Karen Carpenter Vs John Bonham - Yes This Really Happened
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UPDATE - PLEASE READ BEFORE COMMENTING I have received a number of comments stating that John Bonham stated that Karen Carpenter “wouldn’t last 5 minutes with a Led Zeppelin song” vs “10 minutes” as stated in the video I also have received a number comments stating that I got the rankings wrong. That Bonham ranked 11 and Carpenter ranked 10 Vs the my reported Bonham at 6 and Carpenter at 5. I went back and researched further and all the quotes on the from Vanity Fair journalist LISA ROBINSON do quote that Bonham stated 10 minutes and not 5 Minutes. Many have argued out that there are no Led Zeppelin songs that run 10 minutes in length so why would Bonham say 10 minutes? This is incorrect as there are a couple of Zeppelin songs that run 10 min or more. As for the rankings: After doing some more research on the matter, It would appear that I was incorrect and Bonham ranked 11 and Karen at 10 I tried to understand where I got 5 and 6 vs 11 and 10 but so far I am unable to explain that error at this time (except to say that I goofed). But my feeling is that this error in numbers does not affect the basic point of my video, which was that comparing great musicians of different genre’s is like comparing apples to oranges. And that you should instead focus on appreciating what both have to offer vs trying to rank them against each other (and Karen did still place one spot above John Bonham, and Bonham did express a great deal of anger over it). Thanks everyone for watching and commenting. I really do appreciate it.
@TJRtheOriginal2 ай бұрын
They may not have many album cuts that break 10 minutes but there are plenty of sub-10 songs that they regularly stretched out to 10-plus in a live setting, including Moby Dick. So it's probably that live setting that he was referring to, if he was referring to anything.
@joustwave65412 ай бұрын
Didn't Bonham's band play very long medleys at shows?
@user-kn5lf8vb7c2 ай бұрын
A song does not have to last 10 minutes to have his claim make sense. It would merely have to be playing a concert for 10 minutes. Would Karen have been up to the Bonham energetic style? Probably not, but neither would many jazz-oriented drummers.
@fiendishthingy16302 ай бұрын
If Bonham was 11 and Carpenter was 10, who were the other 9? (I suspect that Ringo was on the list mostly because of his history, even though he was better than given credit. ) A poll of a group on their favorite performer only reflects their knowledge of the scene. It doesn't reflect reality. You could pick a list of 25 drummers as the best and miss 2,500 drummers that are better. The same with singers, guitarists, and bassists. We will pick the ones with the hit songs because those are the ones we know. And very few drummers are the front man like Karen Carpenter was. I'm reminded of the scene in the movie "Crossroads" where the devil could play licks unimagined, but couldn't play classical. Eddie van Halen can play rock like no one's business. But can he also play classical or a Dobro slide? My GF liked the Carpenters so I was aware of them. Most of my friends were into Led Zepplin. Saccharin and loud were not my ideas of music. I was much more enamored by David Gilmore who could make his guitar sing. His solos never got lost in the number of notes played or doing a perfect run of hemi demi semi quavers. But that is me. Just my opinion, but Keith Moon was a better drummer than Bonham.
@alanmcentee94572 ай бұрын
@@alanmcentee9457 While I understand that you don’t like Led Zeppelin (everyone has different tastes, and that’s a good thing), there’s nothing saccharin about them.
@screwyootube12 ай бұрын
She was a great drummer in her own right. I’m quite tired of those « pissing contests ». Who cares whether X is better than Y? They were both great musicians playing different kinds of music.
@marctoupin39682 ай бұрын
Great point! Cheers!
@eyesofmadness2 ай бұрын
Agree completely but at the end of the day,it's all about songwriting.
@shawnkennedy8552 ай бұрын
They made her stand out front, instead of allowing her the gift she had. She should have stayed behind the drum kit maybe it was her therapy.
@Sirala62 ай бұрын
@@Sirala6wow I bet your right. She was out in front and very self-conscious about her weight. If she had stayed on drums, her weight may not have been as big of issue. Of course we will never know, but I think we can agree that she was a lovely singer and is missed by many!
@kimbrown4192 ай бұрын
Yes very well said@@kimbrown419
@wildbill70812 ай бұрын
This does justice to Karen Carpenter. It is a fitting remembrance to her career.
@simonlarkin25392 ай бұрын
Because of her haunting singing ability that created the Carpenters unique sound, her great jazz/big band drum chops did not get the attention that it deserved.
@LS-ki9ft2 ай бұрын
It’s so sad that she had such a self-destructive illness. She should still be with us today.
@entropybentwhistle2 ай бұрын
@@entropybentwhistle I agree. I really felt burned when Karen died. But to turn a bright note to it, Karen’s death brought attention to the whole issue of anorexia. And by doing so, Karen saved many lives.
@simonlarkin25392 ай бұрын
I’m a drummer and I tell you Karen was right in there with all the great jazz and rock drummers of her day! I loved that she played traditional grip with the left stick on the snare and the hand speed she demonstrated around the kit! Of course most know her for her outstanding alto vocals but don’t be fooled because Karen was also a marvelous drummer! I learned a lot by watching her performances! Hats off to Karen Carpenter: drummer and singer 🎤🥁extraordinaire!
@garylagstrom38642 ай бұрын
As a drummer?? Oh boy, you must be super intelligent, I should listen to what you say… You are awesome, big mouth
@christophertiredofbs85142 ай бұрын
You are NOT a drummer. Karen Carpenter is pretty good. She is NOT on the same level of John Bonham or many jazz drummers. She just isn't. It's okay if you like her drumming, as I said she is pretty good, but don't lie about your own drumming experience to try and prop her up.
@blanketstarry77252 ай бұрын
She would have killed it on Doors songs.
@johncoopman12 ай бұрын
Yeah, and John Bonham is not the best drummer.I play the drums myself, and can think of my head 10 drummers that are 10 times better.My fav Mike Portnoy is one of them.Danny Carey. Neil Peart.The list is endless.
@onewhoknowsrevenge68072 ай бұрын
@@christophertiredofbs8514As a playboy reader, I can assure you that John Bonham was an idiot. Who TF reads playboy for music analysis?
@KenFullman2 ай бұрын
Karen Carpenter's drum chops are undeniable. She commanded precise timing. Her mastery would be the envy of most drummers.
@johanna-hypatiacybeleia24652 ай бұрын
Marching band
@user-wy1dl2me2p2 ай бұрын
She wasn't the drummer on their records; Hal Blaine was.
@jenuwinedisneyphiles49272 ай бұрын
@@jenuwinedisneyphiles4927 try seeing her in concert , like we just did, she is a rudementary drummer from high school to get out of PE . Hal Blakne was a session drummer .Got it ?
@user-wy1dl2me2p2 ай бұрын
@user-wy1dl2me2p Herb Alpert, founder of A&M records AND The Carpenters' producer, said Karen was competent at best and not nearly good enough for the recording studio. Alpert brought in Blaine, an acknowledged God of the drumkit and all things percussion, because, despite your wanting it to be so, Karen wasn't up to the job. So, I guess your fight is with Mr. Alpert, although his unquestioned success record dating back to the 1960s, would tend to move the scales in his favor. BTW, Hal Blaine did live work with lots of acts over the years, e.g., John Denver and Simon & Garfunkel.
@jenuwinedisneyphiles49272 ай бұрын
@@jenuwinedisneyphiles4927 So was Larry London and Jim Gordon. Maybe others too.
@PeterBrown-mz4nv2 ай бұрын
I've seen a number of articles that quoted Buddy Rich as being an admirer of Karen's drumming skills, and that he frequently went to listen to her play. I've never have heard anyone better than Rich. And he wasn't known to be free with compliments. So... yeah she must have been something.
@kevinp35502 ай бұрын
..I Was Just Thinking That...Oh My Baby Karen Could Emulate Buddy Rich 100%.. Karen was a Jazz Drummer (Tho in The Carpenters She Mostly Applied Her Amazing Jazz Drumming Skills to Popular Music) Where John was a Straight Up Hard/Progressive Rock Blues Drummer.. In The End... Their Both Legends ☺😎👊💯
@jfmax20002 ай бұрын
Buddy was literally better than both of them with 1 hand while drinking with the other
@ericbutler7392 ай бұрын
Carpenters were really a smooth jazz group who played as pop. Richard's arrangements were subtle and sophisticated, and Karen's finesse with drumming and phrasing with singing were more jazz than pop to my mind. I am actually not a jazz fan generally, but I am huge fan of Carpenters.
@DanielByers-qf9qi2 ай бұрын
"And he wasn't known to be free with compliments". Hahah. Those damned Berklee guys!
@gabbleratchet18902 ай бұрын
@kevinp3550 - Thanks for mentioning that! When I watched that short clip in the video above of Karen drum solo'ing, her style reminded me of Buddy Rich.
@steveg61992 ай бұрын
Take into consideration that clip of Karen was when she was 18. She had excellent technical drumming technique well beyond her age.
@Last_one_before_I_go2 ай бұрын
Keith Moon was ranked what?
@boathemian76942 ай бұрын
You realize you just nailed the difference right there... Technical vs Expressive Karen and John had completely different forms of attack when playing drums. Two completely different forms of discipline, Two completely different results/sound/effect being sought after. Karen was sophisticated and smooth, John was powerful and chaotic. Each of their personalities came through their style of playing.
@warthogA102 ай бұрын
@@boathemian7694... insane? 😂
@warthogA102 ай бұрын
@@warthogA10- Yep!
@strumbum9462 ай бұрын
@@warthogA10 - Thanks. It's all in the way the sticks are held. Maybe both were classically trained, but Karen chose to stay with the left hand grip. Check out Buddy Rich's grip, same as Karens. I think he was #1 in that playboy poll. If you've ever watched a Drum and Bugle Corps in action, you'll see the snare drummers don't attack the snare, they finesse it - they use the same grip and follow the same rudimental drumming technique. Developed wrist strength will allow a heavier attack, maybe not Bonham-level, but damn close. Same with Karens style. I think her roots were strongly held in classical technique. It was also written over the years that she was very skilled playing in different and more complex time signatures. It's almost a double edged sword with her career, her singing voice and technique were so strong, her label/management wanted to emphasize those talents instead. I would have loved to see her drumming skills more framed in her professional career, she'd have blossomed more over time to simply be a top level Jaw-Dropper.
