What if the reversers OPEN in flight?!
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How do Pilots use the Thrust Reversers and what are they actually good for?
What types of thrust reversers are there and do they actually help the aircraft to reduce its landing distance?
These are a few of the questions that I will try to answer in todays video.
I often get questions about why the aircraft is making so much noise after landing and why it looks like the engines are "splitting in two". Reversers is a fascinating subject and I hope you will learn something new from this video!
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A special "Thank you!!" to the featured channels in todays video. To see the full videos of the clips shown, use the links below!
geckoneun (Engine design and reverse thrust)
• 3D Triebwerk mit Schub...
Paddington Brown (Bucket door reversers)
• Video
Air-Clips.com (EVA Air 747 reverser Spray)
• INCREDIBLE!! Boeing 74...
Topfelia (B737MAX landing with reversers)
• Boeing 737 MAX combat ...
Boeing (Rejected T/O B747)
• Boeing 747-8 performs ...
LZGSG (B737 cockpit landing)
• Crosswind landing at R...
Bigcha705 (B737 reverser view)
• Boeing 737-800 Reverse...
PlanesWeekly (Thrust reverse handling on landing)
• COCKPIT - Boeing 737 P...
BoeingB737 (A339 ECAM with reverser indication)
• A330 full takeoff ecam...
RobRami D (Turboprop reverse on landing)
• rare view of Bombardie...
AviationKnowledge (B737 thrust reverser schematic)
• Video
'First officer doggo' is adorable 🐕💜
MaltaMcMurchy Tyats the captain fool
@@woaa8117 Yeah, he's the captain.
I also like to watch these dog videos 🥳 They are brilliant 👍
I understand that this is mostly directed to new pilots who are just beginning to learn their craft,but it is immensely fascinating to those of us who aren’t and probably will never be pilots.
The strength of that pylon holding the engine is incredible. You'd think with all that force, that it would snap off the wing. Great video! Cute dog. 😀
@ electron. it's not just the pylon... the engine is mounted onto the pylon / wing via explosive bolts...!! the bolts are used to secure ie hang the engine to the pylon / wing BUT at same time are designed to shear off and "release" ie let go of engine in case of accident, so that the engine would not rip the wing apart..!!
@@bahardin3992 I know all that already.
@@electronicsNmore that could have been politer
@@fastflight2494 it was polite, I didn't put an exclamation point after what I said.
@@electronicsNmore fair point. Sorry about that
Your dog is like "There is no one in the room. Who is he talking to?" 😅
They don't judge their humans for mental conditions. The good doggos just trust we're talking to someone they don't see.
I was in a DC8 many years ago. The pilot wanted to quickly lose altitude to avoid a thunderstorm and reversed thrust in flight to quickly land. I was amazed while none of the other passengers seemed to understand what was happening. Never forgot it.
Alan Snider DC 8s can reverse the inboard engines as they do not have speed brakes
@@charliebrown6161 A DC-8 most certainly does have spoilers (aka speed brakes). Erroneous deployment of the spoilers shortly before landing in Toronto is what crashed Air Canada flight 621, a DC-8, in July 1970, killing everyone on board.
@@HartmutWSager I worked on the DC8 some years ago and although I agree about reverse thrust, I do not recall and airbrakes.
@@HartmutWSager There are quite a few variants of DC-8 with radically different features. Some criticism of that denzel film with the extinguisher for example not cutting the engines, genuinely was possible on that earlier style of DC-8. In this case only the first few out of the factory had airbrakes, as it was removed before full deployment.
@@carbon1255 Indeed, there are quite a few variants of DC-8 with different features, just like there are in most other plane series too, but are we even talking about the same item here? You have again referred to "airbrakes", which I took as a mislabelling of "speedbrakes", which itself is a mislabelling of spoilers. If you are referring to spoilers, practically every large jet aircraft of the last 70 years has them (to diminish lift right after touchdown). Otherwise, what are you referring to with "airbrakes"? Obviously not the reverse thrust mechanism (though the term "airbrakes" might be apt there), since you are separately referring to reverse thrust. Please clarify. Love your logo! But, you didn't want to "be dated" with Carbon-14? No spare neutrons handy?
The Lauda air plane, that crashed was called " Mozart". I flew with her the same route from Vienna to Sydney one year before the accident happened. She was brandnew. I never felt so safe. Couldn't believe it when it happened. I sat in this beauty. All the flight attendants were beautiful modells from the catwalk. So sad! This crash destroyed the upcoming " Lauda Air".
