Italian Insanity: 12 Battles of the Isonzo | Animated History
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Sources:
Falls, Cyril. The Battle of Caporetto. Philadelphia: Lippincott, 1966.
Gilmour, David. The Pursuit of Italy: A History of a Land, Its Regions and Their Peoples. London: Penguin, 2012.
Gooch, John. The Italian Army and the First World War. Cambridge u.a.: Cambridge Univ. Press, 2014.
Krbavcic, Ales. “The Isonzo front in the First World War: glass ampoules found in the vicinity of the village Kred.” Acta medico-historica adriatica : AMHA vol. 13,1 (2015): 9-20.
Macdonald, John, and Cimprič Željko. Caporetto and the Isonzo Campaign: The Italian Front, 1915-1918. Barnsley, South Yorkshire: Pen & Sword Military, 2011.
Rommel, Erwin. Infantry Attacks. London: Greenhill Books, 2006.
Schindler, John R. Isonzo: The Forgotten Sacrifice of the Great War. Westport (Conn.): Praeger, 2001.
Seth, Ronald. Caporetto: The Scapegoat Battle. London, 1965.
Silvestri, Mario. Isonzo 1917. Milano: Milano, 2014.
Strachan, Hew. The First World War: Vol. I: To Arms. New York: Oxford University Press, Incorporated, 2003.
Thompson, Mark. The White War: Life and Death on the Italian Front, 1915-1919. New York: Basic Books, 2010.
Uomini Contro. Novara: Istituto geografico De Agostini, 2011.
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Nice
Hötzendorf vs Cardorna, the opposite of a redshirt vs stormtrooper in that a million shots are fired, a million people die, and a few kilometres are exchanged. Just like the rest of that fucking war.
Cardorna was the best general of the Central Powers. Hötzendorf was the best among the Entente leadership.
@The Armchair Historian I know this channel is a chill place where you just watch a relatively fast paced and entertaining video but I gotta ask this. Can you please share some links? I myself am a bit lazy so I didn't check if the cited sources can be found online and after writing this I'll be sure to look for them but please consider my question still.
Great content. It would be good if you made one about the Spanish-American War of 1898.
Luigi Cadorna was one of the most effective commanders, that the Central Powers ever had. No one killed more Italian soldiers than he did.
lmao
Haha
No, the Italian government did, by entering the war.
@@recitationtohear how come bots can share link but when I do mine get automatically deleted
@@shivanshna7618 Because they're youtube links. YT doesn't care about hyperlinks if they lead to you using their website more.
Generals: How many attempts do you want? Cadorna: Sì !
new vid when?
Make a video about it question mark ⁉️
Plis video about that topic
@@Foxrich99 - Is this meta?
Death korp of krieg: i like this man
It's so hard to comprehend the staggering numbers of casualties. Each one of these battles costs tens of thousands of lives, whole communities devastated.
Terrain had a big role in this. It's from flat at sea in the south up to 2k in the north, most of it high hills to mountains. With a river in the middle. Positions were heavily fortified with trenches and caverns all over the slopes and with artillery on top.
Luckily people do a lot of boinking to make up for it.
And every one of those lives was cut off just as they could have become fruitful. Boys who could have become men who married, raised families, started businesses, written novels, created arts, discovered new technologies, built new institutions. Etc etc. Over a 100 years later, it makes my heart ache to think how much potential the people's of Europe threw away in that war.
@@sifamora13 The terrain was not the main reason for the high number of casualties. You can find those casualty numbers in all kinds of terrain during WW1. You should blame the generals and those who gave them their job (the politicians) for the death of so many men. The acceptance of so many dead soldiers in believe of the coming victory started in 1914 right at the begining of the war. The deadliest day for any army in WW1 was the august 22, 1914 when the french army counterattack the advancing german army during the battle of the frontiers. This was before the trenches were built on the western front. In a series of independent battles french soldiers charged the germans in large close formations and were killed by rapid german gunfire and precise german artillery. When the day was over more then 27000 french soldiers had died. (This is not the casualty number which is much higher but the actual dead.) And the next day the french attacked again.
Exactly my thoughts
As an Italian, I have always found borderline insulting that across the country there are still squares and streets named after Cadorna, although I read that in very recent years some towns are actually removing his name. It still baffles me how such an incompetent butcher, who still thought of warfare in Napoleonic terms in the era of machine guns, managed to be in charge of the Italian forces for so long despite disastrous loss after loss.
Image being a slovenian and seeing that streets are named after an imperialist butcher who invaded our land and forced us to suffer under fascism for 30 years
Yes, it’s a shame
If it's of any help, there are still streets named after Conrad v. Hötzendorf in Austria... (Same kind of commander...)
Every country has a Cadorna... In France we had Général Nivelle...
Maybe some of them are for his father
Italian General : "Attack it again." Italian Officer : "But sir, we already tried that." Italian General : *"They won't expect the same thing for the 12th time."*
kzhead.info/sun/pcallq-KfJxrY6c/bejne.html
Eggs exactly. Doing what we've done ten times before will catch the watchful Hun completely by surprise.
Hahahahah
@Eminiem vevo kkkk kin ókkóóô look like to 8⁷k I'm iuú mi mi moo moo m mm mm in you if he I'm 6j
Now thats the definition of insanity right there!
My great-grandfather (who I never met) fought in the battle of Caporetto/Kobarid. Until the day he died, he'd do all in his power to avoid passing through any street named after Luigi Cadorna.
my utmost respect for you great grandfather, but I must add, why did they name a street out of the person who took the lives of so many young Italians in vein... seems outrageous if anything
@@toast2300 they named A LOT of streets in his name, in Milan "piazzale Cadorna" is a main rail and metro hub for example
@@MrSaverio97 there so many great things and people in Italian history, and they decided to go with Luigi Cadorna. Incredible
Sadly nearly every italian town has street named after him. 🙄 Recently the city of Merano (former Austrian territory) tried and failed to rename the Cadorna Street in the name of Elena Stern, a chield murdered at Auschwitz concentration camp.
