How Money Conversations Differ Between The UK and Germany
Why is it that conversations around money and personal finance make many of us uncomfortable? Is there a cultural component to this equation? Is there a generational aspect to it? Given that most studies on the topic consist of asking people how they feel about discussing personal finance it's difficult to get any objective data on this topic.
In this video I give my own point of view as to why discussions around money often illicit a high degree of discomfort.
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About me:
I am a Brit (from England) who lives in Germany. After completing University in the UK I moved to China where I taught English for two years. I’ve learned a thing or two about cultural integration, language learning and everything else that goes with upping sticks and moving to a foreign country. I make videos about cultural, language and life and tend to pose a lot of questions. Join me on my exploration of life abroad.
#money #personalfinance #culturaldifferences
I never had a problem to talk about money, because I never had much. The reaction off my friends depends on how much money they make. The more money they earn, the more uncomfortable they seem to be with this topic. At least here in northern Germany where a lot of people deal with their wealth the "hanseatic" way. You don't show your money. But some of them are very generous and helpful, but don't want people with less money feel bad and they don't want to be judged because of their money. I think a lot of "rich" people here know, that they just were lucky and how much money you make has nothing to do with how diligent or hard working you are, and they know that most "poor" people are not lazy or less intelligent. It has more to do with the family and circumstances you were born to.
Interesting point about the more you have the more uncomfortable you become. I think that is the case if your friends and social circle remain the same. I guess if the increase of money brings you into different social circles you might change your attitudes and bahvious towards it.
@@britingermany Yes. We all went to school together and some became "rich" but some didn't.
@@Punki001thats exactly how it works with my friends. And Its very precious that you have these old friends. And if you are the rich you don t brag in front of the others.
Sure, as more distance you have to other, as more others have to think, "do we have to donate him a meal", "can we go to a more expensive restaurant together", Do we make you unconfortable when suggessting to go to cinema, maybe you cannot afford it. Many activities get complicated, if you are not in the same social layer. It's like meeting a blind guy. Should you offer help or not ? It's insecurity mainly.
@@holger_p Yeah, sometimes it is complicated. For both sides. But the better or deeper the friendship is, the less complicated it is.
Hi Benikon, and again I want to thank you for your differentiated views presented in a witty and eloquent way!✌️🍻 You remind me that I was taught from early childhood on to handle the topic of money discreetly. It was and is considered very rude to ask a person: "Wie viel verdienen Sie?" On the other hand many of us krauts talk quite a bit about that touchy topic - complaining how expensive things have become. The current inflation, of course, promotes this habit. I guess in some countries, particularly the USA, being rich is primarily associated with having achieved something and deserving one's wealth while here in Germany you're likely to think of carpetbaggers, exploitation and dirty business. This tendency seems to be deeply rooted in the collective consciousness probably having to do with two lost world wars and their aftermaths. No matter what your financial situation is right now - I wish everybody who reads what I have been trying to express a pleasant continuation of this Sunday! 🌈🌞🌻🍓🍻🍀😊
Thanks so much Torsten. Enjoy the sun today 🌞
Thank you, Benikon - even more I am enjoying the shadow.😉
you nailed it !
Talking about money is important, especially in the broader sense where a closer look brings up essential questions about the origins of money, money creation, debt traps, inflation, interest rates, the effect of compound interest, the banking System, taxation, lifespan of currencies, wealth shifts , wealth cycles and many more. - Things you were never told at school... for some reason.
That seems to be a cross cultural problem...
I guess that when I lived in Germany, I just knew that I felt more comfortable there than in England. More fool me for returning to the UK, which left to me being unable to return to Germany. Now that has changed somewhat and I am hoping to return, so you comparisons, are very insightful into helping realise what is is that I miss about Germany. It turns out that I have very ancient German ancestral DNA from the very city in which I used to live, and to which I still want to return.
Wow that is amazing. So maybe that’s why you feel so connected to it
Our daughter married a German (from Munich) and his parents seemed to us to be overly obsessed with the price of things, always counting pennies and trying to get something as cheaply as possible, even if the quality was less and even if it meant that someone who had worked very hard providing a service ended up being paid less for it. Behind her back they would make snide comments about the fact (in their view) she came from a wealthier background and so was careless with money. It was definitely something they focussed on, even though it was not always openly discussed.
It is definitely significant as it influences so many aspects of life!
I know these kinds of people…and I, too, am always confused about how obsessed such people are about money. Sometimes I think that maybe they talk so much about “little money” of everyday life (how much things cost, what bargain they struck), because they feel very uncomfortable about their personal wealth (or not-wealth) and would never talk about that…so their need to talk about money finds a way in becoming obsessed with money everywhere else. If you know what I mean. :)
@@teen-at-heart Interesting theory!
As a British expat in Munich, I’ve noticed people ask about the size our apartment and how much rent we pay. They then pause whilst they calculate that I must pay 25-35% of my income in rent…. I try not to share into these days.
🤣Yeah that's a sneaky way of trying to find out how much someone earns
That is so true.. greetings from Haidhausen
I realy appreciate, that you find always interesting new topics, whitch are not the most discussed in the news and in politics at the moment. Thanks.
Glad to hear it thanks for watching 🙏
Indeed, the topics you present are very often thought provoking, as are the comments from all viewers.
As a German teacher I used to warn my students about choosing money issues as a topic for small talk in Germany. However - recently they often reply by telling me that their GERMAN collegues come up to them after only a few days of knowing each other with quite blunt questions about income, rent etc. - at least, if they are in their thirties or younger... so, times they are changing, I guess... :)
I guess so😉
Depends on age I would think. Younger people are more open. To be fair, even now 40-50 are more talking, not about precise numbers but factors which narrow it down a lot. On the other hand I have very few insight in my parent‘s finance.
