Ancient Rome didn't leave us written music. How can we know what its music sounded like?
homo sapiens in canada speaks to a recording device about music stuff.mpeg
homo sapiens in canada speaks to a recording device about music stuff.mpeg
We often think that the only way to study historical music is having access to written scores and notated compositions, but that is similar to saying that all we can learn of Latin is its quotes and sentences written in Antiquity. The reason we can learn Latin is because we have indications and sources other than quotes that give us an insight into its grammar and rules-and Latin can be reconstructed by learning its rules, rather than studying its quotes only. Music works similarly: some ancient cultures have left us with sources detailing their music’s rules and grammar, and therefore its music can be known to us without even having written scores.
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homo sapiens in canada speaks to a recording device about music stuff.mpeg We often think that the only way to study historical music is having access to written scores and notated compositions, but that is similar to saying that all we can learn of Latin is its quotes and sentences written in Antiquity. The reason we can learn Latin is because we have indications and sources other than quotes that give us an insight into its grammar and rules-and Latin can be reconstructed by learning its rules, rather than studying its quotes only. Music works similarly: some ancient cultures have left us with sources detailing their music’s rules and grammar, and therefore its music can be known to us without even having written scores.
Farya bro great video on the Roman music my doubts are cleared 😊 And I've a suggestion for you can you please make a combination of Epic Iranian & Chinese music to show the adventures of the Last Sasanian Prince "Peroz III" and his nobles and family members in the Tang dynasty China. (Peroz III the son of Shahanshah Yazdegerd Shahriyarzad moved to China asking for Chinese help against the Caliphate not only that some of those descendants of Peroz III later moved to Korea and Japan).
Dude! We live so close and both reconstruct ancient music. Let's be friends, maybe? I used to live in the northern island, but now I moved to the south one to be closer to my university. (My transits used to be 2 hours long.) I've lately reconstructed metrical or near-metrical rhythms for some of Jerome's Latin psalms. But my focus is Biblical Hebrew intonation and rhythm following its vocalization and prosodic orthography.
@@Shahanshah101 when was that? Never heard about this before!
@@Yamikaiba123we're not geographically close but I'm always up for chatting nonsense about ancient music...
The thumbnail proves my theory that you and Ariana Grande were together in a Roman band and now you are trolling us as time travellers. On a more serious note, I really love these kinds of videos. They make music theory even more interesting for me to study.
You’ve uncovered our ancient conspiracy damnit
Hearing Farya say "боли ме курац" isn't something I expected, but now that I've heard it, I don't know how I lived my whole life without it.
I’m so glad you heard me say this totally polite and family friendly phrase
what is funny I'm polish and understood that sentence xD
Identical phrase in slovenian. Two birds one stone :D
@@faryafarajifacts yo
It's only right that Farya's introduction should reference “the sands of time,” as one does as a _Prince of Persia._
The exiled persian prince living in Canada, amasing wealth via making music in order to reclaim his throne.
I noticed it too and I already knew the Farya could actually be the Prince from Prince of Persia because of how they both look suspiciously similar.
Prince of Persia would probably be a good reference for Roman and Greek music because it was released right around time of second triumvirate. It’s a miracle they were able to find a publisher
Man, I fucking love the snowy mountains of Zimbabwe.
In this Zimbabwe Montana, several peoples are missed. One of them Zaid Dada since 2014. There is spirit in this mountain who kidnappe human.
That and its snowy albine forests, ripe with Zimbabwe maple syrup
@@faryafaraji Truly the most lovely place in all of Africa.
What a lovely video about...homo sapiens in Canada speaks to a recording device about music stuff.mpeg
I have rewatched the video and I can confirm that it is indeed a homo sapiens in Canada speaking to a recording device about music stuff.mpeg
As a banjo player from “ Appalachia“ if I merely played a straight, basic melody on my banjo, it would be very dull. So to make such a limiting instrument interesting you have to embellish. Hammer ons , pull offs, grace, notes, and that’s just for the left hand. On the right hand, there’s so many different techniques. I myself playing old time way use my bare fingers and I may pluck strum smack slap roll . This stuff would’ve not been written down. After listening to your videos, I’ve been going back, listening to old recordings of the banjo players from the mountains, and you can hear in their singing that they are not adhering to the standard notation.
