WHAT IF: Did LOKI Plan to Kill the Avengers? | Marvel Theory BREAKDOWN
2021 ж. 24 Там.
90 423 Рет қаралды
What If episode 3 realizes Ultron's dream of taking the Avengers apart, "from the inside." Literally, in the Hulk's case. And as the episode reveals, it was Hank Pym's heel turn as Yellowjacket who was behind everything, all along.
But rewatching the episode made us wonder: was it really Hank's plan? Or did he have someone behind the scenes, who knew about the Avengers initiative and wanted to conquer Midgard?
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Written and Edited by Pavel Terehovsky (pavel8866.wixsite.com/pavelt) pavel8866@gmail.com
Hosted by Ryan Arey ( / ryanarey )
#WhatIf #Loki #Theory
Putting this all on Loki is way too much of a reach. It's more than likely that Loki took advantage of Thor's death to rally the Asgardians to take over and put Midgard (Earth) under his direct rule since Odin would feel partially responsible for Thor's fate after banishing him.
Wasn't Odin in the Odinsleep during this time period?
@@charlespoole8525 Under the original timeline, he'd still be under the Odinsleep but we don't know in this timeline when or if he would have woken up after Thor's passing. I'm sure his death would have affected Odin greatly when he found out. But fair observation regarding Odin's condition.
Agreed but I have a different reason. Loki's love/hate relationship with Thor made him more inclined to think Midgard sucked and lashed out against them. When he talked to Hank Pym as Nick Fury mimick, he was mad about Thor's death and no others I would bet on Alexander Pierce killing Hope and telling Hank about how Fury wants to recruit an even bigger team.
But Loki wasn't monitoring Selvig until AFTER the events of Thor. After he was cast into the abyss.
5:25 "Loki knew about the plan to assemble the Avengers". No, he didn't! I don't know if in main timeline he knew, but if he got to know because of Erik, that happens AFTER Thor returns to Asgard and Odin wake up
yes that annoyed me too
In this timeline I think captain America and captain marvel can't defeat King Loki
@@Eldritch-1 since loki is now agreeable king he might get odin force 😂
Thank you. I think that ScreenCruch have been too much time on pym particles, he is more and more crazy. Anyway you just destroyed his theory, you deserve more likes!
Ryan decided that the Loki in the Episode was Omniscient and came from the future knowing what could happen.
This theory is waaayy too stretched and convoluted, too many things Loki could not have foreseen to plan it. Despite his claim about being many steps ahead of his opponents (to paraphrase a line in the Loki series), this feels like beyond him.
Yea, idk why this What If Episode needed a What If KZhead video
Yeah I completely agree. I don’t think Loki even knew about shield until later and definitely didn’t understand that one single death of an old man scientists daughter would set the perfect situation up. The whole idea of what if is ONE single action changes the timeline.
It was most likely Pierce if there even is someone else behind it
IT MUST BE ALECKZANDER PIERCE
It’s confirmed hope got killed by the winter soldier
I'm pretty sure it was Piers and Hydra that planned the death of the Avengers. Hydra just didn't take into account Loki taking over.
This was a faster and more successful version of Project Insight. Rather than take out 20 million targets, just take out the ones who'll get in the way. No Cap, no Nick, no Chronicoms, just eliminate the necessary targets. I think Loki did get in the way, but Pierce can still transport Hive or Shuma Gorath or whatever the Hydra god is and have no one stand in their way.
My thoughts exactly
Pierce*
5:25 I don't think Loki knew about the initiative because Loki was never banished to anywhere in this.
Also the timeline is wrong. Loki did not know about Eric before Thor meet him. Thor only meet him days before "Clint" kills him. The clip is from after Loki falls from the bridge.
@@Temptation666 Yes, just what I was thinking 👍
And i wonder how hank know thor will bcame threat if he just arive on earth. And no one know he has super power if he can lift mjolnier. Thor just normal humat at the time
@@geelangade576 If you looked it back, Hank was just finding a chance to isolate Barton. Making Barton a criminal worked well, Thor's death was just collateral damage, and he only knew Thor was an alien later.
@@nguyenquoctoan6354 maybe loki were there noticing hank and take the chance so he will make barton kill thor by controling hank mind. With thor death he can bring asgard army to earth
Is this a universe where Loki wins? I'm in.
