How Prussia Won the 1866 Austro-Prussian War (no, it wasn’t just because of the needle rifle)

2024 ж. 5 Мам.
59 897 Рет қаралды

The famous Prussian needle rifle (Dreyse Zündnadelgewehr) was an amazingly modern weapon, technologically advanced, and massively superior to any other infantry weapon at the time… in the 1840s when it was adopted, that is.
By 1866 the thing was crude, obsolete, and starting to become a dangerous liability.
Yet the Prussians won handily against the Austrian Empire, routing the Austrians at Königgrätz, and establishing a new hegemony for Central Europe that would dramatically affect the course of world history right up to the present day.
In the most exciting 58 minutes of content on the entire KZhead platform, I will make almost everybody mad by explaining why Prussia won for many reasons, and not just because they had a gun that could shoot pretty fast.

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  • Great video, loved the intro showing the Dreyse's needle rifle's superiority. While the telegraph and logistics definitely played a large part, there was ample miscommunication between the Prussian army groups, and Moltke eventually ended up travelling towards Bohemia right before Königgrätz not because that was a predetermined strategy, but because he realised he was receiving information which, by the time he received it, was outdated up to 24 hours. Keep up the great work, this is such an interesting time period!

    @HoH@HoH11 күн бұрын
    • Thanks! I love your channel. When anyone asks me for a good resource to explain the Austro Prussian War and especially Königgrätz campaign, I send them to your videos. The animations make the complexities of the battles and movements super easy to understand.

      @papercartridges6705@papercartridges670511 күн бұрын
    • What a coincidence. I was just planning to comment how this interesting video taught me extra insights for the amazing House of history series I recently watched on the Austrian-Prussian War.

      @Thomas_Name@Thomas_Name10 күн бұрын
    • I wonder if House Of History is planning a series on the Franco-Prussian War?

      @Thomas_Name@Thomas_Name10 күн бұрын
    • "not because that was a predetermined strategy, but because he realised he was receiving information which, by the time he received it, was outdated up to 24 hours." Look, if you understood that Moltke contributed a lot to Auftragstactik then you would not make such a comment. It was perfectly clear for him - look at his comments from around 1857 on the topic - that leading from distance does not work. Therefore, he gave his army commanders general orders at the beginning of the campaign, the details, which included changes of the "plan" were their job. Being near the front was an advantage he understood long before the war....

      @olafkunert3714@olafkunert37149 күн бұрын
    • @@olafkunert3714 Sure, but his commanders, especially Prince Friedrich Karl completely ignored their original instructions in an attempt to attain a Kesselschlacht by themselves. It led to delays, confusion, and eventually requiring Moltke, Bismarck and the King to move towards Bohemia because they had no clear picture of what was going on anymore.

      @HoH@HoH9 күн бұрын
  • Trains, Telegraph and logistics

    @MrPh30@MrPh3012 күн бұрын
    • artillery and von moltke helped too

      @jerrysmooth24@jerrysmooth2412 күн бұрын
    • Pretty much. Moltke directed the entire invasion by telegraph from Berlin and only went to Bohemia right before the concentration of the army and Königgrätz. That is just incredible. Moltke also definitely learned a bit from how Grant directed the U.S. armies from City Point by telegraph.

      @papercartridges6705@papercartridges670512 күн бұрын
    • I was going to issue my predictions but it was already the top comment.

      @NikovK@NikovK11 күн бұрын
    • The Prussians also learned a lot from our mistakes, which were frequent, egregious, and silly. See Combined Strategy in the Civil War by Rowena Reed for my personal favorite example, which is the astonishing lack of ANY coherent Union strategy in the middle half of the war. Somewhere there's a good article about how Prussian officers were interested in learning from our errors.​@@papercartridges6705

      @aaronrider4051@aaronrider405111 күн бұрын
    • Because morale is automatically gained, if you have advantage in trains and telegraphs?

      @bakters@bakters11 күн бұрын
  • You call this "a little dry"? Sir, do you know your audience? It was riveting from beginning to end, and left me wanting more:)

    @VikingTeddy@VikingTeddy12 күн бұрын
    • agreed on all parts.

      @sinisterthoughts2896@sinisterthoughts289612 күн бұрын
    • I completely agree.

      @martino7263@martino726312 күн бұрын
    • I watched some part twice it’s good

      @geraltsnake395@geraltsnake39519 сағат бұрын
  • So i, an austrian born and bred, hear the following story which resonates with my modern austrian self-image very much: kaiser franz saw the british use fire tactics and equips the austrian army with the tool to do it (austrian institutions are pretty decent at technological solutions). The austrian army gets the impossible mission to make riflemen out of their diverse conscripts and not only did nobody dare to contradict the kaiser (austrian institutional culture does not encourage contradicting superiors). When it became apparent that they failed in italy, they also didn’t admit they failed, but but blamed it on the french shock tactics being better than their own fire tactics (which weren’t fire tactics at all. Austrian institutional culture encourages covering your own backside to admitting failure and actually fostering learning). And the confirmation bias from denmark, well that fits the picture

    @rafale1981@rafale19819 күн бұрын
  • I was just searching for a long form interesting history piece to listen to while I do some garden work and then you drop this! Noice!

