STOP Buying NEW Audio Gear to "Fix" Your Problems!
In this video, I discuss why you shouldn't just run out and buy new audio gear with the hopes that upgrading your existing equipment will automatically guarantee you better sound. There are many factors that govern sound quality in your listening space that should be considered BEFORE making new audio purchases such as your room acoustics, seating locations, speaker placement and calibration. Fixing problematic system set up can often be the BIGGEST upgrade in sound quality you could make. NEVER try to fix the sound of your system using unproven audio tweaks, especially exotic or overpriced audio cables.
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Recommended Subwoofers:
SVS SB-1000 Pro: audioadvice.io/36Pea3a
SVS PB-1000 Pro: audioadvice.io/3sreeyk
SVS SB-3000: bit.ly/SVSSB3000Sub
Paradigm Defiance X12: bit.ly/ParadigmX12
Perlisten D15s: bit.ly/PerlistenD15s
Perlisten R212s: bit.ly/PerlistenR212s
Perlisten R210s: bit.ly/PerlistenR210s
👉 Perlisten R18s: bit.ly/PerlistenR18s
Arendal 1723 1S Sub: bit.ly/Arendal17231Ssub
Recommended AV Separates
Trinnov Altitude 32: bit.ly/TrinnovAltitude32
Trinnov Altitude 16: bit.ly/TrinnovAltitude16
Trinnov Amplitude 16: bit.ly/TrinnovAmplitude16
Trinnov Amplitude 8: bit.ly/TrinnovAmplitude8
Anthem AVM 70: bit.ly/AnthemAVM70pre
Anthem AVM 90: bit.ly/AnthemAVM90
Anthem MCA 323 Gen 2: bit.ly/AnthemMCA325
Anthem MCA 525 Gen 2: bit.ly/AnthemMCA525
Recommended AV Receivers:
Denon AVR-A1H: bit.ly/DenonAH1
Denon AVR-X6800H: bit.ly/DenonAVR6800h
Denon AVR-X3800H 9.2CH AV Receiver: bit.ly/DenonX3800h
Marantz Cinema 50: bit.ly/MarantzCinema50
Onkyo TX-RZ50 ($1,599): bit.ly/OnkyoTXZ50
Yamaha RX-A2A: audioadvice.io/3ppWFg9
Sony STR-AZ5000ES: bit.ly/SonySTRAZ5000ES
Sony STR-AZ7000ES: bit.ly/SonySTRAZ7000ES
Anthem MRX1140: bit.ly/AnthemMRX1140
Anthem AVM 90 15.4CH Processor: bit.ly/AnthemAVM90
Monolith M8250x 8CH Amp: bit.ly/8CHamp
NAD M23: bit.ly/NADm23amp
Recommended Powered Speakers:
Kanto YU6: bit.ly/KantoYU6speakers
Kanto TUK: bit.ly/KantoTUK
Kanto Sub8: bit.ly/KantoSub8
Recommended Center Channels:
SVS Prime Center: bit.ly/SVSPrimecenter
Paradigm Premier 500C: bit.ly/Paradigm500C
Revel C208: bit.ly/RevelC208
Recommended Speakers:
👉 SVS Ultra Evolution Pinnacle Tower: bit.ly/SVSUltraEvolutionPinnacle
SVS Prime 5.1 Speaker / Sub System: audioadvice.io/3JZJOt5
JBL HDI-3800: bit.ly/JBLHDI3800sale
Polk R700 Tower Speakers: audioadvice.io/3C0TK2B
Heco Aurora 1000 Tower Speakers: bit.ly/Aurora1000
Monolith Encore T6: bit.ly/EncoreT6
Klipsch RP-8000F II Tower Speakers: audioadvice.io/3445l4A
Arendal 1723S Tower Speakers: bit.ly/Arendal1723s
Focal Aria K2 936: bit.ly/3zVAxi5
Focal Kanta No2: bit.ly/Focalkantano2
👉 SVS Ultra Evolution Bookshelf: bit.ly/SVSUltraEvolutionbooks...
SVS Prime Elevation Surround: audioadvice.io/35aZCdR
MartinLogan Motion XT F100: bit.ly/MartinLoganF100
MartinLogan Motion XT F200: bit.ly/MartinLoganF200
MartinLogan Motion F10: bit.ly/MartinLoganF10
MartinLogan Motion XT B100: bit.ly/MartinLoganB100
Perlisten S7t Limited Edition: bit.ly/PerlistenS7tLE
Perlisten S7t: bit.ly/PerlistenS7towers
Perlisten R7t: bit.ly/PerlistenR7t
Perlisten R5t: bit.ly/PerlistenR5t
Perlisten S3ic: bit.ly/PerlistenS3ic
Perlisten R3ic: bit.ly/PerlistenR3ic
Recommended Headphones:
JBL Tour One M2: bit.ly/JBLTourOneM2-headphones
👉 Focal Bathys: bit.ly/FocalBathyswireless
Focal Celestee: bit.ly/Focalcelestee
Mark Levinson 5909: bit.ly/MarkLevinson5909
Sony WF-1000XM3: bit.ly/SonyIEMs
Audioholics Recommended Cables:
250ft CL2 12AWG Speaker Cable: amzn.to/2vwS9QH
50ft 10AWG Speaker Cable: amzn.to/3DeMTT5
Locking Banana Plugs: amzn.to/2ZQt15x
9ft 4K HDR HDMI Cables: amzn.to/2WiIXeD
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I'm a member of a certain high end speaker group on facebook & the photos people post of their HT set ups blows my mind. Most of them have over $150k in speakers & AV equipment shoved into a normal type family lounge with no sound treatments, speakers having to be placed badly around furniture/plants, misshapen open plan architecture, right up against walls etc etc. If I had 150k to drop on my HT I'd rather spend half of that getting a space for my HT sorted properly, rather than just shove high end gear into a bad space.
absolutely this!
