How To Price Your Art - Career Advice for Artists: 8 Common Mistakes & How To Fix Them (4/8)
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👨 About the host Julien Delagrange:
Julien Delagrange is an art historian, contemporary artist, and the founder and director of CAI. Delagrange studied Science of Arts at Ghent University, Belgium, and worked for the Centre for Fine Arts (BOZAR) in Brussels, the Jan Vercruysse Foundation, the Ghent University Library, and has contributed to the international contemporary art scene as an art critic, lecturer, curator, gallery director, consultant, advisor, and as an artist. As an artist, he is represented by Galerie Sabine Bayasli in Paris, France, and Gallery Space60 in Antwerp, Belgium.
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Table of contents:
00:00 - Web series Introduction: 8 Crucial Career Advice Videos
00:29 - Video Introduction: Vision & Consistency Explained
01:23 - Major Career Mistake 4: Inconsistent Pricing
01:35 - How To Price Your Art
04:39 - How To Price Your Paintings
08:26 - Where To Discover More Information
09:04 - Outro
The series continues... Four more coming up weekly! I have been unable to answer your comments the past few weeks. It has been incredible busy the past few weeks but I promise I will find the time in the coming weeks to respond to all comments. So chat soon! All my best, Julien
Thank you so much for everything. This channel has been my art guru, giving me so much peace of mind and allowing me to continue creating and navigating my art career. After 8 months of recovering from an accident and a surgery, I am now three weeks back on track and fully inspired once again. I am grateful for your dedication to serving our generation of artists. Blessings. Vinny Olimpio
Dear Vinny Olimpio, I hope you continue to recover well and find renewed strength and energy in art. Thank you for following the channel and for your most kind words. I truly appreciate it! have a great day
This is an amazing series! I have greatly benefitted from it and hope to put it to good use for my art career!
That’s terrific. Wishing you all the best!
4:54 either there's something wrong with my arithmetic or the amounts you're saying just don't add up. An 80x100cm canvas is 8000 square cm. If you multiply that by 5 (5c per sq cm?) you get 400 and multiplying by 10 gives 800. So where does the $900-$1800 figure come from?
I think there’s some fantastic advice in here. One thing you didn’t mention however was whether gallery or agency commission was included or excluded in your pricing guidance. I always tell artists they should never undercut galleries representing them by charging minus the value of commission when selling privately - even if that’s on a ‘one off’ basis. On another note, I find it incredibly frustrating when tutors at art schools encourage their students to charge unrealistic prices, when they have no track record of professional endorsement, thus excluding both ‘big’ collectors and people who (like myself) love art but only have modest disposable incomes with which to buy. Early career is the point when we can afford them and by keeping work affordable and cultivating us, a young artist can establish their marketability. Lastly, I’d always counsel artists to ‘love their buyers’ by maintaining contact and keeping them informed about developments in their careers, be this via social media or more formal means. Unfortunately many artists are terrible at this and the result can be that as a buyer, you don’t feel valued. However, the artist has no idea when the person who purchased a drawing for €200 isn’t going to turn into someone who goes on to spend far more as their own career and income develops. Essentially a good buyer should go on a journey with the artists they admire.
Dear Chris, thank you for taking the time to write this valuable comment. First, concerning your question on the commission, these prices are commission included. The value/price of your works should always be the same, whether 50% is for the gallery or when you take the full 100%. Otherwise, you would discourage people to buy your art from galleries that are actually supporting you. 'Love their buyers' and 'a good buyer should go on a journey with the artists they admire' are not only two terrific one-liners but also terrific advice. Agreed 100%!
MY question is, why do buyers have this need to be valued? hmmm just a thought
@@stojanovich I think there’s more than just one answer to this. Firstly - and most ‘commercially’ ensuring a buyer feels their custom is respected it is just courtesy and good business practice - surely a principle common to any business transaction. By maintaining communication (if it’s wanted), the artist may help generate future purchases by the same person. There is nothing worse than the entitled artist who considers they are doing their buyers a favour by permitting them to purchase a work - or those who regard buyers as a necessary evil, belonging to a sector of society they otherwise despise. Take it from me I’ve met quite a few with that attitude! Secondly, I think many buyers are not interested in purchasing art as a commodity. They are genuinely interested in the artists’ career, development and what they are trying to express and by purchasing wish to support that. Returning the compliment is not a big ask.
