How Disney Commodifies Culture - Southeast Asians Roast Raya and the Last Dragon (Part 1)
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Introduction: 0:00:00-0:03:00
Lindsay Ellis Discourse: 0:03:01-0:24:27
Marketing & Expectations: 0:24:27-0:55:23
Story & Themes: 0:55:23-1:18:01
Worldbuilding & Characters: 1:18:01-1:33:47
Cast & Production: 1:33:47-1:41:36
The Problems with Sisu: 1:41:36-1:54:45
See you in part 2!: 1:54:45-1:55:22
Part 2: • How Disney Commodifies...
Folder with all presentation slides: drive.google.com/drive/folder...
Part 1 Credits -
Lindsay Ellis Presentation
Slides by Jes & Cin Wibowo, k0ks3nw4i, Lune
Title slide by Tran
Presented by Jes & Cin Wibowo
Marketing & Expectations Presentation
Slides by Mars/Marissa Irene, Jes & Cin Wibowo, obaewankaenobi, Lune, and Jo
Presented by Mars/Marissa Irene, Lune, and Jes & Cin Wibowo
Story and Themes Presentation
Slides by Serat , Lune, Jes & Cin Wibowo, Stephani Soejono, and IslandBard
Title slide by Tran
Presented by Serat and Jes & Cin Wibowo
Worldbuilding & Characters
Slides by Serat, Jes & Cin Wibowo, Stephani Soejono, and Sylanc
Title slide by Tran
Presented by Jes & Cin Wibowo
Cast and Production Presentation
Slides by Jes & Cin Wibowo, Stephani, alexhawthornes;
Presented by Jes & Cin Wibowo
Sisu Presentation
Slides by AC, Serat, VieN, and Tran
Title slide by Tran
Presented by AC
Overall Credits List + Socials
Audris / Serat (@audriserat)
Jes & Cin Wibowo (@jesncin)
AC
Azrael
Florp
IslandBard (@kidulwarlock)
Jo
Lune (@Lune_Lys)
Mars/Marissa Irene (@Mars_Irene)
SekHanFoo
Serenity (@andatsofthefall)
Stephani Soejono (@stephanisoejono)
Sylanc
Tran Nguyen (@localtiredviet)
Victor (@somelongguy)
VieN (@comicsbyvien)
Violeta (@LeDieuHuong1)
Vu (@BitchassMc)
Xara
alexhawthornes
dangerouscolors
k0ks3nw4i
obaewankaenobi
somelongguy
Witchtimez (@witchtimez)
Artists featured in Sisu section:
@artyevie: / artyevie
@beeteal: / beeteai
@paintedbees: / paintedbees
@BurdHQ: / burdhq
@kxrachii: / kxrachii
@Z0MBIECAAT: / z0mbiecaat
@Oliverlimez: twitter.com/oliverlimez?s=21
**All proceeds from this series will be donated to Southeast Asian charities! Here are some you can support as well:
- New Naratif: Journalism site that aims to make news on SEA issues accessible newnaratif.com/donate/
- Tabung Pelangi: A Malaysian queer initiative to provide binders to the youth tabungpelangi.carrd.co/
- LBH Jakarta: Human Rights Organization in Indonesia defending people against governmental policies bantuanhukum.or.id/
- The T Project: Trans shelter & organization in Singapore www.thetprojectsg.org/
- Oogachaga: One of Singapore's longest running LGBT+ organizations that's been helping and counselling SG's queer community since 1999 oogachaga.com/
- Sayoni: Singapore-based feminist, volunteer-run organization that works to uphold human rights protections for queer women www.sayoni.com/
- Project X: Singapore sex work advocacy group who work with and for migrant sex workers from the region
- ISee: Vietnamese organization that advocates for LGBT and minority culture rights in Vietnam www.isee.org.vn/
ICS: Another Vietnamese LGBTI+ organization ics.org.vn/sponsor-us
- Kaya Natin: Philippine-based non-profit for good governance and ethical leadership, initiatives include leadership development programs for the youth, efforts to educate the public on empowered participation in government, and relief operations in times of crisis www.kayanatin.ph/donate/
www.wesign.it/en/internationa...
This is a petition in support for the victims of Agent Orange in Vietnam. As far as I know there’s no fundraising needed, but they’re in desperate need of more support and visibility! Tran To Nga is the Vietnamese woman who is fighting the French businesses who gave Agent Orange to the USA during the war, since the American court won’t accept the case. It’s our only chance to have this crime punished! Last May French courts declared this a non-case but Tran To Nga announced she’d make an appeal. She’s been fighting in the French court of Evry since 2014!
As an Indonesian person, it NEVER occurred to me that this was meant to be “south East Asian representation” I wrote it off as just a throwaway movie for Disney to make a little extra cash. THAT’S how much the “representation” spoke to me. I didn’t even realise that’s what they were trying to do.
Exactly what I felt too. It just felt like a giant advertisement to sell toys to kids.
Honestly, same. Never even realised it was supposed to represent SEA until I watched this video.
@@caitlyncarvalho7637 I never watched the movie so maybe there are some Southeast Asian stuff in it but when I first saw clips and ads, I thought it was some half assed movie based on Chinese culture. And why conlang? Well, if it's a fantasy world only based out on SEA and not actually set on Earth, then why not?
@@caitlyncarvalho7637 Conlang maybe? I don't know a lot of Slavic names to compare it to anyway but the few I've heard of, it feels kinda out of place. But as I said, I'm not an expert.
@@caitlyncarvalho7637 Hard to explain. Like, you know how there are sounds and words that are associated with a language that you then mish mash to make up a name in said language? Like Jirako Sakurasama is a Japanese name I just made up on the spot. It has the R sound that goes to a K sound which kinda looks like a Japanese name on paper. And that's what I feel about Ilosovic. The -sovic sounds stereotypically Slavic but I don't think I've ever heard of that as a Slavic name. I can look it up but I feel that'll bias me here since I know barely any Slavic names.
Y'all see how Colombians love and embrace Encanto? Raya has never been loved like this by any community in Southeast Asia. Why? Because Disney decided to blend every culture together into a monolith, turning it completely unrecognizable from any Southeast Asian culture as a whole. Filipinos note how they feel more culturally connected to Moana and Encanto than they do with Raya. Vietnamese note how the film is clearly more culturally inspired by non-Sinitic cultures, so while Vietnamese culture is Sinitic, Raya holds no cultural connection to Vietnamese. In Disney's "effort" to include every Southeast Asian cultures, they alienate every single Southeast Asian culture.
As a latin person who is not from Colombia. I found it interesting that Colombians and a lot of other latin countries love and feel connected to Encanto. They choose one country but other latinos from different countries saw similarities or things in common. We Brazilians don't even speak spanish, but seeing Antonio's room look like the Amazon, the music, the plants, the animals, the interracial afro-indigenous family, it's not for us but we can see ourselves on it. Elena of Avalor is also by Disney and blends all latin culture and is really hard to enjoy their takes on the culture. It just feels generic and clearly Avalor is "Mexico but with everyone else's culture on it".
This is the movie that made me skeptical about Encanto.
@@wesleis.oliveira6103 and, like, i watched Encanto with my extended Chinese family and _we_ loved it and felt connected to it too. like only a generation ago, the entire family lived in one big house just like the Madrigals - that alone felt so relatable to us, and then some - even the parts that were different to our culture made us feel closer to the story, oddly enough. maybe it's because it's not spending majority of its story/world-building trying to cater to everyone outside of the culture - in doing so they're able to tell a story that's just so rich and so full that plenty of people outside the borders of that culture can still enjoy and see a little bit of themselves in it. ...man, now i want to rewatch Encanto (again!)
@@wesleis.oliveira6103 Agreed! I watched with my family and although we could recognize it wasn't Brazilian it really hitted home because the culture is close enough. The clothes, the food, the music, the colonial architecture are all different, but a huge family living in the same house, the ethnicities, the forest (I live in semi arid, but still) the personalities are all... Us.
As a half Thai woman I agree, I watched this movie with my Thai mum and the only thing she vaguely recognised was the food and some of the clothing.
This whole situation reminds me of the King of the Hill clip: "So are you Chinese or Japanese?" "I lived in California for the last 20 year, but first come from Laos." "What?" "I'm Laotian." "What ocean?" "It's a landlocked country in South East Asia. It's between Vietnam and Thailand." "So... are you Chinese or Japanese?"
I'll never forget cotton Hill being the only one who knew he's Laotian
I feel you. I'm not SEA (Nepali) but people keep asking me if I'm Chinese and it's kind of annoying, I won't lie. People either think I'm Indian or Chinese. Heck, some random man stopped my mum in the streets to ask if she's FILIPINO. I'm actually done with society now
@@xxgachagirlojalxx6285 It's amazing the amount of linguistic hoops people will jump through when this could all be solved if they just learned to ask "what's your ethnicity?" Like, "are you X?" is never a good look coming from random strangers. Especially the random strangers who think they're more "cultured" and start throwing out guesses for less common ethnicities just to avoid asking if you're Chinese.
I'm gonna ask Caucasian Americans if they're Dutch and see if there's a reaction.
I shouldn't have laughed so hard but maybe i did cause thats way too real!
"Surface-level representation" sums up Disney's commitment to diversity quite well.
Disney is passive progressive.
@@emhullum4120 As opposed to?
@@nanashi2146 aggressively digressive. They'd be out of business so hard if they tried bringing back old views and stereotypes of all cultures outside of white Americans.
@@sundalosketch4769 I've never heard the term "aggressively digressive" before that's interesting.
@@nanashi2146 Idk if it's a real term but it sounded fitting hehe
Remember everyone, Disney made a movie called Coco depicting a Mexican holiday called Dia de Los Muertos and then tried to trademark that same holiday. They literally tried to trademark a whole country's holiday to make money. So before you defend Disney and call everyone else racists remember that Disney exists to just make money. They don't genuinely care about proper culture representation. And just because there was an effort made in bringing diversity, that does not mean it frees it from criticism. If SEAs say Raya is not a good representation of them then it's not a good representation. You can still consider Raya a good movie if you enjoyed it but just take away the label of SEA representation/inspiration. Just because the cast was diverse does not mean you can't call them out on what they did wrong. You can't claim to be representing a group of people and then silence any negative opinions on the movie.
I hate that Disney moved on from European and Arabic inspired fairytales (to take as theirs) to foreign cultures that aren't American. Guess Disney ran out of folklore stories to copyright.
Sadly, Disney has hijacked our European stories and folklores too, making it difficult for us to tell our own stories. Our British stories such as Pooh Bear, Mary Poppins and Alice in Wonderland have been Americanised by Disney to the point, no remembers they originated in the UK.
@@Fusilier7 Pretty sure everyone is aware those stories are British considering all of the characters speak in a British accent in those Disney movies and some of them are explicitly set in London.
@@idek7438 Winnie the Pooh is British, however, Disney owns the copywrite, seizing it from Pooh's own author, A. A. Milne, and Stephen Slesinger, their families are not entitled to royalties from Disney, so Winnie the Pooh is in a legal limbo in the UK, we have the original story, but most people will be more familiar with the Disney version. Disney's Mary Poppins was also changed from its source material, such as leaving out class struggle and labour rights, very British topics during Victorian times. Disney may depict British aesthetics, but they do not always represent Britain, the Americans may speak our language, yet they still fail to understand Britain. BTW: there is no "British" accent, there are English, Scottish, Welsh and Irish accents, so take your pick.
Didn't they also trademark hakuna matata and the norse gods?
This is not a roast. This is cremation!
Oh ye gods! My roast is ruined!
Yeeeus!
Yeah and then you launch the urn into the sun
Wild accented cinema spotted!
@@imveryangryitsnotbutter But what if... I were to take a shallow interpretation of a foreign legend and turn it into a blockbuster disney movie? oh ho ho. Delightfully devilish, Bob.
I’m Viet and I feel like the writers of the movie missed such a HUGE OPPORTUNITY. In Vietnamese folklore, we are DESCENDANTS OF A DRAGON… A WATER DRAGON! Like I’m not super well versed in my own cultures folklore but dang…. They missed a big one.
龙的后裔？呵呵~、越南人也配自称为 “龙” 的后裔？你们配吗？你知道“龙”是多么地尊贵吗？
@@user-bq9gr9pw9e 比率
@@user-bq9gr9pw9e tf
They could have just copy-pasted a Lý dynasty dragon with elephant trunk and tusks and all the scaly glory smh
@@chaook Apparently the original design for Sisu was based on Nagas, (an Indian creature brought to Myanmar and eventually Laos and Cambodia) although they ended up going with the furry elsa dragon in the end. :/
I feel like Lindsay’s original tweet was actually pointing out the lack of proper representation of Asian cultures. We keep seeing stories where Asian cultures are fantasified and mashed together inside a easily palatable western frame. They aren’t necessarily bad, but wouldn’t it be nice if we had more than just that?
Ya the hate she got was completely uncalled for
Lindsay's tweet was about the world being in harmony, but everything changed when the Devastating Event happened. Now they must travel to each devastated faction pursued by the Cause Of The Devastation to reinstate the Harmony Of The World. Her follow-up tweet was literally explaining this. I think it's a huge disservice to Lindsay - who got run off the internet for 2 months because of people refusing to engage with her actual words and fighting over this misinterpretation - to say "I feel like her tweet is [literally the thing she explained she was not saying and has nothing to do with her point]".
The lack of actual southeast Asian animals is genuinely heartbreaking when you realize how many cool ones could have been there
I wonder what could've been had they decided to focus on a specific culture like Encanto did with Colombia. Think of the missed possibilities 😭
Oh yup. That too. Some weird "armadillo"...? HELLO they are from South America.
@@aeliasstatic4376 IKR , but speaking in Disney language , think of the money they could have cash in doing one by one representation of each 11 SEA countries 😀than piling them all in one movie that wasn't very business minded of them !
