This is why Electricians don't use Romex in wet environments (TROUBLESHOOTING OUTDOOR LIGHTS)
Before you go pulling that NM cable through some smirf-tube underground, watch this video. Conduits installed in underground environments are considered wet, and NM cable IS NOT A WET-rated conductor.
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This was a quick and easy little troubleshooting job. The customer called and said they had a circuit that kept tripping everytime their timeclock came on, which controlled their outdoor lighting. So I decided to stop by and check it out.
I found all of the bulbs installed were incandescent candelabras, which can break easily and sometimes show as a short circuit while troubleshooting. I found quite a few bulbs that were bad, so we just took all of them out to see if that would clear the fault. It didn't. We flipped the breaker and it still tripped, with no bulbs in the fixtures. I inspected all of the sockets at each fixture, and there were no visible signs of anything shorted out or melted, so I began to think there may be issues with the wires inside the fixtures.
This is less likely to be the case, but I also noticed no weatherproofing at the base of each fixture so the likelihood of moisture getting into the fixtures was pretty. Upon opening all of the light fixtures I verified that the conductors inside the stone were soaked at every location. The problem with this is that Romex (NM cable) is not rated for wet environments. The insulation around the conductors is not made of a material that is rated to withstand moisture, and over time can break down and cause a short circuit to occur.
This is exactly what happened.
#electrical #electricaltroubleshooting #wiring
ive been a commercial/industrial electrician for 15+ yrs and a overhead lineman for 5 yrs. i still love watching you teach your techniques because you take pride in your work..keep it up brother God Bless and stay safe
Ya, really took a lot of pride in literally putting tape on a known code violation, collecting money and rolling out so fast he didn’t have time to video the lights working. I’d really hate to see your level of someone not taking pride in their work. I can appreciate your sentiment. Dustin is a fantastic electrician however this is by far his worst video and something we’ve all done but should really keep to yourself.
I wish everyone would say God Bless. 🙏
We need more videos of you working on real world shit. I love it
Cement is water permeable, the amount depends on cement mixture, hence it is a wet location when exposed to the ground or outdoor conditions. It does not take high amounts of moisture to damage romex so the small amounts of moisture that make it through the permeable cement can do heavy damage to the insulation.
The real problem with using type NM cable in a situation like this, even if it was for a 12 or 24 volt circuit, is the jacket and inner paper, even though the conductor insulation might be THWN, the paper soaks up water, the outer jacket holds it in, everyone has seen THWN fail eventually because of a scuff in the nylon outer jacket on the conductor after a few years, but that is on a conduit that is more than likely filled with water because of condensation and elevation seepage, now couple that with rotting paper.
Those fixtures were not sealed to the mounting surface. There was plenty of room for water to enter the splice area from rain or pressure washing. Also, there is no way to know if those conduits were continuous between fixtures or were punctured during construction. We have all seen crazy stuff like "direct buried romex".
You can do a neat job of taping if you wrap your tape around a small 1/4" drive socket first and use this "mini roll" that you created to dispense the tape around the conductor tightly. Marine heat shrink tube with sealant is also a decent choice and maybe a braided sleeving for abrasion resistance. I love the 'real world' service calls. It's great content.
I use a short section of heavy gauge wire use a low torque small drill motor to turn it
I’ve taped many wire on service calls where they just need to get it going again. Only some of us will admit it though! Good find
I've been on service calls where it needs fixed NOW and then a date and time will be scheduled for it to be fixed right. Usually within a few days.
There comes a time where you can only do what the customer is willing to pay for. Really sucks when a couple of hours of troubleshooting has been spent to diagnose the problem correctly just to half ass the repair.
Twist the up and apply tape. I for one soldered them and then taped. I noticed the code book is different than when I retired many years ago. Never felt confident in the crimp splices but I saw them hold up in very bad environments. I considered the book as a minimum standard and approached wiring from an engineering standpoint--often better than the code. Engineering was my background.
@@paisleyprince5280 charge for the troubleshooting and say have a nice day call someone else.
So much wasted video on a simple fix
You've really stepped up your videos! They are a lot more comprehensive with the code checks and safety checks etc! Great work. Ps thank you soo much for doing service call videos. Theyre inherently more difficult and thus more entertaining.
lol
I found the ending of this video to be just as satisfying as if seeing the actual fixture lights working properly! Thanks for the closure! 👍🏼
The one important item that I always do when making up connections in a wet location is to make sure the wire nut is facing up. This prevents any water from pooling inside the wire nut and wire connections. It becomes ‘self-draining’. You never want to caulk around the base of a vertical fixture, as caulking can also prevent any water that may have gotten inside the fixture and base from draining. Exterior light fixtures such as the ones in the video are not water tight. Rain water will enter via the top finial or around metal to metal joints or glass to metal joints. Also every exterior fixture has rusted rivets holding the lamp sockets or a socket with a rusted center (hot) tab.
Or you could just use the expensive WP wire nuts like an adult. LOL
@@jasonj4865 my thought also. Seems like use of silicon filled wn would have been a good plus up
@@jasonj4865 😭UL listed for damp environments too!
I do irrigation wiring as part of my lawn service. Even with the jelly filled wire nuts, I still point them face up so they can drain.
Yup, that's the rule with moisture: things get wet; the goal is to allow them to dry..
Well, actually there is one good reason to use incandescent bulbs. That is when you need light AND heat. Such as in incubators or warming cabinets.
Yes gotta keep those chicks warm 🐣
@@electrofrying1685 what led lights are you buying with li-fi?
Or when they are totally enclosed. Sometimes a good old incandescent is a great value...they just work.