As an artist I don't want to bother people with newsletter and such. I hope some day I'll get over it.
This is a great series! This video is particularly helpful to understanding the different phases in the development of a professional artist. Thank you for breaking that down, most will only speak about entry level or mega gallery level representation with no explanation of the development in between.
Dear Nico, thank you for your most kind comment. The pleasure is all mine! Have a great day
Great content, thank you - very clear and and informative.
Thank you for your kind words, the pleasure is all mine. Thank you for tuning in
Thank you so much, what a great series. 😀
Thank you so much, the pleasure is all mine!
Very helpful for me who's just starting out, thank you.
Great advice about pricing art! I don't know if you saw my suggestion from the last video, but the edits in this video made this one a lot easier to watch and was not distracting. Thank you.
Hi Tom, absoluetely! You are advice was very welcome. The videos are a lot easier to watch indeed, I appreciate your insight and feedback. Thank you for tuning in once more!
thank you this has been a big stumbling block in my art career. keep up the good work
@Van Brighouse this information is a stepping stone. not knowing how to price my work was a hinderance
The pleasure is all mine, Lori. You too, keep up the good work with your art!
Very helpful.. thanks!
The pleasure is all mine!
I have to say this is a great video. It seems very right and excepable. I really like this video.
The most informative pricing guide for a upcoming artist. I have ever heard in my life. Thank you so much, and thank the algorithms. And the spirits and the ancesthere's an God for guiding me to this. Video.
As an artist trying to emerge, I am finding your channel very informative, thank you.
Hi Stephanie, that's great to hear. Thank you for tuning in and for taking the time to write your comment. More coming soon :-)
Hello. Thanks for such valuable information. And how do the artist index numbers continue for mid-career and established artists?
Hi, great short, clear video, thanks. It's extremely important to be educated as an artist on how the market works, but without the same or higher level of education on how to collect art we are going not that far. For the market to grow and embrace more young or new talented artists we need an expanded understanding of the act of collecting. More people collecting means more space for all. Videos and information on how to collect are scarce and will be highly welcomed.
We are definetly thinking about a video series for collectors as well. Great point! We have some tools, apps and key indicators written down already. When the time comes, we will extensively discuss this topic and share it on our channel. Thank you for tuning in!
@@contemporaryartissue Great to hear there's some professional indicators and interest from galleries to share their knowledge. Can't wait! Thanks
Thank you!!!
My pleasure!
So delighted to have run across your excellent series. How would you describe the relationship between pricing photographs and pricing paintings. I know there are many factors but am interested in your spin. Thanks!
Hi there, thank you for tuning in. Great question. With photography, it all comes down to the edition of the photograph. Painting is priced higher as it is a unique work of art. However, photography prints are generally speaking priced higher than limited editions of a painting. I would argue painting an index number of 10 to 15 is perfect for a serious fine art photographer when the edition is less than 12-presumably between 4 and 12. Hope this might help!
Love this
Hi Andrew, thanks!
Love this series. Hope you address digital art sometime.
