Weird weapons - FOLDING FLICK SPEAR?!
2023 ж. 11 Қаз.
202 322 Рет қаралды
I found the amazing and weird weapon in a book and there is only one to discuss this with. Matt Easton of Schola Gladiatoria. It is a folding staff weapon from 1550 - yes it really folds up, but what the heck is the point?
So I made a reasonable reproduction, with some aspects missing (watch to find out) and took it along to chat it through with Matt and maybe, just maybe we came up with why someone thought it was a good idea.
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I love that Todd spends time researching and building a super elaborate weapon, and then is just like "The whole thing is UTTERLY POINTLESS".
Technically , as a spetum, it has three points. ;-)
Very good Jay@@JayJordan00
I don't know if it's pointless. A knight could easily store it behind the seats of his sports car. You just never know when you might need a pole weapon.
It's actually quite pointy
@@act.13.41 exactly, you may be ambushed by a windmill.
Tod unfolds the spear, Matt:"Now it makes sense", Tod:"No, it doesn't"
😜
But it is cool- which sort of summarises the entire 'survival, tactical and combat' cutlery scene in the modern era. No one's really likely ever going to use it as intended, but they like it and buy them anyway
It makes perfect sense. Back in the 1500's the upper-class spearman would want a spear that fits in their carry-on luggage for a trans-oceanic flight.
@@MonkeyJedi99 or to receive it via ordering online on the Silk Road marketplace
It kind of reminds me of weapons in some movies where they push a button or shake it and the whole thing fully deploys. Far less functional though.
It’s obviously a briefcase weapon for those occasions when a business meeting that goes wrong.
Perfect - love it
Now I really want to see that scene in a movie fight scene, but please one that is properly choreographed at least after the epic 'flick knife' spear moment.
I knew it
Or a wedding…
@@foldionepapyrus3441 that's not a flick knife. Or more likely "Oh hang on, urg, oops" "This is a flick knife"
If I had to make a guess I would say that these might be used by some kind of royal guard traveling with an official. Imagine a carriage arriving at a palace, two guards jump out and deploy these to stand guard. Everyone around would know that the next person coming out will be someone very important.
Yeah, sure your "guess", or you took it word by word from this video: kzhead.info/sun/g86MgrlpaHSvg4k/bejne.html
I find myself thinking of folding rifles, SMGs etc for paratroopers. Clearly they were preparing for Leonardo's proto helicopters to become effective.
Regarding his function there's an entry in the 1543 inventory of Francesco Gonzaga, Duke of Mantua for "un spedo da forbeso che se desnoda " (meaning literally a "scissors" spetum that can be dismounted) probably refers to this kind of weapon. Another reference is an illustration in the "Inventario Illuminado 1544 " of the Emperor Charles V's armoury suggesting that it may have been used as weapon by an aristocratic bodyguard . The fact though that they are listed as a single item in both sources and not as multiple ones would also suggest as stated in the book "nine centuries of hunting weapons " by L. G. Boccia that they may be also high status hunting weapons.
That's awesome 🙏
So it is either something to impress your ol' boys club pals with during the annual boar hunt, or it's something a high class bodyguard is carrying around in a bagpack in case there is an ambush ahead and there's unexpected need for heavier weapons, then. Probably the former then, the tacticool poser weapon of the time.
I was thinking high status hunting weapon as well, maybe also something that would be easier packable on horseback to hunt as a guest in another land, etc. no historical basis for this, just my thoughts on practicality standpoint
Hunting weapon does make sense-as the topic of it fitting in a carriage came up, a wagon with a hunting party in it would have limited capacity. If you wanted to see pictures of what a hunting wagon of the period looked like, there's one in Schloß Morizburg in Dresden. Only a few pictures on the internet-but at least there's that few.
There was an ITALIAN FOLDING SPETUM at Christie in 1999 with "the upper-socket hinged at one side to the top of the main socket and locked to it in the extended position by a double spring-catch" (edit) 1903 Theresianumgasse Inventory, p. 60, no. 124. 1934 Theresianumgasse Inventory, p. 73, no. 415. B. Thomas, O. Gamber and H. Schedelmann, Arms and Armour, Masterpieces by European Craftsmen from the Thirteenth to the Nineteenth Century, London, 1964, no. 45. L.G. Boccia and E.T. Coelho, Armi Bianche Italiane, Milan, 1975, p. 367, pl. 337. L.G. Boccia et al., Armi e Armature Lombarde, Milan, 1980, p. 203, pl. 244. O. Gamber and C. Beaufort, Kunsthistorisches Museum, Wien. Katalog der Leibrstkammer, II, Busto Arsizio, 1990, p. 186, pl. 122.
There's another one in Worcester Art Museum that has a much longer blade, half its full length, on a solid haft with no second hinge. It's also indeed spring-loaded, so the side blades swing automatically into place when the main blade locks open, which you can do by literally just flicking it like a humongous switchblade. The museum video showcasing it - kzhead.info/sun/g86MgrlpaHSvg4k/bejne.html - speculates that it might have been for ease of transport in carriages and palanquins, a fancy self defense weapon cum fashion accessory for some tacticool nobleman or his bodyguards.
And the answer is.... very nice video find. Thanks.
