DCS World - Greek Mirage 2000 vs Turkish F-16, October 1996
Greek and Turkish military aircraft often meet over the Aegean Sea. Most islands there are Greek and some of them are in close proximity to Turkish mainland. Different interpretation of national airspace and territorial waters lead to many incidents. In most cases, Greece launches fighters to intercept Turkish aircraft. Sometimes, those encounters lead to simulated dogfights which are usually benign but on several occasions, they ended tragically. On 8 October 1996, a flight of Turkish Phantoms were on a training flight near a Greek island. Greece send two Mirage 2000 fighters to intercept them to which Turkey responded by sending two F-16s. After those flights met, a usual 'dogfight' developed. But this one would have a very different ending.
This is the first video on this channel with Mirage 2000 module for DCS World in the starring role.
Sources:
- Airframe Details for F-16 #91-0023
www.f-16.net/aircraft-database/F-16/airframe-profile/3371/
- Battle Over the Aegean The Undeclared Greco-Turkish Air War - 18.02.2016, Sputnik International
sputniknews.com/20160218/turkey-greece-aegean-conflict-1034962176.html
- Face-Off Over The Aegean How Greek And Turkish Air Forces Stack Up
www.thedrive.com/the-war-zone/36088/face-off-in-the-aegean-how-greek-and-turkish-air-forces-stack-up
- Greek Mirage 2000 vs Turkish F-16 Key Aero
www.key.aero/forum/modern-military-aviation/23668-greek-mirage-2000-vs-turkish-f-16
- Turkish and Greek fighters engage in dogfight over the Aegean Sea - The Aviationist
theaviationist.com/2015/12/30/aegean-sea-dogfight/
- Turkish Authorities Seeking to Sue Greek Air Force Pilot for Downing Turkish F-16 in 1996
greekreporter.com/2016/05/18/turkish-authorities-seeking-to-sue-greek-air-force-pilot-for-downing-turkish-f-16-in-1996/
- TWO SIDES OF THE AEGEAN MILITARY BALANCE OF TURKISH & GREEK AIR FORCES IN THE REGION - Defence Turkey Magazine
www.defenceturkey.com/en/content/two-sides-of-the-aegean-military-balance-of-turkish-greek-air-forces-in-the-region-4236
Music: Oud Dance - Doug Maxwell
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#DCSWorldHistoricalReenactment #MilitaryAviationHistory
Here's a quick explanation of (part of) the territorial dispute: countries typically exert territorial control 12 nautical miles off their coastlines; but if Greece were to do that, the Aegean Sea would become a Greek lake. So Turkey demands that both countries keep to a 6 mile limit in the Aegean, considering it a casus belli if Greece were to increase it. Greece has been complying with that, but considers 6 miles to be ridiculously low for airspace, so has declared its control to 10 miles there. Turkey does not recognize that and keeps challenging it with overflights, through what it calls 'neutral' airspace. Greece intercepts Turkish intrusions to maintain its claim on the 10 mile airspace limit.
That is a precise explanation, thanks for contributing!
No offense, but the Aegean IS a Greek lake. That's a fact. Hell, my warship (USN) came out of Marmaris, Turkey, after a 5-day rest, a fact well-known to everyone in NATO, Literally the moment we hit the 6nm mark, a flight of Greek AF A7's was quickly on top buzzing us, calling us on the guard channel, trying to identify who we were - never mind the YUUUUUUGE US Flag flying of the main mast.
No offense, since Aegean has more than 3000 islands and islets and Turkey has namely 2 Imbros and Tenedos and since Lausanne Treaty recognises that Turkey has no other right to any island and islet except the two above, Aegean Sea IS a Greek Lake. That is the reason why Turkey is talking about altering the provisions of the Lausanne Treaty. Also the territorial airspace was extended since the 1930's to 10 nautical miles with any turkey's objection but remembered to react after the 1974 Cyprus invasion. Now it is complete and objective.
According to the Louzanne International Aggreement, Aegean islans should not be armed but Greece is arming the islands threatening the Turkish mainland. So these islands status is in danger by international laws. And, in addition to this, there are islands (12 big ones) which are grey, which means, are not given to Greece with any international aggrement after Ottoman Empire's fall. They are just invaded by Greece by the support of UK and Russia, these are not legally Greece islands. Aegean will not be Greek Lake, was not and will be never. This murder which this video stated, was happened in real, although Greek Air Force rejected for years but that Mirage is still carrying hit mark.
@@pointblank722 TURKS ATTACK ONLY WHEN THEY ARE SURE THEY WILL WIN , BUT WHEN THEY ARE NOT SURE THEY PLAY CHICKEN.WE ARE NOT IRAQ , WE ARE NOT SYRIA , WE ARE NOT ARMENIA , I HAVE SEEN SO MANY TAPES OF TURKIH PLANES BEING LOCKED THAT I CAN SLEEP CALM WHEN GREEKS FLY OVER THE AEGEAN.HELLENIC MAINLAND IS THE SEA OF THE AEGEAN AND THAT IS WHY I T H A S A G R E E K N A M E CAUSE IT IS GREEK SINCE 4000 YEARS BEFORE CHRIST.
It was an airspace violation. Every country should follow International Law. Turkey can't be an exception....
Love Greece 🇬🇷 from India 🇮🇳 🇬🇷 🤝🇮🇳
Much love and respect from Greece to India too..Hellas and India are allies with a great future ahead!! 🇬🇷🇬🇷🇬🇷🙏🙏🇮🇳🇮🇳🇮🇳
Ha ha, greece dont like india, they just love themselves and their orthodox brohters
Love Greece from India
Love India from Greece
yee Indian love because they also have Mirages and a F16 is shoot down, watching this story, seems like greek pilot was stupid and he accidently fired while F16 were stupid playing with something with gun, well indians you will not get this stupid things happening here, if you cross you will met with armed F16 that will kick you ass
I love Greece and GREECE-2 Movie! 😁😁😁😁😁 Love our Mirage 2000H too! Love from Trichy, India 🇮🇳
Never fail to impress. I only have been subscribed for a week, and your videos are keeping me entertained and educated while I have to do my long hours of duty and training in the Marine Corps. Thank you and keep them coming!
Semper Fi
Thank you for watching and commenting! I hope you have a very successful career in the Marines!