@@heynow7363 incandescent outside is a pain, sodium or mercury fittings however are still great outside
@@darylsavage119 no doubt. I have an incandescent pole light on my corner of house 8 feet or so from corner. Lightning on this iron ore ground 300 feet from distribution lines apparently has blown a hole in 2 plus bulbs so far. I kept the last 2. I like the dual level motion detectors so there is a little light until you trip motion.. I drove ground rods on all four corners of home, attached to slab and specialty construction methods of walls. I may just need to abandon the dual bright motion and go with a good led fixture. Looks like I need to drive a rod at that light, too. It's the only one on the hill ever affected. Crazy.
I've NEVER had a bulb short out. They almost always burn out open.
Same here. Sometimes some flickering if the filament opens up and then moves a bit but I've never seen a broken filament cause a short. Although I once had a short when I tried to unscrew a light bulb on which the glass had separated from the base. As soon as I started turning the glass, poof....
Same. Wouldn't the filament just illuminate or burn up if it shorts? I also believe that most incandescent bulbs have fuses in them (Basically the wires leading up to the filaments are designed to act as fuses in cases of excessive current draw).
I think he was referring to incandescent light bulbs identifying as shorts (continuity) if you don't remove them from the circuit prior to testing-- as opposed to LEDs.
Incandescent are better in wet locations show it as a open circuit from I've heard so far LEDs that are rated for wet locations don't hold up. Maybe they have improved over the years...
Same here. I think Juice might be right. I've messed my words up plenty of times.
Seems to me that it would be best to always treat EVERY outdoor electrical component as if they were constantly soaked and use materials and methods appropriate for a wet environment as a normal practice. Yes, that would be overkill in most circumstances but you would never have to worry about anything being not quite enough.
@mariaelisakevin1 What about running a new length of replacement Romex through polyethylene tubing and attaching it to the masonry?
Dustin bro,I passed ny journeymans exam today and I wanted to say thank you for your videos you helped me out alot.keep up the good work brother
Congratulations! I wish you a full, and satisfying career sir! Welcome to the fold!
Congratulations!
Congrats, also handymen will now be the bane of your existence.
Congrats dude !!! It’s a rewarding career. I remember my instructor sharing advice with the senior class just before writing our national exam (ie Red Seal in Canada). You might have already heard this from a colleague or instructor. Mine said a newly licensed electrician is at the most dangerous point of his/her career. Newly licensed tend guys put a lot of unnecessary expectAtions on themselves. Remember, you can’t POSSIBLY know everything just because you are now licensed. A license is a minimum standard of independence and competence. Often, a competent decision is one where u decide to admit to yourself that you need to ask a more experienced colleague for guidance because u are not comfortable with the scenario you are in. I’ve been licensed for over 10 years now, and am not afraid to ask a colleague for their opinion. Equally, my opinion is often sought. Keep this advice in mind and you will be fine.
Congrats
In the house where I grew up from the mid 70's to early 90's, we had tube fluorescents in most rooms. At one point, a red and standard color ring fluorescent were combined to give a more natural light spectrum for one room. We almost never had to replace the fluorescent bulbs.
Love your videos... they're not only educational and informational, but entertaining as well. It's nice to see you always referencing code so everyone knows it's not just opinion. Keep em coming! Thanks for all your hard work you put into these videos! 👍
Definitely more repair videos like this would be great. I appreciate all you do. Many thanks!
Good to see you! The video was great in both content and quality. Regarding the conduit, Ryan Jackson says the conductor is rated for what it is rated for. The conduit doesn't do anything to change what the conductor (or cable) is rated for. Once again thank you for the great content. I really enjoyed the service call edition with code reference. Take care.
I like the “get your code book out” pause LOL
I don't think there's anything you could do to make a conduit outdoors not "wet" water will _always_ get in unless the conduit is fully potted. If air can get in (which it will, eventually), then water will get in via condensation, and then it will accumulate. At least that's my take on it.
But with the right wire, it still works. I've seen plenty of wire running literally under water with no problems.
Water in conduit is usually from air. Condensation.
You're right air has moisture, warm air meets cold air and condensation occurs over time water will buildup if not vented for evaporation. It probably would've been better if the Mason had slightly dome shaped around the pipes allowing the water to escape...
Every piece of conduit in the ground has water in it
Primer, glue, putty
AS an electrician it is your responsibility to ensure the installation is safe. I agree with all your comments however I would have done an insulation resistance test (I dont know what the regs are in America but if the results show problems with the cables which I suspect they might in that installation. I would have disconnected that circuit and informed the client why it was disconnected and offered to give various quotes for fixing the installation properly. Yes I know they may have to have walls dismantled to achieve the same job or surface conduit etc etc but that is better than water getting back into that circuit and the wall becoming live and someone getting a shock. Awkward situation to be in would like to know your thoughts on this
Would never just “tape” it up where I am in Australia, always perform an IR test and in this instance I would definitely use resin heat shrink on the exposed conductors and then apply silicone inside the conduits and fitting and then outside around the base to completely seal that chamber and keep it free from moisture, like his fault finding methods but his repair work seems very cowboy to me
@@marcgaskett yes, it was so weird to have the guy that says, ‘Get out your code book’ just slap electrical tape on as a fix - where’s that in the NEC?
🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣
@@ScottHz as if you’ve ever opened an NEC
He should have disconnected the circuit as it is unsafe. The circuit breaker was also not a ground fault.
Thank you for the ending, I was very satisfied haha. Keep making these videos I love them, there’s no other channel like you!
The previous owner of my house installed a TT-30 receptacle with "Romex" on a 20A breaker. Luckily, he ran it in 1 inch PVC. Ripped it all out and ran proper THWN to a new RV panel. The old ground was nice and green.