I'd agree that it was most likely just a gadget that wasn't intended for practical use but in the late 1800's into the early 1900's a lot of American rifles, like the Winchester 92, came in a take down version. They were intended to used by people in the city (often quite well to do people like doctors and lawyers) who traveled by train out the countryside to hunt and wanted a gun they could pack into a regular suitcase so they wouldn't attract the attention that carrying a full sized gun case would. The spear, with it's wings, looks a bit a boar spear so maybe it was intended for a merchant or other professional who might not necessarily have his own carriage but could afford something fancy like this.
That does seem to make the most sense. Who doesn't like to show up at the hunting camp with the fanciest gadget they can afford. total status symbol.
The folding aspect of firearms is a really good point. There are plenty of - even modern day firearms with folding/removable socks - that serve little too no purpose in civilian use; but that look really tacticool, so people buy them. It's not unreasonable to think that the main purpose of this thing IS the fact that it looks cool.
@@zackdinesthe point of folding stocks, regardless of who uses them, is transportation and concealment, mainly transportation. Think paratroopers in WW2 and tank crews, which is why folding stocks came into favor originally. A big weapon takes up a lot of horizontal or vertical space folding just makes it more compact. That being said I do think this spear was mainly designed to be impressive.
Problem is the weapon shown in the picture, would cost more than the carriage.
Take down rifles are thing even today. Rifle can be handy that way in many situation for example airplane pilots survival gun for military or civilian pilots or just in general to make it fit in very small space
i absolutely love the weird weapons, some of them are so out there that it shocks me they were real
Me too - such odd things you stumble across
@@tods_workshop i know, i remember when i first saw a mambele, and i initially thought that such unusual multi bladed throwing weapons were from dungeons and dragons, until i saw a few in a museum and realised they were real
❤
@@kevinmorrice I first saw those in Sir Richard F. Burton's The Book of the Sword and thought, "That's a Klingon weapon!"
@@nickaschenbecker9882 EXACTLY, thats how i felt, thought it was a bad joke, but turns out, its a very effective weapon
I mean, Matt makes an interesting argument with the carriage use. If we assume the original had spring locked latches so you can deploy it quickly I can imagine that a potential band of brigands trying to 'carjack' you carriage will probably shit themselves when your personal bodyguard suddenly deploys a polearm out of thin air. Now, I still think it was mostly a show-off piece but maybe it had some practical quality for the particular rich noble who ordered it
Somebody said on my FB page after that it was for body guards - don't know the origin though
I mean, when you're fending off brigands, the show-off nature of a polearm that deploys out of no-where does have practical benefits.
I struggle to think of any situation where it would be better than just strapping your polearm to the outside of the carriage. You're going to need to get out of the carriage to deploy it anyway. If we're talking about a 'suddenly your carriage is covered in bandits'-type situation, a polearm isn't really the weapon you want anyway, at least not until you've cleared some space. If we're talking about hypothetical brigands who would attack you but would flee if you have polearm-equipped guards, surely it's better to have the polearms on display and not be attacked in the first place? I don't know, if it is for bodyguard work it feels like a marketing gimmick. Your boss buys this for you because it will supposedly increase your productivity, he sells your old polearm that worked fine and you have to grin and say "gee, thanks" or get fired.
@@aurtosebaelheim5942 Don't underestimate the shock factor of somebody pulling a renaissance version of robocop pistol on you
@@aurtosebaelheim5942 Quite simply, someone else's carriage. When you're hiring a carriage, having your weapons outside when you're not 100% Sure about them is going to feel like a taxi cab driver telling you to put your carry piece in a roof basket before you get in.
It's a regulation so you can carry concealed in Medieval California
It's maybe one of the first examples of tacticool gear, not practical but looks cool and is flashy
Picatinny polearm. Get a laser pointer on that beauty!
See also the Assassin's crossbow. an expensive tacticool toy.
Gucci.
I think this weapon demonstrates that, even in early times, there were mall ninjas 🥷 😅😅
Love it!
Haah brilliant
That sounds absolutely right- but *rich* mall ninjas.,
Now you have given a fantasy film maker ideas for a HERO OR ARCH ENEMY weapon, just place a spring on the main middle and top latch, and when they draw it out - the middle unfolds by spring, top unfolds by spring, curved blades then spring out - COOL FACTOR X100
But it is not fantasy. Put it in a 16thC film though and everyone would think it was junk
My first thought was that it’s a travelling bodyguard weapon, purchased by whoever needs the bodyguard. meant to fold away for easy packing and set up when you get wherever you’re going, and look imposing while you are standing outside a palace somewhere that you’re not expecting to do a LOT of active fighting.
exactly, this is the polearm your body guards pull out when you, the rich merchant, pull up to your buddies mansion. they're not there to fight with, but having some guys uncross polearms when you come out of your carriage looks real cool and is the done thing. so you pay extra for super gilded show piece spears that your body guards can ride through the city with without getting their poleaxes caught in every other merchant stall's tent.
It seems like it'd be good for hauling into a dungeon, carrying through town, carrying on a saddlebag, etc etc. So, presumably it was for an officer's baggage, when they wanted a polearm available but didn't want to have a long stick all the time. Long poles are a pain in the butt to haul around, and don't fit in portable holes easily. And, of course, it folds to be non-pointy and good for a bag of holding or even a quiver of holding as well. Perfect for adventurers!