Maybe not there's still avengers
@@justmebtw1374 I'll still keep my hopes up
Me too chances are he would have prevented Covid-19, we would have upgraded medical care and we would have cool flying Viking ships for cars. Mine would be tricked out with a wrap of our New God Emperor on the side. With lights, pillows and refrigerator full of booze. And everyone loves watching Midgard's favorite games show. Sword fight.
Nah, I loved the theory you had in the recent video you did on Episode 3 about Alexander Pierce being the man behind the curtain. That one didn't stretch as much as Mr. Fantastic's arms. Still a good video though!
There is no way Loki could have known The Avengers would beat him. (Considering the fact that in Avengers he thought he could beat them) What makes more sense is Alexander Pierce getting rid of all the fury's agents
@@Eldritch-1 not following u here. Pierce getting Hope killed by the Winter Solider, caused a chain reaction which resulted in Hank going mad
Somehow, I feel this theory works better in the comics, but it just seems like an awfully large amount of foresight to know given that he wouldn’t have known any of the players. I think Eric’s theory makes more sense with Hank being manipulated by Alexander Pierce, a prominent figure for Hydra, unbeknownst to Fury. He’d be the other person with the knowledge of the Avengers initiative.
If any of that was true, Loki would have just taken earth over in the first place. He took advantage of the opportunity to seem reasonable to Sif. But he showed no signs of having any idea who Hope or Hank Pym were. Also, there would be so many easier ways to have Thor killed while he was mortal. He would have no way of knowing what Pym would do or if it would be effective. I agree that Loki may have wanted Thor dead. He was evil in the First Avengers movie. He killed 80 people in 2 days. So it doesn't have to be a wildly different version of him. It was an interesting theory but it falls apart pretty quickly.
Loki didn't manipulate Selvig until AFTER the events of the first Thor Movie, so he wouldn't have known anything about the Avengers Initiative I don't know what event changed to turn Pym bad, maybe he decided to give Hope the Wasp outfit after Janet died? Or maybe Janet didn't die and he went crazy? Alexander Pierce probably recruited him too
I think it was Pierce who organized Hope's death and Hank killing the Avengers. His plan backfired when Loki arrived.
I'm liking how different in genre these are so far. A great little mystery here and it was great seeing insane Yellowjacket Hank finally
I like the video. The only part I'm not convinced of is that Fury recruiting Hope was the Nexus event. I don't care how good of an agent Hope was, Natasha would still have been a better choice for that Iran mission. So something else had to have happened for Fury to pick Hope over Natasha.
Yeah...
But ! What if....
They were on the mission together. That's how Nat knew Hope.
Yeah the theory is reaching. More likely Loki was just banking on the opportunity rather than planning it all.
No Loki did not kill Hope. Fury said Hope died on a mission in the Ukraine. The same mission Natasha said was escorting a scientice when she met the Winter Soldier.
So you are basically saying that "It was Loki all along".
Naah...your reaching big time. Loki just spied an opportunity here that he took full advantage of. He had no idea hank would kill the avengers when he arranged hopes death. He had no foreknowledge of the existence of the avengers and only met Erik after THOR.. Not buying this.
"did Loki plan the death of [spoiler]?" *puts tombstone in thumbnail*
How Loki can use "frosting box" without show his true nature of frost giant?
illusion
@@Temptation666 but he himself doesn't know he's a Frost Giant until he picks up the Casket. He also changes everytime he uses it. It's called inconsistent writing, from writers that haven't worked on the MCU before ;)
When Loki gave his speech at the end, I thought for a second it was going to be the origin of the President Loki variant
I'm not convinced... Why would Loki spare Nick Fury to find Hank if his motif was to kill Thor and rule the Earth?
I think Loki was pretty in-line with his MCU character, he just had a lot of time to grow into that person in 2 years
I watched one of the adds all the way through & I absolutely loved the intro/background hip hop music for the video, shout out to the SC editors
not sure its Loki. I think its hydra, remember they used a algorythem to calculate who would be a threat. So Hydra send pim insane and then push info on him to perform a shit list. maybe they even brain wash him. But for this to be a loki thing? nah its too subtle.
Man, I love these rabbit hole dissertations of nerdery.