Or, at least one quarter of such a huge budget. 🤓
Part of the urge to upgrade is because it is a HOBBY. Buying the newest shiny gadget is a joy in itself. If it was just about the sound, really the differences between top quality components are small.
Thanks for this excellent video! Here is my home cinema story: I build my house in 2006. Looking at the plans I realized that my living room will never have good accoustic properties: too much glass, granite flooring and due to it's shape an accoustic lense. So I bought some warm sounding speakers for background music and nothing more. The home cinema equipment moved into my basement. A 35m² circular room with cotton plaster walls, wodden floor, a curved DVD rack at the back, heavy curtains spanning 180° (minus the DVD rack) concealing some doors. No windows, but a ventilation system. The seats are placed about 1/3 of the diameter from the back. Four identical and perfectly aligned 30 year old speakers by T+A plus a Velodyne sub and some electronics by Pioneer was all I needed for really nice home cinema sound. In 2020 - just before Corona hit - I upgraded to 4.1.4 and a Trinnov Altitude 16/Amplitude 8 still keeping my good old T+A TB160 speakers. The result is all I ever dreamed of.
i think we all learn the hard way....its the room not the equipment
Really enjoy your program because I admire how you not only measure some gear but most importantly listen to gear. My friend's room has tons of bookshelves with lots of various books. It looks nice and works well.
Thanks, Gene, for again reinforcing your consistent message of working on your listing and viewing environment one of the most effective methods to improve your listening and viewing experience. I started with a living room system, then moved to a family room and now, I have a dedicated room. The funny thing is that I still am using some gear that is now pushing 20 years old (my B&W CDM NT series speakers and a 20-year-old Hsu sub for example) and it is sounding better and better as I pay more attention to the room acoustics. Moving the speakers out from the wall, experimenting with toe-in, calibrations with REW (I'm in the camp of less EQ is more), assembling eight DYI sound-absorbing panels and placing them in at the first reflection points and, lastly, getting two additional subs (for three total) have paid off greatly. The center sound stage, detail, and bass response are like I have never heard before with these 20-year-old speakers. I know not everyone is as lucky as we are to have dedicated rooms, but like most, I had to wait several years for my situation to change and get my room. Thanks again and congratulations on 25 years of Audioholics!
I really love your channel. I will gladly watch an hour of video where you'll go in-depth with technical speak about sound and be completely lost yet come away with a decent understanding because of your way of explaining. This particular video is a no nonsense explanation that is easy to understand. I know next to nothing but am the only member of my family that even attempts to improve and enjoy the nuance of home theater! Thank you for continuing to put out this great content!
Great video Gene. Dont have a dedicated room but made me think about positioning speakers where i have symmetry with the walls.
This is a fantastic video. The advice you offer is very helpful. More so, a consultation with you would be money well spent.
When setting up my dedicated room I applied the same philosophy as buying a house 'location, location, location'. I ran Ypao and it came back with 'weird' results' so I went the manual setup and it made a HUGE difference. The only upgrade I did was get a better center channel since a LOT of the sound (dialogue) comes from that bad boy. Great video Gene!
More solid info as always, and I'm glad to see NASA has come out with a baby burping shirt. Making Dad Duties fashionable!
If you can’t have a dedicated theater room, just watch movies and relax.
Good advice, but a 7.2.4 HT with a 77" OLED is nice too.
This is me. I've never had a house that had a dedicated music or HT room. With three kids, it just wasn't practical.
@@toddlee2571 I finally got my theater when I retired and it was well worth the wait.
I managed to setup a 5.1.4 system in our 14’x18’ den. We love it.
@@rafacq Thats what matters. Mine is in a 12x20 room, nothing really "professional" but putting it together was at least half the fun
Gene thanks for the video. Good advice for consumers. I agree with the room, seating and equipment setup and the dual subs. I added one sub and it sounded better. Then I added a second and it was excellent. I have a dedicated listening room and it’s setup for my seat since I do almost all the listening.
Always appreciate your input. I have a family room open to the kitchen that is challenging, but upgraded to a Pioneer receiver with Dirac and made a difference.
I have to say, I love topics like this and how you've embraced the KZhead sphere. The channel has definitely matured over the years.
The room , if you can't build a dedicated room separate from the house. ( seen done twice). Treat the room. I think it was Cadillac that said " luxury starts under the hood "
I always appreciate you putting things in layman's terms. Good show as always. I am a dedicated stereo guy and still have a Denon 3806 with cables I purchased from Blue Jean Cables and old JBL speakers with a center channel and always go to high-end stereo stores to listen to the latest equipment... needless to say I still haven't pulled the trigger.
I was shopping for a new turntable for our family room. This video will make me push off that purchase until I move my dedicated listening area from the second story to a better space in the basement. Thanks!