Can only imagine how amazing that was. FAs now on US airlines are generally the opposite of runway models. Nikki Lauda clearly knew how to run a class operation
1. That dog is alive. 2. Most of his videos start off sounding as if he is speaking German. 3. Cool vid.
He is Swedish, so it honestly isn't that strange.
@Honkler In that case Dutch and Swedish accents in English sound similar to you. Most Swedes who speak English with a bit of an accent sound like that.
He is Hitlers grandson
@Honkler Echt niet.
it's interesting isn't it, considering he's Swedish. lol
As an aircraft engineer myself I love your vids. It's interesting to see a pilot with your level of mechanical knowledge. Great job highspeed
Short answer: the plane flies back to the departure point and everybody gets their money back.
Viktor Kaganovich 😂😂😂
and happily ever after, the end
Wow Thumbs up there
Or worse, goes even more back to every other flights
Viktor Kaganovich lmao good one brother
This actually happened a while ago on a 767 in mid-flight and during cruising, it caused a massive bad chain of events. The aircraft reached extreme G-forces and then broke up and crash into a mountain range, unfortunately, killing all on board.
Lauda air was the airline !but nikki the owner found the fault and got compensated by Boeing !
As in Niki Lauda the F1 legend?
I was a passenger on a DC8 where the thrust reversers broke off on one engine immediately upon landing in Calgary many moons ago. The aircraft crabbed sideways and hopped up and down in the air. Rather scary. I was on a flight from Vancouver to Montreal and after 8 hours of waiting while they were repairing, they announced they were transferring us to another aircraft and we all cheered.
That was always a thought of mine. What if one side fails. Do you careen down the rest of the runway like a childs pinwheel.
It’s absolutely amazing the amount of knowledge needed to know to fly a ✈️. Love the videos and the 🐕
The doggo so cute
He is indeed.
Mentour Pilot yesss lol
He'd do a great First Officer.
Pet the damn dog!
He's cute, but he needs less caffeine :)
Your dog is cracking me up! He's just laying there like a kid
First time I watch one of your videos, and was impressed you knew the 10ft or below radar alt thrust rev deployment was possible. I know guys licenced on type who don't believe me when I tell them that. After the Lauda incident, there were two AD's I distinctly remember directly related to that crash, that came out on the B732's I was working on at that time. One was a mechanical lock on it's JT8 buckets and the other had to do with passenger seats. I once watched a BA B744 have 2 engines go into uncommanded thrust rev right after rotation. The mechanical locks that were incorporated on the RB211 after the Lauda crash meant the reversors only extended about 2 inches before mechanically locking. Of course the power automatically reduces in said engines, but she was able to climb out with full pax and around 118 tons of fuel. I say around 118 tons, because thats what we used to fuel our B744 for the same route.
The dog must be thinking jees my owner talks to himself a lot.
Lol
That's what I thought
I commented this same thing on one of his other videos the other day 🤣
I bet he wishes that he would talk about dog biscuits!
@@heididietrich9800 Dog biscuits and a long walk in the park.
I just have to say, I found this channel only because of my interest in supersonic air travel and interest in the Concorde and thanks to a couple of your high quality videos on the subject, I continued watching more and more of your videos any time I have a question or curiosity regarding air travel. Your content is phenomenal! I'm borderline addicted to your videos, I can't stop watching, they all seem so interesting and captivating! Also, I'm a huge automotive enthusiast and it's interesting to see how much translates from the auto world to the aircraft world. I have a pretty good understanding of a lot of things you talk about, such as when you talked about brakes and braking in this video.
Love your show! Very well explained..... my curiosity has been answered.... I’ve always been fascinated by the subsequent investigations of air-crashes and how the industry seems very committed to understanding and improving the engineering of airliners, pilots and processes. Nice to know that you’re also keen about understanding. Keep going!
I always love it when the thrust reverse is used, especially when it's wet out. Sounds and feels amazing. I'd be the guy craning his neck to look at the engine haha
I love how well you explain in detail. Thank you for taking your time to explain the detail. !
On the DC-8 you don't have in flight spoilers / speed brakes to slow down the plane on descend. The plane only has ground spoilers that activate when you have weight on wheels. In flight you can engage the reverse thrust on the inner (n 2 and 3) engines. It's a interesting plane to fly compared to more modern designs.