@@aeliasstatic4376 exactly. ive always thought the raya movie should have focused on a certain country instead of a whole mix of them. im good with one of my sea fams being represented correctly rather than all of us being " represented " and cluttered together
As a biologist from Southeast Asia, my disappointment is immeasurable....
The irony of the Elllis situation is that her attackers making everything about culture and attacking actual SEA people they were embodying the White Savior idea, and actually acting more racist than anything Ellis did.
This! It was just so clear that Ellis was "whipping boy of the week". Ugh, I can't stand these self-congratulating racists.
Racists and colonists tbh
This!! And it's the same shit that took away any enjoyment I had for Encanto, despite being latina myself.
Let's be clear - Ellis had a target on her back because she was a woman who was unapologetic outspoken. The people who came for her didn't care about Raya, racism, POC, or South East Asia. They'd been stalking her, attacking every single thing she did, said, or posted, generally doing whatever that could to silence her. Now her voice has been silenced, another spot had opened up for their fellow racists to step into, and women in the public eye have been warned, once again, to stay in their place. It's enraging, but what can you do?
@@LucasSantos-ss6ou Yep! They were a flock of vultures, pecking away, waiting to swoop in for the kill. It's honestly sickening.
I see that A LOT of SEAsians love Encanto and what I’ve noticed is that Encanto tells a story about generational trauma that’s not just familiar to many Colombians, but it’s also familiar to SEAsians. The elders having heavy expectations on their children/grandchildren, the elders wanting to have full control over their children/grandchildren’s lives and having that one family member that’s ignored or antagonized is very familiar to SEAsians because we live it. We experienced it. And I feel like that was what Raya was missing. Yeah it was nice seeing one or two things that represented my culture, but I couldn’t emotionally attach myself with the story because it’s not something I’ve experienced as a SEAsian.
It's almost as if the more specific the characters and setting, the more the story is able to explore relatable human themes and bring the audience into the story world rather than just throwing a bunch of references together and calling it "representation."
@@specialtramp exactly
I feel seen.. As a southeast asian that loved encanto lol
I've noticed the same thing about Coco. And both Coco and Encanto are similar examples of cultural appropriation done, if not right, then at least much better than in Raya.
@@fluidthought42 By definition, accurately representing a culture is not cultural appropriation.
"Even if it's bad representation, we want it to do good, otherwise people might think our culture isn't marketable and they'll never make a SEA film again" = the saddest thing in this entire vid 😢 This is what Disney and other megacorps do, they make people prioritize things being marketable over everything else.
Yeah
You know what's the worst part that it is really sad that no one questions their authority, there's no challenge to their colonial power. American corporations OWN the international cultural production. So the rest of us CAN'T make ourselves visible unless we are liked by them. We have no power. So we HAVE to be marketable to Disney or have no international recognition at all if they don't think you are pretty you are condemned to be invisible even at you own local cultural market that often rathers to make money of the big foreign corporation instead of investing in local artists. Why aren't we all buzzing about a SEA film, make by SEA artists about themselves and in the native language of some of this SEA nations? Trust me it's not because people hate subtitles. It's the USA cultural domination of the world and they happen to be corporocracy.
This reminds me of people wanting to support/pretend it's good when it comes to stuff like Nekopara Carboy paradise because otherwise they'll just be like see there's no market for this! Even though they just didn't do it nearly as good as the catgirl nekoparas... And with a lot of features lacking, like not even really having romance when that's supposedly the whole point of it. Or, yk, female main characters in situations/franchises/genres etc where there's usually be male characters. If it's bad that means someone didn't write a woman good, doesn't mean something with women can't be good.
In short, a hybrid economy of capitalism and socialism is best, Teddy Roosevelt was right, and Ayn Rand was dead wrong!
When Catwoman and Elektra flopped, the message big studios took away from that was "Female superheroes don't sell." instead of "Maybe we should hire more competent writers and directors to make female superhero movies."
It's funny, a few days ago I actually finished writing and recording a video comparing Raya and Encanto (solely in terms of their themes and messages - I have no cultural authority whatsoever on either) where I really tore into Raya. After recording, I was worried that I was too harsh on Raya. After watching this video, it's clear I wasn't harsh enough. Really incredible eye-opening video; a tremendous effort from everyone involved. Glad this dropped before my vid cause now I have a chance to plug this and direct my audience to it. Looking forward to watching Part 2 (hopefully sometime that isn't 3am on a Friday night rip me)
Probably you need to become harsh more XD
I enjoy your channel so much! It's cool to know you also watch Xiran. Can't wait for your video!
Just release a separate Encanto video and then roast Raya by giving it the worst rating in your next tierlist and just link this video lol
lmao good to see you here roasting this dude
Hey! One of my favorite youtubers!
The other problem with Raya is over inclusivity. Raya try to represent the entire southeast Asia, so when an Thai, Indonesian, Malaysian, filipino, etc watch Raya, you can only sort of point out things that you’re familiar with your culture. I’m Indonesian and when I watch Raya, I can only point out the 1 second batik scene and Raya’s keris inspired sword. I think they should’ve just focused on one country like Encanto(which I love much more than Raya). Encanto only focused on Colombian culture and they really nailed it. They cast actual Colombian voice actors, singers, and staff. They also have Spanish song and phrases in the movie.
Felt exactly the same. I could only point out Arnis, the rest are just "familiar but it's not my culture".
it tried to represent all of sea by lumping us all together it ended up... not representing any of us lol. im indonesian too and encanto is much better than raya imo.
It’s like they always say: when you try to please everyone, you end up pleasing no one
My guess is that they wanted to have an original story rather than basing it off of a classic that might be in the public domain. You’ll notice that nearly all of their films for the past decade have been original IPs - even “Frozen” took a lot of liberties with the material it was loosely based on.
Same I’m Vietnamese and they really missed out. All of SEA cultures are vastly different, idk who’s idea it was to combine everything 😭 Encanto also resonated more with me than Raya.
Raya is the anti-Encanto. Encanto revels in its Colombian-ness, its present in every facet. Raya is just another messy blended fantasy world, with a vaguely SEA aesthetic. And it'd be a slightly different conversation if thats how it was always pitched, but Disney doesn't get to preach to everyone about how they did such a good job representing real world people and culture when thats not what they did. They made a movie for (white) American consumption, they didn't make Raya to represent SEA people.
They prolly learnt from Raya. Imagine Encanto was originally meant to be in a vague central/south american country then they pick a specific country after people’s reaction to Raya.
This is what people chased Lindsay off the internet over holy sht
@@RadenWA That's exactly what I was about to comment. Encanto is a really good movie, but if it randomly included chilean cultural aspects that didn't fit, as a chilean I would have been so weirded out by it.
@@ItsJustValHere heck, I’d be fine of Raya kept the culture borrowing within SEA, but then they put in a snowy Viking settlement, a desert with African animals and some futuristic dress from Star Trek and I’m like 🤦♂️ do we not even have enough culture for you?
@@RadenWA No, Encanto was described from the very beginning as a story about a family of Colombian witches. I remember reading that before even the trailer for Raya came out, back when both films were still in early production.
Dragon geek/hobbyist here; Sisu is in no way, shape or form a dragon, it is a mlp inspired flying ferret. Each country has their own distinct dragons and styles, this is worldwide but esp apparent in EA and SEA. The dragon variety to choose inspiration from was mindboggeling and yet they go for a unicorn ferret... WTF
Huhu MLP inspired is the word 🤣
Honestly the concept art that was more Thai inspired dragons would have been do cool, and I was honestly disappointed they picked this one. I almost threw them a bone saying maybe it's easier to animate and looks better in motion, but it still fell flat compared to other shows and movies. Give the girl dragon tusks cowards.
Also a dragon geek, dragons have continued to evolve throughout culture and media as long as they've been represented, they're rarely strictly mythologically accurate in animation or film (even the winged, fire breathing flying DnD western dragon is a relatively new media creation, historical western dragons are more snake-like). And though not a traditional Naga, adding fluff to dragons in media is something that's been going on in pop culture since "Spirited Away", and fur/feathers in general often show up as an accent feature in historical dragon art. Sisu still reads as a dragon, (by this I mean a serpent-based mythical creature) though it's not the design I would have preferred them to use either. I'm a fan of the earlier concepts that were closer to a traditional Naga.
This dragon is fucking ugly
Its a cute cartoon design lol
"People kept saying "listen to POC", and that's obnoxious to hear when people of color who weren't Southeast Asian decided to speak over us" It's so damn sad how this keeps happening every time with discourses about representation of cultures, it's devastating.
Also it's such an american way to adress a group of other cultures by a term related to COLOR OF THE SKIN, when that is an issue that's primarily a conflict in US culture. Usually when they say "POC" all they think of is someone who's not pale white, which is, in itself , racist too. I say this cause a similar issue arised a few weeks ago in twitter (ugh), where a japanese artist was blamed of "whitewashing" when making a fanart of Encanto with a more pastel pallette and bullied into erasing it, and the entire hispanic community stood up to defend this artist, and the response of these people was so poor they basically stated tha there's no white people in latin america or they don't have a right to speak up for anything cause "privilege", and that just ADDED FUEL TO FIRE. So yeah I hate that the people who make statements like these think they are doing a good thing when in reality they just make it worse.
Few things make me as frustrated as this bullshit. It’s heartbreaking to see how little cooperation people who all are fighting for the same general idea have with each other
@@XantaliX they're just stupid. "POC", bullshit. they only used the term "POC" when they were caught red-handed as justification. I just remember a while ago a person from us get deported from Indonesia because she overextended her vacation visa and even encouraged other people to come here despite the rising number of covid cases. then she played victim by saying the officials kicked her out because she's black and part of the LGBTQ+ community, which is not true. Nobody cares about your race here (there's still exists some ethnocentricism and feudalism here, but nothing about races). just don't mess with the law here. it saddens me that on the internet nowadays, people who have nothing to do with the said culture get more attention than the real people who live in that culture. I've seen north African people get into heated arguments with ignorant westerners that keep saying there are no fair skin people in Africa. or seeing people harassing others because a word from other languages vaguely resembles N-word and many more. such stupid behavior from the supposed "superpower" country.
@@XantaliX That's a thing too with this dark skinned Chinese woman in Genshin Impact named Xinyan. People kept calling her black on Twitter and whoever drew her with pastels or in a lighter skin tone were just "whitewashing" racists. Completely ignoring the fact dark skinned asians (naturally or not) EXIST and that lighting and art style exists.. I've also recently learned they're trying to "westernize" latinos by forcing the term "latinx" because "Your language should be more inclusive to more than only men and women." When in reality Spanish is already pretty inclusive enough, it just has masc and fem tones to it which is too deeply imbedded within the language to have it all get written out in favor of having inclusion that's already there. This has been happening with nearly all cultures and languages that differ from Americans in general and it almost makes me embarrassed to be American/live here.
To put the way Raya sees Asia into perspective: It is like a movie about Frida Kahlo casting Celine Dion as the main character and marketing itself as representing authentic Brasilian culture, because it was filmed in New Jersey.
Two hours of Xiran Jay Zhao hosting a roast of a Disney film, bringing their channel full circle? Our family will eat like kings for weeks, oh my god.
Don't you mean, 4 hours?
Four!! Four hours!!! We are being fed!!! I've been waiting for someone well-versed or researched in Raya to complain about it eloquently for. Months.
imagine if she released a p3 😭
& friends*
@@Mizu-AM according to their Twitter they may release a part three diving into the queer aspects of Raya and how they relate to SE Asian queer culture 👀👀👀
They could've cast the woman who sung for Jasmine and Mulan, Lea Salonga. She's Filipina and has acted in many things before and has a great singing voice.
One mistake does not a failure make; The discourse is still far superior to Raya and the Last Dragon.
@@caitlyncarvalho7637 Well, Borat is a parody anyway; I wouldn't expect anyone to take it seriously. But you're right: Look to Mongolia for a better example of what Kazakh people are like.
@@caitlyncarvalho7637 I have not seen that and honestly, I probably won't for some time.
@@caitlyncarvalho7637 Makes sense. And for what it's worth, I'm an American who knows for sure Kazakhstan is Central Asian.
@Caitlyn Carvalho did y'all never learn soviet history? most of Central Asia was part of the Russian Empire before the revolution and WW1, and was integrated into soviet socialist republics. Tajikistan, Turkmenistan, Uzbekistan, Kazakhstan, Kyrgyzstan, even Mongolia was a soviet Republic. both Mongolia and Kazakhstan are almost "cousins", with their culture of Eagles, Nomadic life, diet and cuisine, hunting and their tribes, both share cultural similarities. obviously there are differences but Kazakhstan isn't Eastern European by a long shot.
I really didn't think the "Asia as a Monolith" problem was as widespread as it is still. I had a woman at a bar get actually angry with me because I specified having traveled to East Asia. She said that East Asia is "just Asia" and then argued that India should also be part of East Asia if I was going to differentiate them. Fucking wild
They don't even know Turkish people also actually asian XD Thanks to racism and hate toward Turkish people nobody give a fuck about Turkish people anyway.
As an Indian I can't even at this take 💀😭😭
What?
Indian that are racist towards east asians: 😮
Hot damn. Genuinely, I think this is how all media analysis of this type should work. I also feel like it takes pressure off the individual participants, who in this communal format don't feel like they need to have a 100% comprehensive and flawless or "objective" opinion on the work overall, covering every single conceivable base and preempting every counterargument - and can instead focus down on the details they choose and their specific perspective/precise areas of expertise. Also the attempted trust message didn't work for me at all, and this really helped me figure out why it fell flat. Incredible work pulling this together! -R
WAIT ...USTEDES NO SON LOS DE LOS MITOS OMG Q HACEN ACA
HI RED OMG
Hi Red! As a Vietnamese myself, this video is a real breath of fresh air.