Thanks for Very important subject you explained I have a doubt, your chanel ever done a video about arcam AVR or pre pro we are so interested to know about arcam products sound signature and performance/room eq capabilities...etc
The family room is our Home Theater room, 16'x13'x8', left side open to main entry' restroom halway and kitchen. The open wall is close to the feont wall so getting good frequency response from my subs, LCRs is challenging. MLP is 22 inches from the back wall. I convinced my wife to add a few GIK acoustic panels (Absorption and diffusion) to treat first refelction points. The bqck wall is treated with a thick drape and absorption panels. I was able to get an RT60- Decay of 300ms-400ms. My system 5.3.2 ( RSL CG25/CG3/RSL Speedwoofer 10S/SVS Ultra Center).I can proudly say that my system sounds great. The key to good gound, seat to seat consistency is good speaker placement and a little bit of room treatment.
THANK YOU! Re subs, I have a pair of PearlAcoustics Sibelius single driver Voight tube speakers and love them for their coherence, clarity and soundstage (2 channel vinyl driven audio only system). Tried to add a REL T9 sub, but in my square room with diagonal set-up, I could not get the sub to work. It destroyed the coherence of the sound with time delays. Did the sub crawl, but no placement provided improvements over the speakers alone. I am also rather bass averse, so don't need window rattling bass thuds, find that vulgar. So consider that no sub can be better in some situations for some listeners. Re equipment, I consider upgrading from an EAT eglow petite to something with more detail and wider soundstage. Also wonder about my VPI super prime scout with SoundSmith Zephyr MIMC* cart. What is the bottle neck here? Rest is PL EVO300 pre, Pass XA25.
We get it dude you’re shredded af with that thumbnail
110% agree with the three Ss of audio (it’s all about the sound “space, space and space”). Point in case, I built a theater room in my basement. Everything in that room (drywall to lamps) were all chosen based on sound properties. I use the space to audition stereos I’m selling… everything sounds good in that room! I’ve put a crappy 1990s sound design faux stack in there once, and it sounded acceptable! Anything of moderate or above quality sounds really good in the space.
So true, thank you!
This is why I watch your channel instead of just audiophile channels. Good information that works for both audioholics and audiophiles.
This isn't an audiiphile channel?
@@musicman8270 I thought I pointed out that it is both.
What is a decent connection for in wall speaker cables. Im in the middle of remodeling living room. And want all cables in the wall. Thanks in advance
Amazing and informative
Hey Gene! I recognise what you said about the base in the rear wall being a very bass heavy spot. My setup is in a near rectangular room, whereas the dining area is behind the main listening position. And whenever we're eating while watching something on the sound system, it's so bass heavy! While in the main listening position, I would like more bass😅. But if I crank up the bass anymore, I fear the neighbours would evict me 🤣 Is there any way of trapping the bass, avoiding it to travel and being amplified at the rear wall?
My main room is my main cinema room. I live alone. So all OK 👍 but issue for me to do what you said about the walls. I can only really have the set up in a certain way. I don't want to be facing the other wall as where the door is, is where my rack has to go (for avr etc) ..can't put it in front of door. All difficult to describe. But my main right is almost touching the back wall and the right wall, my left main has no left wall there but against back wall like the right. Surround left has no wall but I put a room divider behind it as the right surround has the wall is directly behind it. My room is not huge and as I have my 65 inch tv ..both tv and sofa are touching the wall..in other words as far back as they can go. I don't want to be any closer than I am. In fact wondering if I should have went with a 55 inch. All in all I knew that as some speakers were basically backed up against a wall abd others aren't this is not the ideal situation for it to sound right. BTW I am a bit excited as I had the Sony str dn1080 which only has the 2 atmos. I hooked up another 2 atmos and screwed them to the ceiling as I am waiting on a new pioneer elite one.. got the wires just hanging waiting. Thought was maybe coming today..it's starting to look like it will be tomorrow. ..it's painful as I am dying to set it up and hear it. Filled with loads of options it is going to be a lot more confusing :)...thanks for tips.. Btw I hope you don't mind an observation. Is it OK to put tv up so high as you have? I always thought tv should be eye level? I ask as I am wondering if i should be raising mines.
Another great video. Quick question small listening room equal small soundstage, smaller listening experience? my room is 14x8 ft
It can be but you need to scale the space accordingly to maximize the performance. Shoot for a higher RT60 decay time between 500-700ms instead of 300-500ms in a larger room. In other words, don't over treat the acoustics of the room with absorption. Choose speakers that give you wide dynamic range but good cohesion sitting at closer distances (6-7ft away). A concentric speaker like a Kef of Mofi or Perlisten would work well in this space.
I have heard a 7.1 system in a bedroom 12x12 ft sound shockingly good with proper treatment. I don't know how to explain but the space sounded bigger.
Thanks Gene, really cool and IMHO SPOT ON 🤠 And .... I reckon there may be cases where I need to buy equipment to fix a problem. The plate amps in my subwoofer breaks like crazy, these are really good subs with less than optimal amp stability. So I go out and buy outboard pro Labgruppen DP3000 amps tro drive the subwoofers. There is no DSP in those amps but I have Trinnov that can do eq all the way down to 10Hz .... I reckon in this case some new gear makes win-win and fixes a problem 🙂 There is 4 subwoofers so replacing them is insanely costly, but Labgruppen DP3000 seem to be high quality class d amp that should get the job done 😎 I second that, 2 subwoofers is better, but 4 subwoofers is WAY WAY BETTER, if you tried 4 subs, there is. no going back 🤩
I think your approach is logical. When a patient goes to a docter with a new issue ,it probably makes more sense to look at what their current lifestyle includes , along with their current medications, before adding yet another medication to the mix. It might even be appropriate to offer a drug holiday.