You are missing a lot of information man ! There are very interesting details on a British magazine . It was no ordinary dogfight and the pilot was definitely not a Turkish pilot . It became known who he was
@@konstantinosmanolis1910 I read the story of how he was supposedly Israeli. But that seemed a bit too much for my taste. I stuck to what made sense to me.
@@showtime112 if you watch his small interview after he was shot down you will understand a lot of things
Most of the dogfights are violent and difficult (As they can be in a "not war" situation). There are real video footage of this and there had been tragic events several times.
Thank your for your educational information on specific aspects of events that are relevant in recent history, Your work is excellent in every detail!
Showtime112, I salute you sir! Another great video. DCS is a great platform but you have taken it to the next level. I love the re-enactments of historic aerial engagements that you create. Not only are the visuals and editing great but it’s also a history lesson to boot. I agree with other commenters and think you’re onto something big with your content. Keep up the amazing work! 👍🏽
Thank you for your very positive comment! I might also tell you how I almost abandoned this particular story in the middle of it. In DCS replay track works very badly. Often it breaks down and you get different outcomes from what you played. But it varies from module to module. With the Mirage 2000 it ALWAYS breaks. I literally tried about 20 times. Eventually, I recorded the cockpit directly and only used externals for the beginning, while it was still good. That's why this video is a little simpler and there are fewer camera angles than usually 😁
@@showtime112 Well I’m glad you persisted! I think it was superb, from the music down to the analysis at the end. As you said all modules in DCS have their idiosyncrasies but you have managed to make it work regardless of the module. As a content producer, you are aware of how things can be improved but for us, the audience, you are one of the masters creating another masterpiece. It is my hope that I’m the fullness of time you will be able to re-enact every major aerial engagement. I have so much respect for DCS content creators, I can see from your videos that it’s not easy and is time consuming, so thanks again for not giving up!
@@kadose Well, with support like that, who wouldn't do well? 😁
@@showtime112 I’m sure you also have the support of the whole DCS online community. Keep up the good work 👍🏽
How does this channel only have 11k subscribers? He’s fair and balanced and reports only facts.
Thanks for this comment, you are clearly my target audience! However, 11K is not bad at all 😁 Also, fair, balanced and factual is not everybody's cup of tea. There's a lot of 'you are either with us, or against us' kind of comments.
@@showtime112 11k isn’t bad your correct, I hope your channel continues to grow sir! In todays media environment it’s refreshing to see some people still can stick to just facts. I wish the best of luck and will continue to watch your videos!
Falkland islands are so far away from England and so close to Argentina but this doesn’t make them Argentinian territory. That explains why the British defended them. Maybe this example is good enough to understand why a country like Greece which exists over 4000 years defends its territory…
Perhaps I wasn't very clear. The fact that some Greek islands are close to Turkey doesn't mean they should be Turkish. It just means that it's a very tight space where some overlapping can happen. Such situation requires two friendly nations to work well. Not the case here.
@@showtime112 Let me help you...Turkey does not recognize Greek Sovereignty, calls for independent Western Thrace, refuses to recognize Southern Cyprus, while occupying the impoverished North. Turkey questions the legitimacy of many larger Greek islands, a wet dream it calls Blue Homeland.. Turkey demands immediate demilitarization of Greek Islands (Turkey has 100k amphibious troops on its western shore), claims Crete is a Turkish island, and was waiting for Greece to sit down and negotiate a land and sea surrender(sponsored by Germany)...Who is the friendly nation here my friend? Do some reading before choosing a side .. ..MOLON LABE to the Barbarians of Turkey.. Any Questions???
@@arisdelis1 We have no such purpose
@@arisdelis1 Do you in Greece believe Turks claim Crete is a Turkish island? Seriously?
@@unitedcolorsofmydick Do you want me to foward you a picture of this map??Look up the Blue Homeland aka Mavi Vatan.
Well done, another A+!
Thank you for your support!
I know exactly what happened that day. Lieutenant Grivas had not received an order to shut down the F-16. He was ordered to intercept the Turkish F 16s and escort them back to the Turkish airspace in accordance with international rules of conduct. Captain Erdogan refused to obey these instructions and tried to turn the Mirage into a dogfight. Lieutenant Grivas already had the F16 in the viewfinder and Captain Erdogan still refused to obey the instructions. Instead he managed to break out and tried to sit behind the Mirage at 6 o'clock. However, he did not succeed and Lieutenant Grivas shot the jet down with an R.550 Magic II in self-defense after an aggressive air combat maneuver. As a result, Lieutenant Grivas was suspended from the Greek Air Force, which was a shame for the politicians.
Thanks for contributing these details.
Grivas was not suspended from the airforce, he became an instructor in one of the 2 training sqs that oparate the t6 Texan ll aircraft
@@NewDawnReaper Another viewer said the same thing so this now looks more probable.
@@showtime112 Well, he was probably suspended for a WHILE... then he got back It was a long time ago anyway.
Damn those phantoms look so good... If I remember correctly some e-aerobatics team have a closed mod of it.
There's a VSN mod for it. It is flyable but with F-15 cockpit I think. Also, the model is kinda low polygon for modern standards.
Have to say, your channel is slowly getting better and bigger. With a little more, you could be one of the major DCS and Flightsim KZheadrs. Keep up the good work. 👍🏻
Wow, thanks! I'm doing my best and the rest is up to the viewers 😁
@@showtime112 čekamo da napraviš neki video sa gledateljima :))))))
@@domovinivjerni evo ja se javljam kao dobrovoljac :) ako treba neko da leti F-16, KA-50 ili FC3 avione, tu sam :D
@@MarkoDanojevic javljam mu se i ja... imam MiG-29 ;)
@@domovinivjerni MiG-29? Tu bi se možda mogla izvesti Rodriguezovo prvo obaranje (tj. maneuver kill) u Pustinjskoj oluji.
Another gem of a presentation Showtime !
Thank you, I appreciate this comment!
Long live greece and Greek airforce 🇬🇷🇬🇷🇬🇷
Turk Hava Kuvvetleri!!
