Sport BJJ Is Self-Defense BJJ
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VIDEO DESCRIPTION
Rick Ellis Discusses the subject of sport Jiu Jitsu vs. self defense Jiu Jitsu.
I've stressed for years that one of the biggest benefits for self defense from BJJ is the stress inoculation. Most people simply aren't used to fighting, and we "fight" five+ minute rounds over and over again multiple times a week. Staying calm and not panicking is HUGE.
Had a situation at my school where I had to restrain a kid who had taken pcp and was having a psychotic episode. He was a wrestler, taller than me but about my weight and I just body locked him and carried him away from other people. He was pushing my face but it's nothing I hadn't felt before a million times. BJJ definitely made that possible.
Except you are not "fighting'. the training is good, that's why its a "Training method', but turning a training method into an ego based 'end all be all" is simply silly. Randori ( aka "rolling") is a training method that removes strikes (the most common and arguably most dangerous street attacks (unarmed) you are going to face) so that you can relax and roll full speed and not worry about getting injured. It is a format that allows you to stay calm and be able to think about technique and strategy, but it is not 'fighting, is not meant to be and cant be a replacement for. Every "old school" BJJ practitioner knew this. At some point, when the 'soft" randori training has ingrained the reflexes you can add the "hard" training that has (at some point) full contact trike training (standing and in the guard especially). this is a critical part of BJJ training, and I hate to break all the sport apologist 's hearts..if you are not doing strike defence training you are simple not doing Brazilian jiu-jitsu. If you love sport, go for it ..but stop lying to the public that this is the same BJJ that Royce Gracie and others took the Martial arts world by storm.
@@JohnJohnson-pq4qz I agree with you. Unfortunately, at the same time, he’s very hard to find a school that teaches those. Most schools transition to sports jujitsu because this is where the money is
@@George-ri6vg Thats for sure, but I wonder if there really is more money in it. There must be for people who run large tournaments but for everyone else who struggles to keep their school open, why would they not want to be more relevant to the public? And the biggest players who must be hugely profitable and Renner and Ryron who put a heavy emphasis on self-defense. So I think self-defense BJJ can be more lucrative and that most of these sport schools are simply not very rational and are hung up on some flaky ego game. Look what happened to Judo.
@@JohnJohnson-pq4qz good point. It seems to me that MMA schools have the best value for the practitioner. Never trained in MMA but that’s what I get out of everything that I am seeing .
Had a 5th degree Japanese jiu jutsu instructor come to our gym a while back. Tough dude. Nice enough but huge chip on his shoulder, strangely adamant that he would have no problem managing anyone, just wanted some validation. Soooo.. we took it easy on him. … tapped by everyone including white belts. Ego was so huge we never saw him again.
Most modern JJJ is so far removed from the fighting arts of 150 years ago, it’s almost useless for fighting. I practiced hapkido for over a decade, and like Rick suggests here, scenario-based training is only one part of the puzzle. No sparring = no ability to apply what you know in real time.
@@MichaelMassie I studied Hapkido, too, but we sparred every class. Usually it was situational, but it was definitely better than nothing.
@@MichaelMassieTrained some Hapkido when I did TKD. Is it better than nothing? Ofc. Will an average wrestler, judoka, or jiu jitsu player easily beat it? Definitely.
I liked how Jocko Willink put it when speaking with Rener Gracie he essentially said everything works up until a certain point however with grappling you are used to people gabbing you and that comfort level can determine the outcome of a fight.
There are bad habits that bother me in "Sport Jiu Jitsu". For example, because there is no slamming people wilfully put themselves in absurd slammable positions. This sort of thing reminds me of a saying my father had "Hes using the letter of the law to defeat the spirit of the law".
IMHO, sports BJJ can be a very effective self defense martial art provided that the practitioner switches to a combat mindset during confrontation.
I don’t think anyone trained in bjj would approach a violent encounter like a friendly roll.
I agree and during my rolls I avoid things like pulling guard that I feel won't be good to do in a fight
First off, I have never seen anyone doing berimbolos or De la Riva in the UFC.I think that each person should be clear about what kind of skills they want to learn, and what is its purpose. I started practicing self defense with my Mestre in a private class, and as I progressed, the level of chaos increased, and I am very satisfied with what I have achieved. With this type of training I have realized that my objective was to learn to defend myself. Now I feel much calmer when I practice the sporting aspect of BJJ
Sport BJJ doesn't start standup with striking either. Or add striking to guard passes.
This is what I’ve always criticized about self defense classes, it just doesn’t prepare you for the craziness of an actual physical encounter or fight. Very well said!
I don't think that was the conclusion he was making in this video. IMO you are very close but also slightly missed it. I'd recommend watching it again. I watched it 3 times already in case I was wrong, but I don't think so Anyways, have fun doing whatever BJJ you choose. It's all awesome 👍
@@willb169 that is my conclusion that I’ve always had, I don’t mean to mock self defense bjj but I just think it’s just slightly unrealistic.
@@lukes8557 cool 👍
@@lukes8557Sports BJJ is unrealistic in a self defense situation. Sports BJJ doesn't prepare you for defending punches or kicks. Sports BJJ is fun to do but self defense BJJ in my opinion is more important if you are getting into BJJ to train for self defense
@@JEFFMAN90KZhead search Tristar gym ground and pound experiment. Did you not hear that whole part of the video? What do you have to say about that experiment?
I have trained for 13 years and have instructor certifications from Gracie University/Academy as well as Pedro Sauer Brazilian Jiu-Jitsu Association. I agree with your basic point in regards that effectiveness comes from sparring or repeated drilling. I would argue that while a sport practitioner will be able to defend themselves, they will likely take more damage because they are less accustomed to defending strikes. As an older practitioner (61) my sport game isn't nearly as comprehensive as my younger training partners but like you, my defense is pretty decent.