I concur, well said!!
I see so much gear being sold where the photos show poor speaker positioning, no acoustic treatments or DSP compensation. Makes you wonder, would they be for sale if the owner actually heard what they’re capable of? They’re on a non stop merry go round because no matter what they buy it wont improve anything because they’ll never actually hear what they bought until they address the room. The room / speaker synergy is the most important to me now followed by DSP , in my case Room Perfect.
Awesome. I would love to improve the acoustics of my room. It just it is a bit hard in our country to get decent acoustics materials where you know the NRC of each piece. Also the WAF also plays a huge role 😂😂and
This is true to a point, i just did a switch from a SMSL D300 dac and Bluesound node to a eversolo dac and ifi zen streamer, it sounded like a totaly new system. And all this going in my Cinema 60 pure output. Was a big diffrence. ( Only for stereo music no movie setup with the change)
Gene you are the man and because you are the man you don't need to copy other youtube people with the negative looking thumbnails on your videos.
This is really good advice. Hard sometimes to achieve when you have to deal with WAF or GAF. The room must be a dedicated space. For me that isn’t an issue, but everyone is not fortunate. Your advice is on point. It’s sad people think money thrown at equipment will fix it all. It won’t. Press on sir!
I've got a sitting room setup and my couch is against the wall. And I can't pull it away from the wall. Is there anything I can do with a subwoofer or the bass management in the amp that would help. Thank you
Thanks this needed to be said. I'm wright now going threw all my old gear. I do have to get some new cables and wire maybe. My point is maybe I can mix it up or move this speaker to the other room. Maybe you and a friend can swap equipment to save money.
Love the blankets 🖖
I have a very large listening room (doubles as a family room) and what bit me the worst was I had some Polk Audio LSIM tower speakers and there was no way they were going to work at reference volume in a room that big. I finally figured out that no speaker that can be shipped by UPS would work so I bought some SVS Ultra Towers and they easily filled the room with sound. So I guess my speaker debacle is opposite of the point you are making in the video but I had also spent a bunch of $$$ on receivers and until I replaced the speakers, I had no chance to fix the sound for good. Later I did add a separate amp that also made a huge difference. So to your point, I was spending money on the wrong equipment instead of where I needed to spend it which was on the speakers.
Hi gene. Thanks good movie, what do you call naar field in the example you gave?
And what about the dac in the denon 3800h? How good is that compared to say an anthom receiver? Or an eversolo dmp a6?
Hey Gene what are those White Speakers you have in your room with the ribbon tweeter in the middle where are you doing your live streams from?
RBH Sound SFTR/AX active speakers. Absolutely amazing and I will be doing a review. They replaced my Revel F328be as a significant upgrade, especially in the bass department.
What type of connections to you have on your wall outlets at your front wall ?
Thanks for sharing Gene! I need to get some subs that can get down below 30hz. Unfortunately, my problem is getting low enough frequencies while watching movies. The subs I do have, do the job for what they are designed for... MUSIC. However, a quick fix is within reach. I am going the cheap way since I do not need anything too extravagant due to my minimal needs. Currently looking at the OSD Trevoce 15" Triple Driver Active Subwoofer 1600W, Native EQ 15Hz Bass Response. I think I'll get a couple of these. If these work out well enough, I may get a couple more down the road.😁
You'd be better off with two Rythmik E15HP2s
@@Mishael_Agyei-Boamah But, I can't get 2 Rythmik E15HP2s for $499 US each. If I could I would.
@@dungysphincter7974 lol just get a pair of RSL Speedwoofer 10S MK2 when they get back in stock... they're a limited commodity so you always have to be refreshing their website on when they get stock
Thank you for this informative video. I have been trying to dive into the world of acoustic panels for some time. I even went into a Hi Fi shop that sold 100K+ systems and asked for help figuring out what I needed to treat my room. They turned the question back on me by asking me what I wanted to do and what problem I was trying to fix. Articles, KZhead video, marketing guides seem to offer everything except a direct response to how I would go about figuring out what I actually need. Instead, the industry standard seems to be, "throw a bunch of #$%^ against the wall and see what works." Using audio tools can give us a good picture of what our room is doing but they do not offer the average Joe like me guidance on where I need to put what. First reflections is a good start. Do I treat it with diffusion, absorption, what frequency should I target, what about ceiling and floor bounce, what impact does furniture have on the issues, or solutions, to my problem. I also feel there is a lot of snake oil the follows along with this topic. This may be worth a series of videos to demystify the witchcraft of room treatments. Honestly, I find the topic very intimidating.
Here's a simple "getting started" trick... Sit in your intended listening position. Clap your hands together once. Listen for what happens after the clap ... echoes, sustain, vibrations, etc. If the room is basically quiet... it's probably okay for most setups. If not, repeat the test, taking note of where the after-sounds come from. Don't start with ludicrously priced audio panels... that's a sure way to waste a ton of money and get a really ugly room. Start with the stuff you've already got and try rearranging the furniture to solve some of the problems... Furniture, carpets, drapes, etc. soften a room to reduce reflections. Bookshelves, media stands, knickknack displays etc. tend to break up echoes. Yes it's mysterious and the explanations are basically useless... but a little bit of experimentation can likely get you an enjoyable result.
@@Douglas_Blake_579 Thank you, Douglas. That is probably the most practical and low-tech advice I have received. Very few people discuss the impacts or importance of furniture.
@@jamesmorse6486 Take a look at some of the "audiophile" room plans... Simple question: What furniture?