@@Lame_Duck it's like my country, Brazil, every city has a street or area named after Getúlio Vargas, a dictator from 1937 to 1945
I'm from Slovenia and my great-grandfather fought on this front for Austro-hungary. He fortunately survived and when he returned home, he gave my grandmother (his daughter) a white flower that only grows in the Alps as a gift; he picked it during the fighting and kept it for her.
the edelweiss?
Stella Alpina
man I got home the same flower from the same Alps where my great grandpa fought on the italian side, and yeah it's a Stella Alpina/Edelweiss!
Well, here in Slovenia the flower is Planika.
Planika ❤
A relatively young Erwin Rommel fought in the Battle of Caporetto. He had three rifle companies and an MG unit (~150 men total), and during a little over two days captured over 80 artillery pieces and 9,000 Italians, with 6 KIA on his forces. He would later bring a token force and trick the enemy into believing they were surrounded, and captured a further 10,000 men.
I remember reading about his part taking at this battle, but don't remember these numbers. What i do remember however was that even back then, he was the kind of guy you proabaly want as your commander, but not as your subordinate... He was given the objective of capturing one height, and when succeding, without asking for permission, or informing anyone he just went on to the next one and maybe the next one that seemed feasable to him too.
Not everything Rommel writes in his memoires is true, you know, memoires should not be taken too seriously as historic references, in general.
@@uffa00001 Oh, that's not from Rommels memoirs. I ahven't read them. That's from other sources like books i read on the isonzo front and the great war channel.
There was a short time were storm troopers managed great victories but the Italians adapted a deep defence strategy that made those approaches increasingly difficult and painful for the attacker (see Austrian Jagdkommando forces or on the Great War channel or infiltration assaults in general).
And he was surprised how many prisoners could understand German. Truth is many have emigrated to Germany before the war
The Italian diplomat initially present at the Versailles conference broke down in tears when he realized that the full extent of Italian territorial demands would not be met. He quit and was soon replaced
Ironically Italians could get what they wanted if they just kept positions at the Isonzo, as French and Uk guys pointed out their shoring up Italy after Caporetto defeat as the reason to not give anything more, as Italians should be greatfull that they are saved.
@@alexzero3736 we couldn't hold against a coalition of Germans and Austrians, so to repair we brought a victory in Vittorio Veneto
@@alexzero3736 That wasn't the real reason. More like existed the problem of Yugoslavia and they tried a compromise between the partition for territories of the Ex-Austria-Hungary Empire. The Allies promised that lands to Italy and not an "if you do well, maybe you could get X and Y". Two very different things.
@@toni2296 Who are they to trade other nations territory.
@@marjanp We could say the same with UK and France taking some territories of Ottoman Empire and the Colonies of Germany.
The most interesting thing about WW1 to me is that we see some nations rotating quickly through high command officers, like the french, and others sticking with the same guy regardless of how bad it's going, Austria and Italy. It boggles my mind that Cadorna wasn't sacked until after 12 battles of the same damn river.
There wasn't anything really suitable for attacks, the Isonzo was quite literally, the only place for an offensive, the north was covered by mountains, the south was covered by the sea and the Austro-Hungarian navy, and like hell the Italians would never try to lose their navy for the Ionian sea.
I think WWI is characterized by the incumbency and protection of royal appointees and priviledged heads. Despite the abysmal displays from many unimaginative to even downright incompetent officers, this continued in some countries like france after the war. The political backscratching when it comes to flag officers is off the charts and its common to see enlisted and junior officers scapegoated for greater organizational failures. The French laughed at breech loader cannons and got stomped by the prussians. The French committed to trench warfare despite consistantly dreadful results up to and culminating in the disasterous mess of Dien Bien Phu 60 years later. Thier leadership where stunned when the Germans broke through from Belgium, and field commanders sat in thier chairs as thier units routed around them. Yet these commanders return to military office during the liberations. You'll often see examples were in WWII, British Naval flag officers made dreadful decisions made from questionable judgement, only for the Naval Board to censor it for fear of undermining public confidence and naval prestige.
I suspect it depended on the nation's governments and leadership philosophies. Italy and Austria still had very entrenched aristocracies and literally a case wear sacking an officer meant sacking a count or the son of one. I don't think Cadorna was royalty but he was the son of a general. France on the other hand was a republic and since Napoleon at least had the concept of meritocracy embedded in their government.
@Hernando Malinche I mean they could have but that would add a whole logistical mess. Different rifle ammo not to mention another language added as well. Could have been done but would have it been worth it? Idk
@Hernando Malinche fun fact: the italians actually fought in different theaters, with the most important being the balkans. They even sent around 60k troops at the beginning of 1918 on the western front and there was an italian force in France since the start of the war (even before Italy's entry in the war), this unit was commanded by the grandson of Giuseppe Garibaldi.
My family has lost one to his arrogance and stubborness. A beloved husband and father, who recommended his family to the creator every step he took towards the train to the north. We never found his body, his brother searched every field hospital only to be met with raised shoulders. "Cadorna" is one of the heaviest swearword under my roof If you want to understand how Italy feels about him, take a look to "Uomini Contro" best WW1 movie ever made PS: for those wondering how a sammarinese family got involved in that cursed bloodbath, he was from my grandma branch of family which was 100% italian, so he and his brothers were drafted. Useless to say double citizenship was not an option so my mother took my grandfather sammarinese citizenship and here I am.
damn
arent you sammarinese? why your relative had to go to war?
@@ccane978 he was Italian. You know, being an enclave it happens having "mixed" families also, double citizenship wasn't a thing until REALLY recently, long complicated story...
Uomini Contro sounds like an interesting film!
@@bluespaceman7937 very interesting, means "men againts each other"
Excellent video. In Argentina until now the word "Cadorna" is related to disaster and also as a synonym to the slang word used to refer to the male reproductive organ. This happened because at the time of WWI the Italian immigration was really vast in Argentina
As Argentinian you should be really careful in listening English version of the WW. Especially when it comes to Italian they tend to lie or hide the truth
@@mirkonavarra1517 No, it is all propaganda no matter which side says it.