If the originals did have an easy deployment mechanism as Tod suggests, then I think Matt's idea that it could have been meant to have with you inside a carriage in case of something like a highway robbery sounds convicing.
Yeah, and if they're aren't for like battlefield use then the weak points may be a thing they overlooked. No need to hold up to long time use if they're supposed to fight/scare of robbers.
Interesting concept, is it collapsible ease of carrying. The one at Worcester Art Museum folds in half, one half being the handle and the other half being the blade and wings. That one has a spring actuator which locks the septum halves together virtually instantly. Some weapons from that era seem to be ridiculous until you stop and think about the whole way life was lived back then. Good post, appreciated 👍
I never knew they had one! I'm kind of ashamed of myself...
Ever use a switchblade knife and have it try and jump out of your hand when you open it? I wonder what the recoil of opening this felt like.
@@scholagladiatoriaI'm a mechanical engineer and find things like this fascinating.
Surely a foldable and portable spear makes sense in a context where most people carry daggers and/or swords as personal defense weapons. Think like a bodyguard who can reasonably be inconvenienced to the degree of carrying one of these around, but not to the degree of trying to navigate a regular spear or polearm through every narrow doorway, hallway, staircase and alley.
If you can’t draw it quickly, I have to disagree, I can’t imagine this being useful for any bodyguard anywhere; this thing has to be slowly unpinned, folded open and re-pinned in two places to even be usable. Note how long it takes Tod to make it wieldable, and imagine a fight suddenly breaking out or someone running up to the guy you’re protecting, and the bodyguard needing to run to another room for half a minute to get this thing folded and pinned open. Half the point of a bodyguard is openly displaying that if you mess with the rich guy, you mess with the man with a polearm who can kill you in one second, thus discouraging fights in the first place; displaying you have a weapon that needs to be folded open for 30 seconds before being usable is a really terrible idea, and if you have this thing concealed, somehow, it could still be defeated by a guy drawing a knife across the room and walking very slowly towards you before you’re done folding even half of the weapon open and pinning it in place, leaving a professional bodyguard with a floppy, unwieldy weapon with zero surprise benefit that costs far more to make and maintain, is technically usable but far heavier and less wieldy than a solid wooden pole with a simple head, less reliable against hard hits than an actual polearm due to the hinges, and takes half a minute to even prepare for use, making it worthless in a potential life or death scenario except as something to throw at the attacker while you draw your actual weapon.
@@fly1ngG0PHER This is just something Tod made, the real thing could have been much easier to deploy for all we know. Besides, you don't need to wait until someone attacks to draw it. You can deploy it when you need someone to posture with a polearm and keep it folded when you just need to lug it around. If it's a regular polearm, that lugging around part is too inconvenient to have the polearm option available when you do have the need and the time to deploy it.
Awesome handcraft Tod! And great analysis by Matt. Love seeing it all come together. To confirm some of both of your hypotheses I’d check out the video of the example from the Higgins/Worcester where they showcase one of these folding spetum and point out it should be carried guards riding in a coach and showing off how wealthy you are. I’ll see if I can share the video.
Oh wow, really? 😮 I've not seen or heard of that one!
@@scholagladiatoria I tried to link the video but KZhead ate the comment. I’ll link it to you on Facebook
@@dlatrexswords THANKS!
They made it folding so it could fit in the overhead bins when flying.
I'm pretty sure I couldn't get that past the security check 😢
It fits perfectly into a D&D PC's travelling kit. A polearm that fits in your saddlebags for that random encounter with owlbears or whatever.
I can totally understand of it folding for ease of transport. I recently made a 2.5 metre all wooden fake spear. Way longer than I can fit in my tiny roadster. Out of pure necessity my spear comes apart in three parts and can be screwed back together in about a minute.
These videos are great, you two make a great team. You can really tell that Matt knows weapons just the way he handled it right away.
Thanks 👊
Thanks and I love doing them. The concept started with "I can make them and you can use them". and it works well I think
I always enjoy them, too
If I recall correctly, the Medici also had some kind of "travel piano" that could be taken apart into two parts and folded into suitcases. So I wouldn't put it past them to make fancy folding polearms for their bodyguards when travelling around Europe.
I believe the Higgins spetum ended up going with most of the collection to the Worcester Art Museum. That one just has the blade fold down over the shaft and the wings fold in, rather than having the shaft fold as well, so it's interesting to see that there's an even weirder version of it out there.
I think you're right. I live near Worcester, and lament the closing of the Higgins.
@@MonkeyJedi99same, I went when I was a kid but I would appreciate it so much more now
A sparring version could be pretty useful for training spear fighting in HEMA. Much easier to transport.
Nodnodnod
I'm wondering if it could even be a legal thing. I can imagine it being used to bypass bans on "weapons longer than X inches" or some other such law when transporting it.
@@SanchoPancho979 Well, the machete brawls that has happend in England in recent years hasn't been particularly white events, so the cops aren't just being stupid about it.
I mean some HEMA rubber/plastic spears can be separated in two, then screwed back together. I got one!