Is Sonitus ever going to get items back in stock or is Grimanni closing up shop?
I think allot of us forget or dismiss, the premise of upgrading the architecture. Holding preconceived notions that moving is off the table. Forgetting all about how much wives love to house shop ha ha
Do you have a link in proper settings for the marantz sr-6014
I'm still rocking a Yamaha AVR from 2008, even though it doesn't support 4k I'm still happy with it. I have changed speakers many times though. Anyone know of a good pair of compact subs to use with Focal Aria 926's for 2ch music?
I have a Sony Dolby Pro Logic receiver that I bought back in 1995. I get a lot of distortion at high volume, so I upgraded my speaker cables with some MIT cables. They were about $10,000, but I’m not really hearing any improvements on my Radio Shack - Realistic 3-way speakers. Is something wrong?
I want to upgrade to a different desktop speaker amp because I have the Fosi ZA3 and when I turn it on or switch my Topping A70pro to pre amp I hear a click or pop in my Emovitva Xb2's. I don't know if a power amp would fix that problem or if mono blocks would.
I taught acoustics in the early 70s, and was a member of the Boston Audio Society. I concur with everything you say. The laws of physics haven't changed in the last 50 years. Products certainly have.
I'm in a multi use room, scraping the surface of how little can be done, and how much. I use Klotz wires, no improving on those, or Mogami, Canare, Belden, van Damme or similar. This is true regardless your budget and what the sales pitch of the day is. Though there are some things that will make a difference. Speaker radiation pattern. A dipole will significantly reduce sidewall reflections. A cardioid will significantly reduce any problem caused by front wall reflections. Horns tend to have narrower dispersion patterns than traditional boxes too. All these will push the balance towards more direct and less reflected sound. Any speaker with a constant directivity will provide a better balance between direct and reflected sound, and work better with EQ. These issues should be top of your list when buying equipment for a difficult (reflective) room. DSP room correction may not be able to solve all your problems, but boy can it make a surprisingly positive difference (best results with single listening position, though). I've heard great hifi in "impossible" rooms. It is never about the fancy High End kit, though.
I have an issue with amp hum. It is driving me nuts. I have Golden Ear Triton 1s, I also have one of their smaller subs. I have tried all of the advice that I could find regarding isolation of the power. I have even had the power section changed in the separate sub. My integrated amp is the Line Magnetic LN-508. I have switched polarity, tried line isolators nothing has worked and it is making me nutz. Any advice?
You are the best dude 👍😉
Probably the majority of us try and watch movies in a space we’re forced to use instead the the luxury of a dedicated space.I have the exception to the normal “Florida home” layout. Wife wants to watch movies, so acoustics treatment matches wall and ceiling colors. Muti-sub, upgrading speakers and video display. Read the free CEDIA documents about setting up audio and video, then talk to people that can help you learn from there.
Late to the party but I'll put in my 2 coppers. As much as one of the fun parts of this is buying new gear, the other fun part is playing with "zero dollar mods" like he mentions in the video (speaker placement, seating placement, etc.) as well as treatments. I've had a lot of fun experimenting with room treatments and speaker/seating placements and its really paid off in the listening experience. A buddy of mine who has similar brand preferences but tends to go with higher priced gear within the brands comments about how nice the system sounds. I think he's secretly jealous his wife wont let him have a dedicated room ;) That being said, its not stopping me from exploring speakers that have better measurements or soldering together a power amp with a different topography to see how it sounds. :) I've kept the itch to upgrade my speakers at bay for a while, but I'm losing the discipline not to pull the trigger lol.
I upgraded my receiver for HDMI reasons - and got a beefier amp to boot! But my room is by far my biggest problem. It has some treatments but it was just laid out terribly.
Begin with speakers then the amp that suit your needs, i use b&w 702 s2 and Hegel h390 thats all i need,
There's a lot of us who can't do dedicated listening/home theatre rooms for various reasons and have to make do with general purpose open rooms. Advice to optimise our situation would be nice eg carpets, furniture, curtains, room correction etc. At the end of the day I'm okay with my set up regardless though I know it could sound better if...
How do you know where to place audio panels
In another forum I saw someone who got AVM90 and asked a question that was clear they did not even run ARC or knew the amazing features that processor has and why to chose it. That might be same person. I feel bad, I want to come and help them. They really should have had a dealer help them, even if they buy it online, it's like $7k+ processor.
As someone with high end gear but an "open" style of living area I could find very little help on utube in how to make the best of this type of space. Obviously alot of variables but a video on what can actually done would be great. I move about in the space alot as it has multi purpose, kitchen etc. A video on what type/placement/number of speakers for listening like that would also be great.
You can actually use a non ported subwoofer as room treatment. behind the listener pointing towards the speaker one in the middle ideally three feet off the floor tilt it down a bit unrestricted to the speakers. Also you can use paintings as room treatment folded up felt blanket behind ideally the long type of painting that can go to the floor. Also rubber plants are good make sure it's quite bushy and stands about two inches below the tweeter the thick springy leaves can absorb quite a lot of and diffuse frequencies, place them right next to the speakers about a foot away on either side you can put them in the corners as well. Just put your sub out of phase and adjust the frequency and intensity the bass coming towards it will be cancelled out from the subwoofer this is quite commonly used in studios
That will mess up the bass in the first row, which is the most important location for sound in many multi row seated theater rooms.
