Do you REALLY get enough out of your solar panel?
2023 ж. 7 Қаң.
428 884 Рет қаралды
We show you how to make your solar panel(s) more efficient.
Find us on Patreon and our website:
/ techingredients
www.techingredients.com/
We show you how to make your solar panel(s) more efficient.
Find us on Patreon and our website:
/ techingredients
www.techingredients.com/
Earlier last year i convinced my dad to let me install a DIY pool-water circulating system on his 16kW panels in Spain. Panels temps dropped from 85°C at 30°C ambient to about 45-50°C. Average power output on a cloud free day jumped about 17% in addition to eliminating the pool heater in spring and fall. Since this house is completely off-grid, the savings in diesel already made up for the $800 cost. The system is not perfect and was more of a prototype that worked too good to tear it down. Super cheap plastic sheets glued on the back of the panels with about 1cm gap and sealed on all four sides. Fittings are epoxied straight onto the plastic. Water flows in parallel through all panels, two redundant overpowered pumps are controlled by an ESP32 with Wifi for fault notification and temp measurements. Next upgrade would be a water to water heat exchanger to be able to run automotive coolant. In theory i could push air through the same pipe when pool-temps get to high, might test that this year
Nice
This is the way. In the video setup, if you lose power to the fans, or the fans fail, you'll cook the panel fast. With a water cooling loop, you still have air flow if things break. And, over a long enough timeline, something will fail. I have an 18kw system that I DIY'ed, with half mounted on a roof, half on the ground. I water cooled a 6kw section of the array and am seeing similar results. The heat is dumped into the ground. The pump is powered by a panel that was badly damaged during shipping, but still makes power.
@@ur_quainmaster7901 Not to mention how long do those small fans cost? And how much work would be involved in pulling a panel out of a large roof mounted array, to replace a fan? I think a much better way to go about this if you have the land area, is just build a ground mount array, so the panels always have free air flow around them, and makes the array itself easier to service, and also not get in the way of roof repairs. But if you don't have the land space, and/or don't want the eyesore of a huge ground mount array, then mounting on the roof and using the waste heat to heat water for a pool, showers etc, is a very good idea.
@@ur_quainmaster7901 I assume they would connect the fans across the panel with a voltage regulator in practice so that never happens, if the panel is hot it's making power.
How does this effect pool water temp in the summer?
Guys please take the time to appreciate what this channel is doing. They are producing top notch content, super educational, very well produced and they at no point read any sponsored ads, they don't ask for you to join their Patreon, they don't sell you merchandise, this is unheard of in the world we live today. So much effort goes into these videos and I'm always blown away how sincerely the content is delivered, if you haven't subscribed, just click a button real quick and forget about it, or at the very least leave a like, the value proposition is very fair.
Couldn’t agree more!
Wonder how much money they are getting from country kitchen on this video.
isn't it their job to advertise for their own patreon?
@@clown134 Certainly, but there's a link. No need to turn it onto the total begathon some other channels do.
They were supposedly going to sell their thermal paste. I put in an order and heard nothing. No communication of any kind. I eventually had to do a charge back through PayPal.
I agree this man puts out some of the best content out there for useful scientific information and self edification. I always look forward to his new content and have learned so much from his work. I dont know his name and I should but I'd like to thank him right now for all of his effort and knowledge that is so generously given to us watching. Thank you Sir! So nice to know that there are still those out there that teach just to enrich the lives of their fellow man. Bravo Sir.
I absolutely love this channel. Can't get enough of the discussions and the experiments. I'm thinking about how to apply these ideas to my practical life and as a nerd, I'm all in. But as a consumer, I'd probably just buy more solar panels to get more output rather than attempt to make them more efficient. Assuming I had the space to put them somewhere, of course.
The ONLY thing I could suggest is to run a side by side comparison of the two identical panels, one actively cooled, and one not. I'd like to see data logging and graphing the way Matthias Wandell does. Face them due south and let them run for a full 12 hours.
I’d like to see this as well. During the initial control test measurements, I wondered if the unpowered cooling system has a greater temperature than the unmodified PV panel.
Great suggestion!
@@jasonwisser3253 It's unlikely that the modified PV is hotter than the unmodified one. They receive the same number of photons that create the waste heat this modification is addressing.
Yes, and drive the fans by the produced energy off of the cooled solar panel through a buck converter set at the fans most efficient voltage. Adding any external power through a power supply does not make sense for a scientific efficiency measurement.
@@jasonwisser3253 Good point. Tough to tell. The added heatsinks on the back may have even lowered the temperature of the panel when the cooling was disabled. It's not a perfect test.
This channel is a treasure!! Such diligence is so rare on KZhead, thank you for your videos!
Agree- outside of automotive review channels, etc, this channel and Project Farm for comparisons are among my tops.
This is truly a scientific good old style educational channel. The presenter shows a rare combination of beautifull understandable English - important for foreign listeners, huge knowledge and intelligence.