That may have been compliant.
@@lloydmills9619 Nope. Conduit was underground and NM-B is not rated for "wet" locations. The conductors were also undersized.
So a 30a outlet on a 20a breaker. Not so goodly
@@rbryanhull Not so good for running AC.
@@timgraham7851 Thats pretty normal on an AC. In fact the MOCP is the breaker size. They dont have to atch on an AAC and usually don't. Its common to see #12 on a 30 Amp breaker or #10 on a 50. The breaker only provides short circuit and ground fault protection in those cases.
Thanks. I love when you go through the code book. It’s extremely educational.
Thanks for a real world example and your care to check the codes. In my reading of this topic, one of the points brought up was heat dissipation, which is very different when one compares NMWU90 alone vs NMWU90 surrounded by conduit. The extra volume taken up by the cover reduces the volume of air inside the conduit, so the tables for conduit fill would need adjustment. Even though NMWU90 is not designed to be run inside conduit, I would guess that both mechanical and water protection would be better! Around here, inspectors will allow a short run for a few feet, which may help avoid an extra box for transition. The problem in your case was the lack of a plastic bushing and clamp to protect the wires from the sharp edge as they enter each light box.
A plastic bushing for a plastic pipe?
@@electricaf365 if the plastic pipe has a sharp bur-round the edge off and you have a bushing
@@bruceanderson9461 it’s smurf tube bro. There are no sharp edges.
@@electricaf365 something was sharp-maybe you can tell me what damaged the insulation as it is important to this discussion.
Love Love Love the trouble shooting aspect with this video!! This helps me hone my skills in troubleshooting.. more more of this kind of in the field videos!! Keep up the good work!!
I like the way you brought the code book into play while doing the job. Yea going through the code book just doesn’t interpret everything clearly at times. Much appreciated
Maybe if they didn't write the damn thing in Olde English it might easier to understand. Lol. It's like they don't want you understand it at times
@@nunyabidness2143 maybe find a line of work that’s not so complicated. ;)
@@ScottHz worry about yourself. I've been doing this a while. I'll be just fine
@@nunyabidness2143 Not worried about you at all - maybe don’t post KZhead comments if you don’t want comments about your comments XD
@@ScottHz or maybe just don't be a douche. The code book can be complicated with the way they word things and the way inspectors interpret things. The work itself isn't complicated. Have a good one, or dont...
Ever since I became a 480V member, my muscles have gotten bigger, women are coming up to me and asking me my name, and my hairline has filled in. Thanks, Dustin.
Maybe I should try it. Top of my Head looks like I have the mange.
7:08 - The reason it's ALWAYS the last one you check... is because once you find the problem there's no reason to keep on checking. Its like when you lose your keys or something and you tear the house apart looking for them... you always find them in the last place you look because once you found them you stop looking.
I’ve been saying this for years and never met anyone else who thinks this way!
Its a metaphysical phenomenum- mena- menum- menum
I like it, that's good and so true!
Came to post this and knew it had to already be here…. Well done sir
RIP George Carlin
Great video Dustin. The basic principle without all the legal bouncing from page to page in the code is - Non metallic sheath cable (Romex) is a "NON Rated" wire. In damp and wet locations, outside, underground, even in conduit, the wire must be "rated" for that use. Example THWN or XHHW (etc) are examples of rated wires for wet locations. I am so glad that you covered the codes from front to back about this. As so many just say, "but it works"...... my answer is "for now". I am sure that service call, the conduit does not go all the way back and the Romex is exposed to the concrete block and that why you could not pull it out. Seen that so many times from illegal work by patio and BBQ builders installing electrical. Frustrating. Home owners going the cheapest route always cost more in the end.
Filiment is the 'spring' thing. It is held in place by two contact wires which go to the base & foot of the bulb
Of course Dustin knows what a filament is. I think he was speaking on the glass rod ..
@@MrMaxyield no. he wasnt
Filament actually, but I think we got the idea. :)
@@phenry5083 yes he was.
@@xenonram no, he wasn’t.
I had a short in my landscape lighting. Took me a while to find the short. It was due to a missing junction box where the wire nuts were just buried in the dirt. Don't ask me who or what they were thinking. While fixing it, I discovered the builder ran NM cable in PVC conduit that's buried 12 inches underground. I decided to replace it all with UF cable. To my surprise, the NM was actually ok even though it was nearly 20 years old. I also replaced the really old HID lamps with some super nice LED lamps. So happy with the upgrades and now my landscape lighting is better than ever.
What is the voltage supplying your landscape lighting?
There's still *one* valid use for incandescent bulbs.. when the heat they give off is actually something worthwhile. EZ-Bake oven for your kid, chicken egg incubator, and maybe for stoplights .. Read something a couple of years ago where a city replaced the bulbs in its traffic lights and had to do an expensive re-engineer because they were getting caked with snow that the bulbs used to melt
What I would recommend for stuff like this is liquid electrical tape it's like glue/silicone but electrically rated and if used right waterproof like heatshrink. I get there is no rating, but a layer if followed by regular electrical tape is vise versa, it's just a nice piece of mind.
As a mechanical repair friend of mine would say (Seen it an 100 times) I've seen it a hundred times. Home owner buries 14/2 NMB works until it doesn't.
Don't run romex through ANY conduit. It's incredibly hard to pull this stuff through. Use separate wires-- THHW or whatever.