    @minisforerbody@minisforerbody12 күн бұрын
    • I was hitting the treadmill lol It's perfect

      @emoryzakin2576@emoryzakin257612 күн бұрын
  • I think this is by far the best source on weapons and tactics of the 19th century on KZhead. You do absolutely fantastic work. And it was by no means "dry", I almost felt like being on the battlefield myself, watching the horrors of being "shot to ribbons". War is hell, indeed!

    @kanonierable@kanonierable12 күн бұрын
    • Other channels with a serious approach to history of arms/tactics of this era that you might also find interesting are Britishmuzzleloaders, Capandball, Bloke on the Range, the Royal Armouries, just to name a few!

      @papercartridges6705@papercartridges670512 күн бұрын
    • Agreed. I enjoy those other channels a lot, but this one is a little bit better. I like the simple and direct presentation style and attention to small details

      @KI.765@KI.76511 күн бұрын
  • “ the last 100 yards of the battlefield belongs to the Infantry “

    @86sather@86sather12 күн бұрын
  • So, as I understand it, the Prussians had the 1850s-1860s equivalent of an army armed with submachine guns.

    @kevinmarrett9532@kevinmarrett953211 күн бұрын
    • Fast-firing but inaccurate, utterly ineffective at long range. Yeah, it checks.

      @vicroc4@vicroc411 күн бұрын
    • @@vicroc4is it less accurate than a muzzle loader though?

      @MarkMuhammad190@MarkMuhammad1906 күн бұрын
    • @MarkMuhammad190 Less accurate than a Minié style rifle at least (or a Lorenz) - that's what was implied in the video. Certainly the tactics applied by the Prussians wouldn't have involved getting close enough that even smoothbores wouldn't have a problem if the accuracy was up to snuff.

      @vicroc4@vicroc45 күн бұрын
    • What kind of projectile does the needle rifle use?

      @janremongalura5713@janremongalura57135 күн бұрын
    • ​@@janremongalura5713It used a rather weird acorn shaped bullet of .60 caliber encased in a paper sabot. When it was invented it was a rather small bore, by the end of its service life it was definitely a big bore, with the profusion of small bore breechloaders that has been invented.

      @HaNsWiDjAjA@HaNsWiDjAjA5 күн бұрын
  • I was going to say that someone has read “the destroying angel” but after some googling turns out you wrote it! I read it the other week and thought it was serendipitous that I see a video on the subject.

    @joeyfreeman5052@joeyfreeman505212 күн бұрын
  • Oh boy another 1 hour video on esoteric mid Victorian musketry

    @Operator_Inquiries@Operator_Inquiries12 күн бұрын
    • I see you also keep up on the recent video uploads...

      @brentp201@brentp20112 күн бұрын
    • Can't wait to watch it!

      @PassiveMeasures@PassiveMeasures5 күн бұрын
  • Wonderful! Even more important than the specifics of the Lorenz vs. the Dreyse is the exposition of the typical mistake historians make in interpreting events out of context and as a way to support their biases (and Generals are historians when they consider past battles). Fantastic work, Brett, as always.

    @Schlachtschule@Schlachtschule12 күн бұрын
  • Thank you for this video! I appreciate the History of the 19th Century a bit more. Love from the Philippines 🇵🇭

    @SacredHeartEnjoyer@SacredHeartEnjoyer12 күн бұрын
  • I never knew about this tactic of `stoss-tactic’, all I knew from other documentation was, that you load and shoot the needle rifle while laying down and so give the opponent a lower target profile. This was probably the advantage of the needle rifle in comparison with the muskets. I really feel sorrow for all the brothers and sisters who died in this war.

    @200165U@200165U12 күн бұрын
    • LOL @ Surrenderistan and the Lehohohns!

      @brianmead7556@brianmead755612 күн бұрын
    • Shooting position and the presented target profile are but a different facet of what he's talking about, though. If your doctrine is to march close than beat them back throgh the weight of your fire, you'll want to take as much cover, present as small a target as possible, sure. But you'll also probably want to cram as many man into as little frontage as possible to increase said weight of fire, so you'll have soldiers laying down, crouching and standing all all at once anyway. On the other hand, if your doctrine is to march close, give supressive fire or a spoiling volley, then press home the charge with the bayonet, taking cover is a straight up detriment. It delays the charge and gives the enemy time to recover, probably disrupts the line and thus softens the punch when it connects. Sounds to me like, were the guns switched between the two sides with the doctrine staying the same, the Austrians would still shoot standing up, and the Prussians sprawled out in whatever position they could get away with.

      @IkomaKoma@IkomaKoma7 күн бұрын
    • @@IkomaKoma I agree with you.

      @200165U@200165U7 күн бұрын
  • just went through gettysburg last month shame you were out woulda loved to stop by and say hello!

    @jrweischedel249@jrweischedel24912 күн бұрын
  • The Dreyse was the coolest, most bestest gun ever, until john browning made the 1911, which was so good they named a year after it.