@@lsnows Rafalef3r meteor🇬🇷🇬🇷R.I.P destroy Turkish Airforce 🇬🇷🇬🇷🇬🇷 #Hellenicairforce #Rafalef3r #F16V🇬🇷
4:11 it was not an accidental collision. The Turkish pilot tried to hit the cockpit canopy of the Greek plane with his wing and that's why the Greek pilot was killed instantly. Or he never knew the Greek aircraft was there and in his panic he tried to make a hard turn with the same result.
the turkish pilot learned this technique from hot shots movie.
@@throkhan And F16D ( two Seater) in this video is not a training variant. İt is a air to air plane which is fully loaded with air to air missles and Its CFT is not a CFT its a big air to air missle. Greek pilot was a true war hero.
@@throkhan emulated by a CCPpilot over the sea south of sina, who didn't come back to tell it as it was.
That’s a ridiculous claim , no pilot would risk a expensive plain ..
@@firattekeli6145 That is correct,if we make some logical thoughts we have the conclusion that the Turkish invader had overestimated his ability and killed without purpose the Greek pilot (knowone would put his life in that danger) unfortunately the lack of training and proffesionalism from his side cost a life in the wrong side. In contrary the other Greek pilot kept his calm hardly and the missiles didn't left from the wings of F-16.
I really enjoy these historical reenactments with the music of the place and time to establish where and when we are . You mentioned that you don't have a HUD recording of the actual event so you are being creative to reproduce it . That made me think, is it possible to use the FLIGHT DATA RECORD of real events to run DCS? Imagine running the Concord crash or the Canary islands tragedy or any other incident which was recorded. Then we could analyse the incident like never before . Developers could sell different historical incidents! That could be interesting. Thanks.
Thanks for a positive comment. As far as your question, I'm not aware that something like that is possible. I suppose that could be developed for it but only for high fidelity modules simulated in DCS.
I have been waiting for this video thank you
I hope you are happy with it 😁 Thanks for commenting!
Mortal enemies for centuries and unfortunate. Both important Allies and friends. Nothing but respect and love for both your countries people, rich cultures and contributions to the world.
What is the... "culture" of Turkey that you mention? What is their contribution to the world? If you mean the genocides and the massacres then you are right: Turkey has a long criminal record no other country has...
@@jaydefuca4153 the culture of common people not the chaos,lies, and wars started by governments and politicians who not fair and righteous. Peace must be between the common folk of all nations of all nations who share this world. That is not to be found in hands of corrupt politicians and governments who only serve to keep people apart. Peace,compassion and equality must come first between all common folk like ourselves, so that the injustices you mention do not happen.
You forgot to mention that the armed Turkish f16 Was trying to go behind the Greek mirage for several minutes. That was a threat and threats need to be stopped...
Thats how dogfight work you try get your opponents 6 he does this as well. But that is not mean you have to shoot when you get your opponents 6
@@majorduckboi you thing is a video games the hole turkey the going yo greek teratory
@@johnzoumpoulidis3279 sure grandpa lets get you to bed
@@majorduckboi u will never be Greeks....ho ho ho
@@Passajero i didnt say anything about we are greeks. There are no such thing in modern world as pure races we are all somewhat mixed
This is like an Real Footage! Awesome! Clouds,Sun,Sea, reflections etc are OUTSTANDING! I love Greece and GREECE-2 Movie! 😆😆😆😆😆 I love my country's Mirage -2000H too! Love from India 🇮🇳
Thanks for this presentation. Historical for the Aviaton Community.
And thank you for your support in views and comments! It is very helpful to the channel!
@@showtime112t is said that there was an incident between TUAF and HAF over Aegean sea during Cyprus conflict in 1974. Both sides have different claims as usual. If you can dig up some trustable info, that might make a good historical video as your other great works. For your information, greetings…
@@bugragultek4349 There were a couple of incidents but they involve F-102 and sadly, we don't have this airplane in any of the platforms I use. Maybe someday.
I'm Turkish, and despite all the banter and airspace violations we got going on both sides, I hope we never fight our neighbors in any serious capacity. Russia's invasion of Ukraine was a slap back to reality for me in that regard. Great video as always Showtime112!
Thank you for that very reasonable feedback!
Thumbs up from a Greek.
I agree my brother. May our two countries always be at peace.
Yes , piece is all we want. But if Turkey invade to Greece islands that will be the end of this game..
@@dimitrimendrinos2049 I'm Turkish too, I have Greek friends and I love Greek people, but I wish you didn't defend this Greek pilot who brought both countries to the brink of war bro :/
Another great vid keep up the good work
Appreciate it!
Have you done a segment on the shoot-down of flight KAL 007, or would that be outside the subject matter treated on your channel?
It could be interesting to do. However, it was Su-15 that was used by the Soviets there. We don't have it in DCS.
To be more precisely it was the Russian Su-15 Military Pilot Gennady Osipovich who shot down the KAL 747 he was also interviewed on German TV about shooting down the KAL 007 As far I remember When asked if he regrets it he said no because he was following orders.
@@jamesmorgan2465 A true child of a totalitarian regime!
@@showtime112 He was following orders indeed. According to "May DaycAir disaster" also followed all the intrnational procedures. This is his excuse other he would killed himself. Korean jumbo was 150 kilometers within USSR. In contrary flight 655 wasn't in hostile territory but shot down by Vinccenes.
Your videos are awesome! What GPU are you using?
Thanks! I use Sapphire Pulse RX580 4GB. Not exactly state of the art, but currently it's not a great time for an upgrade with these prices 😁
As usual. 4 Turkish jets intercepted by 2 Greek jets. In this case 1 Turkish jet shot down. That's why turkey is nervous. Thank God turkey has erdogan. He has done more for Greece than anyone
I second the Erdogan thing.
Greeks running their mouth a little too much. I thought you would learn from the Russians, or from the Armenians, or from the Syrians, or from the Libyans... Apparently you want to be a star of our show too. Well don't worry, it will happen eventually. Turkey is out for blood, ain't no stopping from now on.
😝😝😝😝
I really like this video, excellent piece of work!
Thanks, I am happy to hear it.
Lt Grivas after this incident trasfered to Kalamata trainning wing and he was a T-6 Texan II flight instructor in 2002 when i had my flight trainning
That is the most precise info I heard so far. Thanks!
Another interesting incident. Awesome.
Thanks for yet another positive comment!