@Last_one_before_I_go2 ай бұрын
I saw The Carpenters when I was young, maybe five years old, at Disney. Karen was singing at a small cafe type venue. She had a beautiful voice. As she saw a somewhat tired child sitting with her head resting on her hand she drew closer and rested her own head on her hand, all the while singing and smiling at me. It is an image that I have never forgotten. Her kind spirit simply shone so brightly. I didn’t know about her personal demons until I was much older, but I will never forget her beautiful smile❤
@lauriespratt39722 ай бұрын
Beautiful 💖
@gr8fulgeorge2 ай бұрын
Thank you for confirming what I hoped she was really like. The goody two shoes image was NOT an image, but was apparently real. I love the response of hers compared to Bonhom's and for that alone she is a winner!
@petehenson37552 ай бұрын
Thank you for sharing that story. Karen had great empathy and compassion and loved children. Your time with her that day is evidence of a heart of gold
@patriciamoran9143Ай бұрын
Super sweet. I understand she had a Heart of Gold!
@danielpenney9077Ай бұрын
What a wonderful memory💜Thanks for sharing.
@erinjordan6972Ай бұрын
The Carpenters grew up 20 minutes from my hometown here in Southern California, in a small town called Downey. (Connecticut transplants in their pre-adolescent years). They were much older than me (by 12-16 years) but I was able to see them play at Disneyland when I was a small child. I remember watching Karen Carpenter playing drums and singing. And I remember watching my older brothers and dad (who appreciated musicianship) and they were floored on how well she kept her timing and sang while never missing a beat. Very impressive.
@socalsurfmex74722 ай бұрын
Everyone makes a big deal out of singing drummers but it's no big deal. All singing musicians keep perfect time, how could they not? It would be a train wreck, and playing even bass guitar is much much harder than is playing drums, just forget about guitar or keyboards. I can sing and drum just fine, and I'm "barely out of the garage" level talent. Richard is most known for playing Disneyland in 1967 when he was 21 years old, Karen did not play with him in that gig. Less known is that they did play a concert in Tomorrowland in 1974 when Richard was 28 and Karen was 24, that must be the show you remember. By that time they had been superstars for several years and had their show down cold.
@TheLarryBrown2 ай бұрын
Love that story. Must have been so cool. I used to work with a guy who told me he grew up in Downey and that Richard Carpenter played organ occasionally in the church they went to.
@marvinmartian8746Ай бұрын
Karen WAS a LOT cuter than Bonham...
@Joe_Goofball2 ай бұрын
I won’t argue with that. Mrs. Bonham, his widow, might!
@williamlangan5902Ай бұрын
Yep, and it was, after all, a Playboy poll.
@sharonconstable8146Ай бұрын
For real! 😂
@sharonbowers9929Ай бұрын
At least she could sing , Bonham didn't .
@777bigbirdАй бұрын
Wouldn't fk John bonham
@Ka112eb11 күн бұрын
She did a solo with 6 drumsets. Getting up and playing all of em. I gotta say she surprised the hell outta me. A true beast!!
@nickrhodes64852 ай бұрын
Jimmy Page of Led Zeppelin actually invited BJ Wilson, the Procul Harum drummer, to be his first choice as drummer. Wilson has the classic jazz drummer training but was able to meld it so well with rock.
@DrMarianus2 ай бұрын
@@DrMarianus in the 90s my band backed up Jason bohnam. We are Cajuns so we cooked and hung out for a day. He was high AF but a great guy! It was an honor to meet him. He went on to sober up and play with so many amazing bands including Zeppelin! Plays alot like his pops.
@nickrhodes64852 ай бұрын
@@DrMarianus on the carpenter topic I woulda never guessed how technically able she was on drums , such a small lady but it's deceiving because she was a beast !
@nickrhodes64852 ай бұрын
That was all gimmick. She's much better than illustrated there. Fun though
@hoaacres70842 ай бұрын
How many did Neil Peart use?
@DTD1108652 ай бұрын
Karen Carpenter was a phenomenal vocalist. i had no idea she was a talented drummer who could also sing at the same time. i was moved by how you did her justice, giving her the recognition she deserved as a uniquely talented artist. She was a beautiful soul who i'm sure we all miss dearly.
@Internal_Order2 ай бұрын
Thank you for this enlightening video. Although I was aware that Karen played the drums during the early years of the Carpenters, I was not aware that she was such a talented musician. And how congenial and empathetic her response to Bonham’s words about the drummer ranking. She was a truly beautiful soul!
@jonjackson53722 ай бұрын
"It's a shame we lost both of them". Best phrase on the video
@zarrir2 ай бұрын
👍 I am a huge fan of Bonzo and LED Zeppelin, but Karen was so gifted musically. She was a talented drummer and one of the greatest female vocalist of all time.
@user-ut2gy8tg3i2 ай бұрын
even played bass on at least two songs...
@mbalamgabo85152 ай бұрын
I agree 100%
@davidburns66812 ай бұрын
Dude, she was a jazz drummer
@Mark-er7zd2 ай бұрын
@@Mark-er7zd Meaning what?
@grandeur9581Ай бұрын
@@grandeur9581 My comment was just to emphasis where her drumming skills were from 1968-1971. Her brother should have kept her behind her kit. She was able to easily sing and play drums at the same time.
@Mark-er7zdАй бұрын
Karen Carpenter's voice simultaneously warms my heart and chills me to my bones. I was completely unaware of her talent for the drums, but it doesn't surprise me in the least. Her vocal timing was unimpeachable, so it follows that this skill was grounded in her percussive background. What an absolute talent she was.
@alexanderratcliffe3752 ай бұрын
I’m 58. Grew up in Chicagoland on classic rock and the GratefulDead. Loved Zeppelin. Still do. When I was a kid we used to drive up to Door County Wisconsin for summer/fall vacations. This was the late 70’s. I still remember the road trips up in the station wagon with my mom playing th carpenters on her portable tape player. Thinking back on it now, that remains as strong a memory as any part of the trip. And let me tell you, Door County is pure magic, especially as a kid. Her music is still very special to me. She is one of a kind. The best musical voice I have ever heard.
@tomfontaine4960Ай бұрын
Singing and playing at the same time is indeed a skill set in itself.
@SGC5112 ай бұрын
And I’d say kind of especially with the drums. This isn’t definitive, but guitar usually goes more in sync with the vocals, while drums take on their own rhythm in order to get all the layers in. Not to mention backbeats. So it really is a unique combination skill you don’t see very often.
@RagenRibbonz2 ай бұрын
@@RagenRibbonz I can agree with that. I never tried to sing while playing drums.
@SGC5112 ай бұрын
Hell Yeah, it's hard enough trying to play Drums with different stuff going on with all four limbs at once !!!!, ( I play Guitar & that's hard enough!!!!), but to nail the vocals as well !, now that's a talented muscian right there.
@mrobvious20322 ай бұрын
Can confirm. I could never do it. It's one of the things that Phil Collins was able to do that made him such a mesmerizing talent.
@AG-iu9lv2 ай бұрын
Yes, Ask Phil Collins or Mickey Dolenz--- They've been playing drums and singing for their entire careers!!!!!
@thomasfoss99632 ай бұрын
Karen Carpenter considered herself a drummer first, a singer second.
@vanessajazp63412 ай бұрын
Yes. She actually said that she considered and described herself as a drummer who could sing.
@MrJohnnyDistortion2 ай бұрын
Just think about that because she is easily top 10 female singer of all time..
@davidpetty23152 ай бұрын
@@davidpetty2315 Her delivery and vocal tones were absolutely incredible. 1 in a Zillion.
@MrJohnnyDistortion2 ай бұрын
when properly mic'ed and not behind her drums, she could sing like an angel. Skills from drumming certainly helped her in her singing as it pertains to phrasing and prosody.
@mrshelfsong2 ай бұрын
@@davidpetty2315 I would put her in the top 3
@zigman85502 ай бұрын
Good call on mentioning: “…the demon of alcohol abuse!” Kudos!
@Gene-XL2 ай бұрын
Well said, Sir. For me, it also brings to mind Roy Clark since he was mainly Country music his talent was not really recognized by those in other music. he can play any string instrument (I believe) and in any style , country, rock, jazz , Classical, etc. I'm glad to see video out there now, though decades late, give him credit for his skills. / abilities. I, too, always heard her brother say she was a drummer 1st, as did she . God, she was gifted and truly missed. RIP Lovely Lady
@steve-1752 ай бұрын
As a drummer myself, Karen Carpenter was a fantastic drummer. John Bonham was a legendary ROCK drummer. Both great with different styles.
@briancunningham31552 ай бұрын
We’ve all seen a performer/singer learn a few cords on the piano or guitar, learn to play a basic beat on the drums so they can play along on a song or two. Nobody could watch karen Carpenter play the drums and think she knew a few beats so she could play while singing a song. That woman could play, she put the time in and deserves the same respect for being an incredibly talented artist. If there is a Heaven, and I would like to believe there is, no doubt they had a drum off and a good laugh together. R.I.P. they are both sorely missed.
@mjc4art2 ай бұрын
Want to really twist your head? Check out the A.I. version of Paul McCartney singing "Ramble On."
@iamgermane2 ай бұрын
@@iamgermane Please NO! God NOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOooooooooooooo!!!
@DMSProduktions2 ай бұрын
Indeed! Karen was an absolute TORNADO on the drums.
@glennhecker44222 ай бұрын
@@craigcampbell2905 English not your native language I see!
@DMSProduktions2 ай бұрын
@@craigcampbell2905 Ahh, I get it now! My 'Please god noooo', quip was from Steve Carel on the USA version of The Office! THAT was the reference! You may NOT have seen it!
@DMSProduktions2 ай бұрын
They were both dynamite, i loved both of them as a drummer myself i have mad respect for them both, may they both R.I.P. IN GOD'S LOVING ARMS AMEN. 🙏🙏🙏🙏
@user-pg8om6zn7w2 ай бұрын
❤❤❤
@jameskucera87372 ай бұрын
As long as I have had an ear for music I have been in love with Karen Carpenter's voice. Many years later I learned that she was a heckuva good drummer too. Like you, my heart broke when I learned of her passing. The world is a less beautiful place without these two amazing drummers. Thank you for keeping the memories of Karen Carpenter and John Bonham alive. Peace.