True - I got my flight engineer rating on the DC-8 and you could use idle reverse inflight on the #2 and #3 engines. Some crews would not do it, and Douglas apparently was concerned enough about a stuck reverser inflight that they put an "emergency stow" switch on the captain's overhead panel.
He’s so cute! Look at him biting his paw😆
?
That dog is living his best life now 😊
Thank you for mentioning that the DC-8 can deploy thrust reversers and descend rapidly. I remember reading about this in an aviation magazine in the mid to late 1960's. Now, my pilot friends can stop thinking that I made it up. Happy Landings, Mack
I remember the Lauda Air incident well. As far as I remember the pilots had the time to check the handbook, when the indicator for the thrust reverser came on - and it stated that there is no action necessary. So they probably might have had time to shut down the engine before losing complete control - if they would have known that this is the correct action. I think Boeing until then believed, that such an incident would not be possible and that the thrust reverser indicator could only be a malfunction of the panel. Tragic mistake. Niki Laude proved then in many simulator tests, that the pilots had no chance to regain control and the fault was clearly with Boeing. Thanks again for the great video! And your dog is just lovely!
The pilots reduced power to idle and even cutoff the fuel, but not fast enough. In the sim, they showed that the crew would only have 3-4 seconds to shutdown the engine before a catastrophic failure. They missed that window by only a couple seconds. Extremely tragic. Niki Lauda is a hero, forcing Boeing to fix this problem once and for all.
Bits of what I think is the CVR to that crash are on here.
When the propellors change pitch angle to reverse thrust there must be a huge amount of pressure at the hub bearing for a few seconds. Been in a turbo prop and you can feel like you are being wrenched out of your seat for a moment until the aircraft slows down. Love the moving cuddly toy beside you, very realistic, looks like a real dog trying to get affection from his master 😀😀
I enjoyed this video very much (and your dog is awesome). This topic has been on my mind for some time: About a decade ago I caught a ride on my employer's Citation III. It was a long flight, and I was sitting in the back row by myself. Out of curiosity I started opening cabinets in the head-compartment and found the flight manuals. I'm an aviation fan and an engineer so I was drawn to the manual labeled "Emergency Procedures." I opened to a random page and the first thing I saw was "Inadvertent In-Flight Deployment of Thrust Reverser." The thought that something like that could happen had never entered my mind. My brain did a quick calculation of the moment that would be created if one side deployed at speed while the other did not. All I could picture was our pretty plane turning into a Frisbee. I'm not a nervous flyer, but this was enough to make me put the manuals back where they belonged and return my attention to the novel I had been reading.
Lauda air 004 is worth a mention, among others. Thrust reversers have interlocks on them now because there have been a few accidents due to inadvertent deployment.
"It deployed!"
He mentions it 17:31
When I was in my early 20s, I am now in my mid 50s, I flew from Orange County, CA. to Sacramento Metro on an Embraer Brasilia. When the pilot was entering the landing pattern he did, in fact, bring the prop pitch in to beta. Whether by mistake, or because he needed to slow the aircraft quickly. I was sitting just behind the port wing, and had a clear view of the port engine. I could hear the change in prop sound, I could see the change in the prop silhouette, the engine did begin to shudder significantly, and visibly, and I could feel very significant deceleration over many seconds. I have since asked a few airline pilots about this, and have been told that this would NEVER happen, but I know what I experienced. I think that those pilots were just talking the party line. At the time this event occurred, I did already have some small aircraft flight experience. I have not before, or since, experienced that sort of deceleration over such a long period of time. I can say that it was quite an effective way to slow the aircraft.
Patxi is such an adorable pup ❤️
He definitely is. Laying here with me right now.
he's really working the camera in this one ! lol
Patxi? Are you a bask country lover? :)
@@MentourPilot Pretty soon, Patxi is going to need to hire his own agent! He could have his own KZhead channel!
what is this breed? very sweet.
Love your doggie - what a proper little teddy bear, so cute!!! 🐶🐶
He should have his own channel
Farlig66 ya he treats the doggie like a teddy bear an inanimated object. Should give some video time to the dog by petting the dog giving it some attention .