@@physis6356 you see a lot of wuxia weapons that break down the same way.
Matt: "Now it makes sense." Tod: "No it doesn't." Me: literally LOL'd, startled the cat.
This has all of the hallmarks of a noble's frustrated quartermaster. He didn't have to use polearms, but he definitely had to deal with the storage of them.
In my previous D&D campaign, my character was a polearm-wielding barbarian vigilante at night, but she was a cute, fashionable businesswoman during the day. So she had a folding naginata she could keep in her (very large) purse. And, now, it exists in real life. Tod, you magnificent bastard.
And historical!
Wait... Your character was based on Aggretsuko, wasn't she
IMO having walked in the wilderness as much as I have, and having carried 6 to 8 foot staffs I would say that's why it folds up. Long poles are a major encumbrance in the field unless you are on the road or in a field. This design allows you to easily attach it to your pack. Modern military's have spent lots of time and money developing compact tools and equipment for use. Not really that crazy. More like very forward thinking.
I was thinking backpacking.... then I looked at the wings, and thought....boar spear?
It's like asking, "Why carry a folding shovel?" It's A weapon that can be stowed in(or attached to) a saddle bag or other smallish carrier(backpack). It's a spear for those that cannot otherwise justify carrying a spear.
The question I would ask is can you make it lighter, smaller in volume, in metal, and still be effective?
I'd say the difference there is a folding shovel tends to be pretty darn compact folded so really much easier to carry, and while not exactly full size when unfolded is big enough to be useful. This spear seems to be even more awkward to carry than the solid stick that length and really a bit on the short side to be worth fighting with anyway - looks too heavy to be single handed practically, but not long enough to really give you a reach advantage over a single handed sword. However I'd love to see a sparing version tested carefully, maybe being a spear that short and top heavy isn't as bad as it seems to me.
@@foldionepapyrus3441 Agreed, though I think the design needs some work
I feel like this thing needs one of the staff pieces to be a single shot flintlock and have a secret stiletto hidden in it somewhere just to completely gimmick this silly thing up.
Very interesting weapon! I'm honestly astounded that you made that in only 2 days. The blades alone would probably take me a week.
I think the only other practical use is as a bodyguard weapon. They're going to follow their patron around all of their business, but not all of it is appropriate for you to carry around a full size spear. It's definitely far more convenient folded up as seen in this video alone.
Amazing and bonkers, sure seems like a status/show-off/display piece, especially with the all the gilding and abundant ornamentation. Very cool.
I mean, would a person who can afford all the work that goes into the mechanism have any reason to not have it gilded and decorated too?
As a modern traveling merchant (truck driver) i look at this thing and can think of several uses for something like this. Especially if the surviveing guilded examples are more show peices and there were far more basic and cheaper ones avalible that didnt survive to modern days. First i imagine then as now weapons laws could be....complicated. something like this would be considerably easier to hide or to be overlooked as a curio or fancy goods then a sword or even a crossbow. And would be quite handy and likely a bit intimidateing to a "poor" bandit. Second and most likely. Is some kind of show peice. Either a rich nobel mall ninjaing it up. Or perhaps for an actual show to ooohhh and ahhhh the crowds and act as a draw. Could also be as he said a smith showing his "look what i can do and the other smith cant" work off. Third and going back to the seond a bit would be as some ceremonial peice. Rich nobel with a bunch of guards whipping these out and dropping into a stanch or whatever would make QUITE the impression. Or perhaps a mong/fighting school ect used these in ritual type things. Finally it could be as simple as tales comeing from a far away land inspired a smith to go "hay.....that sounds intresting. Ima make something like that in an exotic style and claim its related to those tales of far away lands and is some awsome exotic thing used by some legendary ninja things then try to pawn it off to some moron with more cash then brains"
note that the joint or joints are going to make this in the price range of a good sword--the joint's going to be the expensive bit--so even basic ones are going to be rather expensive in relation to a standard spetum.
@@thekaxmax True but cost is relitive even today. A merchant worried about losing his entire cargo but also known to go to places that are....iffy on weapons may decide something like this is a much cheaper investment then losing an entire cargo/his life. I would imagine one of these even if they cost as much as two fine swords would still be cheaper then a full cargo and all of ones money. Or ones life. Same with a show. Lets say a traveling show got just one of the knockoffs or a really popular one a rich version. It would be quite the draw indeed. In those days stuff like this would be the equivlent of someone landing a blackhawk in a mall parking lot in a sleepy town then offered tickets to see it up close. Everyone and their dog would be stareing at it and happy to pay a few bucks to get their photo in it. Same for a noble, a half dozen guards whipping these out for pagentry would both show great wealth and status while being a draw to the eye. As towards smugglers yet again same thing. A few of these would be damn easy to hide compared to other weapons and be a shock if a goods trade went bad. While cost is a factor. Remimber cash ans value has always been and will always will be very relitive to each individual on an item. Without a proper history of this item though its all speculation at this point. A bit like someone from a starwars level of tech universe finding one of our "modern" laser cannons in an attic someplace a thousand years after it was made. To them it would be entirely impractical, extremely expensive, not as good as existing systems in many cases and very fragile. With no documentation or history they would be just as confused as we are over this spear thing.