Dr. Julian thank you for sharing this valuable insightful to the point info! Wanted to also ask if the pricing (apart from the expression and ethos of the artist being present) would it also depend on the materials used for the paintings preservation ??... (ex. Linen as opposed to cotton canvas or the non-use of zink white or use of quality oil paint that would preserve well)
Dear Amaresh Pereira, thank you for tuning and for your question. The pricing will not be any different for these small differences when it comes to preservation - cotton versus linen, or zink white versus titanium white. Today, the paint supplies are all very good and durable, so the use of durable materials has become a straightforward decision. However, the quality of what type of paint you use or your surface can of course affect the overall quality of your work, thus raising the prices. Further, other things may also affect your artist index number. To start with, the expense of the production of your artworks. For instance, if you are a painter whose paintings need to be framed in a specific manner that is very cost-effective, you are allowed to up your artist index number of leveling out the investment you have made. Then there is also the notion of available works, the offer. If you are a painter that needs a lot of time to make a single artwork and you can only produce eight to ten paintings a year (not because you do not have much time to paint but because it takes over 120 working hours), then you must take a higher artist index number. If it takes you so long to make a painting, then it is most likely better to keep your painting than to sell it for a couple of bucks. I hope this might be of help! Have a great day
@@contemporaryartissue thank you very much for your detailed reply Dr Julian! Much appreciated as it actually opens ones eye beyond speculation to the reality of the practical and profesional aspect a real Gallery and associated Gallerists work on with an Artist! It is actually quite releaving to hear there is a metric that determines prices as so that at the end of the day there is no ill feeling of overpricing (by buyer) or underpricing (by Artist)! Much appreciated! Thanks a million! 🙏
Thank you Julien for this transparent, valuable and illuminating series, it’s much appreciated. When you say be discreet with prices are you talking about at all levels of an artists career or just the last one mentioned? If so how would you advise a beginner/emerging artist sell their work with regards to being discreet? Thank you, Jane
Hi Jane, great question, thank you for asking. I would advise any artist at any stage of their career to be discreet when it comes to their pricing. Actually, the same strategy galleries use is applicable to artists. Simply prepare a catalog with available works including prices for when someone would be interested. When you receive an inquiry, you can mail them 1 on 1 the catalog, and they will be the only ones who have seen your prices at that specific moment. I hope this might help you!
Thank you, much appreciated.
Nice...artlife always i2f the artist...one love...blessings
Thank you Antoine, have a great day!
Thank you! I am working my way through this series and it has been extraordinarily practical! I have followed the square inch rule here in the US. I find it problematic in many ways. I am at about $1 to $1.50 per sq. inch. It really works well for moderate sized works but getting down to the small works or much larger works it seems to return unreasonably high or unreasonably low prices and I find myself always adjusting. So I am going to try the "index" method. I have 3 questions: 1) how do you add in framing? I do a lot of works on paper and generally frame and glass them which can be costly at times. I have begun to display them unframed in some shows using small unobtrusive magnetic tacks. I have also begun to standardize using only thin black metal frames which has kept my framing more reasonable 2) In determining you index, does one include being accepted into juried shows as part of the determination? 3) How does my curation of group shows fit into the index would that be a consideration of a higher index?
Yes, I completely agree. This is where the square inch rule fails and the index number works very well. Question 1) I would advise you to always frame your works to be as professional as possible and price it as you would price a painting. The material costs do not determine the price, the quality of the artist/career of the artist does. 2) Yes, but be careful not to raise your index too high too quickly. 3) It shouldn't affect the index number. Hope this might help!
thank you for sharing. This was very insightful. My question is, what if the artworks take a long time to produce (e.g. textile based artworks). Would the pricing still be based on this?
Hi Maya, thank you for tuning in and for a great question. You could have a slightly higher index number because of the limited amount of work you can create throughout the year. However, setting your index number too high at the start of your career could result in a bad sales. So try to be careful here and don't set your index number above 20-no matter how much time it takes to create your pieces-if you don't have a solid selling history yet. Hope this might be helpful! Wishing you all the best
Some great advice here, a lot of people dont know of the existence of the artist index number and just put random prices on paintings. A big hello from a painter ;)
Hi there, thank you for tuning in and for taking the time to write this comment. We appreciate your most kind words! A big hello back!
Thank you for your videos they are very helpful. I am a new artist and I produce prints of my watercolour paintings that are significantly larger than the original at least 1 m by 1 m how would you suggest I price these limited edition prints using the index?
With limited editions, the edition itself and the dimensions are the most important. I would advise you to use an index of 2 to 4, depending on the edition. The bigger the edition, the lower the index number.
Thank you for the informative vids! Are the suggested prices before or after sellers’ (galleries or dealers) commission? From my experience, they take anywhere from 40% to 60%.