This kind of review definitely allows for people to speak out on the specific aspects that bother them or which they feel confident in discussing, and it's absolutely fascinating. As a viewer I feel much more immersed hearing one person discuss one specific aspect of the film, because it feels richer and more accurate, rather than having one person discuss every questionable aspect of the film half-deep. I am not Southeast Asian, so I can't necessarily comment on the content itself, but this type of formatting makes it much easier to focus on each aspect the speakers are criticizing and actually internalize what is being said. I'm a sucker for film criticisms and reviews and this is the most I feel I've learned from any of the videos I've seen before, simply because the formatting and in-depth discussions are so neatly presented.
Well hi Red, great seeing you here!
Heavily-Americanized Filipino here. When I look at Sisu, I don't see a majestic divine dragon. I see a My Little Pony.
Hell, I'm super white and even I had issues with Sisu. I hated that they made the female dragon look...stereotypically female instead of like actual SEA dragon art.
@@theflickchick9850 r/PointlesslyGendered, I guess?
Apparently the original design for Sisu was based on Nagas, (an Indian creature brought to Myanmar and eventually Laos and Cambodia) although they ended up going with the furry Elsa dragon in the end. They basically placed marketability over authenticity and respect
Thai here. Agree
@@theflickchick9850 just like Disney same-facing female humans too. Elsa, Anna, Rapunzel, and beyond. same giant eyes and button nose while males are super varied in Disney's media. Dragons are such interesting subjects, especially visually, Sisu could have looked so much better.
"If her identity is so interchangeable with other SEA ones, then she was never meant to represent anyone." That honestly caught me off guard. This whole video was great insight for me, but that line in particular was just excellent and a bit of a mic-drop.
Hi. I have something I want to share about it as well. Most likely no one would read it but thanks if you do Before anyone is going to say anything about it, i am south East Asian (Im Thai ) and I actually have a pretty different opinion on the video. Now it’s ok to disagree I just want to share my opinion as well. - I actually like the idea of trust because it’s uncommon in south east Asia.The fact that it’s a real problem that happens in the region today is a good way to make a compelling story as well as sharing your message. I would say I like to see that more often of the movie based on that culture to represent the problem of that culture as their main theme to get the message to the people of the culture and let them reflect on it. But i don’t think the way trust and unity is portrayed here is a good way to do it. I agree with the video that we unity as a monolith isn’t really a good way since we and kumantra itself doesn’t share anything in common between different regions. Though I still see trust and unity being possible in south east Asia. Not as one thing but as multiple. It’s not about becoming the same.it’s about accepting differences. About showing that it’s ok to have different culture, different lifestyle and different philosophy but we can try to understand each other’s perspective. We don’t have to be the same to be together. Being different but accepting each other is the way to go. Modern south east Asia do have an attempt at unity as well as seen in asean , a union of south East Asian countries. I do agree that they should not use the ellite class as a representation of trust. Using the ellite makes the story a bit cheaper and trying to make her a “princess” isn’t good enough for me. It would be much more compelling to see someone who’s not the ellite, someone who’s the underdog to give up themselves and trust the other. I don’t really agree with the part where they say raya lack of family and community trust is a bad representation. She has always been portrayed as an untrusting outcast of her tribe and no one in her tribe or the other tribe does it that way and it’s why she should learn to trust each other . I think the ending of the movie is a bit too easy. With people immediately regaining trust even though they are the exact same untrusting person a long time ago is a bit odd. I would say it shouldn’t be seen as an immediate thing and I would say having then either slowly assemble together after the crisis is solve is better. They don’t need to all immediately recover they just have to show the hope and the start of a new age. Not the end process. Ik it’s a Disney movie and it has keep it simple but I could see this being made with only a few tweaks. I think the idea of self discovery and trying to yourself out of the family expectations but still support the family is a good idea for a plot since it’s also a thing in south East Asia and it’s a massive problem I do struggle with. But i don’t think the way Disney do it is flawed or bad in anyway . It’s just kind of a creative liberty. I agree the dragon and drune are really cheap and are only there to be a force for the character. I think it would be better with human as both the good and bad guys or treating the dragons and drunes as human like character or make the dragon behave like actual south East Asian spirits. For sis design, it sucks. I’m not sure why they make her pink and purple and give her almost amphibious skin down the back since in south east Asia these dragons usually have scales . The calmer tone down appearance is probably a marketable choice but i don’t have as much problem with it however I think a more animalistic dragon who are still capable of being kind an emotional would work better. The lack of jewelry and pattern bothers me a bit as afaik thai nagas have a lot of jewelry and a very distinctive pattern on the horn which Disney try to do with the horn colo but it’s a bit too mild to be recognizable. The pattern should be carvings and the horn should have a rougher surface with flowing patterns and traditional shape with tone down edges more like a crest instead of just being a smooth rhino horn with marbeling blue color. The pattern they put on the horn are also the wrong type of pattern as well being generic Traditional pattern. She looks less like a dragon and more like Awkwafinas fursona than anything else.and since these dragons aren’t always aggressive and intimidating but are also capable of kindness and joyfulness when they want to I feel like a more traditional looking Naha won’t hurt her characters personality.her original design seems to have slight kirin reference which is odd but is removed from the new design anyway. I personally like the idea of mix matching south East Asian culture but then Disney put an additional layer of whitewashing over it which makes it a bit weird. As well as mixing some of the geography which makes some moment real awkward like the non snow proof house of spine or the fact that there are shrimp paste from tail despite tail being a mostly desert biome and even in the earlier version with s still a grassland when irl Indonesia as an island make these from small shrimp and krill . I also don’t get why they stuff in snow and desert into it which do exist in south east Asia but aren’t the main point. I would like to see more grassland and rainforest representation as well. Though I do like how they use the dragon shaped river like the ma Khong river of mainland southeast asia. Where Nagas are believed to live. The geography of tail though being critiqued a lot by the video is actually representative of how the capital of many south East Asian capitals. All kingdoms of Thailand have their capital built on artificial islands dug by massive canals and ankor wat is surrounded by a lot of water. The water act as good waterway communication and trade route for mainland countries and to protect them from foreign attacks in term of war. Though the isolation of tail is likely from the Drune as without them it would likely look more like talons . I feel like talons without trade have to turn inward to get resources . They can grow plants on floating rafts like how people did in tonle sap Cambodia. I would like to see that being represent as well. It might be contraversial to say this,but though the movie itself as an underrepresentation of south East Asian culture, this video itself has an underrepresentation of mainland south East Asian culture where most of the films took inspiration from so the video say something from the mainland come out of nowhere when they actually do have south East Asian roots. I would like to see more people from Myanmar,Thailand,Laos,Vietnam,and Cambodia working on this since from the video the team seems overwhelmingly Indonesian and Filipino . Though I think this movie needs more maritime south East Asian influences as well. Now I have to say I can’t speak for all south East Asian or south East Asian countries. As I said it’s ok to have different opinions but it’s ok to share them as well. (Pls don’t cancel me ) This is my opinion. Feel free to agree or disagree.
@@thefolder3086 woah this is well written and interesting. You should upload this as a comment instead of a reply to a comment, that way it’ll get more attention
@@goldenbunnies4143 I did It gets two likes ;-; Thx for reading tho
@@thefolder3086 ofc! You clearly took a lot of time to write it all out, and your thoughts are very well put together. It’s so detailed, and a really good read after watching the video. I’m not sea so I don’t have an opinion on this, but thank you for sharing yours!
@@goldenbunnies4143 thx! Idk how to get people to notice this but I’m glad at least someone did. I’m actually a part of a mostly south East Asian game developer team who makes a south East Asian inspired sci fi game so I’m pretty much familiar with blending culture but we try yo make sure it still keeps some authenticity but ofc we won’t brand it as super authentic. I also wanna hear your opinion as well even if you aren’t a native just to see how people think about the movie.
There are so many SEA actors and actresses they could have hired like Michelle Yeoh who is Malaysian or Brenda Song who is half Thai or the creator of Amphibi,a Matt Braly who is Thai and incorporated Thai culture into his show.
Amphibia has better SEA representation and portrayal.
@@mariaconner8650 it did. And even his mother was brought on to voice Anne’s mom.
@@KaeMcSpadden You know what else has better SEA representation? Khan Kluay.
Seriously!! Amphibia was so good!
@@mariaconner8650Molly McGee too
I remember arguing with several Asian Americans on Twitter trying to calmly explain how I, a SEA woman, did not appreciate how our feelings were being put as a monolith and that their "defense" of this movie was in no way helpful to us as SEA or Asians in general. Plus what good was their harassment of a white woman who never commented on the culture when there's so many ways they could weaponize their voice against genuine racist discourse. I remember being bemused at one response where she basically said "what you say doesn't matter, I'm Asian American and I'm offended so bye".
Asian american is usually so disconnected from their Asian root but always view themself as a true, one and only POC voice that matter. Just because they're from 1st world country and more fluent in english
Those with the least skin in the game are usually the ones who take the most offense, in my experience. It's like they know the conversation doesn't really involve them, so they have to shout louder and be angrier to make up for it.
they really put the AMERICAN in Asian american, new day new entitled assh*le in Twitter
Asian American voices still matter because they’re still asian I don’t like seeing how non immigrants constantly look down on american asians but i do agree the harassment was a little uncalled for because all Lindsey really did was say raya in a way was like Atla :’)
@@reigenxal As a SEA, I’ll be completely honest; the answer to that is resentment lol. We’re *way* too aware that Asian-Americans will always have more of a voice than us when presenting our cultures to the global market purely by virtue of the “American” in their identity and where they live. Personally though, my concerns about this come from wariness and worry, not condescension. I can’t help but be nervous for these diaspora because it’s pretty obvious that they’re so disconnected from their roots, they are most likely the ones who will misrepresent or speak over us in a bid to cling to whatever representation they can get from the American side of who they are. When they could just, I dunno, ask us? We’re not that hard to find online-
I watched Encanto, and you can see and feel the love for Colombia. The movie, despite focusing on one country is still good representation, not just for Colombians, but also Latinos as a whole. Because the success of one gives the opportunity for other Latino creators and ideas to shine in the future. Why couldn't they have done the same thing with Raya? Choose one out of the eleven South East Asian countries instead of trying to mash them all together, cause these countries, while they do share similarities, are not the same. It's honestly so sad to see Disney put so much care in movies like Encanto but then that same level of attention isn't put into South East Asian inspired ideas. And despite being South East Asian myself, I found myself relating more to Encanto than Raya, because Encanto has an identity, and Raya was having an identity crisis with trying to be everything at once and it just didn't feel familiar anymore.
exactly, i’m SEA not colombian but it’s clear encanto was like a love letter to colombia
Colombia* not Columbia, Columbia is the historical Name used To describe the female personnification of the United States. While it May Sound similar to Colombia, the two words dont even Share the Same ethymology and have nothing To do with each other.
@@LMedici Apologies, it was a genuine spelling mistake (・_・;)
What matters more is story and character though, Moana was also an amalgamation of Pacific Island cultures (like Raya is for SEA), and I think it did well with what they did as a Pacific Islander myself.
@@LMedici i’m so sorry and thank you
As a Costa Rican, believe me, I feel you. The enormous cultural and ethnic diversity of Latin American countries is also treated as a monolith by non-Latin Americans. We aren't all Mexico. Funny fact: since Costa Ricans aren't represented anywhere anyway, I identify with Belle, although she's French, because we're both bookish girls with wacky fathers.
Are you Dealing with a gaston ?
yeah, and i've had many people blue screen as I say I'm latina and brazilian lol
yeah, we're all small colonial towns in which live people who doesn't know how a to speak a bit of english... its funny 'cos google earth exist and you can google EVERY city in the world and if they do this, they'll discover 1. we have buildings, 2. every city and culture is quite different from each other, 4. we know better english than they know spanish...
Example: salsa music _always_ being associated with Mexico when it's WAY more popular in other SA countries 💀
@@error-try-again-later example: tango = salsa
It’s like they learned nothing from Aladdin, if you blend a whole region together none of them are going to feel connected to it. Encanto impacted so many different ethnicities because it was relatable beyond the “look at me I’m giving you representation!!”. It was set in Colombia, and it honestly was a tribute to its culture. Whereas Raya just fell flat because it was unrecognizable beyond ‘some Southeast Asian culture’.
tbf I don't think Aladdin was supposed to give representation, all the Arabian stuff was practically stylistic, with Raya though they would not shut up about how they're trying to represent
I think atla and genshin and alladin were more about being "inspired" loosely. Trying to inspire their fantasy world meanwhile raya tried to go with "rep" and failed at meeting that expectation.
Thing is, no one was supposed to feel ethnically or culturally connected to Aladdin, it was just a fantasy movie, but I understand there was a specific statement on this movie that claimed specific cultural connections?
Exactly. till this day i see tiktoks of south asians and arabs fighting over whether Aladdin is southasian or not. like... it's none and both at the same time.
Clearly India was much more successful at appropriating Aladdin with Padmaavat 😁
Before defending Disney please remember that Disney tried to trademark “Dia de Los Muertos” - a whole as holiday. They also tried to trademark “hakuna matata” a fcking language. ALL FOR MONEY. So please note that they don’t care.
So, Encanto is bad?
Also attempted to sue Mattel for Ever After High when EAH came first and Descendants is a rip off.
@@progunjack5556 Disney is. Encanto was the bomb.
Me, a "you photograph pale so you must be white" person who lives in a barrio filled with Latin individuals from *everywhere* : Uhh, if someone tried to commodify dia de los muertos and gatekeep or tell individuals they had to pay royalties/ect to have their services, make/buy pan muerte or dress accordingly - this otherwise quiet neighborhood would most likely riot. I'm not exaggerating. *Even I* have an ofrenda - That is one of the most dangerous and stupid things I've ever heard them try to pull (and I'm rather well educated in problematic Disney history). I can't think of an "American" or similar cultural equivalent to the amount of disrespect and outrage it would cause for them to do to another holiday.