Thanks for the example, I didn’t know it even applied to American folk music!
I know it's not the main point of this video but the bit about medieval European music having qualities we associate with Arabic music today is blowing my mind in a good way.
I found some reconstructions a few years ago (sorry, no links) and my first reaction was "WTF? Saracen influence or something?". :) So yeah, not what we think of as European at all.
Facts, mediaeval music sounds a lot like Arabic music, but don't take it as an insult, take it as a compliment, because I love arabic music ❤
Really good video! I really liked the point on relying on literature and descriptions more than notation. There's a similar case to be made for ancient Indian music: the treatises give very rich and detailed descriptions, while the notation (of which there's hardly any) are very bare bones and are meant to just be "guides" for musicians who are well versed in the theory and practice. Even today, Indian music can't really be recreated accurately with notation since it uses a lot of improvisation, microtones and embellishments, all of which aren't easy to capture on paper :)
That’s an extremely good point, and it illustrates one of the foundational problems with the belief that notation = awareness of a music tradition: it’s extremely Eurocentric in its premise. It takes for granted that 18th century European music is a universal model and that all other music works similarly, but Hindustani Classical music, Ottoman Classical or even medieval European music don’t need or require notation the way Mozart and Bach do. What I think alot of musicologists in the 19th century missed due to a eurocentric bias is that many musical traditions derive their complexity and function from elements that aren’t written down, but this boggles the mind of anyone who has only had a Western Classical musical education since its so intimately tied to standart notation.
@@faryafaraji exactly, so true! And I appreciate the work you are doing to make people aware of this, so kudos to you! 🤗🎉
Given the frequency at which Farya takes "Douce dame jolie" as an example of medieval piece, I am surprised he has not uploaded his own version yet !! ;-)
That intro was simply awesome!! Keep up the good work!
Thanks alot!
The old style of singing that is more melismatic is still alive in Ireland. It's called Sean nós (old habit, or old style). The amount of "ornamentation" is different in different regions and from person to person.
We stan a man that knows to appreciate ancient humanities
I've heard modern versions of Palastinalied but this is ridiculous. But seriously, great video. The examples you use are really useful and make these topics more approachable
Reject 13th century instrumentation, embrace 2000’s Linkin Park crusader music
@@faryafaraji Crusader beats after the Vatican II council do hit different
Les beaux paysages de Laval, merveilleux
Laval c’est la traduction française de Valinor wesh
Gotta chime in here - Oblivion's map was indeed generated by an algorithm, but only as a base for later editing by hand. Oblivion's game world aside from random enemies and loot is completely static, it's not generated every time you start up the game, just loaded up - and trees are always going to be in the same spot, for everyone. The point still stands, many games like roguelikes, strategy games or Minecraft have a procedurally generated world.
feeling jackson crawford
also was that a loon at 2:21
These intros are getting stranger lol 😂
I know nothing about music theory, but you make these videos interesting and understandable. Keep up the great work! 👏
Speaking as a Serb, you just made my day!
Farya! I envy your students! You are a masterful musician, a multifaceted scholar, and profound thinker rolled into one. And if we had the fact that you are damn fantastic speaker, how can you not be one of the best teachers anyone could hope for!
super educational video !! the comparison with learning ancient languages i found particularly helpful and insightful
Wonder how the music will be like a thousand years from now? At least the future will have written music and singing from our lifetime.
@Farya Faraji Thank you - and I mean it - Thank you for that eye opening work. You've answered many questions I've had so far about ancient and medieval music. Looking forward for your next master pieces and listening to those you already kindly share with us.