@ScreenCrush, I liked where you took it, cuz originally when I saw the title of the vid, I was like "okay, how's he gonna spin this one??" Very skeptically I might add, but I like it...I still wish you'd go into detail about the Justin Hammer possibilities, and I wish Marvel and President Feige would take it there for 1 "What If..." tie-in, but.....you know. Still an awesome theory crafting vid. KUDOS
another great vid ryan
My goodness that HULK scene was just UNREAL AND INSANE 🤯🤯🤯🤯🤯🤯😱😱😱😱😱😱😱😱😱😱
Love your takes, Ryan. Your thoughts on Pierce being behind it was great. But this one, just can’t see it
I’ve never seen a bigger reach
One issue - Loki wasn’t following Selvig when Thor was banished…he only started AFTER Thor proved worthy again
love the "Come On, What did you expect"
Great theory Ryan!
But you said in the last episode Pierce was the big bad of the episode.... hmm
He can't resist talking about Loki. Pretty sure he has even said Loki is his favorite MCU character.
At last loki get to realize his glorious purpose.
ok. but you're working under the impression that in this What If happens under the exact same circumstances that the "sacred timeline". And he honestly seems to decided in an impulse to conquer Midgard, though.
Wow, this episode was amazing. At first I thought it was Loki behind everything using his magic to kill everyone but as soon as Betty Ross mentioned nanoscience I knew it was Yellowjacket, only I thought it was the Darren Cross version working for Hydra or something. Scary how far this Hank fell, all the ingredients were apparently there, they just needed the final push.
My biggest hang up on this theory is in the first Thor film Loki seemed legitimately shocked that Odin banished Thor. Yes, he was expecting Thor to get in trouble but I think the lengths Odin went to shook Loki and deepened his paranoia. He'd have to have a reason to believe that Odin would be willing to banish Thor. I guess if he somehow found out about Hela then he might would've been able to on count that. Maybe he learned about Though if he knew about the avengers then how come he didn't plan for Carol Danvers? She put on quite a show in Captain Marvel and there's no way Heimdall didn't give the royal family a report about some chick that blew up a bunch of Kree ships over Earth. I think both of these get aroundable but I do think they'd need to be addressed.
Maybe he account carol Danvers and have the destroyer on earth
I can see Captain Marvel in this timeline recruiting an up and coming rag tag team with a Terran named the Guardians of the Galaxy to help with Fury's resistance to Loki as well as bring in some Skrulls to help infiltrate the Asgardians.
In your first video about What If? Episode 3, you stated, Ryan, that Alexander Pierce was behind Hank killing the Avengers: I like that theory a little better. After seeing this video, I'll chalk it up as Loki telling Pierce to get Hank to do it in exchange for Pierce leading Hydra's (as SHIELD) forces to be Loki's Earth-bound secret army. Thanks, Ryan 👍🏽👌🏽✊🏽
What if fury called captain marvel instead? Also, Hank Pym is crazy, there is no way he'd be dependable. Loki just got lucky. Or unlucky since he's in for a beating in the end. There is still the Ancient One, Captain America, and Captain Marvel.
Tf is captain America gonna do to Loki, even physically he isn’t a match
You pitch a good theory, Ryan that it could be possible that this variant of Loki doesn't care about his brother and his dad and just wanted to purely further his interests. In that case he could have schemed the entire thing to make him rule not just Asgard but Earth too, and make himself out to be a hero so that Asgard would trust him.
IT WAS AUSOME EPISODE 🔥🙌🏻
it just got me thinking, did hank pym told hope the heroic act her mother did when they're working for SHIELD when she's still a kid, which might convince hope to become an agent, as well? that could've been the event that led up to this what if episode
I love the cut you made from the assassin winter soldier killing an avenger and shooting another to him in therapy
Also if Loki ends up removing Odin he would have the unforeseen consequence of unleashing Hela and she would usurp him as leader of Asgard so Loki might end up teaming up with Fury.
What did you think of the episode?
Better than the first
Kinda weak ..
Better than episode 1 for sure
Best episode so far.
I would like to see more of the consequences of the What If
Makes more sense that Pierce took advantage of Pym and ordered his daughters death, sending him on a vengeful crusade to take out The Avengers before they could threaten Hydra's plans. Romanoff was about to be sent to see him so that he could get rid of a loose end and the final candidate (that he knew of). Loki just took advantage of the power vacuum and used it as an opportunity to claim Earth as his own.