Interesting talk, thankyou; it's the "love of money that is the route of all evils" rather than just money per se😊
Like the man who holds the gun not the gun itself? 😉
@@britingermany Yes, a good analogy, the bit about money and evils is often misquoted, keep safe.
I was wondering whether to comment about that too. But don't forget it is the root, not the route of all evil in the scripture, in the book of Timothy.
Another great video and interesting subject. I admit I really struggled a long time because I had low paid jobs for many years. And it affected my self-confidence pretty much and there was always a feeling of guilt and shame so I secluded myself from friends and family. I know that's the wrong way to percieve this close connection of money and self worthiness but it happened. 🤷🏼♂️
Thank you for being so open and honest. You are definitely not alone in feeling those things. I think it's way more common that most of us appreciate
Interesting video as usual. I live in a rural area in Scotland and there are four houses in our settlement. Recently I had a huge pile of log splitting to do. I hired a machine and several neighbours took turns at the job. For hours on end we worked as a team. We made them cups of tea or coffee. If we'd offered money they would have thought that extremely weird.
Interesting! I can remember some of my first jobs (which I was paid for) were things like collecting eggs and helping with the hay but I suppose that’s different has I was a child back then
Growing up I was taught / indoctrinated that it was important to get /buy as much education as one possibly could, including learning crafts and other do-it-yourself kind of knowledge, because money can be taken away/lost but education not. Previous generations had lost so much through world wars and having to move and upheavels of all kinds. I actually enjoy doing with less, I enjoy saving, buying second hand AND also knowing that paying more for a quality item that costs more will save you money down the line. etc. It is a great feeling that I live in a society that will probably not let me fall through the cracks. Paying more taxes for that, and thus a more equal society, with less fear of getting robbed/mugged etc is worthwhile. I did not like being the "poor kid" of a divorced parent and tried to hide it at times. But it sure taught me resilience. I get angry when I hear of people squandering money and then turning to the state for a hand-out. I'm not sure how to control for things like that.
Sounds like you put your time to good use Connie. It's true thamany skills can't be bought
Again: I admire you as you’re able to put these important thoughts in casual, easy-to-digest sentences. The pics/vids are a perfect background. Greez from Hochtaunus to Frankfurt! 🥰
I worked on construction sites (as an electrician) most pats of my life. And I experienced one thing, on Monday morning there are an equal amount of lies of what someone is earning for a living and the amount of sex someone had during the weekend.....a tons of lies were flying around then. ;-)
😂😂that is a great point
Very funny😂
I know somebody who works in the Europen Patent office in Munich. According to her she and others who started working at the office years prior make significantly more than people who started in more recent times.
Thanks for sharing, it's a sentiment that I have heard repeated many times
As usual a top notch intelligent and kind of gentle narrative that evokes deep thought and reflexion. I'd be as well happy to know what that beautiful piece of music at 2:18 was. Shazam just can't identify it.
I don't think you will find any of the music I use on Shazam as I am getting them from a paid royalty free site. That one is called shards of Night light..I thought it was pretty nice as well
Good Morning! I know a Paul. 😂 Talking about money is hard. But ain t it a thing of how good you know someone. If you get to know each other better you get more comfy talking about it ( but talking about hard numbers is still very unusual).
Well greeting to Paul form me then😉. I think in Germany that's definitely the case...only with really close friends but I think in the UK the stigma surrounding money is not as strong as it is in Germany
Do you know the german saying, « Über Geld spricht man nicht, Geld hat man. » and do the Brits have an equivalent ?
Among HR people in Germany there is quite some controversy about transparency of salaries and whether you should put at least a salary range in a job ad or not. And if you look at salary comparisons between individuals in a company, so many things play a role: Specific skills, what the labour market was like when the job was vacant, what the individual performance is like .. I have seldom been asked by friends or casual acquaintances how much I earn - but talking about "how big is your flat / house?", "how much rent you you pay?", "how much did you pay when you bought this place?" is relatively normal even among people you casually meet at a party etc. If people ask you that their motivation behind is usually not to find out what you earn but really an interest in cost of houses / flats and collecting benchmark data on these points ..
Yeah there are many factors to take into account. On the one hand it’s good to know what they are offering on the hand it’s harder to negotiate if there amount is already advertised
Alte Verträge are the best!
Good morning.. thank you for your video.. make me think about the future.. sometimes life changes and you are on a different level of having money .. I just have to think of the skills I used in my student times when money was short. I am sure I can handle it, but it will be less going out, having nice journeys, or buying ( and this is a good point - unnecessary ) things😊 but then the things you do become more value for yourself.And for that, I am glad that there is not much talk about money. Only with my best friends. Have a very nice Sunday..
Thank you and same to you :)
In vielen deutschen Arbeitsverhältnissen gab / gibt es eine Klausel, die es dem Mitarbeiter untersagt, mit dessen Kollegen über sein Gehalt zu sprechen. Diese Klausel wurde durch Gerichtsurteile mittlerweile für ungültig erklärt. Man darf also untereinander seine Gehälter vergleichen und falls jemand für die gleiche Arbeit weniger bekommt, hat er in der Regel einen Anspruch auf das höhere Gehalt. Vor kurzem hat ein Gericht entschieden, dass sich der Arbeitgeber nicht darauf berufen darf, dass der Besserverdienende einfach besser verhandelt habe. In many German employment contracts, there was / is a clause that prohibits the employee from talking about his salary with his colleagues. This clause has now been declared invalid by court decisions. It is therefore allowed to compare salaries among each other and if someone gets less for the same work, he is usually entitled to the higher salary. Recently, a court ruled that the employer is not allowed to claim that the higher earner simply negotiated better. - Translation by 'deepl'.