    @jordanandrew2786@jordanandrew278610 күн бұрын
  • Another brilliant Brett production - well-informed, well-paced and filled with and accurate assessment of two contemporary but very different 'takes' on the infantry rifle of the day.

    @tacfoley4443@tacfoley444312 күн бұрын
  • This video should be shown in schools and universities, fantastic overview.

    @magicchowder@magicchowder12 күн бұрын
  • phenomenal presentation, thank you for taking the time to share your research and observations. stay safe out there.

    @sinisterthoughts2896@sinisterthoughts289612 күн бұрын
  • Thank you for your service sir! Get back home safe !

    @calebsewell7195@calebsewell719512 күн бұрын
  • Love when your videos drop, Major. Looking forward to paying you a visit in July while I’m in town for a preservation march.

    @MusketMan1997@MusketMan199712 күн бұрын
  • Another excellent presentation. Thank you.

    @jharchery4117@jharchery411712 күн бұрын
  • so, they Dreyse is responsible for the victory less from a technological standpoint, and more from forcing the evolution of strategy. though of course its unique performance gave that new strategy something to work with. it goes to show strategy is one of the most decisive tools.

    @sinisterthoughts2896@sinisterthoughts289612 күн бұрын
    • "and more from forcing the evolution of strategy." forcing the evolution of TACTICS. Yes, of course. However, it was hard or practically impossible to counter in large battles the effect of the Dreyse with Minie rifles.

      @olafkunert3714@olafkunert371412 күн бұрын
  • I love this kind of content of your, please make more, this changed my perspective and added great insights in this underrated yet very important war

    @hanslopez910@hanslopez91012 күн бұрын
  • A very enjoyable and informative talk Brett. Thank you.

    @rickymherbert2899@rickymherbert28999 күн бұрын
  • It is nice to see how innovation was borne out by limitation. The Prussians didn't come up with new organisation and CC out of curiosity, but because they realised they had a substantial disadvantage that they had to mitigate.

    @pagclaud@pagclaud6 күн бұрын
  • Wow! Well done professor! Great lesson(s)!

    @karsonbranham3900@karsonbranham390012 күн бұрын
  • Excellent video, love the focus on the less thought of details that ties in great with the gun info

    @KI.765@KI.76511 күн бұрын
  • Very important insights not generally available very well done

    @JohnOuthwaite-ew3gb@JohnOuthwaite-ew3gb12 күн бұрын
  • Excellent video! Its clear that you have a real passion for the subject matter and it makes watching you talk for an hour go by like a breeze! I love learning about history, and being in the military myself, i especially like to explore the nitty gritty details, like the equipments used, the training, the uniforms etc and imagine how it must have been for the average grunts at the time. It was very interesting to see the live action demonstration of the rifles used in this conflict, and hear you talk about the SOPs as it were of the factions involved. The various pictures of the uniforms and troops involved was also a great addition.

    @Edimonde@Edimonde5 күн бұрын
    • Thanks glad you enjoyed it!

      @papercartridges6705@papercartridges67055 күн бұрын
  • Entertaining and informative! Great video Brett!

    @tomji3148@tomji31485 күн бұрын
  • Very interesting and scholarly, thanks Major! Stay safe and I’m looking forward to the summer and your new content from Pennsylvania! Greetings from Suffolk 🏴󠁧󠁢󠁥󠁮󠁧󠁿

    @ianseddon9347@ianseddon934711 күн бұрын
  • Excellent work. Thanks

    @maxpower6765@maxpower676512 күн бұрын
  • Another great video as always

    @LoderryPlaysPVP@LoderryPlaysPVP6 күн бұрын
  • Fascinating video, thank you.

    @BoerChris@BoerChris8 күн бұрын
  • Magnificent summary 👏

    @thebotrchap@thebotrchap12 күн бұрын
  • WIE ES EIGENTLICH _WAR_ VERDAMMTNOCHMAL! :) great stuff.

    @sierrahun1@sierrahun111 күн бұрын
  • This video communicates important ideas that rely on numerous underlying and interacting factors. And it presents them in a very accessible way. Thank you for making it. I had a very cursory grasp of some of the material before, but this has enriched that very efficiently.

    @ATerafinLoyalty@ATerafinLoyaltyКүн бұрын
  • Great video and great military history. Keep up the good work.

    @PghGraybeard@PghGraybeard6 күн бұрын
  • Excellent video, thank you

    @Ccccccccccsssssssssss@Ccccccccccsssssssssss12 күн бұрын
  • "Drauflosgehen" or as it as modernly exclaimed as "fuck it, we ball"

    @ethanmullane1987@ethanmullane19874 күн бұрын
  • Excellent! As always love the theme song!!!

    @Bryan-2DECoGCrazyDelawares@Bryan-2DECoGCrazyDelawares12 күн бұрын
  • Excellent analysis and I love the depth of this video. Putting everything into its social, doctrinal, and technological frame is a very valuable decision and I have no doubt that your research for this topic took a great amount of effort. Thank you for sharing this! Und Grüße aus dem Vaterland! Ihr Deutsch ist prächtig!