At 11:44 the dog has the same reaction as my GF has every time I’ll start talking shop
OMG, L-O-V-E your sweet dog! What a complete doll 😍😍😍
As always, your explanations are on point and very well for me as a "normal" curious passenger to understand. Thanks for taking all the time and patience! :)
7:34 the dog is so cute :D
I don't understand how reverse thrust has 0 impact on stopping distance if it's the only thing that slows you down on a wet runway.
What I gathered is that they use reverse thrust to (partly) replace braking instead of using using both at max. So they don't try to reduce stopping distance, maybe because that would just increase the distance they have to taxi, maybe because that would be uncomfortable. If they would rely on a combination of reverse thrust and braking to land on a short runway, you've also got little margin for error. One sudden rain and you're no longer able to land.
@@DutchBlackMantha That is okay, so it is not calculated like that, but the question is not why they do not use it to further reduce stopping distance, but why is that has zero impact on it. This part is also not clear for me. If you can stop the plane with brakes on the same distance as you can stop it with reverse trust /okay, not exactly/, then adding the two up together should reduce the stopping distance. So once again, I understand that they do not do it, and I understand why they do not do it, so my question is more related to physics than let's say logic.
It doesn’t make sense, because he’s wrong about that part. He is confusing planning and safety factors with physics. Of course they don’t want to plan that reverse thrusting will reduce braking distance, because if it fails, they may not be able to stop safely. But any time reverse thrust thing is being used, it absolutely does reduce braking distance. That is just undeniable physics.
@@bobbyjbobbyj Yeah he missed that part of the explanation. If its done in dry conditions why would the breaks not get as hot? Because the reverse thrust took some of the kinetic energy the brakes otherwise had to suck up all by themselves. And if you would apply max brakes and max reverse thrust you wouild stop sooner but with hotter brakes.
@@albinfiskare I understood that part. I was also confused, he explained it like even if you had max breaks and full reverse, you would take up the same stop distance as just full breaks. That part didn't make sense.
Love this channel. Even though I know all of this, it’s nice to see someone teaching others about flying. Thankyou.
I had asked myself this question myself when I accidentally engaged reverse thrust in X-Plane 11 today. Great video.
Murphy The Gamer l like your dog
Don’t know if it’s still done this way, but when I was flying the Jurassic and classic B-737’s runway RTO and landing figures were based on brakes only so T/R added a safety measure. Not to imply they don’t reduce landing distances because they do quite well. We used to power out of some gates on rare occasions when a tug was not available. As for deploying the T/R before touchdown, besides being a bad idea a pilot considering it should fly/land that particular airplane a few times beforehand to confirm the T/R deploy simultaneously. If they’re not synchronized which happens you’ll hit the ground on the side that deploys first. Maybe to the point of damaging the A/C.
Highly informative, you answered a question I always had and wanted to understand for a long time. Thanks
We flew from Cleveland to Chicago on an older 737 about 10 years ago, and I observed the 'clamshell' reverse thrusters kick in on landing. The sight (and sound) of those being deployed was something i'll never forget!
Yet puppy is back yet again! Love these videos.
The DC-9 series 30 actually always deployed their thrust reversers in flight as a matter of routine. Watch videos of the “9’s” landing. Take note when the reversers are deployed. You should see they are deployed after the mains are on the ground but before the nose is on the ground. We would pop the reversers without adding power on touch down and let the drag of the reversers gently lower the nose to the ground. Once the nose was on the ground, we then would add power to provide negative thrust. The DC-9 is not officially on the ground until the nose is down. That is because it did not have a WOW switch on the mains as with most other large commercial aircraft. It has a “Ground Shift Mechanism” on the nose gear. So as far as the aircraft knew, we were deploying the reversers while the aircraft and all the systems were still in the air. The longer series 80 DC-9’s didn’t do this because the engine exhaust were so close to the ground at landing attitude, the reversers would actually strike the ground if deployed and break off. This fact was learned the hard way by Hawaiian Airlines.
"As a matter of routine"? Hardly. The aircraft operating manual prohibited it, and a captain would be disciplined by the company, if detected or reported. Also, he would be in serious trouble if he had to cancel the reverse for a go around, in which case a full 8 seconds would be required for the engine to transition from reverse idle to take off thrust. I also have a type rating (And 8,000 hours) in the BAC 1-11, with the Rolls-Royce Spey engine, which was approved for use of reverse thrust in flight, as the idle to full spool-up time was only 2.8 seconds, as quick as propeller thrust. It was also approved for the use of idle power on approach, because of that advantage. This resulted in very quiet landings, with no reverse and long roll-outs, traffic permitting, and the terminal was at the far end of the runway. (10L at PIT, for example)
And, if you're wondering, Mohawk, Allegheny, USAir.