Εvery country that respects its sovereign rights must do just that to any intruder, who intends to encroach on or challenge your sovereignty. Unfortunately, we only carry out interceptions and this gives the opponent the chance to continue its illegal actions. With Rafale F3R, we hope that will change soon. Risky games also have risky endings. Glory to the HAF
Sizi rafale kurtarmaz çok büyütmeyin rafale de vurulur düşürülür
Egemenlik hakkı diyorsun ama senin olmayan adaları işgal ediyorsun bunların hesabını vereceksiniz ya Uluslararası mahkemede yada savaş meydaninda
HOLY GREECE DESTROY THE INFIDEL!!!
Do you record these videos on a server or on single player? For some reason the tracks while playing with Razbam modules don't work and deviate from the actual actions
In single player. As for Razbam, Mirage 2000 replay track never works. I tried about 20 times. MiG-19 seems to work a little better (i.i. at least sometimes).
@@showtime112 And I was thinking I was going crazy lol. Thanks for the reply man!
God bless Greece 🇬🇷
1996 good times, pure magic 😉
Pure Matra Magic II ...LOL!
Your hard work is commendable 👍
I'm glad you think so!
the straight profile (stance) of the air force variant of the F-4E Phantom II (Block 42+) multi role interdictor strike fighter featuring a 25 MM GAU-12/U 6-barrel rotary gun built into the forward lower fuselage starboard side . . . is the best variant by far . . .
82ND AIRBORNE Watching your cartoons in 1080p is freekin bad ass!! YEEEHAW!!
Well, you certainly seem very enthusiastic about it 😁
@@showtime112 82ND AIRBORNE Enthusiastic you say?? Well of Course my Horse!! ( Mexican Tv lingo )
Good job Greece.
There are many in the West who agree with you 😁
@@showtime112 Namaste from SE, I enjoy your channel. Keep it rolling m8.
Great channel!
Thank you!
The difference is that the Greek side say 12 miles from the islands which is the correct and the turkish side say that is 6 miles.
Not correct. Turkey does not comply to the 12 zone and doesn't have to.
What Greece or Turkey says is irrelevant at the end of the day. What international law says is the measure. And I do believe according to international law 12 miles is legitimate right of Greece.
@@christospapantonakis5959 so why your wait. Just try it.
@@umitkaptan8470 as a totally legitimate right when it will be decided by our government, rest assured it will not be tried, it will be done.
@@christospapantonakis5959 No. Our existing international agreement between Turkey and Greece is 6 miles but Greece wants to change and expend it to 12 miles. Turkey doesn't accept it because by expending 12 miles Greece blocks the international waters that Turkey uses now. You have to the right to sing songs but this doesn't mean that you can sing songs in the middle of the night and wake me up.
Love this content
It's so nice to hear! Thanks for your support!
I didn't see f-16's take off in the beginning of the video but I did see an couple of F-4 Phantoms, was there an error in the description? Great video though, thanks for sharing.
The Phantoms were the reason why Mirages took of in the first place. They were supposed to intercept the Phantoms but then the F-16s came to meet them.
@@showtime112 Thank you very much for that information, I stand corrected.
@@joedejesus6363 There was another similar comment form a viewer who missed that.
In fact it was an RF-4 flying reccee mission arround Greek islands and the F16 were providing cover. THK tries to fly recee missions on 6nm and not 10nm as declared by Greece, and in this 4nm zone the interceptions happen.
The NFL once had a superstar player called «Primetime». Now KZhead has it's own version video superstar: Showtime 112 !
That's flattering 😁 Thanks!
Love and support Greece from Romania orthodox brothers
Before writing about the incident, a small briefing about Turkey's policy for the last 50 years against Greece and other of its neighboring countries is necessary for the non familiar of the south eastern Mediterranean sea. Turkey is a revisionist regime that will try to erase or rewrite history, bypass agreements and interpret international law as it suits her. Stuck in the past of the ottoman empire, modern Turkey treats its neighbors as previous conquest that block her from accessing the rich in oil and gas, sea and land. Turkey threatens Greece with war if Greece tries to drill for oil in the Aegean sea. This is unheard of, to be forced not to have control over your exclusive economic zone by another country and of course is against the law of the sea. Greece's stance over the Turkish imperialistic threats over half a century is to keep a low tone in the matter and to not provoke any spasmodic response. About the 1996 incident, I have a few things to add. Turkey during the 70s, out of the blue, decided that Greece's FIR and SAR region should extend no more to the east than the 25th meridian that splits the Aegean sea in half. After that, Turkish fighter jets started flying sorties by the thousands per year inside Athens FIR without filing flight plans or calling the Hellenic aviation authority in the radio during their flights and at some point, started to violate Greek national airspace and even overflown Greek islands with armed planes! This is a very dangerous practice especially with civilian air traffic besides everything else. As in any other country, and according to ICAO rules, Greece is obligated to scramble alert fighter jets to intercept these illegal intrusions, and of course to protect national soil. In 1974, during the Turkish invasion of Cyprus, two Turkish F-102As fired AIM-4 falcon missiles against a pair of Greek F-5As that were scrambled to intercept them inside Athens FIR. The Greek fighters responded by shooting down one F-102 with AIM-9B and forcing the other one to crash. Something similar happened in 1996, cause Greeks will never pull the trigger first. The version of the incident I believe as the truth has the 4 Turkish Phantoms flying a simulated attack against the Greek island of Skyros under the cover of 2 armed with air to air missiles F-16s of 192 squadron. This squadron, under the plans of the deep Turkish state or Operation Balyoz (Sledgehammer) specifically, had special training among other TUAF squadrons, to be extra aggressive and to provoke Greek fighters. The F-16 that collided and murdered a Greek F-16 pilot 10 years later, in 2006, was from 192 squadron as well. When the Greek Mirage 2000s tried to intercept the fleeing F-4s, the pair of the Turkish F-16s interfered and at some point, the F-16D of the flight opened fire with it's 20mm cannon against the Greek jets either as a warning or missed on a kill shot. The Mirages observing the tracers fired upon them, responded by shooting down the threat with an R.550 Magic II, as any other pilot would have done. Greek pilots are highly professional and are considered among the top in NATO, so I do not think that this was an accident. This was a plan of the Turkish deep state that went not exactly as it was expected by it's designers. Nevertheless, Turkey tried to capitalize on this incident years later, by sponsoring a bogus article in a shadowy short lived Greek magazine that provided fake pictures of a killmark on a Greek Mirage and the supposed name of the Greek pilot responsible for the shooting. Claims in Turkish regime owned media wrote about a law suit against the Greek pilot from the family of the dead Turkish pilot in the European Court of Human Rights, that never happened. The fake ECHR law suit disappeared shortly after, as the magazine that posted the article. In 1974, 1996 and 2006, Turkey tried to provoke Greece by using TUAF as a means to gain the upper hand and justify her moves in further plans. Greece did not take the bait and proved to be a cool headed pylon of stability in the area. What were the exact Turkish plans, I guess we will never know, and I thank the Hellenic Air Force for that.