@@RC.- I remember that being addressed in the live action Mulan response video. If it wasn't here, I think it was dreamsounds or someone else prominent talking about (on the outset) the issue of Mulan being an automatic outright GirlBoss prodigy from the beginning.
the funny thing is that disney plus wasn't even available in a lot of southeast asian countries when this movie came out. i live in the philippines, and cinemas were closed, so i had to pirate it 😒 disney plus still isn't out here yet. i personally enjoyed raya, but i think it's hypocritical for disney to say they're being "inclusive" when they didn't even release the film in the countries they were trying to represent.
True! I don't even know anyone who has disney plus and we were in the middle of the pandemic so ordinary people can't go to a cinema or rent (unlike rich people who can rent a special cinema or pay for Disney plus) If it was readily available the Pinoys can carry this movie however COVID said NOPE 😂
It’s kind of a “privilege” that other countries can go to movie theaters and have Disney+ in their countries yet we Filipinos don’t even have it yet at all. Of course, yelling privilege isn’t the right word for this discourse but it just seems unfair that everyone can freely post NWH spoilers in memes or theories yet we still have to wait for a long time for it to come to streaming services, and even then, those services are region-locked probably and we have to resort to pirating, I only watched Encanto because it was available for pirating!
@@naethavenir9422 did you try using a VPN? I once tried to access a website that wasn't available in the country I'm in, so I used a VPN and it worked
See, that costs money. It doesn't cost anything extra to animate people from a certain region, but actually releasing the film there is hard work!
ya true
Even without looking at the redesigns of Sisu, (in her dragon form) she looks like a vague dragon/mythological creature from a Barbie film.
Even barbie had better dragon designs (rapunzel)
Barbie... She's from my little pony...😂
IT'S BIBBLE!!!!
she looks like a rainbow Falkor
gigantamax bibble
I'm not sure why they DIDN'T adapt a SEA story... most of their big movies have historically been (loosely) based off of stories and fairy-tales from different countries/cultures. It would be interesting to know what the initial plans, motivation and inspiration for the movie was and why.
Omg yes... Id like to hear SEA myths and legends being adapted (correctly) by big corporations...
Because the animation industry is full of people that are inspired by anime and avatar and its a negative feedback loop at this point. A lot of them are Asian diaspora actually so get used to this type of show/movie
And Disney Channel Asia actually had a series of animated shorts highlighting stories from South East Asian countries. I think it was called Tales from The Ring of Fire. They could have looked at that.
@@yuki97kira do you think only conglomerates can make animation now
Read Raya and the Last Dragon the art book. It goes into detail about what the team was thinking.
I was trying to figure out why the "dragon nerd" dialogue irritated me so much, and this just explains it perfectly. It really does feel like it's trivializing a very spiritual thing. I'm Indian, not SEA, but our cultures also have highly spiritual elements and I would feel icky if someone called themselves a "Ganesh nerd". It was just so out of place and strange, especially in the context of the SEA setting.
Christians have been very weirded out by dragon worship since forever since their dragons ar, for the most part, associated with satan or evil in general
Oh my God, Ganesh nerd sounds so blasphemous, I'm Pakistani and I can't imagine ever describing myself as an Allah nerd wtfffffff this is so BADDDD 💀💀💀💀💀
@@nihilism1652 god otaku
@@RoyalKnightVIII otaku 💀💀💀💀💀💀💀💀💀💀
@@RoyalKnightVIII westerners just like to apply their beliefs onto others eh. It's the "I'm the centre of the world" attitude for me
the Lindsay Ellis Raya/Avatar discourse was genuinely one of the dumbest, most insane things to ever come out of Twitter, and that's saying SO MUCH.
Twitter is a hellhole and everyone should stay away.
@@MammaApa Exactly, I quit Twitter and came back to Tumblr last year, best decision of my life tho..
It honestly made me have gamergate flashbacks. It is one of the reasons I think the online left does more harm than it can ever help.
I’m really glad to have heard another breakdown of it, this time with more of the context. I didn’t think Ellis deserved the harassment she got
@@extrules Online anything is bound to do more harm because of all the problems being on the internet causes.
Okay, when I first saw Sisu's design my only reaction was 1) that dragon literally has Elsa's FACE which is creepy as fuck 2) it reminded me of the meme with the distorted wolf faces about how some animations distort features because "how else will they know it's a girl or a boy" and I'm glad to know that people agree with me
As a Filipino, I feel culturally more connected to Moana (and Encanto) than to "Raya and the Last Dragon". This is just my (Hispanized) Austronesian identity speaking.
To Be Honest, The Director Was A Mexican-American And I Am Mexican American.
As a Vietnamese person, that one clip from a Craig of the Creek where a Vietnamese kid made bánh xèo made me feel more represented than the entirety of Raya and the Last Dragon
Avatar the last airbender raya and the last dragon the titles are almost the same
Exactly my thoughts. Concept from Encanto and Setting of Moana.
“Netflix’s *Klaus* did this better” holy sh!t, if that doesn’t smack sense into you I don’t know what will 😆 I really liked that movie, and was honestly not expecting the level of good storytelling and Saami representation it provided. Probably b/c they didn’t advertise it: all I knew was that it was a new take on the legend of Santa Claus, and the animation was really good. I don’t remember ATLA ever claiming representation either, it was clearly an American show that drew inspiration from East Asian culture in looks and martial arts. If Disney hadn’t claimed so much “representation” in Raya we wouldn’t have needed this video. 😔
Yep, exactly. The biggest problem with claiming this movie as a faithful rep of SEA is that it can, and does, influence how those who don't know abt SEA view the region. For example, I've seen lots and lots of comments circulating translations of words in the movie (including words like binturi, which, as the vid shows, is completely made up) as if they are accurately representing (the very diverse!) SEA languages. Worse, more often than not there is no clarification on the possible word origin or something, just plain "dep la means 'strangely beautiful'" without mentioning that it's Vietnamese. The very fact that the whole Kumandra seems to share the same language itself is not helping. If anything, it perpetuates the "Asians are monolith" stereotype even more :(
I had no idea it was based on Sami culture. And I live in Finland! I know it's out of season, but thanks to this comment, I'm going to watch that movie for the first time. You're right, the marketing really didn't make it stand out.
@@Rebochan I'm American so I can't tell which country or culture the majority of the film is based on, but there is a group that joins in partway through they explicitly name as Sami, and I heard positive reviews of the portrayal. Would love to hear your thoughts after you see the movie 😊
I love Klaus! (=
1. How did Klaus do this better if “this” isn’t even what it was doing? 2. Disney hadn’t claimed so much representation in Raya, therefore, we don’t need this video. 3. Regardless of if they had claimed that, they delivered representation, so…
"There are more Filipinos in Steven Universe than there are in Raya and the Last Dragon" The way I CHOKED-
I honestly find that the line "Listen to POC voices" is used far more as a bludgeon to push certain views, rather than actually listening to what the people of said group really think on the matter in question. I remember once that someone quite aggressively used "As an Asian POC" to shut down criticisms I had about the cultural appropriate of Romani (Gypsy) culture, *MY* culture, with what I can only assume was an implication that I couldn't say what was and was not appropriation. What their grounds were for that opinion, I have no idea, but I'd hazzard a guess it was probably "I'm right. You're wrong." That's probably the logic behind it's use in this whole debacle as well.
i definitely get this!
Yeah no sht. It’s never used in good faith. Anyone who talk in this mechanistic new speechy way is just regurgitating talking points.
Romani here and thank you!
@@Chordata7 Ayyy Opre Roma 🖤
If I had to guess they somehow missed the memo you are speaking for your culture. It’s a good overall mentality but there will be weird folks anywhere.
"Raya didn't represent Southeast Asians." "Oh, it didn't?" "Well...." *whips out receipts and Powerpoint presentation* Seriously, thank you for putting this together! I learned a lot!
"Are we really defending this American corporate product just to get back at some KZheadr?" Yes... yes they are. Never underestimate just how low and how petty these virtue signalers are.
They will do anything to help….unless it requires actual effort past a like or a hashtag.
Some people just find it cathartic to insult people online I guess
People are doing this with Encanto right now, crying about whitewashing and bullying artists such to the point that _actual LatAms (Latin Americans)_ and especially those from Colombia have created an entire hashtag (#ShutUpGringo2022) to tell them that they're wrong, what they're claiming is whitewashing is not, and to shut up and stop "defending/fighting for" them. The Americans, as predicted, have tried to fight back with the claim that gringo is a slur (the most hilarious one being a slur against black people specifically) and have turned to attacking the people they claim to defend. LatAm has been dealing with this this hilariously by taking the piss out of them; even created a whole professionally sung and mixed cover of We Don't Talk About Bruno (We Don't Talk About Gringos/No se habla de Gringos) to mock them. American keyboard warriors are something else, man.
@@KoiladaScrewYTHandles ikr! A lot of the things they do are legit harassment, but because they are on the right side of their black and white political isle, they get a free pass. Honestly, American political system is the dumbest system I have ever seen.
@@RKNancy Thank you! Somebody finally agrees with me!
As southeast Asian, there's a lot of myth and folklore Disney could make a movie from... Even Southeast Princesses are badass in the past! In Malaysia alone, there's so many princesses and strong ladies that worth of inspiration... You want a beautiful yet badass princess that beat up men left and right? Puteri Walinong Sari... You want an independent and intelligent Queen? Cik Siti Wan Kembang... You want a princess that could do magic? That could change her appearance to a witch just like snow white step mother but not evil? Puteri Gunung Ledang... Or you want a siblings conflicts between two celestial princesses? We have puteri Santubong and Puteri Sejinjang... Heck, I wouldn't be mad if people make the movie just to make the sisters have their happy ending... This is just in Malaysia... But no, they just want to take the Southeast asian aesthetic and mashed it together into a mess that I as a southeast Asian can't relate... And it was supposed to be southeast Asian inspired movie! AND DRAGONS? Really? How much cliche can it get? We have tigers, we have myth birds, we have giant crocodiles, etc... and the only thing that they could come out with is a dragon? AND ITS NOT EVEN MAJESTIC LOOKING!
Filipino here and I honestly wouldn't have minded a Malaysian-focused Disney movie in place of the failed cultural representation Raya is and those stories you mentioned seem really cool too! SEA has a lot of cultures and stories and I'm seriously disappointed that Disney came up with this I mean, past Disney movies were inspired after actual stories, why couldn't they have done the same thing with Raya, right?
Non SEA here but i want a story about the mythical crocodiles so bad. Im sorry with the shit show you guys got, you deserve a lot better
@@saiko2062 right? And I'm sure Philippines also had their own badass women in the past whether in history or folklores... My biggest problem to relate with Raya is that they didn't really insert Southeast Asian struggles and problems into the movies... How can us SEA people say "hey! I could relate with that! I'm facing the same problems too!" if nothing be relate to except for sprinkle of SEA aesthetic here and there? And I also agree with you that Disney should take a whole lots of steps back and maybe focusing on just one culture from one country at a time...
@@dustyrose192 yeah, it's kinda suck to see that people are still thinking that East Asia and Southeast Asia shares same exact cultures... Disney is all about magic and fantasy... It's kinda disappointing to watch Raya because SEA's folklore is everything about magic and fantasy... And about the mythical giant crocodiles, it is very popular lores in Malaysia, especially in Sarawak... There is a few version of it but the most told version is that there is a warrior from Dayak descendants. He is so strong and invincible that he is feared by his enemies. One of his enemies kidnapped the warrior's wife and found out that the warrior's weakness is he lost his invincibility if he got into the water. His wife got murdered, thrown into the river and he went berserk, but unfortunately killed by his enemy. His body along with his wife sunk into the river. Their body was cursed by a "god" to be a giant crocodile that inhibited a river named Batang Lupar since then. Many believed that the same crocodile had resurfaced in 1940's and had killed 14 people. The crocodile died when people shot him in 1980's with 40 shots of long nails, not bullets, because bullets didn't do anything to it. But many believe that the crocodile is not Bujang Senang, instead just a normal saltwater crocodile. The real Bujang Senang is still living till this day. Just googled "bujang senang" and you'll see how big the crocodile is.
Time for us Southeast Asians to make more of our own movies and films! I'm no filmmaker myself but will happily support any efforts. I heard about a video game being created featuring Southeast Asian creatures so let's have our own movies too! (because I understand a lot of Asian characters in games feature East Asian characters). No need for other people to create it for us then get all frustrated when it isn't done right.
As someone who has seen Raya and hasn't seen any of the promo material beforehand (literally watched it cuz I was scrolling thru disney+ and saw a dragon in the thumbnail), I didn't even know it was supposed to be South-East Asian representation. I am not from Asian descent and since they took a bunch of different cultures and mashed them together I just thought it was like ATLA and they made another Asian inspired fantasy. To be fair, I also didn't give it much thought since the overall message of the movie kinda sucks like I wanted Sisu to shut the hell up so many timessss. Raya did nothing wrong not trusting these sketchy people like WHY IS EVERYONE SO MAD AT HER. LAST TIME SHE TRUSTED SOMEONE IT DESTROYED THE WORLD. Like why are none of these people trying to actually EARN her trust instead of just expecting it smh the entitlement.
Ayyy same- Idk this supposed to represent SEA till now-
i'm from asia and i didnt know until after i saw the promo after watching the movie lol
atla is East Asian + Inuit inspired cultures
@@lexezlao I think somebody's forgetting the Sun worshipers's who's culture is based on the Aztecs.
@@drafezard7315 I forgot about that too
not gonna lie, i started tearing up when the speaker mentioned Philippines' bayanihan. it made me realise that no popular media can represent Filipino or SEA culture in the genuine way that members of SEA do. no matter how hard they try, they cannot touch SEAs hearts without SEAs spearheading the project
Also, neither Raya nor ATLA/LOK are isekai stories! Isekai specifically is where someone is pulled/transported/reincarnated to a vastly different world, reality or universe, often those realities are magical compared to the non-magical existence they left behind. So an example is Spirited Away with Chihiro literally "spirited away" to the spirit world. It just shows how shallow people on the LE cancel train really were. They wanted to virtue signal and destroy the image of a popular YTer out of a trumped up sense of righteousness.