@@vergesserforgetter2160 in war there is always propaganda but the english one is better spread. There are battle in ww2 where the English lose with italian and they make a statement saying that they had Germans in front or they turn defeats into a victory, hilarious
@@mirkonavarra1517 so true. English pirati spread propaganda left and right. If you listen to them Churchill was a saint and not an alcoholic colonialist 😂
@@mirkonavarra1517 hahahaha still crying about the belgrano and being bitch slapped from the falklands despite outnumbering the british 3 to 1
Wow a FarCry 3 reference in the year of our Lord 2022. Whoever drew that thumbnail deserves a raise.
it was very unexpected surprise, but a welcomed one. loved FarCry 3. Edit: wow I didn't expect to get this many likes, thank you!
"The definition of insanity is to fight the battle of the isonzo over and over again, expecting the outcome to change"
I miss Vaas you know...
Now that's soldiering
From Vaas Montenegro to annexing Montenegro
Im from Austria and hiked a long way along the Isonzo frontline with my dad while he would read me storys and reports about the battles. There are still so many old bunkers, positions and fortresses left covered in barbed wire and laiden with old tin cans, beyonettes and gasmask filters. It truly was a horrific part of the war and should never happen again between our nations. Rip to all fallen.
I'm from Italy and I remember hiking in that same area and stopping at an austrian rifugio way up in the mountains run by a bunch of young austrian students. I ate 40 euros worth of the best alpine food known to man. I'm very happy we're friends now.
At least along the Slovene-Italian border, it is called a "path of peace" and in some places the trenches are preserved as outside museums.
Never again brother's wars 🇪🇺
I'm from Bassano del Grappa, every day i see that flat mountain, trees don't grow there, the ground had become glass under the bombarments of that period.
People in Europe can't ever seem to get along, so they start killing each other. It will happen again.
As a US/NATO soldier, I learned to rappel in a quarry near to the monument there and have been to Udine many times in winter. A major point of the rappelling trip, in addition to learning to manage fear of heights and going off a 300' cliff backwards was to learn the futility of assaulting dug in positions on cliff faces and why it's important to study military history.
And why it is so important to not be a member of any military. Pure evil brainwashing. Good luck to you.
Videm*
In Italy, Cadorna has today a terrible reputation. Italian soldiers under his command had to be extremely brave. The strategy at the time was called " strategia delle spallate ", basically based of ininterrupt waves of attacks until the enemy breaks. Something obsolete, but used in WW2 by soviet union.
Used today by Russian Federation.
However, unlike Italy and today's Russia, USSR at the time had the logistics and firepower advantage to make it work.
@@sneckotheveggieavenger9380 true, they did use it *sometimes* but there were times they used their brains
@@ivanmatusic5540 and all 3 won against their enemy and gained more ground than they had before the war
The USSR did not do this. That‘s misinformation, plenty of good sources on Soviet strategy on KZhead
"I know loads about WW1 history" "Oh really? Name 12 battles of WW1." "Uhh, the Battles Of Isonzo?!!?" "That's on me, I set the bar too low."
No no, he’s got a point
Technically the truth
Fun fact: Luigi Cadorna got the job basically just because his father Raffaele was an esteemed and capable general who participated in the conquest of Rome in 1870. Who could have thought he was going to be bad?
His father and his son were both highly capable soldiers. Raffaele Cadorna Jr. was an effective partisan leader during WW2. The gene seemed to have skipped Luigi's generation.
Actually there were disputes in Italian government to replace Cadorna after 10th battle of Isonzo ( Duke of Aosta seemed as good candidate), but Cadorna plead right to the Victor Emmanuel who stopped this talks until the very defeat at Caporetto.
How Italians hire people:
Wow, i am getting moltke the young vibes :/
@@saintroddy not really...not one if three Cadorna generation was capable.
There is an upcoming game called "Isonzo", it's an authentic WW1 fps hardcore shooter set on the italian alps, the same developers made game for the western and eastern front of WW1 too!
Verdun tannenberg and Isonzo XD
I live in Triest, which is really near the Isonzo, these battles are really important to this day. A poet that I studied in school, wrote that even the austrians were surprised of the italians charging recklessy, shouting 'why why are you charging like this' or something similar. When these things happened in your area, you feel more the stories than reading them in a book
same here in slovenia, i live in or near nova gorica so it's very important here
That the Austrians lost almost as many even on the high ground defensive, shows how brutal the fighting must have been. Millions of artillery shells and brutal close quarter fighting once trench lines were breached.
The therm "It was a Caporetto" or "you have done a Caporetto." was a popular catchphrase among italians for a while. Just to underline how big of a disaster it was on the public's eye.
It is to this day.
Yeah it is to this day, very old-fashioned but anyone would get it
We have three ways of saying bound to the greatest losses in Italian history... "it's been a Caporetto", "it happened an Ambaradan" and "it's a '48". Oh and we have "A Waterloo".
Likewise, in France we have "that's a Berezina" and "a punch like Trafalgar" (that one is hard to translate)
@@UTJK. mai sentito dire è successo un ambaradan :)
Austrian Army: “How many times are you going to launch a frontal assault on the same defensive line?” Italian Army: “Yes.”
That pretty much summarizes WWI for everybody.
Death korp of krieg: i found a brother
This is not fully correct. Italian army also was busy in the Balkans, assisting evacuation of remnants of Serbian army and fighting Bulgarians in Macedonian front.
Whats even more ridicilous is that the austrians had either more or almost equal casualties in most battles despite defending fortified mountains.
@@rance2799 True. Absolute numbers are similar but defenders were outnumbered and much lower on supplies, fighting much longer without a relief. There was also heavy artillery fire.
My great grandfather fought in ww1 he fought what was later called the "white war", he was an Alpine in the 5th Alpini btg "Valle d'intelvi", researching a bit of what his battalion did i found out that he survived one of the worst attack in high mountain ever done, basically they had to attack along with other battalions an enemy position in hig mountain enviroment, but when time to attack came the only battalion that attacked was my great grandfather one and they nearly got all killed. He survived this and the war coming back home unharmed. But wait if this wasn't enough my grandfather, his son, was also an Alpine in the 5th Alpini he fought in ww2, deployed in Russia, he survived the russian retreath of 1943 coming back Unharmed. When i discoverd this i was like Wtf.