Interesting. I’m not sure how I feel about that. It’s very socialist and it means there is no motivation to strive to achieve. Some people are very content with just doing the bare minimum whereas others really want to progress and I think that should be compensated accordingly.
"Don't talk about money" -> in the (larger) companies that are bound by collective bargaining agreements, you only need the salary group and can then often estimate the approximate salary online. "Old contracts" -> yes, old employment contracts often contain allowances, benefits, additional vacation days that exceed the collectively agreed benefits. For decades, many companies have reduced their employment contracts to the collectively agreed minimum. In my work area this means that 1 less holiday day is paid, 1 additional salary less and allowances have been reduced from approx. 12% to 4% of salary. Not to mention other allowances that have been eliminated (employer pension contributions, days off in the event of death of an immediate family member, child birth, health care allowances=glasses, dentures, etc.)
Yeah in that sense it sometimes pays not to change jobs or you have an old contract with good conditions
Good morning everyone. Does talking about money make you uncomfortable and have you thought about why that might be?
Dunno, your income pays for your life and all, when i hang with my friends i assume youre able to fund your own consumpotions but care not really much about it 😂
Why would anyone want to talk about money? I never spoke with friends about money, it never happend and it is no lost feeling that we didn't. With my wife, brother and parents I had a conversation about their and my income but only to see if anybody struggles or if all is well in this regard. No need to speak about money at all. If i go to a restaurant with friends each will pay for themself anyway except I was invited because of a birthday or so. Back to your question: I don't know, nobody ever asked me. It is not of any importance for my friends or collegues. cheers
@@grischakugelmann2660 yeah its like with talking about plumbing, yeah if you and your friend are plumbers, or interested in plumbing but in most cases its just an uncomfortable conversation 🤣
@@grischakugelmann2660 well there are 1000 and 1 reasons why you would want to talk about money. Most problems in life stem from health, relationships or finances and it certainly makes particular aspects of life a lot easier and more enjoyable if you have money…but of course without the other two it’s not that helpful
Here we have an important statement. "Health, relationships and money." Yes, being health is the most important attribute we have, Everything else can fall into place if we are healthy in body and mind. Interestingly, people talk a lot about health, fewer about relationships - but still lots - and even fewer about money.
Beautiful cinematic nature shots :)
Thank you
I understand the discomfort issue. Some key workers, in social-care, logistics, service industry and many other areas are simply not remunerated fairly when compared to many others. Also, many people may have to deal with disadvantageous social and physical environments. So, basically money is not fairly distributed. You mentioned clearly how it feels to not be respected and the feelings having it or not having it generate. As you say, social media spreads all kinds of comparisons and people can develop trauma by feeling they don't have ... whatever it may be ... to be valuable human beings. (There's a word; valuable.)
It is ironic that some of the most important jobs like farming and care are some of the lowest paid. It skews society quite drastically because wages are something that people consider when applying for jobs…
I do talk about money as we can't compare if we don't. If my colleague does the same work, he deserves the same money. (Differences in experience aside). Talking about money has the advantage that we can better assess how fair it is. However, I absolutely reject boasting about money. Money does not define our worth, but it has a high value in our lives. Not talking about it harms the mass of employees in the end.
I also think we shouldn’t necessarily shy away from it. It comes right after health and relationships in terms of importance…and maybe for many come even before these things
I agree, money is a touchy topic. In my experience, German culture tends to be more materialistic, and it's quite common to give money to a friend in return for a favor. I was myself absolutely shocked when a German friend did that to me. Actually, it's even very much expected in many cases. It's really interesting how German culture connects money and appreciation in a way that may seem strange to other cultures. I have observed it very often in Germany that people put money as a topic, when it comes to doing someone a favour.. I remember feeling like I had to give money to German friends who helped my family, and they were actually happy and totally fine with it. In another culture, that could have been seen as absolutely no go.. Another story I remember a close friend of mine, who was understandably upset when her father (a medical doctor) asked her to pay for the contraceptives he provided, despite her being a struggling student with a limited income... There is hundreds of stories in regards to German culture and money from daily life which can make you feel quite awkward to be honest.. I definitely became more materialistic, and probably a bit too 'Stumpf' after living in Germany for a while,.. not necessarily a good thing.
Boomers yes. Young people in Germany not so much
That’s very interesting. I wonder where you are from? I would say for me Germany is much less materialistic than what I was used to but again it’s all a matter of perspective
@@britingermany really!!? You think Germany is less materialistic !? It might be that my feeling about or definition for being materialistic is different than yours. Also, I'm not entirely sure but could it be that the lack of ability to express someone's self and ideas and benefit from them could be easily confused with being less materialistic. btw. I'm of Syrian origin, but I really wish I was more Syrian than I am ... unfortunately living in a rather confirming society for a long period of time certainly leaves its marks in your identity.. sometimes in a positive way .. I am probably essentially Syrian in hear, German in mind and European in identity, with some touch from different other cultures!
