The Computer Chronicles - Mac Update (1998)
2024 ж. 17 Мам.
34 075 Рет қаралды
Special thanks to archive.org for hosting these episodes. Downloads of all these episodes and more can be found at: archive.org/details/computerch...
Special thanks to archive.org for hosting these episodes. Downloads of all these episodes and more can be found at: archive.org/details/computerch...
This show is legendary. It documented every change, important breakthroughs, false starts, brief successes, dead-end techs and also the transformation of tech and society for two decades. Episodes of this show will be very valuable to historians.
Yeah, its crazy to think about how long some technologies took from the point of their inception to mass adoption.
This specific episode is documenting the day dead Apple becoming a 3T$ (2023) company.
Its currently 2023, and I still enjoy watching these.
How did I grow up in the 80s and 90s and not know about this show? Being a huge retro collector now, this is everything I need. So snappy and informative, but not sensationalized. Fan for life!
I really like the part talking about Apple company in 1998. The fact is that the clone market did not help Apple. They thought it would expand their market, But the bitter reality was that the clone markets sold high Margin computers without worrying about development, branding, … So, they actually sold cheapper great computers, which were great thanks to Mac OS and overall Macintosh brand and platform. But people in 1998 thought differently. Actually, shutting down clone makers was in my opinion easy and straightforward decision.
By this time, I was gaming online on my Performa 450 via 128kb ISDN connection. Such a great time, my first experience falling deep into the pit that is online gaming. I remember being so jealous on those lucky bastards on a 100 mb optical uplink
2:58 "it feels odd in the hand but it looks great" - Apple's motto
so true, and I am not an apple hater, I own an iPhone, iPad and Macbook Pro but anyone who thinks Apple hasn't always put form over function is simply lying to themselves.
For the company that often tries to take credit for inventing the mouse they really such at making mice.
You really need the hands of a toddler to properly use that godawful puck mouse.
That guy must have been scolded for that comment lol
@@cardbored_ They've made plenty of mistakes, but saying they *ALWAYS* put form over function is hilariously inaccurate. Usually they try and meld the two. It doesn't always work, but if they did what you're saying, they would've been out of business decades ago.
18min. James Staten and Ellen Hancock (She passed away last year). James saying "Apple will never recover", was a very common sentiment back then. A lot of people felt Jobs was 'too weird' and no way Apple could compete with Microsoft. I remember seeing the first iMac being released to the public at a special midnight showing. Seeing the massive crowds that waited at midnight to see this computer, it made me realize that not only was Apple coming back...but stronger than ever before.
PC magazine’s John C Dvorak was very loud with his Apple is doomed articles, looking to those in the present when Apple is more valuable than Microsoft, IBM and Intel combined is super funny.
@@dmora2309 In the 90s, I used to hate Dvorak with daggers in my eyes whenever I'd see his smug kisser in the PC magazine trades. I still remember people telling me that "Netscape is bigger than Apple! Netscape is the future!" Very few people today realize just how much of a death spiral Apple was in, in the 90s. Jobs return/rescue of Apple is the stuff of legend, and I was 'there' before and during Jobs return where I saw a major shift in the product lineup. However after Jobs died, I strangely am finding comfort in reading Dvorak asking basically the same questions he did in the 90s...except this time I agree with him. Under Tim Cook, Apple has become a bloated corporate nightmare.
actually, he's not wrong, that's true apple will never recover from PC Market, even until today mac os only had 20% PC Market Share. he was said that because in 1998, steve jobs was shutting down apple's mac clone business and only want to sold their Mac exclusively. In that period, Windows were dominating with 87% PC Market Share, so, doing Mac clone business was the most logical decision to increase the marketshare of Mac OS platform against Windows. in fact, Apple were gaining today status from other market strategies such as digital contents from iTunes, pocket devices from iPod, and mobile devices from iPhone and iPad,
@@JhanOjan The 20% you mentioned I think is only for USA, for the rest of the world it very likely is below 10%, but yes it seems impossible to take back a significant amount of PC, I mean Apple is in a very good position right now, only the iPhone is bigger than Microsoft, they have also other very lucrative business units, even the Mac with a very little slice of the market is taking a big chunk of the profits, meanwhile the most popular Windows computers are crappy and dirty cheap devices with almost not profit Apple sell to the high level where margins are bigger. Something funny is Apple appears is not worried for the PC market anymore, but I could say the same for Microsoft, I mean with Ballmer as CEO everything was around Windows, with Nadella it seems Windows still relevant but isn’t as important as used to be, the smartphone replaced the PC for a lot of people and the cloud is the next big thing, perhaps i am wrong but I feel this way.