I had wondered about that, because at my mother in law's house, an electrician had run PVC conduit from the main panel, through the exterior wall of the garage to outside, up along the outside, then connecting back through the attic above the 2nd story. The family was discussing whether they could use that conduit to wire something through the attic, and the insulation surely looked like NM-B/Romex to me, but everything I kept seeing kept mentioning "no Romex through any conduit" and I kept wondering what was going on.
I wired RVs for years, and someone stored our 12/2 Romex outside... I spent 20 minutes diagnosing a hipot fail on a unit, tracked it to a faulty 12/2 running to the second air conditioner, couldn't find anything wrong, ran a new wire. Cut apart the bad wire and all the paper inside was wet. It wicks in moisture like crazy.
Honestly that wouldn’t cause a problem. Romex gets wet all the time. Doesn’t hurt a thing.
Not sure if I missed it but main reason why it's frowned upon is because you lose amperage overhead. Conduit, especially EMT, can reflect the heat from high amperage back into the wire, so the 12ga-20a rating is for THHN in conduit when it has room to breathe and cool off. When 12ga Romex is in the wall, the insulation holds in heat like EMT does to regular pull wire. Free-air THHN can handle at least an extra amp or two when compared to Romex or EMT, but for obvious reasons we don't do that. For heat buildup reasons, we don't do both. EMT or Romex (except when necessary, like in basements where the Romex is exposed in the ceiling joints and it runs down the wall 🧱 to an outlet) (use fittings at BOTH ends of the EMT)
These are my favorite videos along with how to s. Also the way the fixtures are mounted to the pillars is an issue thats probably why its all getting wet. There is no sealant between the base of the fixture and the stone which will let water in.
More like that, teaching/troubleshooting well appreciated.
(UK viewer) Cool vid dude. Splitting a circuit mid point is often very time consuming and difficult to do unless you spend the time to measure resistance of conductors and estimate length of run etc using the values and it is at best an estimate but can give you a good starting point. Even harder to do on lighting circuits with switch drops etc and who knows how many JB's tucked away. Luckily you only had 4 points on this one to go through so hitting it one by one proved to be the best method. I do love a bit of fault finding but it can seem daunting when you are trying to work out how the previous installer was running on the day.
I really like and appreciate your style and approach to presenting the information in your videos. Very clear and concise, yet real world with a touch of humor. Thank you. You now have a new subscriber.
I’ll open you up to a really good troubleshooting tip for stuff like this If you want to see if you have a shorted line in the ground or if you want to know if you have to start taking fixtures apart. If you go to the hardware store and buy one of those rubberized light sockets this design to hang from the ceiling in a wet environment to screw a bulb into, you know the old-school ones And keep it in your toolbox… If you run into a situation like this and you want an easy way to find a short, what you can do is disconnect the hot lead from the breaker and connect one end of the light socket to the breaker and then wirenut The black wire that you removed from the breaker onto the wire coming off of the portable socket. Then screw in a 60 W incandescent bulb, yes it needs to be incandescent for this purpose LED or CFL will not do. What you are accomplishing by putting the incandescent bulb right at the breaker is basically placing a visiual current limiting resistor at the beginning of the circuit before any short could take place. If that light comes on, that indicates you have a neutral return path either on the neutral or a ground wire back to the panel in some form or fashion. Because electrical current must return to the source in order to complete the circuit for that light to light up. If none of the other lights on the circuit were lighting up before, but this one lights up when you put it in circuit, then logically that would indicate you have an underground short or a short in the wall somewhere in a junction that’s hidden and you’re going to have to investigate.
I think you mentioned it but some clear silicone around the fixture base may have helped. I really appreciate your videos, I was an electrician over 20 years ago before I got into Healthcare, I still do all my own stuff and here and there for family but have lost a ton along the way.
When you said "Stripper lineman's pliers" the picture that popped in my head... oh gawd.
Video quality continues to improve! 👏🏼 Appreciate you. 👍 Keep crushing! 👍
I use the newer klein hybrids (grey/black handle)....by far my favorite hand tool. The only negative, is the smallest hole size to strip wire, is 16 awg solid.
Agreed, I finally switched to the hybrids and stopped carrying my linesman and croc jrs in my tool pouch. It's so nice to use one tool for multiple uses. and I can comfortably twist 4 12 ga. wires together to place under a wire nut with the hybrids. so not many applications where I miss carrying the linesman now. I used to be so stubborn about using multi tools. I hated the feel of them. But now that I realize how convenient they are, and my tool pouch is much lighter to carry. Wouldn't have it any other way. I still keep the other tools in the truck just in case lol
@@andrewbargo1 exactly. Was so use to my basic strippers, and having to pull out the linemans, back n' forth. I've been using the hybrids for a couple years now. We call our linemans "the electrician hammer" lmao
Conduit is wet because of warm, damp air inside the conduit, causing water to condense on the inside of the conduit due to the colder ground (and conduit). Romex also shouldn't be used in conduit because the extra insulation in an enclosed space can overheat.
Things must be different in America, TPS (is that called Romex in the USA?) is fine underground in conduits - it can be rated higher too because the ground is cool and cools the cable.
@@matticussilverman6179 I’m in Canada and only single leads can be pulled in outdoor conduit. From the #0 from the pole underground to a #14 for a 15A 125v circuit, only single sheathed strands are permitted in conduit.
@@markstevens1729 nec in us is same. romex shouldn't be in conduit due to overheating . but in this case with 12 g wire and only 4 lights i can't see it pulling no 20 amps. or 16 amps either at 80%
@@ronblack7870 ... there may be an outlet on that circuit so if part of the branch is #12 then the rest must also be #12.
It's a bitch to pull Romex through conduit if you have any bends. But in this case, it would be a bitch to pull it out to replace it with THHN, like code requires. Hope it never gets inspected!