@@amjadsawah9596I think it also depends on where in Germany. I live in the Baden part of Baden-Württemberg. Swabians and Badeners are different. Hopefully that will change with the younger generations. Typical first question from a Swabian: "Hosch Gschäft?" Do you have work?😢
@amjadsawah9596 I think paying a friend for significant, time consuming favors, unless you are in financial difficulties, is a good way to go, even more so if you need his help and expertise repeatedly, and have nothing else you can offer in exchange. It makes sure to him or her that you’re not taking advantage of the relationship and don’t take things for granted, which also is a relief to yourself, as you show appreciation and thus can come back for more favors. This concept also isn’t strange to the Anglo-American culture, which manifests itself in the words "I owe you.“
I find the German attitude towards money and commerce confusing and contradictory. If you look at the prices of identical items in ebay, you find that the prices from sellers in Germany is very very high, among the highest prices in the world, alongside the countries of Japan, Israel and Australia. Yet I have been to Berlin twice. In the Berlin museums the souvenir shops sometimes close well before the museum its self and being in one of them, I took a couple of books to the counter to buy them, only to be told that the shop was not open for commerce. In British museums the souveneir shop is open until the minute the museum officially closes, and sometimes stays open a little longer to gain a little more revenue. I was in an antique shop in Berlins 'Antique mile' and on asking the price of an item, was told that it is 40 Euros, to which I replied 30 Euros. I would have paid the full price if he stuck to 40 Euros and I initially thought that we would probably settle at 35 Euros. But the elderly man got annoyed and instantly capitulated and accepted 30 Euros. Perhaps he didnt feel like haggling with a non German speaker and perhaps haggling is not normal in German antique shops, but I thought that the Germans were hard fighters and negotiators. Incidentally, this item was really worth around 400 euros. I was amazed that this antique dealer didnt realize the true value of this item and it is the best camera find that I have ever found in any thrift shop, swap meet or antique shop.
Well regarding opening hours many foreigners get the feeling that Germans don’t want to make money. There are strict labour laws and I think that many people value their time more than money
There's a lot changing regarding talking about money and status in germany. I lived in switzerland for 10 years and it was pretty common to congradulate a neighbour for his nice new car. In germany the always the hidden question resonates as to how he was able to afford it again. It's still unconfortable to talk with colleages or strangers about salaries and money.
I think so too, although I do believe the younger generation is more comfortable with it (less so in Germany but still more so than a few decades ago)
Many say that Germany is a Neidgesellschaft. At least I read this quite often in the comment section of the papers I read.
Could you create a video about why more English-speaking nations are more interested in their cultural heritage and testing their DNA than Germans and other European nations are? I know that Marketing is part of it, but culture has to also play a role. As someone who is into Genetic Genealogy, this question has raised it's head.
perhaps they all want to be Germans at heart!
Thanks for the suggestion I can certainly look into it
Interesting topic, indeed. Personally, I cannot see any specific meaning or benefit if I knew that I had 6% Swedish DNA. That won't make me a Swede. I do know that there should be a substantial percentage of Polish DNA, but since I can only speak 10 phrases in Polish and have quite limited knowledge about what it means to live in Poland, every Polish person would probably die laughing if I was claiming Polish ancestry or started to fly the Polish flag from my balcony.
Money. Fascinating topic. I could go for hours and fill the entire page here. I won't, don't worry. Just some observations to what you said around 08:00. I do look at my level of pay as an indication of respect and how valuable my employer considers my contribution to be to the success of the enterprise. If I find that I am significantly underpaid, I would use this line of argument to negotiate for more money. I would do that if I felt my compensation is severely lacking, even if it is sufficient to cover my expenses, which leads me to my next point. My expenses are fairly low. I don['t have the large expense items that a lot of people burden themselves with. That includes newer cars, large mortgages, and the biggest expense of all, children. But I think I owe it to those other people in the labor market not to "bring down the averages" just because I can manage on less. If a job or skill has a prevailing wage I will not want to accept any lower because a fellow working in the same field will need that prevailing wage or more to pay for his house and his family. Attitude towards the rich, especially 'new money' rich may vary widely across societies. In the Anglosphere, you will very often find attitudes molded after the 'prosperity gospel', the Protestant belief that if you lead a god-fearing life, the Lord will smile on you and reward you with riches in this life, rather than waiting to collect your rewards in heaven. So being financially successful is looked at as being a good Christian. Whereas in egalitarian societies, especially communist-socialist countries, having more money than everybody else is considered proof-positive that you are corrupt, a criminal of some kind. Being rich is prima facie evidence of wrong-doing, because everybody else working working at the coal face with their bare hands, they are all struggling to get by. Other than that, it has been my experience that being quiet about money, specifically how much your job pays, only benefits the bosses. Don't hesitate to compare paychecks, and scream loudly when the bosses play favorites.
It is indeed! 😀
I too could fill pages on this subject. I once received a poor pay rise because I "blew the whistle" on a poorly paid colleague. The bosses had to bring him up to par. Even though I was punished, I'm glad I did it. (in the UK). In both countries, owning a house puts you up a notch. It's true in Germany even though many rent.
I live in the UK and I never discuss what my salary is, with anyone. When I get a bonus, only I and my manager know about it.
Fair enough. Thanks for sharing 🙏
As my dad got a nice Mercedes business car I pondered to secretly stick this on his bumper: "nicht jeder der Mercedes fährt, sich von redlich Arbeit nährt" but in the end I did not. Maybe I did Not want our family to show off. Of course it's totally okay that if you worked for something, you buy nice things, a fancy car, expensive laptop or smartphone, elegant fashion that you can't hide. Dislike this "keeping up with the Joneses" attitute.
🤣you so should have done that with the sticker!
Your dad should have bought a Maybach. More space for stickers.
The correct quote is 'love of money is the root of all evil' which is quite different from 'money is the root of all evil'.
I suppose it is. Although I’m almost certain that the essay assignment was the latter..
@@britingermany I've no doubt it was as it is very commonly misquoted. I find it hard to understand how one can say that 'money is the root of all evil, but easy to understand how 'love of money' can be. We witness the latter daily.