Ciao. So Cumasch
Superhuman genes
Italian General: We're gonna try another frontal assault Italian Soldier: Did I ever tell you the definition of Insanity? That thumbnail is golden.
We don't talk about Luigi Cadorna, he's the Conrad von Hötzendorf of the Italian Army in ww1
hmmmmmmm
Hotzendorf is a military genius compared to Cadorna lol
Too bad he faced Svetozar Boroević von Bojna, aka Lion of Isonzo.
Imagine if the two had battle against each other. Literal Clown on Clown warfare.
@@rafaelglopezroman1110 fun fact hotzendorf rule the Austrians in the alps, and they fought 3 years, Cadorna won against him, then hotzendorf was replaced by another guy
My great grandfather, Antonio, fighted in half of the battles of Isonzo as an Alpino ( Troops specialized in mountain fighting ) as a field Doctor beyind friendly Lines saving hundreds of lifes. He got captured during the battle of Caporetto and then transferred to a prison camp on the German borders. After the war he returned to Italy ( Turin ) where he died of natural causes
Behind or beyond? I can't tell
@@josephc.9520 both I guess aha
I was not told where but I was told my great grandfather Serafino was sent to the Austrian front and came home with some medals
you mean battle of Kobarid, since that is how town is called now
@@janjordy no, when a battle happens you name it whatever its name is, for example the Battle of Sluys
Just a small fact here: The commander of the German stormtroopers that help to break Italian line was no other than Erwin Rommel himself. Before becoming tank specialist and genius of blitzkrieg he was a genius infantry commander.
And then he lost the war.......
I'm sure Erwin Rommel would have you believe that, especially his biographers.
@@emiliomoncher154and then he got wrongfully executed before the war ended*
This makes sense, German Armored doctrine in WW2 got started in Stormtrooper Insertion tactics. The Germans did a 'blitzkrieg' in 1918, but using men instead of tanks it wasn't nearly as effective.
My grandpa use to repeat a little gingle about the Isonso battles eard from his dad who was a Piave survivors "Il General Cadorna s'è mezzo che impazzito, ha mandato al fronto anche quello che si succhiano il dito" (The original jingle was a bit more slang, i've transcript cleareing it, in the case someone wanna translate it sorry) More or less translatable as The general Cadorna is half in madness, he send to the front the toddlers too" Referencing the "99 boys how was 17 in that battle
I thought the title said “Italian Intensity” not “Italian Insanity” however, I think both work. Great video about a very interesting topic, mate.
That would be kind of funny if it did say that.
It sounds better tbh
I saw that too!
🇩🇪👍🇮🇹🤛🇷🇺
That would have been a interesting typo.
Just noticed the thumbnail is a reference to Far Cry 3’s main antagonist; Vaas. Makes perfect sense since the definition of insanity is attempting the same frontal assault repeatedly.
Did I ever tell you the definition of insanity
Wow great catch!!
Cadorna: Take me to your Gorizia, accept me as your Generale, nail me to the fucking Istria, AND LET ME BE TERRA IRRIDENTIA!
@@gorbi8947 *throws the whole Italian army from a cliff*
One of the greatest video game villains
Lets not forget the immense contribution of Luigi Cadorna to Game Development industry. He was an inspiration and a pioneer in AI used in strategy games. Bravisimo.
Alessandro Barbero has told that tale, especially its culmination at Caporetto and the later consequences, including birth of fascism, in a fascinating long talk, in Italian, that can be found on KZhead. A key point was the sense of being let down by incompetent and treacherous politicians above Cadorna that these soldiers experienced. Hitler and his Freikorps comrades went through similar experiences, partly based on illusions. They felt that real heroes needed to gain power and take revenge and that they were somehow destined to take that power from the postwar "plutocratic" politicians that were blamed for "mutilated victory" and shameful peace. The occupation of Fiume led by poet Gabriele d'Annunzio in 1919 showed how to do it.
Man, his book directly throw you into action, like the one about Waterloo
When I learned that Italians did 12 battles at isonzo, I asked my self: " What pushed them to do this?" but I was too lazy to search it up. Therefore, thank you Armchair historian.
What pushed them? The italian Chief of Staff Luigi Cadorna.
@@alexzero3736 The butcher of isonzo
A lack of literally any other option, that's the answer. What, attack into the Alps that are much more unfriendly terrain?
Soon we'll learn about the 24 battles of Bakhmut
@@alexzero3736 Trento and Trieste! What else?!
People called Haig a butcher but he eventually listened to his army and corps commanders to integrate his forces and use the newer technologies in order to break the stalemate of trench warfare. Cadorna never listened and lost his job.
Form what ive read, the actual soldiers who fought ww1 considered Haig to be a decent commander who did what needed to be done in the face of a difficult transition in technology and tactics. They understood that Butcher's Bill needed to be paid to learn the necessary lessons.
Even though he is called “The Butcher of The Somme”, I would rather be under Haig’s command than be under Cadorna
A curiosity: After the war, Haig dedicated his life and retirement to the welfare of veterans and soldiers, granting financial assistance to ex-servicemen. There's that saying of a hero who lived long enough to become a villain, in Haig's case, i think a "villain" who lived long enough to become a hero is more fitting.
well the battle of somme was blood bath und haig is to blame as bucher
Not to be a complete apologist for man who carried with him 19th century tactics through most of the war, not to mention this guy was okay with executing his own soldiers to set an example. But by 1918, he did understand he needed technology to win and have commanders not afraid to integrate it. Once Monash and his Diggers of the 1st Australian Corps retook Hamel in 93 minutes on July 4, 1918. Haig knew he could turn the tide.
Italian officer: we can't capture a mountain Italian general: dig a tunnel
I'm surprised the difference between the Italian and Hapsburg casaulties wasn't greater, considering the terrible Italian planning and Austria's huge terrain advantage. The Italian troops deserve credit for accomplishing anything at all in such conditions.