@agemo825612 ай бұрын
I was fortunate to see Karen Carpenter perform live, twice, in the early 70s. The first show she was predominantly on drums during their concert and all I can say regarding experiencing that first hand was HOLY S**T!!! Mesmerizing to say the least! The crowd was going wild!! We left that show in awe!! The 2nd time was over a year later and she was rarely behind the drum kit during this show. Still amazing, but nowhere near the surreal experience of seeing a master musician and artist, so thoroughly and and modestly, owning every soul in a packed arena.
@ScramjetNY2 ай бұрын
Very well said.
@zigman85502 ай бұрын
Great comment! Someone who saw her in both capacities
@lisag182 ай бұрын
I love it
@michaelconrad44452 ай бұрын
I wish I had been lucky enough to go to one Carpenter concert. Very lucky you!
@emsparamedic51832 ай бұрын
I read that during John Lennon's bender period, he was walking out of a club while Karen was walking in and drunkenly told her she has a great or beautiful voice, then pinched her behind...no he didn't pinch her. I made that up. Wishful thinking.
@waltlikker39882 ай бұрын
Thanks for this. I wasn’t even aware the Karen was a drummer… and obviously a helluva a one at that. Zeppelin is my favorite group and Bonzo my favorite drummer but why compare fine wine to a fine scotch… they’re both fine.
@PeterTea2 ай бұрын
I'm 57. Grew up hearing Karen's voice, and always loved it. But I never knew, til now, she was such a great drummer. Thank you!!
@stephaniehowell11092 ай бұрын
I remember seeing a clip of her doing a drumsolo. She basically went all over the stage playing all those different percussion elements and the expression of her face was very telling. I am convinced the only time she was truly happy was when she was playing the drums. And she expressed that sentiment on multiple occassions too: she considered herself a drummer first, singer second.
@damouze2 ай бұрын
I've watched that video many times. You're right- her joy was unmistakable.
@spamwagon2 ай бұрын
To add to this, I believe the video he’s referring to showed her playing at least five different drum sets at different times on stage. I was a huge fan of Ludwig drums and these were the plexiglass series that came out in the early 70s which Bonham also was famous for, she deserves all respect from all of us, musician and drummer alike.
@robertblanks96022 ай бұрын
Saw her play them live, and the joy and fun was palpable. The audience lapped it up like a dog with a pup cup. Wonderful memory.
@carlaeskelsen2 ай бұрын
No contest. Karen Carpenter.
@riobabic89602 ай бұрын
@@robertblanks9602 Yeah those Vistalite kits really seemed cool to me in the early 70's, and I still get that indescribable feeling I had as a kid seeing them. I ended up buying this enormous 11pc kit of smoked plexi Rogers when I was 18. Soon realized that they took up most of the small stages my band played on.
@spamwagon2 ай бұрын
For years I was unaware of her drumming talents. Much respect
@lynnhafferkamp60542 ай бұрын
Same, I must be living under a rock with respect to this one:) I had no clue she had this level of "chops" on the drums. Very impressive.
@la1962 ай бұрын
@@la196yes big ditto
@misterskins2 ай бұрын
I immediately noticed. She wove a precise, delicate drum track that was as important to the Carpenters' sound as her brother's keyboards. And she did it with the utmost humility. One of the greatest American artists.
@martinportelance1382 ай бұрын
Same here. I was not a Carpenters fan, so I never knew she started on drums before moving to stage front. I didn't learn about her drumming skill until a couple of years ago.
@epickett632 ай бұрын
In the late 1970's I was just aware of the Carpenters as a group, and their soft pop sounds. But just over a decade and a half ago I came to KZhead to "rediscover" music of types that I had not paid much attention to when it was new and one of the first things I saw was a video of Karen drumming - changed my opinion of her ever since. (sidenote : still the best of the best things l "rediscovered" from not being exposed to at the time it was "new", back a decade and a half ago was the "Madchester" scene (as well as "baggy" vs "grebo") and shoegaze music).
@wills21402 ай бұрын
I was very lucky to see the Carpenters live at the Riviera Hotel. For most of the show she performed while playing the drums. Absolutely amazing, the dual ability was incredible. You're right in stating that playing drums and singing is very difficult set of skills. I can understand why the comparison in that magazine, but it was an apples to oranges kind of thing
@user-vx8pl1lj4mАй бұрын
Thanks for this. They were both unreplaceable. Loved both
@ronaldnistlerjr61652 ай бұрын
I am stunned. I had no idea that Karen Carpenter was a drummer first, and a damn good one too
@danwest38252 ай бұрын
same here. KZhead was the first time I heard the drummer part, I thought it was a joke of some kind. Very solid drummer, great singer, cool songs.
@gtw5412 ай бұрын
Look around for some of her solos: she was definitely steeped in a big band rudimental style.
@robertsala65772 ай бұрын
There’s a clip of her running around a stage playing different drums on different platforms. She never looked happier.
@Trenchant4682 ай бұрын
I also read an interview where John listed his favorite contemporary drummers and he named her and only a couple others. There is only one Bonzo, but the same can be said of her. That’s why they’re great.
@Spuzzmacher2 ай бұрын
You may be confusing him with Buddy Rich, who did meet Karen face to face with Cubby, his friend.
@jbs2562 ай бұрын
@@jbs256 I recently learned that Cubby toured with the Carpenters.
@auldthymer2 ай бұрын
I may be easily confused about most things in this life and pretty much of the time, but the day I forget who John Bonham is, I’ll check into a home bc its truly over for me.
@Spuzzmacher2 ай бұрын
@@auldthymer he was their primary road drummer, for the vast majority of their time. About 1972 forward. Can you see my main post correcting the poll numbers? Thanks!
@jbs2562 ай бұрын
Why is the same passage of narration appearing twice in video, usually straight after each other as in this case, such a common error on KZhead. I don’t really get how that could happen and go unnoticed prior to uploading, and yet I seem to see it quite a lot on here.
@fromchomleystreet2 ай бұрын
Very well put, excellent presentation . I'm a woman & used to sing some of Karen's songs in clubs & pubs in the Uk, one thing that struck me was her incredible sense of timing, that was before I knew her instrument of choice like you say was the drums, they were both incredibly talented musicians. Thanks I enjoyed your video. ..
@lesleyevans12892 ай бұрын
She was an awesome drummer. I'm so sorry they both suffered from addictions that took them from us 😢❤🇨🇦
@25svbn2 ай бұрын
As a drummer, myself, I especially appreciate your take on this. Well done.
@mathewwallis28632 ай бұрын
I appreciate that! Thank you for the comment.
@TJRtheOriginal2 ай бұрын
Thank you so much for showing those clips of Karen Carpenter playing drums. I have NEVER seen them before, she was very slick in the way she sticked
@creamnsugar67712 ай бұрын
Thank you. I appreciate it.
@TJRtheOriginal2 ай бұрын
@@TJRtheOriginalThose clips are priceless!
@theeclectic29192 ай бұрын
Once you understand the intricacies, watching someone play and sing really becomes incredible.
@deborahchesser7375Ай бұрын
Wow! I had no idea Karen Carpenter could play like that. She was an incredible talent. Rest in Peace Karen and John.
@dunsapinas2 ай бұрын
Most drummers know how great John Bonham was, but not everyone knows how good Karen Carpenter was on drums. She was a legit talent, and could play and solo in up-tempo jazz style as well as other styles.
@PeterBrown-mz4nv2 ай бұрын
Wow, my heart just dropped hearing her compassionate and humble response to Bonham's reaction. Appreciate the video.
@heidialexander8440Ай бұрын
You bet!
@TJRtheOriginalАй бұрын
My girlfriend (now wife) went to see the Carpenters at Notre Dame University in either 1974 or 1975. Outstanding concert. I remember she not only sang and played the drums but also played the saxaphone.
@ThroughMyWindshield2 күн бұрын
Thank you for the story and the clips of Karen drumming. I never realized how good she was!
@2mkstudio2 ай бұрын
65 years old here --and you just blew my mind! Didn't even know she played drums!!! As a long time musician myself, I'm flabbergasted that I didnt know this. Great video, btw.
@jerryholder69992 ай бұрын
No offense, but this is a common disease, even with the internet we have now...lack of enough inqusitiveness to dig deeper into detailed knowledge..I knew a guy I was in a band with once who didn't know Chuck Berry was African American.....lmao...I'm 68
@thomastimlin17242 ай бұрын
You are welcome. For a long time I was not aware of what a great drummer she was too. So I made this video especially for anyone like myself who may have not been aware of this fact.
@TJRtheOriginal2 ай бұрын
I've known for quite a long time that she was a drummer, but I didn't know about the Playboy rating until now. I always felt like Karen's talents were underrated. Sort of like how I feel about Prince and his guitar playing talents -- also extremely underrated.
@theeclectic29192 ай бұрын
@@thomastimlin1724 did you know that Buddy Miles was a Black Cherokee Indian? Few people do!
@rupe532 ай бұрын
@@thomastimlin1724 :)...Reminds me of seeing Blood, Sweat and Tears on youtube 10 years ago and thinking: "They're white guys">?
@godbluffvdgg2 ай бұрын
I am a new drummer and I remember vaguely that Karen Carpenter played the drums but I never knew she was great at it! So thank you.
@donnacaruso69712 ай бұрын
I love this - thank you and very well expressed! Balanced, gracious, etc.
@lynneperrigo7551Ай бұрын
I always felt she was totally forgotten as a drummer. She was a awesome drummer and I think she was better than most people will admit. I was raised in the 70's and I can remember many times when she proved she was a professional drummer. I think she should have been higher than #5 on that list. Also I think it's wrong to say she wasn't a rock drummer, you should have been around when she was getting warmed up for a show or playing with other people when she was not singing. She was a totally different person playing the drums. She really loved to play those drums.
@johndcunninghamjr41112 ай бұрын
The first time I saw Karen on the drums was in 1965 or 6 (which made Karen around 16) in several jazz clubs around LA. In 1966, the Richard Carpenter Trio played "Iced Tea" and "The Girl from Ipanema" at the Hollywood Bowl Battle of the Bands (and won). Richard wrote some of their music and played the keyboards Karen on drums and Wes Jacobs on bass. In the 1968 Your All-American College Show (and won your video was from that performance) Bill Sissoyev had replaced Jacobs. Her favorite drummer was Joe Morello. who was the drummer in the Dave Brubeck Quartet. She had mastered Take Five at 16.