You only need 6 months of striking defense for bjj
@@jrock2019 The problem is many BJJ schools never give their students those six months.
I did GJJ for 8 years. I agree with a lot of what YOU said. However I think it can be easily Fulfilled just by doing a little MMA. When you getting hit in the face it makes a big difference on your jiu-jitsu game.
Having studied Gracie Jiu Jtsu for several years, I find this one of the most insightful videos regarding sport and self defense JJ. They are two sides of the same coin.
Really good insight into how your previous Japanese JuJitsu experience didn't really help when it came to a live situation. I did Japanese JuJitsu for a few years back when I was in college, and, like you, we never sparred live. Although I enjoyed the art, it definitely left something to be desired. 20 years later I'm looking to get into BJJ (yes in my 40s), and it's good to know at least a little bit of what to expect. Love your videos.
Do it! Have the right mindset, check your ego at the door, and you'll never go back. Started at 43 and going at it two years later.
You make very valid points. I love your channel and content. We like to throw gloves on so we can train punching range on the ground. Keeps everyone honest with the range of a fight. We do not do that every time but enough to know that punches and elbows are indeed there. Keep up the great content.
Finally a good argument. It'd been a hot minute since I've agreed with ya!. To add to your argument how many videos are there of jujitsu guys controlling their opponents and being safe. How many times have you delt with a spazzy white belt? How many times have you seen inexperienced guys get gassed super fast due to inefficiency? There's definitely something to be said about maintaining top position that said like it's not hard to sweep untrained people.
This is such a great analogy dude. Great video.
Absolutely agree, self defense is best approached as a mindset that you use on top of your sport experiences, and not as some set of skills that you've never had to implement under pressure.
I've been bouncing around between kickboxing, FMA, Judo, and Japanese Jiu-Jitsu, unsure of which one I was going to commit to because I had the stereotypical perspective of guard pulling and butt scooting. What you spoke of, especially in the last few minutes, finally sold me on BJJ. going to be seething because all this time I spent sampling other martial arts could have been spent getting my first stripe, but thank you very much for this video.
Don't seeth. I'm sure there will be some transfer of skills or movements that you gained from the other sports! Can't beat yourself for what you thought was the best decision with the information you had at the time
I love your videos I am a 55 yr old in bjj and it applies very much to me. I was a police officer for 30yrs in UK working London and Birmingham which due to a lot of my service being unarmed I used grappling a lot. I 100 percent agree chaos and adrenalin and fear are great levellers. If you roll constantly you will react accordingly it toughen you up physically and mentally and gives you a massive advantage over untrained people. Keep up the good work and the focus on us okder practitioners.
rick i love your wisdom man keep it up !
Really well stated! Thanks for this!
Fantastic perspective
Very well put.
This is a great, nuanced video
This is what makes wrestlers great fighters.Thousands upon thousands of live rounds!
and their strategy and tactics being similar if not the same as MMA fighters and self defense guys. Get up, get on top, stay on top rather than fishing for subs from the bottom at the cost of getting beat up.
I began martial arts (Kyokushin) in 93’, Muay Thai and western boxing since 2001 and bjj since 2010 and started at a Rickson Gracie school, lots of defending strikes into takedowns and what to do if you’re stuck in half guard with a larger opponent and they begin to strike you, how to defend against multiple attackers or different self defense scenarios. But now all the schools I go to only practice pure sport bjj, it’s all about points and sweeps and people who don’t know $h!t about fighting or self defense are achieving brown and black belt within 4-6 years of training, yet when I invite them to do sparring on weekends, the moment I throw a jab, it’s over, they flinch, close eyes, fall backwards, turtle up, or drop from a light body shot, when I throw a strike from inside their guard, it’s over, they literally revert back to white belt. They are clueless in terms of overall self defense capability yet hold black belts and spend %99 of their training in the gi, relying on butt scooting, pulling out the lapel, wrapping it around a leg, going inverted, basically every tactic that’s NEVER going to work against someone who is actually trained and prepared to deal with that stuff and also will most likely not work against a resisting attacker in a street fight. It terrifies me to see how many brown and black belts I can spank around with just my jab or side kick and how all the point scoring bjj “don’t get dq’d by doing that” crap does absolutely nothing for them when the pressure is on. It’s becoming more and more difficult to find a bjj school that teaches actual self defense bij rather than focusing on 2 points for this, 4 points for that, since all that crap goes out the window even for an experienced black belt if they face a blue belt with a decent striking background. I understand someone with sport bjj training is better prepared to defend themselves than someone with zero training but it also instills a false sense of ability in people and gives jiujitsu a bad look when one school teaches legit jiujitsu that will actually save your life and another school teaches sport jiujitsu that will win you a competition via point advantage yet the point guy is higher ranked than the combat guy, when in fact combat guy can destroy point guys entire game plan with a simple slap to the face.
Absolutely spot on.
I totally agree with the concept of effectivness in implementing technique in chaotic situation vs efficiency gained through drilling with a compliant buddy, i.e. untested dogma. I heard of some well known bjj schools, not to name names, where even positional sparring isnt allowed till blue belt. And they are all about self defense! Holy shit!
There is definite value in learning and ongoing training in the “self defense” techniques, there is a lot value in “sport ju jitsu” techniques with the proper mindset. Both are important. I personally, as an old guy newbie, wish to train both and develop a system that works well for me. I also train weapons-based systems because you should not neglect that either.
Love it!
Also want to add that the unified MMA rules nerfed the guard so that kicking became illegal. Just mix-up some foot in the bicep control to some foot to the face in a basic sleeve-and-collar guard. Nothing works to open up a sweep opportunity like good ol' kick to the face.
Spot on.