🙂
Even though the Austrians had the terrain advantage they were heavily lacking in... basically everything. Ammunition, food, clothes or simply the reason to fight this battle. Many of the units on this battlefield were nations such as Hungarians, Slovenes, Croatians, Serbs, etc. They couldn't even communicate with eachother and did not really want to fight. Many times the Austrians lived on the stuff the Italians left there for them. Food, clothes... This battle was a complete shitshow and neither side wanted it... To this day all these nations come together at the Memorial of the Isonzo to commemorate all of the lost soldiers, regardless of nation.
Because the Italians used ever increasing amounts of artillery.
Maybe you would be even more surprised to know that Italians finally won the war. Be careful when you listen English historian to talk about italian army
"Lions leaded by donkeys"
it's great to learn while being entertained by the animations you make!
Those of you looking for a good novel to read might enjoy "A Soldier of the Great War". It's about a young Italian guy who fights in the Italian mountains against the Austrians. It's a work of art, truly. Amazing writing and exciting, dramatic story.
Could you say the name of the writer?
@@patatone0493 Mark Helprin
Immediately bought the paperback! Book has such good ratings also I'm surprised I've never even heard of it (and this battle). Thank you for recommending it!
A Soldier of the Great War, I'll keep that in mind.
My great grandpa was sent to defend the Slovene lands in the Soča valley. Tho falling rocks crushed his feet, he thankfully survived and returned to Lower Styria where he later created a family.
Štajerska*
@@Piospkc Lower Styria je Štajerska po anglesko…
And then arrived Diaz and Cadorna sent at home .So we won the war in Vittorio Veneto 🇮🇹
Yes). And ended the cycle of Isonzan insanity)
Keep in mind that a "battle" was sometimes a month long in this war.
Verdun....
@@dinosertanejo222 Verdun was 9 months if i am not wrong.... what a bloodbath....
@@kx4998 Yeah it was the longest: February 21-December 18, 1916.
@@dinosertanejo222 303 days below the sun, FIELDS OF VERDUN
AND THE JUDGEMENT HAS BEGUN
The battles of Isonzo are basically what happens when you put hoi4 AI in charge of an attack. They just do the same thing again and again, expecting things to change Literally the defintion of insanity, yet so hilarious
@The Philosoraptor yeah because they do the same thing as the AI XDD Though honestly it's also because ppl who don't micromanage end up having the game do endless attacks for them over and over and over again regardless if it's successful or not
@The Philosoraptor hoi is incredibly easy against the ai
@The Philosoraptor yeah it does, and equipment too And I guess tell your friend to micromanage or at least pay some attention to what the AI is doing, and also that supply & infrastructure is super important I know that there are hoi4 players that *are* successful without micromanaging and people who can't micromanage or can't be bothered to. But for me, I'm a min-maxer at heart because, if I'm bot down something at peak effeciany, I just feel like I'm nit doing it right
As Vaas from Far Cry 3 said, "Insanity is doing the same thing over and over again expecting things to change."
@The Philosoraptor if you're attacking then it can only be done by just stopping the assault and only attacking when you can micromanage individual attacks If you're defending, and the problem by "human wave loop" you mean by your troops trying auromatically to take back the land you've lost, then unfortunately there's next to know way to do it. You'd have to catch each individual division and stop them before they attack which even I can't do and it happened to me when Germany was invading me as the soviet union and since my troops weren't the sharpest tools in the shed, I had to retreat, but the problem was that the AI was automatically constantly de-orging themselves so it got worse and worse for a while If you mean that it's just simply the enemy gaining a lot of ground on you quickly then it's just a matter of finding whatever way to not lose so quickly. It can be not enough troops/manpower/equipment, it could be bad troops, it could be attrition and it could be many more reasons as to why. It could also be that the enemies divisions are either better(I.e. a tank for example) or WAYYy outnumber you So I hope that answers your qustion I guess Oh and also almost forgot. Your division template matters a lot too, so tell that to your friend I guess. I myself have the same infantry division template that rolls over the AI each time because the AI's biggest weakness is bad division templates. Would you like to know what I division template I use to roll over the AI and maybe tell your friend it?
I live on the banks of the Isonzo, right where the battlefield was. The hills around here are still full of ww1 trenches and fortifications which is pretty cool. The whole area gives me really eerie vibes tho. You can really feel that hundreds of thousands of people died here.
I live close to the Grappa and the Asiago plateau, and the situation is similar here. Many trenches are still visible, there's countless holes created by artillery shell explosions and you can still find scattered remnants of ammunition here and there, and sometimes human remains.
Videos like this are why I watch this channel. Powerful stuff, especially when Griff shows the barest hint of emotion at the end. Historical KZhead at its finest.
As a Slovenian I must put this poem here. This (part) poem was written by Slovenian Simon Gregorčič in the year 1879. The title of poem is 'Soči' (To Isonzo) dedicated to river Soča (Isonzo). (He knew what will happened 36 year later) Krasna si, bistra hči planin, brdka v prirodni si lepoti, ko ti prozornih globočin nevihte divje srd ne moti! Pa oh, siroti tebi žuga vihar grozán, vihar strašán; prihrumel z gorkega bo juga, divjal čez plodno bo ravan, ki tvoja jo napaja struga - gorjé, da daleč ni ta dan! Nad tabo jasen bo obok, krog tebe pa svinčena toča in dež krvav in solz potok in blisk in grom - oh, bitva vroča! Tod sekla bridka bodo jekla, in ti mi boš krvava tekla: kri naša te pojila bo, sovražna te kalila bo! In english... How beautiful you are, lucid daughter of the mountains, so graceful in your natural beauty, your diaphanous depths are not troubled by the tempests rage! Yet, alas, you poor one, Fearful tempests, terrible storms are threatening you. From the warm south they will come raging across your fertile plains. Alas, not long away is that day. Clear sky above you, hail of bullets around you, and rain of blood and stream of tears, thunder and lightning. Swords will cut here, blood will run knee deep, our blood will feed you, enemy blood will spoil you!
Slovenia femboy
Cheers from Austria to my Slovenian brothers!
nice poem I like it
@@etetepete Austria was the reason for that!! Serbiem muss sterbien!! Schon vergessen?? and now telling story's as under the Austrian everything was fine!!
