Pushing the Mistral Gazelle to its Limits on Enigma's Cold War Server
Testing out Polychop's changes to the DCS Gazelle and Mistral on our DCS Multiplayer Cold War Server
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Chapters:
00:00 Intro
00:32 First Contact
02:35 Second Contact
04:53 Navigating the AAA at Hama
07:18 Server Chat
11:41 Third Contact
14:26 Fourth Contact
16:15 RTB
16:56 Closing Words
17:14 Outro
Outro Music:
• Synthwave / Retrowave ...
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Curious what Gazelle players think of the new Gazelle rework, let me know below. Please subscribe if you haven't already, it REALLY helps.
I used to pretty consistently play ground attack in the Gazelle, but the removal of the autohover and the changes to the HOT3 targeting made it impossible for single seat. I'd definitely come back to play Mistral Gazelle though.
@@mikerm318 They did not remove autohover. I use it constantly. They made it as real as the one in the gazelle IRL. YOU are the one responsible for the yaw and collective. The only axis that are controlled for position stabilization are pitch and roll. Regarding the new FM, majority of gaz players are really happy with it. I love playing that thing !
Hind : -Air to Air: lets shot down some planes -Air to Ground: i dont care, i will burn down everything -Troops: go bois -Copilot: extra pair of eyes that can do some pew pew -Speed: im fat and fas as fak boooi -Armored chongster: a10? huh, comrad can take everything. Gazelle : -20mm: eh... most likely i die when i use it. -rockets: cool, most likely i die when i use them. Atgm cool. but only 4 and you defencless. -Scouts: your uber arrived. -Speed: you dont have it. -Armor: PAPER Thahts annoying. As a Gazelle player, you a sadist! Gazelle is great but its useless in every way when you compare it to hinds. And you WILL compare it to hinds when you try to take off and the sworm of Hinds come to you. Its alwayse 5hinds to 1 lonely sad Gazelle. You cant run or catch them, they just faster. Give the Gazelle the mistralls and make them shorter range a r60 or just swap it and give them r60 if its possible and watch the hind players cry like babys :) (gonna try tommorow)
Feels like a helicopter now in terms of flight, I quite like it. Still limited in what it can do in many respects, but it is what it is. While the mistral still overperforms, i'm surprised it's not performing even better. Especially if some players doing airfield camps with mistrals were tilting things further, and with red pilots not being used to having to respond to that kind of threat, flying way too high in hinds or way too low in jets. Ultimately it's probably too disruptuve to stay, but it was an interesting test to see play out. Unfortunately the Gazelle is now a really hard helo to run in VR I find too. Eats them frames.
The update made it so much worse in my opinion.
Keep it. Its nice to have a AA blue helicopter. Its not like you can load out AA and AG missiles on it like the hind. Serves a purpose and gives us another unit to fly.
You can tell Hinds haven’t had much AA competition by how lackadaisical they were flying. The Mistrals will definitely keep them on their toes and finally give blue helos a viable AA option.
One thing that I think is important is testing some things. While I feel the Mistral is way too strong on the server, Polychopy made some changes to it so we thought it would be good to test it for a bit. Worst case scenario, it sucks for temporary period but the memories are permanent.
My experiences with Mistrals was they eat flares easily. So in an environment where aircraft aren't equipped with MWS or equivalent and won't drop flares a surprise attack with Mistrals feels really strong.
hey! do you thint the VSN F-4C/B is viable for the server as it is in the timeline and modeled to an good percent i would love to see it in the server and i wanna hear your opinion on it
The biggest detractor with the gazelle is it isn’t a Hip.
The one and only
So true
3:47 "Hind bros, not like this" Cracked me up
I am a new helicopter pilot and I was learning both the Gazelle and the Hind. I vote for the missile to stay, it's a counter to Hind's high altitude flying. At high altitude ,the Hind has ATGMs and the R60Ms while the blue have nothing for the helicopters. For the fun factor, I got bored with Mistrals needing to rearm all the time and the flight home is far, so I ended up using GIAT pod more often than Mistrals. It takes as little as 12 bullets to kill the Hip from GIAT SAPHEI rounds and you have 240 of them. I did not find the Mistals very effective against Hinds, mostly requiring 2 missiles for a kill. Mistrals seem like a waste against the Hip and it's too bad that Gazelle can't carry Mistrals and any type of machine gun. The Hind has rockets and the 30mm after he is done with 2 types of missiles, hence the fun factor is higher. I was switching between Red and Blue learning both helicopters and when I was in the Hind, I got shot down quite a lot by Mistrals. I readjusted by flying lower. The Mistrals introduce a new dynamic to the server. I did not manage to get any plane kills with Mistrals since airfields are protected by Vulcans and Rolands and there is nothing you can do to them with Mistrals and you can't carry anything else.