Buchanan's became my favorite way to put wires together. Sometimes if there were any chance of moisture I could finish the connection by filling it with silicone. Eliminates that corrosion in joints which can drop voltages and heat up which is not good for compressor motors like outdoor refrigerators. Plus if used correctly they will not looses due to vibration. A good hard crimp on the wires insuring mechanical and electrical connections.
the simple rule of thumb is never use romex (nm) outside the envelope of a conditioned building. uf cable is approved for wet, damp locations & for direct burial. pvc conduit is also great for outdoor installs. pulling uf cable thru conduit is a lot of work, & unecessary. 3m makes gel filled wirenuts for outdoor use. wirenuts filled with vaseline work good in a pinch. in all my 50+ years as an electrician & electrical inspector, i never had the owner of a high end house wanting to cut corners by using sub-standard wiring practices. the nec, (national electric code) is the minimum standard for wiring. always feel free to go above & beyond the code.
I worked for 38 years as a construction electrician, I started wiring houses, I wired over 250 homes, most were very large homes, and then I went into doing commercial work, I have worked on some very big projects, airports, hospitals, Schools prisons jails and some very large buildings, so I have a good idea of how things work. What kills me is how a lot of people just don't understand how much WORK goes into doing electrical work?, it's really hard work you must work in all kinds of places and conditions, AND!!!, people don't seem to understand why Electrical work is so expensive, just go out and buy a bag of wire nuts today and you will see why it cost so much. I do my own work at home/farm today and just to add a few plugs and switches will cost a few hundred dollars even if I do it myself ) : ?
A bag of wire nuts in my neck of the woods is $140. I’m sorry but that makes me Sick to my stomach
In 35 years I've never seen an incandescent lamp cause a short, I have had them cause an arc fault. I am completely with you on the superiority of led lighting, but sometimes I wonder how some of your surmises come from.
I agree when a bulb burns out it don't short a short is working problems this guy I would not trust to do any work on my house or garage ...
I had the exact same question. Both sides of the filament have to be attached or there would be no light. Broken filament touches itself can't be a short, it is just simply open.
Haha true I've never seen that either in my 15 years
It's called running up the bill. milking the customer. I only get paid if i'm working and theres no more customers today so I'm gonna stretch this one out.
@@iamthundermug I charge by the job not by the hour you charge by the hour when you don't know what your doing
Shout out to this Man paying it forward spreading knowledge to fellas who want to learn or expanding on skills
1:58 " A lot of times it shows up as a short circuit." I don't know what's going on out your way, but after 20 years now, I can't remember the last time I saw that as being an issue. I was very glad you told people that you usually start in the middle. That's a HUGE time saver on longer runs that have multiple devices. Why did you NOT at least caulk around the base of the fixtures???? If there's another issue, most home owners will only remember and understand ONE THING. That is you were the last person to work on these lights. Not to mention it was you that went through all of the trouble to explain how this is not ok because it's a damp or wet location.
I agree with Joshua. The most likely water incursion is at the fixture base. I might cut up an old bicycle tube, and wedge it into the gap. Also, I might advise the client that LEDs are available in that candelabra mount, and likely in his color preference. You could install them for the client, and get their gratitude (= repeat business).
These are awesome videos! I love these service call videos, they help a ton! If you could also add info about how you bid your jobs or how you determine how much to charge your customers, that would make your awesome videos even more awesome I think. But other than that, keep up the great work, these videos are really great!
The ending tho!!!..😂🤣😂🤣 SUPER EPIC!!!!..😂😂🎯💪🏾💯
great to see another vid man!!!! this is again a super vid. you do a superb job on these
The technical terms to your debug approach is Occam's razor followed by binary search problem solving (split in half). For all those that sat through the video, the answer to the video title is at 7:14 is the fault, and electrical code at 7:40 (note to author, use KZhead timeline chapters to improve content quality). Thanks for making the video, I had this wet question buried in my mind for some time.
Butt splices also aren't really great for solid conductors so the tape works.
I’ve been on a couple “so ready to get out of there” jobs.
We all have..."don't hate the player, hate the game" kind of a day lol
The part that is holding the two wires that holds the filiment is called a post. Living in Australia with different codes, stranded and solid wire, 240 volts etc. I still find your videos very informative and well put together. By the way ive been an electrician for 65 years.
Great video I love seeing the stuff from the field
its going through cement regardless its a wet location water goes through cement, UF is not more costly so, they should have just ran UF
uf is more costly than romex.
It’s definitely more costly but still, yes it should be used to stay code compliant.
Water goes through cement?
@@mrseanpride6449 asphinctersayswhat?
@@mrseanpride6449 yes
In. All my years, never heard of an incandescent bulb causing a short,
Not from a broken filament. But I've had the glass bulb work loose from the edison base, and if someone rotates it bulb, the two conductors can short.
i have actually had someone tell me they had two high dollar LED bulbs burst into flames, and burn the fixture up
en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Shunt_%28electrical%29
I got my first car for $50, because of a shorted bulb. The left rear running/brake light bulb had shorted between sections. The left turn signals didn't work, if the running lights or headlights were on. Also, you could turn on the running lights, flip the lever for a left turn and play the radio without a key. It was a '61 Ford Galaxy, with a tube radio, so it quickly discharged the battery. My uncle had taken it to the Ford dealership, and they gave up, so he sold the 10 year old car to my dad. He was really pissed off that I repaired it for 29 cents!The short was between two of the support wires, inside the bulb, and the defective bulb was likely installed by the Ford garage since my uncle wasn't mechanically inclined.