This plan of loki, would make him a hero, even in Odin's eyes, as Asgard would easily conquer earth, but by neutralizing a threat peacefully would reflect on Odin's ideal's that a wise king should think of war, but must always be ready for it.
I think Loki was (could be) behind the events, but I don't think it goes back that far, all the way to the death of Hope. I think that happened, then closer to the events of the episode, he used his tricks to point the sword (Hank) at the Avengers. Even Loki's craziest plans aren't more than a couple of months in length. Odessa was way too far to have it planned out
So my boy the Watcher started seeing more realities after the events of Loki, my guy is getting suprised by the turn of events not more than us
Nice thumbnail, no spoilers in that at all :p
This vid def felt like a quick pull together to hit the quota🤣
Was not ready for the Hulksplosion AT ALL!!!!
I don't know about this Theory. I think Loki had his own plans similar to the Thor movie. But when Thor was killed, he jumped on the opportunity to take advantage of it. I think it's more likely that Hydra in this reality caught wind of what Fury was doing creating the Avengers and decided to stop it before it would start.
I'm wondering if screen crush are the writers of Marvel's "What If..." because this is so logical and interesting
We know loki is not capable to kill Thor, even if he "hates" him and wants him out of the way.
It doesn't matter if the theory makes sense - you got me to click and watch so your master plan came to fruition. Well done. But no, I don't but it - the "it was Pierce all along" theory makes more sense.
so this timelines avengers are captain america, rhodes, and captain marvel anyone else?
i just assumed rhodes would take tony’s place
I think the nexus event was Hank telling Hope about how her mother died right away. Hope joined shield to both honor her mother’s sacrifice and to piss her dad off.
Nah Loki being behind this is a. MAJOR STRECH
Captain America, Captain Marvel, Nick Fury, and Agent Coulson vs Loki. 😁 so cool!
It’s a stretch but still makes more sense than just Hank Pym wanting revenge for Hope’s death
This guys favorite fuckin sentence is “ but I’ll get to that later” 😂
The problem with this "After-the-Fact" speculation video is that you could easily make Loki a Pawn as well, and Blame it all on some other Villain too. "It was Agatha, All along." Or Thanos, or Ego, or Ronin the Accuser. I am still waiting for the What if? episode tying it all together.... oh wait, we will probably never see that because the What if? episodes are all taking place in different Universes and they really don't matter! What Ryan didn't tell us is that the Loki in the What if? episode was actually a future Loki which is how he knew about the forming of the Avengers and when and where he needed to be to manipulate the game.
I was hoping that it was going to be Ultron created by Hank Pym (like in the comics) that was pulling the strings all along. Manipulating Hanks Grief to remove the Avengers.
I agree that Hank needed the push to go psycho but must have been Alekzander Pierce and Loki just took advantage of the situation.
7:11 During their first encounter with Fury and S.H.I.E.L.D., Loki openly referred to himself as the rightful king of Jotunheim in front of the Asgardians. Honestly, I feel like this whole theory is a bigger reach than anything Heavy Spoilers has ever said.
So what about the eternal fire they couldn’t use it on Thor.And shouldn’t Heimdall been watching, he couldn’t see Hank pym?
Holy crap. Best episode but I can’t look at Hank the same. That was scary. Man I want a sequel to this next season
A timeline where Ryan doesn't say "I will talk about later in the video"
This video is kinda like when Chuck figured out what Jimmy did with the Mesa Verde papers. Seems kinda like a stretch, but could be very true.
too much of a stretch imo. 1. loki would have no idea that killing hope would set hank off on a rampage against shield. 2. for the most part loki doesnt want to kill thor, he just wants him out of the way of his ascension to the throne. 3. loki never knows about the avengers initiative, he only comes to earth after Thor 1 AND only because selvig gets access to the tesseract.
It was always my assumption that Loki was behind it all, but I don't have anything like a perfect recollection of the events of the MCU so I have to defer to those that do. I just like the explanation. I love an evil schemer. IIRC, Uatu never did say when the nexus point was, which makes me think that they were encouraging this sort of speculation. After all, it's a What If, and they don't need to worry about establishing a firm canon. This allows them the rare opportunity to have fun with this sort of thing.