I train in a “self-defence” focused bjj school. I think both sports and self defence jiujitsu is important. It’s just jiujitsu. We spar all the time once we finish the beginners program. My instructor teaches both sports and self defence jiujitsu in the advance program. And we have a few sessions a week that we put on gloves and just punch the hell out of each other. We got tuned to the different ranges that we are in, with gloves or no gloves on. For example, in the half guard, we typically don’t take the underhook anymore because they don’t offer punch protection. So I’m just saying, many self defence school also don’t get the credit they deserve because that’s what most sports school doesn’t know we train sports stuff too. Just the focus for self defence is right at the beginning for the beginner. Past the first 8 months, it’s gloves off for sparring. I’m talking about heel hooks, twisters, knee bars even for white belts. And you don’t see these crazy techniques once gloves are on twice a week. So cheers!
I agree with everything you say, and I use that "guard pull doesn't work" counter all the time. I think this is a debate of context. The only thing, imo, that separates "sport" and "self-defense" BJJ is HOW you train. Do you try to get the takedown, go top control and dominate, or do you pull guard or into ankle locks and expose your balls, your face etc. Any BJJ practitioner will do well against someone untrained and empty handed, but those are the two differences imo. When you practice your sparring, are you aware of your eyes/balls/head position (relative to kicks and punches), or do you tunnel vision into getting some submission that doesn't need to take those threats into account? As far as choreographed "self-defense" training, yah that never works. BJJ, of any focus, will be better than playing pretend street fight.
I don't disagree. All of the techniques you need are in the grappling arts. The difference is really one of where you focus your attention. I can't remember who said it, (I think it was Ryan Hoover, but might have been Icy Mike) "Self-defense is just another rule-set." Because I'm mainly interested in self-defense, I don't like training any techniques that leave their hands free and unmonitored. The possibilities of them going for a weapon is too great. The best heel hook in the world is a loser if it lets him stab you in the crotch. In a similar vein, given the choice to control his left arm or his right, I'm playing the odds and going right all day long. I've found the best time to focus on this sort of stuff is when you're rolling with someone who normally wouldn't give you much of a challenge, so you have the bandwidth to think about "What if he went for a knife? What if he has a friend? How would I protect my gun?" etc etc.
I'm new in jujitsu, and I'm getting crushed in practice, so I feel that it can be effective in the streets under the right circumstances. Like he said that strategy wasn't part of this video, but I personally wouldn't advocate going to the ground on purpose in the streets due to the fact that it could be multiple opponents and tools can also be employed. With that being said, it's up to the practitioner to adapt the skills to the situation.
Another counterpoint to consider : Most people out there that are potential students are busy and aren’t potential tournament champions much less world class competitors. Their aim with BJJ is self defense. I’m 42. I am still in good shape and exercise regularly but I have seven children and a busy professional career. These days I only train at home with my kids, but I would love to change that in the near future. I also like shooting guns, but don’t get to do that very much either. I plan to start shooting again in the near future. To save on limited resources (time and $), I feel that a good portion of my shooting time should be from a distance of 7 feet, since this is the average distance of a self-defense encounter with a firearm as per the FBI. I would love to go to a place where I can do some 1000 yard shots or take a class where I can do some moving and shooting with a rifle, but the bread-and-butter of my training should be drawing my pistol and hitting a target somewhere in that 7 - 10 ft distance given that I will probably only shoot once per month. I see a parallel between this situation and BJJ. A 25-year-old unmarried gym rat probably has everything covered from a self defense standpoint with how often he or she is able to train. To me this whole issue and debate should be argued with the busy, middle-aged, mom or dad in mind.
I’d say todays new age of Jiu Jitsu, especially implementing wrestling etc is far superior to the old school variations
Yes in terms of competition and MMA, which on average involves younger, more athletic people. Those folks are probably going to be fine regardless of their school’s focus. MMA and competitive grappling selects for folks who are already physically superior on average. Don’t give me an exception because exceptions help prove the rule. You combine that athletic ability with training and that gives you a person that doesn’t have to question their ability to defend themself, no matter what the school focus is: SD or sport. This is one reason why it doesn’t make sense to me to use what we see at the highest level as some sort of evidence within this debate. This is also why I think the question in this issue should be: what is the best training approach for a 50 year old soccer mom who hasn’t been competitive since high school basketball, who has a very limited amount of time and energy to train, and whose goal is to be able to get out of a jam unscathed and not necessarily to defeat someone outright, which are often two very different things.
@@jims512soccer mom should just pack
@jrock2019 - I agree but that’s not the complete answer
I agree totally
It's a state of mind, really.
I agree that any form of Jiu Jitsu is effective against an untrained person. Obviously I wouldn't pull guard on concrete but if I do enter into a physical altercation and I do end up on my back, at least I have a means of protecting myself and be able to defend myself
‘Sport Jiu Jitsu doesn’t allow strikes - so it can’t be good for the street’ … ‘Boxing doesn’t allow head-buts, elbows and knees - so it can’t be good for the street’ … ‘Kickboxing doesn’t allow for weapons attacks or multiple attackers - so it can’t be good for the street’. These are some of the most illogical and ignorant conclusions I have ever heard. Yes - Wrestling, Jiu Jitsu, Boxing, Kickboxing, Judo, and Shooting all have a sporting face; but this is where the real technical development actually takes place. It is also where people acquire ‘actual’ skills; skills they can bring to bear in ‘live’ encounters. At the end of the day, we acquire skill via ‘training’; actual training, against non-compliant opponents. The best athletes, operators and professionals train; they train hard and they train regularly. Imagine taking the view that regular swimming competitions weren’t the right approach for ‘real world swimming’ because in the real world, the water is dirty, there are waves and there are creatures living in that water, etc. So here’s the question? How much training are we likely to do in dirty water with the odd shark and a tidal rip dragging us out to sea? Not much. We build our skills in the pool. We use them in the sea. One day, a day that may never come, we might use them to survive a 'rip tide' or 'boating accident'. Maybe. Get in that pool. The ‘reality’ part of training should be attended to (for professional warfare, law enforcement, operator, OST, door-work, self defence, etc) - of course. But even if we add ‘specific scenario training’ and tailor those scenarios to our specific environmentally-driven needs, we still need to put the lions share (90% as a guess) of our training into actual skill acquisition.