I really like that you refer to the code book which many others don't. You're also an excellent teacher.
Thank you!
Just found the channel and had to sub. I love watching solid tradesmen doing what they do best
Putting tape on it definitely seems like a hack, when you know that tape will get inevitably get wet, dry out and fall off and the short will reappear in probably just a few years. You absolutely should've used heat shrinking for a more permanent fix.
Incandescent bulbs are especially useful when running a generator or inverter because they create a resistive load on the system and convert noise into heat.
I use an incandescent bulb as a poor man's synce light to sync two generators to run in parallel.. An led build will not do this.
noise into heat? Uhm what?
@@sergeig685 AC Inverters and generators do not usually produce a perfectly clean and smooth sine wave. If you hook up an oscilloscope to the line and neutral, you will typically see "stair-stepping" , "saw teeth" or noise on the curve Putting a restive load on the generator plays the same role as the fuzzy cover on a microphone or the vibration damper between a motor and chassis. Resistance generates heat, be it a light bulb, a toaster or the brakes on your car.
@@946towguy2 ah, you did not mean "noise" literally . Yes, incandescents are far less finicky with irregular or unstable power supplies.
@@sergeig685 What we perceive as sound is oscillations in a medium being picked up by our eardrums. If you converted the oscilloscope output into an audio wave form or connected a speaker coil to the mains you will hear what the ac sounds like. , A true sine wave at 60 hz is just above B1 with 432hz tuning. Impurities in the sine wave will sound like distortion or noise. Adding a resistive load or a ballast can attenuate some of that noise, while smoothing spikes and dips so that there is less risk to sensitive electronics.
Fun fact in my lifetime I have never had an incandescent bulb short as far as I can remember except for the Christmas tree style micro bulbs. I've had the filament break and make contact then incinerate but always blow clear. There is a couple of useful remaining of the incandescent bulbs, heat it's a very efficient way of providing a little heat like say to keep a well house warm to prevent freezing or to keeping traffic lights clear of ice and snow... Technology connections... And I generally prefer them for outside lights. The market should be adopting LED, we shouldn't be forced to adopt them.
They make specialized incandescent bulbs for rough service and long life. Many municipalities use them for street lights and I use them in my drop lights (which are seldom used anymore). Also used on board ships and large equipment.
Fellow Sparky here. Just ordered my 2020 code book. Long overdue so thank you Dustin.
Hell ya my friend, enjoy reading...lol...though to be honest, you may get more enjoyment out of biting your own arm off 🤣
DO YOU KNOW IDEAL SAYS NOT TO TWIST WIRES WITH PLIERS THIS LETS NUTS COME LOOSE NUT IS TO TWIST WIRES AT LEAST 3 TURND OF WIRE TO PASS INSPECTION THIS COME FROM SALES REP AND THERE INSTRUCTIONS . CHIGAGO LICENCED ELECTRIAN 40 YRS Have found many loose nuts on wires were twisted with pliers .
@@richardrussell4288 I don’t get why you’d twist with pliers first, it’s a waste of time, when the wire nuts twist them for you (in addition to your reasoning).
@@richardrussell4288 interesting! So many people twist beforehand with the lineman's pliers. Of course, if you overdo the twisting, it creates metal fatigue and weakens the splice. At the other extreme, I've seen wire nuts that weren't torqued enough to keep them in-place over time. I prefer the wire nuts with two wings which gives you more leverage. Afterwards, I tug on the individual wires to make sure they're not loose. Some people wrap tape over the wire nut, which I think is overkill.
THHN isn't listed for wet locations either, but most are dual-labelled as THWN as well. :)
As a homeowner I found that out . I searched forever for some THWN at Lowe’s and Homedepot . Even The helpers at the stores always told me they didn’t carry THWN. Then one day I picked up a roll of THHN and read the label and it said also THWN!!!!
isnt romex THHN?
@@SgtJoeSmith Yes
@@Nunya_Business_ thanks. i thought so. im a 30 year fairly experienced novice with automotive and household electrical. im still learning more though.
@@SgtJoeSmith THHN and THWN are the individual coated conductors for running inside conduit. They dont have the yellow or white sheathing that most assoc with Romex (brand name) or NM (non metallic) cable.
One of your best videos yet. This style is great.
I never really had anyone teach me how to troubleshoot in the right way, just a lot of error eventually turned into a streak of success. When you understand how the electricity moves, when you see the dumbest little things lead to the trips and the funky voltages, and if you get sent to a lot of troubleshooting calls, eventually all decent electricians will naturally go into doing exactly what he documents in the video. I wish this type pf content was more widely available a few years ago, this is good stuff.
"What is it, comment below?" It's called a filament and it's made of tungsten.
He's talking about the post that the filaments hang from.
The tungsten filaments are connected to lead-in or contact wires, that come in through the stem. There are also support wires coming from the stem to support longer filaments. The lead-in wires are often connected to the terminal contacts by fuse lead in wires, most of you can guess what those might be for.
@@SF-tb4kb Even with abuse that won't blow a typical lighting circuit breaker. Those tiny leads inside a bulb would vaporize carrying a 15 amp/115vac (1725 watt) feed if they touched. He's in lala land thinking (saying) they could blow a breaker and not burn up and blow open. Whatever!
@@zacharythebeau163 The posts that hold the filaments, I have always called "stand-offs." There might be a technical name for them, but any time it comes up in conversation (not very often) people know what I mean.
@@zacharythebeau163 it's the Filament Support
The glass 'rod' is often called the stem. The two filament end support wires can be called lead-in wires. The rest of the support wires are, well, support wires. Thanks for the great videos!