    @erloriel@erloriel11 күн бұрын
  • Awesome detailed video, as an Austrian myself the war of 1866 is a quite interresting yet painful topic for me. Very good coverage of doctrine beyond the rifles.

    @Downloadguy1995@Downloadguy19958 күн бұрын
  • I’ve just read ‘The Destroying Angel’ and it’s absolutely brilliant. Very well written I thought Brett. Great work

    @philhardy18@philhardy189 күн бұрын
  • Great talk!

    @RonLWilson@RonLWilson12 күн бұрын
  • Glad to see another video!! It’s always interesting to learn more about European warfare in this time since my focus has always been on the American civil war. Always looking forward to any content you might release here. And of course it wouldn’t a Paper Cartridge video without your friend in the background. I hope these last few months fly by and your able to return home safely.

    @warwolf416@warwolf41611 күн бұрын
  • Not a bad rifle at all and pointed the way forward, but with black powder and no cartridges i wouldn't want one after a dozen shots.

    @TheGrenadier97@TheGrenadier9712 күн бұрын
  • Bayonet "wounds" are rare because they were invariably fatal in the pre-20th century battlefield. Having said that, the casualty rate for the bayonet is very low compared to gunfire since, as you said, the enemy would normally break before the two sides closed to hand to hand range.

    @charleslemons3111@charleslemons311111 күн бұрын
    • Confidence is directly proportional to the distance of the opposition.

      @ravenoferin500@ravenoferin5004 күн бұрын
  • Excellent! A masterful assessment.

    @Ricimer671@Ricimer6719 күн бұрын
  • Really enjoyed this

    @benjamintrejo9307@benjamintrejo93076 күн бұрын
  • Great video. I would like to see a video comparing the technology and tactics in Europe vs US civil war.

    @fredsmit3481@fredsmit348112 күн бұрын
  • I loved your video. You said at the end it might've been a little dry but honestly quite the opposite. Usually I watch videos in the back like a podcast but this one I watched "porperly" I guess im a bit more involved as a saxon myself. You are one of the few that explain things indepth showing the background of things and from both perspectives. I can even use some of the things you talked about to adapt them for my personal projects. Great video that's all I can say really.

    @vonLindenau@vonLindenau11 күн бұрын
  • Excellent Presentation 👍👍👍

    @robertmills8640@robertmills864010 күн бұрын
  • Manuver and use of tactics conformed to soldier and equipment have always and will always win wars. Magnificent video gave a real insight into this war bravo.

    @wisconsinkraut3445@wisconsinkraut34458 күн бұрын
  • Rich, detailed, and very fully contextualised: and the reason that it's not dry is that there is an active strand of enquiry animating the whole thing. And, finally, that it's not just all directed to neat take aways and Lessons Learned, but there's still the awareness that often the outcomes are due to sheer contingency, and that things could have gone otherwise -- even although the Austrians didn't (? couldn't) change their tactics to make the most of their main weapon.

    @michaelwright2986@michaelwright298612 күн бұрын
  • Dude ...... that was epic. You call it dry. You are mistaken, humbly mistaken. I was getting a little bit excited as that final battle unfolded in your words. So good. Please proceed. Thank you, Gus.

    @gussie88bunny@gussie88bunny11 күн бұрын
  • Great presentation ! Greetings from Czech republic

    @Lohengrin1987@Lohengrin198712 күн бұрын
  • Just demonstrates that things are never as simple as they might seem and a proper detailed analysis is how you should reach conclusions. Great video as always, with excellent primary source material.

    @colinarmstrong1892@colinarmstrong189210 күн бұрын
  • Excellent presentation. Like most things, the truth is usually much more complicated than what we think we know.

    @carlinglin7289@carlinglin728912 күн бұрын
  • Very good analysis. Loved it. Funny thing is, I was thinking about General Melchett's tactics just before you mentioned him.

    @FelixstoweFoamForge@FelixstoweFoamForge8 күн бұрын
  • Very insightful, think youll have 100k subs one day easy if all ur videos as good as this, keep it up bro

    @My_cool0@My_cool011 күн бұрын
  • Not dry very interesting! Cheers mate!

    @johnsamsungs7570@johnsamsungs757012 күн бұрын
  • Great Video! You got my Sub! All Best to you! Greets from prussia´s greatest archievment, Gemany :D

    @P4Tri0t420@P4Tri0t4202 күн бұрын
    • Vielen Dank!

      @papercartridges6705@papercartridges67052 күн бұрын
  • Great video

    @max4750@max475012 күн бұрын
  • From what I understand in total war terms, the Prussians set thier units into spread out formations so the enemy fire was much less effective, once they were within range and charging range, these formations were united again under various rally points to volley fire mad minute style then charge with melee mode on?

    @smug9471@smug94715 күн бұрын
  • What a great video! Especially in terms of research. Would love to see a similar video about the Franco-Prussian War. P.S.: Nice to see that there are still some people who can transcribe Frakturschrift. Quite rare these days.