@A-whiter-shade-of-pale2 ай бұрын
Excellent points about Karen. 1. Top notch drummer who could probably sit in with a wide range of styles from jazz to rock and be in demand. 2. An extraordinary unique and recognizable vocalist who would probably be in demand today. 3. Singing while drumming is really hard! It's pleasing to me that Karen is enjoying a bit of a second look by people such as yourself. As a drummer myself I recall how surprised I was seeing her demonstrate her skills on a TV special. I saw an interview with Richard Carpenter recently and learned something else I didn’t know. The group was always Carpenters not The Carpenters. just as we would not say The Led Zeppelin.
@jw43212 ай бұрын
In that clip they were The Dick Carpenter Trio.
@johnsilva91392 ай бұрын
This is such a well thought out piece, thank you!
@katbairwellАй бұрын
My father is a percussionist and musician. He was a part of the psychedelic rock band Beauregard Ajax. I remember when I was a tween, showing interest in drumming, him telling me about a bunch of skilled drummers and Karen Carpenter was on his list of names mentioned. Thank you for sharing that fact with others. She deserves to remembered for all her talents.
@Gambit-Lobo2 ай бұрын
"... But to reach the stature that these musicians do, there is something to appreciate about All Of Them." Agreed. I've always felt the same.
@Knightrick2 ай бұрын
Karen could smash the drums. Her talent is unrivaled. Like...shes a multi talented animal. Massive respect for Karen Carpenter R.I.P. chicky ❤️❤️❤️🙏🏽🙏🏽🙏🏽
@roscoepettigrew37372 ай бұрын
She couldn't smash food though !
@Nightwish17732 ай бұрын
Karen's drumming showed a talented skill. She also kicked her drumset offstage before Keith Moon did.
@DrMarianus2 ай бұрын
@@DrMarianusOkay, now I want to see that.
@DTD1108652 ай бұрын
@@DTD110865 🙂
@DrMarianus2 ай бұрын
@@DTD110865 Me too.
@davericketts91012 ай бұрын
Fascinating! Thanks so much for sharing. I had no idea!
@nmallardi2 ай бұрын
Very well presented thesis. Great work!
@ceuser2656Ай бұрын
Buddy Rich called Karen Carpenter his favorite drummer.
@SLAYERSWINE12 ай бұрын
This is true
@Mark-er7zd2 ай бұрын
Watching her it is clear to see that she emulated his style. What a wonderful compliment.
@cvn65552 ай бұрын
Buddy Rich knew a thing or two about drumming. It's damn depressing that 99.9% of the kids I run into ("kids" being defined as anyone 45 and under) have NO idea who Buddy Rich was. Hell, the don't even know who Ginger Baker was. Excuse, me I need to have a drink or 3 of some scotch.
@titanuranus2 ай бұрын
@@titanuranus the only drummer I've seen who can do a drum roll with 1 hand
@Mark-er7zd2 ай бұрын
@Mark-er7zd That isn't true. Ian Paice can do the one hand drumroll. Buddy showed him how to do it. Perfect Student to teach. Ian was the fastest at the rolls in his day. Ian demonstrated the technique to Will Farrell. Haha! Actually Chad Smith. You probably can Google that demonstration. It is awesome.
@kurtsherrick20662 ай бұрын
I hadn’t paid attention to Karen Carpenter’s drumming (only her singing) until a year or two ago, when I read about how highly other drummers regarded her. And yes, she was great.
@censusgary2 ай бұрын
And her voice was angelic!
@theeclectic29192 ай бұрын
My brother was a limo driver for Phil Ramone in 1983 and he drove Karen a few weeks before her death. He saw her first name on her luggage but did not realize who she was until she sang in the car. She bought him a slice of pizza and he said that she was one of the nicest people he had ever met. Peter Frampton and Keith Richards were also friendly passengers.
@billryan93502 ай бұрын
By all accounts Karen was a kind person, and she will be rewarded in heaven for that.
@TheLarryBrown2 ай бұрын
As far as "one of the nicest people I've ever met," that's an interesting concept. If you meet a celebrity or other person with a lot of power, say Queen Elizabeth, or a President, or someone rich like Rockefeller, or some corporate CEO, and they are nice, you're going to say they were one of the nicest people you've ever met. If you meet a normal nice guy like me, you're going to think I was overly friendly and talked too much and avoid me. It has to do with how we perceive power.
@TheLarryBrown2 ай бұрын
The best stuff happens randomly in cabs
@howardmann86892 ай бұрын
Damn Karen could jam
@howardmann86892 ай бұрын
Who cares my dad met superman, wonder woman and Aquaman
@christophertiredofbs85142 ай бұрын
She is an underrated drummer that deserves to be up there with many greats.
@louisguerra55322 ай бұрын
Amazing talents... Both of them! RIP; thanks for the great memories ❤
@gr8fulgeorge2 ай бұрын
She tore it up on Dancing in the Street. She was more jazz driven.
@johnisouth66362 ай бұрын
@@craigcampbell2905Van Halen came after Carpenters
@patriciamoran9143Ай бұрын
@@craigcampbell2905 it's a funny reminder that nothing disappears once it's out there on the Internet 😉
@patriciamoran9143Ай бұрын
I love them both. Great talents that were not with us long enough, but I am grateful for what they left behind.
@CardinalJunky2 ай бұрын
Me too.
@ilovesuisse12 ай бұрын
Love your analogy 💯 agree and both were great!!!
@patrickpoland9223Ай бұрын
Outstanding analysis. Balanced and precise regarding two unique artists. Different genres performed at a world class level. Both can be appreciated. New subscriber.
@reisereise42772 ай бұрын
Thank you. Welcome aboard.
@TJRtheOriginal2 ай бұрын
You are SO spot on (and I’m as huge a Zeppelin fan as you’re going to find- I saw Led Zeppelin at the LA Forum in 1975. I never did see The Carpenters, but my wife did- when Karen was playing drums for them!). Great vlog. 100% with you here.
@earlgrey34612 ай бұрын
The fact is we lost 2 beautiful souls
@LaMusicade42 ай бұрын
You break things down well! Thanks!
@douglaswright56892 ай бұрын
Good post and points out talent by both......thanks
@russwatkins88952 ай бұрын
one amazing lady, I love everything she has done, Also love Led Zeppelin, and would never try to compare.
@marksims95302 ай бұрын
Yes don’t come here because bottom will come out on top every time… Everybody hast to talk shit for women’s rights… I bet she was an equal fire fighter too , I bet she could carry a 200 pound man up a ladder right?
@christophertiredofbs85142 ай бұрын
It's too bad Karen didnt live to a rip old age, as she could have copied Pat Boone and done a hard rock album of classic covers.
@Embur122 ай бұрын
It's always a curiosity, that so many people get their knickers in knot, insisting that their favorite artist is better than another. They are/were all great, and they were all different. We are all just so lucky, that we live in a time when we have recordings of them all, to enjoy whenever we want. A salute to all the musicians that perform so well, for all of us. Thank you, everyone. Thank you for all your hard work, and know that your songs will live forever.
@d.e.b.b57882 ай бұрын
The headline had me thinking that the two of them actually played together. Had me choking up, "Click Bait." Sucked in again!
@leh38272 ай бұрын
Totally agree, each drummer was influenced by a different genre of music, with both excelling in that genre. An apples to oranges comparison indeed. Like comparing a flat picker to a gypsy jazz picker. The influence of the voter will vote for the one that moves them. I remember when my oldest son played bass for his grandmother (my mom). He started off with "War Pigs" and he nailed it. Mom just nodded and smiled, and then I told him to play some country tune with a root and fifth beat. As he played this country tune in time, My Mom said, "Hey! You're pretty good!"
@idahodad12 ай бұрын
I came of age in the 1960s and too only learned recently of KC’s skill as drummer and was blown away. How’d they manage to hide that from us all those years hearing her fabulous voice?
@bgraif2 ай бұрын
Only hidden from you. There were many videos and variety shows they appeared on where she played the drums. She also played the drums at every concert they performed. It was a part of their show.
@plantfeeder66772 ай бұрын
Hiding her drumming skills from her public, may well have played a part in her demise.
@dotarsojat77252 ай бұрын
Great commentary. Thanks.
@jimikrakornКүн бұрын
Karen Carpenter was a favorite musician. Thank you for this clip.
@SingingPostman272 ай бұрын
When I heard she died I felt we all lost someone special . Her voice always made me calm and at peace . Forgot thst she played drums , man she rips .
@hardworkingamerican88472 ай бұрын
Thank you for the Karen Carpenter clip. Really showcases her technical skills on drums
@crwilson101715 күн бұрын
Great analysis. Well done, I agree.
@user-sw3ns4hm8jАй бұрын
Karen Carpenter was a better drummer than John Bonham, hands down.
@johnrborges23632 ай бұрын
Absolute horse bleep
@brucemacmillan95812 ай бұрын
In a lot of ways
@gabrielszarose56402 ай бұрын
Sounds like Karen had humility as well.
@coolrosco12 ай бұрын
Does hands down mean when she's not playing drums?
@johnsammersАй бұрын
Well, I fell in love with the Carpenters in the early 1970s. They were very popular and it was hard not to listen to any of their songs on the radio here in Brasil. My sister had a copy of 'Horizon', a highly successful album. I used to listen to it frequently and I spent so much time doing it that I read all the information contained in its inner sleeve and back cover. For example, I learned that the last song of Side B, 'I Can't Dream, Can I' was originally released in 1940. I also learned that she played the drums in all the songs. I was impressed. Who would not remember the beautiful introduction to 'Only Yesterday' where Karen plays her drums so simple and yet remarkably. As a non-native speaker of English, she helped me a lot. Her pronunciation is perfect, and by emulating it, even without knowing exactly what the lyrics meant, I perfected my own pronunciation to the point that I already had good and clear pronunciation long before mastering the language. As for John Bonham, he was not fair to Karen at all. I love both of them equally.