@@JhanOjan I think Apple never had a big market share, not even in the 1980s during the Apple II heydays. So the idea to somehow steal a massive portion of the Wintel market was and is impossible. What Apple did was in fact smart: they pushed for other consumer products (music players, phones, TV boxes, wristwatches etc.). They succeeded with some and failed with others, but at least they tried everything they could. They played a different game and that paid off. Of course, in the process they acquired some 100 mil. Mac users, which was a very nice bonus.
...it's crazy to me that CC was around for *so goddamned much* of computing history, up to and including this.
Historians will mine these episodes to understand how stuff happened.
@@Nunavuter1If they are smart
This is priceless, I'd hoped Gary Kildall was alive then. Cool monitor indeed 😀
I recently saw an interview Stewart cheifet did with leo Laporte and he said gary flew up or drove his lambo to do the show every week- all for free. He never got paid to host the show but still did it for years and always gave a fair shot to all his competitors to show their products. What a great guy, but what a sad ending to his story 😢
@@JaredConnell He actually co-financed the show, his only condition was to co-host it too. Stewart had said that Gary was acatually his hero.
Mac OS 8.5 was a huge update. Honestly could've been called Mac OS 9. Also I like how during the Mac OS X demonstration at 8 minutes in, they have QuarkXPress up with a document about Carbon. QuarkXPress would infamously be the last major app to update to Carbon and it would be the biggest reason why InDesign took over the DTP industry.
True, this was the internet critical mass moment, multitasking, and simultaneously PowerPC. Computing suddenly looked modern.
0:20 I guess that Modem dial in sound is the sound most of us have in mind when going into the Internet in the mid + late nineties. And that dissappointment when it failed to connect :-)
3:03 feels odd on the hand but looks great, the only bad thing about the imac was that mouse
Over priced, lack of floppy drive, hard to repair, poor software availability, no upgrade path leading to e-waste.
I love the whimsical candy-like design of the Macs
We used them in my high school in the late 1990s and early 2000s.
@@infinitecanadian same. I used Apple computers in school from elementary school to high school.
@@ww21943 I remember the iMacs with their distinct shape.
Too bad they didn’t bring back some of this design again
i've somehow never seen that apple monitor... crazy
I was a young teen when all this was out and I never had one. I wanted one so badly! Lol
Wow. Can't believe it's been 20 years...
Ikr, from seeing them around in daycare now they are practically vintage antiques
True I bought my first iMac back in high school. I’m 38 now been using macs all my life.
Cant believe i havent bought any shares.
26 years now 😅
I nearly passed out at the price of the monitor alone 😨 As for the iMac it was gorgeous and I still want one! Love those freaking custom colors and transparent case
The price of the Apple monitor now is $5,000 and the stand is $1,000. Some things just don’t change at all lol
@SteelRodent translucent means semi-transparent, “semi-translucent” is redundant
It's hilarious how in the 90s it was all about the word processor and the printer.
all the same apple things are still in place - feels odd looks great - "it's only 100 bucks more"
I loved MacAddict magazine
About Apple discontinuing clones: “I don’t think they’ll ever recover their market share” 🤔
They didn't, their market share is under 8%. They pivoted to making appliances like the iPod.
@@ian_b MacOS market share is over 9% and I’d argue it makes sense to count iOS devices like iPads because they’re just as much a computer as any 90s desktop was.