    @dorbomer8835@dorbomer883521 сағат бұрын
    • Glad you enjoyed it. I can read Fraktur as smoothly as any other text. Unfortunately, this is not a very marketable skill…

      @papercartridges6705@papercartridges670518 сағат бұрын
  • Great video! Just an FYI - your voice is very quiet in this video, it might be worth looking into the levels. Good stuff, keep it up.

    @SilencedMi5@SilencedMi512 күн бұрын
  • As Melchett would say, "Baaaaaahhhh!" Great video presentation!

    @misters86@misters8610 күн бұрын
  • Great video. Some of the concepts and issues were also occurring when matchlock firearms themselves were entering into widespread use, they were not wonder-weapons on their own (although highly effective in their context) but had to be used as part of a bigger military system

    @Corvinuswargaming1444@Corvinuswargaming144411 күн бұрын
  • wow great video - impressive

    @andybarth5928@andybarth59288 күн бұрын
  • I really enjoyed your perspective on the Dreyse versus the Lorenz. If you ever need a real German to translate I am happy to help. Couple of observations I wanted to share with you. We got a dreyse 41 and we are working on the original treibspiegel. We are using newspaper paper about one meter long , wrapping it. We are doing it over and over again- but it is rather difficult to get a satisfying result, however my son reach a point were he is getting now decent results. And we noticed a better treibspiegel gets better accuracy. Also we did not noticed much fauling as you mentioned and I am wondering if it had to do with the treibspiegel you are using. We shot over the winter and we also saw that our treibspiegel shredded to very small pieces in the snow unlike what you saw. I personally think that a dreyse is verse sensitive to what you are using as a treibspiegel and you might improve on accuracy the closer you get to the original Kartusche. I also believe that a dreyse is more simple than other black powder guns- you don’t need tools and I believe that the treibspiegel is removing almost all the fouling from the barrel. What I am not quite sure is on how much the the treibspiegel and the bullet is engaging with the deep rifling of the dreyse. I am sure that the explosion is pushing the treibspiegel and the langblei out of the barrel - however i am not convinced that it is a synchronized move. Accuracy will suffer if it is not. As a structural engineer I do like the original treibspiegel design as long as you get it tight. To me a hole in the treibspiegel will cause the langblei to be pushed out of the barrel faster than the treibspiegel resulting in bullets that do not spin and the wrapped newspaper creates a rather strong bond 90 degree against the force of the explosion. Our goal is to get a hold of an original Lorenz - we are curious especially my son Otto if it is really as good as you say. I am wondering if the Lorenz has already the progressive rifeling. My son is your biggest fan- keep doing what you are doing. It’s wonderful to get to know you in this digital way.

    @marcobader6924@marcobader69249 күн бұрын
  • Nice presentation. However, IMHO you miss one important aspect: Even without Schocktaktik the Austrian infantry would be between a rock and a hard place. It is very hard on a normal battlefield to use your higher range of your rifle when the enemy can use skirmishers in larger numbers who, this is important, can operate their rifles from a kneeling or even better from a lying position. The point is, that even a more defensive Austrian infantry, trying to use fire tactics themself, would be defeated by higher fire rate of the Prussians. The Britsh example is IMHO misleading as they fought against enemies in more or less compact fromations. A Prussian artillery officer, see in Müller (1873) "Geschichte der Preußischen Feldartillerie" admitted that the Prussian infantry could attack Austran positions in 1866 without proper coordination with artilery, this because of the Dreyse rifle, only 1870/71 when the table was turned due to the new French Chassepot rifle, a combined arms concept was essential for the Prusssian infantry. You are correct, that the accuracy of the Dreyse rifle was not great, but without a practicle concept to counter the high rate of fire, the point is even for me too academic. 🙂

    @olafkunert3714@olafkunert371412 күн бұрын
    • An interesting case study is the Bavarians in the Main campaign, who had muzzleloaders and actually shot them, and gave the Prussians a pretty good thrashing. The Prussians took higher overall casualties, and the Bavarians never blamed their loss on the needle rifle. I may do a video on that. But to your point, I agree with you. I don’t see any way the Austrians win in 1866 without a fantastic stroke of random luck even if they did try shooting their Lorenzes.

      @papercartridges6705@papercartridges670512 күн бұрын
    • @@papercartridges6705 But the losses at Kissingen are listed as higher for the Bavarians according to more recent research however, 133 Prussians dead for 246 Bavarians dead. So even in this case, where the Prussians were assaulting a defensive position, there appears to be no inidication of muzzle loading rifles being superior. And ofcourse this is looking past the effect of both sides artillery in this battle.

      @hummingbird9149@hummingbird914912 күн бұрын
    • ​​​@@papercartridges6705 Please do make a video about it! It would probably help with the misconseption of Dreyse the "Wunderweapon". Also you never hear from the little German states. I would also love your take on "Why the North won the Civil war". Tactics etc.

      @santerinurminen7909@santerinurminen790912 күн бұрын
    • @@santerinurminen7909 In serious history Dreyse is not sold as Wunderwaffe, the Prussian advatage on the operational level was too high. The Prussian would have won with a Minie rifle, that with higher losses. But again, even Prussian officers admitted that the Dreyse gave the Prussian infantry a huge advantage. That the training of the Prussians was more important than the hardware becomes clear in the FPW of 1870/71 when Prussian infantry sometime defeated French infantry who had a much better rifle.