Hi Jody, thank you for tuning in and for your good question. The prices include the gallery commission. In fact, regardless of receiving just 50% or the full 100% of the realized price as an artist, the prices should always be the same because they are the correct price. Raising or lowering prices 50% from one day until the next is never right, especially towards the collectors. I hope this might be of help! Have a great day
So grateful to have found your video! You deserve the many subscribes you have. When the time is right, I would love a video on how to price film/video art, installation & sculpture pieces as an emerging/middle career artist. If you make it for your Patreon channel I would surely join.
Very interesting topic! Will definitely consider it. Thank you for following the channel and your most kind words
Thank you very much, as a beginner artist, this is very helpful! I love this channel so much! If I compute the price for my painting, must the height and width be in centimeters or in inches, I calculated with centimeters
Which countries are you selling to? Use their measurements. Simple!
At 6:08 he mentions centimetres/centimeters.
Hi! Could you please explain the correct price for paper art work ? Or it works the same ?
Great question! Works on paper are subconsciously seen as inferior in the art world and at auction. However, depending on your execution or even the presentation of the work on paper, the same rule may apply. For instance, if you mount your works onto a panel, the object quality and presence are similar to a painting now. In my own practice, I paint and create charcoal drawings (on panel or on canvas), and I price both exactly the same. However, generally speaking, with framed drawings, it is advised to use a slightly lower index (minus 5 up to minus 2), and you should be all right!
Hi, Thanks for all the great content! Is the pricing presented in USD?
The pricing is presented is USD. Wishing you all the best!
This price formula breaks down at larger sizes. Many of my customers are looking to cover large walls, so I prefer per sq inch/cm instead of adding them together
I’m really enjoying that painting on the wall behind you! Who/what is it? (Fascinating lecture, thank you!)
Hi Jo, happy to hear you like the artwork. It's in my personal collection by one of our represented artists, the terrific Tonino Mattu. Great artist, even better person!
@@contemporaryartissue thanks! True, everything is better in person.
This is really great advice! I am wondering on how to price artwork using other currency ? Is it the same method??
Hi Jul, thank you for tuning in. You can use this method to calculate your prices to Euro/Dollar, before calculating that number into your own currency. Hope this might be helpful!
Hello! These videos are helping me a lot to understand the art world and how things work. But I have a question: what we, independent artists, who creates our collector's base mostly online should do about being discreet? I mean, my passion is to create art since I was a kid and now I'm growing as an independent artist and being able to support my poetic craft full-time. But realistically, we artists need to sell our work if we don't want a side job or have a rich family to support us - specially if we didn't have a gallery invitation yet. How do you see this perspective and is it possible to mix both needs together? I like how I work now but I'd like to expand to exhibitions and galleries without needing to "hide" my online art sales or feel ashamed for showing my available works. Thank you so much!
Hi Gustavo, thank you for tuning in and following the channel. Great question, and I plan to cover the topic thoroughly in the foreseeable future with its own video. In the art world, almost all sales happen via catalogs with available works, and not with online shops. The galleries do it as well, and so should the artists. By doing so, you also have their contact information and engage in a dialogue. More to come!
'Market Standards' are modern art standards. They don't work for serious realist salon painters that spend years on each painting. The prevailing pricing system, set up to accommodate quickly-made contemporary art, breaks down for salon art. Also, the current system makes sales the standard of 'success', not artistic merit. The alternative for the salon painter is to find other means to support himself first, and then establish his reputation through art contests and exhibitions for years, finally employing an art appraisal service to establish a price.
This is a great comment.
Hello Julien, Wonderful series. I should have watched this 20 years ago! 🙂 If I'm a Canadian. How should I price my work in the US (for example)? Should I calculate the exchange? And what about the cost of shipping? Many thanks
Thank you François, it was a pleasure speaking to you!
Yes, you need to use their American measurements and usd. Id include shipping in the final price and have "free shipping" (that is an expectation in the US). Americans are pretty stuрid, you gotta speak their language. Hello from Ottawa ❤
Whose painting is that @7:10? On the left side?