Thanks for adding that view.
@@showtime112 You are welcome.
The photo of the killmark is not fake. I know it because the photographer is familiar to me.
Very interesting comment Talon Crown 👍
It's remarkable that both countries are NATO and have such an intense dislike with one another. That would be like Denmark and Norway getting into it over some stuff that happened during the Viking era. Could it have been an accidental launch? Its very possible. But why was his finger on the trigger? I would like to know what happened to the career of the Greek pilot who pulled the trigger. That might be an indicator of whether it was accidental or not. Great video!
Personally i think it was revenge for an incident at Imia (mentioned at the start of the vid), that a navy helicopter of ours crashed with all crew kia. But It is largely speculated that it was shot down by TR, but both sides deny it (as to not risk tension). So our Airforce might have given the shootdown order as a message that we can still "bite" So idk, it is (obviously) highly classified, so we can only guess
As for the finger on the trigger, some airplanes have 'simulation' mode. When in that mode, you can press the trigger and the system records if all of your launch parameters were correct. If yes, this counts as a proper 'kill' in training. Now, the version of Mirage 2000 we have in DCS doesn't have the 'simulation' position, just arm and safe. In one of the articles I found that he was holding the trigger too long. I couldn't find anything more about Lt Grivas or what happened to him later. Maybe some of Greek viewers knows more. Thanks for the comment!
That is a possibility. Although, a very risky one.
@@im2noob4bronze - Thanks for the extra insight. There is always a cause and effect root behind these things.
There are many theories, one is that the F16 was launching flares so the pursuit fighter will ingest one and be damaged. In these dogfights the logic is everything is allowed except using weapons, so the Mirage pilot thought the flare was a missile launch against his wingman and proceeded with the shooting down. Bear in mind that this was 1996 and thensions where very hign due to Imia crisis. Also we sah THK shooting down the Russian Su-24 for straying in their airspace for ...6seconds .... so when you are tickling the dragons tail accidents happen.
I love the music that you use in your videos
Thanks, it's nice to hear.
Dobar video 👍
Hvala na pozitivnom komentaru!
Τροφή για τα ψάρια. Θα χορτάσουν μια χαρά.
Love the Jet sound, wind sound
Thanks for commenting!
Great video again ST112! I think I'd have to agree on the armed switch idea. I know these guys are highly trained but these weapon systems are so complex. It would be interesting to see what outcome there would be between a block 51 Viper and a Mirage 2000 each with experienced Turkish and Hellenic pilots with the most modern missiles in their inventories.
Thanks for commenting! Such a scenario would be interesting but reality always adds in a lot more factors.
The convention defines territorial water claims up to 12nm - there are no exceptions to this and if Greeks want to close Turkey off they can do so legally. Greeks to play nice picked 6nm - similar to UK in Gibraltar. They have the right to extend it as much as they like up to 12nm. They picked air space at 10nm - which is again within their right. In short Turkey is daily infringing on Greeks territory & acting illegally as per convention it signed.
@@SubutEyleTanrim according to the Lausanne treaty, Turkey has no jurisdiction on any Aegean islands further than 3nm off her coast. Everything else in your post is nonsense
@@SubutEyleTanrim nonsense. You have no idea. Read the treaty again. And I’ m talking about ownership not territorial waters or continental self. You are confused
@@SubutEyleTanrim You seem to be writing a lot and you also seem very confident that Turkey is right. But let's cut to the chase and let me prove to you who is wrong and who is right. Greece officially proposed to Turkey that they take these matters all together to the International Court where both will present their cases and the court will decide who is wrong and who is right. Whatever the decision of the court is both parties will have to abide and agree to it. Greece Proposed Turkey Denied Nothing more to be said. Also, Turkey is the only country in the world that has not signed the Sea Treaty about the Law of the Sea. That enables Turkey to act like pirates whenever they want and abide by the law of the sea when they choose because everyone else has signed it. Anyway, your wall of text means nothing. Turkey does not have the confidence to take the matter to court like civilized countries do because it knows it will lose.
@@LinkSoul64 No proposal accepted. There is a treaty signed almost 100 years ago. It states clearly that it can not be more than 3 miles so that there is no argument neither no proposal. It is a closed case, not open to any proposal or discussions. If you want to open a new case, we can propose you for 0 nautical miles...
@@hasankilic9825 please do yourself a favor, search for 'Treaty of Lausanne document archive' and read the original text of the treaty. The only place mentioning the phrase 'three miles' is in ARTICLE 12 stating that any island LESS than three miles from the Turkish coast belongs to Turkey UNLESS stated otherwise within the treaty. Search through the entire treaty and there is no mentioning about the range of territorial waters or anything else, the treaty mainly focuses on ownership.
Another great video. Once more, it will be many more years before we will know the truth about what really happened, if we ever do. And ST112 was that a tongue-in-cheek comment about the 2 seater F-16s? 😂
Thanks! As for the two-seaters F-16, the first one to score an AMRAAM hit was a two-seater, the one shot down hear was a two-seater and the Pakistani F-16 that possibly shot down an Indian Su-30 - two-seater. That's funny :)
Wow, its really awesome….
Thanks a lot 😊
Just WOW!
I hope that means you like the video 😁
God bless the greeks .my prayers are all.greeks
yes if Turkey goes to war god bless the greeks because they will need it
@@fatihnalcakar5004 don't miss "saitan asker"🇬🇷 is yours daddy. The god of war is Greek.
Greece gdp: 189 billion. Turkey gdp: 720 billion
@@fraooqkhan2293 Benito? Is that you?