Perfect clarification and well supported by the additional in-videos . Thank's :-)
Excellent video as always. These just keep getting better and better.
Actually, the Space Shuttle trainer aircraft, a highly modified Gulfstream 2, had the capability of reverse thrust in flight. Not sure if it came that way or if they modified for that. But, they took astronauts up to 38,000 feet and threw the engines into reverse to simulate the rate of descent of the orbiter. Normal glideslope for an airliner is about 3%, for the orbiter, it was about 22%. That's headed downhill quite fast.
Awesome video!! Answered all my questions 😁
EveryTypeOfVideo 😀
Excellent!! I’m happy to hear that
Let me sum this us. "We use thrust reverse because there is no reason not to" Basic physics in play for frictions both for safety and for efficiency of the aircraft. Great video.
Thought airlines sometimes skip reverse thrust to save fuel (assuming they've calculated that the runway length is sufficient for safe braking)
Thanks for this explanation. Very informative!
The Lauda Air 767 was powered by a P&W 4000 series engine that didn't use a weight on wheels sensor activation system. GE CF6-80C powered 767 aircraft use weight on wheel sensors, and will not activate in flight. The CF6-80C was modified for re-powering the The Lockheed C5B aircraft, becoming the C5M. There is/was a requirement to be able to deploy the reverser in flight. The reverser blocker doors, cascades, and link arms had to be beefed up. The translating cowling blocker door reverser is much more effective that the as you called them bucket reversers. In the industry, they're referred to as clam shell reversers. Clam shell reversers have short time on wing life due to heat impingement.
Excellent info, thank you! I always thought the clam shell reversers looked pretty bad in comparison to the more modern type. I can imagine the heat generated that close to the turbine is probably 1000s of degrees.
T/Rs on any 767 could not be activated in flight due to the 'squat switch' which senses whether it's on the ground or not. There is an electrical circuit that prevents T/R actuation in flight. Lauda's 767 had a malfunction of that control circuit. GE provided their own T/Rs while Boeing-Wichita built the Pratt T/Rs. I think Rohr built the Rolls engine T/Rs. GE's design was determined to be in compliance, but a supplemental mechanical sync lock was added to the Pratt and Rolls T/Rs to prevent a recurrence on a number of Boeing, Douglas and Airbus airplanes. I know, since I invented it and have the patent.
@@Greatdome99 Sadly, Lauda’s 767 was doomed by overconfidence by Boeing and a “single point of failure.” A rare (and thus extremely difficult to reproduce) failure in the T/R ISO Valve may have been the ultimate cause of the in-flight T/R activation, but just like the O-Rings in the SRB’s were the ultimate cause of the Challenger explosion, it was overconfidence that had become endemic in NASA’s culture which ended up putting repeated pressure on Morton-Thiokol to issue a “GO” over several concerns about the extreme cold weather and the known flaw. Flight safety shouldn’t require passenger deaths to get right; it shouldn’t be something that is narrowly defined as contingent on a failure being survivable in one specific aspect of flight. Absolutely I’m grateful for the improvements made, but the cost is simply too high.
@@Greatdome99+ The 747 and 767 Boeing aircraft are the first aircraft where Boeing didn't manufacture the nacelle in-house. Engine manufacturers were being held to meet fuel burn guarantee/promises. They own the package of engine, nacelle and thrust reverser. Boeing Wichita didn't manufacturer the Pratt 4000 series reverser, Rhor did down the Chula Vista CA. General Electric didn't manufacturer their own reverser. Martin Marietta in Middle River MD was the designer and built the reverser.
Peter i appreciate your hard work and videos, i just downloaded your paid ap sort of appreciation to your work.keep it up Sir
I remember landing at Punta Delgada in the Azores, during awfully stormy, rain-swept, conditions; and rarely have I heard such noise as came from the TAP Airbus, we were on. The wind was so strong that the pilot seemed to get us level, and then 'drop' us down, before the wind caught us again. A hairy experience: but still love the Azores!