A yt already did a gif on this, it wasn’t Loki, it was buky barnes
I liked the theory that Alexander Pierce was behind everything.
Yeah Loki only needs Thor dead to take the throne. Loki planning all that is a reach.
This means either Hope was always as secret Shield agent even in the main MCU timeline long before Antman or the choice was Fury recruited Hope van Dye
I believe that was indeed this universes nexus event.
Who was in the Destroyer armor? It has to have a spirit.
Loki using thor death as a excuse to take over earth like in thor.
Interesting... But I prefer your theory about Alexander Pierce better. Still, this is a very interesting idea!
One problem Loki would not have been watching through Erik because this was during Thor...before Loki fell off the Rainbow Bridge and during the Odin sleep.
Theory here , I think Carol Danvers popping up with long hair would indicate she hasn't been to Louisiana never coming in contact with Monica Rambo. I think here arc of self realization never happened in full form and the cree will become even worse off than they already are? If you use my theory please give a shout-out to Barrett Russell I watch your show all the time big fan! Keep up the good work!
The real question in this universe is how pimp killed hulk, sure he can rip him apart, but supposedly that wouldn't kill him
Nick Furry is known for using other people’s death to motivate people to be avengers. In this reality, He told young Hope how her mom died sacrificing herself causing her to hate hank and following her moms footsteps to join shield, this episode is how that backfired.
If Ep 1 is about Agent Carter being the first super soldier, and Bucky not becoming the Winter Soldier, who is Captain America in this timeline? Are each episode supposed to be in different timelines or are they supposed to be in continuity?
Videos on Shang chi please!
I like the idea but think it's a bit of a reach, Hank only killed Thor by happenchance as he was there when he came to kill Hawkeye. If there was anything else in the episode that lead more credence to Hank purposefully killing Thor I'd be onboard, but as it stands it's just too coincidental for a "plan" - say if Loki had added Thor to the prospective Avengers list, yeah, but as it is, nice work, but not convinced I'm afraid. Love these type of features though, keep up the good work!
well you say no one knows Loki is a frost giant but he directly say that he is the rightfull ruler of Jotunheim in front of the whole asgardian army
Loki is so loved by fans that they reject the idea that he’s really evil. I think when he invaded earth Thanos was influencing him with the mind stone.
Hope was killed by winter soldier. So, in cap 2 black widow mentions that she was escorting a scientist outside of Odessa Ukraine where winter soldier killed the scientist. In episode 3 of what if nick fury said hope died Just outside of Odessa Ukraine while on a mission. So, hydra probably had hope killed.
I believe episode 2 and 3 may be in the same timeline. Heare me out. Let's take this chronologicly. T'challa gets abducted by Yondu. He becomes Starlord and recruits a bunch of bad guys, included Thanos. (By the way... maybe he stolen the Mind-stone-scepter from Thanos and used that to change him.) This allows Collector to become the new biggest warlord. Hope becomes an agent of Shield, and dies. Hank kills all the Avengers, and Loki invades Earh with the Asgardians. Somhow this kills Odin, wich frees Hela. She takes over Lokis empire. Hela deafeats Fury, Steve and Carol Danvers. Hela works along with Collector somehow and gives him Mjolnr, along with Caps Shield. And a Wakandian Rhino. Then everything we see in episode 2 happens. But when T'challa returnd to his family, they're not his real family 😰
The way Loki faught yellow jacket it's possible he killed hope for grand plan
Kinda a weak theory with all due respect
Loki: first of all, who in the bloody hell is Hope??
This is a stretch. I don't know why Hope would have been so specifically targeted. Sure, we've seen Loki have plans, but I think it would be more in character to take advantage of the situation without having been the one to plan EVERYTHING out. Also, there's nothing special about this version of Loki. He literally tried to conquer the earth RIGHT AFTER this in the original timeline. Why does he need to be MORE evil to do it again in this one?
Not Loki, Hydra. Loki was hanging with Citurians at that point and Thanos
OHHH I WAS SOOOO WAITING FOR THIS 👏🏻
This is the timeline Uatu is recruiting New Avengers to protect, this is the end of the Long Week, by the time 2012 rolls around they’re going to need more than just the Caps to fight off Thanos’ invasion.