What the heck is "isekai"? Just say "fantasy stories inspired by real cultures in history" 😂 That's what Lord of the Rings is. LOTR is directly inspired by Finnish mythology and ancient Scandinavian culture.
@@Kingdom_Of_Dreams isekai just literally means another world, as in, you get sent into another world. some examples are alice in wonderland and the wizard of oz
@@Kingdom_Of_Dreams Isekai isn't just "fantasy", it's a kinda specific genre where a person from a normal world is transported to another fantastical one, think Chronicles of Narnia
@@Kingdom_Of_Dreams usually in isekai stories the mc brings something from their world that amazes the fantasy world so much that the mc becomes the ruler or soemthing similar
@@Kingdom_Of_Dreams Isekai is a subgenre of fantasy anime and manga, once called "Portal Fantasy", where a human from our modern world is sent off into a high fantasy otherworld and has to adapt. Bringing along modern knowledge or a token piece of modern technology like a cell phone is common in the genre, but not required. Spirited Away, Chronicles of Narnia, A Kid in King Arthur's Court all can fit into the genre.
This is sort of related but as a Mexican, Coco made me happy because Mexicans were ACTUALLY being represented. I know that out of every Latin American country, Mexico is the most well known and mostly “represented” but it’s always base level. *The nachos, cinco de mayo, tamales, and just dropping a random “hola” or Spanish phrase is *not* good Mexican representation. What Coco got right it that even though many people on the the team where not Mexican time was taken to study the culture. They understood the meaning behind the holiday “Día de los Muertos”. I know when people see different Latin American countries being represented they usually say “finally a Latin American country that isn’t Mexico” but I feel it should be acknowledged that when we are represented, it’s usually not very good. I’m glad my country is used in media but when it’s base level or just reinforces negative stereotypes I don’t count that as being “represented”. *(If y’all wanna know: many traditional Mexican household do not eat nachos and when we do, it does not look like the Americanized version of it. Tamales are traditionally a celebratory food, so it doesn’t makes sense for the Mexican characters to eat them basically everyday. Cinco de mayo is not really a big deal in Mexico, the day is mostly only celebrated in the state it took place in, Puebla. Most Latin American countries speak Spanish, so having someone speak Spanish doesn’t automatically make them specifically Mexican. If you want Mexicans to be aware someone is Mexican just by talking, use specific Mexican slang, like “wey”, or words that have Nahuatl origin or that ARE Nahuatl since it was the original language spoken in most of the Mexican area before Spain came.)
This is actually so interesting, the information you've given that is. The fact that most representations are shallow or downright villainous (in most actions movies smhhh) is so crappy, honestly. Proper representation is so important because for example, I live in Pakistan and because of the nature of mainstream American media I didn't really understand any Latin American culture let alone Mexican until watching Coco, which I absolutely loved. Finding out how Disney treated the woman who inspired coco and their trying to trademark such an important day made me not want to watch the movie afterwards, but I'm so glad that it's an actually GOOD representation of Mexican culture and experience! I've watched Mr. Iglesias since and I personally really liked it, however I don't know how accurate that is. I also started one day at a time so now I know a little about Cubans as well, and I'm so glad that I do! Please let me know if you have any recs with good Latin American representation! They don't have to be American, as long as I can find subs I'm good!
Because Pixar made it and they actually put effort in their movies, unlike Disney Animation Studios.
Fun fact: evidently, the original script for Coco revolved around a boy who lost his mother and learned to come to terms and let go on Día de los Muertos. They then DIDN'T go with this script after realizing it missed the point of the holiday, and rewrote it into what it is now.
@@nihilism1652 If you like zombie movies, Juan of the Dead is a very funny Cuban movie
Como que los tamales son comida de celebración? Como así? El tamalero no pasa por tu casa o que pedo?? Los tamales son comida de los estudihambres así como los tacos de canasta, mucha gente come eso como parte de su dieta diaria porque es una comida conveniente y llenadora, no vengas con mentiras, los tamales no solo se comen en la Candelaria
Looking forward to the next Disney Princess, "vaguely central African woman from non-existent country" For real though, in my experience, authentic representation from any given culture is just... more interesting and makes for better and more unique storytelling. Different perspectives can find new compelling ways to tell stories. It was nice to get some legit analysis from those more familiar with the topic of conversation. Great work :)
**Look nervously at Iwájú** Tbf they did specify Lagos, Nigeria as the setting for that but given its a sci-fi who even knows if they'll bother to make it distinctly Nigerian or end up with amorphous afrofuturism
I can see this as the starting idea for a movie on Australia. I've been waiting for one on our Indigenous/Torres Strait Islander Peoples for decades, but I know that it's going to be so messed up and actually become offensive if it ever happens. 'Moana' is currently our only representation from down here, and Polynesian culture is completely different. Even more so when our peoples are much more land-centric in comparison (some saltwater and desert Nations never actually seeing open water), and water in our collective culture is relative to inland river systems and lakes. However, some Nations are also across our multiple island groupings, so that may be how Disney thought they could represent us in 'Moana', too. If this ever does occur, particular representations like "language on Nation" is going to be very difficult, as you're not allowed to speak in language on other peoples' Nation i.e. it's disrespectful to speak your family clans' language, when you're in another clan's area grouping. Like I mentioned earlier, we also have freshwater, saltwater, and desert communities, which creates these cultural distinctions that Disney likes, but then they need a villain for their stories... You can see where this goes.
I've been disillusioned with Disney ever since I learned the truth about Pocahontas. Now, I watch Disney princess movies for the colors and animation...while trying not to think about how a bunch of white people mess with traditional stories & cultures.
Nah they just turn all the black characters into animals for the duration of the movie.
@@jazzycat8917 i think it will be distinctly nigerian since it’s specifically set in lagos so i have hope
As a Southeast Asian, I have never felt so comforted and informed about my own cultural presence in media ever in my life
I am a Southeast Asian. And while I did enjoy watching "Raya and the Last Dragon" as it is, I don't think the term 'representation' (of Southeast Asia) should be used to describe the movie. If they say it was only 'inspired' partly by Southeast Asian culture & elements then it's fine. But even looking at the cast chosen to voice the characters, they are mostly of East Asian descent. I don't understand why Hollywood always thinks that all Asians are interchangable like that.
That’s because “diversity” in Hollywood is shallow and skin-deep. They don’t see people from the lens of unique ethnic groups, but from racial groupings based on physical features. It’s an extremely asinine and degrading viewpoint for them to see all Asians as a monolith where “representation” is just plucking a few random East Asians and calling it Southeast Asian appeal.
@@TrueMentorGuidingMoonlight I mean what did you expect, they stole the whole human races concept from the Nazis to play different immigrants against each other so they wouldn't complain about the Government back then, but only complain about each other. And they still use it for some reason. Because they just don't learn from history.
They dont really care about diversity and that each asian country is different , they just assume all asian countries are the same , same thing happens with hispanic culture
@@danielasarmiento3101 Ironically the same treatment is given to white people too. Netflix Witcher barely had any Polish actors despite the franchise being extremely Polish, rooted in Polish fairytales. But nah, they just hired a bunch of English actors for the white folk and a bunch of tokenized POCs to fill the screen every frame. Funny how being Caucasian isn’t considered diverse despite the massive variety of ethnic groups in Europe, like Anglo-Saxons, Scots, Franks, Slavs, Nords, etc.
I think this is indicative of race overall in the United states. We don't see culture. We see color. It's weird and ignorant. It's not that way with just asians.
Not as a Southeast Asian, but as an Arab I kind of relate to the struggle. Watching Aladdin (the original), i had gone in with the expectation it would be about an Arab princess in Arab culture. But the movie represented a culture that was some kind of mish mash of everything around the middle east (and for some reason India too?) and none of the voice actors were Arab. Jasmine was sexualized and most of the traditional arab features were reserved for the villainous characters. And it hurt so much because Arabs are also underrepresented, and this is all that we get? After watching Raya, i felt a similar feeling. I hardly see any southeast Asians make it big here in America, and it would have been such a great opportunity to make some southeast Asians big if they actually casted them. And why couldn't they focus on one country, like Thailand or Malaysia, why are they still doing this mishmash thing again? From one underrepresented minority to another, I'm really sorry guys :(
Thank you for your perspective! I was wondering how previous attempts like Aladdin were received, this was enlightening.
Me and my partner *just* watched Aladdin the other day and even our white af European asses with limited knowledge on all the Middle Eastern and Indian cultures noticed and were confused by the movie not being able to decide which culture(s) it was trying to represent, and movies like these 2 are such a lost and misused opportunity, and arguably might do more harm than good as they further muddy the waters of what is part of culture X and what is culture Y in the eyes of white people, and POC do not feel accurately or sufficiently represented. It's especially tragic as these are products made for kids, so the white kids see some weird generalizations of an entire region that isn't actually accurate to any part of the region and grow up thinking that's accurate, whereas POC kids have just very vague "representation" that doesn't feel like it fits but then their white peers use it to stereotype them. Like heck, in my middle school class, there was one Roma boy, and he was mockingly called "Aladdin" simply because he was slightly darker than us white kids (and well the stereotype that all Roma people are thieves certainly made this connection even easier to make as Aladdin is also a thief), even though Roma people have nothing to do with anything in Aladdin, but like also how could the kids have known that as the movie Aladdin doesn't even itself know either what culture and ethnicity it's trying to be, if only it had been more explicit in "hey, this is happening in this geographic location in this culture and ethnicity", people might not have been so insistent on misusing the movie to stereotype and mock all people who simply look "not white, but not dark enough to be black either". Sorry for the ramble, I go off on tangents easily and seeing you bring up Aladdin which I just rewatched and noticed the cultural identity crisis it has (which I understandably never noticed before as a white kid) just made my brain go brrr xD I'm sorry for the disappointment with the movie, and I really hope in future we will see movies with actually good representation for everyone's sake, I know I would genuinely want to learn more of all sorts of individual cultures and preferably directly from the source, no more of these bastardized generalized versions made by white people for white people.
@@hillomunkkiseni no no I don't mind the ramble, it was very interesting to read lol. I totally agree, these kinds of movies do end up doing more harm than good (and im really sorry about that roma boy, that must have have been horrible)
Right? Like I’m tired of the world mixing up south Asian and arab culture. We’re not even remotely the same and it’s so annoying to see people think that Indian/south Asian culture is interchangeable with arab culture when it’s not at all.
@@rotisserie8444 except for the islamic influence on the region of India. We are not related at all
Even as a white person I can confirm the problem with the word "dragon." There's a creature from Germanic and Alpine folklore called the Tatzelwurm that gets labeled as a dragon all the time because "wyrm" is used to mean "serpentine dragon." The issue is that the Tatzelwurm isn't remotely draconic in any way- it's a feline/reptile hybrid with the head and forelegs of a cat and the tail of a snake. And it doesn't even fit what most Westerners would argue defines a western dragon- it doesn't breathe fire, but rather poisonous gas. If we Westerners can't even correctly decide for *ourselves* what is and isn't a dragon, it's no wonder the term gets applied to any remotely serpentine creature from other cultures.
The thing is: in academia, a dragon is just a vaguely serpentine mythical creature. That's it. A basilisk is also a dragon. There's dragons with human heads. The ancient egyptian mythical serpent Apep is also called a dragon; the mesopotamian mushkhushshu are also called dragons. 'Dragon' isn't clearly defined; they can have no legs, up to six legs, wings, no wings, horns, no horns, the face can vary (from reptilian to mammalian to human), and so forth.
I just say dinosaurs and pterosaurs are dragons.
@Clawsfuchsia In the furry fandom (I know, I know) I've also seen 'noodle dragon' used to refer to creatures that resemble these serpentine beasts but aren't meant to be any specific creature from Eastern folklore. ("Noodle" being a reference to how they're shaped, of course, and also a term of endearment similar to how snakes are called "danger noodles".)
Noodle cat then?
“Dragon” isn’t really a class of creatures as it is shorthand to describe a specific set of features in mythological animals. A hydra could be a “dragon” the same way a long could be a “dragon”, but a hydra is not a long, and vice versa. Calling something a “dragon” is akin to calling something a “mammal” or a “fish”. It covers a lot of ground but you get a specific idea of what type of creature is being referred to.
I (German, white) noticed a while ago, how skewed my perspective of asia was. I used to work as a teacher for foreigners who wanted to visit a university in my country and needed to pass a certain test. As the company I worked for was originally chinese, I expected a lot of the "Asian" looking people in my classes to be from China. I was terribly mistaken. Many of them were Indonesian, one was from Singapore, some were Malaysian and so on and so forth. I knew that Asia is no monolith, but this was still an eye opener. Another big oof was when I talked to a colleague of mine who also looked sort of but not quite East Asian to me. Her eyes for example had the almond shape and the slight tilt inwards that many Europeans associate with the "Pan-Asian" look, but they seemed a bit too large and her skin too white. She grew up in Germany, so I had no accent to analyze. I could hear some differences in certain accents of my students, so it was quite easy for me to differentiate an Indonesian accent from for example a Chinese one at that point. But I could not see whether my colleague was from for example some area of China or maybe just someone of mixed decent. To make things worse: I only knew her nickname and not her actual name. At one point, I just asked where her family was from and she answered: "Russia" What a way to get hit by your own racism 😅
This... The many times i was angry how people were like "tan skin, double eyelids is not an asian look"and im like.... Oh wow.. Everyone here doesnt exist.. Me, a tan skin, curly haired, double eyelid asian doesnt exist... Bye bye time to disintegrate i guess. Ignorance is fine if youre willing to learn.. But ignorance is never fine when you take it as facts.