Thank you for answering this question, and your dog is wonderful :D
Hi @Mentour Pilot! When you start the takeoff roll you discussed why you do not immediately run up to take off thrust and allow the engines to stabilize before doing so - is the same thing needed on thrust reversers? Does this happen automatically? Sounds like you could have the same unbalanced thrust issue if you were to go from idle to full reverse. Thanks!
a little funfact about the traning of space shuttle pilots: Because the spaceshuttle is comperatively not very aeroydynamic, it has a 20° initial approach glideslope at 300knots and a decent rate of 10.000ft/min. To simulate that they train in a Gulfstream II jet with the gear extended and the engines in reverse.
Thumbs up for the pup! Great explanation, love your videos, thanks for sharing...
Great and informational video. And yeah, there’s been also accidents where the reversers didn’t activate when needed like in the LH2904 crash in WAW, where the A320 touched down asymmetrically (also way too late and at a much higher speed than planned due to an outdated weather report), and couldn’t deploy either spoilers or reversers before the other gear compressed, giving the crew no way to prevent overrunning the runway.
Mechanic here. You can trick most lockout systems by pulling certain circuit breakers and/or throwing certain test switches. Basically, you have to configure the aircraft so that it thinks it's on the ground, which... causes other very unsafe problems, but yeah, it can be done. We do lots of logic tests with aircraft on jacks, you'd be surprised what you can get them to do if you have a lot of specific system know-how.
SanctuaryReintegrate, wow.. impressed person here...you mean to say if you redirect or circuit those systems that you suddenly can do it? As in you take away or fool the systems that should prevent it? incredible! Thank you captain obvious...
@@Hermanos22 No problem, man. Always happy to share.
13:11 for the actual title question
thank you
lol
Thx
When I pressed the time stamp an ad pupped up
People like you need to be appreciated
Another accident with thrust reversers deployed in flight (in fact, during takeoff) was the TAM flight 402 in 1996 in Brazil. The thrust reversers kept deploying contrary to pilot's will, which in turn led the aircraft into an asymmetric thrust that led it to a stall mid takeoff.
I never realized how interesting all this stuff is, I like it.. Thanks
Once i saw the engine “open” just before landing. I was really scared. Then, I looked over thrust reverse and finally figured out what I saw. It occurred about 1-2 min before landing, and I assume the put it because of excessive landing speed (normally aircraft land on oposite direction in this airport, from land to sea direction but it was morning so I supposed there was wind in sea to land direction). The reverse thrust was applied just few seconds. Thank you for your channel, I’m not a pilot and I’m afraid of flight but thank to you I’m learning a lot :) greeting from Chile.
That would make sense for the winds in the morning to be in the landward direction though typically that is the prevailing coastal breeze every morning so it's odd that they would usually be landing the other way even in the morning. Granted landward after sunrise and seaward after sunset is the expected pattern resulting from differential heating and cooling rates of land and water but that said strictly speaking that would only be absolutely true ignoring other factors (ie if the atmosphere was always completely still otherwise). Guess it is possible that airport is in a location that is usually subjected to even stronger prevailing winds that overcome that effect. Well either that or simply observer bias if for example you usually flew in to that airport at a different time of day that would make the wind patterns common at that time of day seem more usual than they necessarily were.
I'm not fan of poodles, but I love dogs and yours seem to be a lot of fun !
Really like these videos. Thank you for your work.
I love how you have different videos than captain joe so I get to watch both channels and learn new things
I found this fascinating and informative as an aeroplane geek, but I think your dog was bored senseless 😂 I think you should re-upload with subtitles for the pooch 😂😂😂
Dog: "I'm living the dream!"
I want to be that dog when I grow up.
Really. Looks bored. Wants a scratch a snack a walk a bitch anything
Just came across your video... very interesting. Just wanted to say thank you for sharing your knowledge and I am going to check out more of your videos.
Thank you take care your self 2. As always you're simply the best instructor & personality. Thanks
The reverse thrust linked to "weight" on the landing gear was introduced, if i´m not mistaken, after the accident of a Fokker 100 aircraft - TAM airlines - in 1996, in Brazil, when the right reverse thrust opened as soon as the plane took off, causing its crash 24 seconds later...the pilots never had the chance to know what happened, once there was no alarm to this malfunction by that time. According to Northrop Grumman (engine manufacturer), this failure would happpen with a remote chance of "1: 100 billion" - well, they won the lottery as it seems - so the company thought it was unnecessary to inform the airlines and pilots about this possibility.