Totally agree
It's funny, recently I told some of my relatives I started BJJ and they asked "Oh so it's self-defense practice?" and I started by saying no, it's a combat sport because we practice BJJ within the BJJ rules and we don't practice against kicks, punches, bites, knives etc. But then I continued explaining exactly what you explained here. That even though it doesn't really fit the criteria of self-defense, it's still probably the best system for self defence (apart from MMA) .
It's not the best art but it's focused on live full resistance sparring and it's safe enough that you can do that everyday Striking arts or MMA are more effective in the street or when attacked without warning but you can't safely fight everyday and can only light spar once or twice a week
(Gracie) Jiu-Jitsu implements striking throughout the curriculum.
My black belt coach which was under Royler Gracie for 10 years. Got his black belt from him. My first day all he taught my how to avoid strikes, distance, someone bullrushes, even if a guy mounting me trying to punch me he taught me to deal with that too. At the time I had anxiety, don't want to talk to people, no self confidence, does not engage in a conflict on the job. Etc etc. You guys been there. So what I did since I was and my bottom as I can be as a human being. I signed up and paid 1 year of membership in my credit card. My coach was like good youre taking this seriously. All I knew was boxing at my garage on a bag learning from KZhead boxing coaches. So I was not interested in kickboxing. I focus on jiu jitsu. 3 times a week I was in the gym. 5 months later my coach told me to compete at age 36 as a white belt. Green belt and blue belt. Then I got my purple belt. But I told my coach thanks for everything but I'm moving to back to my home country Philippines. All my anxiety, no confidence, doubts, has gone away. I can talk now with any people soldiers, cops, FBI lol. Because they do bjj too. Now I just don't care anymore. If a guy has knife, a sword I just know what to do. Bjj is all about avoiding street fights. It's self defense of it comes to it. I did heard a news that some gunman was robbing a bus full of people but there was a black belt inside the bus. He tried to stop the robber but he got shot and died. I kinda wonder what tactics he used and I think he was very old in his 60s maybe I'm not sure. In 1995 I wish bjj went mainstream. Because if I was purple belt in my and college. I could have ask any girl I like. And those girls that like me back then I didn't engage with them even they wanted me to ask them out or give their numbers to me. But it's done. I have no regrets I'm only 42 I still got half a life to live. This time I have powers. Just like jacko says doing bjj is like having super powers. I know it's true. As for my social anxiety is gone. Although I'm an intervert I willing and listen to people I talk to. I started bjj because I went to the Amazon Jungle in Peru Iquitos so I can cure my ailments. The plant medicine I drank showed me a glimpse of Anderson Silva fighting in a cage. I didn't even know back in 2016 his a current champion called UFC. I just saw a highlight of him fighting & I wasn't interested on MMA. Took me a while what that medicine was telling me. But I finally figured it out in 2 months. I googled Anderson Silva and it says his a black belt in BJJ. At the time I'm already 36 years old there no way I'm fighting in cage. So basically the Ayahuasca brew told me to do Jiu Jitsu to get rid of my ailments. Boy the plant was right.
I took the style of jujitsu you mentioned in a past video and for respect of them/us I'll refrain from using their name here. I loved so much about that art with the same exception you mention, basically without pressure testing i could never stop wondering how much i could really use it in a real street fight. Well, I luckily haven't had a real world fight since I began that style, but i did walk into a BJJ school, sign up and try to use a little of what i knew. I did find it helped a little. I was clumsy with what i tried like escaping being mounted, breaking closed guard, pulling guard, finding arm locks, weak triangles, weak kimuras, fairly decent size control, fair side control escapes, a little ankle control... Still haven't been able to use a single wrist lock but I'll eventually find one, I'm sure. Anyways, i absolutely love BJJ primarily for its pressure testing. I struggle dislike the community constantly arguing self defense BJJ vs sport BJJ. They are both fantastic and for the most part should be learning some aspect of both with one exception of people only training for competition completely avoiding self defense BJJ, but there's still nothing wrong probably with them taking an occasional seminar to have at least a little familiarity of being punched in the face or maybe even defending a little against a dirty wrestler. Anyways, i absolutely love your channel and i am constantly loving listening and learning from your channel. Just want to say thanks a lot for that, signed the white belt BJJ guy that takes BJJ leaning more self defense but also holds tremendous respect for those of us that lean more sport BJJ or more judo self defense or sport. I really just love grappling. Much respect to you 👍
Till the ground and pound!
Weapons (including fingernails, car keys, sharp corners of the environment) could quickly invalidate most of the intuitions built up in jiujitsu, particularly intuitions around distance and where to put your head and limbs. I’d be curious your perspective on weapons in this context … I wholeheartedly agree with all your points in this video, and have had similar experiences coming from a traditional Japanese budo martial art into jiujitsu. But I like to hold out hope that the intuitions around distance and weapons from that traditional budo would be useful if weapons were an issue.
So, I know it’s only anecdotal, but I am a blue belt in my late thirties, and I have beaten two friends who were both bigger than me in a submission/grappling/wrestling match at the same time. 2 on 1 and I still subbed them both, and they both also served Army 11 Bravo. That’s not a flex, it’s just that bjj actually works.
To me as a karateka who has 17 years to my understanding any jujutsu you learn or train or educate works both ways. Your coach should be training you on both. I have a blue belt in jujutsu and we train both. I feel so comfortable if I get to ground I can Survive that fight.