@@gerardharrison262 exactly!
On a German-British channel, you should consider the difference is hard to grasp for foreigners. Do you talk about greed ? That's the difference between wanting money and having money. But this is actually what drives capitalism, our society, ahead. It's also the source of all progress, definitly.
I used to think this was more of a personal issue than a cultural issue. I am very conservative when it comes to talking about money, but then I'm very conservative when it comes to talking about anything. The level of "transparency" here, let's call it that, shocked me when I first arrived. I couldn't believe how often I had to give my name, dob and nationality, just to do anything, and not just my nationality, but where I was born. But I really liked the transparency when it came to things like, renting rooms or flats. It was no longer a lottery, you knew what you were getting upfront, and you knew you weren't going to get scalped by the landlord 1 or 2 years later when they suddenly decide to raise the rent because that is the " market value ". Do I miss the way everything is about money in the UK? The way you eat, where you shop for groceries, where you live, buying a house, getting a degree, getting a job,...No. In Germany , you simply spend what you can afford, and that's it. If you earn more, you spend more. Ok yeah they can be a little bit controlling and sort of critical of other people's choices but ok. These days with the costs of living going up and up it's harder not to think of everything in terms of money, like how much will that cost or how much will that make, as opposed to, what is its intrinsic value, but still...I'll take the mentality here over the UK's anyday.
Totally agree with the rising cost of living that it forces you to think more about money. Most of us do not see any significant wage increases and yet the cost of living is sky rocketing. But that aside I do find it a really interesting topic to talk about and it's very telling who get defensive about it and who is quite comfortable talking about it.
@@britingermany I just rewatched your video. I have to admit, I didn't get it the first time. I kind of lost the plot about halfway through. Money does bring up a lot of "stuff", and can be traumatic to talk about. I think I would feel uncomfortable being pushed to talk about money, except with someone that I felt had the same values as I do. Even when I talk about how high rents are, I never actually say what I mean by "high". Money has always been for me, a source of, bad memories, reminiscent of not-so-great family dynamics, and of certain people. It's taken me a lifetime to learn that money can be a source of joy and happiness,...and health and freedom. But, not before sabotaging myself several times. Ain't hindsight a beautiful thing ?
As far as I can think back, all my employment contracts came with an NDA. So, the only other people who know my salary are HR and my immediate superior because the salary comes from his budget. In addition, when you apply for a job at a certain level, (but not only within top management) your employer usually has no fixed amount for that position but can go up (or down) within a certain bracket. For example, if one job usually is paid 100K but you know that there is competition among employers to find people willing to work for them, you may be able to score 120K.
And they don’t want employees to discuss this among themselves..
In my father's generation, it was totally unacceptable to talk about personal finance with your neighbours or even friends, as much as you didn't discuss your sex life with your neighbours. In fact, many work contracts expressly prohibit revealing the amount earned to colleagues. I think my father's work contract contained such a non-disclosure clause (he had a vocational training and worked at a chemical plant, so this was a blue collar job). That said, it took me some time until my wage equalled my father's pension. And I'm a laywer ... Yes, wages went down considerably since the mid 1990s. I think today, people are more relaxed to talk about money, but it general it is a non-subject. Germans take little interest in other people's income or financial situation.
Maybe because of the work situation. I’d you have a stable and secure job were it’s difficult for you to get fired then money doesn’t seem as important?
@@britingermany It was important, and even if you had a fairly well-paid job, you had to make hands meet. My father built out family home (by himself, he was a bricklayer in his first profession and built it after his day job), but also had to feed 4 children. In those times, and the morgages were pressing with 10 % interest rate. Overdraft was not yet offered by banks, and oftentimes there was a lot of months left at the end of the money. That said, my father was able to build a house, buy a used car and feed a family of six on one income. That would be impossible today. It was mostly a cultural thing. I don't know when it started, but it may have to do with the several crashes and hyperinflation Germany had seen between 1918 and 1949.
A traditional German saying goes "Über Geld spricht man nicht, Geld hat man." I know quite a few German families where the (grown-up) kids have no idea about their parents' salaries.
Thanks for this I should have mentioned that 😉
Den Spruch kenne ich aber zu Genüge! Und was waren meine Eltern sauer, wenn man gewagt hat, das so offen zu sagen… 😂😂😂
My parents were not rich but we always had enough(?). Also enough to pay for my university (rent, living), so it wasn't bad I think. But I never knew how much my father earned. I know that the pension of my mother was rather small even with the pension of my (deceased) father. I learned to be careful with money spending. And I always try not to give out too much info to others if I buy something. I rather underplay what it costs not to look rich (which I'm not 😞).
This way, it's also very easy to impose to have money. It's not so common nowadays any more, but actually nobody can see, if the big car in front of your house is paid cash or on credit. You can just go where rich people go, and they will think you belong there. When I go to a michelin-star restaurant, people can not see, whether I do this once every 5 years, or monthly. But you are considered wealthy there.
Money is nice to have, but focussing on money only to define yourself or your " worth " is sick. There are values money cannot buy. Sometimes it appears that societies classifying you about your networth lack of solidarity and common responsibility. When you want to know about the wages/salaries in Germany, look up the agreements between trade unions and branch representation of the companies. If you are a free lancer, of course, the terms of your contract depend on your negotiation skills. Boss, what do you think about my working skills? If it's fine, how about a sign of appreciation on my bank account? I was lucky and could work for 45 years with a good working contract. My retirement pay is way over average. My friends get a lot less and sometimes struggle, especially when it comes to holidays. I thought that I could spend a good time on holidays with them, but my dearest friends cannot afford it. And I hate to travel alone. So money is not everything. 😻
Very true but glad you are in a good situation financially
Every since the EURO was introduced, wages and salaries haven't been the equivalent as what was paid back in Deutsche Mark days. People have a tendency to forget this. The younger generation obviously only grew up wit the the Euro and Angela Merkel, so, of course they can only learn about the pre 2002 era in school (?) or from TV docs or from their relatives (parents or grandparents).