He is the teacher I wish I had for applied physics in vocational school classes.
@@That_Handle this channel's really good when he sticks to science
Felix, if you like this channel, you may also like Project Farm. Same kind of diligence applied to somewhat less technical matters. Cheers!
I always appreciate how rigorous, well thought-out, and well executed your experiments and videos are. Please keep up the good work!
What I'd really like to see is fully integrated heat management in homes. One big ole heat pump, and a manifold to direct hot and cold water. Hook up your fridge, pool heater, ac, heat, solar, battery packs, everything.
I've been thinking about this as well, instead of solar panels we could install solar absorption panels and radiative sky cooling panels all over the roof, but I don't know a reliable way to toggle the panels on and off, without having to replace mechanical parts a lot
In combination with more efficiently insulated homes, the energy required to moderate the temperature of the home would drop and less panels would be needed
I think another useful tool is window treatments. I'm thinking things like: An external insulated & heat absorbent window shutter for cooler weather, and a passive cooling film for warm weather which reflects IR and heat and radiates the energy it does absorb into the sky If this kind of thing is possible it would help even more
I'm sure it would sell pretty good. So get a loan and BUILD IT..!
@@Kavukamari if you live about halfway into the southern or northern hemisphere such that sun somes in at about a 45 degrees angle, you could build and position your house such that one side of the roof is getting sunlight dead on (at midday, the sun would still cross the sky) while the other side of the roof is in perpetual darkness since the sunlight would be parallel to the other side of the roof, though the wobble of the earth might expose it to light if you aren't careful. Then you could have ideally placed and oriented photovoltaic/thermal/hybrid panels on one side of the roof, and passively radiative panels on the other side that could provide cooling power in broad daylight since they are always in the shade (though if you are trying to rejectheat to space, you'd either need to ensure nothing would radiate heat at them, or you'd need the radiative panels built as staircase structure with protectivs walls to prevent radiant heat from trees warming them up too much, or some other structure.) The closer you are to the equator the more awkward the angle on your roof you'd need, with being at the equator resulting in a flat roof with radiative panels on the walls. You'd be building a roof that peaks with a 90 degree angle, then adjusting the orientation of the roof (allowing one side to get longer/shorter than the other) such that sunlight will almost always hit on one side dead on at midday, and will always come in parallel to the panels on the other side of the roof (missing all of them). Then you would only have the issue of the "solar" side of the roof not doing anything at night. But if you cooled the panels with water (providing hot water during the day), then at night you could possibly use the panels as additional radiators (though not as efficient as the ones on the other side of the roof).
I love this guy. He takes these tiny details in his work and takes it far beyond than I can even imagine
I like what you have done to improve solar efficiency. 30 years ago I started adding solar pool heating strip to the back of panels. It has 10 pipes moulded in a rubber strip. Usually glued to the roof to heat a pool, it is easy to serpentine it across a row of panels 3 times and slitting it at the turn-rounds. A small 12 panel driving a 12v solar HW-heating pump will auto speed-control according to the sun on the panel and thus be self compensating. Air cooling is poor compared to water and more than one fan is a big no, no, as one fan will pull through the others. You can always dump the heat into a pool or a heat pump via a car radiator, so its not necessarily wasted.
literally the best tech guy on youtube, i dare anyone to prove me wrong
You took the words right out of my mouth. Just when I think of something to ask, he answers it like he was reading my mind.
some people just call it being thorough. it's amazing how capitalism has trained us to think that simply being thorough is somehow going above and beyond. it's also known as doing something right
You know, If every school kid had a teacher like you in every grade we would be in such amazing shape as a nation!
Are you saying that purple hair isn't interested in educating students, except about assorted perversions?
@@hxhdfjifzirstc894 that is one aspect for sure
Indeed. The best I ever got was a few episodes of Watch Mr. Wizard on TV when I was a kid.
We can simplify this even further. His objective approach to thinking about the world makes him an excellent role model. Children need strong role models who figure out solutions to problems. I teach Grade 1 and I think we should be very aware that the upcoming generation doesn't seem to be interested in projects or hobbies such as these (most parents of these children don't seem to have any interesting hobbies either). This has nothing to do with school either. It seems most people now prefer to watch rather than to do (just as we are doing on this KZhead video). We need to be engaging children in doing things, rather than watching things. That's my opinion at least. Tech Ingredients does a great job of trying to engage the viewer in practical science (look how engaged the comment section is in every video). My hope is that people leave these KZhead videos and are inspired to figure out problems on their own too.
Instead you have drag queen story hour. Well done.
I love what you're doing with this channel. Bringing really clear and understandable important information to a wide audience. Big time Kudos!
I continue to be impressed by the editing on these videos especially for the intros. And how long the takes are, it's not easy to do that many lines in a row! Each of these videos is a masterclass, kudos to you and to the budding scientists and engineers you are inspiring.