@@ian_b also the highest market share Apple ever had was 12% and that was in 95, before clones were introduced
Part of the problem is you two are arguing about a partial quote. “What it really showed was that Apple was unwilling to change its business model to accommodate other players. Will they recover from that? Well, I don’t think they’ll ever recover the market share that those guys would have provided them.” He didn’t say it was a death blow to the company, or that the company couldn’t recover from the clone debacle (which did make them look bad at the time and hurt short-term market confidence), or even that they wouldn’t regain some of their personal market share for their computers. “The market share they could have gotten” means he thought, at the time of filming, that keeping the clones was a better way to increase Mac OS market share. Which makes sense, if one assumed clone growth had continued at the same rate as it had for its short existence anyway, which is what many thought at the time. But Steve Jobs felt it was better to have smaller relative OS market share while selling a higher absolute number of their own machines. He wanted to compete against Windows, not against cut-price Macs with PS/2 keyboards and VGA monitors. He felt the latter actually made Mac OS worse (which is dubious, the clones are well-loved today, most of the same chips on the system were compatible due to the clone spec). And Apple has since leaned into that, even stronger than they had begun to when this was made. But Mac OS never took off the way the clones were meant to induce, that’s why the programme existed in the first place, and this analyst evidently thought they were still on track for that growth had it not been for the intervention. His statement is one of speculative lost potential, not one that can be easily proven or disproven just by looking at historic market share. That’s one way people keep their jobs in that field, by offering opinions rather than facts or projections. It increases the viability of the labour pool as you can get second opinions etc. And they’re not simply easily disprovable 6 months down the line which could make you look bad. His argument was essentially that they should’ve made the iMac while still licensing clones, to entice customers with design and form factor whilst still improving the software dev situation by increasing potential third party software customers. Jobs would have argued that most people would probably have settled for a clone instead of aspiring to an iMac, and maybe he’s right. That’s certainly how it worked with iPods, and there was absolutely an aspirational element to the iMac as well. The Jobs way was high risk and high reward; the analyst’s preference was likely seen as safer. We can argue with hindsight that Apple would have continued to slowly die as yet another computer company, if they’d taken the safe way. We can say the safe way would have been simply drawing out the death for longer. We can say the clones probably didn’t have long-term potential. We can say the only way for their long-term success was to take big risks and get big rewards. But - if they’d failed with the iMac, or iBook, or iPod, they probably would have died and journalists would probably still be congratulating all the naysayer analysts. Maybe the clones would have been viable for a very long time; they certainly made various Apple parts suppliers happy, like Motorola. Maybe Apple could have still had their pivot even if they’d kept the clones. Alternate histories are tricky beasts - and that’s why the analyst invoked them. They’re inherently unprovable and speculative, so they’re great ways to express his opinion. .
@@caseycu No, you don't count non-COMPUTERS as a part of the computer market. Tablets have their own market section.
This show feels like they're trying to rush through everything to fit it all. That's the plus side of KZhead and the modern Internet. They can make shows as long as they want.
Modern internet = 8 second TikTok clips
So yeah, that actually _is_ a Mac plug... just not the old style. About the mouse: "It feels odd in the hand, but it _looks_ great!" Okay, yeah, and that's the _"important"_ thing, isn't it?
I just loved that computer, but the first thing I did was to plug in a microsoft mouse with a short homemade custom cable. That hockeypuck mouse was terrible.
Completely forgot the I-mac released in 98. Ive got one but the CRT needs repair, boots up, OS loads, but the screen is just a still garbled image.
Haha Tim Draper .... the guy that invested in Theranos.
All billionaires are geniuses (they tell us)
I really miss this show use to watch it on Sundays on pbs
At 7:59 there is a PlayStation logo and the words Cyber Shop. Does anyone know any information about this?
I totally fell for the 2nd gen iMacs. Bought one in 2000. Fell even deeper into Mac when OS X came out. I had never owned a computer until the iMac. Then in 2003 I learned to build PCs and never went back to Mac. Still, I think OS X is the best OS I've ever used
Now is a good time to come back to the Mac.
@@williamreynish827 lol no man I have no desire or the need for a Mac.
@@jorgem50 Search your feelings. Return. Return to the Mac. It’s time.
@@BillRey😂
@@jorgem50 Well. In ten years gaming consoles and smart TV's will be the new leap. PC's are ancient component based rubbish and Apple were simply selling to those that could afford them like me. Winblows is and always will be complete trash.
It's crazy to think that back then, an LCD monitor cost 1200 bucks, but to be fair, 4K monitors nowadays aren't that much cheaper, either.
+Mihály Kobela You got a good point there! You know what, after all these years, The Computer Chronicles still ROCK!!!! In my opinion, you can still learn something new by watching these show, well at least I can .... just sayin ....