Thanks for making this point
@@britingermany Thank you, sir, for commenting and for your quick response.
It's quite interesting how some people use their salary to show off and judge others. I've seen this happen quite a few times, when someone asks, "How much do you make?" and then answers with something like, "Oh, really? You should work on improving your skills because I earn three times that amount. But hey, it's because my skills are in high demand." It's condescending and judgmental, with a sprinkle of boasting on the side, and not actually judging the person for who they actually are, rather than how big their wallet is. Money is important, sure, but it generally comes from selling your services as work, but then that whole "Do you work to live or live to work?" question comes up.Interestingly in the Nordic countries, everyone's salaries are public information, which makes employers forced to be more fair. As for people who are from well off backgrounds, I can imagine that it's difficult for them to integrate without the same thing happening but in the opposite direction, the assumption that because you have the money, then you're some kind of snob who looks down on the serfs. Schönes Wochenende
Danke schön und gleichfalls 🙏
DeLonghi Dedica... Good joice!
🤣You recognised it from that clip? You must be a pro. Yes I love it. It's great
@@britingermany I consider myself to be an amateur barista. The Dedica was my number two choice, I opted for a Smeg though, just for the lols, because I love Red Dwarf. So, I can call myself a Smeg-head. However, the Dedica is awesome! Coffee-up... Well... You see how I threw in a false friend here? "Den Kaffe auf haben", means being fed up about something.
@@KevinJohnBusche oh my god so many double meanings going on there. I do hope you understand the meaning of smeg…but we won’t go there 😂😂
@britingermany Oh please. Do go there! 😊
I think the general "problem" is that these days a value of any individual is sen. through the amount of economic output reflected by the salary as value of almost anything is monetised. Yet, the most important and valuable aspect of human life bear no or very little income, therefore are not seen as of value ( home childcare, looking after the elderly etc.) I think that money and need to express the "value" of absolutely everything by money is sn obsession of today.
Yes I would agree. It’s so easy to quantify and calculate money. The other things a way less tangible
I am from Germany in my 40s and I feel uncomfortable when people ask me how much I make. In my experience people do not give you a concrete answer to this question unless you are really close. In my opnion people either are envious if you earn more than they are or they think you are stupid if you earn less than them. I do not think this question ever has a postive outcome. I worked in payroll for quite some so I have some insight into how much people in Germany actually earn and how much varaince there can be between individuals doing essentially the same job. There are two groups: People who do not tollerate a compensation below market value and switch jobs every couple of years and who are not shy asking their boss for a rise. Then there are people who are comfortable in their job for 10+ years, do not really want to look for another job and rarely ask for a rise. Especially in small and mid-sized firms the former group can earn up to 100% more than the latter group. This is unfair and people do not want to face this inequality. So they avoid the topic because they know that there can be huge variations in pay.
Thanks for sharing. That’s very interesting. I suppose it’s the same as with everything else. Things come to those who ask and don’t take no for an answer.
I've always openly talked about my salary. But I'm a teacher paid by the state. Therefore everybody can look up what I earn in a month. It's no secret... And I believe it was always ok for me because I earn well but not overly well. That would make me uncomfortable then. It would seem like bragging and disrespecting less well off friends. And it's nothing I'd talk about to strangers.
Thanks for sharing 🙏
Germans are for a large part very reticent when money and earnings become a subject. Especially here in Swabia a lot of very well off people live in “normal” houses and drive regular cars, there are very few fancy villas in our community and one hardly sees Ferraris and such … Especially wages/salaries are a touchy subject, one doesn’t know the salaries of coworkers or neighbors, one doesn’t talk about it. In fact my last employment contract included a clause that I was not to discuss my salary with my coworkers. In later years I knew what my parents made and vice versa, but that was something for only the very closest family members, to this day I have no idea how much my uncles, aunts and cousins earned resp. earn - its a subject even more touchy than what party one voted for … Completely different from the USA, where relatives, friends and coworkers are not shy about how much or how little they earn.
I think I would generally agree with this. Of course it's possible to know what some people earn if they are in a particular Tarif or if they are privately insured you have an idea but it's generally not something to be discussed.
Coming from the US, one reference that caught my attention is when you talked about the uproar when a worker found another worker made more money. You said they had an older contract. For most wage earners in the US we never think of job conditions being a "contract". A contract is what a baseball player gets. Unionized workers job conditions are regulated by a contract. Most average workers in the US are 'at will' employees. This generally means the company can expect loyalty and extra effort from their workers. When you decide to leave the job they expect two weeks notice at minimum. However, when it is in the company's interests they can release you tomorrow. They might have some company policy to give you two weeks pay when they release you, but that is not a legal requirement. The issue has a deep and subtle impact on how people view money. You mentioned how communist countries and former communist countries tend to hide their money and wealth information. I think this applies to 95% of their population but does not apply to those that were, and are, in the elite class of the top 2%. I suspect these people hold views that the nobility of ages past would find great understanding with. My work experience in the US has been that companies encourage their workers to not talk about their salary information. They make it feel like a social faux pas to even know such information. In fact, it is a measure of control the company exerts over their workers that shields the company from having to be fair and even-handed in worker treatment. Yet government workers on the federal level know what everyone makes in their organization because every job is defined by a GS pay grade with publicly announced wage rates. Your story about 'Paul' probably has as much to do with issues of class as it does money. BTW- your topic selections (and your video editing) never cease to amaze me. Your entire presentation makes me feel like if we knew each other personally you would be someone I would make an effort to cultivate as a friend.