Yunanlar her zaman zavallı her zaman namert
Jeli Eagle Dynamicsu u planu ubacit neke module koji su dvosjedi osim F-14? Recimo... MiG-29UB, MiG-21UM, pravi F-4 Phantom ili dvosjed varijante nekih drugih aviona. Čekamo i Eurofighter. Samo su ostavili trailer pa su začkomili...
Ako računaš helikoptere, izbacili su Mi-24 a uskoro će Apache. Što se tiče trenažnih verzija borbenih aviona, neki dan je izišao intervju sa Aergesom koji razvija Mirage F1. Ako sam dobro shvatio, bit će dostupna i dvosjedna verzija. Razbam razvija F-15E koji će se moći u multiplayeru igrati kao dvosjed ali neće imati AI drugog člana posade. Heatblur razvija A-6, vjerojatno će biti neki AI slično kao F-14. Phantom nije potvrđen. Nadam se da će ga krajem godine najaviti kao što su prošle najavili Apache. A što se tiče Eurofightera, True Grit se udružio sa Heatblurom i rade na Eurofighteru. Nedavno je bio intervju na jednom podcastu o tome.
@@showtime112 ja koji bi volio imat MiG-21, SU-27, Eurofighter (kad izađe), MiG-23 (ako izađe), Mi-8, Mirage 2000... Moj novčanik koji se smije dok me sluša: 🤣🤣🤣
@@domovinivjerni To je kao meme s riječima? 😁
big love and support greece from saudi arabia 🇸🇦❤️🇬🇷
are u muslim?
I don't care about you i m a muslim i love turkie 🇹🇷 from Somalia 🇸🇴
@@ismaaciilcusmaanbashiirism2347 you are just a fanatic
That Greek pilot deserves a medal. Go Greece Go !!!
No he got kicked out of air force for lacking trigger discipline and firing an actual missile in a simulated dogfight
From 3.000BC the hall area was Greek, (Greece + Minor Asia + some part of Middle East). Thats why Alexander the Great began the operations to free these territories from Persian occupation. From 330AC to 1453AC the region was Greek and part of the Byzantine Empire for 1123 years. The Seltzuk Turks from 1071 (Mantzikert battle), as a nomadic population who are, started invading the Byzantine Empire with the known results. Nowdays we see the same, Turkish soldiers invading Syria, Lebanon, Georgia, Cyprus, Greece etc. Its most likely Turkey will not exist from 2023 and further as they spread their forces to create again the Ottoman Empire...
Anatolia was neither Turkic nor Hellenic in the first. The alexander conquered it with sword and blood that's why it was Hellenised. Greeks are from Greece and the anatolia is not Greece. It was an invasion not be heroism. Then Rome was fallen, the byzantine was fallen And the Selchuks Turkmens won and migrated from west-central Asia to Anatolia. It was like German or Slav migration to the west. It's a sociological truth, not more. Being nationalist and imagining big dreams can be dangerous like the 1920 experiences.
@@ilker2534 Anatolia Was Greek and the Greek names of the kingdoms or cities-states was Greek too. Thrace Bithynia Paphlagonia Aeloia Phrygia Galatia Pontus Armenia Urartu Assyria Cilicia Pamphylia Lycia Pisidia Lycaonia Caria Mysia Ionia Lydia Troy... Even the name Anatolia is from the Greek name Ανατολή=anatoli meaning "east". Where ever you dig the land in Turkey you find Greek ancient ruins. That's a fact. The truth that everyone one the planet knows.
@@VassilisKostoulas Greek was the dominant language to name territories in a term in this land and western people have referenced with it that why it is so common. But some of these names were given after the Hellenisation of Anatolia. And the rest of them(Urartu, Assyria Armenia, etc.) are not related to Greek culture. Colonization of the western coast and Hellenisation the Anatolia with a sword doesn't make you an inhabitant of Anatolia. On the other hand, the ancient greek legacy is unquestionable in Anatolia. But Dont play to be the first owner. You had came from Greece to this land and came back again in 1923. That's all.
@@ilker2534 1071ac Turks came to that area. That's the fact. Let's see what happen till 2023. The events speak by itself Armenians, Kurds, Cypriots, Pontus and nowadays Lebanon, Syria suffered and suffering from Turkish "foreign policies". At least Greeks we have something to say about our civilization. Turkish history is better to name it like a criminal records. Sorry to say that. I know that simple Turkish people are better than the political criminals that rule the world. I visited twice Turkey, I love your people, but history is history.
@@VassilisKostoulas Criminals would also apply to the Cyprus crisis when a coup masterminded by elements Greeks and Cypriots tried to turn it into a Greek Island which fanned the fire of war.Instead of lamenting the past better concentrate on the present and cooperation, after all without that Greece would be bankrupt today.Bad politicians come and go the people stay.
If the shootdown was deliberate or not will probably still remain in dispute. However, there is a picture that was posted immediately after the incident that shows the Mirage 2000 that was reportedly involved in the incident had a Turkish flag painted under the windscreen of the jet. The Greek commanders ordered that it be removed shortly afterward so as to not inflame the situation with the Turks further
Nice
Thanks for commenting!
The cockpit displays are incorrect. The close-combat missile can be launched off-boresight.
I haven't really played the Mirage much. As far as I can see, the developer Razbam has changed the way things work on it several times. What details are correct, I'm not sure. I haven't even bought the module because replay track doesn't work with it and that makes it very hard to use for making videos.
For such occasions , I wish my country eventually withdraw from NATO, they offer no guaranty for our security just like in 1974, its all about keeping us customers for buying their weapons Greece recognises 12 nautical miles and half distance to the east between turkish mainland shores and Greek estern island shores
What happened in 1974. Cyprus? Greece having being ruled colonel fascists organised a military coup d'etat to annex the Cyprus to Greece. Turks cut the insland into two and share it between Turks and Greeks. Don't you think that it was fair? Do we have to accept you military junda's decision in Athens? Of course no.
Victorious Hellenic Air Force ! Top class pro pilots. Eagles. Turk shot first n missed. Hence Lt. Grivas defended and shot him down. Video needs correction.
also a type of aircraft that greece had but turkey is not available were the bombers a 7 corsair
Yes, that's true. But it's also American so I didn't mention it specifically.