      @olafkunert3714@olafkunert371412 күн бұрын
  • I would also add that rifle role is a bit overestimated to this day. Because a little bit of well placed artillery can cause a lot more damage than hundreds of rifles.

    @xmeda@xmeda6 күн бұрын
  • Excellent treatise !.

    @PHERGUSberger-lk5dp@PHERGUSberger-lk5dp6 күн бұрын
  • Awesome job.

    @user-he3ip4eu6e@user-he3ip4eu6e12 күн бұрын
  • Great video, I appreciate a dry lecture sort of presentation as much as anything. I hear officers do a lot of PowerPoints nowadays, did those skills translate over?

    @Trashcansam123@Trashcansam1239 күн бұрын
  • This was quite interesting. I had a vague understanding of the Dreyse, but my understanding was that it was ahead of its time and had virtually won the Prussian-Austrian war as it permitted a soldier to fire much faster and open up the ability to do so from a prone position. I had no idea it had such intense drawbacks.

    @Lili_Chen2005@Lili_Chen200511 күн бұрын
  • Great picture showing the effect of fouling, must of been a few prussians missing eyebrows. Great work putting up the translations 🍻

    @squidgypoppet@squidgypoppet10 күн бұрын
  • Great video, sir. Thank you for taking the time to do it. It's videos and documentaries like this. Remind me of the old history channel from back in the day. Also, do you think you might do a video on the Bavarian Werder series of rifles and carbines. Possibly in the future? I know they were used by Bavarian forces alongside the Prussians in the Franco-Prussian War.

    @Jordan-hl4jn@Jordan-hl4jn10 күн бұрын
    • By their nature the Bavarian rifles are rare. At the top of my want list is an original unconverted 1858 Podewils rifle, but someday I would also like a 58/67 Lindner. Let me know if you encounter one! I would definitely do a video if I get my hands on one.

      @papercartridges6705@papercartridges670510 күн бұрын
  • great video as always! the sound is very low and even at max volume it is hard to hear you.

    @goblin11c95@goblin11c9512 күн бұрын
    • I need to figure out why. KZhead compresses the sound every time. It won’t let me adjust volume after I upload either.

      @papercartridges6705@papercartridges670512 күн бұрын
    • @@papercartridges6705 its always better to make the video to loud then to quiet. you can turn a loud video down but you can only turn a quiet video up so much. theres three ways i can suggest to increase the volume. 1. through your mic. 2. in your recording software. 3. in your editing software. basically you want the video to be way louder before it even gets to youtube.

      @goblin11c95@goblin11c9512 күн бұрын
    • @@papercartridges6705 I didn't find it anywhere near that quiet, I barely had to bump the volume to hear it very loud and clear. maybe it is the way these others listen to the video, ear buds vs computer speakers vs tv vs headset. more data might need to be gathered. for reference I listened on my PC via speakers.

      @sinisterthoughts2896@sinisterthoughts289612 күн бұрын
  • First class Brett. Held me spellbound to the end, even with pauses to read the text. Thank you. Hopefully next will be how the Prussians won the 1870 War with the worst rifle against the better French artillery - command and control ie the French lost the war rather than the Prussians won it. That should fire up some comments……

    @johnfisk811@johnfisk81112 күн бұрын
    • I thought Krupp guns were better than the French guns.

      @raptor4916@raptor491612 күн бұрын
    • Yeah I thought the consensus was that the French had the better rifle but the Prussians the better artillery

      @profesercreeper@profesercreeper11 күн бұрын
    • "the better French artillery" The Prussian artillery was better, at least the French had no concept to use the higher mobility of their guns into useful results on the battlefield.

      @olafkunert3714@olafkunert371411 күн бұрын
    • Huzzah. Got the subject debated as a start. Always the best way to get it going on the net is to post an incorrect fact. Yes the Prussian artillery was better technically and in doctrine and handling and promoted the development that led to the famous French soixante dix cinq whose last gasp was the M3 gun on the Sherman tank. Albeit there was nothing much left bar the shell case.

      @johnfisk811@johnfisk81110 күн бұрын
  • exceptionally good explanation of "Drauflosgehen" ;-)

    @budwow@budwow7 күн бұрын
  • Thank you, Mr. Paper Cartridges, Sir!

    @whodatsaddle@whodatsaddle11 күн бұрын
  • Thanks for the video, really interesting. (2 comments to simplify answer, 1st here) From France, and knowing a basic bit of the Chassepot and Dresde on mechanical and historic PoV : it seems that they have developed a great tactic to fix a weakness of their rifles and this tactics was perfect for the day "finally, we have breach loading *rifles*". And, I could be wrong, but it looks like it have shape in a positive way, for instance British Empire on their late 19th century battles with the Martini Henry, like, the famous battle where the Zulu charged in massive number, and the British with bit of this German tactic *crushed them*. And like you said, the 1870 Franco-Prussian war was a complex campaign, France had a good artillery that helped, but the tactical superioty and doctrine of fire helped them to win against a better firearm (that was talking (sort of) almost the same language, unlike the Austrian army)

    @Vin_San@Vin_San9 күн бұрын
  • Good video

    @wagon9082@wagon908211 күн бұрын
  • Excellent.... now to sound like an expert at the next arm chair general roundtable.