1:05 No one really does that anymore... For monocrystalline solar cells like the one you're holding, you start with a doped silicon wafer. On the front side, you would texture the surface and typically heavily dope it with phosphorus and then throw on like 80 nm of Silicon Nitride for passivation and antireflection. On the back you would just screen print an aluminum rich paste for the rear contact (Ag on the front). After the printing, you send it into a belt furnace (glorified pizza oven) at 700-800 C which burns off the organic binders in the pastes and causes the metal to contact the wafer. On the back, the aluminum actually forms a eutectic alloy with silicon that assists carrier collection. Let me know if you want more deets.
Interesting. Things change so quickly I couldn't make a youtube video ever without fear of posts like this lol
Sounds like someone working in panel fabbing
His explanation made it sound like a diode lol
@@sf4137 We make cells lol.
@@yun-z Yeah, interesting thing is thin film silicon solar cells fromm like the 90s used to kinda be made like that.
30 years ago I was living in my RV in the Colorado mountains for a couple of years and getting my electrical power from PV panels. Plus I was spending my days designing a MPPT charge controller, so I spent a whole lot of time thinking about PV panels. You covered everything I experimented with, as well as contemplated regarding thermal management and optimization with the exception of reflectors in low light situations. And the use of reflectors in normal sun was something you have covered in the past. So well done. Thanks for educating many people regarding PV's. While PV cell technology is improving every day, the fundamental fact is that nothing beats the basic physics and applications knowledge for getting the most out of PV's, and you are providing it.
Colorful Colorado, all that sunshine, helps improve the output 🌞
is it time to say 'kids these days have it easy!'?=)
@@morkovija old solar panels, PWM charge controllers, hundreds of Lbs of lead acid batteries, incandescent lights...
Frankly, I don't think a 10 minute test (not to mention with active tracking) shows ANYTHING. All we really "learned" is what we already knew, which is that fans move air.
@@tarstarkusz We learned that at that small scale, we can gain more output than we are taking out. We learned it is feasible enough to try further, longer, and maybe more costly scenarios.
Thank you AGAIN for taking a complex issue and making it completely understandable. Your hard work isn't overlooked or unappreciated. 😎👍🏼
Fantastic content! Would love to see more on solar efficiency in future videos. Please make some content on tying it all together with something like heat pumps. This channel is one of the best things on YT.
I have 400watts of panels mounted on the top of my motorhome. I was unaware that the heat hurts them like that. I will absolutely be making covers for them for when the motorhome is in storage now. we hit 45 C in the summer where I live. I bet those things are hitting 100 or more in the blazing sun. And if they aren't even doing anything I better have them covered! Thank you for the video! I love learning new stuff!
The panels will likely outlive the Motorhome so perhaps cover the entire vehicle?!
Typically they design these with a 30-50% excess margin built in due to the fact that they do degrade slowly over time. The biggest help will be adding extra batteries to such a system. If your RV can fit an extra 4 or 8 batteries, it's often well worth it versus having to replace the panels in a decade or so.
i still have a hard time understanding why this channel doesnt have 6 million + subscribers already. no doubt one of my favorite channels of all time.
Yes it's high quality output every drop and the person who makes and does the demonstrations is such a good speaker and character. I like the guy and i don't actually know him, he is personable
Because ppl need to think when watching the videos and.ppl don't like that, hence they use TikTok and the like, easier entertainment
I agree. This well presented content uses the scientific method and rational thinking for its conclusions. No hype, no BS. He takes the viewer on a logical journey with a payoff in the end. Just look around you at the average person and it's easy to conclude that they are looking for something else. Keep up the good work, we'll be watching!
No g string butt shaking 😮
@@chiphill4856 No matter how much I like this channel, the content doesn't make my day in the same way as waching a video of a cat falling down the stairs...
Word class methodology. Showing the meters clearly and continuously is virtually unseen on youtube. Thanks! love how realistic and well thought the analysis is.
Thank you for excellent explanation for a total newbie. This is so rarely seen this days - technical topics explained with easy to get language without excessive jargon. Thank you for sharing your knowledge and experience!!! Keep on doing!
I really like what you guys are doing in terms of your production quality!! IMO Arguably the best content and articulation of such on KZhead. Keep up the awesome work guys!!
I really love the idea of thermal electric combined solar panels. You can have water run through the panels, cooling them down increasing their efficiency, and use that to heat your pool, or shower water, (with a heatpump) Thermal pvt panels are slowly happening, and although slightly more expensive, can be especially useful on a small roof where more cheap panels are not possible.
Thermal electric panels are also called hybrid panels in some markets. I think they're a great idea. Presumably you could use a heat exchanger with them and use that warmth to pre warm your running hot water for shower etc.
@@felixokeefe exactly, i have seen a dutch company do that. Nice part is too that its perfectly quiet instead of a typical condensor.