Another great video. Thank you from a Finnish songwriter, historian, theologian. Moreover i appreciate the way your videos come together after presenting the body of evidence chosen. Interesting brainwork, I love the way you work upon history and the philosophy we call music.
I was worried the whole time the wolf will jump you. Actually, I was kinda expecting a gray spray-painted Cookie will charge you mid video. The fauna in Zimbabwe is no joke after all.
Zimbabwe Cookie < Cookie
Zimbabwe Cookie < Cookie
Dude, where are you? In a Peter Jackson film set??? It is effin beautiful!
Farya, wanted you to know that you made me discover so many things about ancient music and theory. Didn't know music history could be fun and interesting. Please, show us your instrument collection, where they're from, their sound (especially because they looks similar), how it should be played but also how do you use it, what if someone wants to play eastern instruments, etc. Thanks to you guitar (and western music) seems boring or too much utilised. thanks!
gotta love the wolves howling in the background. its a vibe.
that's a really accurate video and you are able to communicate with people that don't study music theory with excellent contents
Thanks alot!
nice video once again, this is a question you dont ever actually think about but when you hear roman music but when you actually hear it, it makes you wonder alot, Greetings from Laval!
Damn i am impressed by your knowledge and ability to communicate musical knowledge, love your shout out to Simon Roaper:)
The piece you play at the 1:40 mark by Synaulia is one of the most macabre/haunting pieces of attempted reconstructed music I've ever heard, like a funeral march evoking the spirits of the Greco-Roman underworld.
Love your intelligent videos.
that modern version of palastinalied is dope tho ngl. I wish you would make the modern version of those songs, that's gonna be interesting. Anyways, good video as always, love from the middle east
Revisiting this awesome video, again. I don't know how I forgot to like it the first time, so here's a thumbs up on me! 👍
My mind stopped functioning when I heard that Pop song to the tune of Palestinlied
@@servantofaeie1569 no, he just did what you described but it is in yhe style of a modern pop song, but not an actual pop song.
I've unintentionally re-composed specific traditional melodies (from tradition-branches that I had never heard) for specific Hebrew psalms, simply from studying both the prosodic orthography (full time for a couple years), like a combined accent-punctuation, from which they are recited... as well as binge-listening to the recitations of other tradition-branches for Hebrew recitation. I had internalized the art-form, shared what I thought were my original, improvised melodies to Facebook, and then told by a Jew from Yemen that my version was bringing them back to their childhood. When I looked the psalm up, I also found that my melodic motion corresponded to the Jerusalem-Sephardi tradition as well.
Every time farya turns the camera round I’m half expecting some random guy to be standing behind him in the middle of the woods😅
Farya bro great video on the Roman music my doubts are cleared 😊 And I've a suggestion for you can you please make a combination of Epic Iranian & Chinese music to show the adventures of the Last Sasanian Prince "Peroz III" and his nobles and family members in the Tang dynasty China. (Peroz III the son of Shahanshah Yazdegerd Shahriyarzad moved to China asking for Chinese help against the Caliphate not only that some of those descendants of Peroz III later moved to Korea and Japan).
Hi Farya. I think what you're also talking about is timbre, which I see as a combination of many musical parameters. Codifying and visualising timbre for electronic composition, to achieve as much control of the outcome as possible, was my dad's thesis (Dr David Gray). This strikes me as a good way to study ancient music too. One of the things that I find captivating about ancient music is that it can be such a visceral insight into the sound world of long past contexts and places. Amazing work dude, thankyou.
Would love to chat further x
i love the backgrounds. i so wanna visit.
21:30 - Then what you are saying that person is accurately recreating a historically authentic piece of music for themselves. I could go and time travel to the Middle Ages, compose my music there with not a lot of pressure to find the instruments as compared to the Modern era, and boom. My song is already there - an original melody. That is as you say, recreating a piece of history.# 21:50 There was a book I read which had time travel, but it had this divergence - different eras basically met each other. You had Napoleon's expedition - the French troops in the city of Ancient Alexandria (No joke) and Ancient Egyptians meeting with Ancient Greeks. The French troops began to sing La Marsielle, but the way the writers did it, they made the Egyptians also do the French anthem, but with their instruments, and it was a very weird composition. Crazy scene but I think it's exactly what you're trying to describe. I will find that book.