Was she tatar?
@@Inspirit-gp4dp going off of what you gave her physical description I highly doubt she would be tatar as they look like a mix of Slavic and Iranian. I think it's possible that she could be either a descendant of the indigenous peoples of Siberia who speak many languages including uralic, turkic, tuvan, yenesian, ainu, and inuit languages. or possibly a descendant of one of the two mongolian populations in Russia, the kalmyks and the buryats.
@@williamblue356 there is different groups under the name Tatar and some are much more turkic than others. Crimean Tatars are the most european and Siberian Tatars are the most Siberian/Asian.
Here in the UK, most people include Middle Eastern ethnicities under the Asian umbrella (including people from those ethnicities themselves) so I grew up with kinda the reverse of this 💀
The fact that they mashed these cultures together and tried to be so "inclusive" in a single movie speaks volumes of their intentions. They wanted this to be THE movie, the ONLY movie, that represents South East Asians. A one-and-done with no follow-up. They didn't plan to make any other movies focusing on these cultures, so they needed to cram it all in there and get it done with, to cross it off their list and forget about it.
Dig for even a little while and you quickly learn that Southeast Asia isn't even KIND of a monolith.
In trying to include everyone, they excluded everyone.
That's why it sounds like The last Airbender. The creators did mash culture together and made it work because its a fantasy world. I thought Disney was already getting away with designing young Raya as Korra. I'm not mad at it just feel "Meh" because they could've done something better
I mean they did one movie about the arab/islamic world : Aladdin This is nothing new in the disney lineup
@@bluubandette8871 Yeah, plus A:tLA/LoK never claimed that it was representation for a certain culture. Sure, it had a lot of cultural influences, (Feudal China, Imperial Japan, Tibet, Inuit peoples, Thailand, hell there's arguably references to Venice, NYC, and rednecks too) but it never claimed to be accurate to a certain culture. (Disney's made that blunder before too. A lot of Chinese people love the 1998 Mulan movie despite all its inaccuracies not only because it's good, but because it clearly wasn't trying to be a historically/culturally accurate period piece. But so many Chinese people hated the 2020 Mulan movie because not only did it suck, but because Disney made such a HUGE deal about how they were going to be super accurate to Chinese culture this time around...and then made something so fundamentally misunderstanding of Chinese culture that it made the 1998 Mulan movie look like a factual documentary.)
This video taught me about trust. It taught me never to trust Disney with culture, land, or your money.
Plus, Deadliest Fiction represents Southeast Asia better.
@@caitlyncarvalho7637 Probably because Disney said Raya was accurate and didn't follow through.
@@caitlyncarvalho7637 Depth first, representation afterward is what I would say if I was honest...but is this a prank?
@@caitlyncarvalho7637 Its not racist to represent a culture in a fantasy context but making sure what kind of representation you want to go for is important. It is also important to know that cultures which may share similarities can be wildly different.
@@caitlyncarvalho7637Bruh you trust polluting corporations with your workforce and money everyday, but with cheap entertainment, thats when you draw your line. Must be so hard to not watch Disney movies, well done, you've changed the world for the better 😍👍
Depicting Southeast Asia as a monolithic culture is like depicting the French, Spanish, Portuguese, British, Italians, Germans, Slavic people, Scandinavian people, and Turks as a monolithic European countries just because they are in Europe. Also, people have to remember that in regards to culture and society, there are difference between Filipinos in the Philippines and the "Fil-Ams" (Filipinos of American citizenship), and I am sure it is the same for SEA people who are in Southeast Asia and SEA people that are American citizens.
ATLA wasn't marketed as being representative of any one culture. It blended cultures together in a fantasy world and never claimed to take more root from any one of them. Raya on the other hand was promoted as having representation of SEA cultures but it fell flat.
I feel like the proof that the mob cared more about dunking on Lindsay than it did about critiquing Raya is that this video has to open with a discussion of Lindsay herself at all, tbh. Like her tweet by itself could never justify this level of discourse, and the fact that she has to be discussed in this video specifically because that’s become such a foundational part of online Raya discourse says a lot about who and what was the priority in the discourse - and it wasn’t the feelings of SEAs.
it's almost as if it was coordinated to go down this way, like the discourse was manipulated to devolve into Lindsay harassment
Man...that sucks.
I think the issue was that Lindsay already had two groups of ready political enemies. 1. Socially liberal people originally mad at her for being two degrees of separation from Buck Angel. 2. Socially conservative people originally mad at her abortion documentary from a decade ago. The pandemic just allowed for all of them to all gang up on her at once, whether justified or not, and the Raya thing just gave them an excuse. But none of their issues had anything to do with Raya or SE Asia. Edit: I should explain that these groups were jumping on after an intial argument that DID have to do with Raya and was as this video stated, started by an author of Asian descent, but by the time Lindsay made "Mask Off" she was addressing just about everything else anyone had ever been mad at her for, with the Raya issue almost entirely lost.
@@gentlerat And Leftists like me are: "What the fuck did she do so wrong? Twitter is full of sharks it would seem. "
@@grnmjolnir it's all pent up impotence. They can't change anything real but they can feel powerful for a moment by dragging somebody.
I’m Tahitian and tbh Moana had similar issues for me with representation. While Polynesian cultures have a lot more similarities than differences, we all have our own distinct traditions and histories when it comes to clothing, dance, language, and societal structures. While there were a lot of familiarities to me and my mom when we watched the film, it also felt like we were watching everything blended into one thing to the point it was only just that-familiar.
To be fair, the creators sort of set Moana in a Disneyfied version of the time the Polynesian expansion stopped before resuming, around a millennia ago or something, so the blending of cultures was intentional, as current cultural differences developed over time. For the navigator song (I think the English name is We Know The Way????), the singer Opetai'a Foa (apologies for potential misspellings) blended words from various Polynesian languages. That is not to say your criticism is invalid. We all deserve culturally specific representation! But at least there was a specific artistic intention with how the cultural elements were handled. Was this justified? Could the filmmakers have done differently? That's not for me to say, that's for the Pasifika community to determine. But, at least, they weren't trying to be culturally indifferent.
@@nusquamnemo4780 It would be cool if they had him sing straight-up proto-Polynesian, I looked it up and that is a linguistic reconstruction that has been made. It would make perfect sense with what you’re describing. But I know that reconstructed ancestor languages can be… a little bit tricky to work with, to say the least. Especially one with comparatively little research put into it as opposed to one like PIE, or at least I imagine so.
@ ミツ -- It sounds like they did a way lazier and more offensive version of what AtLA did, which was taking inspiration from a lot of sources, except unlike AtLA (which tried to be very respectful of its source cultures, and to not copy anything exactly as it was irl into the show), they put on their Expert Authority voice and claimed it all as one culture. . And maybe really thought it was all the same because they didn't do actual research as scrolled past google search results and grabbed this and snagged that, here and there, without even visiting the source site to verify what they were actually looking at.
*"didn't do actual research so much as scrolled" . (typo)
but that's not really disney's fault, they can't make a movie that everyone will relate to
I'm confused. Nothing Ellis said was even referring to Asian cultures??? Wasn't her tweet just comparing structures/plots??? She didn't mention the filter till the third tweet, not till after people started getting mad at her. What did any of that have to do with the culture? /gen Edit: so I watched for another like two minutes and got to where she talked about this. I can't believe Twitter got mad about this. "I don't thing these narratives are actually similar, therefore Ellis must be making a comparison based on culture and is holding Atla as the epitome of asian représentation so I'm going to flame her online for being racist"
Thank you guys for explaining what happened with Lindsay Ellis. I'm sorry about all the SEAsians people who were harassed and bullied out of Twitter. I feel, like this part is erased, when people complain about what happened to her. I also feel, like a lot of people had been hating on LE (for reasons, I cant understand) and used this occasion to unleash all their anger at once at her. And it was clear, that the representation issue was only use as an excuse for that. At times like this, self-proclaimed "allies" scare the hell out of me.
I remember when the Ellis drama on twitter went down, I was so pissed off when a white guy showed up on my reply to LE "supposedly" to support my voice. In reality they're there to see her cancelled, and I yelled at him for it. Halfway through the video now, and let me just say, hearing fellow South East Asians complain about how people generally skip us when it comes to representation? So effing gratifying. Like no offense to anyone (especially East Asians but you do be the most visible Asians around here), but we're mostly tired of being excluded from the narrative when Asians are invoked, because apparently to them we don't look Asian enough. I, as a native Filipino, am tired of being told I was colonized for 333 years so the Spanish influence makes me not Asian enough. To think I was so giddy that one time I visited Singapore and the taxi driver told me I look Malaysian, because finally I'm actually recognized as South East Asian and not some random brown female-looking person, because a fellow South East Asian recognized me as kin. We SEAsians don't get a lot of chances to let ourselves be heard. So Xiran-dada, thank you so much for this.
The least they could do is let the culture show in the clothings and Sisu (someone actually redesigned Sisu into more of a Balinese/Javanese naga and she looks cute there), but they couldn't even do that.
why is it always the white men 😭
I despise how the Internet decided to treat her when she definitely wasn’t the first person to even make that comparison. White men (like Honest Trailers) had already made that comparison. People wanted an excuse to just rip her to shreds. Peak moment of the left eating their own considering her right wing detractors never managed it in the past. Her explanation video (because she only had a few ill-chosen old comments to actually apologise for) was absolutely heartbreaking.
@@LadyAhro exactly on the part that people aside from ellis were already making the comparison. i remember those popular movie or tv instagram pages posting things saying young raya’s outfit looked like korra’s n comments along the lines of saying “we’re getting another legend of korra”
@@M00NL9GHT I think for the same reason it's always teen white girls for us. There's a weird fetishization going on I think...
Really funny here in the Philippines how Encanto, a mostly Spanish-inspired animated film, got magnitudes more attention and love over here than the "South-East Asian" Raya, which I didn't even know existed until I saw other people on twitter talking about how they've never heard of the movie. Could be the post-colonial mentality talking, but damn did Disney miss hard on this one.
Yeh same, I think the reason we like it cause we relate to some degree (300+ yrs of ol spain tho i wish More Filipinos, Media and the country would be interested or search more about pre-col philippines czuse its fascinating anyway back to topic) since you just knowing about it recently isnt really ur fault i guess bec it wasnt talked as much cause: One. Its on Disney Plus which it isnt even in many areas of SEA Two. Its a disappointing movie (it would have been better if disney said its INSPIRED by the variety of culture in SEA.)
It is not a post colonial mentality Spanish and Mexican influence is part of being Filipino. Many People (Filipinos) actually don't know what is Filipino because history is not prioritize and only one Ethnic group is prioritize or Ethnic boundaries are being destroyed.
@@himasekiwari155 If you bother to look, you will pre colonial Philippine is very different. IMO Spain is worst colonial power compared to British in the preserving native culture aspect.
Not just you, I read a lot of comment from Malaysian that says Encanto feels really relatable to them because of the family oriented theme and the mixed skin colour.
The unavailability of Disney+ in the Philippines probably contributed to people not hearing about it ...but then again, ang lakas natin mang-pirate ng movies so i guess its indicative na di siya nagclick sa atin haha
As a SEAsian myself (Indonesia), I personally loved Raya as a concept (action-packed story with a lot of ties to my culture; a bit like Mulan) but felt that it fell short on execution. The themes of trust and unity esp do not resonate with me. Personally, I think that the themes of colonialism and/or spirituality or tradition vs modernism/globalisation, would have been more fitting for the setting. I also think that basing it on one culture instead of having a SEA frankenstein would have helped the movie. Would’ve loved to see a disney movie based in an Indonesia-like setting, but alas, this was what we got 😢.
I'm brown Indonesian and it was cool to see someone who I could've gone to school or see myself in, but the rest of it was disappointing. The cultural details were merely an aesthetic and I was wholly confused by the plot/story. I wish they would've used one of the well-known legends from SEA. Also felt unfair to have a lot of Western and EA influence/participants in the context of Moana, Coco and now Encanto. They do a lot of research and take a lot of care to get the representation right for those. Just because they're more unfamiliar with SEA culture they can't do it well? I don't think so. Also the message was so unclear and I think either not fully fleshed out or dangerously simplified. I thought it was a fun movie the first time I saw it, but when I tried to rewatch it, I actually felt infuriated and turned it off. Maybe I'll show it to my kids one day because it's still a fun kids movie and she is brown SEA, but it's really to bad it wasn't done better.
Working through the presentations now, this is so much more refreshing than most coverage of Raya out there. I'm Malaysian btw and hated the (lack of) 'representation' there was in Raya. I mean, they don't even know how durian are cut...
Durian! Don't know it as a caribbean person but know of it cause my Malayalsian colleague during my PhD would not shut up about it lol. I hope to try it one day.
@@BeautifulEarthJa Just keep in mind there are many types, like bitter and sweet. A lot of people hate one kind but love the other.
in the same boat as Veronica hah. Heard so much of it from a malaysian friend in an mmorpg of all places, and now i'm hopelessly curious
yeah even most of reviews are basically "well at least they tried" and just brushed it off lmao.
Yes! I love durian! My dad was born in Malaysia and he absolutely loves it. Back in 2019 I had the pleasure of visiting Malaysia with him and we went to a durian farm it was awesome as I had only ever gotten to try durian that was previously frozen here in the US
I'm Scottish, and I feel the same way about "Brave", despite the marketing of Pixar's first princess, apparently forgetting about Princess Atta from "A Bug's Life", and taking place in medieval Scotland, it did not represent Scottish culture well. It was more like "Renaissance fair the movie", an American pop culture interpretation of medieval history, and representing Celtic heritage, so instead the movie has a lot of Scottish stereotypes kept alive by Hollywood, such as kilts covering the nether regions, Scottish accent jokes, haggis, Scots as violent Jocks, treating Celtic heritage as a monolith, and Scotland as a primitive, empty country. The Yanks also have a bad habit of thinking the Highlands represents ALL of Scotland, as a result, the rest of Scotland remains underrepresented in American media, and much of Scottish culture is left out in favour of the Highlanders. If you want a film that represents Celtic culture and Celtic people, watch "Wolfwalkers", and that was actually made by Irish filmmakers.