@@gamerdrache8741 did you really have to bring this bullshit here?
Its astonishing how Italians troops, despite their incapable high command, through their willpower and love for their homeland, they have managed to complete their goals to the best of their ability, fighting every time with intensity and honor. But yet it’s shameful how many brave men have died because of the mistakes of their generals.
You must not know that tactics that were employed to get the soldiers to attack or not desert. Human nature doesn’t change only the circumstances.
Cadorna is the perfect example of insanity in that of doing the same thing and hoping for a different result, losing HALF of the total Italian Army as a result (somewhere around 300,000 men). A mad theater of war in a mad time of war. One of Cadorna's "maxim's" was that fighting spirit and discipline would always defeat a stronger opponent. I seriously doubt he ever lost any sleep over these 300,000 deaths til the day he died in 1928. Edited for spelling.
Been watching you for years now sir, you never stop with the awesome videos. Thanks so much for your work! And it was good to see something from the Italian-Austrian front for WWI, tragic as it is. I feel it's often overlooked.
Giuseppe Ungaretti, one of Italy's greatest poets, fought during WW1 at the battle of Isonzo and he wrote my favorite poem "I miei fiumi" which mentions the Isonzo river. Sometimes I get really sad thinking about all the men who had to fight, see the horrors of war and die in one of the most beautiful places on earth. I've been there, I've visited some trenches that are still preserved, and I still can't believe it...
Un’intera nottata buttato vicino a un compagno massacrato con la sua bocca digrignata volta al plenilunio con la congestione delle sue mani penetrata nel mio silenzio ho scritto lettere piene d’amore Non sono mai stato tanto attaccato alla vita Cima Quattro il 23 dicembre 1915 Giuseppe Ungaretti
@@danieleferraro8183 la prima volta che ho letto Ungaretti fu proprio con questa poesia, e me ne innamorai subito tantissimo. Grazie per avermi fatto rivivere quel ricordo!
@@andreatrezzi7186 è crudo, secco, rende l'idea, trovo bellissimo ed estremamente triste che tanto genio avesse bisogno di uno stimolo così profondamente cattivo per uscire e donarsi al mondo.
With this name, fighting against Hungarians. Must have been interesting
We stay like in autumn On tree branches as leaves Sometimes I wonder if he found out about haiku poetry.
11:18 Italy: IT'S OVER AUSTRIA-HUNGARY! I HAVE THE HIGH GROUND! Austria-Hungary: You underestimate my powers. Italy: Don't try it.
I appreciate you making a video on this, often overlooked, front. There is really so much more to say about it. The terrain of the isonzo front was really tough, with some mountain peaks towering 2000 meters over the valley. There is an old legend saying that the top of the mount Batognica (2164m) was lowered by 9 meters due to all the shelling. Till this day the mountains are still full of bunkers, trenches, ammunition, etc. Today there is a memorial trail called "Walk of Peace" going through the paths that the war was fought.
Great video Armchair historian! I'm always surprised at how much the Italo-Austrian front is overlooked by anglophone historians, so this video is a step in the right direction! Great visuals as well!
I would love a video on the Portuguese Colonial War. It's such a cool conflict that is so rarely discussed and it would be perfect in your style.
Finally, someone made a video about this legendary historic meme
Enjoyed this video immensely! These battles are often overlooked in my opinion. They were very Brutal battles in some of the worst conditions imaginable, I believe they are still finding frozen bodies. Anyway, Great video as always.
This is one of the most overlooked fronts yet it was quite important, it was also the hardest front due to the mountanous terrain(unlike the other main fronts). Despite the huge loss of life(and Cadorna's stubburness) Italy came very close to break the Austrian's line(as a matter of fact Austria asked for Germany's help because they thought another offensive would be thier doom). Not to defend Cadorna because he really send waves after waves of men to die in frontal assaults but really basically every general did that and in my opinion there are worst generals(Enver and Konrad for examples, they did far worse disasters, Konrad lost over 1 milion and half men in Galizia)
In the 12th battle of the Izonso, Cadorna gave this to meeee: 12 failed offensives 11 decimations 10 avalanches 9 sacked officers 8 explosions on the rock that scarred my face 7 mountains to climb 6 Austrian divisions to face 5 pair of beds for 300 people 4 court martial 3 landslides 2 Failed offensives by Conrad von Hotzendorf And a 1 Benito Mussolini!!! 🎶🎶
5 battles won by italians, 3 for the austro hungarians and 2 inconclusive on the isonzo
@@bjbl1422 Quite correct, but sadly it doesn't rhyme very well. :(
It's perfect
Have I ever told you the definition of insanity?
To understand the mind set of Cadorna you need to know that like the majority of high ranking officers he beloged to the upper class. He blatantly despised the poor, farmers & workers. Therefore he didn't give a SHT about their lifes. Moreover he was a fanatic follower of Clausewitz and the idea that enemy forces should have been destroyed in order to win the war. He was not the only one in Europe. Many "generals" like him did not bother studying the US Civil War wich already contained all elements of the modern armed conflicts.
13:33 i myself live in Vrtojba (Vertoiba) and have dug a bit about what happened here during ww1. Turns out the italians bombarded us so heavily that the only thing remaining intact was a hospital. Everything else was levelled with the ground.
Given the upcoming WW1 game based on the Italian front named after the Isonzo River, this video feels extremely quaint. Edit: I’m surprised you never mentioned the time Luigi happened upon enemy intel on a boot…and concluded that it was a ruse, only to be attacked *exactly* like that intel.
i remember how my 5th grade teacher talked about the battle of the isonzo river (in slovenia we call it soča) and how it was a bloodshead and how most of the slovenian farmers were just sent there to fight
Kruta je bila naša preteklost tovariš. Bog daj da se nikoli več ne bomo pobijali med sabo. Srečno pa adijo
Hi,just returned from Slovenia
Lijep pozdrav Sloveniji. Živjeli drugovi! :)
@@bojanbukovski1995 Tovariš? Pazi da ne padeš v pest najbolj krutih ideologij in ljudi ki še danes hodijo po hodnikih v Vinko Glanzovi stavbi. Borba za svobodo Slovenskih ljudi še ni konec.