In Stravinsky's "Poetics of Music" he mentions something about the Greco/Roman world dividing musical composition and instruments into 2 main categories of Apollo and Dionysus. (He doesn't mention his source, but I don't doubt him). Apollo's camp was the 'objective mind' and Dionysus the 'subjective mind'. So it's intellect vs raw emotion. String instruments like the harp were 'cold' and of Apollo and wind instruments with more infections were considered Dionysus. Just on this idea alone, we can piece together a probable use of the modes in a theatrical context. To be continued...
I did not know that fact about Oblivion trees. Wild.
Lol, that does explain when years ago a Chinese coworker played some of her favorite music, and I immediately said, "Wow, that sounds just like country music."
It makes sense that you could theoretically construct ancient music like ancient languages, really interesting point, language and music are closely connected to each other as auditory symbols of human culture...
In this languages example, the Avestan is good one. We only have some text, and from that text we must create grammar etc. Maybe we have some text about this language, but in general those are late, and more about translating to another language, so in general we only have original texts (Gathas e.g.) and must analyze them to create grammar. And it's hell difficult xD.
I really like your videos, do you have a book about the history of music that you would recommend ?
Well the history of music at large is a very broad subject so to get quality books one should look for more specific elements, but given the subject matter here Martin L. West’s book on Ancient Greek music is a great read for beginners and I use it frequently as a source :)
On the intro: You already did your rendition of the "Palästinalied", that had that melody of the start, but do you plan on doing "lanquan li jorn", from which the Palästinalied (probably) got its melody from?
What's kinda funny is that today, the Phrygian and Dorian modes have swapped names.
Farja Faraji, famous Zimbabwean Pop artist.
I'd like to see a video about Sumerian music. Peter Pringle plays it for us, but it would be good to discuss it.
"You need to get into the specifics" Very well said. People often disregard the depths science needs to go in order to gain enough confidence to draft even the first hypothesis. Let alone forming a functional theory or even claiming an explanation to be correct. All research begins with a huge pile of shite, a massive hoarding of information, the next few seemingly lifetimes you spend biting through them, eliminating almost 90% of your sources as inadequate, and then turn your attention to that 10% remaining. repeating the process. but this time with hoarding to that 10% relevant sources. This goes on quite a bit, until you reach what me and my coworkers call a golden vein. A line of information a the first glance so promising, it could lead to a breakthrough. ironically though, you usually come across a new information whilst following the golden vein which obliterates whatever hope you had left for reaching its end. science is pain, and it makes you feel like everything in this world is turned against you. But all the more the good parts of it shine. Because you get to look back on your results, pat your self on the back, and say satisfied, I suffered for this. I toiled for this. Piece of me is infused in the result I have reached. - Just to get set back to reality by a c*nt bringing in new orders.
Aw, beautiful Zimbabwe
The end is hilarious.😅
That was an amazing explanation! You have also succeeded in doublicating the speach of the best English speakers.
Farya keeps talking about medieval music even though we all can hear this wolf in the background. Chad
God I love this shit
Just an idea: What you are describing as the essence of a musical tradition seems analogous to what we mean when we say, "in the style of _____." Ornamentation, juxtaposition of elements, and motivic development are all aspects of what we call "style," and style (or perhaps "genre") transcends repertoire. One of the things that I have found frustrating for years is the idea that learning about a kind of music boils down to assimilating its repertoire. Give me the treatise on Hittite music too.
It snows in Zimbabwe 🧐
Man, Zimbabwe is sure pretty this time of the year
That thumbnail caught me off guard.
