge arrestors to the house side, and to appliances, to protect them. Generally the electric stove and heaters survive, though the clock in the stove might not, but anything with silicon inside dies, along with all light bulbs that are turned on.

      @SeanBZA@SeanBZA3 жыл бұрын
    • @@SeanBZA Yep I’ve had lightning run in the old house I used to live in and it actually burned holes in the edison base screw in glass bulbs. Right through the glass! Also blowed a fist size hole through the steel back of stove! Not a good experience! After the noise and smoke and underwear change and blown fuses replaced all was good. Miraculously LOL

      @EricWillis77@EricWillis773 жыл бұрын
    • That wire between the poles is called the skywire

      @stereotypicalLame@stereotypicalLame3 жыл бұрын
    • @@stereotypicalLame We just call them overhead lines. Two actually where I’m at. Top is 13,800 volts bottom wire is neutral. At least that’s what a lineman told me once.

      @EricWillis77@EricWillis773 жыл бұрын
    • @@EricWillis77 I'm not talking about the power lines. I'm talking about the very top, thin wire

      @stereotypicalLame@stereotypicalLame3 жыл бұрын
  • F&G RCD relabeled as wylex. It was one the standard RCD here in Austria. Some guys say that it was made in gdr

    @simonschertler3034@simonschertler30343 жыл бұрын
  • Clive, I was just thinking after reading some of the excellent comments below that if you were on a NEM system, and the RCD / ELCB jammed like this, the fuse may have looked just a little different. In fact a little smoke may have decided to holiday or even take up residence in the wall box.

    @mikenewman4078@mikenewman40783 жыл бұрын
  • Interesting story 👌🏼

    @Cablesmith@Cablesmith3 жыл бұрын
  • So simple, yet so complex.

    @johnnymnemonic69@johnnymnemonic693 жыл бұрын
  • Notification crew in the house!

    @TechGorilla1987@TechGorilla19873 жыл бұрын
  • I tore down a US outlet GFI on my channel.. It had a pair of 16 or 18 gauge wires running through the sense coil, not much for something rated 20A. I guess its OK when there's only a few cm of it and the sense coil works as a heatsink? The trip mechanism had a microchip, a thyristor, then this little solenoid that draws over half an amp, of 120v, for half a cycle of 60Hz and directly releases the clip that holds the contacts down under spring pressure. I'm impressed that someone made a mechanical device that would trip on 100mA and a fraction of a volt.

    @deltab9768@deltab97683 жыл бұрын
    • Manufacturers can get away with putting more current through a wire because it is a tightly controlled setup. There's a question on the DIY Stack Exchange where somebody noticed a 12AWG wire in their 50 amp transfer switch and contacted the manufacturer.

      @eDoc2020@eDoc20203 жыл бұрын
    • @@eDoc2020 Exactly. Single conductor, connections rated more than 60C, embedded in free air or heat sinking components instead of a wall full of thermal insulation, etc.

      @deltab9768@deltab97683 жыл бұрын
    • AND all that extra solid-state circuitry is RF sensitive - sensitive to 1,000W of RF energy and sometimes as little as 100Watts on 60 meters for me anyway ...

      @uploadJ@uploadJ2 жыл бұрын
  • Quite a neat sound at around 9:00 when the device 'tripped'.

    @dragonrider4253@dragonrider42533 жыл бұрын
  • The single wire passing through the current transformer actually makes the trip coil current higher! More windings in modern RCDs work to reduce output current in a current transformer. Here you have 1:1 ratio so a 100mA fault current would (ideally) pass 100mA through that trip coil.

    @k4be.@k4be.3 жыл бұрын
  • 11:25 Whatever you do Clive, don't cut the red wire ;)

    @millomweb@millomweb3 жыл бұрын
    • Actually chuckled

      @johndododoe1411@johndododoe14113 жыл бұрын
    • @@johndododoe1411 I'm pleased you're on my wavelength :)

      @millomweb@millomweb3 жыл бұрын
  • wow they don't teach you in school about tiny copper spikes causing faults in summer. Nice timebomb!

    @dimitar4y@dimitar4y3 жыл бұрын
  • Earh leakage circuit breaker is still what these are called in the Netherlands ("aardlekschakelaar", literally earth leakage switch).

    @captainchaos3667@captainchaos36672 жыл бұрын
  • Surprised that they are still using that sort of electromechanical trip mechanism in RCDs. I don't think that has ever been used in GFCIs on this side of the pond. Of course the trip threshold is also lower at 5 mA so it might well be impractical. Certainly not possible today with all the requirements for self testing and line-load reversal detection etc.