When I was doing service, a lot of electricians I worked with liked to pull Romex from the hand hole of a pole light to the fixture just because it was easier than pulling individual conductors. One of them was even a master electrician. Somehow it didn’t occur to them that they could use cable and stay code compliant if they just used UF cable.
In reality it'll work fine as long as it's protected from UV sunlight. And Romex is much easier to strip than UF.
@@andyandy4459 this is not really the forum for hacks. Are you lost?
@@RB-xv4si well he’s right. And the insulation on the UF doesn’t have the same ambient temperature rating as romex or THWN. It will crumble with the heat from the metal halide or high pressure sodium lights. Nowadays with everything going to LED, it’s probably not a problem anymore. Oh, and I’m a master electrician and I’ve done it before.
@@electricaf365 thwn is fine for wet locations but it’s not ok to run into an HPS or MH fixture because it’s only rated 75*C. You need to splice to higher rated conductors prior to entering the fixture. Same goes for UF cable. Ok to run until you get to the pole light fixture. Congratulations on being a master electrician. I’m a journeyman.
@@RB-xv4si which means nothing by the way. Being a journeyman. Being a master electrician. Means nothing. A well trained monkey could become either if those.
Best aspect of this channel and your teachings is the Use of the Code Book . That is amazingly good.. affirms what you say and assert with Evidence . Thats what i like to see . Not some bloke talking but Proiving what theyre saying is correct . Cheers mate, keep up the great work .
No reason for an incandescent bulb? Try putting an LED into your oven. Other than that though, I agree.
Incandescent? No. But I like Halogen light. Damn hot though. Strip type LED looks cool too, but not the same. LED just doesn't have great looking 3000k light.
Point taken, but there are also LED bulbs designed for ovens.
@@hgbugalou Nope, there are not. Heat cause LED bulbs to decay. An incandescent bulb is quite happy in all that heat but LEDs are electronics and prefer their heat kept well away from them.
@@roycsinclair sorry dude. You’re plain wrong. I’m a manager of an Electrical Wholesaler here in The UK. We stock and sell LED lamps for ovens and cooker hoods… very common if you know where to look
@@garyowen201 I cannot find them on Amazon AND every article I can find (even written in the last few months) say No WAY! There are some that say "range" but those are NOT for positioning inside an oven since the electronics WILL melt and burn in an oven. In short, provide a link. I wouldn't be totally unhappy to be proven wrong but until I can find one that IS labeled as for use in an oven I'll say you shouldn't even try.
If I have to tape something up outdoors or where it’s wet I use self amalgamating tape. if it has to be colour indicated I wrap over it.
Great work! Only thing I would have done differently is pull all the fixtures and ohm them out, set them nice and neat to the side so they can't be broken (glass) and then disconnect everything. Ohm out each cable at each fixture, find the fault. Cut the wiring and use either a weather proof wirenut or an insulated tap. That tape will unravel.
Keep up the good work, I'm enjoying all theses videos on the daily
If you siliconed around the base of the light it would most likely keep the water out. It is most likely where the water is coming in.
Water coming in wasn’t the problem
No matter what you do water will find a way in, not to mention condensation, I know this sounds stupid and it's most likely against code but I always drill small drain holes in my junction boxes, I also always use single conductors suitable for wet locations in conduit
@@gurjindersingh199 and grease all outdoor wire nuts with noalox or dielectric grease.
million dollar home “this guy doesnt wanna pay to bring this up to code” seems typical too much money spent on the yacht and golf clubs
That's how they afford the home. Rich people are misers. Poor people spend money on junk food, liquor and cigarettes.
I mean he said he would have to cut drywall and that might not help much so it could easily be like $5,000 or $10,000 if they have to break up the foundation and repair which for 4 lights it's just not worth it
@@james10739 Replace with some sort of Solar/Battery powered lighting, if the outlet is not needed. Even if wealthy, homeowner's mason could be 2 years out on availability. I know an ornamental iron guy... no business cards, no van graphics.... he works for 5 families only.... in order..... so your project is likely 1-3 years wait. Wealthy people spend on their own stuff. But busting everything up sucks. If the guy that built that outside space made a plan... (I still have the carpenters drawings of my kitchen. I wish his work was as good as his ability to make renderings). A tradesman who assumes wealthy people do not pay big money for their stuff is a handyman. Identifying the short, and making a temp repair is fine, but I would sell client on the proper fix, if they wanted additional outlets, or wiring to a firepit all as part of a deck renovation. And if the guy is selling the house in a year.... "good 'nuff the girls he goes out with" (Yeah, stole that one from AvE.. he can not sue me, without showing his face! )
@@SF-tb4kb right 😂 meanwhile insurance low balls or denies every claim of mine...forget taxation insurance is the new scam of the government
@@SF-tb4kb i just got screwed from the freeze in midwest power and gas cycles controlled outages insurance left me with the damages on busted copper pipes even though it was declared a state of emergency car insurance low balled us on two hail damage claims on brand new vehicles they never notify of lapsed insurance....the list goes on seems more like a scam to me
while not a licensed electrician i do most of my own and the family's wiring needs the wildest system i ever worked on was in an old church in Mexico ; the fuse box was in upside down( fuse was live all the time), the wiring to the chandeliers was lamp cord and were 20 feet up and we didn't have a ladder that would reach!!! So we nailed 2x4s to the straight ladder put 2 ropes on and 4 guys holding the ropes while i went up to wire in the lights . I did make them pull the meter to turn the fuse box right side up tho!!!! One of the coolest things that we did was run electric up to the stage/ pulpit area , the building was originally a sugar cane plant and made of 3 FEET thick blocks of limestone . To hide the conduit we cut a grove in the wall with a circular saw and a carbide blade. The conduit was held in with nails driven in a V over it and then plastered over. But the conduit bulged out some (roll pipe ) and we were having trouble getting it to stay in. An older man came over and showed us (we didn't speak Spanish and he didn't speak English), he picked up a trowel full of mortar, bobbed it up and down a couple of times to settle it and then swung it to splat right in the grove! the pipe was sucked in to the grove and we just had to smooth the top over a bit. The Moral of the story we Both learn some new things
FYI - my years of tracing building intercom and fire alarm circuits.. I would like to pass this on to you. I would have gone first to the middle fixture, then ohmed it back to the panel and the other way. which ever way you find the problem, then go half way again, that way. When you have 200 fixtures connected to one zone, this approach saves a lot of time. I saw you went to the first fixture. You would have been better off at the middle one first..same outcome, but closer to the problem.