Love it! In my 4KW PV array in upstate New York, I was distraught in winter when an inch of snow dropped output to zero. I disconnected the array from the Controller, and fed pulsating DC from a 240 volt bridge rectifier to the panels. In an hour, enough of the snow melted to begin self-defrosting. Reconnected the controller and produced power the rest of the day instead of zero power. Wish that switching was an option of the controller! Could easily be fully automatic.
Love this- absolutely bs-free experimental set-up- both as a learning exercise and more importantly a platform for playing around yourself. These types of things ALWAYS seem to leave out critical details (as you alluded to with the Rice paper on graphene) that are obvious [only] when you actually get 'burned'.
Love this channel. The way he explains everything definitely inspires people to understand these technologies and encourage others to pursue such sciences.
Love this type of detailed testing an explaining. Keep it up. Testing all the things I’ve wanted to test but haven’t been able to because of time and money constraints.
Please keep doing what you are doing. This channel is incredible. Information Galore! A wealth of knowledge!
Thanks for doing the work and answering the important questions 👍
Professor, great video. I love to learn, even at 68 yrs old. I have to say, you’re my go to channel if I want to learn about your projects. This project has really excited me. Thanks for taking your valuable time to teach us.
Thank you for another great video and thank you for using (mostly) metric units. This is a really useful info as I'm currently working on a PV system myself.
Well done engineering analysis and looked into all sorts of operational upgrades and even offered an equipment source !!! Great Work !!!
Thank you for the solar panel video. I've been in the process of installing, designing, modifying my solar power system, batteries included. Please make more solar power videos and solar panel videos. I enjoy how you give examples and instructions on how your test are performed. You are a smart man.
Here in Australia we sometimes have forced air ventilation of roof spaces to reduce the heat gain through the ceiling, so in those cases you could even just redirect that existing airflow to behind the panels for an even greater efficiency gain and very low capital outlay. Likewise with air conditioners, commercial buildings usually have about 0.7 air changes per hour, so all that chilled air being discarded could be blown behind the panels.
If I heard correctly you gained 5 watts while losing 3 watts. This was in full sun with zero clouds. If it was cloudy you still lose 3 watts in cooling fans, but do you still gain 5 watts? I’m guessing no. Great video. I like the use of the square casting shadow to find perfect angle
He should use a voltage reading to decide to use the cooler. Pretty easy
I see one more gap in the measurments. The system in the back of the pannel possibly might keep panel hotter than without it. Maybe without the whole equipment, the max temperature might be lower, and then he is not gaining 5 watts but for example 4 watts.
@@wrobewo2 It's almost guaranteed that enclosing the panel back will limit convective cooling, and thus produce higher panel temperatures when the fan is off. The fundamental point he makes about active cooling is still likely valid. As he points out, the very small scale of the test also means that the cost of cooling is unrealistic. The video is great, but a more complete exploration of a full scale solar system would be informative.
You could have it set as an automation to turn on only during hot days etc.
@@enkrypt3d or with a thermister.
Thank you very much for all your videos, I really appreciate what you all have done. Keep it and and thank you again, take care and have a positively wonderful journey 🙏🏾🧘🏾♂️🔥✌🏾😇
You are great!! I love your way of presenting information.
How about using the 'waste' heat for drying the dessicant in your alternative air conditioner? I would love to see you do that as a video (including analysis of the overall system power consumption, etc.).
@The Tired Horizon on the contrary, it should be quite hot... ;-)
@TheTiredHorizon or standing at the outlet of the air conditioner, inside. :)
Heat is energy.. so it feels bad just letting it out without use. Could be used for something.. from heating house, heat storage, water or anything
@The Tired Horizon Ye, bi-metal tech is going the right way. But efficiency is still low
@@frosty6960 our guy is testing things . But is kinda still shortsighted . Or inefficient .
When I installed my Australian arrays I was tempted by the Dualsun panels using a water loop to dump heat into the 50K liter pool as a heat sink. I think you’ve inspired me to revisit active cooling for the next array to compare performance directly. Maybe I’ll find room for a sunnovate panel too.
Try plumbing the heat exchanger that's connected to an accumulator, similar to an AC or refrigerator set up. This should let you concentrate the heat/waste energy to be converted to something more usable, perhaps captured from a peltier stack.
Sorry if I repeated your thoughts yours sounds good.
DualSun could conceivably work if you could make the hot water output 30°C and not have a legionnaires risk.
Excellent ! Thank you for sharing this with such detail, I have solar panels and had no idea of the heat issue. Good work
informative, thank you ... did not know or suspect the drop in efficiency is so great
On my RV I have considered installing a copper spiral on the back of the panel to act as a hot water maker. After seeing your results I imagine it would also be worthwhile as a secondary benefit of cooling the panel and improving efficiency. On an RV or boat everything should have at least 2 uses/benefits.