    @RobertHancock1@RobertHancock13 жыл бұрын
  • The end part is, I think, the crux of the failure. A little skookum on those pivots etc. will stop the trip. Another recommendation to cycle your breakers say once a year, to keep all the innards from taking a set.

    @theoldbigmoose@theoldbigmoose3 жыл бұрын
  • There's a type of toroidal transformer that is used in high frequency switching power supplies and the toroids are constructed with a high permeability tape round in the Taurus shape.

    @chrissnyder2091@chrissnyder20913 жыл бұрын
    • Bull shape or torus shape?

      @johndododoe1411@johndododoe14113 жыл бұрын
    • Lol not a Taurus shape.... Autocorrect strikes again.....

      @chrissnyder2091@chrissnyder20913 жыл бұрын
  • There was one of those switches fitted in my parents house when it was rewired in late 70s very early 80s. By the mid 80s it was causing problems and it had to be removed.

    @iangrice329@iangrice3293 жыл бұрын
  • Here in greece we use plastic circular boxes for our light switches to prevent every accident that could happen i think the european (german) standarts are the best

    @mrtechs2305@mrtechs23052 жыл бұрын
  • My in-laws still have one of these on the feed to their outbuilding. I would have replaced it already, but the armoured needs replaced completely.

    @DaddyBear3000@DaddyBear30003 жыл бұрын
  • Old as the dust it's collected over the decades. Nice teardown. Would be nice to hear from any people out there that were in the manufacturing process of some of these items. Anonymously if it's a teardown of shame XD

    @Mr.T4LLY-0@Mr.T4LLY-03 жыл бұрын
  • Ooo a new video ❤️

    @WineScrounger@WineScrounger3 жыл бұрын
  • Recently took a 3 phase unit apart, and the principle was essentially the same, obviously with four wires going through the core instead of two. There was some additional passive electronics to condition the induced current though.

    @rexsceleratorum1632@rexsceleratorum16323 жыл бұрын
    • I found that the test winding had evaporated complete with _skidmarks_ (probably lightning), but the actual protection system seemed intact. Oh well.

      @rexsceleratorum1632@rexsceleratorum16323 жыл бұрын
    • On modern units, when they fail to trip the coil is often destroyed.

      @bigclivedotcom@bigclivedotcom3 жыл бұрын
    • @@bigclivedotcom The protection system was galvanically isolated, and that might explain why the surge didn't kill it. This unit was only six years old. I don't know if newer ones are different here in India. For example the major brands all still only sell lighting with switch mode drivers in India, possibly because no one wants more resistive heating when it's already 32 degrees C, but more likely because the mains voltage can vary a lot. Thank you for the response and always a pleasure to watch your videos Clive

      @rexsceleratorum1632@rexsceleratorum16323 жыл бұрын
  • Always Cool...

    @weerobot@weerobot3 жыл бұрын
  • Wooooo!! I’m early into it!!

    @grommike3726@grommike37263 жыл бұрын
  • There are thousands of ELCB's in use that never get tested and need replacement, they are well beyond there working life , I come across there fairly regularly

    @robertburrows6612@robertburrows66123 жыл бұрын
  • TT: More like "Terror! Terror!"

    @godfreypoon5148@godfreypoon51483 жыл бұрын
  • Rewirable fuses are a pain to sort specially the 5 amp wire. Is that thin is easy to break when replacing it. If having to use the fixing screw as the earth screw a ring crimp makes a better connection.

    @chrismaplethorpe6781@chrismaplethorpe67813 жыл бұрын
  • love you clive

    @evanparker@evanparker3 жыл бұрын
  • That end bit is what I'd call a mechanical darlington pair

    @iamdarkyoshi@iamdarkyoshi3 жыл бұрын
  • Very good,

    @philiphaigh8349@philiphaigh83493 жыл бұрын
  • What else would Isle of Man house have but TT Earthing?

    @Keeping_IT_Simple@Keeping_IT_Simple3 жыл бұрын
    • en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Earthing_system#TT_network

      @Brian_Of_Melbourne@Brian_Of_Melbourne3 жыл бұрын
  • I'm surprised that you went for a split load board - RCBO boards are very reasonable these days & being on a TT setup N-E faults can be a right pain to diagnose - aside from the hassle of having half the house without power!

    @farmersteve129@farmersteve1293 жыл бұрын
    • I'm not thrilled by how much they're jamming inside RCBOs. I've been sent a few that have failed with an internal arc flashover initiated by electronic failure.

      @bigclivedotcom@bigclivedotcom3 жыл бұрын
  • So the trigger mechanism contains what is a kind of a mechanical darlington amplifier. Neat indeed.

    @ralfbaechle@ralfbaechle3 жыл бұрын
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