What brand are those corner traps up front ? I’ve been in the process of treating my room for a while now and really like the look of those
Sonitus
@@jamiet74thank you
Until you talked about the sliding door, I thought you were talking about my family room (next to kitchen) home theater :p.
Are there good spaces online to consult with people on this sort of thing? I just bought my first house and am planning the home theater space in it, which will be in the basement. I have so many design considerations to keep in mind for it.
Yeah, the guy in this video, Gene. Go-to his website and there should be a pop up with an offer for consultation.
@@williamkramer9069walked right into that one! $200/h is quite steep, but it's not like the actual construction of the space will be cheap, either. I already have most of the media equipment, at least (for now).
Yeah Gene's website
Have not fallen into the pit, but I do have my movie room opening up into the kitchen. This is the way it is, and in one way it's great. I bought Arendal speakers..... but not as an upgrade, but that's the speakers that I bought. I really like the result. So..... open space.... but.... believe it or not speakers are correctly positioned and listening position is in the good place. I only have LCR right now, but I'm working on the other ones. They are bought but not installed. Anyway. Acoustic treatments are on the table, but I will try to make them be something that also looks good and that can be achieved.
ROFL ... "Mother in law seat" ... good one. Yeah... please do stop wasting money on stuff that won't make any difference. Cables and gadgets aren't going to fix anything, until you have the room right. The best advice I ever got was to: _"do all the free stuff first"_ Try rearranging furniture, fine tuning your speaker positions, moving your listening position etc. before spending more money. AND, in particular, be ready to break some of the "audiophile rules" to get what you want. My listening situation is far from ideal. I had some interesting decisions to make in order to set up a proper sweet spot in a living room. I ended up on the long wall, with the stereo and TV positioned on an 8 foot wall with a hallway on one side and the dining room on the other. The backs of my speakers are about 8 inches off the short wall. My couch is 12 feet away on the opposite wall which is about 20 feet long. Listening across the short dimension (rather than the customary long dimension) of the room helped tame side reflections and improved the direct path from the speakers. What I did for room treatments was to decorate the walls with canvas on frame paintings and PE padded foam wallpapers which are readily available from online vendors. I put down wall to wall carpeting and used heavy curtains on the windows. The room is now echo free but still lively enough to load up plenty of bass... without subwoofers. Walking into the room, it doesn't look like a recording studio... it looks like a normal living room. My friends call this "Stealth Acoustics" and while it's not "recording studio quality" it does a nice enough job. The sound quality is excellent. Room testing with REW shows no strong dips or resonances, the stereo image is dead center and the soundstage is wider than the speakers. Don't break your bank ... break the rules. You might be surprised.
Agree, room and setup are the often the biggest dials, but that does not mean changes to components etc. cant be very meaningful IMO. Also in my experience some rooms/setups just sound great, even when they are not supposed to (asymmetry/no room treatment). That said, I have made a deal with myself, not to make any upgrades or new purchases (hard I love buying and selling gear 😂) before really nailing setup and room treatment. Partly because I have the privilege of a dedicated room, but also because it actually does not sound very good without a lot of TLC.
For me it’s always speakers first, room and position second, speaker calibration third …. amp and dac low on that list.
I would even say room and setup first and speakers a close second. Cheers
Gene you could show my theater for the shame part next time :) no sound panels in a large open concepts room with probably $30k-ish worth of stuff with high end LCR speakers, 2 high end subs in over built for the space 7.2.4 setup with 8 channels all in ceiling lol. It's not something more gear or better subs can fix, even AVM90 would not change experience this setup. Sound treatment is the only way to get more and I am at a dead-lock with chief design officer at home. Even I am like "soooo what could a Trinnov do for me with calibration?" or "should I get an 8 ch amp, just in case" and "let's run dual 20amp circuits" that last one I actually did.
I also use canvas paintings stuffed with acoustic foam and put these between my manufactured acoustic panels - it brightens things up a little
I did that too. Oil canvas art paintings that a 2" deep foam 1ft sq panels fit perfectly (with minor trim). No need to buy a fancy acoustic panel.
@@SgtMjr . Sorry for being dumb. So it works pretty good? I understand it's not a bass trap.
. Bean bag chairs are now filled with memory foam chunks. Might make a better looking, dual use bass trap if stacked. I'm gonna' try it.
@@TriAmpHiFi Correct not a bass trap. Oil on canvas paintings will work as diffusor panels as is but the addition of acoustic foam behind the canvas enhances the effect.
@@SgtMjr . Thank-you.
Room accoustics are huge and account for most of that bad sound. Placement of seating is very noticeable for sound changes. My living room is bad for acoustics, vaulted ceiling, and windows on both sides, and it opens to the kitchen. You step one foot into the kitchen, and it sounds like trash . You take one step left, and the sound amplifys.
As far as room Acoustics go how would you treat a room without going into different kinds of rooms layouts, what would be a good start especially if you have no idea what your doing, should I just put up some sound acoustic panel on each side of the wall a video on this would be helpful but not such a technical video for the people like me lol
My rows are opposite of yours-- 3 in front, 4 in back. Also I have a doorway on the wall about 1.5 ft in front of my right speaker. Compromise is inevitable, which is also terrific marriage advice 😂
Hi Gene give your views on arcam 41…. recently bought one.. going through some views, I developed guilt whether I made a mistake… not going to be user friendly stuff… your views might give ma some consolation..please..!
Narrow directivity speakers (horns) are great for bad/asymmetrical room acoustics.
“Mother in law seats” 😂
my mother-in-law seat has an ejector spring... she is always curious as to why I always tell her to sit in the same place. LOL!!!