@@arcticfox5118 a merchant wanting just defense will get half a dozen non-folding spetums and the men to carry them than 2 of these for the same money. When I say 'expensive' I mean it.
@@arcticfox5118 Not really; if you were a merchant, and therefore cost-conscious, would you not prefer 6 armed guards with non-folding spetums over 2 with folding ones for the same cost? If they are guarding your wagons there are places to keep the spetums, they don't need to be folding.
Oh that's cool. I definitely need to make one. It seems like it totally makes sense for a bodyguard. If someone was traveling with a small team of guards or even just a serious weapon that could be fit in a trunk to hold a hallway.
I like it Tod & I'm with Matt. There's a reason. My mind goes to...a pole arm for lightly armoured troops who have a different primary. An archer? Move in place, use it thrust into the ground for defence, grasp and use for melee. But...high status. How about a folding boar spear? Modern boar guns are short for use in tight woodland. Boar hunting was high status...
After the last great expo of 1520 (The Field of the Cloth of Gold) with it's wine fountains, popup palace and not to mention the demonstrations of archery (the French finally realised it's value a little late) and live jousting. There was an attempt at a revival 30 years later, but on a less ambitious scale, more of a trade show. And some of the demonstrators had totally implausible visions of the feature (no not flying cars), easy to transport, blingy, self assembling polearms.
I absolutely adore this series with Matt. There is something about two knowledgeable people geek out over something so uncommon. Please do continue this lads!
Thanks! 👍
It would be a shame to destroy such a lovely piece of craftsmanship, but I'd really love to see a thorough, punishing test of this: just how long would it last in a combat scenario against spears, pollaxes, and swords? Can it even survive a single full power jab into a solid target?
I actually think that sort of test might be very important for one big reason; given the structural heft, balance and weak points, it stands to reason it would probably break into pieces that would make for reasonably good "new" smaller weapons in their own rights!
I can actually imagine a very wealthy nobleman who wanted to have bodyguards and security around, but didn't want to make his security obvious for one reason or another. So his guards maybe had mail under their clothing, and carried swords, and appeared to be companions or whatnot... but also each had one of these in a discrete bag, perhaps.
I am so happy to see the collaboration because I'm subscribed to both of your channels 😅. That spear is crazy.
Nobody expects the -Spanish Inquisition- folding poleaxe. PS Horseback stowage was my guess just as you added the footnote. Lovely work in just two days btw.
The first time Todd asked "but why?" I was thinking "isn't that obvious?" but by the end I was thinking it must be a silly idea ...
Folding spetum! Yes, that is what it is btw. They were used mostly for police use ( the equivalent of it, rather. Town guard/sheriff type activity) EDIT: *I should have just said “law enforcement,” that describes the concept at the time better than anything else I can think of, police is too modern a job title and “town guards” only existed in settlements/urban centers which possessed a garrison, for the most part. Or so we think, based on current knowledge.**. Folding spetums… spetummmmmses… spetumi? Whatever. Spetums. They were also used by some of the gentry types or their bodyguards for self defense and protection while traveling (fits well inside a carriage, collapsible=inherently useful while away from home/traveling, especially back then when it took SO much longer to get anywhere and you generally brought all of your shit with you from place to place, furniture included alot of the time. Thus, everything you possessed had to be portable to some extent ). Kindof like a late medieval/early renaissance equivalent of a blunderbuss/coach gun, just very, very fancy and sharp. And I think you’re right about the Italian title for it, if not it was just “spetum” also but with Metatron’s accent. Then again, I believe it’s been fairly solidly established at this point that pole weapon naming conventions back then were just as screwed up, inaccurate, regionally inconsistent, and wildly unhelpful as they are now. It would seem even when polearms were widely used, contemporary, and familiar to everyone who happened to see one, the name of any given variety or hybrid of varieties could be called something different not just in other languages, but even just the next village over could call it something different. It could be ever so slightly different because of a sliiiightly different regional accent or dialect, or it could be something else entirely for any number of reasons, or of course every possible point on the spectrum between. I thought I was the only one who knew these were a thing, it’s really cool to see one with a bit of perspective available rather than grainy old black-and-whites.
As for the rondels hanging upside-down and at that weird angle, it is for pulling it as you go to ground in a grapple so you can pull it and immediately stab with it. Imagine falling on your back with your legs up to do a reverse summersault because you are putting your legs up to push the enemy away with your legs, you can put your hand down at your hip and that is the perfect angle to draw the dagger in a smooth motion, then bring it above your head to do a powerful stab. It is also in the right position to be drawn if you are kneeling down on your left knee above a prone opponent to draw and either do an above head stab or bring to your chest and then use both hands to do your full weight to pierce their armor as a very, very quick attack. The dagger position with it hanging like that and it's main use makes perfect sense in this context.