How would you decide on the pricing of a bronze sculpture? There is quite a bit of information on the internet when it comes to pricing your paintings, but I can't find anything about sculptures that is remotely useful. Do you have some advice on that, by any chance?
have you considered using weight as a measurement of price? It may be helpful at least as a starting point.
How is watercolor pricing fits in this parameter, considering the smaller dimensions ex: 8x10 inches.
Great question! You can put the index approximately -5 for watercolors. Don't go too low either, it is not the material attributes determining the value but your work is!
great
Thanks!
I price my art work as fits. I do not fallow guide-line. People ask price, I give one...period
Over 99% of artists that are practically unknown will be lucky to get over $1000 for any painting, no matter how good. It happens, but it's incredibly rare. Telling beginners they can get that much sets unrealistic expectations.
Hi Thomas, I disagree. And I disagree because my experience has shown it is very feasible to sell your work at the right prices from the start-although it might take a year or perhaps two. If we focus on long-term success, and practice the things we teach here at CAI, we can enter the art world and sell our work following the market standards, which is what is advised in this video. It is easier to sell one $2.000 piece than ten $200 pieces. I have experienced this myself as an artist, seen this with the artists I represent and the artists I have advised over the years.
I've spent 32 years as a beginner level artist. Not interested in fame or wealth in the slightest. I find parting with my paintings for money to be deeply unpleasant and prefer to give my work away for free, regardless of the cost or time it took.
Catastrophe je n’ ai rien compr à cet index il faut que je prenne des notes?!
Could you please send me the website you mentionned in your vidéo ? Cant find it and you are speaking too quickly for me. I am apologize for that. Thank you in advance !
Early in his career, before he had a solo show, Jackson Pollock was so broke he traded a painting for a bag of groceries.
converting measurements to feet and inches would be helpful for your US audience.
Yes, great piece of advice. I agree!
Since you always suggest getting a gallery rather than selling anything yourself, the price would be set by the gallery not oneself. In theory.
In reality, galleries only start to intervene with your pricing later in your career when you're very much in demand. At first, you need to know your worth and they will ask you what your pricing is. Have a good one!
A complicated market for sure , such low prices for likely many years for an artist. Sad when compared to the higher pay given to most any trade person like a plumber or carpenter for a few hours of their time
A complicated market indeed. But do art to pursue lucrative purposes, otherwise, you'll be destined to fail. Pursue artistic purposes, and you might succeed and become a lucrative artist.
Your example of manual labour pay rates don't apply to arists. Art is not needed at all, whilst society can not function without skilled or even general trades workers. Art was always a hobby, you're obviously not expected to earn from it. Surely hope you didn't throw your $ away on art schools. Extremely rare artists get low pay teaching jobs, the rest have to find a profession in actual demand. Only truly connected rich artists can manage to sell fine art (mostly to their friends). So... that's the reality. Best to keep it as a hobby, or you'll always be starving and broke.
@@mikesamovarov4054 having a hobby is a modern concept for rich people without talent. Poor people don't have hobbies because poor people don't have time unless they are content with being poor.
If you're a new artist, especially one with little or no disposable income, I highly highly highly recommend you avoid galleries altogether. Most of those that take on brand new artists are financially predatory. Often these are vanity galleries in all but name. Instead, focus on building your 'brand' and reputation yourself before approaching any galleries or blindly accepting invitations.
As a rule, if you're paying- you are the customer. So, gallery better pay you. Otherwise they're the business and YOU are their customer. Simple! I'd never ever PAY to display, I expect they pay me for MY art products. Scams are easy on the artists because most are desperate to sell in oversaturated market with practically no demand. Nobody bloody buys fine art. People barely buy ikea and chinese type garbage 😂
Just sold my 1st piece in my original art style Linear Perspectivism a few days ago for $2500
Tight!
👍👍👍
Thank you for tuning in!