Isn’t that what he just said? Start in the middle and cut the circuit in half?
@@electricaf365 must have missed that
1:05 Googling says either "stem" or "arbor"
I'm in my boxers in bed and my code book is in the car. That's a big ask bud.
Im in the same boat bro 😆
I don't own a code book😂
you have gained another sub... i just watched three of your videos straight through and i enjoyed every little bit... i am a fire alarm service tech and inspector in philadelphia and i can relate. i have some crazy stories of my own.... one had to deal with a short on my LowVotage wire and lights not working on a wing of an apartment complex... :)
Been working 13 hours today and come home and watch this. Ha. You give good advice and troubleshoot well. Had a job where the concrete guy and carpenter got together (you know where this is heading) to install floor receptacles in New deck addition. Hmm. Let's use steel bx in direct burial in dirt and concrete, with no fittings, into metal gangable boxes, and cover with a wp cover. Lasted 4 months. Then he calls me, his regular electrician. He's still waiting on me 2 months later. Last of list you go. I was thinking your job install looked about 10 years old then you said it. I really should record what I do, too. Sometimes the first line item on invoice should read "#1 Looked for weird shit.", as you said! How many times I've come to troubleshoot and a store owner says they already checked '_____' and that is exactly where fault is. The light bulb shorting you said...many electricians don't even know this. Keep doing what you do!
I like the troubleshooting videos.. hope to see more of these.
hahaha the end was so funny hahaha . dustin your the man
isnt that the best part.. when the lights go on and they all work
You are the bomb at explaining yourself. Had some navy guys that could explain anything to you and it would be crystal clear. Nice job sir!
The electrical work was probably all done by the landscape contractor that did the patio. That's why the NMT is simply stubbed with no box, and below the finish surface so it can be sure to catch all the water that flows under the (not gasketed) fixture bases.
You don’t need a box in that situation, but you’re right, it was most likely done by the mason
On the topic of incandescent lighting, what about when you have really old wiring (original wiring in a house built in 72) and LED flickers in every socket, but incandescent works perfectly fine. Any thoughts on the cause? My best guess is voltage or amperage fluctuation within the wiring
Have you checked the voltage? With how little power LEDs use, amperage wouldn't be an issue. I don't know how to test it, but it should be 120ish volts @ 60hz, maybe it's not at 60hz and that's effecting the LEDs. Hopefully somebody with more expertise will chime in.
Also if you have any dimmer switches that are original to the incandescent bulbs that will cause a flicker, they are not rated for LED bulbs
Voltage may be too high.
go with the spirit of the code. this is a wet/damp environment, the cable is sitting in water for substantial period of time
You should also include unprotected Romex run in a soffit where squirrels can build nests around the Romex then use those chompers to cause a spark. My boat builder neighbor did just this and the fire cost him 400 hundred thousand bucks. Afterward, he asked me, " shouldn't the breaker trip?" I said, possibly, but the spark comes first.
Fun fact made me spit out my coffee. Thanks for that. Appreciate you going through your trouble shooting methods.
My favorite part and why I subscribed. The troubleshooting and the NEC referrals.
It's always the last thing you check because you stop checking once you've found it.
Beautiful! ;)
Nonsense, keep checking so you can charge more.
You never stop checking until you have completed the JOB and everything is working as it should , at that time you pack up, then clean up and leave.
@@SavedByFaithInJesus Yes we did and in some places we worked it was cleaner than when we got there.
Was wondering what the code book said about this at the time of installation. Codes are constantly changing.
Its a gray area always has been. IMO Romex in outdoor conduit is just sloppy always has been. It ends up getting stuck way more often than thhn, that's the real issue in the damp location. Dudes light shorted out because sloppy work with a razor knife and the wire is now stuck in the conduit. Guess it's Jack hammer time. Romex gets wet for long periods it becomes sticky add the smurf tube and its basically fused in the conduit.
NM cable has never been listed for use in wet locations.
@@jasonj4865 smurf tube wasn’t even invented
@@jkK-lw9lu not following. Are you saying smurf tube didn't exist when the code was written? My point is simply whether or not it is permissible by code it falls outside of best practices.
@@jasonj4865 1980 was when smurf tube was listed, and has never been listed for outdoor locations
Great troubleshooting - at15:34 I would have used Voltage Rated Tubing or heat shrink in layers (with or without heat as required) to slide all the way down, past the trouble area where it's impossible to trickle-tape it properly down in that ratty looking rust hole. Be careful with those neutrals - they can kill unexpectedly. BTW, a quick way to discover there's a shorted filament somewhere (usually in a socket-down bulb) is to blow up a light dimmer! The dimmer's Triac acts like an expensive fast acting fuse.
Great content! Trouble shooting is great for step by step. Keep it up Dustin!