That accident was pretty shocking at the time, one of the deadliest in Brazil's history. I happened to live close enough to the airport at the time to see the smoke billowing from the crash. "According to Northrop Grumman (engine manufacturer), this failure would happpen with a remote chance of "1: 100 billion" " An excellent reminder that probability estimations have error bars, often very large ones.
On the C-130 Hercules you can't go into the beta range in flight. The C-130 the Navy landed on an aircraft carrier back in the 60s had the beta lock disabled so that the prop would be in reverse by the time it hit the deck. The C-17 does use its bypass thrust reversers to do high angle combat descends.
Id love to see that video
You can youtube C-17 airshow" and see it. Unfortunately, from the ground, it is a bit anti-climatic until they use the revereser to actually back up on the ground immediately after landing. Its hard to know a "steep combat approach" from a normal unless you actually fly them. In the plane however, it is a bit more exciting. Having a cargo plane that nose low with reversers out is... a different experience. C-17s are the only aircraft I know of that are built to deploy reversers in flight (and have procedures to do so). I could be wrong though... There may be some hot and spicy (chinese) or vodka (russian) flavored variants that can do it as well. I am biased... but I doubt they do it very well...
Can't go into reverse in flight on the C-130, P-3 Orion or C-2/E-2 aircraft. He's normally spot on in all of his videos, but this had me shaking my head more than a couple of times.
3:17 loved the connection to cars. Honestly makes it much eaisier to understand.
the concept of thrust reversers is very well explained.
When you said that "on a dry runway the thrust reversers don't reduce the landing distance at all", I think you confused a lot of people.
James Barca Of course the thrust reversers do work the same, it doesn't matter if the runway is wet or dry. Anti-physical bullshit.
WET OR DRY the reverse's come on..
He probably did confuse a lot of people. And he was wrong about that. He is confusing planning and safety factors with physics. Of course you don’t want to plan to need reverse thrust to stop before the end of the runway, but it’s undeniable physics that if they are applied, it will reduce the braking distance.
I remember we had 2 or 3 aborted takeoffs in a Sabena A310 out of Dakar around 1983. I was in the front seat in business class and saw the captain leaning out of the door and looking back at the port engine. I said hello and asked what was going on and he apologised for not getting us back to Brussels. he said he kept getting a reverse thrust warning light on one engine before V1. I laughingly said 'I like it here' let's just stay'. That is what happened, in fact as the crew were running out of hours and the engineers needed more time to be sure that the problem was a faulty indicator. One engine going into reverse would have been fatal. There was also a big gap between attempts in order to let the brakes cool.
Better to take a faulty light seriously, than to just conclude that all is fine.
Excellent explanation. Thanks
I hit this randomly, thought I'd be bored after a minute or two and move on, found myself totally engaged and watching the whole thing! Thanks for an interesting and informative video. (Now subscribed) Your dog is like "yeah i know all this already, when do we go the outside daddy?"
the dog is like "look at me, im so cute" * stares at the camera * "are you looking??"
A trust reverser would be if you got on the intercom before flight and said “Hello, this is uuhhhh your captain speaking, and uuuuuhhh this is my first day as a captain uuuuuhhh have a nice flight”.
Slaphappy Duplenty hahahaha 👍🏻
epic!
You very clever
I'd be able to relax under those conditions. If he said it was his first day as first officer, I'm boarding the next flight. I don't know of any crashes where it was the first officer's first day, and I don't want to learn of one through first hand experience 😂
Hahahaha
Wow I’m blown away - not the force of the reverse thrust, but didn’t expect this to be such a large topic
Thank you, nice explanations
This is an excellent introduction to reversers. Some thoughts: 1. Wheel brakes and airbrakes might best described as "effective" rather than "efficient". Reversers are efficient with regard to their reversal of available thrust, but I'm not sure what an "efficient" wheel brake would be. 2. Reversers have been used for backing jets out of the gate at rustic terminals, this might be mentioned as an introduction to foreign object ingestion.
This happened right after V-2 on a flight from Sao Paulo to Rio (in Brazil), and everyone on the twin-engined airliner died.
This was a sad accident. TAM Airlines flew a nice fleet of Fokker 100, one of them took off from São Paulo Congonhas airport. Reverser on the right engine deployed and the pilots did not have the training to overcome the situation. Auto thrust brought the lever to iddle, this would solve the problem, but the pilots did not link cause and consequence, so they forced the thurst lever to full power again, loosing control and crashing on some houses in the neighborhood.