“Poor predictable Italy, he’s gonna probably launch another frontal assault along the Isonzo River.” “Frontal assault against the Isonzo River, never fails!”
"Poor predictable Entente, they probably launch another frontal attack in the no man land" "Frontal assault in no man land, never fails!" Or "Poor predictable 'murica, he is probably launch another search and destroy mission through the jungle" "search and destroy mission through the jungle, never fails!"
This is amazing storytelling, was a fan before now I am just amazed how you managed to put so much informative history about my country into 21:28. Congrats from Slovenia.
Rommel would capture over 9000 Italians with only a company sized unit of stormtroopers in the 12th battle, which he still considered his greatest moment even by ww2
Over 9000????
He didn't really capture them, so much as he simply... walked over to the Italian lines, alone, and talked them into surrender! Rommel returned to his men on the shoulders of the cheering Italians
@@Sierra026 ?????
@ commenter: that "won alone against the austro hungarians". Well there are things that need to be said about that: 1: When newspapers said that germany had given up, hungarians and czechs walked off towards home. And 2: by the time the italian offense started pushing the rests of the A-H army really back, defeating it, the austro hungarian army had adhered to the negotiated amristice and thus stopped fighting. After the negotiations at Villa Giusti, when the austro hungarian side had signed the armistice, the telephone line to vienna was cut, and the italian side added a few important things. Most prominently that it would only take effect at 3pm the next day. (When the austrian side protested, that was not agreed on, an they would need to inform their troops about that change, the italian argument was that they could not reach their own troops earlier and that they had already signed the treaty.) So the Austro Hungarian informed their troops to stop fighting like originally negotiated immediately, the italian side did not, waiting another day to try to gain as much territory as possible. Sadly this is a point that gets seldom talked about, and it's not really present on wikipedia anymore. (the english site covering it even makes it seem tlike the austrians made the decision to stopp earlier by their own idea after signing. They weren't eager to fight anymore, but they weren't idiots. They knew what would happen if only one side would stop, hence the negotiations.) Also the treaty gave austria-hungary 15 days to leave former italian territory. Which also basically was ignored by the italian army. (All this was basiaclly the italian leaders trying to make themselves look good at home.)
@@nirfz the time of the cease-fire was agreed by both parties and it's in the actual armistice. According to an historian, it was actually postponed also because the Italian Army would not know how to deal with the humanitarian chaos, and it was necessary to let the disbanded AH army to get refuge beyond the Brenner. The chaos was such that an Italian unit had to go to Innsbruck to restore order because A-H disbanded troops were sacking the town. As an old German-speaking Italian told my family in the Bolzano province, the Italians would have arrived to Vienna if they had wanted, because there was total chaos in the A-H army. What you say about territory gains and ambiguity about time of cease-fire is totally incorrect, and it's a fairy tale invented by the Austrians after the defeat. The armistice clearly states that the cease-fire was to become effective on November 4th, 15:00 hours. The A-H was so completely disbanded that every order to cease fire was in any case irrelevant, the front line having broken since October 28th, and the A-H having stopped fighting since, and not because of an order than nobody would give before the armistice is actually signed (I hope you understand how absurd is this position, somebody giving the entire Army an order to cease fire before the cease fire is agreed). Also, the provisory line between Italy and Austria was defined, in the Armistice, at the Brenner so it's no use saying that Italy occupied the territory south of the Brenner because the A-H army was not fighting: fight or not, that was the line defined in the Armistice, which means the A-H would have in any case abandoned those positions after the cease-fire, and again, if it were for the resistance of A-H Army, the Italians could have occupied Graz and Salzburg in no time. Don't believe fairy tales that have no basis in history.
As an Austrian I have to say, that the Oida thrown in there is a really nice touch
what does it mean? some sort of austrian slang??
@@wt380 slang word for dude
My Grandfather Giuseppe Podesta won the Highest decoration ... " Golden Medal to Military Valour " , Italy's " Victoria Cross " . He was a voluntary Infantry Soldier for the Alps and for Africa. He was a tall handsome man ...he lived the rest of his life with a small piece of shrapnel embedded on his right temple.
As a Slovene i appreciate you telling that also our people were victims of this senseless war.
Ah yes. The Battles of the Isonzo, led by the brilliance of Luigi "All Italians Must Die" Cadorna...
On the Great War channel, you hear every now and then about a slaughter at the isonso. This video puts it more into context. So sad. Thank you for your historical work
I actually thought TGW did a good job of emphasizing the (as I would call it) murderous stupidity of Cadorna with his repetitive battles of the isonzo and draconic disciplinary measures. search for TGW Cadorna and you already find some examples.
M Grandfather had fought at Isonzo in 1917 until he fell ill with dysentery illness, he almost died there, but managed to live until 1984. I never met him, but my Dad always told me stories about where he fought in the two wars and about his PTSD, when he jumped up in the middle of the night in his 80s, believing he was still there fighting. Great Content, looking forward to the Video about the Brusilov Offensive! And yes, my Granddad was there too.
Fun fact: Mount Škabrijel (San Gabriele) is considered to be one of the bloodiest battles in ww1 due to the sheer ammounts of casualties sustained in such a small ammount of time and space - a reported 32000 casualties and 81artillery shells per square metre fired in just a few days
This video thumbnail tells you exactly what kind of video this is gonna be, history learning, BUT WITH A TWIST!
I remember this from the biggest WW1 fails video, madness this man remained a a general
Slovenian poet S. Gregorcic wrote a poem ''To Isonzo'' (Soči) as a dedication to the river's Beauty; in which he wrote about that ''the Isonzo river is going to flow with blood'' and that ''lead hail will be falling above it''. 9 years after his death... the 1st Isonzo battle started.
I watched 2 or 3 videos and man you are way better than at least one other animated history channel.