If you do a copper spiral, you should try to do something to soak up the extra heat as evenly as possible. If other portions of the panel are still super hot, those portions may be a weak link that prevents you from being able to tap into a lot of the extra efficiency you'd gain by cooling the parts in contact with the copper coil. Maybe get a flat sheet of copper that is the same size as the back of your solar panel, then use some plumbing solder to tack down your copper coil to the sheet. Use some thermal grease or compound of some sort between the panel and the copper sheet, as well as between the copper sheet and the copper coil. That way the solder is only needed for securing the coil in a few places.
@@HeyChickens sheet of copper?!?!?!? are you ready to pull out a loan???
@@MR-nl8xr I would certainly NOT buy new copper. I would find an old solar water heater panel that someone was scrapping and buy it from them cheap. A lot of them have a full sheet of fairly thick copper inside that the tubing was soldered to. The solder usually is about oxidized off by the time someone scraps their solar panel, so it shouldn't be too hard to get it off so that you can run your own tubing pattern. The scrap value of a 4'x10' sheet of copper is well under $300.
@@HeyChickens says way under 300 like thats not some ones entire paycheck, and more than most peoples paycheck after bills..
@@neon_Nomad I feel ya, but unfortunately almost all solar water heating or PV panels and accessories are not cheap. It is what it is.
This is by far the best channel on youtube. Your science communication skills are on the same level as Carl Sagan, and the production quality is amazing. These videos provide a very important public service, you and your team deserve to be recognized for what you do. Your videos inspired me to get back into design and sustainable engineering. Thank you!
Oh boy I was trying to figger out who he reminded me of.....You nailed it !
What a pleasure to watch and learn. Thank you!
Excellent video. Thank you so much for the work you do!
Always enjoy your practical experiments and analysis, very interested to see net gain in relatively temperate climates, I’ve been thinking about this for some time but hadn’t considered your approach for homemade heatsink which had made the capital cost prohibitive from my perspective. I do think the heat recovery point you made at the end makes the cost benefit case more attractive even for a domestic Instalation if you can divert that heat through and existing air source heat pump and into your hot water (in theory this would increase efficiency/reduce cost of producing hot water). Nice job 👍👍👍
Currently my panels here in the Northeast are putting out 8kW. I want to add more panels/efficiency for those days when we see no sun. Thanks for the videos, they're very informative.
Awesome job, fantastic testing and technique
KZheadr Robert Murray Smith has an episode that shows how to greatly increase the output of solar cells. One involves amber filters and focusing devices. You should look at the video. It's episode 1664.
As always a well made video with proper physiks. Living in an area with moderate temperaturs I'm currently leaning more towards just adding more panels instead of optimizing them for peak power. I have issues with not having enough power in the winter and low lights (panels are cold there anyway). As I can't store the power long enough to be usefull. In the summer the panels produce more than enough power already. And the roof is not full yet ;). Also moving parts are not what I like to have (but that is just me). I clearly see areas with limited space and enough storage to benefit exactly from what you tried there.
That really helpful for me. I have to learn new thing here. thank you for your effort doing this experiment for everyone.
You remain one of my favorite tech-hero over time .
It would be interesting to see the effect of just the heat sink fins and an open back vs the closed back and fans. I feel like the convective flow over the fins might be enough to tip the energy balance toward the passive design without fans.
My thought too. Additionally you minimize cost, you don't steal any power and you omit any moving parts that would need service and eventually fail.
Passive cooling has a better chance than active cooling. Good fans are freakin expensive, I bet you'd try to save the solar panels by adding fans and end up spending on ton replacing burnt up fans, when you could have just added more panels. Solar panels are too cheap these days to make this stuff make sense. Put as many panels as you can fit on your roof and be done with it, unless you're willing to lower your ROI because it's pet project or whatever.
I spent hours designing a passive solar tracking system that should add 20% to daily solar harvesting, but cost 20-25% additional for the array. In the end, adding 20% more panels with no moving parts was the wiser solution.
Open air natural convection cooling may be a workable thing in higher latitudes, but in lower latitudes, the sun may be directly overhead (or further, towards the poles), and the panels may lie flat. There's no real possibility of natural convection for a panel laying flat - forced convection would be a must-have. And cooling would be even more critical. For much of summer, the sun is actually a few degrees north of us in Phoenix, AZ (about 33 deg North latitude). Temperatures (in the shade) typically exceed 110°F (43°C) from 11AM to 5PM.
@@brettd5884 Non-tracking, fixed angle systems are set halfway between the summer and winter solstice angles which is fairly close to the local latitude. So Phoenix, AZ would have a fixed angle of roughly 33 degrees.
We could also automate the fans with temperature control sensors. They can be programmed to a specific temperature and as soon as it starts to cool the fans shutoff. I wasn't even aware that too much heat reduces the efficiency of the panels. I live in a hot and arid zone and we get lots of sunlight most of the year, so acquiring energy from the free nuclear fusion from above is a no brainer. Great video as always!