Good video. I do agree that sparring and by relation, competition, grant the student irreplaceable layers of experience and grit. That said, what is your take on schools (the Gracie Academy/University by example) that have their students learn a technique, drill, then apply gradual levels of resistance to that technique (including careful punching with gloves) …culminating with mixing it in with a variety of related techniques or all techniques that student knows (“rolling”)? It seems like you are arguing against a sub par IMPLEMENTATION of that hypothetical school’s preferred emphasis as opposed to the emphasis itself.
Saying sport bjj isn’t self defence is like saying sport boxing or sport Mauy Thai isn’t self defence!
I started bjj with no experience of anything, and i'm in my 50's. At my class i was just chucked in with everyone else and taught a move, which i couldnt do. We watched and practiced. Every lesson i've been to has been that, everyone knows more than me and i cant get my head round it. I spoke to a long standing pti with a blackbelt martial arts history, because i'd been so frustrated that i couldnt learn anything that i cried in the lesson (no one saw), and he said "you need to experience fighting, and once you u derstand fighting, the movements they teach you will make more sense." So i bought some floor mats and he comes round mine and fights me. Its judo and wrestling based. I've thankfully never had a fight in my life and i had NO idea what to do. I didnt understand that i could fight back, or use my arms, or anything, i didnt know how it felt to be brave enough to fight back and how my body would feel, but because we spar and he taught me how to take someone down, i now feel much more confident about returning to the club and i'm hoping the moves make sense. I sweat like i have never swat before, and my hair! My fitness is improving session by session. So i agree, only sparing has helped me.
You deal with everything less punches in the face , headbuts knees and elbows... the gracie schools train that and we sparr two times a week with gloves for punching while the other uses jiujitsu...its fun for who has the gloves , not so much for the one uses jiujitsu 😅😅😅
@Rick Ellis. Did you train DZR? If so, how would you adjust the training method using same DZR techniques to be effective in BJJ?
When I trained DZR, at least at that dojo, we didn't spar. So the adjustment I would make is to add randori. Of course if you did that, DZR would end up resembling a cross between Judo and BJJ.
@@TheArtofSkill I agree. That’s what I did when I taught DZR. I used just the positional escapes and finished with the DZR techniques on the ground.
Completely agree everyone thinks they know what to do until they have a roll 🤣
I respect both sides of this argument. But I agree with you... And the same can be applied to high school and college wrestlers. It’s a hardcore down and dirty combat sport that drills hours and hours of mat sparring. Even high school wrestlers can destroy people and grown men that don’t train anything…. It only makes sense.. I’ve seen a high school wrestler ball up a guy in a one-on-one. And the fitness and athleticism you get from it is unparalleled..
Umm just a question I'm 39 recovering addict been training 4 years sober nearly 3. I did nothing physical until jiu-jitsu and I get smashed still. Even by low white belts I have 4 stripes. I stopped comparing myself to others but it's hard as I think k I should do better. However I have been inconsistent my whole journey I've had a go at 4 comps. Nationals in 8 weeks not sure if I should compete as never done well. Is it OK that I don't care so much about belt or getting smashed and have this mindset now of at least I got a good exercise in i was 110kgs now 85kgs.and keeps me sober like i have no ego but i dont know where self pride comes into this at the moment im just trying to get consistent after a bad injury. But man when I'm at jiu-jitsu it's like 90 minutes of peace in my head.
People train for different reasons. If health benefits and peace of mind is why you train, then that’s great.
That was Kano Sensei genius...Randori. And that realisation was over 100 years ago and some martial arts still think they can fight without fight 🤦🏼♂️ Randori gives your techniques bite.
On the street in a self-defence situation what would you say is the best position?
The audio and video are a little off. Otherwise, great content as usual.
Where is your academy located?
The thing I don’t understand about the argument is if for example the ibjjf rule set was made to give points to the person that has a position in which can cause damage, Sweeps and takedowns also giving points aswell. How is the argument that sport jiu jitsu doesn’t prepare you for the streets.
spar with strikes on a weekly basis is key
agreed. sport JJ is designed to fight against sport JJ practitioners, not someone swinging at your head while you invert.
I agree your sport guards”can be” effective if left no choice and find yourself on your back. But I’d never openly put myself there. None of the fights I’ve been In or seen have been 1-1 or fair. Last thing you want is to get soccer kicked in the head, on the ground playing worm, spider or lasso guard. lol Get it to the ground and stay on top. At all costs
is sports jiu jitsu better than training nothing for self defense? probably. is it better than lets say wrestling, judo, muay thai or other well respected arts? hard to say but i would argue that focusing on standing up with for example some sprawling and striking skills and other grappling-training/defenses might be better even though i like training bjj. the pressure testing is like you say very important! andrew wiltse said in a video that mma is probably one of the best sports for self defense and i think he has a point. in my view the martial art with the least restrictions/rules in sparring must be better for self defense where there are so many factors to consider. a great guard is nice but when a third person kicks you in the head while you are busy on the ground and have no one to cover your back i would rather stay on my feet and mobile at any cost.
Think street, train sport.. because punches, head butts.. plus hidden weapons must be part training.. because if not a principal mindset in training, it will not be on the streets!
Depends how you train and compete. If you have the mma or wrestler's mindset of breaking your opponent down and keeping him down and from bottom your priorities are 1) keep safe from strikes 2) Build up and break opponent down to get on top or just to get back to your feet, with sweeps and submissions being opportunistic options. But unfortunately that's not the typical mindset in sport bjj, many have the mindset of "ohh im a guard player, im a bottom player, I prefer playing bottom, closed guard bottom is the dominant position." etc. etc. and the way bjj is commonly taught reinforces this. The formula is simple, 1) break him down 2) keep him down 3) finish (optional).