    @cheesenoodles8316@cheesenoodles83169 күн бұрын
  • I might be wrong. But I believe the superior rifle of the mid 1800s was the Spencer. Of course doesn't use a paper cartridge so it's not on the subject.

    @Nickrioblanco1@Nickrioblanco112 күн бұрын
    • Yes, the Spencer is pretty much better in every way, and makes the Dreyse look almost medieval in comparison.

      @papercartridges6705@papercartridges670512 күн бұрын
    • @@papercartridges6705 Yep, but the Prussias were well trained and could use their inferior weapon successfully against better hardware in 1870/71. And the Dreyse rifle was produced in larger numbers...

      @olafkunert3714@olafkunert371411 күн бұрын
  • Pleased to see a Blackadder reference.

    @lib556@lib55611 күн бұрын
  • Another outstanding video, building on your discussion of the effect of rifling (or lack of) on tactics and outcomes. Thank you for illuminating something I've always found puzzling about 19th century (especially American Civil War) tactics. Small quibble with concluding that Austria drew the 'wrong' conclusion from the Italian wars. If the the lesson was that, whatever the theoretical capability of the Lorenz, their their massive, multinational conscript army would never achieve a level of mastery of the Lorenz that would allow them to effectively use fire tactics, arguably they learned the correct lesson. Königgrätz, with what you argue was a near Austrian win based on shock tactics, support the idea that they made the best choice given their inherent limitations. Just as the Prussians made the best tactical choice given the limitations of the Dreyse. Sure, it didn't work out for the Austrians but it doesn't seem like they had a clear alternative.

    @josephdent7343@josephdent734310 күн бұрын
    • The well trained British soldier was of the same origin as the Prussian or the Austrian soldier might have been - son of a poor peasant or worker. Language(s) never were a problem in the Austro-Hungarian Empire. Austrians never trained their soldiers to the capacity of their Lorenz guns - unlike the British who trained their soldiers to the capacities of their Enfields. There had been no proper training on the Lorenz before Solferino and ever less than after. That is not due to the Austro-Hungarian soldier's nature but due to the nature of the ever obsolete Austro-Hungarian regime. You can train any soldier to everything but not if you *decide* on "Stoss-Taktik" and firing 20 training rounds *per year*.

      @stefankonig2426@stefankonig24268 күн бұрын
  • Thank You

    @MemorialRifleRange@MemorialRifleRange12 күн бұрын
  • Very interesting 📚

    @randomacousticthoughts@randomacousticthoughts5 күн бұрын
  • very informative video as always. the one point i would disagree with is the supposed superiority of the Lorenz (or any other rifled musket) over the Dreyse as i think it does not really hold up to historic evidence. The prussians used the Dreyse in three wars which they all won rather decisively. In these wars they mostly faced rifled muskets. no i did not forget about the chassepot, but by 1870 the french had not yet adapted the tactics necessary to play out its strenghts compared to the Dreyse. So no, the dreyse wasnt an early wonderweapon. But it was the superior concept for the fighting tactics and the time. And this is evidenced by the simple fact that by 1875 we see almost no major power still issuing rifle muskets but lots of them adopt breech loading, and often times bolt action style guns. And the range advantage of the rifled musket is in my opinion more of a technicality. As you adress in the Video, technically those rifles could hit accurately up to 600 yards. But training soldiers to shoot accurately at this distance is expensive, time consuming and even then probably only accessible for a small elite number of troops and not for the rank and file. So the rifled musket might win when used in skirmish tactics but certainly not in mass infranty combat. Heck even in WW1 the tipical small arms fighting distance did not exceed 200-300 yards. And that was with smokeless powder and much flatter trajectories. So in essence i cant agree on the superiority of the rifled muskets over the Dreyse, but otherwise your video is spot on. Obviously the Dreyse was not the only winning factor for the prussians - superior ligistics, communication and tactics additionally to a number of strategic and tacitcal errors on part of the austrians won the war. But again, isn't that just the way wars are won in general?

    @RedstagLawyer@RedstagLawyer12 күн бұрын
    • Breechloading is superior to muzzleloading, and the Dreyse was the oldest, crudest breechloader. Comparing the Dreyse to, say, the 1866 Snider, shows just how crude it actually was. Amazing in 1841… not so much by 1866. It did not take 1866 or 1870 to make everyone wake up and think “wow, the Dreyse is so good, we all need breechloaders now!” That movement was already well underway. We credit the Dreyse for far too much.

      @papercartridges6705@papercartridges670512 күн бұрын
    • @@papercartridges6705 On the contrary it often takes major direct conflicts to convince other militaries of what ideas and type of equipment is the best way forward. And even then often other military establishments are slow to react, another great example of this being the US not adopting the assault rifle concept until ~20 years after its first introduction, and the rest of NATO even later, whilst only the Soviets pretty much picked up on it almost straight away. In short just history repeating itself once again.