Cooler is better, but at some point the fans may not pay for themselves efficiency-wise. Trying to find that point could be interesting.
Yes, it's called a bi-metallic strip or thermostat.... And it is "programmed" by adjusting the physical clearance between the contacts...
Thanks so much for the great engineering videos and the detailed explanations. As an engineer myself, I always learn quite a bit from your videos.
watching without skipping ads! very informative! ill try this...
We typically just add a little more solar :) Also, it seems like your aluminum backing is trapping hot air causing your starting temperature to be higher than it would with an open back and angled panel.
It doesn't. The uncovered panel is still better than the stock panel.
Man, you made my day. I've always wondered what the difference is if you add active cooling. We don't have panels yet, but now I have a better idea of what to do about efficiency when we do get them. Thank you.
You can buy a 310W panel for $120. ($0.39 per watt of panel.) Just be real, and buy a an extra 10W of panel for $3.90 instear of spending countless dollars on cooling your panels for 3.5W. Not to mention the noise and failures. Meh.
Great video, always so professional and calm
This channel is so awesome & important..cheers 🎉
I wonder if just the heat sinking passively would have relevance 🤔. Of course active would prove better but if passive heat sinking did have a significant gain then it may prove to be useful in certain applications. Would you guys be interested in doing a follow up with just the heatsinks in a passive setup? Just to show hard results and relevance. And thank you btw for your content!
came here to post that same question. Hopefully they answer it. Passive costs zero watts.
Based on what I've seen in PC hardware, this would be really difficult to pull off. Would love to see TI give it a go though.
This content is incredible. Thanks guys!
I love the channel! This father and son work hard and it's educational. Thank you very much.
Our pleasure!
Water heating type of these panels are pretty popular in the Mediterranean. We had one installed about 15 years ago. The water was so warm that I'd had to introduce cold water at the combination tap.
I’d like to see a few more iterations on this idea. I’d love to see temps and wattage of a panel by itself. Then another with the back panel where the fans are mounted to see if passively cooling with just fins had any effect. A modification I’d be interested in seeing would be to use boxed fins with air directed through, and also water directed through fully boxed radiator fins to see if water could carry away more heat than active air cooling. Not sure if a pump could match the efficiency of simple fans. I may try to get a similar setup to try experimenting. I just got panels installed on my roof and would love to extend their lives and make them more efficient.
Thank you, this was very enlighting you could say.
Good suggestion, very precise. I will definitely try this out on my solar panel installation.
When my wife and I went to Taos NM in 2017 to spend some time learning about Earthships, I suggested that they do this without fans to try to improve their panels. It is always breezy out there and I figured making and attaching fins to the backs of the panels would help dissipate the heat and boost the panel efficiency/increase the longevity. Glad to know it works... too bad they aren't interested in testing and gathering hard data to prove anything.
Earthships? You mean the tweaker houses made out of garbage?
It would be really cool to see the effects of the air cooling with the solar concentrators installed on the same panel. The temp differential between ambient and the peaked heat from the concentrated panel load may have much higher yields on performance!
I was thinking that from the start of the video!
Thank you for being thorough, I had considered the inefficiency, now I know thanks to you again...
lol. I love this channel. the first 2 minutes are unapologetically technical, yet doesn't talk down to the audience at all.
Great video. I self installed a DIY 16kw grid tie system last year. Learned a ton, and the cold temperature performance of my panels is incredible. Any way we can cool them is definitely worth exploring. However, the former engineer in me says that the net benefit of a system like in this video is not going to pay for itself in terms of additional generation and panel longevity vs just adding a couple more panels. However, a swamp cooling type system might be something worth exploring both for solar panels and air conditioning systems.
In New Zealand we get slightly more than the rated panel output even if the panel is not sun perpendicular. Chinese panels are so cheap, less than US$0.5 per watt that shortfalls are usually fixed with more panels space allowing. My panels are less upright so mounting is usually parallel to the roof surface. We frequently have a cool breeze (trade winds) so a gap of 150mm (6 inches) is enough to keep the panels quite cool, the little heat sinks would help too. My ten year experience is that more panels is cheaper than mppt etc even just relying on rain for cleaning, my cleaning them properly added only a few percent. In Australia (our neighbour) areas that lost their long overhead grid cables in the bush fires are installing turn-key solar, lithium and BUG systems. The market is for cheap usable ex EV batteries, they are now rare. I use 60% ex Nissan leaf batteries without problems and charge my 2011 Leaf off the system.
It would be fun to see this combined with overclocking panels with reflectors. How much can you squeeze from a small array??
Not a dedicated reflector but Out here in new mexico i know a guy has a ground mounted pergola type solar setup hoisted a good 20 feet in the air and the entire roof line is angled. He used bifacial panels and then lined the area around the panels with white gravel and white cement under the pergola. Said he saw a noticable increase in production once he putthe rocks and cement down.