@juliocesarpereira43252 ай бұрын
Horizon is a great album! Karen's voice is so hauntingly beautiful on the two bookend songs. Aurora and Eventide.
@zigman85502 ай бұрын
Julio, your comment is very well written and I think perfectly makes the right points about these two great drummers. I want to compliment you on your english, which is absolutely fantastic in written form. I expect that you speak it as well as you write it at this point. Congratulations on being fluent in two languages. Here in America that doesn't happen very often.
@jamesarnette13942 ай бұрын
Thanks for this worthy analysis....I never heard that "street" drum solo until now! Impressive.....
@berniebilicki78322 ай бұрын
I really like TJR's measured discussion of this subject. Both musician's deserve high praise. One interesting and hugely sad fact about these two fine drummers, is that they both died at age 32. We need to treasure both of their contributions to our musical world.
@garrygrasinski2 ай бұрын
A very well done comparison/analysis, thank you, as they both gave us life-long joy.
@toddmorrison73422 ай бұрын
Mind. Blown. Never knew this! thanks for laying it out for us!
@joescott88772 ай бұрын
Grew up through late 60's and the 70's. Your assessment is spot on. Love both, both create unique emotions in me. Bravo!
@behunin1963Ай бұрын
An excellent and well reasoned presentation - the world needs more of this kind of careful, objective thinking. Thank you, sir !
@wingmanjim6Ай бұрын
You are very welcome
@TJRtheOriginalАй бұрын
Loved and grew up with both, we'll miss them always!
@RogerRamjet1562 ай бұрын
Great video! I agree it's "apples & oranges." Both were great drummers but playing different styles.
@donnicholas75522 ай бұрын
That was a very intelligent and eye opening analysis. Thank you.
@davidotis55982 ай бұрын
Beautiful perspective, gratitude towards this broader sensitivity in assessing these artistic marvels, so very well done, thanks for creating and posting
@larrythompson91002 ай бұрын
You’re right, apples to oranges. Both are great drummers in their own right.
@jonmills69272 ай бұрын
Drumming and singing together is an amazing gift. She really has it. They’re both phenomenal drummers, but I think they are definitely different genres. She looks so heartfelt✨and happy when she’s playing🙌 Thank you for sharing your thoughts👌
@pattyneff46242 ай бұрын
Great job! Truly. I love them both very much. Karen's major influence was Buddy Rich and your clip really brought that out. Had she been able to stay on drums and sing she might be with us now, as being in front only added to her disorder. Similarly, if John had been aforded more family time alcohol may not have taken him. He was a gentle giant and family man from what I can tell. I give him the benefit of the doubt: he probably didn't know her skills and alcohol didn't help. Great job again on this post!
@tonyhajicek2284Ай бұрын
I'm glad you brought this up. Both were exceptional in their own rights. The choice of who is better is a term in the way of 2 kids saying " my dad is better than your". They were both loved and passed to soon. Just celebrate their music and talent without trying to make a rivalry between music icons.
@jameswilburn66052 ай бұрын
Karen was a fantastic drummer!
@chrisgdyer2 ай бұрын
You are 200% right in every word said could not have been stated better!!!!!☺☺☺☺☺☺
@brianblackburn6997Ай бұрын
Thank you.
@TJRtheOriginalАй бұрын
what a beautiful video. I'm 71. I've spent many years in and out of music publicly in local and limited venues. In education and touring performance. I have seen arguments all the time about who's the best!! and have always been sad that we can not seem to appreciate each musician for their uniqueness and skill as we should. In the music business, as you know so much more than I do, the commercial aspects seem to dictate these arguments sadly for profit/gain. I can sit and listen to the complex intricate sound of a philharmonic orchestra and be just as moved as a three-piece local jazz band playing an original composition, a rock band seemingly blending as one soul in their performance, or even a street musician crooning a beautiful ballad of life. Many of my friends through the years would think I was crazy, but there just is something about the music itself that can be appreciated in each instrumentalist, vocalist, and combinations thereof that creates a magical moment of musical magic that I believe is missed in trying to "prove" or even "discover" who is the best. just my thoughts and thanks for this beautiful comparison.
@Kenbur2 ай бұрын
I am a hard rock guitarist. My favorite vocalists are Neil Diamond & Karen Carpenter. I was born at a great moment in music.
@MrJohnnyDistortion2 ай бұрын
I have seen the video clip several times on You Tube of the Carpenters (then known as the "Dick Carpenter Trio") that you reference, playing "Dancing In the Street". My favorite part of this clip is emcee Dennis James uttering what might the greatest understatement in show business history. As James is introducing Karen as the trio's drummer, he adds, "And this young lady can sing too."
@josephosheavideos39922 ай бұрын
Very perceptive, Joe. I hadn’t thought of that but so true. I’m assuming you are a fan like me. Find the channel,by Harvey Stig and enjoy the treasure trove he’s making. Joe
@jbs2562 ай бұрын
I was blessed with seeing both of these artists, The Carpenters at Pine Knob and Led Zeppelin at the Pontiac Silverdome.
UPDATE - PLEASE READ BEFORE COMMENTING I have received a number of comments stating that John Bonham stated that Karen Carpenter “wouldn’t last 5 minutes with a Led Zeppelin song” vs “10 minutes” as stated in the video I also have received a number comments stating that I got the rankings wrong. That Bonham ranked 11 and Carpenter ranked 10 Vs the my reported Bonham at 6 and Carpenter at 5. I went back and researched further and all the quotes on the from Vanity Fair journalist LISA ROBINSON do quote that Bonham stated 10 minutes and not 5 Minutes. Many have argued out that there are no Led Zeppelin songs that run 10 minutes in length so why would Bonham say 10 minutes? This is incorrect as there are a couple of Zeppelin songs that run 10 min or more. As for the rankings: After doing some more research on the matter, It would appear that I was incorrect and Bonham ranked 11 and Karen at 10 I tried to understand where I got 5 and 6 vs 11 and 10 but so far I am unable to explain that error at this time (except to say that I goofed). But my feeling is that this error in numbers does not affect the basic point of my video, which was that comparing great musicians of different genre’s is like comparing apples to oranges. And that you should instead focus on appreciating what both have to offer vs trying to rank them against each other (and Karen did still place one spot above John Bonham, and Bonham did express a great deal of anger over it). Thanks everyone for watching and commenting. I really do appreciate it.
They may not have many album cuts that break 10 minutes but there are plenty of sub-10 songs that they regularly stretched out to 10-plus in a live setting, including Moby Dick. So it's probably that live setting that he was referring to, if he was referring to anything.
Didn't Bonham's band play very long medleys at shows?
A song does not have to last 10 minutes to have his claim make sense. It would merely have to be playing a concert for 10 minutes. Would Karen have been up to the Bonham energetic style? Probably not, but neither would many jazz-oriented drummers.
If Bonham was 11 and Carpenter was 10, who were the other 9? (I suspect that Ringo was on the list mostly because of his history, even though he was better than given credit. ) A poll of a group on their favorite performer only reflects their knowledge of the scene. It doesn't reflect reality. You could pick a list of 25 drummers as the best and miss 2,500 drummers that are better. The same with singers, guitarists, and bassists. We will pick the ones with the hit songs because those are the ones we know. And very few drummers are the front man like Karen Carpenter was. I'm reminded of the scene in the movie "Crossroads" where the devil could play licks unimagined, but couldn't play classical. Eddie van Halen can play rock like no one's business. But can he also play classical or a Dobro slide? My GF liked the Carpenters so I was aware of them. Most of my friends were into Led Zepplin. Saccharin and loud were not my ideas of music. I was much more enamored by David Gilmore who could make his guitar sing. His solos never got lost in the number of notes played or doing a perfect run of hemi demi semi quavers. But that is me. Just my opinion, but Keith Moon was a better drummer than Bonham.
@@alanmcentee9457 While I understand that you don’t like Led Zeppelin (everyone has different tastes, and that’s a good thing), there’s nothing saccharin about them.
She was a great drummer in her own right. I’m quite tired of those « pissing contests ». Who cares whether X is better than Y? They were both great musicians playing different kinds of music.
Great point! Cheers!
Agree completely but at the end of the day,it's all about songwriting.
They made her stand out front, instead of allowing her the gift she had. She should have stayed behind the drum kit maybe it was her therapy.
@@Sirala6wow I bet your right. She was out in front and very self-conscious about her weight. If she had stayed on drums, her weight may not have been as big of issue. Of course we will never know, but I think we can agree that she was a lovely singer and is missed by many!
Yes very well said@@kimbrown419
This does justice to Karen Carpenter. It is a fitting remembrance to her career.
Because of her haunting singing ability that created the Carpenters unique sound, her great jazz/big band drum chops did not get the attention that it deserved.
It’s so sad that she had such a self-destructive illness. She should still be with us today.
@@entropybentwhistle I agree. I really felt burned when Karen died. But to turn a bright note to it, Karen’s death brought attention to the whole issue of anorexia. And by doing so, Karen saved many lives.
I’m a drummer and I tell you Karen was right in there with all the great jazz and rock drummers of her day! I loved that she played traditional grip with the left stick on the snare and the hand speed she demonstrated around the kit! Of course most know her for her outstanding alto vocals but don’t be fooled because Karen was also a marvelous drummer! I learned a lot by watching her performances! Hats off to Karen Carpenter: drummer and singer 🎤🥁extraordinaire!
As a drummer?? Oh boy, you must be super intelligent, I should listen to what you say… You are awesome, big mouth
You are NOT a drummer. Karen Carpenter is pretty good. She is NOT on the same level of John Bonham or many jazz drummers. She just isn't. It's okay if you like her drumming, as I said she is pretty good, but don't lie about your own drumming experience to try and prop her up.
She would have killed it on Doors songs.
Yeah, and John Bonham is not the best drummer.I play the drums myself, and can think of my head 10 drummers that are 10 times better.My fav Mike Portnoy is one of them.Danny Carey. Neil Peart.The list is endless.
@@christophertiredofbs8514As a playboy reader, I can assure you that John Bonham was an idiot. Who TF reads playboy for music analysis?
Karen Carpenter's drum chops are undeniable. She commanded precise timing. Her mastery would be the envy of most drummers.
Marching band
She wasn't the drummer on their records; Hal Blaine was.