Improvised ornamentation did survive until the early 20th century when the dictates of the mid to late 19th century finally prevailed. It's too bad too because a lot of the operatic repertoire depended on it. You can still find treatises from various singers and composers throughout the various time periods that teach and explain how it worked but rarely was it recorded on paper.
Reminder that if we only look at musical notation the song “Rasputin” is medieval middle eastern music…
I've gotta wonder, though: what temperament did the Romans use? Were they still using Pythagorean Tuning or was there another one they used which had been developed? I know in the Middle Ages/Renaissance they started going all out about temperaments and now we've settled on Equal Temperament aka 12EDO, which erases SO MUCH of the microtonality inherent in pythagorean tuning like the wolf tones, so they're not the same "notes" at all, especially if they're tuning to different pitches in Hertz. Even the standard A has gone up substantially in recent centuries from like... A415 to modern A440. Like you said, this is a general video, but .... I'm no general viewer lol so I'm curious.
Pythagorean and Just Intonation were the ones used in Antiquity, although that distinction wasn’t fundamental to the ancients. Western music today cares a whole alot about the dissonances and the wolf tones mainly because of harmony; this wouldn’t be a matter of much concern for a tradition completely devoid of harmony.
yeah, I mean... plus if all you have is pythagorean and just (rather than werkmeister I, II, III, equal, and a bajillion ways to equally divide the octave) AND you're more temporally/linearly-oriented rather than harmonically oriented, you'll be more likely to just be like "so... alpha or beta?" rather than getting into the nitty gritty and having a conference about it with the chorus-master before the beginning of the dionysia festival.@@faryafaraji
Haha well put
Thanks. Given what I understand about the way hearing functions, it stands to reason that cultures tend towards certain interval patterns. I read a paper years ago that made the claim that dissonance upsets babies. It was postulated that the complexity of the nerve impulses and/or the "shapes" of the vibrations on the ear drum were uncomfortable. I can imagine this combined with some form of acoustic "pareidolia" leading many human cultures down similar musical paths. I'm not really aware of modern ideas on this, so bear with my ignorance here. I am now wondering how much of the patterns inherent in the various traditions that we know about may have been driven by a sort of cultural "function" that music played/plays. Do we think that it's possible that these similarities are in some way related to it being relatively easy for the members of a society to perform? Maybe we don't have harmonies that move in parallel half steps because it's really hard to do? regardless. I'm glad you're on the planet at the same time as me, share this interest and far far outstrip my capacity for study and video production. Thanks
I had a music professor once tell me that I would love Turkish Music because of the way that I spoke english. He seemed to think that the rhythms of my speech patterns due to my word choices would help me appreciate it. I don't know about that, but he was right about me liking Turkish music.....
This might be too challenging, but do you think you could make Aztec or mesoamerican music? The Spanish didn't document how it sounded and most songs documented were destroyed but people were still able to remember and perform the music until it blended with Spanish music culture and became modern mexican styles of music
I'm starting to wonder if the loon calls (and...wolves?) are added in post 🤔
They are, the rockies are eerily silent to the point where it felt weird. I just threw in the first winter ambience i could find
KZhead deleted my comment, let's try again… At 11:48 After you said “That would be the equivalent of fiding a fossilized piece of grilled meat from a medieval kitchen and then thinkin that”, I was truly expecting you to say “OK, now we know how tasted this grilled meat at medieval time”… 😁 Also as a game developper I would say that what you said at 14:19 is very on point. 🙂
I’m down to taste test medieval rotten meat from the 14th century lol And yeah KZhead is getting out of hand with its comment regulation algorithm, there’s certain random words that block comments for some reason, it also happens with links
@@faryafaraji Yes, I initially edited my post to paste a link to some tweet where I shared your video to some game developers, then my comment was not flagged as spam but entirely deleted 🙃You may find the link in another comment I made with a game developper KZhead account, that other comment not being actually deleted but just hidden from public as it was likely flagged as spam (but not deleted). 🤷♀
roman music sources: whole body of greek literature describing exactly how it sounded norse music sources: one throwaway line in an arabic traveler's log about how the singing in hedeby is the absolute worst he has ever heard
That moment 20:01 when you said "boli me kurac" i really felt that🤣
I've noticed since the Gaius Julius Caesar's symphony that you often use Phrygian and Phrygian Dominant for the Symphonies. Is it an artistic choice? I mean, for what I know about Phrygian Dominant in particular, it seems to be more of an Arabic and Levantine thing with the Maqam Hijaz, despite Phrygian being one of the Greek modes. Did the greeks themselves and possibly the romans alter their modes, like raising the third in Phrygian a semitone to make it major to bring more "flavor" to the music?