Oh yeah, I found the "it is all for naught" accent scene ... Strange? Why would someone from the Highlands be taught what is essentially "Queen's English", DESPITE IT NOT EVEN EXISTING AT THAT TIME. Modern British accent is a relatively new thing. Haven't seen Wolfwalkers yet, but I recommend the other animations by the same team (they're more Irish than anything though) - The Book of Kells, and Song of the Sea. Now, Song of the Sea - that's a genuinely beautiful movie.
And Scottish and Irish people got shouted over by non-Celtic people in the United States who loved Brave, too, just like how SEA get shouted over when they talk about Raya. Disney makes a theme park rendition of a culture or multiple cultures and then sells it to other cultures without much thought given to accuracy.
Brave heart was pretty good
Luckily Disney will never do the same thing for my home region(north eastern Netherlands), because I would cringe for being compared to general dutch stereotypes.
Celtic cultures are so underrepresented. I'm English but I've lived in Wales most of my life and it's annoying how little Wales or Welsh culture is represented.
Adding to the well-made criticisms here, one of my own problems with the films was just how "MCU-ified" the film felt. A ragtag bunch of wise-cracking misfits have to join forces to collect macguffin gemstones. Also look at the poster and general vibe from the trailer.
Not exactly, you're missing a moment when Namaari says "I am...inevitable!" calmly.
The ending scene was also literally just that scene from Guardians 1. Where Peter was holding the power stone and they all shared the pain with him.
My biggest problem with it was that it felt like someone watched ATLA and went "Yeah, I can fit that into two hours". There was just way too much stuff to do with the story and characters for such a short movie
You know you done goofed when a Nicktoon from 15 years back has better side characters.
Finally, calling out the performative and violent reaction to Lindsay Ellis' tweet. The initial backlash was so irritating as a SEAsian person and a fan of Lindsay. Discussion is all well and good, but using SEA representation as a weapon to harrass someone is so frustrating, I can't even talk about it. It wasn't the first time I experienced the Western-focused internet losing their minds and yelling over SEA voices regarding SEA issues. Thank you for hosting these voices and these comments. Ngl I was wary of the video thumbnail and title, but in the end you stayed true to the values you've established from the start, and I'm glad. Cheers, Xiran!
I was so glad that Zhao pretty much immediately dug into why the way Lindsay was treated was 99.99% utter bullshit. Unfortunately, the people that need to hear this (those that were *salivating* at the chance to dogpile a big creator) aren't going to listen, or worse yet, could come after Zhao and the team that helped put all this together for daring to be thoughtful adults about it. I especially appreciated the part where they put into words what I had felt about the situation the whole time: What do these people going to bat for big corporate product and viciously attacking a KZheadr *think* they're accomplishing? It's pretty obvious at this point that it was never about lifting up a SEA piece of work.
you ask these people which countries are south east asian and they'd show you china at best
Here's the thing, we just celebrated CHINESE New Year and a lot of WHITE PEOPLE took the opportunity to try and cancel me for not calling it "LUNAR New Year" and accused me of not being inclusive. I'm Chinese. Chinese New Year is a different date from Lunar New Year in other countries. I believe in social justice too but it's ridiculous when people who don't understand my culture decided they needed to teach it to me??? To be fair, I use a pseudonym online and not my birth name but the term Chinese New Year isn't offensive in any way. They also call it Tahun Baru Cina here, which exactly translates to Chinese New Year.
@@liriodendronlasianthus yeah, people outside of a culture trying to educate native people in it is literally a colonizer mentality, it’s so frustrating
@@liriodendronlasianthus its just fucking stupid HAHAHAH i swear white people take more offense than the actual peiple themselves
1:11:30 “SEA is haunted as hell”, couldn’t agree more. Almost everything in SEA culture is related to GHOST in some way.
Ghost? Maybe, but mostly spirits
i like how all of SEA collectively decided one of the scariest things to encounter in the night is a random ass ghost/monster lady disemboweling your organs and/or eating fetuses
@@zaqareemalcolm of course,ghost is scary,that's why i never go outside at night
There's an origin legend here in Indonesia about that and it's also tied to be really religious. So, once upon a time, when the earth is yet to be dwelled by humans; the spirits, jinns, demons, you name it, all live on earth as much as they liked, they're incorporeal beings so their presence didn't really bother the corporeal beings such as animals and the like. Until one day, it's decreed that humans will start living on earth so every spirit was banished over the seas. So, where did they go? You guessed it. The bunch islands in the middle of the sea. After getting banished to the islands, the spirits remade their civilizations on the islands, some hoped to return to the 'main land' but couldn't go that far off beyond the peninsular area which encapsulated the continental-based SEA countries, which is the reason why SEA countries had a lot of ghost stories and superstitions. Of course, a lot of intermarriages and shared cultures also boosted this. We love us our horror stories.
@@zaqareemalcolm or r@pe you. Yea... There is a myth like that in my country
Kinda reinforces the fact that focusing on one culture representation at a time makes for a better detailed quality output. Like focusing on just Colombia for Encanto, and not the entirety of Latin America.
I am part filipino and i remember sitting down to watch this with my mom for the first time and feeling so excited to see even just a bit of filipino rep in a full disney movie and i remember one of the first and only things my mom said while watching the movie was something like “we aren’t like that” or “we don’t have that.” it was honestly so disappointing
As a Myanmar, I can understand that you didn't get anyone from Myanmar since the country is in chaos currently. When I watched Raya, I didn't really see a lot of culture representation of my country except from similar clothes. Not like any other cartoon has done but I had some expectations from Raya. I thought it would have at least done good representation for other countries until I see your video. Amazing video presentation
See, and that is the problem. If they just had done the movie (bit more dilligent maybe) without all the touting about representation, you maybe would have just watched it and thought, "Hey, i know that!". But with all that build up, you NEED to deliver. And that failed (again) at that.
@@2nd_Directorate I've not really seen any corporate media (except documentary I guess) that brags about their "cultural representation" and then ended up actually do anything meaningful (if any) with it. It's 99% of the time straight up pandering because they know white critics will praise them for it no matter what and generally people desperate enough for representation would accept it no matter what
For what it was, the movie was entertaining to say the least. However, it wasn't something I truly sought for after watching. It was just surface level representation here and there. Characters kinda looked like me and some food and clothes that are native to SEA i got to see; But that's all really.
Ikr.Since I saw the movie I've always thought about how it is so similar to Avatar.I'm burmese as well yet I couldn't tell which countries culture are represented when I watch only clips of it.While in other disney movies related to representation you could really tell which is which.
Hey are you still under military dictatorship? I haven't read or looked up anything about your situation since the coup. Hope you can have more quiet times soon.
"I am east Asian, not southeast Asian." It's amazing how many people don't know there's a difference. Or, for that matter, that there's a significant difference between Chinese, Korean, Japanese, and Mongolians. It's like Shakespeare's famous line, "It's all Greek to me." Only with Asians. And this is my problem with racial discourse. Although our current racial models are certainly less narrow-minded than the old Negroid/Caucasiod/Mongoloid model, they're still very obsessed with arbitrary physical distinctions and people largely just use it to lump lots of people together regardless of how similar or different those people are. To me, what should matter most is culture.
Same with Europeans. Even though there many different cultures with hundreds of years of history, we are all just white.
@@maras00jr49 the byproduct of American cultural hegemony and ignorance.
@@Mica_T I would argue that that was intentional as the US grew over the centuries
I am Vietnamese but many people ask if I am Chinese, Japanese etc. I shrug it off but it’s still a bit weird you know? I don’t hate people though!!
when they say asians, theyre talking abt east asian. Indians are not even considered asians anymore lol.
"Why nouns are annoying, language was a mistake, and we should stop calling things dragons." 😂 This cracked me up! Honestly the humor and info throughout are so on lovely. Gunalchéesh (thank you)!
1:39:36 - this whole part of the video was so true. I’m Filipino and it kinda sucks how we are almost non-existent in popular media. It’s worse knowing that there are barely any Filipino characters or actors in Raya- a movie that’s supposedly “authentic” to all of southeastern Asian culture. tbh I felt *way* more recognized watching that single scene in Spider-Man No Way Home with Ned and his grandma who are both filipino. All in all, this is a GREAT video ✨
The Lindsey Ellis drama was unnecessary and performative. There was no reason to blow it up. She clarified what she meant and the trolls decided to do what they love and try to destroy a person.
Many people attacked her about talking about lgbt issues years ago saying she doesn't have the place yo discuss them....when she is in fact apart of the community.
And on her video "Mask Off" she showed evidence of just how much and how deep haters were willing to search for every single minor thing that's she's ever said that could be in the slightest "controversial", which only goes to show how hateful these people are Gosh like Lindsay is not perfect but no one is, and she has always been much more sensitive, empathetic and well-researched than most of the KZheadrs out there She brought a sense of sophistication and commitment to her work we hadn't seen before on this platform
I feel like it's noteworthy how a man's voice throwing out a lukewarm take, even in jest, got zero reaction, but a woman throwing out basically the same take immediately started a huge internet riot involving heaps of harassment and aggression.
Honestly I always got the impression that people were desperate for something--anything, because they were waiting to have an excuse to hate her. There's a few youtubers that are like that; they pretty much do 99.999% of things right but earn a hate crew regardless that are neurotically obsessed with taking them down.
For someone who built a career on criticism, she sure couldn’t take it or differentiate between valid criticism and trolling. I used to enjoy her videos but she showed an embarrassing lack of humility and accountability. Screaming about her experiences with sexual violence in order to silence hurt viewers with valid questions about her past content soured her to me forever. She’s not some poor bullied helpless girl, she has no sense of accountability, and abruptly left KZhead and tried to guilt trip her audience into continuing to pay her staff who she essentially fired with no notice months after the controversy died down and she had returned to releasing content.
Finally! Finally someone has pointed out that 90% of the cast are EAST ASIANS. NOT SOUTH EAST ASIANS. The lack of representation in this movie is so disappointing. Why market it as SEA representation when we saw NOTHING that even screams SEA???? Even when you said that the Heart palace took inspiration from Istana Negara, I was like; WHERE THOUGH???? As a Malaysian, I see Istana Negara all the damn time since I was young and I don't even see a lick of it. That tiny ass dome? Hell no. In Malaysia, we also have a large number of indigenous people and even then, not even 1% of their culture were even represented in Raya. Another thing I disliked about Raya (apart from the whole lack of representation), is the story itself. If trust was such a big theme in Raya, why was it portrayed to blindly trust everybody?? You can't teach children to just trust anybody they meet because that's not how the world works and I agree that Sisu shouldn't have preached about trust because her situation with her siblings is NOT the same with what happened with Raya. I'm still a bit sus about the whole 'betrayal' thing cause they only just met and have known each other for at least..... a few hours. So that deep level of betrayal is so.... shallow. If Raya was only angry with the Fang tribe because she wanted to save everyone, then I'm okay with her being angry. Yet, all she cared about was just one person. How are you supposed to lead your people if you don't care about your people? Even THAT is not the South East Asian way. I don't even want to get into the ending. It was so stupid. Fang didn't get punished because they were.... sorry. What about doing time?? Sorry, I got too heated. I'm just so frustrated with this movie.
This video is an almost two hour long roast. I think you can afford to get a little heated.
@@carterlove7293 Good point.
@@carterlove7293 PART 2 as well. In total it's basically 4h!
This movie was so disappointing. I know nothing about Asian culture, but the story itself was horrible. Also, f that creepy ninja baby. That thing completely broke any immersion I tried to have.
Malays getting more annoyed about a movie for cultural insensitivity than the racism of the Bumiputra policy is a whole mood tbh
Still in the first 24 minutes in, and I completely agree! As a fellow southeast asian (Filipino), I was initially excited for the movie, thinking I could see a glimpse of our culture in a Disney film, and though I still enjoyed the movie as a whole (even laughed at some of the jokes), I still feel disappointed that they kinda "merged" all the SEA countries into one, when in reality, though we have some similarities, there are still major differences on our culture as a whole. Unfortunately, now that Disney has made this film, it is highly unlikely that they will make another one solely representing a specific SEA country/culture. Meaning in the end, I have a feeling that my country may never be properly represented (at least by Disney). :(
For a case study/comparison; there is a RPG game called Indivisible which take inspiration from SEA/Indian culture. As a SEAsian myself, I think the game does a great job on interpreting SEA culture in a very fun and interesting way in both visual and story.
i haven't finished this video yet. but this topic coming up reminded me of how when raya was announced i saw so many other south east asians including myself being really excited to see themselves in the big picture. and then when it came out it was radio silence. i didn't even know the movie was released until i saw someone bring it up in disney queer discourse. but i get why too. the movie being "sorta maybe your country maybe possibly a little bit" really annoyed me when i found out and i never watched it because of that lol. the story's probably not that bad, but the disappointment after all our excitement still kinda sticks
The story kinda sucked too. I got what they were going for, but it just felt so bland, and after watching the film i though "Great, almost two hours of padded runtime, only the beginning and the end have anything genuinely engaging happening."
The story is shit. xD And the message is worse xD
fellow southeast asian here, yeah it did really suck :( I was really happy thinking "aaw Disney's making something that takes inspiration off of my country and its neigbors" and was ultimately disappointed, at the most the inspiration seemed surface level at best not to mention on sissu's design. good god she looks like an elongated unicorn, that is NOT what our dragons look like from what I remember too, the story was okay, it could've worked, but the pacing was awful
@@mattybrunolucaszeneresalas9072 oh yeah! disney queer discourse is the absolute worst. thankfully i wasn't really there for any raya stuff since i avoided that movie ^^'
As a SEA myself, i was pretty skeptical… i wanted to love it so much but i just cant… 😭😭😭
I think MY biggest complaint with this movie, as a southeast asian (Filipino) is that it wasn't a musical. Like there was literally no excuse for this movie NOT to be a musical. From the stuff I read online, they wanted it to be very "Action" centric. But Moana was very action centric and is ALSO a musical, and is hands down one of the best Disney movies to come out in recent times.