A couple of issues. You are drawing generalizations about JJJ practitioners from your personal experience. There are many schools and JJJ practitioners that are highly skilled and will be very competitive against BJJ guys. BJJ schools that emphasize sport applications often don't spar skills needed for self defense namely, basic striking techniques, takedowns, and takedown defense. GJJ contains these elements.
@@eltonblack9421 ??? when did I mention JJJ? The subject is about BJJ and my opinions that many share with guys like Craig jones, Priit Mihkelson, etc. The Video is about Sport BJJ is Self Defense which I highly disagree with.
@@peekaboojujitsoo525 you started by talking about your Japanese Jujitsu experience lacking sparring etc.. That's where you spoke about JJJ
@@eltonblack9421 What are you talking about bro?? This isnt my video lmao. Not once did i talk about Japanese Jiu Jitsu.
@@eltonblack9421 And also Japanese Jujutsu is terrible.
(Closest simulation possible :plus: repetition) :divided by: risk of injury :equals: effectiveness. Why is this not painfully obvious by now?
You make a strong argument, supported by your experience starting out in BJJ with a Japanese Jiu Jitsu background. As many people know, your experience echoes what happened when Judo was first introduced in competition against traditional jiu jitsu. Judo was superior for the same reasons you mention about BJJ. That said, I think that if you only train sport jiu jitsu you are unlikely to be mentally prepared for no rules combat. Your example at the end where some strikers were brought in to test BJJ doesn't sell it for me. Those BJJ guys knew what they were in for and of course did their best. But if you've never dealt with being hit with raw aggression, when it happens unexpectedly, my bet is that someone who has only ever trained in BBJ is going to forget their sweeps and just cover up. Maybe they'll win in the end, but I think a lot of the skills will go out the window.
Each class start with self defense but it's not the priority where I train and I think that's unfortunant. We do some bear hug defense or headlock escape with a partner who offers little resistant - as described. Then we go right into the "moves of the day." Yes, some, many, maybe even most of these techniques would also be valuable in a self defense situation but I think Helio would be rolling over in his grave if he knew how most schools operate. Many academies don't do any dedicated self defense training.
what do you think the chans is that the everage treetfighter waches mma what do you think the chanse is the average treetfighter knows some martal arts what so you thinj the chanse is that a streetfighter is not alone and his friends want to bang as well? how did you train against punches and kicks? (btw imho japanese jiu jitsu is the better selfdefens martal arts)
It seems always assumed that a BJJ / Judo / wrestling guy will be stuck in their lane if attacked outside the gym. Why? If I take in top position on the street, the bottom player will be defending elbow strikes to the face until we work it out, not americanas.
The self defense example of a bear hug is about base and breaking posture. I think you could have argue either way (sport and self defense or vice versus) because you have spoke of things that are specific to self defense (slow, sensitivity, etc) and not sport (fast, athleticism, etc.). The bottom line is if you are not covering legal aspects, weapons, multiple threats, you are not learning self defense regardless what it is called sport or self defense.
I don't know any Gracie Academy that does not pressure test its self defense techniques after learning them. And their students also do well in the sports aspect. Gracie's introduced jiu-jitsu with striking involved. There is no striking in ibjjf. If a person never got punched in the face its something different when trying to just grapple.
My previous BJJ gym hates sport BJJ. I never understood why they're so against it.
They all hate each other the more spiritual ones hate the most but guaranteed even if they claim they want to learn and improve taking what works and ignoring the rest they will rant about how evil the other dojo or gym is. This i the way
There was a black belt in that was choked by a two handed bart Simpson choke. Unfortunately the guy only trained in sport
Didn't gary get ktfo going for leg lock??? Bad example lol.
I'm a retired LEO, and I've been doing Sport BJJ for 13 yrs, and during the years of working the beat, Sport BJJ saved my butt more than once! and now that I'm on my retirement, I still practicing and trust Sport BJJ.
Follow the Gracie’s . They have it all organized.
I feel like the only thing lacking in the video (it was a good video don't get me wrong) was the aspect of competition being even more crazy than regular sparring. In regular sparring you're not really "supposed to" break your partner's arm or wrist for example, but it can happen. In a competition, it would be very rational to assume the other guy will break you and hurt you if you make any mistake. You might be taken out of the mats on a stretcher! BJJ competitions also often result in an adrenaline dump, which is a pretty realistic aspect of training fighting skills for the real world. Even in a BJJ gym, that's rarely if ever going to happen.
Well obviously any type or training is gonna better prepare you for a real situation. A wrestler in highschool is in same boat. But that doesn’t mean the way ppl are practicing is practical and realistic to a real life encounter
It certainly is better than nothing at all. There are certain aspects of sport IMO that are not realistic in a real life situation. But to say sport is useless is ridiculous. Self defense's advantage is there are WAY fewer steps in movement than in sport. But sport is still the same thing, essentially...just with more steps. My frustration with sport many moons ago was that there was no BASICS class. You were thrown in with the intermediates to try and absorb something WAY above your rank. Then when you rolled, people would just yell DO SOMETHING and I could just shrug. I wasn't taught the basics to be able to DO anything. I've studied four different styles over thirty years and NO effective style throws a new person in to learn intermediate or advanced techniques without learning the basics first.
The not so obvious part is, "should sport BJJ schools train rolling with mma gloves?"
As much as I agree with this, I have to disagree. I believe self defense concepts should be atleast mentioned in certain positions/submissions at sport jiu jitsu schools because there has been knock outs in combat jiu jitsu and I've witnessed first hand jiu jitsu guys get knocked out by getting slammed on concrete by doing triangles or armbars, knocked out by trying leg locks or even getting ko'd by headbutts by holding someone in their guard. Also having a "striker" vs jiujitsu guy go at it with rules is waaay different than doing sport jiujitsu against some drunk coked out guy that has some understanding of fighting on the streets. Also having those thousands of rounds of sparring gets people too complacent by not worrying about strikes those thousands of rounds. Sorry if this is all over the place but basically all I'm saying is sport jiujitsu schools should atleast mention the potential dangers of certain positions in a street confrontation and not just focus on points and winning tournaments.