A very interesting question so here’s a long answer to do it justice: I REALLY recommend watching my video essay “The Greco-Roman Influence on Middle-Eastern Music,” as it touches on your question. kzhead.info/sun/gs6YlZ2vi4qDiIE/bejne.html&feature=shares In it I explain how the Hijaz maqam and Phrygian mode are both rooted originally in Greco-Roman practice, and the Arabs of the early Islamic Golden age tell us they repurpose Greek theory to build the foundations of their growing music style. The equating of Hijaz and Phrygian with Arabic culture is a very strong Western stereotype, but that’s all it is, a stereotype cultivated mostly in Western countries. Serbs, Bulgarians, Greeks, Spain, India etc use it no less than the Arabs, and its origins as far as we know are Greco-Roman. Hijaz works just as well for Serbian and Greek themes as it does for Arabic ones if we’re going off of its actual usage rather than perceived stereotypes. In fact as a Middle-Easterner I can vouch firsthand that Hijaz isn’t even *that* important in the region’s musical catalogue; it’s just one of the many modes and isn’t more special to us than the major or natural minor are. Hollywood for some reason has a fixation on Hijaz to represent the Middle-East and I think it has given foreigners a false sense of importance to it, where really, we probably use it less frequently than Bayat/Shur or the major scale, whereas Bulgarians and Serbs use it much more systematically. As for major, it was just one of the modes in their catalogue. Greeks and Romans didn’t really alter their modes, they had just alot (like alot) of them in their catalogue, so they had Diatonic Lydian which is our typical major, and they had Dorian which is our Phrygian, and Chromatic modes which give us the Hijaz tetrachords, all of them living side by side. But as for your first question: it’s ultimately a case of wanting to showcase the reality of Roman music. We think of it as having had to sound typically Western, but I make a point of using Hijaz and Phrygian sounds to underline how not only they’re absolutely correct for the Romans, given that we know they used them, but even more interestingly, that as far as we know, Caesar heard those tetrachords before the Arabs ever did :)
Actually Oblivion isn't a great example. Loot is randomly generated from a levelled list, but everything else, including placement of trees, was done by the devs and is consistent. No matter how many times you or all your friends open Oblivion, create new saves, etc, any given tree will always be in the same place. Re: the overall point about historical compositions vs treatises etc, on the whole I agree, though I think there are exceptions. For example, Silent Night, as performed during WW1 and the Christmas Truce. This was a specific composition known to both sides. In that situation, would it be fair to say that Silent Night performed with a different technique to that used at the time (which is largely the same to that used today) would have a lesser impact than a completely original composition composed using western techniques standard to the WW1 period? I'm unconvinced. I think as a general point what you're saying is right, but it can't be extended infinitely, so to speak.
Ah, thanks for the correction! I probably got it confused with Dagerfall, I’m pretty sure that one was randomly generated landscape wise.