I agree completely. They made the same mistake with live action Mulan.
This is the only Disney Princess movie without singing and it upsets me. Disney princess songs are a great narrative tool for Understanding the protagonist on a deeper level. Without it Raya feels a bit off.
@@Lexivor To be fair, the original Mulan was BARELY a musical. There's like, four songs in it before it decided to become a straight forward action movie, and after that, the only song we get to hear is "true to your heart" by 98 degrees. If I were directing the live action Mulan, I also would've just cut the songs.
@@whatalsaid I think I saw a video somewhere that that was the point. The first half of Mulan is lighthearted and we are going to slay the huns with our awesome training and become heros! But then they reach the massacared village and reality hits. There is nothing glorious in going to war. Also the movie was supposed to be nostalgic clickbait and the music was what separated it from the other Mulan incarnations. All the other remakes had music + 1 Emmy bait song. Why not Mulan? To make it "realistic and edgy?" Bruh we saw how that played out.
@@CrystalDragen Especially when Mulan uses those songs very effectively. "I'll Make a Man Out of You" is both a great training montage song, and reinforces all the gender themes of the movie. Then there's "A Girl Worth Fighting For" and the ending of them finding the wrecked village, which as mentioned was an incredibly effective way to shift the mood. Just saying, the animated movie used it's songs extremely well.
"imagine if your pride was holding you back from stopping a life-threatening pandemic" as a brazilian, that one hit hard. so hard.
Goodness----THIS is what the team in-charge of Raya should've been!! I learned so much already in this 2-hour video than I've learned about even american history at school. Not only that, but as a writer, I'm growing more aware of my own worlds and characters and where I'm really drawing inspiration, especially from my own diasporic culture and internal conflicts from it.
"Don't join in conversations that you don't have the full context of" words to try and live by... this video was a masterpiece..thanks for putting this type of content out into the world..it's needed
The joining in is not the problem. Thinking you allready know everything is. Everyone needs these discussions, irrelevant of the stand of knowledge. How could we otherwise learn. And life experiences are still valid, regardless from where we all hail from. As long as the willingness to learn is present, there shouldn´t be a problem.
Counterpoint: Twitter will implode if it can't run on context-free outrage bait… wait, that actually sounds amazing 😂 For real, it's a pretty good aphorism to try to live by. The internet would be a much less toxic place if we could all restrain ourselves from jumping into other people's ponds and flailing wildly, so to speak. We also need to give room for people to learn and grow, though, so we'll have to find a middle ground. Not assuming "I'm right" is a good start, as is listening to others with an open mind.
@@2nd_Directorate that's basically what Op is saying. because essentially people say the original statement to people who act like they know everything when they know nothing. interesting to realise how words can be different but the meanings are the same with context
It is genuinely baffling that anyone could make a "travel from place to place" adventure story "inspired by" the vast array of diverse Southeast Asian nations, yet still go with a lukewarm pastiche of cultural aesthetics. They might as well have had Raya find all the pieces in her home kingdom, if they had no intention of exploring distinctions between the regions/communities she passes through.
Honestly, as over used as the comparisons to ATLA is, the story concept of Raya would have been MUCH better as a series with the majority of a season in one nation.
It is interesting how they chose to make every place a very bland location instead of havin not-indonesia, not-malaysia, and so on.
@@An_Actual_Rat And it's 'wrong'? I don't get the hysteria.. Watched the movie and thought it was nice. A nice fantasy movie. Seriously don't get the framing and forced outrage.
@@HAYAOLEONE When your story tries to represent a culture, in this case many cultures, yes it is.
@@madsmbrc.g8644 Hello. I asked you nothing, young human. The movie is animated fantasy for kids. Aren't you tired of whining like a needy old woman? Bye, non/barely 'Asian' young human.
Absolutely enlightening breakdown. I get the feeling that Disney never actually intended to represent SEA cultures in their film. They threw together a mishmash of culturally-"themed" ideas, and then only as an afterthought they tried to pitch it like some form of representation.
I still can't get over the fact that one of the best youtubers was chased off of the internet because of a 4/10 movie
In terms of the lack of SEA cast to voice the characters, I completely agree that they botched it. You know how I know they were lying to cover their asses when they talked about choosing East Asian actors to voice SEA characters “because they were the best for the job”? Because Encanto had a bigger cast of characters and only one country to pull voice actors from, and yet somehow they succeeded in getting and entirely Colombian and Colombian-American cast to voice the characters. And yet they couldn’t find, like, 12 good voice actors in ALL of Southeast Asia, or hell, even diaspora SEA voice actors? Yeah, I call bullshit
They also could have recruited a group of Norwegians, Swedes, Danes, Icelanders, and/or Faroese to voice the characters in "How to Train Your Dragon." Almost 21 million people; they could've found enough voice actors. Yet one of the only HTTYD voice actors with any Scandinavian descent is Kristen Wiig, who is part Swedish. Most of the rest are U.S.ian, Canadian, English, or Scottish. They also could have found some Sámi voice actors to voice the Northuldra in "Frozen II," and some German ones to voice the characters in "Tangled."
@@mlpfimstories2245 "How to Train Your Dragon" is a dreamworks movie btw , not disney .
@@reib.2853 Irrelevant. It's still a valid argument. If you're going to criticize Raya for not having SEA actors, then you would also criticize How To Train Your Dragon for not having Scandinavian actors. Unless you like double standards.
@@hoominbeeing this recks of “All Lives Matter” if you want to point out how HTTYD failed do a video about it, don’t use it as a reason to minimize the subject of THIS video. Also the marketing from Dreamworks is totally different: they keep it as a fantasy with viking folklore elements, or Kung Fu Panda that was marketed as a “love letter to kung fu movies” they never used other cultures as a marketing tool, they made explicit what and why they’re using element of other cultures - no the case with Disney and Rays.
@@biazacha I didn't bring it up. This is a reply to the reply of someone who brought it up lol. Secondly, yes, you do have a point. If a show specifically states it's trying to accurately present a culture, then it should try to be more accurate. Thirdly, what's wrong with all lives matter?
So glad you covered the absurdity of the Lindsay Ellis situation. She got canceled over a joke dozens of other people made before her. Ridiculous, especially since the creators said the comparison was fine months before this shit went down
This is the first I'm learning that she resigned. It's a great loss. And what was gained by harassing her? Only more pain and grief in the world.
Twitter seems to have an extremely unfair hate boner towards her, these people want her to be held accountable for every little "transgression". Which is complete madness, these Twittards are conducting a modern-day witch hunt, but they'll claim she "had it coming" for whatever perceived wrongs she has done. And will look at you dead in the eye and say with a straight face and conviction in their voicez that they "did the right thing." -_- I'm not going to pretend Ellis is a saint, but she certainly didn't and doesn't deserve this constant barrage of hate and vitriol she's been getting over the years.
I think she was the target of a lot of hate (I don't know why) before that point and folk just used it as amumition. I think the actual discussion was just a backdrop for these people. I don't adore the lady and I'm not a fan, but I don't care for sending death threats on Twitter.
I hate twitter. Literally these 14 year olds who never go outside would much rather ruin every celebrities career over the tiniest things regardless of context instead of do something productive. I've literally seen them cancel a Mexican content creator for speaking Spanish because he knows dream or something and he therefore has to be a bad person in every way. Likd. Shut up.
All of these white kids on Twitter are running around ruining the good representation that is Encanto and then saying that everyone who makes LGBT headcanons are ignoring the message o the movie. Me, a Colombian person has been harassed by kids too young to be on Twitter telling me I can't relate to characters in my own way because a couple assholes decided to overlook representation for their own headcanons, cmon.
Being an ignorant European, I had no idea about this cultural... mess? around Raya and the Last Dragon as I have next to no knowledge of Southeast Asian cultures. However, I love this format since it uses your influence to highlight SEA voices, thank you for this very interesting insight!
Raya’s regions are literally the Sahara, Antarctica, A wet market, A rice field, and Singapore 💀💀💀
Wait why didn't Disney just do what they did for Encanto? For Encanto Disney chose 1 South American country and based the whole movie off Colombia. Disney could've chosen 1 southeast Asian country and based the whole movie on that one country. It would still technically be SEA and it would probably be more accurate culturally. I don't know if all the voice actors in Encanto were all Colombian, but still it wouldn't have hurt Disney to include as many SEA voice actors as they can and have them sing in their respective languages.
why only milk 1 country's culture when you can mesh 11 and get more money and brownie points? meanwhile those 11 countries has hundreds of cultures so yeah!!
I think it comes down to the reason for Disney making each movie. Encanto is meant to be a nice animated flick for the holidays. The movie honestly doesn’t have a lot of expectations in the company other than to make money and be received positively, so they let the creative team who started it have more freedom. On the other hand, Raya is supposed to be the next addition to the Disney princess brand. It had a ton riding on it such as marketing tie-ins, toys, merchandise, maybe a future addition to a Disney park. It was the big production that executives took control of, which suffocated most of the actual meaningful cultural representation in order to make it more marketable to as many audiences as possible. This is all only what I think though
From what I’ve read, all the cast for Encanto were either first- or second-generation Colombian. So yeah...as far as representative casting goes, Encanto blows Raya out of the water. Lol
With Encanto, it seems like there was a lot of love and appreciation for the culture. With Raya, it felt more like a cashgrab, Disney wanting to check off "Southeast Asia" on their animation representation list.
@@blubbydragon5381 Encanto has no shortage of merchandise. That said, I wonder if you're right about Raya being ruined by executive meddling. One of the most immediate and noticeable inaccuracies was the design of the dragon. Sisu looks more like an Eastern dragon, something that westerners are very familiar with. But concept art shows designs more accurate to SEA dragons. They KNEW what SEA dragons looked like but went with an Eastern design, and the only explanation I can think of for that is that they thought the Eastern design would be more palatable to western audiences.
After Lindsey Ellis was repeatedly hit over the head with that command to listen to POC voices by people who were clearly trying to drag her down rather than actually uplift POC, I'm more than a little psyched to see an in depth educated take from some of said POC. This is going to take me several sessions to finish, but I suspect your takes are going to be very contradictory to what those who appropriated and weaponized your "voices" implied would be so.
So sick of white people getting offended on POC's behalf. Or on behalf of any marginalized group- I'm disabled and have seen people get all up in arms over shit they label ableist without taking disabled people's opinion into account.
@@MissSpaz yes like what happened with the fan- art of Encanto. The problem was that Sega (the girl who complained) believed that the latinos we would be greatful with her.. When on fact, a lot of latinos got mad with her. Sega and Ellis made a storm in a glass of water.
@@MissSpaz It's projection, really; they make themselves feel better and less racist by attacking other white people for doing something wrong or clumsy, so they can pat themselves on the back and assure themselves that they can't be racist since they've affirmed that they're morally superior to the person they're harassing. They're irrationally afraid of being percieved as racist, so they can't accept that sometimes people make mistakes or sometimes things come out wrong, or that alright people can still be ignorant, because then they'd have to accept that there's a chance they themselves hold some racist views, and so instead anyone who they see saying something that can be percieved as racist, has to be a cartoonishly evil villain, rather than someone who just needs some education.
Now, I know Mulan (2020) was a train wreck, but I'm glad that the one good thing we got out of that movie was the creation of this channel! You rock girl!
Because of that, I can never call Mulan(2020) irredeemable. It’s a bad movie but far from the worst ever or irredeemable.
This is such a great example of elevating marginalized voices! Thank you so much for doing so much work to facilitate these awesome people in educating all of us!
People harassing Lyndsay Ellis off the internet while simultaneously ignoring the opinions of SEA people who they claimed they were defending... I couldn't believe what I was seeing. Like, that was so, so dumb. All of it. I actually decided to leave Twitter because of it. lol
Yeah I was never much on Twitter, but that insanity ensured I'd never step foot there again. One of the craziest 'chronically online' things I've ever seen.
I’m Filipino American and I remember the casting made me so frustrated with the lack of SEA actors. I’m still mad about it. Among the actors I’m familiar with and who worked with Disney are Lea Salonga, Deedee Magno Hall, Brenda Song, and Dante Basco. Disney could’ve at least had some of them voice someone or sing in the movie but we didn’t get that. Disney had/has no excuse for the lack of SEA actors in a movie marketed for Southeast Asians and it makes me so frustrated
I remember couldn’t even mad anymore I just laughed when I realized Daniel Dae Kim’s character looks exactly just like him
I do wonder how many actors are actually willing to do voice acting work though.
@@NinHawAssassin you won’t know if you never ask them to audition
@Luis Suazo YO that movie was whitewashed af
@@NinHawAssassin Deedee Magno Hall, Brenda Song, and Dante Basco all voiced cartoons before. Basco was the voice of Zuko in Avatar: The Last Airbender, Deedee was Pearl in Steven Universe and Brenda Song is currently Anne Boonchuy in Amphibia.
This the most thorough video essay I have ever watched. It feels like I am back at university watching my lecturers bring in great presentations. I wish to see something like this again, even if it would take near forever.
Lindsay Ellis cancellation makes me completely angry, Twitter just decided to completely punch a person for absolutely no reason. I never used twitter again in my life and I'll never will. People making discourse on twitter are never to be trusted.
Yeah, a lot of people just went after her for personal reasons (she had ended up on the wrong end in a lot of drama long before this had happened, but she still didn't deserve it).
she's been problematic for ages and alwys has the worst takes. good riddance
Now it’s X and run by a corrupt egotist with his head in the stardust.