Mirage vx viper 🙂👍i like that match-up!
They are quite well matched and any encounter would depend mostly on pilots and initial advantages.
@Showtime112 I have watched all your videos and they are amazing.. Could you please make a new one with the interception of Serbian MiG-29 by Dutch F-16AM with AMRAAM at the NATO bombing, 1999?
I'm very glad that you liked the videos, thank you for that1 As for the Dutch F-16 kill, it is on my to do list. I don't have much details on it, I have to do some research first.
Zanima me mišljenje autora, u kolikoj meri bi se mogao suprotstaviti mig-29 sm rafalu van vizuelnog dometa?
A čuj, realno MiG ima šanse samo ako se približi Rafaleu. Rafale ima moderniji radar i manji radarski odraz. Plus navodno fenomenalan sistem za elektronsko ometanje. Još pogotovo ako staviš i Meteor raketu na njega......
@@showtime112 samo vidi šta se desilo sa srpskim migovima treci dan NATO agresije kad su F16 ice ispalili BVR rakete Amraam… nisu imali nikakve sanše …
Why on rear view mirrors we cant see your room?
I tried it before but it's a frame rate killer 😁😁😁
Bob, you're right, I was watching and did not vomited..
👏👏👏
Hvala još jednom ,T!
It would be an accident if the dogfight took place in FIR borders. Turkish pilot rescued in the middle of the Aegean Sea. Tens of miles deep in Greek FIR....
@kuvikina Of course not, Turkish troll. But you must have permission from the State to enter . Otherwise you are considered as a threat.
@kuvikina I have already regret for answering you. Such a waste of time.
@kuvikina u will never be Greek....:-)
@kuvikina mommy mommy why don't we look like Mongols anymore?
It was an airspace violation. It's happening almost every day for years now.
Wow!👍👍👍
Thank you! 👍
@@showtime112 No problem!😎👍 Here in my country, in Israel, I show your videos to a lot of my friends, and they really appreciate your work! Keep doing bro!❤️💪
@@worldwideanalysis5636 I'm glad to hear it. More stuff coming up!
Q:What hotas do you use?
Thrustmaster T16000m
What exactly happened is unknown but one thing is for sure, the Turkish fighter tried something and got smoked.
In the 90's (I don't remember the year ) a Turkish Phantom crushed to the sea due to mechanical failure. The pilots ejected but only the one survived and rescued by greek helicopter. His name is Yildirim. It is not rare accidents happen. Do you have the statement of turk official who confirmed the shot down as you claim?
The pilot himself confirmed that the Greel jet launched a missile, and that Turkey kept it a secret because of the shame. He came clean 8 years later.
@@bugrayuksel1129 The incident in which I refer was accident not shoot down.
@@antimimoniakos You were trying to say that this incident may as well been an accident which is not true according to the pilot that survived the incident. He clearly stated that they were hit by a missile, and that Turkish officials did not come clean about it because they were too ashamed, so he stepped up and came clean instead. Greeks always make fun of how the Turkish pilots engage the Greek pilots in SIM mode calling our pilots cowards when in reality our pilots are being proffessionals. We all know that if a war broke out it wouldn't end well for you, we are doing you a solid good and yet you guys are still being the hostile ones and blaming us for being the hostile ones. Nevertheless, I hope Greek officials realize the seriousness of the situation and the weight difference between two countries, and instead of getting other countries involved in our problems, try to use the channels of negotiation.
@@bugrayuksel1129 Please post a video with his statement. Otherwise it would be fake news. As far for who is hostile take a look to your so called "blue Turkey" which claimes 14 greek islands as turkish. Turkish air force suffers from the outcome of 2016 coup when Erdogan put in jail many skilled and experienced pilots. I wish we not be in position to find out which plots are better because this means war. Please don't be hypocrite to threat first and then talking about negotiations. Turkey has the huge advantage to be ally to Germany which drives Greece to back up from their rights.
@@bugrayuksel1129 I didn't mention the claims of Turkey in Afghanistan and eastern Mediterranean who reach Crete island with Turkey-Libya agreement. Plus the Ormskirk Reissue acting like pirate ship.
this dogfight is casual between two natp cpuntries
Yep, it happens frequently.
... The tone, tenor, and tempo of the narrator gets an "A".
Wow, thanks!
Hellenic Air Force have most air to air and air to ground kills against NATO fighters. On the eighth of October 1996, seven months after the escalation of the Imia/Kardak crisis, a Greek Mirage 2000 reportedly fired an R.550 Magic II missile and shot down a Turkish F-16D over the Aegean Sea near Chios island. In 2006 Greek and Turkish F-16 fighter planes collided in midair today in disputed airspace over the Aegean Sea. On 26 January 2015, an F-16 jet fighter of the Hellenic Air Force crashed into the flight line at Los Llanos Air Base in Albacete, Spain, killing 11 people: the two crew members and nine on the ground. Twenty-one others, all on the ground, were also injured. A total of five aircraft on the ground were damaged or destroyed, including two Italian AMXs, two French Alpha Jets, and one French Mirage 2000.
That music is right cacophony.
Some real Hatfields and McCoys bs...
Feuding usually doesn't make sense to outsiders.
What kind of music is that
There's no real genre to describe it. Some kind of oriental sounding stuff. Or at least how Westerners think oriental music sounds like 😁
..an F'100 shot down a B-52 in the 50's... with a Sidewinder... I'm sure there is more...
There are some more cases. Plus, I remember from one of the books about Desert Storm that one F-16 or F-18 pilot was sent home for accidentally launching a Sidewinder after bombs release two times in a row. Something about holding the button for too long but I can't remember the exact explanation. Those missiles didn't hid anybody but they could have easily.
Can you do a su57 vs rafale dogfight guns only video please?
This is really a Growling Sidewinder thing. It it happens in real life, I will reenact it :)
@@showtime112 K thanks for responding.👍
It seemed like a slow dogfight, not so intense.
That depends how you want to fight. For some aircraft, slow is the best. Others are better when they keep high speed and energy. But generally, it you watch some fighter pilot analysis (C.W. Lemoine for example), encounters between Greek and Turkish fighters are usually not as intense as real combat would be because the other guy is not really trying to kill you. This case is an exception.
Grivas saw the way!!
Troublesome waters those...