When it comes to your point about Silent Night, here’s the exact same tune and lyrics with a different arrangement: m.kzhead.info/sun/prVwmtCnf5-Qp5E/bejne.html I think you’re underestimating the degree to which arrangements differ from one another, and how completely they transform the sound and quality of the same tune. Even between today and Europe in the 1900’s. The mildest electro-pop arrangement of the tune with Ariana Grande like vocal qualities would utterly confuse a 1900’s German listening to the same tune. Would the soldier’s emotional impact be different? Absolutely. The idea that they wouldn’t react very differently if the same tune was performed with this death metal arrangement, by a Mongolian throat singer with a Moorin Khuur, or a ululating Islamic muezzin adding dozens of twirls and curls with microtonal inflection to the tune negates the fact that music lies almost entirely in how tunes are performed, and not the the tune itself. An original composition using chord progressions and harmony that WW1 era Europeans reacted more emotionally to, with familiar vocal styles and instruments would absolutely have more of an impact to them than Silent Night performed with completely foreign arrangement styles, and you only need a few decades to get to genres with said foreign styles. The point is that Silent Night isn’t Silent Night because of: G-A-G-E-G-A-G. What makes Silent Night what it is is its lyrics, its cultural arrangement style, diatonic vocal delivery with a typical European vocal techniques, etc, and it’s all of those that caused an emotional impact to the era’s soldiers; not the tune alone independent of arrangement. When you put the same tune in a Mongolian arrangement, you’re effectively dealing with another piece of music altogether.
Knowing Farya is also a shitposter makes my self-esteem higher due to me having the same mentally unhinged hobby :)
4:58 is that a wolf howling?
So if there was no music notation back then, I wonder if improvisation was essential to ancient music or if people just learned to play melodies?
There was music notation back then, we do have extant Greek melodies that we know of due to them being notated, the problem is most of it hasn’t survived. That said, even in a culture with notation, it’s not necessary to have it in order to learn pieces of music. I can’t read any kind of notation and neither can plenty of other musicians; but it doesn’t matter if you’re working on musical traditions that don’t require notation in the first place. The improvisation question is an interesting one. We’re unsure how much of Classical Antiquity’s music was improvised; it may have been like later Medieval European music and current traditions found in the Middle-East and India where every performance is different from the other due to the presence of spontaneous improvisation evey time but I don’t think there’s any indications to conclusively support that. What’s certain is that they did learn the melodies by ear also. Notation is the odd anomaly in music history; for most of human history and culture, music was just learned by ear.
@@faryafaraji given what your channel is, I find ridiculously impressive that you can't read any kind of notation
immediately starting the video with some filthy frank energy
Papa Franku will always live on in our hearts
I am not sure but I have heard that most pop music and other modern music such as Jazz or Hip Hop could be derived from African music mixed with western folk music. This can mean Ariana Grande's songs uses both African and Western musical textures which makes this possible that her music is in fact medieval music if the roots of Western folk or African music do date back to the 14th century. These supposed origins might prove why music of the 21st century is vastly different and diverse compared to historical music especially if you count the advancement of technology throughout the 20th to today.
Great point, modern American pop is largely African derived indeed, and it applies to Ariana Grande; we refer to American forms of music as Afrological instead of Eurological. The statement in the thumbnail is mostly a shitpost though haha. The point with the Ariana Grande passage is that the melodies of her songs are mostly the same as medieval European songs, and this illustrates how melodies are too interchangeable a building block of musical traditions. Obviously Ariana Grande’s music is not actually medieval, as there’s so much African influenced filtered through jazz and blues that constitutes the incredible American pop landscape
@@faryafaraji Both genres of music are good in their own way and style.
@@greygamertales1293Definitely, their mixture made each other so much richer. Eurological excels in terms of harmony but with Afrological music we get complexities in terms of groove and rythm that Mozart could never pull off; one of the best things to happen to music imo is the mixture that happened in the US with African derived music
,ماشاالله
Not a scholar or a well acquainted with this but isnt also the hymns of demeter or other form of poetry also a little indication of the sound of ancient music? Not the best source maybe but how the poetry and stories were performed, sometimes accompanied with a lyre or a choir , should at least be a path towards other sources? Monodic poetry would maybe require different instruments than choral lyric (if they ever used instruments for that)? again i am only remembering a little from my classes on antiguity so i may well be very wrong here.