Mother in laws r like Vampires. Don't invite them in 2 your home. Eat plenty of garlic. And definitely don't do eny d.i.y work 4 them. 😂😂😂 You have been warned
And if for some reason there is just no way of fixing a room, build a killer desktop system you can at least get some excellent music sessions at. I could watch TV without much more than a sound bar, but the music has to be right. First consideration should be to forecast the size of the actual audience long term. How many actual audiophiles in the house? So many systems are built for audiences that will never attend. While my wife really appreciated good music, it became less important to her as time went on. She could take it or leave it. Once the kids became teens, they had much better things to do than movie night with the folks. This had me being the only one in the house that really pursued audio as a necessity of life. This allowed me to build some out of the way, super near field systems that could still fit two people if need be, and set up in more ideally shaped rooms that could be treated with not much more than ample furnishings and carpet. I also had a great garage system. These systems are easier to optimize and much less expensive to implement and upgrade and are able to be out of everyone else's way, too. About the only drawback is having to choose speakers that work at near field duty. Life is too short to fight acoustically crappy rooms.
I think I hit the limit of my small room for music reproduction. 14×16 10 ft. Ceiling. I upgraded my speakers from usd3600 to usd8800 dollars speakers and there was a small improvement. That tells me my room with minimal room acoustic and to the right 2 windows it's the culprit. Thks a lot for you help and all that you do.
The cost of the speakers in that range is truly, utterly, irrelevant. 3300 is a good amount and can get you crappy speakers or insanely good speakers... The cost means nothing the model and it's measurements is what matters.
I disagree insanely good speakers for 3k. No good yes. Irrelevant no again. Again my opinion. ROOM ITS NO1 FACTOR and then speakers are no2. Everything else it's Everything else.
@@Skyshakerrrr you're just objectively wrong that great speakers don't exist at and BELOW 3k. Above that price range you're already starting to get into higher markup and prices based on name brand and aesthetics and not inherent quality or performance or build cost, but instead they have increasingly higher markup and profit margin and marketing bs. This is not universally true across the board but certainly represents the overall trend. Few 5k speakers are worth it, especially if you're talking about a basic design - like a bookshelf or thin tower with some 6.5" woofers. If the design format and class of speaker is different, maybe you've got something there, but there is only so much you can do within a given format, and the raw driver cost only goes so high. There's no room to improve a 2 way 6.5" based speaker past a certain point. DIY would teach you this, as you can spec out the best performing drivers available on the market and see that even the higher priced ones (before you start spending money that doesn't actually increase performance) can't possibly even cost you more than a few hundred bucks, and often significantly less - depending on size. So show me the 3.3k or 8.8k speaker you're referring to. If it's large or unique in it's driver arrangement etc. maybe there's a justification and a real performance advantage. If it's just another speaker with a tweeter and a couple small drivers, then I regret to inform you the driver arrangement and format itself is the limiting factor and you're paying for brand name and aesthetics and "build quality", but there is no economic force preventing someone from having top level drivers and crossover and adequate cabinet build to produce 99% of the maximum possible performance in the typical size/format bookshelf or small tower speaker for 3300 bucks. Nothing that can be done for 5k or 8k that can't be done for 3k. You're dealing purely in markup and design CHOICES at that point, not what can be built for the money. How are we evaluating their quality? Objective metrics, or the subjective impressions of audiophile reviewers and yourself? There is no consistent trend towards better objective measurements going from 3k to 8k. What is better will vary completely from model to model and if you showed me a half dozen from each price category, it would be a flip of a coin to say which is objectively better between any 2, I guarantee you, that is objective reality. And boy you would really flip a lid talking to DIY guys... Virtually any speaker you could name could be matched or beaten in performance for less than half the cost, very often 1/4 the cost. I don't think people understand how little money is actually spent building speakers compared to what they retail for. If you're spending more than a few grand on speakers, they should not look like typical bookshelf or tower speakers, because that format is limiting and the performance has absolutely peaked. You should be getting unique designs with larger woofers and different kinds of tweeters/drivers. I can build a 2 way with a 15" pro woofer and an exceptionally good medium format horn and compression driver that will stomp ANY speaker that utilizes 1 or 2 small woofers and a 1" dome tweeter, for 2-3 grand for the pair, using bi-amping and DSP to get the exact response you want, and having way more dynamic output capability. If you prefer a waveguide and 2 12" or 10" woofers in an mtm you could do that. If you prefer a top tier AMT and 4 8" drivers in a 2.5 way you could do that as well. Literally you name it. Speakers over 5k are very rarely worth it unless they're doing something unique, like KEF or Mofi, genelec, anyone with a unique driver design or arrangement, or active electronics. If you show me another boring standard speaker with a dome tweeter and a couple/few small drivers in a box and it cost over 3-5k, I'll just tell you you got ripped off, it's nothing special, and the retail markup is in the multiple hundreds of % vs the build/design cost. If I didn't want to do diy, I'd buy the new Mofi 888. That's a unique speaker you can't exactly build yourself that's actually objectively awesome, for 5k. And if you use a sub and/or aren't concerned with high bass output and low extension below 40-50hz, you could just get the sourcepoint 8s or 10s for 2-3k. There's many other great speakers in the 3k range too depending on what you're after. If you spend more than that and aren't using DSP equalization, you're most definitely doing it wrong, since almost no system should not employ DSP eq. Never buy a speaker merely for frequency response curve preference, that can be fixed/tailored to suit any taste. Only thing it can't fix is dispersion characteristics, resonances, and maximum output/compression/distortion.