      @hummingbird9149@hummingbird914912 күн бұрын
    • "So the rifled musket might win when used in skirmish tactics but certainly not in mass infranty combat." Too simplistic. The adoption of rifles as standard weapon had a huge impact on artillery: Overnight the 6-pounder became worthless and the rifle forced a dramatic developement in the field of artillery.

      @olafkunert3714@olafkunert371412 күн бұрын
  • I think that the reaction of the Austrian officers to the idea of wargames just about says it all. They refused on the grounds you could not gamble on them!

    @jonswanson7766@jonswanson776611 күн бұрын
    • That is a bit unfair. In 1848 they saw the much better performance of the Prussians against the Danes and draw correct conclusions, with their Schocktaktik approach they were in good company. A really nice video would be the development of infantry tactics after the Napoleonic wars. What was the differences before 1848 between Brits, Austrians, Prussians and French? Did the Dreyse rifle change a lot? Or was it used in an existing tactical concept (with better results)?

      @olafkunert3714@olafkunert371411 күн бұрын
  • Awesome video. I love long form analysis like this! Also a question: why did the Dreyse have such a short range? Was it due to a smaller charge in the paper cartridge?

    @arcrid8440@arcrid844011 күн бұрын
    • It was an old design. In 1841 when the model was adopted, 250 meters was considered to be very long range. By the 1860s, it was just getting obsolete. It had a large caliber barrel while newer rifles were getting smaller, with higher velocities. That said, as the theoretical range of rifles kept increasing, most combat continued to happen between 75 and 200 meters. So while the Dreyse was technically shorter range than the Lorenz, it didn’t matter too much in the end.

      @papercartridges6705@papercartridges670511 күн бұрын
  • Excellent.

    @thegrugq@thegrugq12 күн бұрын
  • 33:00 that is simply not correct. Half used Taprifles and half used minie rifles. (for most of the war each of hte two 800 man battalions in a regiment had one battalion with the taprifle and one with the minie. Late in the war exchanges where made to give each regiment the same arms) The Minies where moslty ex french M1822s that where converted to percussion before being sold to Denmark in 1848 for the first war. Then uprifled and shortened a bit 1861. (so collected today often call them "ex french minigevær M1822/48/61") The big issue in regard to the firearms was that all the reservist that had done their mandatory service before 1861 had been trained on both the M1822 as a smoothbore and on the taprifle. But half the army ended up armed with the M1822 as a minierifle... And where ramming the bullet multiply times as one do with a Taprifle do nothing good for accuracy. And that the otherwise ok marksmanship program was not allways followed because of cost)

    @thomasbaagaard@thomasbaagaard12 күн бұрын
    • also, the danes where very well equipped when looking at all their kit. Canteens where issued, unlike the Prussians. Two sets of footwear, one being long boots. Again unlike the Prussians. And both where very popular "loot". Cartridgeboxes where carried on the front of the body, unlike what we see in north America. The rest being comparable to what infantry in other armies carried. I got livinghistory/reenacmtent experience with both Danish and US kit from the 1860ties. (and modern military experience from 2001-2008 and again with homeguard service over the last two years) If I by some magic ended up as a danish soldier in 1864 I would really not want to replace any of the kits with what others where using... with the one exception being the canteen. The American tin canteen is way way lighter empty and hold way more water. So simply better. (but the Danish one is far superior to having none like the Prussians) But other than that I prefer the Danish kit. And none of the items are something I really dislike.

      @thomasbaagaard@thomasbaagaard12 күн бұрын
    • @@thomasbaagaard what does the way cartridge boxes were worn in North America have to do with Danish provisions?

      @sinisterthoughts2896@sinisterthoughts289612 күн бұрын
    • ​@@sinisterthoughts2896More like nothought2896

      @coloradoing9172@coloradoing91725 күн бұрын
  • Another thing just occurred to me on rewatch could the Prussians' Fire Tactics work with muzzleloaders, are are they dependent on the morale effects of that constant barrage of fire?

    @raptor4916@raptor49164 күн бұрын
  • shock tactics were used more directly by the austrians here, previously you were to fire until you could in theory anahikate them in melee then charge to either get shredded, force them from the field or meet and overwelm them, at the austro prussian war the austrians go more direct

    @theprancingprussian@theprancingprussian12 күн бұрын
    • Yes, with tragic results, sadly, for the Austrians.

      @papercartridges6705@papercartridges670512 күн бұрын
  • Muzzle loading rifles had the reliability, range and accuracy advantage. On the other hand, breech loading rifles had improper seal and paper cartridge issues. It turns out that the Prussians offset the breech loading rifles disadvantages with improvised tactics, also Prussian enjoys logistical, intelligence and organisational advantage over the Austrians.

    @ReviveHF@ReviveHF3 күн бұрын
  • “Drauflosgehen” is a very old phrase. “Go for it and don’t stop” describes it exactly.

    @proartcut@proartcut10 күн бұрын
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