@@jenuwinedisneyphiles4927 try seeing her in concert , like we just did, she is a rudementary drummer from high school to get out of PE . Hal Blakne was a session drummer .Got it ?
@user-wy1dl2me2p Herb Alpert, founder of A&M records AND The Carpenters' producer, said Karen was competent at best and not nearly good enough for the recording studio. Alpert brought in Blaine, an acknowledged God of the drumkit and all things percussion, because, despite your wanting it to be so, Karen wasn't up to the job. So, I guess your fight is with Mr. Alpert, although his unquestioned success record dating back to the 1960s, would tend to move the scales in his favor. BTW, Hal Blaine did live work with lots of acts over the years, e.g., John Denver and Simon & Garfunkel.
@@jenuwinedisneyphiles4927 So was Larry London and Jim Gordon. Maybe others too.
I've seen a number of articles that quoted Buddy Rich as being an admirer of Karen's drumming skills, and that he frequently went to listen to her play. I've never have heard anyone better than Rich. And he wasn't known to be free with compliments. So... yeah she must have been something.
..I Was Just Thinking That...Oh My Baby Karen Could Emulate Buddy Rich 100%.. Karen was a Jazz Drummer (Tho in The Carpenters She Mostly Applied Her Amazing Jazz Drumming Skills to Popular Music) Where John was a Straight Up Hard/Progressive Rock Blues Drummer.. In The End... Their Both Legends ☺😎👊💯
Buddy was literally better than both of them with 1 hand while drinking with the other
Carpenters were really a smooth jazz group who played as pop. Richard's arrangements were subtle and sophisticated, and Karen's finesse with drumming and phrasing with singing were more jazz than pop to my mind. I am actually not a jazz fan generally, but I am huge fan of Carpenters.
"And he wasn't known to be free with compliments". Hahah. Those damned Berklee guys!
@kevinp3550 - Thanks for mentioning that! When I watched that short clip in the video above of Karen drum solo'ing, her style reminded me of Buddy Rich.
Take into consideration that clip of Karen was when she was 18. She had excellent technical drumming technique well beyond her age.
Keith Moon was ranked what?
You realize you just nailed the difference right there... Technical vs Expressive Karen and John had completely different forms of attack when playing drums. Two completely different forms of discipline, Two completely different results/sound/effect being sought after. Karen was sophisticated and smooth, John was powerful and chaotic. Each of their personalities came through their style of playing.
@@boathemian7694... insane? 😂
@@warthogA10- Yep!
@@warthogA10 - Thanks. It's all in the way the sticks are held. Maybe both were classically trained, but Karen chose to stay with the left hand grip. Check out Buddy Rich's grip, same as Karens. I think he was #1 in that playboy poll. If you've ever watched a Drum and Bugle Corps in action, you'll see the snare drummers don't attack the snare, they finesse it - they use the same grip and follow the same rudimental drumming technique. Developed wrist strength will allow a heavier attack, maybe not Bonham-level, but damn close. Same with Karens style. I think her roots were strongly held in classical technique. It was also written over the years that she was very skilled playing in different and more complex time signatures. It's almost a double edged sword with her career, her singing voice and technique were so strong, her label/management wanted to emphasize those talents instead. I would have loved to see her drumming skills more framed in her professional career, she'd have blossomed more over time to simply be a top level Jaw-Dropper.
I saw The Carpenters when I was young, maybe five years old, at Disney. Karen was singing at a small cafe type venue. She had a beautiful voice. As she saw a somewhat tired child sitting with her head resting on her hand she drew closer and rested her own head on her hand, all the while singing and smiling at me. It is an image that I have never forgotten. Her kind spirit simply shone so brightly. I didn’t know about her personal demons until I was much older, but I will never forget her beautiful smile❤
Beautiful 💖
Thank you for confirming what I hoped she was really like. The goody two shoes image was NOT an image, but was apparently real. I love the response of hers compared to Bonhom's and for that alone she is a winner!
Thank you for sharing that story. Karen had great empathy and compassion and loved children. Your time with her that day is evidence of a heart of gold
Super sweet. I understand she had a Heart of Gold!
What a wonderful memory💜Thanks for sharing.
The Carpenters grew up 20 minutes from my hometown here in Southern California, in a small town called Downey. (Connecticut transplants in their pre-adolescent years). They were much older than me (by 12-16 years) but I was able to see them play at Disneyland when I was a small child. I remember watching Karen Carpenter playing drums and singing. And I remember watching my older brothers and dad (who appreciated musicianship) and they were floored on how well she kept her timing and sang while never missing a beat. Very impressive.
Everyone makes a big deal out of singing drummers but it's no big deal. All singing musicians keep perfect time, how could they not? It would be a train wreck, and playing even bass guitar is much much harder than is playing drums, just forget about guitar or keyboards. I can sing and drum just fine, and I'm "barely out of the garage" level talent. Richard is most known for playing Disneyland in 1967 when he was 21 years old, Karen did not play with him in that gig. Less known is that they did play a concert in Tomorrowland in 1974 when Richard was 28 and Karen was 24, that must be the show you remember. By that time they had been superstars for several years and had their show down cold.
Love that story. Must have been so cool. I used to work with a guy who told me he grew up in Downey and that Richard Carpenter played organ occasionally in the church they went to.
Karen WAS a LOT cuter than Bonham...
I won’t argue with that. Mrs. Bonham, his widow, might!
Yep, and it was, after all, a Playboy poll.
For real! 😂
At least she could sing , Bonham didn't .
Wouldn't fk John bonham
She did a solo with 6 drumsets. Getting up and playing all of em. I gotta say she surprised the hell outta me. A true beast!!
Jimmy Page of Led Zeppelin actually invited BJ Wilson, the Procul Harum drummer, to be his first choice as drummer. Wilson has the classic jazz drummer training but was able to meld it so well with rock.
@@DrMarianus in the 90s my band backed up Jason bohnam. We are Cajuns so we cooked and hung out for a day. He was high AF but a great guy! It was an honor to meet him. He went on to sober up and play with so many amazing bands including Zeppelin! Plays alot like his pops.
@@DrMarianus on the carpenter topic I woulda never guessed how technically able she was on drums , such a small lady but it's deceiving because she was a beast !
That was all gimmick. She's much better than illustrated there. Fun though
How many did Neil Peart use?
Karen Carpenter was a phenomenal vocalist. i had no idea she was a talented drummer who could also sing at the same time. i was moved by how you did her justice, giving her the recognition she deserved as a uniquely talented artist. She was a beautiful soul who i'm sure we all miss dearly.
Thank you for this enlightening video. Although I was aware that Karen played the drums during the early years of the Carpenters, I was not aware that she was such a talented musician. And how congenial and empathetic her response to Bonham’s words about the drummer ranking. She was a truly beautiful soul!
"It's a shame we lost both of them". Best phrase on the video
👍 I am a huge fan of Bonzo and LED Zeppelin, but Karen was so gifted musically. She was a talented drummer and one of the greatest female vocalist of all time.
even played bass on at least two songs...
I agree 100%
Dude, she was a jazz drummer
@@Mark-er7zd Meaning what?
@@grandeur9581 My comment was just to emphasis where her drumming skills were from 1968-1971. Her brother should have kept her behind her kit. She was able to easily sing and play drums at the same time.
Karen Carpenter's voice simultaneously warms my heart and chills me to my bones. I was completely unaware of her talent for the drums, but it doesn't surprise me in the least. Her vocal timing was unimpeachable, so it follows that this skill was grounded in her percussive background. What an absolute talent she was.
I’m 58. Grew up in Chicagoland on classic rock and the GratefulDead. Loved Zeppelin. Still do. When I was a kid we used to drive up to Door County Wisconsin for summer/fall vacations. This was the late 70’s. I still remember the road trips up in the station wagon with my mom playing th carpenters on her portable tape player. Thinking back on it now, that remains as strong a memory as any part of the trip. And let me tell you, Door County is pure magic, especially as a kid. Her music is still very special to me. She is one of a kind. The best musical voice I have ever heard.
Singing and playing at the same time is indeed a skill set in itself.
And I’d say kind of especially with the drums. This isn’t definitive, but guitar usually goes more in sync with the vocals, while drums take on their own rhythm in order to get all the layers in. Not to mention backbeats. So it really is a unique combination skill you don’t see very often.
@@RagenRibbonz I can agree with that. I never tried to sing while playing drums.
Hell Yeah, it's hard enough trying to play Drums with different stuff going on with all four limbs at once !!!!, ( I play Guitar & that's hard enough!!!!), but to nail the vocals as well !, now that's a talented muscian right there.
Can confirm. I could never do it. It's one of the things that Phil Collins was able to do that made him such a mesmerizing talent.
Yes, Ask Phil Collins or Mickey Dolenz--- They've been playing drums and singing for their entire careers!!!!!
Karen Carpenter considered herself a drummer first, a singer second.
Yes. She actually said that she considered and described herself as a drummer who could sing.
Just think about that because she is easily top 10 female singer of all time..
@@davidpetty2315 Her delivery and vocal tones were absolutely incredible. 1 in a Zillion.
when properly mic'ed and not behind her drums, she could sing like an angel. Skills from drumming certainly helped her in her singing as it pertains to phrasing and prosody.
@@davidpetty2315 I would put her in the top 3
Good call on mentioning: “…the demon of alcohol abuse!” Kudos!
Well said, Sir. For me, it also brings to mind Roy Clark since he was mainly Country music his talent was not really recognized by those in other music. he can play any string instrument (I believe) and in any style , country, rock, jazz , Classical, etc. I'm glad to see video out there now, though decades late, give him credit for his skills. / abilities. I, too, always heard her brother say she was a drummer 1st, as did she . God, she was gifted and truly missed. RIP Lovely Lady
As a drummer myself, Karen Carpenter was a fantastic drummer. John Bonham was a legendary ROCK drummer. Both great with different styles.
We’ve all seen a performer/singer learn a few cords on the piano or guitar, learn to play a basic beat on the drums so they can play along on a song or two. Nobody could watch karen Carpenter play the drums and think she knew a few beats so she could play while singing a song. That woman could play, she put the time in and deserves the same respect for being an incredibly talented artist. If there is a Heaven, and I would like to believe there is, no doubt they had a drum off and a good laugh together. R.I.P. they are both sorely missed.