I have such unique art I still don’t know how to price it 🤔🤔🤔🤔
😍😍😍😍😍😍
❤️ 🙏
art is science is alchemy is an art. However, when ignorance is strength and war is peace art is put aside and commerce and economy become the merchants of Venice art the naufrage ship and the artiste a future victim on the crucifix leading to an enslaved population rather than freedom that the artist hoped for the population.
My biggest of all challanges is how to find the people who are interested in buying my art. Where do i find them? What do i say to them in my communication/ marketing/ page/ conversations to make them see how i connect with them and make them want to buy the art? How do i find my audience of target clients?
Scads of information to answer your questions: feel free to visit our online resource for artists here to set you in the right direction: www.contemporaryartissue.com/advice-for-artists/
The price of art 🎨 to only way is The Brennus way /⚔🛡/ No other way to deal with the new ROMAN EMPIRE ⚖🪐 Brennus agreed to deal with the Roman military tribune Quintus Sulpicius: he left Rome against the payment of a strong grudge. A large scale was then prepared on a square in Rome; in order to further increase the grudge, the Gauls placed false weight there. Faced with the protests of the Romans who failed to balance the balance, Brennus added to their despair by throwing his sword on the scale and uttering the words "vae victis" (woe to the defeated)😥👽🛸
You are all making this more complicated than it needs to be. What is your time worth to you?
Hi Christopher, good point! However, only the right prices following the market standard will result in good sales. Thank you for tuning in!
He makes money with these videos. Clearly, his gallery doesn't pay enough.
Décoratif?!?!!!!
My work gets good feedback but it s not decorative and no one will buy it for that purpose.
Art does not have to be decorative to sell, so don't be afraid! There is a niche for almost all types of art, including the disturbing, the haunting, or even the grotesque!
Your feedback is determined by how much art you sell, not what people SAY.
Over $10,000 tax Reasons
When this guy says "the art world", what the 'f' is he talking about? The so-called art world is very diverse and very different from place to place. For example, the art scene and its dynamics are worlds apart in Los Angeles and New York. I am an artist in Colombia and the art world here is very, very different than it is in the U.S., Europe and Asia.
Hi Edward, thank you for tuning in and for your comment. The art world certainly has differences locally. However, the high-end contemporary art world is very globalized. Especially in the US, Europe and Asia, the art world is are very similar - which are the three main continents when it comes to the contemporary art market. Have a great day. All the best, "this guy" ;-)
He means, the art gallery world, of course. Not "art world". Galleries don't represent most professional artists, who earn their living with art. Obviously most people sell directly to customers and cut out the middle man (aka galleries and third party virtual galleries like fine arts america, etsy etc). He mainly talks about physical galleries.
I would never go to art school. Art is a hobby, you can't expect to earn from it. So the degree is worthless. You will struggle to even get a pathetic teaching job 🙄 99.9999% of people don't buy and will never buy original art of art pints, aside from rare occasions of getting ikea or china made garbage.
Hi Mike, art can be a hobby, but it can also be your profession and put food on the table-it is for so many of us. You could also argue that 99% of people don't buy expensive design furniture and prefer Ikea furniture, but that doesn't mean there is no niche for it-no matter how small. Nevertheless, thank you for tuning in!
I agree that art school is a scam that destroys artists but I disagree that art is a hobby. Hobbies are for rich people who don't have talent. Poor people don't have hobbies because they need to eat and pay rent.
Thank you for the informative vids! Are the suggested prices before or after sellers’ (galleries or dealers) commission? From my experience, they take anywhere from 40% to 60%.
Hi Jody, the pleasure is all mine. Great question! These prices include the commission, regardless of it being 50%, 20% or 0%. The prices should always be the same as they determine the value of your work, not how much you should/want to earn. Otherwise, from one client to the next, you would have to double or half your prices, which is economically very unnatural, and in particular, not correct towards the collectors. Have a great day!
@@contemporaryartissue Thank you for the reply. It makes sense. Keep up with the awesome contents!
@@jodysutube Thank you, will do!
You pay gallery fees out of your profits, obviously. Customer only sees the final price, it's not their business that you have to give third party a cut because you failed to sell to this customer directly. Don't want to share your profits, cut the middle man.