@@retrospacenet Paid 300 bucks for my LG 32" VA 4K panel. Worth every penny, and half the price of your BenQ. But you can still pay over a grand for a monitor these days, and Apple (certified) displays are just as expensive as in the 90s.
Hello from 2021 ive seen a 4K pc monitor for £200 on Amazon UK prices are going down every year , it is funny an LCD monitor back then was 1200 but today you can buy one for like 10 pounds lol
Apple's newer studio display is still around $1500. High end monitors are always expensive. You can find cheaper alternatives, but if you want the best, you're gonna have to pay for it.
Is it just me, or did that iMac have a really weird startup chime?
Steve Jobs famously referred to Ellen Hancock as a “bozo”, and this interview of her shows that he was right...she clearly did not “get” what Apple has always been about.
If Hancock hadn't intervened in the Copland nonsense, Jobs would have (rightly) gone broke with Next.
@@rabidbigdog technically, tho she was opposed to acquiring Next. I think she wanted to go with Solaris or something.
@@rabidbigdog Steve wasn't anywhere near broke with Next. WebObjects was a huge hit
@@McDonaldsDudeI disagree, I mean WebObjects was a successfully product no doubt, but it wasn’t enough to make NeXT a profitable company since they loss a lot of money with the failure of hardware sells, NeXT was a great company, with the best people and terrific products way ahead of its time, fortunately NeXT is a huge part of the new Apple.
next wasn’t going broke. steve stopped focusing on workstations and started to sell their software
In 2021 Apple reached 7.5% of the market, according to IDC, which I think is not so different from the late 1990s. But this 7.5% actually means over 100 million users (compared to 20-25 million back in the 1990s, so 4-5 times more customers), so Apple is doing great because they sell a lot of computers for a single maker, and at generally higher prices than PCs. Apart from that, they are not just a computer company anymore, since they make other electronics as well, so the reinvention of the company as Steve Jobs intended to be has happened. Also the market is different now: Compaq has vanished, HP and Dell are doing well, but they are facing great competition from Asian companies (Asus, Acer etc.) who sell cheaper. In other words, market share is not everything. I've never had an Apple product, apart from iTunes and Safari on my PC, but I have a lot of respect for them on how they managed to stay and grow in the business all these years.
Hard to love Macs, since they lack versalitily. For example you can´t connect Elgato capture cards to them, can´t really stream with them, can´t game with them and the amount of external HW that is compatible with them is very limited.
@Joseph Yeah, I know, I recently switched to an M1 Pro MacBook Pro 14 inch, it‘s a much better experience than Windows.
@@Kynos1 Nice. I got one of the new 16". They're great machines.
doesn’t matter - apples smartphone market share is astronomical. the iphone made them a trillion dollar company
This was the beginning of Apple being thought of as a cool conpany making cool products. Before that it was strictly academic, AV and nerds. In order to buy a Mac you had to understand why and then there was price. Most normies didn't go out and buy Macs like they do today. The iMac was the beginning of this.
As jobs said, Jobs made computers for artists. And everyone wants to be thought of as an artist. The hardcore business guys who took over after Steve made "boxes of garbage for maths nerds".
2:33 lol why didnt he use the hole in the middle?
The Year Steve Jobs saved Apple and the rest is history
The iMac G3 would come in a variety of colors. In late 1999 eMachines released an all in one computer called the eOne, which was the subject of many lawsuits between eMachines and Apple. The computer was discontinued in mid-2000 due to the lawsuits.
8:09 OS 10 (not yet called OS X yet) looking a bit more old-school there.
that monitor is 50$ now
There was no sound?
No sound?
This…gorgeous iMac sitting right here🤣🤣🤣 wow if only they could see todays products.
3:00 That mouse sucks but at least it looks great.
14:50 Our modern Ios still use this feature
Actually, I did not assume the included browser was internet explorer. I "forgot".
It was a reference to Microsoft investing $150m into Apple to stop it going bankrupt.
"It feels odd in the hand, but it looks great." Yeah, because the most important thing about a mouse is that it looks cool, not that it feels good to use for long periods of time, HELLO?