It WAS insane, but no one to this day has yet been able to say what in God's name that butcher of Cadorna should have done rather than bashing our poor soldiers at the Austro-Hungarian to keep them from reinforcing other fronts. Also considering the front was largely mountainous and dominated by enemy fortifications. Personally I'd have concentrated in reducing the Trentino rather than attacking east to Trieste and the Isonzo, which was very predictable.
should have stayed out of the war but at least their naked attempt at being a colonial power was more honest than others. Thats something.... maybe.
@@garyp3472 that's the key: not taking part would have been the most sensible move. But Italy's growing industry depended painfully from British coal.
he could have dug in and stayed defensive on the Austrian front and then sent most of his men to help the Entente on other fronts. not sure how feasible this was but that’s one idea
@@qaiser648 that would deny the very reason Italy entered the war for: completing its unification with Trento & Trieste.
Invade Trieste by sea
Great episode, thank you for bringing under the spotlight this WW1 sideshow. This war is the most important in my country’s history and is often neglected in the great picture of WW1. The head butting on the Isonzo was a waste of way too many brave men. Cadorna was a butcher and a criminal for how he treated his men, even before sending them to die. I’ve always been amazed how brave our soldiers were, how they were willing to get killed… That’s sad. The state of the army was abysmal, the leadership was incompetent and ineffective, that’s why Caporetto happened. Ironically, Italy heightened herself in defeat after Caporetto, but we completely acted like jerks in victory after Vittorio Veneto, clubbing an enemy that was not fighting anymore and about to surrender. I’m writing from Gorizia, I advice you to visit this lovely city and visit the trenches in the Carso area, while enjoying our mountains.
France and Italy are blessed with the bravest of men but the most uncaring of leaders. Tears my heart to hear the stories of failed Italian military operations that were solely caused by the miss-management of human and general resources by generals, politicians, and other "leaders." For two countries who have produced the best leaders in human history (Napoleon and Caesar), the vast majority are incompetent and plagued by irresponsibility.
@@vivelafrance6314 I couldn’t have said it in a better way. What got us both screwed was that sense of hubris, the social immobility, the stagnation of the way of seeing the world. Few reap the fruits cultivated with the blood of untold hundreds of thousands of people. We felt like we lost the war, even in victory there’s no consolation. The Italian hawks wanted to complete the unification of Italy, all the Adriatic, a good chunk of (now ex) Yugoslavia and what we got in return was 600 000 deaths, hunger, instability and fascism. That’s definitely a defeat for me
@@vivelafrance6314 Slovenians were recruted on both sides and were forced to fight because of imperial boots
@@commenter4190 vivi in una fantasia se lo credi davvero. Questo lo insegnavano ai nostri nonni, ma non è la realtà
@@commenter4190 ti spiego entro dopodomani. Aspetta la risposta
cardona was a -5 attack general
The father of my grandmother (mother side) had a brother. Both were drafted, my great grandfather having also experience from the Libyan war and went to the front. At Caporetto, his brother was killed. Legend in the family has it that before the day earlier of Caporetto assault, my great grandfather took his bicycle and went to visit his brother at night, and then went back to his trenches on a different spot, risking big for such insubordination. Probably a legend, but makes you wonder what base of truth hides behind it.
"After this completely devastating defeat one would think that Luigi Cadorna would consult with his staff and devise a new strategy, but fun fact: no."
Aah I know this one. A man of culture
Luigi took too seriously the quote: "repetition is the mother of skill"
On the border of Italy and Austria, there are thousands of ghost awaiting the 14th assault
I remember watching Indy Neidell, year after year. Cadorna is a name that has resonated in my brain ever since...
Fantastic video as usual. The landscape depicted was fantastic in helping to create an image in our mind. Isonzo is such an interesting subject, in huge part to the stupidity of Italian attackers but also incredible spirit and will of the regular Italian soldiers. Also interesting timing as more and more intel is revealed to us by the ww1 games series on the newest installment in the series, the Isonzo. Is there a correlation, an inspiration or simply a coincidence? Maybe you guys should do a collab of some kind?
"I am sorry, I don't like the way you are looking. Ok?" Luigi Cadorna to Armando Diaz, seconds before being sacked
Love the Far Cry 3 thumbnail! That's a bonus as all your videos are amazing as well as very entertaining and informative
As The Great War unfolded week by week on the Great War channel, and Indy continued to tell viewers about Luigi Cadorna’s asinine ideas, strategies, and offensives, I continued to be completely baffled at how he not only stayed in power, but how anyone could be so incompetent a general. And even with all that, he might not even be the worst general of the war. ... sigh. The number of horrendous military leaders in WW1 who got 10’s of thousands or more killed truly boggles the mind.
The animations have improved very much and the content too! Complimenti!
Little known historical fact: Cadorna was promised that if he fought ten battles for the Isonzo river, he would receive a free pizza.
Did he receive the pizza?
@The Philosoraptor yes, but it was pepperoni pizza.
Considering how bad were the conditions of the soldiers in the front, and their food as well, a pizza might have looked like a king's meal 😋
That is the most Italian thing I think I ever heard whether it's true or not.
@The Philosoraptor a small price to pay for salv- pizza
Without a doubt one of the best thumbnails I’ve seen on a history video
I live in Slovenia in the part where the battles happened to this day I still see scars of those battles. It’s also so weird hearing the names of towns hills villages and landscape that you have known for all of your life being said by a famous KZheadr
I love it when Griffin covers World War 1 battles in his channel.
My great grandfather Matteo was a italian conscript in the austro-hungarian army from Istria, as far as we know he fought in the Alps. Thirty years later, his son, my grandfather Giovanni, fought for Italy. Ironic.
You make really interesting good videos. I learned a lot historically. Greetings from Switzerland
Thanks for a great presentation.
Dear Armchair Historian, could you please make a video about the evolution of Italian uniforms?
im pretty sure they're already working on it
I've been waiting for this for a really long time now, I would absolutely adore when they included the Italian bersaglieri
Reminds of that one scene from Black Adder during that war room scene with General Melchett
Nice Macbeth reference at the end! Always thought the Italian Front was the most interesting part of the war. Perhaps a sequel video on the Battle of Vittorio Veneto is in order?