A Brilliantly erudite discourse, thank you for taking the time to share this information, greatly enjoyable, safe journey always, best wishes
i love your videos...very informative..!!! keep it up captain...!!!
13:10 You're welcome Also, lookup Lauda Air 004
thank you very much sir!
Mentour mentions the Lauda flight at 17:28.
Old fashioned "organic" (asbestos) brake linings were efficient when cold then as they heat up they become less efficient - "fade." Full metallic brake linings on the other hand are inefficient when cold then as they heat up they become more efficient. For highway cars a compromise is made to balance between cold/hot by mixing metal "shavings" in the organic material - "semi-metallic" brake linings for more consistent brake performance.
That works for disc brakes but not for drum brakes. When heated the drums expand away from the shoes. It doesn't matter what the brake lining is of it isn't applying pressure to the opposite surface.
I've made me love the aircrafts. Your channel is inspiring. Thank you!
Perfect man. Perfect work in the world.
The dog is like: huh rejected take off? How about rejected me :(
Mark Grudt -- :-)
My dogs show up to band practice and lay out in the middle of the floor... Labs. Gun dogs. Not afraid of noise AT ALL. I have one that follows me around when I vacuum.
Mentour, you and your canine co-star do a great double act . . .
Great video. Thanks for posting this. Have a nice day.
Always nice clear explainations 😎
Correct me if i'm wrong, applying reverse thrust allows you to reduce brake's input and thus limit heat's rise. But if you apply maximum reverse thrust and maximum brake, aren't you supposed to stop faster?
There's no point in that if you stop short of the taxiway.
@@Markle2k his point is, that the guy in the video said that reverse thrust makes zero difference on a dry runway, which makes no sense.
I agree with Slyze33, applying thrust reversers on full and full brakes WILL DEFINITELY shorten the landing distance. Mentour clearly said there is no difference.. This does not compute!! Maybe we are missing something here.
@@ashwinmohan4503 the brake settings specify a rate of deceleration, so from a pilots point of view the statement is correct. The pilot won't actually decide how hard the brakes are worked he only decides how fast he wants to stop.
@@stefan514 The "guy in the video" is an instructor pilot for an airline. I agree that it wasn't phrased as well as it could or should have been, but the context is "what do we do in line operations?". This isn't a video or a channel for people who are interested in 130-0 deceleration runs with $100M aircraft for shits and giggles. The answer is, "we use reverse thrust to reduce stress on the wheel brakes" which is EXACTLY what he said in the video.
Love your accent, and the interesting information. You remind me of another Aussie who does Offroad stuff I like. Keep the videos coming. Thx
Aussie? He's from the Netherlands, or I'm a Dutchman.
Azz Kicker actually he’s Swedish
@@DavidSmith-vr1nb Probably mistook the chap for Paul Hogan
Once I was sitting in a 737 and the Pilot selected reverse thrust prior to touchdown. And I can say it was realy not comfortable. But a lot of peaple don't beleave me because they are sure that this would not be possible. So i'm glad to have your confirmation that this is indeed possible. It was an Airport with a quite short runway. (Saarbrücken Germany SCN) And we have been floating just a little bit. So I had the feeling that the pilot throwed the reversers on to get the plane on the ground. I felt some deceleration before touchdown and then the plane slammed onto the runway. Not comfortable at all. I could imagine that he was selecting reverse thrust when he thought he would touch down and then he was surprised himself to float that long. I don't know.
Sooo glad I found this channel!😃
He makes an excellent case for traveling by train.
Flying is safer than cars, buses and trains.
he just said that's its impossible to pull the handbrake mid flight .... but yeah, feel free to travel by train.
Yet trains aren't as safe as planes, you do you I guess 😂
in fact in a320 with IAE 2500 engines reverse thrust do not produce extreme noise . but CFM 56 7B in b737 Engines reverse thrust are very noisy..
We used to get yelled at if we failed to use the reversers, because the Co felt that they were replacing the brakes too often. In fact, we were encouraged to use a LOT of runway to slow down, since not every plane was equipped with reversers, and keeping the brakes from heating up extended their service life. We also had a toggle switch on the RH side of the quadrant, and could select spoilers after touchdown, and that added a little drag as well as loading up the gear.
Bruh your dog is just too cute in this video even looks at us to make sure we are listening!! 💕