Thanks a lot Jeff. That does sound very different in the US. Here one months notice is normal and 3 months notice are not unusual for both sides to let the other one know if they want to end the contract.
I do not look down on people who have less even help them but i do not want lazy people around me and can become very jealous a heart do not have a window
There is the German expression: Geld verdirbt den Charakter. In my opinion it s a bit too simplistic. Viel Geld zu haben/zu verdienen ist eine Herausforderung für den Menschen. It can destroy the individual if he/she is is not mindful of the problems money may entail.
Right. Like the ring of power. Not everyone can handle it…or maybe if you get too much too fast it can be problematic.
❤❤❤❤❤❤❤❤❤😊😊😊
I don´t talk about my earnings..I simply find questions about how much do you earn and along those lines kinda obscene as like as getting asked for the penis size...I´m from the older generation.
🤣ok that makes sense
Money *was* a medium of exchange, and whilst it still serves that purpose, it is also far more than that. Not only has money become *the* commodity, in a global (Capitalist) political economy, money is the sole reason anything is done, or not. The earth is being raped in order to provide money for people who already have way too much - 8 people control as much wealth as 3.6 billion people. There, we think of wealth in terms of money rather than in terms of free time, unspoilt nature, peace, etc. We measure economic growth in terms of how much richer the already rich have grown rather than in terms of increased education and/or health care availability. In England raw sewage is pumped into rivers and the sea whilst billions of gallons of water are lost through leakage every year, simply because those in charge would rather pay themselves fat bonuses and their shareholders hefty premiums rather than invest in adequate infrastructure. At least ten million people die every year as a result of hunger despite there being more than enough food for everyone; they simply cannot afford to pay for it. Money isn't even real yet, along with another intangible concept, controls our lives.
Wow that is a lot. Thanks for sharing
@@britingermanyOh yes indeed. A whole lot.
Income is almost the only scale to evaluate people. So by publishing the number, you join the contest, you could feel as looser, you can make others feel as a looser, and people try to avoid that. The difference in Germany, is the strong tendency to equality. You want to be considered "normal average" not sticking out in one or the other direction. Somebody with a high income is not considered an idol, it's more despised. You seperate yourself from society when becoming a millionaire. (you want to become one, but you are telling nobody). Instead of trying to get up, Germans try to pull everybody down to their level, to gain equality. That's a little self destructive.
Yeah that certain is self destructive if you put it like that!
@@britingermany Karl Marx was German, all the Social Insurances were first established by Bismarck 1881. It's deep in mentality. Some say, it's coming from Preussian Militarism, all soldiers are equal. Germany is more based on huge employers with masses of people doing a similiar job. In school or public reception, founding a business or making career is not a topic. Planing of life most often ends with getting a job, and literally keeping it for 45 years. Which is going to erode ...
In dieser Dokumentation kann man gut erkennen, dass es vielen armen Menschen leichter fällt, über Geld zu sprechen, als Normalverdienern oder Reichen. In der Dokumentation geht es um arme Rentner in Großbritannien, aber in Deutschland ist es leider auch nicht besser. In this documentary you can see well that many poor people find it easier to talk about money than normal earners or rich people. The documentary is about poor pensioners in Great Britain, but unfortunately it is not better in Germany. - Translation by 'deepl' kzhead.info/sun/ldh6lsqyb2WDdWw/bejne.html
Thank you
@@britingermany If I was a "pensioner" in the UK I would not have to pay for health & I'd get a free bus pass.( and in London everyone over 60 gets to travel on Busses & trains for free) In Germany I have to pay tax, health insurance, "pflegeversicherung?", from my pension & still have to pay for public transport. That's why you see so many pensioners/old people looking through rubbish bins at stations for empty bottles & cans so that they can take them to the supermarket to get the 25cent deposit back!!! This shouldn't happen in Europe's wealthiest economy should it?
Seriously spoken, it is a personality thing. If you need a bigger payslip to be something, or a big car - I feel sorry for you. For me knowledge / education, memorable moments in life, visited places and collected experiences are much more of werth. But I don't show them arround, they are just for me. I know that there are old contracts wich pay much better than newer ones, companies changed the names of jobs to pay different because of working laws and unions. Money is important but live is much more important. I only work 100 hours per month, I know I could earn much more than I do but I want the free time over the money. I get 36 days payed vacation, we have arround 10 payed hollidays in my 'Bundesland' and every sunday is free. Live balance over money. cheers
Sounds like you got a good deal. I think many people could afford to work less. I think it also depends on your "season of life" and stage you're at in your career
@@britingermany No I don't agree, it is just who I am, I started to work 3 jobs before I even finished the school to get as much money as possible, much later I realized how stupid this thinking was and what I missed out on. Now I have two kids and my wife works 100 hours as well, we see us every day for many hours and each full sunday and do holidays together, much better than working. We don't earn a lot but we don't need so much, non of us drinks, smokes or gambles. We almost only eat organic (most of our money goes into food) and we travel 1-3 times a year. That is exactly the life I want. cheers
@@grischakugelmann2660 actually it seems like you just agreed with me. You used to work three jobs because you were in a different “season of life” but now you have changed and adapted.