My conjecture that I am well-convinced of: Like the cross-guarded pole-hammer that you previously featured under weird weapons, this is a weapon that especially fits mounted use. In this case: whether meant for war or not, upon a horse there is a severe want of space and ergonomics, and this folding spear fits that want. A spear is ungainly on a horse, even if logical for its reach from a high place, even if mounted spears were still often a thing. You can get it caught on everything, you can smack or cut your own horse, and you can hit people around you. And many ways of carrying spear while mounted require the use of a hand. Something that folds allows you to carry a spear on a horse but, for once, allows it to neatly fit on your horse. Its specific details also fit the mounted purpose: Its joints don't let you easily choke up, but you don't need to rapidly do that during mounted use. The long blade allows for slashing action prized by swordsmen (as stabbing gets stuck in your opponents, and cavalry may want to keep moving: See all the use of long one-handed swords by mounted troops). The side-blades allow for extra opportunity for contact if a thrusting motion is taken. It also fits a concealed mounted self-defense weapon role. An Italian noble may often travel by horse, and be a target for ambush and assassination. If he carries a sword, it's generally visible, but more importantly its length doesn't help for counter-ambush tactics from upon a horse. If he carries a spear, his enemies can easily see and plan around it, and it also gets in the way with whatever (and whoever) the noble takes with him. But if he has a folded spear, he can have a spear and conceal it. Provided he can quickly deploy it, or his bodyguards buy time if he can't do it quickly, he can charge the enemy with a distinct reach advantage they weren't expecting (counter-ambush). The noble may also be hoping the surprise deployment of the weapon to intimidate an attacker into hesitation. The flashiness of rapid deployment on the original model, and the flashiness of its large and multiple blades, may feed into that psychological role.
If you're looking for another weird weapon to make maybe try one of those Indian Katars that has a scissor blade.
Awesome! Right up my niche as a product designer and mechanic who collects weapons! I really hope you get a chance to finish the blade deploying system although I'm not sure how the UK legal system treats 'experimental' weapons, they won't even allow the two (cool but useless) tiny spikes on the "Highlander" movie Kurgan's sword's hilt to be spring-loaded or even deployed with a cam system for the collectible blunt version!
Could it be a high status HUNTING weapon? It doesn't look like it would stand up to battlefield combat conditions, but dispatching a boar or deer? Those nobles often went with all of the pomp and circumstance of the courts behind them, and nothing would set the cities talking than some rich noble pulling THAT out to dispatch one of the lords boar or deer! I seem to recall a text from Spain that recalls spears similarly described as high status hunting weapons. Even down to them deploying automatically! I will try to find the name of the text to share with everyone! Edit: I found 3 text examples of weapons with matching or similar descriptions! 1. Year 1543 Texts from the inventory of the Duke of Mantua, Francesco Gonzaga list a deployable "scissor" spetum. 2.Nine centuries of hunting weapons- L.G. Boccia 3. Inventario Illuminado, year 1544 for emperor Charles V The number 2 choice is the one I remember reading, which is why I called them hunting weapons. However, Inventario Illuminado lists them as a high status MERCENARY weapon! Gonzaga's inventories only have basic descriptions, however, they do almost fully describe this spetum, from the fact that they used re-deployable in the descriptor, to it having an expanding scissor blade that ALSO deployed!
Love this series, thanks Tod and Matt.
I think this might have been useful in italian renaissance courts. Maybe you wouldnt want to show up as a guest at anothers nobleman court heavily armed, with this stored in a chest you could save appearances and not make it look you fear being stabbed in your sleep, but your bodyguards could put it together in their room and have it ready at need and give you some security against plots and murders
Ya, especially if you were concerned your guards might be bribed or eliminated at some point, forcing you to defend yourself against other warriors with polearms. with planning & training, it would probably last you long enough to get you to an escape or long enough for help to arrive!
I kind of loved this, and was also kind of terrified it was going to chop both my arms off if I made a wrong move.
It was certainly an odd one
Based on the fanciness of it may be just a ceremonial weapon. If a noble was traveling on a ship his procession/ ceremonial guard could have these. Folds up to save room on board then when you get to the dock un fold them and bam 6 guys with fancy spears. Same could be said of carriages.
I like that notion, for a travelling VIP with associated retinue who want to look like the palace guard when arriving and meeting the local dignitaries. It definitely has the feel of something that could be used as a weapon if need be, but it’s primary purpose is to express the wealth, style and technical superiority of the owner.
I saw a video on YT long time ago. Where someone had a functional reproduction. Can't remember a hinge on the staff. His one could unfold instantly and was read to go. The explanation for the use: For guards which ride on a carriage. When need they can leave and immediately get ready to do what have to be done.
If I had a possible use case for a spear, I’d want one in a scabbard on my horse’s saddle (as men used to do with Winchester rifles) if I were traveling by myself or only with my servant. It’s a compromise to be sure but I can see it fitting a need.
Wish I had the money to do the stuff Mat does really enjoy the historical fighting.
I'm a lucky boy 😊
Video only just started, and I'm already loving it! 😄
My guess is maybe this is hunting weapon for when some well to do person needs thing like this, but has to travel to some location for the hunt. Since this folds it could be carried in fairly small case
I wonder if there was a Spike that screwed in the other end?