@@Artcore103 I guess it's you opinion a long opinion dyi guy. I didn't learned anything from you rant.just that you have a strong opinion,so do I. Who cares what you think truly not me who cares what I think,it's just an exchange this thing you said will not help me in any meaningful way. You build, I buy. Think about it for a minute. If you do reply make it shorter thks in advance.
Well. Choice of cable material I found matters. Copper is better than silver. But cable thickness doesn't play a role since the cable from the speaker binding post to the driver is very thin. Having speakers away from a wall does nothing, as is angling them to the listening position. The driver is shaped like a cone or funnel, so why would angles matter.
Good video.
Smartest advice ever. I always thought my system needed all kinds of upgrades. I thought I was lacking bass and it didn’t sound as good as I knew it could. I moved my speakers 5 inches closer to the wall and the improvement in sound and low end was amazing. Five whole inches.
Without going into the layout of my room, I recently put a 5ft. tall pillow in the tightest corner of my room and swear it cleaned up some issues. It doesn't take much to make your room sound better. You don't need expensive acoustic treatments, do a little research and be creative.
There is a coat closet in my living room. Any time I want a bit of extra bass, all I have to do is open the door. Stuff like this is unavoidable.
I bought some new genelec speakers, and they solved all my problems. 😂
It's good that you a spreading this kind of message. Trying to improve your system with new equipment keeps you in a cycle of constant dissatisfaction and burns a lot of money (speaking from personal experience ...). Improve room acoustics if you can, choose speaker and listening positions carefully and get the equipment adequate for the job. Room EQ is helpful too but don't expect it to fix everything. Done.
My room acoustics aren’t bad. Everything I put in here sounds pretty damn good. It’s an old craftsman home with a low 8 foot high ceiling and plaster walls. I have wood floors but I put a big rug down that really helped. But otherwise it’s pretty good.
Your first anecdote was so familiar to me and I wonder how many other men struggle with the “fashion police” deciding what can and cannot be done due to aesthetic reasons? Add that to the restrictions imposed by the room/space itself and you wonder whether achieving a good result is within reach.
I don't want a listening space that looks like the inside of an anechoic chamber either. A listening room or space should be inviting and comfortable... and the typical audiophile's room is neither of those things.
@@Douglas_Blake_579 That’s reasonable, it needs to be a balance between performance and aesthetics without doubt. It is, after all, a home and a place of relaxation
@@michaelwilliams4086 Given that it's my living room, I definitely want my guests to feel comfortable and welcomed. I've never been fond of the "man cave" thing... music should be for the whole family.
This topic is 100% the reason why I am afraid to upgrade from my excellent sounding 2.1 system to a 5.1 or 7.1. system. I actually removed my center channel recently from my living room, because the timbre/tonality mismatch to my towers was very distracting and EQing it was causing audible distortion at higher volumes. I to have an asymmetrical listening space that opens up into the kitchen dining room area. Luckily, the missus is totally fine with heavy curtains and me strategically locating her bookshelves for diffusion, but I can just feel a sensation deep in my wallet that trying to get good surroundsound performance is going to be a never ending battle of fighting room asymmetry acoustics with cold hard cash.
I also have a 2.1 system in my own living room and it's definitely more than good enough. I am fortunate enough to also have a separate dedicated TV room with a nice 7.2.4 atmos setup. My man cave. The others in the house are content watching movies with the built in TV speakers. Go figure. At least I have my man cave all to myself, and can dial up the audio in living room when needed.
A good video would be how to make the best of a non-optimal room. While I wish I could have a dedicated room, right now I have to make the best of my basement family room, which is open to one side. Maybe one day I'll be able to build a dedicated room, but for now I need to make do.
More of a 2-channel music listening guy. Nonetheless, I have made more than my share of mistakes. The biggest one is purchasing a pair of speakers that were too large for my room and then pairing them with an amp that had poor damping to boot. Things ended up really bloated and boomy, changing the amps helped a fair amount but did not get me the sound I wanted. Wound up spending money on bass traps, spent copious amount of time positioning and adjusting the speaker's frequency response. Should have done that first before panic buying replacement amps. Learned the hard way, that you need to consider the amp, speaker and room as a whole. Parroting your advice. You just cannot get around the physics and acoustics that exist within your listening space and need to consider how it impacts your choice of components and speakers.
Any other seat other than the center seat are all MIL seats!!😉
If you’re able to get your equipment in an optimal space the difference can be shocking.
For the vast majority of people having a dedicated room for their systems just isn't possible. Especially if you live in an apartment, you only have so much space to work with. I don't want wall treatments all over my livingroom, but then again, I only buy new gear maybe every 10-15 years or so. I buy the best I can afford at the time and I'm very happy with the sound. No doubt, Gene would look at it and cringe, but I'm very happy with my 5.2 channel system. BTW Gene, could you do a review of a selection of the small amplifiers that are all over Amazon. I want to know if any of them are worth it to integrate one into my pc set up.
1st measure your room 2nd speaker placement third acoustic treatment Finally room correction 🥳
Indeed necessity is the mother of invention. If you're an audiophile, as I am, with modest resources, as I am, you learn to tweak and improvise ala McGyver. More fun and satisying too!
To generalise that one can’t get better sound in a bad room by improving the gear is false. It may not fix your what someone is unhappy with in their bad room but it can improve their sound.