Want to really twist your head? Check out the A.I. version of Paul McCartney singing "Ramble On."
@@iamgermane Please NO! God NOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOooooooooooooo!!!
Indeed! Karen was an absolute TORNADO on the drums.
@@craigcampbell2905 English not your native language I see!
@@craigcampbell2905 Ahh, I get it now! My 'Please god noooo', quip was from Steve Carel on the USA version of The Office! THAT was the reference! You may NOT have seen it!
They were both dynamite, i loved both of them as a drummer myself i have mad respect for them both, may they both R.I.P. IN GOD'S LOVING ARMS AMEN. 🙏🙏🙏🙏
❤❤❤
As long as I have had an ear for music I have been in love with Karen Carpenter's voice. Many years later I learned that she was a heckuva good drummer too. Like you, my heart broke when I learned of her passing. The world is a less beautiful place without these two amazing drummers. Thank you for keeping the memories of Karen Carpenter and John Bonham alive. Peace.
I was fortunate to see Karen Carpenter perform live, twice, in the early 70s. The first show she was predominantly on drums during their concert and all I can say regarding experiencing that first hand was HOLY S**T!!! Mesmerizing to say the least! The crowd was going wild!! We left that show in awe!! The 2nd time was over a year later and she was rarely behind the drum kit during this show. Still amazing, but nowhere near the surreal experience of seeing a master musician and artist, so thoroughly and and modestly, owning every soul in a packed arena.
Very well said.
Great comment! Someone who saw her in both capacities
I love it
I wish I had been lucky enough to go to one Carpenter concert. Very lucky you!
I read that during John Lennon's bender period, he was walking out of a club while Karen was walking in and drunkenly told her she has a great or beautiful voice, then pinched her behind...no he didn't pinch her. I made that up. Wishful thinking.
Thanks for this. I wasn’t even aware the Karen was a drummer… and obviously a helluva a one at that. Zeppelin is my favorite group and Bonzo my favorite drummer but why compare fine wine to a fine scotch… they’re both fine.
I'm 57. Grew up hearing Karen's voice, and always loved it. But I never knew, til now, she was such a great drummer. Thank you!!
I remember seeing a clip of her doing a drumsolo. She basically went all over the stage playing all those different percussion elements and the expression of her face was very telling. I am convinced the only time she was truly happy was when she was playing the drums. And she expressed that sentiment on multiple occassions too: she considered herself a drummer first, singer second.
I've watched that video many times. You're right- her joy was unmistakable.
To add to this, I believe the video he’s referring to showed her playing at least five different drum sets at different times on stage. I was a huge fan of Ludwig drums and these were the plexiglass series that came out in the early 70s which Bonham also was famous for, she deserves all respect from all of us, musician and drummer alike.
Saw her play them live, and the joy and fun was palpable. The audience lapped it up like a dog with a pup cup. Wonderful memory.
No contest. Karen Carpenter.
@@robertblanks9602 Yeah those Vistalite kits really seemed cool to me in the early 70's, and I still get that indescribable feeling I had as a kid seeing them. I ended up buying this enormous 11pc kit of smoked plexi Rogers when I was 18. Soon realized that they took up most of the small stages my band played on.
For years I was unaware of her drumming talents. Much respect
Same, I must be living under a rock with respect to this one:) I had no clue she had this level of "chops" on the drums. Very impressive.
@@la196yes big ditto
I immediately noticed. She wove a precise, delicate drum track that was as important to the Carpenters' sound as her brother's keyboards. And she did it with the utmost humility. One of the greatest American artists.
Same here. I was not a Carpenters fan, so I never knew she started on drums before moving to stage front. I didn't learn about her drumming skill until a couple of years ago.
In the late 1970's I was just aware of the Carpenters as a group, and their soft pop sounds. But just over a decade and a half ago I came to KZhead to "rediscover" music of types that I had not paid much attention to when it was new and one of the first things I saw was a video of Karen drumming - changed my opinion of her ever since. (sidenote : still the best of the best things l "rediscovered" from not being exposed to at the time it was "new", back a decade and a half ago was the "Madchester" scene (as well as "baggy" vs "grebo") and shoegaze music).
I was very lucky to see the Carpenters live at the Riviera Hotel. For most of the show she performed while playing the drums. Absolutely amazing, the dual ability was incredible. You're right in stating that playing drums and singing is very difficult set of skills. I can understand why the comparison in that magazine, but it was an apples to oranges kind of thing
Thanks for this. They were both unreplaceable. Loved both
I am stunned. I had no idea that Karen Carpenter was a drummer first, and a damn good one too
same here. KZhead was the first time I heard the drummer part, I thought it was a joke of some kind. Very solid drummer, great singer, cool songs.
Look around for some of her solos: she was definitely steeped in a big band rudimental style.
There’s a clip of her running around a stage playing different drums on different platforms. She never looked happier.
I also read an interview where John listed his favorite contemporary drummers and he named her and only a couple others. There is only one Bonzo, but the same can be said of her. That’s why they’re great.
You may be confusing him with Buddy Rich, who did meet Karen face to face with Cubby, his friend.
@@jbs256 I recently learned that Cubby toured with the Carpenters.
I may be easily confused about most things in this life and pretty much of the time, but the day I forget who John Bonham is, I’ll check into a home bc its truly over for me.
@@auldthymer he was their primary road drummer, for the vast majority of their time. About 1972 forward. Can you see my main post correcting the poll numbers? Thanks!
Why is the same passage of narration appearing twice in video, usually straight after each other as in this case, such a common error on KZhead. I don’t really get how that could happen and go unnoticed prior to uploading, and yet I seem to see it quite a lot on here.
Very well put, excellent presentation . I'm a woman & used to sing some of Karen's songs in clubs & pubs in the Uk, one thing that struck me was her incredible sense of timing, that was before I knew her instrument of choice like you say was the drums, they were both incredibly talented musicians. Thanks I enjoyed your video. ..
She was an awesome drummer. I'm so sorry they both suffered from addictions that took them from us 😢❤🇨🇦
As a drummer, myself, I especially appreciate your take on this. Well done.
I appreciate that! Thank you for the comment.
Thank you so much for showing those clips of Karen Carpenter playing drums. I have NEVER seen them before, she was very slick in the way she sticked
Thank you. I appreciate it.
@@TJRtheOriginalThose clips are priceless!
Once you understand the intricacies, watching someone play and sing really becomes incredible.
Wow! I had no idea Karen Carpenter could play like that. She was an incredible talent. Rest in Peace Karen and John.
Most drummers know how great John Bonham was, but not everyone knows how good Karen Carpenter was on drums. She was a legit talent, and could play and solo in up-tempo jazz style as well as other styles.
Wow, my heart just dropped hearing her compassionate and humble response to Bonham's reaction. Appreciate the video.
You bet!
My girlfriend (now wife) went to see the Carpenters at Notre Dame University in either 1974 or 1975. Outstanding concert. I remember she not only sang and played the drums but also played the saxaphone.
Thank you for the story and the clips of Karen drumming. I never realized how good she was!
65 years old here --and you just blew my mind! Didn't even know she played drums!!! As a long time musician myself, I'm flabbergasted that I didnt know this. Great video, btw.
No offense, but this is a common disease, even with the internet we have now...lack of enough inqusitiveness to dig deeper into detailed knowledge..I knew a guy I was in a band with once who didn't know Chuck Berry was African American.....lmao...I'm 68
You are welcome. For a long time I was not aware of what a great drummer she was too. So I made this video especially for anyone like myself who may have not been aware of this fact.
I've known for quite a long time that she was a drummer, but I didn't know about the Playboy rating until now. I always felt like Karen's talents were underrated. Sort of like how I feel about Prince and his guitar playing talents -- also extremely underrated.
@@thomastimlin1724 did you know that Buddy Miles was a Black Cherokee Indian? Few people do!
@@thomastimlin1724 :)...Reminds me of seeing Blood, Sweat and Tears on youtube 10 years ago and thinking: "They're white guys">?
I am a new drummer and I remember vaguely that Karen Carpenter played the drums but I never knew she was great at it! So thank you.
I love this - thank you and very well expressed! Balanced, gracious, etc.
I always felt she was totally forgotten as a drummer. She was a awesome drummer and I think she was better than most people will admit. I was raised in the 70's and I can remember many times when she proved she was a professional drummer. I think she should have been higher than #5 on that list. Also I think it's wrong to say she wasn't a rock drummer, you should have been around when she was getting warmed up for a show or playing with other people when she was not singing. She was a totally different person playing the drums. She really loved to play those drums.
The first time I saw Karen on the drums was in 1965 or 6 (which made Karen around 16) in several jazz clubs around LA. In 1966, the Richard Carpenter Trio played "Iced Tea" and "The Girl from Ipanema" at the Hollywood Bowl Battle of the Bands (and won). Richard wrote some of their music and played the keyboards Karen on drums and Wes Jacobs on bass. In the 1968 Your All-American College Show (and won your video was from that performance) Bill Sissoyev had replaced Jacobs. Her favorite drummer was Joe Morello. who was the drummer in the Dave Brubeck Quartet. She had mastered Take Five at 16.
Excellent points about Karen. 1. Top notch drummer who could probably sit in with a wide range of styles from jazz to rock and be in demand. 2. An extraordinary unique and recognizable vocalist who would probably be in demand today. 3. Singing while drumming is really hard! It's pleasing to me that Karen is enjoying a bit of a second look by people such as yourself. As a drummer myself I recall how surprised I was seeing her demonstrate her skills on a TV special. I saw an interview with Richard Carpenter recently and learned something else I didn’t know. The group was always Carpenters not The Carpenters. just as we would not say The Led Zeppelin.
In that clip they were The Dick Carpenter Trio.
This is such a well thought out piece, thank you!
My father is a percussionist and musician. He was a part of the psychedelic rock band Beauregard Ajax. I remember when I was a tween, showing interest in drumming, him telling me about a bunch of skilled drummers and Karen Carpenter was on his list of names mentioned. Thank you for sharing that fact with others. She deserves to remembered for all her talents.
"... But to reach the stature that these musicians do, there is something to appreciate about All Of Them." Agreed. I've always felt the same.
Karen could smash the drums. Her talent is unrivaled. Like...shes a multi talented animal. Massive respect for Karen Carpenter R.I.P. chicky ❤️❤️❤️🙏🏽🙏🏽🙏🏽
She couldn't smash food though !