It was clearly designed for HEMA students who used the Metro (and, maybe, gondolas) to get around. 😁 Seriously, though, I knee-jerk want to assume it's a parade weapon-but it might be their "shotgun in the trunk" like Matt suggested. There's a thread on MyArmoury that talks about the one in the Higgins Collection and it is sort of a "switchblade" mechanism. And if you truly want something weirder there's an historical sword out there which is also a crossbow. Not even a foot of it is sharpened because of the bow. The arms are held open by these little cantilever flukes that fold out against the direction the bow arms fold. Absolutely bonkers, prolly designed for hunting (and showing off) and, going by the style of the hilt, prolly the same era as these spetums/speti. No real information on it; just a picture purportedly taken in Rome, posted to Reddit and passed around the intarwebs-going by the photo, it's clearly in a museum, though.
So from a fighting perspective, I can see that it doesn't make much sense. BUT... from a marketing perspective, it's BRILLIANT! If you're a highly talented maker of whatever, you want items to show off your talent, not necessarily sell. Think if it as the medieval version of the "concept cars" that auto makers put together.
That is a lovely bit of work, and highly impractical (but cool all the same).
Thanks
I think this is no different that todays super fancy gun mods, car mods etc. People love novel gear that looks cool and has interesting functions. It does not have to be practical in an actual fight or for every day driving (in the example of extravagant car mods). People just like cool stuff :)
very true
I don't know, having a polearm that is going to give you a huge reach advanrtage in a fight, that you can fold up so it fits in an innocuous-looking case that's easy to carry in buildings and other confined spaces and then rapidly deploys, seems REALLY practical to me. Not for a battlefield, at all. But for a couple of scruffy robbers with daggers? Or an assassin in church (see all the Medici stuff)? That's a pretty big advantage.
it is for a D&D adventurer carrying a usual load out on his back. Sword, shield, crossbow, spear all while crawling through a tunnel. The wings make me think of a Swiss Army knife.
Tod: "put your hand in gingerly..." Matt: "Nervous laughter"
This is such a fantasy RPG weapon.
This is such a joyful episode 😊 Thanks chaps ❤
It's a Brandistock! Or at least a variation thereof, more usually with a 1.5m non-folding shaft. Other options would be to have the blade stored in the shaft and rotate around the head - think of it being a civilian flick-(polearm) with a longer reach than contemporary swords
If both of the hinges automatically locked open it would be fairly quick to deploy it. If true that would lend credence for it’s purpose as an easily stored pole arm. Forget switchblades I’ve got a switchspear. Okay, I wrote this while still watching so I didn’t catch that they came up with the same reasoning at the end.
Agreed and I am pretty sure they do exactly that
@@tods_workshop Assuming it is held closed by friction in the hinges you could possibly open it by holding the middle of the upper shaft in an outstretched arm then give it a quick 180-270 degree spin and there could be enough centrifugal force to deploy and lock it open. From the illustrations in the book does that mean there is a physical sample in a museum somewhere? It would be interesting to try to contact them and get some detailed photos/video of it opening and maybe have them examine the “rosettes” as a possible push button release for the locking mechanism. I like the idea of a “flick spear” and IIRC there is a folding “camp axe” that could be opened and locked in a similar fashion (I think both the head and shaft folded so there was no exposed sharp bits). If made today it would probably be a telescoping shaft with the spear point coming straight out the top (reminds me of the double ended “Predator” spears).
Proper sprung catches, not just friction plates
Although it is a weird weapon, it looks reasonable for the task of having a compact pole weapon. Not unsimilar to the "briefcase gun"( a HK MP5 k in a briefcase as hidden high capacity gun. In the 70's they experimented with that stuff for bodyguard and agent stuff. So, if meetings took an undesired path, you could deploy a load of fast metal in the direction of your business "friends". The Germans did from HK with their MP5, the USA with the Ingram MAC 10 and the ČSSR with the "Skorpion") It is a solution for a problem to be determined later. Efforts and thoughts were made but it did not saw much use in real combat. But guys with such dangerous tools look a) cool and b) dangerous to all of the people, who are not bone dry professional veterans. And things were and are made, because they could be done. Another thought: Gun variants were made with solid and collapsable stock (rifles and and submachine guns). The folding versions were more compact for confined spaces and prefered by special units, while the standard version was for the common soldiers. The standard fixed stock is generally sturdier and comfortable and more accurate. The collapsable versions not so much. The bottle neck of the construction was and is the mechanism, how to make the thing compact, make it fit for duty quick and stable and somehow comfortable. If the construction fullfill this tasks, it would be usefull. So if this PDW (personal defense weapon) passes reality checks (you could actually fight with it), a lot of occations could be created, why you would want such a thing. I would like such a kind of construction in a larp version for the next con. (It does not eat up much space in my car, you could carry a potential pole weapon with you, what is not more cumbersome than a long sword until you encounter a combat. And drawing a long sword from your scabbard is not so much faster, than a pull out and flip up and snap open pole weapon. And in a combat situation size does matter. Another fought: This thing reminds me also to the balisong (butterfly) sword from the Manga "Battelangel Alita" It looks cool and doesn't stress the suspense of disbelieve too much.😅
Well, it's not quite the switchblade spear from Asterix and the Corsicans, but it's getting there...
I haven't seen that, but need to look.......
I would say it's a "show piece" for an armourer.
Possibly and that was my gut, but I the Matts' idea may have nailed it
It is always a learning experience tuning in to Tod's Workshop. Tod, do you think for the end of the year you could give us your top ten medieval weapons?