No sparring is ridiculous, but not even considering the reality of striking ever is equally ridiculous. If in your "self defense bjj" you don't spar, you won't be able to defend yourself. If in your "sport bjj" you don't at least train how to defend punches from the guard (or anywhere), you probably won't either. Good thing those things are not mutually exclusive. You can easily take the training methodologies of sport bjj and apply them to self-defense training. And I also think there are plenty of well-known schools that do that, not sure why the video simply assumses that self-defense bjj training does not have sparring. You can look up something like "gracie street sparring" or similar and there will be plenty of videos.
And regarding the ground and pound experiment, it's not true that the BJJ guys didn't get hit. I just started watchting that video again, and Gordon Ryan literally got hit with a good right hand from the guard in the first few seconds. Obviously they are doing light contact so nothing happened and they just continued the round, but in reality, one punch like that can mean lights out already. And if I remember correctly, Garry Tonon got knocked out in One FC because he went for a leglock without defending from punches.
Would I rather be in an altercation knowing or not knowing sport BJJ? Knowing. And this is actually proven DAILY when untrained, bigger, stronger men are humbled at BJJ gyms worldwide.
All true but the sports bjj player needs to know how to effectively start on their feet, manage distance, avoid the knockout, and take the opp down. Untrained fighters are not going for grips; they're trying to hurt you, plain and simple.
I think a lot of the argument against sport BJJ is the "bad habits" develop on the ground if you are on the bottom when it comes to strikes. But let's be real in a street fight, the average person is going to be on top raining punches down on a sport bjj practitioner? I don't think so. Go to any academy and you will see how it plays out when an untrained person gets on the mat. Who is tropically on top? The same applies to a wrestler who never trains BJJ, they are not just going to have their way with a skilled sport bjj person. I think a lot of people watch MMA and forget that it's still a sport with *rules*. Most importantly a lot of the naysayers don't train and believe they will do as they please with a BJJ practitioner. I do think sport BJJ academies need to allow some strikes on the ground. It doesn't not need to be full on strikes, but let's say you have 5 min rounds, allow no more than 5 strikes. This should create an awareness for the guy on the bottom to stay safe.
No way
Self defense bjj is just a Gracie marketing ploy
I have to ask one serious question: Have you ever been in a real , serious 'fight" in your life? Because to people that have , the answers to your questions are self evident and a little odd. There is also a "specificity principle" that is involved in the development of "skills'. Boxing training, for example, in an active and fluid hard core sport responding to real attacks...except they get the Sh&^% beat out of them a lot in MMA (and the street)- because the attacks they are so fluid and sensitive too...-are not the attacks they are going to face in MMA or the street- Do I really have to explain this to people? If you have never really been in a real fight (in which your safety and possibly your life was on the line) then I guess the answer is "yes". The "rolling' training is good, that's why its a "Training method', but turning a training method into an ego based 'end all be all" is simply silly. Randori ( aka "rolling") is a training method that removes strikes (the most common and arguably most dangerous street attacks (unarmed) you are going to face) so that you can relax and roll full speed and not worry about getting injured. It is a format that allows you to stay calm and be able to think about technique and strategy, but it is not 'fighting" or 'self-defense", is not meant to be and cant be a replacement for. Every "old school" BJJ practitioner knew this.You say you have faced every thing in rolling...except what any punk can do to you in a street attack. Old school BJJ understood this...why dont you? At some point, when the 'soft" randori training has ingrained the reflexes, sensitivity etc you can add the "hard" training- that has (at some point) full contact strike training (standing and in the guard especially). This was and is a critical part of real BJJ training, and I hate to break all the sport apologist 's hearts..if you are not doing strike defence training you are simply not doing Brazilian jiu-jitsu. It is not something optional that maybe you can 'add" later. It is the highest level of the skill development pyramid. And no one could or should get a Black Belt without doing it, in the old school. If you love sport, go for it ..but stop lying to the public that this is the same BJJ that Royce Gracie and others took the Martial arts world by storm with. Stop using entry level 'grabs and holds' defences to exemplify "self-defense". And grabs and holds defences are related to the standing randori ( Judo type freestyle) that is also an important part of the system and I am sure you are also not doing but have an excuse for that. The simple barometer for 'effectiveness' is not difficult, its : are you doing full contact strike defences? (since that is the most common attacks you are going to realistically face). According to some of the Gracie family 80% of current sport techniques will not work against strikes (so aside from some strange "rock, paper, scissors' ego game ...why are they doing it??). Honestly, I really wonder what motivates this weird sport apologist philosophy? How hard is it to integrate proper strike defence training a couple times a week? (or are sport apologist really that scared to get hit or afraid their fantasy world will crumble-the same accusation they level against classical martial arts) And see how these 'intuitive' moves work when getting pounded in the head. Maybe we should not be so proud to be destroying Bjj as the world's most effective self defence system. Honestly, do you think someone who can defend every choke in the world is suddenly and spontaneously going to be able to stop someone from punching him in the face? If he has never practice that-and I mean in full speed, full force training? To think that is a violation of the 'specificity principle' (if you want to get good at something you have to specifically practice for it-(running does not make you a better climber etc)) and the protocols of BJJ and I cant think of anyone who thinks that except people who have never been in real 'fights" and those people should not be giving advice on self-defence- never.