At least they publicly acknowledged it, apologized and fixed the shape. Apple still however won't put out a physical two button mouse. :/
@@sternkrieger1950 at least they haven’t made you press ctrl while clicking for ages (with the Mighty Mouse, unless it was the Pro Mouse before it). But some people don’t like having to lift off their left click finger to do a right click. Of course, the Magic Mouse ergonomics are awful for a host of other ways, too. I could just about get along with the Mighty Mouse in hand but the Magic one made me stop using it after a month of progressively worse pain. I can’t believe they’re still selling variants of the Magic Mouse. But most people seem to prefer the desk trackpad over their own mouse, if they don’t just use a third party mouse.
But it doesn't even look good! When I look at those puck mice, my only thoughts are about how impractical and uncomfortable such a thing would be to actually use.
Apple has historically always had sucky mice. Ironic for a company that popularized the GUI
@@sternkrieger1950 And now you have a mouse that can't be plugged in while in use lmao.
Was piracy(downloading pirated content) possible on Macintosh though?
Of course, just as they were warez downloaders on PCs they were also on Macs. I remember using Hotline and Carracho back in the days to get illegal Mac software and games (hey don't blame me, we were young, poor, ignorant and didn't know better).
@@sternkrieger1950 Piracy is good if you want free stuff, so don't blame yourself (:
@@sternkrieger1950 the first thing I thought of when I read that comment was hotline lol
@@sternkrieger1950 Theres still some hotline servers out there today! (2020)
yeah, no shit
didn't even mentionn the M1 chip
Lol.
You can say it wasn’t ready for launch 😂
love how papples philosophy hasn't changed at all till this day ( 2023 ), " yeah it looks nice, works terribly and cost's a bit ( loads ) more ".........
"Feels odd in the hand but looks great". That sums up Apple for you.
No sound
You too? I thought I was losing my mind
Horrible mistake my ass. Market share? Hindsight is 2020
19:06 oops
Ellen Hancock was a bozo. Had she got her way, Apple would have went straight down the toilet trying to run Solaris instead of the NeXT OS, which became Mac OS X.
It's the Prison Guy!
Lol I remember that
@@JaredConnell I so wanted to work for Macaddict back in the day, I was like 12 haha. I loved the staff videos they put on their CD’s
RIP Poor Steve Jobs.
lol even back then they didn't believe in cooling the cpu's. no thermal paste on that crappy arm chip......
Wow you came back two years later to make even more stupid comments? Obviously the paste was removed for presentation purposes. Perhaps you'll come back two years from now to demonstrate why you're still unable to figure anything out for yourself.
i love apple
I love them but their products are always so expensive, well except iPhones which are now cheaper than Samsung !!! crazy world we live in 2021 is
It seems Apple was not a fan of ports even back then...
The easily upgraded PowerPC G3 had to be stopped. Obviously.
I remember that Steve Jobs was not a fan of ports...
Every time I hear Sarah O’brian’s grating stilted slurred speech I switch to closed captions.
Mac does not use motherboard, but logicboard
The tale about modern day slave masters
Thank you steve jobs for making "linux" not much in headache, making a beatiful OS not stupid linux way
LOL at how Apple tried to talk shit about x86 processors and tout their PowerPC processors, then do a complete 180 degree turnaround years later going with the x86 since they finally got out of the stage of denial.
The switch to Intel happened eight years after this show. The Intel and compatible CPUs back then were worse than the PPC contemporaries. Only years later when IBM couldn’t solve heat and power issues with the G5 and Intel trashed 90% of their designs to focus on new ones based on their mobile designs and licensing AMD 64Bit technology Apple switched. So it has nothing to do with denial and everything with changing technology.
The cpu space was far more fragmented in the 90's. PPC. PA-RISC. SPARC.MIPS. The alpha. As well intel was attempting to Sunset the x86 so they could ship itanium. Actually at the time Intel was barely ahead in the x86 space. AMD was punching above its weight and cyrix was gobbling up the low end market. At the time PPC and x86 were pretty frequently trading blows and the top spot in the consumer space. Only getting worse with itanium failing and the Pentium 4 being a disaster. Intel only started getting its groove back after ditching netburst and itanium and going all in on AMDs 64 bit architecture and power efficiency.
Only to abandon x86 for ARM and custom silicon.
@@directive0 Leaving Intel and x86 in the dust.
Dude you cant say a Pentium 4 of the 00s was anywhere near as good as the CPUs Apple or even AMD were using , in reality Intel caught up by 2006 with the core 2 duo and Quad CPUs