You’re right, poetry is a great tool to look into how Greek and Roman music worked. Both Greek and Roman poetry were defined by metre and rythm, not rhymes. In both languages, there were short and long vowels, so if you chose certain sequences of words cleverly, you end up with what is basically rap with a rythmic structure and groove to it. Since a culture’s language often influences its musical structure, Roman and Greek poetry can give us a clue into probable rythmic structures for their music. With Ancient Greek, it’s even more profound as we believe it had a pitch accent like modern Chinese languages. So if a word has a pitch that goes up, the melody had to go up. This means Ancient Greek has the melodic contour of the poetry infused in the text itself: the poetry already lays down the direction the melody will follow.
@@faryafaraji could also look at slavic music traditions as well? I heard they have great similarities with homers epic poems and how they recited it during 800-700 Bc. Traditions usually have traces that is either direct or indirect offsprings of older traditions
@@mustplay7212Right! Stefan Hagel does use Serbian epic poetry on the gusle as a comparison for Homeric recitations: the former today is purposefully repetitive and limited in its melodic range; only 3 to four notes are used in total and they’re used more for accentuating the metre rather than to build a melody in the typical sense. Hagel used to believe Homeric epics were also limited to four notes at most, but has since changed his view and believes it may have been more, but whatever it was, it was probably a highly, rigidly structured and repetitive delivery like Serbian epic poetry. This recitation by Silvio Zinsstag is very close to what we’re talking about: kzhead.info/sun/pK1pnc-sbYxpfGg/bejne.html&feature=shares
@@faryafaraji thanks for giving your time for the replies. Hope you have a great Christmas (even if you possibly dont celebrate it) ☺️ looking forward to more uploads
A great Christmas and New Year to you to!
You should get some friends together and do a K-Pop parody of the Hurrian hymn.
So how’s Canada?
The weather this time of year is finally good for Canadians: the sweet spot of 10 to -10 celsius. Anything above 10 celsius is Pompeii to me
On some simon roper shit my guy
moral of this video: you now know how to get döner in turkish
Funnily grilled meat isn't even super typical for medieval W. Euro. cuisine. It is one of those things that have become a staple in those medieval restaurants, which are beyond inaccurate and basically ponder to the image of medieval people being of course more masculine and manly men eat meat grilled like they're on some 18th century frontier wilderness. Same with the spices, many of them unknown today in European cuisines. Well basically you could tell what you tell about music equally about food and many other aspects.
That’s interesting, I just assumed grilled meat to be some hyper universal thing because it’s just meat + fire
@@faryafaraji you could basically say it is, but it is not just generic in that, but would even be considered atypical by medieval standards. Something like BBQ didn't exist... in the haute cuisine of the day. So it would give a wrong picture twofold. Though I guess those modern medeval grill restaurants cater to our impression of the middle ages. Large pieces of grilled meat, especially on the bone weren't considered good cuisine. You have a lot of pot boiling and roasting instead. Also meats are served small to pick up with a knife, such was regarded as more refined rather than picking up a whole piece of meat on a bone and gnawing on it, like you see in movies.
Oh, and in many cases people think about Latin as language of sentences, that nobody cares about speaking in it, and nobody maybe should hahae.
romans had metal wdym source: the voices in my head
Arianvs Grandivs Bvterivm
dorian mode
This is a very Crawfordian video if you know what i mean.
Yep
7:32 Is that German?
Middle-High German yes :)
No war in Serbia!
What does that have to do with video
Why do you have to be so rude to the Zimbabwe genie? 😂
Nigga you look like you were there, you tell me
19:00 so, basically, we can listen to Roman music, but not to A Roman music.
That’s so well phrases I’m jealous I didn’t think of it haha, I’ll probably quote you in some future video 👌
@@faryafaraji haha, thanks! your videos are awesome. I'm a Historian, so they really do help me get a feeling of the period and place I'm studying. Keep it up!