Small ultimate power plant with small servos to keep it in 90... just as a flex .... to show that is possible.....
Very illuminating. People always forget about the heat and the heavy metals. Thanks for sharing.
your a smart man love you sharing you knowledge with us
For some reason I have an urge to visit the Country Kitchen. 🧐
Welcome to morning news shows
Good to see you back making bangers after what happened!
Banger. Lol. I see what ya did there.
It boggles my brain how good the content is on your channel. I'm super happy I ended up finding it!
So are we!
Thank you. That was very informative and really well done.
This takes me back to the video about using reflectors to boost the output from a single solar panel, since one big issue with doing so was that exposing the panel to over twice the amount of sunlight would probably fry it, this seems like it would be a great way to reach the top rated power output even on less than ideal conditions
I saw one panel that had one tiny cell, with huge heat sink and a focusing lens to concentrate sunlight.
Thanks for sharing your thoughts, ideas and videos. Just finished watching a video about passive cooling using aerogel, and hydrogel combined into a evaporative radiant cooler, if only there was a mixer button to combine the two videos and see what the results would be. 😂 wishing you and your family the best. BTW have you ever mentioned what your professional background is, I’ve been quietly speculating to my self and still stuck somewhere between college professor or medical doctor.
Amazing content, thank you so much for all that you are doing and creating
Many thanks for an excellently presented and thought out explanation. Thank you - Sir I applaud your work.
MTBF would be my primary argument against adding dc/dc voltage regulators, fans and heat sinking. I'd be curious to see the performance uplift of just adding the heatsink without the backplate and fans. Either way, excellent bit of content as always!
Love all the engineering and scientific principles demonstrated in your videos. Very accessible to young people.
I take a break but always click when a video comes up. Your work and production quality are superb.
This is great what you have done. You do such an excellent job explain8ng the engineering behind what you are doing. I get an answer to the question and get to learn the solution process. I have a mechanical engineering degree and loved this. Great work.
Great video and channel! I'd be curious to add into the wear and tear of fans, replacements etc into the total life cycle cost. Depending on the setup storm's may not make having small computer fans very beneficial. Still, if a company looks closely at this like the one example you gave I'm sure they can find better fan designs that are more storm resistant instead of off the shelf computer fans.
Always solid content and we are getting it from a first rate technical instructor. I believe I have watched all but 2-3 of your presentations. Congrats ~ Allan J
I have learned something watching this channel since the beginning, whatever comes out of this man's mouth you can take it to the bank.i love learning and I appreciate this channel and all that you share with us.
I appreciate that
This is fascinating! I well knew that heat reduces power output, but this video really illustrates how dramatically this works. Thank you!
Glad to see you back in action! Please take this as positive feedback… you might want to run your audio through a low pass filter to remove the low frequencies that the wind or moving around is causing. Watching you video on my surround sound system causes my house to shake! Thank you. Keep them coming!
In general the gain could be lowered a little bit, with headphones on it sounds like he's in my head! 😄
Maybe watch his videos through a low pass filter to remove the low frequencies that the wind or moving around is causing.
@@sidthetech7623 haha. I’ll get one just for his channel. ;p
I thought the same.
@@MakersAcres I have specialized audio equipment configurations for each video I watch within my facility that hosts many pre-calibrated rooms with specific environment controlled tech custom tuned for each of these videos... all equipped with a deluxe LazyBoy recliner and haptic suit for maximum enjoyment. Only the finest. ; )
This is an idea that has crossed my mind it's cool to know it works. I would set it up in such a way that it has a dual purpose, the 2nd purpose would be to actually heat the panels in winter. Have wire running that can have a current sent in and the heat would be trapped inside the cavity and help melt the snow off. You'd only really activate this after freezing rain or really sticky snow that is too hard to physically remove.
Not necessary... solar panels will self thaw very well. Just the heavy snow needs brushed off. They get warm like an electric blanket, and the snow will be gone. I would save it for my electric blanket. If I got a lot of snow I'd put the panels in a pole barn. Or a better location. Or make an eyebrow that speeds up the air going over the panels so that the snow is blown a few feet away, instead of on the panel. It actually works. At 5 AM, showing 24.5 volts on the twenty big marine battery bank.