You can say that again :)
The starting was F-4
tanks
Can you make a video a bout the iraqi .merage f1 when it down Turkish airplane in 1981 or 1982 i think
Mirage F1 module is currently being developed by a Spanish company Aerges. When they release it, I plan to do some missions flown by Iraqi Mirages. The exact date is not yet known.
This happened in the time of Archbishop Makarios
Greece have 10 miles air territory and 6 miles territorial water. Turks claim both are 6 miles. After Imia (1996)Turks also claim some small Islands are Turkish so they fly over almost every day. Greece intercepts them every time. I don't know about this shot down I think is an urban legend. In 1992 Sialmas was in dogfight with Turkish F-16 and had vertigo Some years ago there was a video on KZhead.
Δεν είναι αστικός μύθος μην γράφεις ανακρίβειες
@@vassilispap1823 Αν δεις την πηγή που έβαλε ο showtime είναι ένα τούρκικο περιοδικό ... ή μάλλον βάλε εσύ τις πηγές που σε κάνουν να είσαι τόσο σίγουρος. Πρόσεξε, όχι οι μαγκιές των Τούρκων και η κόρη του πιλότου που είχαν σαν στοιχείο το περιοδικό. Επίσημα στοιχεία κι όχι μπούρδες.
1) This is NOT how things happened. Turkish F16D engaged and opened fire first against the M2000 using guns head on approach. F16D was indeed in a "training mission" that day but with objective of how to shoot down another opponent first, on site and surprise him like they had done a few months earlier by crashing on D.Iliaki's F16C and killing him...(But the Turkish pilot was not that proffessional at that incident and damaged his plane, too and eventually ejected). The Greek pilot responded, avoided F16's gun fire and got engaded in a dog fight. When it got behind the F16 it fired back a Magic 2 where it found its target. 2) When a fighter jet of a country flies ARMED over civil occupied/unoccupied islands of another country without declaring official flight plan/path to the country whose islands belong to, and do not respond to Air Traffic Controllers, they are considered "intruders" and inerceptor jets take off to identify the unknown dots on the Radar Screen without knowing their intentions and escort them back out of the area... This happens daily by the Turkey. 3) There are no "Grey" islands in Aegean Sea you stupid. All of them are occupied by Greeks thousands of years ago... Greeks where leaving there since begining of Civilization. Learn History and Geografy and find out where the Turks are coming from and how and when they found themselves in the neighbourhood... 4) The islands are millitirized with defencive armament because Turkey sustains "The 6th Army Devision" or "Aegean Division" which has one and only objective: To invade and occupy the Aegean Islands when Turkey judges it is in their interest to do so with minimum casualties! It is the only Army in Nato which sustains a full Army Division with offensive role against another NATO ally! It will not be the first time in their history that they will do that. They did it in 1974 with Cyprus which they invaded and they occupy illegally 40% of the island, they have done recently a few times by invading Syria. They claim "Peace" or silly reasons to justify these invasions but they never leave the occuppied areas. They would love the islands to be unprotected so it would make them an easy job for them.Unfortunately Greece have no other choice but to be ready and "Si vis pacem para bellum". 5) Greece is NOT looking to occupy or attack Turkey or any current Turkey territory or any of their neighboor countries, even the weak ones with no army. Turkey does want to do the opposite, though, occupy everybody and threat all the time everyone. Greeks would like to live in peace with their neighbours and progress.Unfortunately they have Turkey as their neighbour and not Belgium or Denmark! They will NEVER start a war against Turkey. But they will finish it if they have to...
No panic flares?
I don't know exactly if there were flares or not but based on available HUD tapes from some more recent clashes, I assumed there were none. As far as I can see, Turkish pilots didn't really expect the Mirage to launch missiles at them. Then again, there's the 'Turks fired first and the Greek pilot was acting in self-defense' theory.
"Invincible" my a**!
As a Turkish, i can confirm that the Greek pilot was great and shoot down our planes.(and sometimes we shoot them)
Thanks for the comment!
it does not matter if a Geek island is a half stone near Turkey ...the only thing matters is THE LAW , my dear friend . also we should ,could and is our right to have 12 miles ,as the Law of the Sea gives us the right to, but because of our loyalty to allies like U.S. we didn't all these years. as for the dogfights ....turkey should pay our pilots for free training those donks :)
@@SubutEyleTanrim Hellas has no Intention To declare war on 🇹🇷. But make no mistake we have every right to shoot down every Turkish plane that flies over our islands on purpose…
@@SubutEyleTanrim it is exactly like what i hear from your democratic fellow Bahtseli... :) it is exactly what i hear from your sultan talking about ancient Turkey :))) also the turkish symbol of two head eagle :::)))))))) it is exactly what tourists friends of mine from u.s ,canada, and europe listen from tourist guides calling Efesos ancient tuskey...::)))))) they still cry of laughing and so many other examples..... it exactly like your father kemal who buchered almost 2 million humans (((( it is exactly u were so lucky 1922 that the 3 big forces decided to keep alive turkey and they did not let us visit Ankara.....!!!! 1953 ,1964 the turkish goverment and its gangsters expelled ,stealing and destroying more than 220.000 greeks.... go and sign UNCLOS and then promise you we can talk ...maybe if u cut the bullshit and at last what the fuck big turkey afraid of small Greece ....? i wonder :)))) the 1821 revolution is still on that's what u afraid )))
Not because of the loyalty of Greece to the allies like U.S The main reason greece is a puppet state controlled by US and Germany, that is why they cann’t declare 12miles. The elder brothers do not let them No national policy for them
@@dansec3373 every body knows how villain the greece army in first world war, we know what they did in western anatolia Thousands of rapes, massacres one day they will pay for their crimes
@@SubutEyleTanrim Dude Spain's Marocco islands are tiny and un-inhabited hence has no eez there, however Tenerife islands have full EEZ oposite to African coast so your whole argument is invalid. Turkish propaganda and lies have made Turkish people believe all the BS comming out of idiotic ministers. en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Exclusive_economic_zone_of_Spain#/media/File:Zee_spain.png Bear in mind that most big nations have islands and all these islands have full EEZ, make it USA, UK, France, Spain, Portugal, etc. What Turkey asks about Kastelorizo is totally paranoid and no serious country can endorse such logic.
Good diving