I do love your plug in for the new knight's rondel. I just received mine with the warhammer bundle you have up on your site. Just got around to painting and clear coating the handle on the warhammer today and boy is it a beast, I couldn't put it down the day I got it, just swinging it to get used to the weight. Now I'm just waiting on the arming sword I ordered from the site as well and will have a full arsenal ready for any battlefield. Cheers and great video as usual.
Now that I think about it there is a D&D treasure that is similar. Rod of Lordly Might is a magical treasure so not as spectacularly impractical as this piece. Any chance you could make the blade flame?
A Rod of Lordly Might is basically a horemans mace when it its default mode. The lance function is pretty fun.
I can totally see a 16th century yuppie pull this out at a tourney to flex on everyone.
I'm consistently impressed at this channel, from Tod's amazing work to the wonderful guests and events he features. Would love to attend that fight camp!
Always great when you two collab!
OMG, Todd, you made the medieval bulpup rifle! Lots of hypothetical advantages, with worse ergonomics, different new set of things to practice compared to everyone else, and needlessly additionally expensive. (I love shooting my tavor more than my AR, I understand the appeal).
and Matt.... you know a weirder weapon - you have seen it IRL - also in Vienna in the royal armouries..... the Lantern Shield it wont get much weirder than that 😀
Hi mate! I really need to get back there and visit you. ❤
One day perhaps
Nick Thomas & company have shown that the basic lantern shield design is quite effective in sparring. It has certain advantages over a typical round shield. The extending blade helps for defending the legs, for instance. You can call it weird, but it's far from pointless. It seems to have been plenty potent when paired with a sword.
@@scholagladiatoria Buddy, I hope you will. when u and Lucy will come, let me know. I will check the rest.
@@tods_workshop same invitation is for you. If u come, let me know. Matz has my phone number, well at least if he still has his old phone book 😁 gimme a call
I think Matt's got the right idea with the theory of dismounting and flicking out your spear.
The fact that he made that on a whim in 2 days is amazing to me. Mechanically inclined people like that are so brilliant and different its fascinating
Pure speculation but it could be a something a very rich noble would buy for his bodyguards. A bit like those gun shields Henry VIII had (fancy experimental weapons too expensive for the common soldier). Body guard often used large two handed weapons like glaives and great swords. The folding would make them less conspicuous and easier to transport. Then you could get them out if you felt there was going to be trouble.
Yes I think it's a gimmick statement piece ordered by someone like Henry VIII, as you say.
Exactly. Bodyguard close-carry weapons would only need to be useful for the first engagement, after that more durable other things would come into play. Pulling a very shiny switchblade pole arm out of hammer-space would serve as an impressive intimidation display, perfect for a high status bodyguard who doesn’t want to stain the rugs unnecessarily.
It looks decent for hunting, it could fit in a pack on a horse or something and you probably don’t have to make all that many movements to jab a boar. I don’t know if you’d be able to sneak that close to a boar
I was thinking the same thing: boar hunting as a sport.
Good point about the protrutions, in my experience with halberds, this is the main effect of the axehead as well. I mean it can cut, but its abillity to controll opposing polearms and indeed swords etc is more impactful (pun intended) than its cutting abillity
This looks like it would be perfect for a video game, since time doesn't matter there and you can have the thing just flick open. Perfect for a short character to carry around
this is either the coolest thing or the dumbest thing, lol. I'm not sure but I absolutely love it
Ohh, that's beautiful. My D&D char needs one. One could totally use those in a trojan horse situation, hide them in a small space for an intrusion force to sneak inside a walled town or castle.
adding to the fancy nobleman theory, if you were on a merchant ship that was boarded by pirates, if you had that folding weapon you might be the only person with any sort of polearm in that combat. That fact alone might not make any actual difference in real life, but envisioning that scenario might make the nobleman feel smart, prompting him to spent too much money on a fancy boondoggle.
I would think that on a ship it would be easy enough to have a rack or chest of pole arms up on deck for use if need be. Weren’t harpoons for whaling basically a spear with a barbed point and a line attached?
Another great video Tod!!!!! I enjoyed your video and I gave it a Thumbs Up
Did I just find an unlisted episode while randomly looking at your videos? Hahahaha Great job Tod, as always
no you didnt
Yeah put it in a list a few days ago by mistake, so you truly were the first.
Matt Easton, the Commissar.
Love this series!
Again, we get to see Fight Camp!
🎩Hi, if it did flick open and auto lock, it would be almost like a medieval light sabre.
How cool? - infinitely cool
It seems like it was built to be a fancy hunting spear. Having it fold would make it much easier to ride a horse through a forest with it opposed to a regular spear. The wealthy in mideval Europe would often hunt by using dogs to corner an animal so they can go in and kill it with a spear or a sword. In America, some people still hunt wild hogs like that but generally use a large knife instead of a sword or spear to finish it off.
wierdly the spearhead design reminds me of some variations of Yari
Yeah, me too 👍
Reminded me of shogun total war 2
What if the original midsection mechanism has a wire to the edged part? So that, when you unfold the middle mechanism, the wire pulls the edged part into place? While a very troublesome mechanism, it would make it VERY quick to unfold into readiness. IF that is the reason for making something like this.