@@davidpotter9462 In my experience I always need to take the snow off. Sometimes what also happens is if we get freezing rain or wet snow it will create a nasty crust, which is really hard to remove. My rule of thumb is whatever i have on my car I will have on my solar panels. So I go out with a long brush to remove it as soon as I can. But sometimes don't get around to it for a few days. When I start building on my off grid property I will probably mount them vertical so it will be less of an issue but here at home options are very limited.
solid theory and application...thanks for the data
Wish I could subscribe more than once, I’ve been following for a couple years and I’ve really enjoyed watching the channel grow
I really appreciate your videos. You actually build and test the things I just sit around and think about forever stuck in a state of analysis paralysis. I was surprized yesterday how warm the panels are when the ambient air near freezing and the aluminum frame of the panel (black, shoulda been light) is comfortably warm. I just got them this fall and really wonder what the temp of that frame is going to be in August? The cats sure seem to like to hang out behind them on a chilly morning. One thing not mentioned is the reasonably expected lifespan of the fan motors. If you installed 100 of those fans, how many of them would not have seized bearings in 10 years? I wonder if electrostatically charging the air with HV, moving air with no moving parts might be a better option? Dyson fan for clues. I think closed circuit liquid cooling is where it is at, much easier to utilize that collected heat elsewhere which could be considerable on many sq ft of panels. After watching your solar water heater/PV drag race, I'm sure you are readily aware of the heat potential, well over half the radiant energy caught by that PV panel becomes heat at the panel that must be convected or radiated or in the case of liquid cooling, conducted away. You would have a hybrid solar water heater/PV that makes flowing electrons too! Maybe use a sheet of coroplast(styrene) or polycarbonate greenhouse panel to make a heat exchanger that can be glued on the back face of the panel, would be pretty easy to fashion multiple circuits with and exacto and a soldering iron if that seemed beneficial. If you used silane for glue it could be easily reversible to not mess up your panel if it doesnt work out. Coroplast can be purchased with a decent layer of thermal insulation sandwiched on, and greenhouse panels can be purchased that have 2 or 3 layers deep for insulation purposes. Thanks for doing and sharing what you learned.
I had a similar thought about the fans needing to be replaced multiple times through the panel lifetime. There's also the added cost of the heat fins and back panels. Also I don't believe the Dyson fans are electrostatic. They have a fan in the base and the airflow is directed up to the manifold in the top section. But I like the idea of cooling with no moving parts.
@@CheddarKungPao Thanks for the correction on Dyson fan.
I have computer fans stacked about an arm's length from early 00 and the fans still work well. Most of these have ran through at least 1 if not 2 or 3 versions of Windows. The fans outlasted the system being relevant in most scenarios. I am not positive to the max life of solar cells but you could not buy any rated past 10yrs before recently if that has even changed. The clear coating on the cells will have to be redone if they are even still functionally efficient enough to run as a modern system after 10yrs of improvements to material research. Plan the purchase I guess for a summary and look at the lifespans on your investments in cells.
@@rallyfeind You are way off on solar cells. Panels last basically forever and 25 year warranties guaranteeing 90%+ performance after 25 years are industry standard. But most panels are still working just fine after 30+ years. They have glass covering them, not clear coat. Sure sometimes electric fans last forever, electric motors are very simple and tend to have very little wear in operation. But you're missing the point that these would be outside and exposed to the elements and running constantly 24/7 in hot weather. Then you add in that there will need to be 3 per panel, and with my solar array that would be 84 fans. I'd be replacing fans pretty regularly instead of just having a maintenance free array. I think the extra money and effort would be better spent on a few additional panels. And this simple calculation is why nobody really bothers with active cooling of solar arrays.
@@CheddarKungPao Neat. You spent way to much effort to explain something has changed. You didn't tell me how or why like you know only that you are aware of numbers as they stand today. Thank you for the update to the standards without any insights beyond saying that I was outdated in info. Good talk though. Oh can you send me a link for hail-proof glass they are using because that is something I would love to get since I live in a tornado heavy area and hail is inevitable not just possible.
Great video! Very well explained and interesting topic, a small correction in the manufacturing. The vast majority of solar cells today are made by starting with a P-type silicon wafer, and then doping that from the outside by hot gas diffusion, greating the P-N junction. The front and back electrical contacts are usually applied as a solder paste, and then baked in an oven. On the back, an aluminium paste is also applied to create a very heavily P-doped layer, which help reduce carrier recombination, and increases the efficiency. It is usually only 2nd and 3rd gen solar cells that start with a substrate, and then deposit the thinner layers on top, as this is a much more expensive process.
Where's the solar powered factory that makes solar panels? Where's the research paper?
I would love for there to be a solar powered solar cell manufacturer, but as far as I know there isn't any of those around. Producing solar cells is a huge multistep process, usually different companies specialize in different areas. Which research paper are you looking for?
Looking for attention...
I'm binge watching your channel. Thanks for this. ❤
Hope you enjoy!
@@TechIngredients I am. Fantastic work you are doing. Thank you again. ❤
Wonderful demonstration, thanks a lot!
I really enjoy these energy videos. I've been way ahead of you on this so far. If you store the extracted heat in an underground insulated tank/pool, you're offsetting your home heating costs in the winter, while chilling your fluid for panel cooling in the summer. You can also run a closed loop ethylene glycol loop into an aquifer for a few hundred dollars and only run it's pump when ambient temps are over 30-35F. It takes very little energy to move fluid in a loop.
But have you done it?
Well done, as always! 👏👍