Karen's drumming showed a talented skill. She also kicked her drumset offstage before Keith Moon did.
@@DrMarianusOkay, now I want to see that.
@@DTD110865 🙂
@@DTD110865 Me too.
Fascinating! Thanks so much for sharing. I had no idea!
Very well presented thesis. Great work!
Buddy Rich called Karen Carpenter his favorite drummer.
This is true
Watching her it is clear to see that she emulated his style. What a wonderful compliment.
Buddy Rich knew a thing or two about drumming. It's damn depressing that 99.9% of the kids I run into ("kids" being defined as anyone 45 and under) have NO idea who Buddy Rich was. Hell, the don't even know who Ginger Baker was. Excuse, me I need to have a drink or 3 of some scotch.
@@titanuranus the only drummer I've seen who can do a drum roll with 1 hand
@Mark-er7zd That isn't true. Ian Paice can do the one hand drumroll. Buddy showed him how to do it. Perfect Student to teach. Ian was the fastest at the rolls in his day. Ian demonstrated the technique to Will Farrell. Haha! Actually Chad Smith. You probably can Google that demonstration. It is awesome.
I hadn’t paid attention to Karen Carpenter’s drumming (only her singing) until a year or two ago, when I read about how highly other drummers regarded her. And yes, she was great.
And her voice was angelic!
My brother was a limo driver for Phil Ramone in 1983 and he drove Karen a few weeks before her death. He saw her first name on her luggage but did not realize who she was until she sang in the car. She bought him a slice of pizza and he said that she was one of the nicest people he had ever met. Peter Frampton and Keith Richards were also friendly passengers.
By all accounts Karen was a kind person, and she will be rewarded in heaven for that.
As far as "one of the nicest people I've ever met," that's an interesting concept. If you meet a celebrity or other person with a lot of power, say Queen Elizabeth, or a President, or someone rich like Rockefeller, or some corporate CEO, and they are nice, you're going to say they were one of the nicest people you've ever met. If you meet a normal nice guy like me, you're going to think I was overly friendly and talked too much and avoid me. It has to do with how we perceive power.
The best stuff happens randomly in cabs
Damn Karen could jam
Who cares my dad met superman, wonder woman and Aquaman
She is an underrated drummer that deserves to be up there with many greats.
Amazing talents... Both of them! RIP; thanks for the great memories ❤
She tore it up on Dancing in the Street. She was more jazz driven.
@@craigcampbell2905Van Halen came after Carpenters
@@craigcampbell2905 it's a funny reminder that nothing disappears once it's out there on the Internet 😉
I love them both. Great talents that were not with us long enough, but I am grateful for what they left behind.
Me too.
Love your analogy 💯 agree and both were great!!!
Outstanding analysis. Balanced and precise regarding two unique artists. Different genres performed at a world class level. Both can be appreciated. New subscriber.
Thank you. Welcome aboard.
You are SO spot on (and I’m as huge a Zeppelin fan as you’re going to find- I saw Led Zeppelin at the LA Forum in 1975. I never did see The Carpenters, but my wife did- when Karen was playing drums for them!). Great vlog. 100% with you here.
The fact is we lost 2 beautiful souls
You break things down well! Thanks!
Good post and points out talent by both......thanks
one amazing lady, I love everything she has done, Also love Led Zeppelin, and would never try to compare.
Yes don’t come here because bottom will come out on top every time… Everybody hast to talk shit for women’s rights… I bet she was an equal fire fighter too , I bet she could carry a 200 pound man up a ladder right?
It's too bad Karen didnt live to a rip old age, as she could have copied Pat Boone and done a hard rock album of classic covers.
It's always a curiosity, that so many people get their knickers in knot, insisting that their favorite artist is better than another. They are/were all great, and they were all different. We are all just so lucky, that we live in a time when we have recordings of them all, to enjoy whenever we want. A salute to all the musicians that perform so well, for all of us. Thank you, everyone. Thank you for all your hard work, and know that your songs will live forever.
The headline had me thinking that the two of them actually played together. Had me choking up, "Click Bait." Sucked in again!
Totally agree, each drummer was influenced by a different genre of music, with both excelling in that genre. An apples to oranges comparison indeed. Like comparing a flat picker to a gypsy jazz picker. The influence of the voter will vote for the one that moves them. I remember when my oldest son played bass for his grandmother (my mom). He started off with "War Pigs" and he nailed it. Mom just nodded and smiled, and then I told him to play some country tune with a root and fifth beat. As he played this country tune in time, My Mom said, "Hey! You're pretty good!"
I came of age in the 1960s and too only learned recently of KC’s skill as drummer and was blown away. How’d they manage to hide that from us all those years hearing her fabulous voice?
Only hidden from you. There were many videos and variety shows they appeared on where she played the drums. She also played the drums at every concert they performed. It was a part of their show.
Hiding her drumming skills from her public, may well have played a part in her demise.
Great commentary. Thanks.
Karen Carpenter was a favorite musician. Thank you for this clip.
When I heard she died I felt we all lost someone special . Her voice always made me calm and at peace . Forgot thst she played drums , man she rips .
Thank you for the Karen Carpenter clip. Really showcases her technical skills on drums
Great analysis. Well done, I agree.
Karen Carpenter was a better drummer than John Bonham, hands down.
Absolute horse bleep
In a lot of ways
Sounds like Karen had humility as well.
Does hands down mean when she's not playing drums?
Well, I fell in love with the Carpenters in the early 1970s. They were very popular and it was hard not to listen to any of their songs on the radio here in Brasil. My sister had a copy of 'Horizon', a highly successful album. I used to listen to it frequently and I spent so much time doing it that I read all the information contained in its inner sleeve and back cover. For example, I learned that the last song of Side B, 'I Can't Dream, Can I' was originally released in 1940. I also learned that she played the drums in all the songs. I was impressed. Who would not remember the beautiful introduction to 'Only Yesterday' where Karen plays her drums so simple and yet remarkably. As a non-native speaker of English, she helped me a lot. Her pronunciation is perfect, and by emulating it, even without knowing exactly what the lyrics meant, I perfected my own pronunciation to the point that I already had good and clear pronunciation long before mastering the language. As for John Bonham, he was not fair to Karen at all. I love both of them equally.
Horizon is a great album! Karen's voice is so hauntingly beautiful on the two bookend songs. Aurora and Eventide.
Julio, your comment is very well written and I think perfectly makes the right points about these two great drummers. I want to compliment you on your english, which is absolutely fantastic in written form. I expect that you speak it as well as you write it at this point. Congratulations on being fluent in two languages. Here in America that doesn't happen very often.
Thanks for this worthy analysis....I never heard that "street" drum solo until now! Impressive.....
I really like TJR's measured discussion of this subject. Both musician's deserve high praise. One interesting and hugely sad fact about these two fine drummers, is that they both died at age 32. We need to treasure both of their contributions to our musical world.
A very well done comparison/analysis, thank you, as they both gave us life-long joy.
Mind. Blown. Never knew this! thanks for laying it out for us!
Grew up through late 60's and the 70's. Your assessment is spot on. Love both, both create unique emotions in me. Bravo!
An excellent and well reasoned presentation - the world needs more of this kind of careful, objective thinking. Thank you, sir !
You are very welcome
Loved and grew up with both, we'll miss them always!
Great video! I agree it's "apples & oranges." Both were great drummers but playing different styles.
That was a very intelligent and eye opening analysis. Thank you.
Beautiful perspective, gratitude towards this broader sensitivity in assessing these artistic marvels, so very well done, thanks for creating and posting
You’re right, apples to oranges. Both are great drummers in their own right.
Drumming and singing together is an amazing gift. She really has it. They’re both phenomenal drummers, but I think they are definitely different genres. She looks so heartfelt✨and happy when she’s playing🙌 Thank you for sharing your thoughts👌
Great job! Truly. I love them both very much. Karen's major influence was Buddy Rich and your clip really brought that out. Had she been able to stay on drums and sing she might be with us now, as being in front only added to her disorder. Similarly, if John had been aforded more family time alcohol may not have taken him. He was a gentle giant and family man from what I can tell. I give him the benefit of the doubt: he probably didn't know her skills and alcohol didn't help. Great job again on this post!
I'm glad you brought this up. Both were exceptional in their own rights. The choice of who is better is a term in the way of 2 kids saying " my dad is better than your". They were both loved and passed to soon. Just celebrate their music and talent without trying to make a rivalry between music icons.
Karen was a fantastic drummer!
You are 200% right in every word said could not have been stated better!!!!!☺☺☺☺☺☺
Thank you.
what a beautiful video. I'm 71. I've spent many years in and out of music publicly in local and limited venues. In education and touring performance. I have seen arguments all the time about who's the best!! and have always been sad that we can not seem to appreciate each musician for their uniqueness and skill as we should. In the music business, as you know so much more than I do, the commercial aspects seem to dictate these arguments sadly for profit/gain. I can sit and listen to the complex intricate sound of a philharmonic orchestra and be just as moved as a three-piece local jazz band playing an original composition, a rock band seemingly blending as one soul in their performance, or even a street musician crooning a beautiful ballad of life. Many of my friends through the years would think I was crazy, but there just is something about the music itself that can be appreciated in each instrumentalist, vocalist, and combinations thereof that creates a magical moment of musical magic that I believe is missed in trying to "prove" or even "discover" who is the best. just my thoughts and thanks for this beautiful comparison.
I am a hard rock guitarist. My favorite vocalists are Neil Diamond & Karen Carpenter. I was born at a great moment in music.
I have seen the video clip several times on You Tube of the Carpenters (then known as the "Dick Carpenter Trio") that you reference, playing "Dancing In the Street". My favorite part of this clip is emcee Dennis James uttering what might the greatest understatement in show business history. As James is introducing Karen as the trio's drummer, he adds, "And this young lady can sing too."
Very perceptive, Joe. I hadn’t thought of that but so true. I’m assuming you are a fan like me. Find the channel,by Harvey Stig and enjoy the treasure trove he’s making. Joe
I was blessed with seeing both of these artists, The Carpenters at Pine Knob and Led Zeppelin at the Pontiac Silverdome.
Wow man, Really... WOW!