@@britingermany It is a bid more complex. I said no to the 'good deal' and career, because I dumped both for my family and much later (when corona started) I realized that this is what I like the most. While others never saw each other before corona happened and split up later or while the restrictions where ongoing we realized that corona changed almost nothing except for the kids timetable. I decided to ask for a change of my working hours so I could guard the kids when my wife went to work and now I stay with the hours even corona is almost gone (6-10 am five days a week mo.-sa. most of the time we. off). So maybe I am the only one that took out something good (and not only 'positiv') out of the situation. But I have no longer a 'career' and I don't think that others could do it in the same way. cheers ps: (I hate my job very often but love the combined situation)
@@grischakugelmann2660 I totally get that I think it is better to choose family over finances any day do the week. Good luck with everything 😀
people who judge over jung guys of rich families 《awe, "poor" rich kid》are simply not intelligent. But everywhere people judge you very fast, just by very, very few facts.
Indeed. It’s hard when you’re young and trying to form your own identity
I often experience, any way of talking about it, describing something, is considered judgement. That's ridicolous. It's like I say "sky is blue", somebody else perceives it as 'I don't like it'. Don't know why this is, but it is.
Über Geld spricht man nicht! Schönen Sonntag
🤣Exakt!
Ich stimme zu.
All though i come from a poor family I work very hard to achieve i what i have and people All ways about my life and refer to it because of that i make a distance if people work hard they can All so come some where uit
The attitude towards money in German might change in the years to come. If you are correct with your assumption that the comfortable social system here attributes to a more laid back attitude towards money then Germans wil have a painful waking up from that sleep of security. The social federal budget is already around fifty percent and the breakdown of that system seems to be programmed.
We will see. I do think that young people already have a different attitude to talking about money than older generations. However I have always assumed that there will be nothing left for me when I get to retirement age
@@britingermany As you grew up with a rather frugal lifestyle you might succeed somehow to get along with being poor in old age. But looking at you now your expectation might have changed I assume.
@@rainerm.8168 well I’d rather not be 😂 I’m counting on the A.I bots to save us 😉
People, the discussions about money are the same the world over. The only difference is that some Germans (die Schwaben) are even meaner than the Tykes, Jocks and Tyne-Tees types put together. Hence, they don’t also like credit and paying for it. Good attributes in a sensible honest world, but Germany and Europe under Berlin gnostic-cultists once again doesn’t offer a sensible world (ever). Anglo-German here by parentage and having lived in various countries - including Germany and Britain.
Why have people got such a problem talking about money
I think it’s because of what I discussed in the video…
envy? I heard several times the by far best source of information or if you will whistleblowers for the revenue office when it comes to tax dodging are envious relatives and neighbors.
The word "salary" reminds me of this: kzhead.info/sun/eqiqqNqAioKraJs/bejne.html. 😁🤣
Sounds to me like Paul ( who gave you a lift ) was falling in love with you.
🤣🤣I don’t think so
Don't be modest - u'r a lovely guy.
Your English is so heavily accented now. 😂
Really?!
I disagree... he is just very well spoken.
Sorry, but low number of americans invest in the stock market, but americans like to buy homes and use that as a future investment. Which over a lifetime will give you place to stop rent increases, but double are triple in value down the road.
Until the next housing crisis that is…😉
@@britingermany if it does happen. Just like before german lost billions of dollars. Because germany had invested it's pension fund in america stock market at that time. The america even now gets countries from most of the EU to invest their funds in the american stock market. The america economy even now is the strongest economy in the world and with the lowest inflation in the G7 countries. Inflation is now almost at its target rate of 2 percent. We are see growing numbers of germans having to go to private food shelters to stay alive. England is also showing growing numbers of its citizens with the same problem. America has been shipping large amount of natural gas to germany. Yes, no more cheap natural gas from russia to the EU countries. America has become the largest energy supplier in the world. My energy cost has decrease in my home from my energy company along with all others in my city.
Maybe thats why US is more successful and continues to develop
And extremely higher government and private debt! US INC. not a country
I would rather say "evolves" backwards.
@@arnodobler1096 Any professional in the US makes so much more than in Germany, simply because your hard work gets rewarded rather than stolen to feed the lazies like they do in most of Europe. Whats the use of working hard if it is to be force fully taken away by the govt. No wonder every one is just lazy in Europe and just wants to do the bare minimum and enjoy some friggin holiday meanwhile barely being able to afford anything living pay check to pay check. You could say the same about middle class in the US , but any specialised professional in the US is way better off than being in miserable Germany. Even health care is top notch. Every major invention comes out of the US and not Germany . There is a reason for that ; they like to take risks and work hard . In Germany you expect the govt to do everything
@@venlafaxinedomperidone8377You're just talking rubbish, sorry! Apple, for example, buys the elements in Japan, South Korea and Taiwan and then has them assembled in China. Other than the kitchenAid food processor, I don't know of any US product that I would buy. What is sold as work culture in the US is modern slavery. US education sucks. Healthcare is totally overpriced and unattainable for many. They are leaders only in the military. Are you from the USA and if so, have you ever been to Europe and where? You believe the ad too, don't you?🙈
@@arnodobler1096👏👏👏🎯
Those are interesting thoughts. 15 years ago, our boss asked me and my colleague if we would talk about our salary. When neither of us said anything, he said: "It's your own fault." My colleague then looked for a better job and at some point I was fired for "operational reasons". - Self-employment, private bankruptcy, unemployed, dismissed twice during the probationary period. Now I'm doing further training to become a "full stack developer" with a certificate of completion. This is Germany: It also takes care of (pays for) its older children. My personal thoughts (not found in the English Wikipedia): "Rich are not those who have much, but who need little - poor are those who desire much." (de.wikipedia.org/wiki/Johannes_Chrysostomos#Predigtstil)
Very interesting. Thanks for sharing 🙏