Its 2 different things completely. When law enforcement comes to train we're not teaching them bolo's or spider lasso guard why? cause they would be killed. When we teach the U.S. military jiujitsu we don't teach them Imanari rolls why? cause it would get our troops killed. Self defense Jiujitsu is effective against a street thug or robber. This is the #1 reason why so many world class Jiujitsu Champions go into the UFC and get their heads Knocked off. Tell you what, go to Damien Mias channel. Someone just asked him that same question. Why do so many jiujitsu guys get beat up in the UFC? his answer was because in sport they dont train with enough punches, kicks, and elbows being thrown at them regulary . Yes most sport guys will beat self defense guys but thats because they start training for guys who only do jiujitsu. But if you think this your theory is going to hold up. You should go to an MMA school and ask the guys there to put the gloves on and go full force at you and see just how good your reaction time. Don,t ask your students, got to school with guys who don't know you. I'm a Renzo Gracie Brown Belt and I know Professor Faras and he'd tell you the same thing.
My dad says " everybody has an asshole and yours stinks!" That's my dad. Anyways, I agree FA and FO! Oss....
People who often gets into silly arguments like these often don’t understand basic human physiology in relation to engaging in any sort of physical activity; sports or otherwise. It is well understood truth in fitness circles that sports are for the top 1% of human beings that are genetically gifted in their physicality and athleticism; martial arts or otherwise. If your techniques still matter more than your physical strength in the competitions you’ve competed in so far, you have yet to compete with the big boys. One Champ, UFC, IBJFF, or even the NBA or NFL; you aren’t a genetically gifted individual with a record to prove it, forget about it. With that in mind, as far as self defense is concerned and whether or not sports specific martial arts training would be sufficient, there is a lot you can get away with not training if you are a genetically gifted individual. Take the example of bjj rolling with an actual gorilla; the gorilla being analogous to an extremely genetically gifted individual. It doesn’t matter if the gorilla is up against Khabib, or GSP, or Gordon Ryan, the gorilla doesn’t need to know jack shit about martial arts & it would still be able to rip Khabib, or GSP, or Gordon Ryan’s arm out of their socket effortlessly and rip their face off with its bear hands while at it. On the flip side, lets say we have a martial arts student who is genetically gifted to have a strength of a gorilla and is able to rip a guy’s arm out of his socket and his actual face off of his face. That student needs to save his money because he is set for life to get by on the mean streets even if he doesn’t know the first thing about fighting and thinks martial arts is a type of painting. That guy is set! People who want to learn martial arts with the intention to defend themselves are not your genetically gifted athletes. They are your average joes.
I'm good, sport jiu jitsu it's not for me...at some point you got to train for realism. How you train is how you react.
You’re right Rick. This whole sport vs non stuff is just garbage invented on the internet to argue about and create content for the sake of views, likes, and comments. At the end of the day if you train in a combat sport/art, where competitive sparring is a large part of your training, you are likely to fair much better in a confrontation with another person, especially against one who’s untrained.
I think you and Rick are correct to a large extent, but I can’t ignore the fact that Rickson Gracie says he regularly meets black belts that can’t properly demonstrate a headlock escape (and/or maybe other basic escapes…I’ve heard him talk about it at length but can’t recall all the details). I have to take his word for it. I think it’s reasonable to accept your greater point and Rick’s greater point while still acknowledging Rickson’s point. I think both are true and work to make up the entire answer.
Disagree, sport jiu jitsu doesn't factor disengagement. In the suggested ground and pound experiment Tonon struggles as soon as his opponent stands and gets into striking range. The current ufc champs, Jon Jones, Alex Pereira, Du Plessis, Leon Edward etc all know how to avoid having there hips compromised. Even at the start of the Tristar vid the street fighter creates space and reins down punches. Thus the issue with SPORT jiu-jitsu doesn't cover the different ranges.
Why you tall about grabbing??? And the striking in the streets ?? On the ground the other guy is gonna punch and elbow you ... the street jiujitsu must have sparr with gloves if not you are never gonna use well your jiujitsu against striking
If you want to learn REAL self protection then I have 4 words for you. Lee Morrison. Urban Combatives.
Shut up
There's a lot of Truth to what this guy is saying because if you look at the videos online where BJJ is actually used it looks like it's just sport jujitsu and MMA. A guy shoots in on the guy's legs take him down gets on top. THEN TAKES THE GUY'S BACK AND CHOKES HIM.
You are what you train. If you train defensive tactics live it will be "okay" but if it is static it will suck. Training self defense live is just not fun and endless situations. Put on white tshirt and give your friend a sharpie pen and tell them to truly try to stab you. Your going to get marked up. Strike a little (live) grapple a little (live) and you'll be alright. If you trust your life to something like the gracie master text for knife, bat, and gun disarms then you are not very knowledgeable about "self defense". Why learn combatives from someone who never has been in combat. Self defense techniques are basically fraudulent marketing. You shouldn't train self defense because it is completely worthless. If you get in a one on one with bare hands then a little striking and a little grappling goes far. If it's 3 on 1, a guy with a gun, a guy with bat your best chance is to get the heck out of there if you can. Like I said, get a white tshirt and friend with a marker and see how you favorite technique works if they really try to mark you up.
Sport BJJ guys always make this statement that sport BJJ is self defense. Every world class sport BJJ guy that comes to Gracie JJ in Torrance is blown away about what they don't know about self defense Jujitsu. They all say I have never seen any of these concepts before. In defensive JJ we learn distance management while standing, elbows, kicks, standing throws, how to exhaust an opponent, how to pare punches, how to deal with kickers etc. Most important the mindset is different with the approach to fighting. Sport is totally different than Defensive BJJ. Sure sport guys can defend themselves but at what cost. I have been to sport schools, what they teach is great, its explosive, athletic, but not defensive. Stop trying to compare the two. Its almost like you are trying to justify what you learned. Both Sport and Defensive BJJ have their place.
'Its almost like you are trying to justify what you learned.'. He's done both you brain melt. Next time, watch the video before spouting crap.
@@lm10_dxz91 I know what I am talking about