Nice video! Still have more pros then cons to have the Mistral stay on the server. Not so much on how the missile preforms itself but more on how it stacks against what other helicopters and what they are capable of doing (Hind I'm looking at you). Weather it stays or goes, it was fun to try out!
I love this kind of underhanded and aggressive gameplay. The best way to get a kill is when the enemy has no idea you're there until they're a pile of spare parts. Even better when they're just taking off, low, slow and heavy. Cheffs Kiss! *
If a hind can carry 4 plus atgms, I think it deserves a spot
I almost got this helicopter, but bought the Hind instead. No regrets. But whenever I face a mistral, I get scared.
ja foi removido do serve entao ta de boa kkkkkkkkk
Buy both and just eat bread for the week
As a hind bro that was shot down in Hama. I was completely oblivious about this change on the server and having to look for a danger like this. I bet those hinds just had no idea. Gotta give it time to see how the balance turns out. Pedro does see these gazelle pretty far away.
Not being able to carry these on the ECW server is the only thing that has kept me from getting this module.
Give the Hinds a reason to take anti air too. Makes the heli game more of a chess game. People will adapt.
14:57 it looks like the Gazelle is wearing a little Tophat XD Ngl, I love having the Mistrals for self defense, I mainly run the Gazelle to drop off recon troops, and you can hardly take any armament and fuel with two guys in the backseat, two mistrals are perfect by their weight to still have some time on station without having to worry about fuel
Damn excellent gunnery from that Hip My 2 favorite helicopter right now, Hip and Gaz. I'm so glad that Polychop did the right thing and fix the gaz retrospectively rather than cut loss
The Gaz was one of my favorite modules to fly on the ECW server until it was borked with the second to the last fix making it difficult to fly with the normal load out. Of course, the most recent fix remedied this problem but still, you were relegated to either hunting Hinds/Hips at close distances with your gun and doing recon or doing recon and blowing 4 things up on the grounds before getting blown up yourself as the Gaz carried no defensive weapons when loaded with HOT missles. Having A2A capabilities expands the Gaz's capabilities and makes it more of an attractive module to fly on the ECW server. Having the capability of carrying two A2A missles and a gun pod would make it even more fun and give it capabilities similar to the Hind. Perhaps, this type of loadout would make the Gaz "more fair" if players think a Gaz with 4 a2a missles makes it too powerful for the map.
Its a nice balance, havent seen many gaz slots taken unlike its initial release of the mistral. As a gaz pilot this creates pressure on opposing heli pilots to be more vigilant and not relying on ewr to stay low from aim 9ps.
12:07 good ol' taxiway take off.
Bro that was me that shot you down you were my first air to air pvp kill in dcs lmao
Dude that's awesome, my first air to air PVP kill was also in Enigmas cold war and was a 30mm kill from my hind onto a pair of Hueys who were flying abreast in a valley towards me. This was before Hinds had R60s.
The Gazelle have come a long way for sure! The mistral feels really strong but in my experience it's not just point and click. Good to know that I suck in this case and people have been able to use properly lmao
Also your game is lagging too much dude. Its not normal. Maybe some mods?
Well I hope we don't judge the Mistral performance by it's spawn camping potential😅
Follow up on my last comment. I made a quick mission 4 Hinds (AI Rookie) VS 1 Gazelle with AA missiles. Round 1 I shot 4 missiles and 0 hit they all went for flares. Round 2 Again shot 4 and 1 Hit the rest went for flares. That was shooting from a range of around 2.5m. Going to play aorund a little more but so far I would say an aware pilot would have very little trouble avoiding them.
We basically did the exact same test but in a live environment it's not playing out that way. I am not sure if it's maybe people playing in multiplayer with lower settings and it is having an issue with the missile trails not rendering correctly or what. But the hit rate is absolutely insane on the Mistral.
I absolutely love the dynamic brought by the Gazelle to ECW server.
The end made me so happy! Love the Mi8! Not because I hate the Gazelle like so many do, just a big Mi8 fan! xD So rarely see people kill stuff with them! Also, the Mistral seem really potent, I should give it a go! :D
That is some flying. You downed that frogfoot right into an apartment building! Then after all that you got shot down by a Mi 8. Irony!!!
we need blue aa chopper and this gives the gazelle a reason to be here again
I fear no man, but a gazelle with a Mistral. That scares me
while im happy to see the Mi-24's get a taste of their own medicine, im not a huge fan of the helos getting all aspect missiles and the fixed wing air superiority aircraft getting rear aspect. i dont know if it could be done but i think if you could put more advanced weapons have an associated spawn cost with them that would be nice. similar to how the Mig-29 and F-14 work. anyways keep up the great work ECW is my fav DCS server.
I'm a hind main, and i think the blue having the mistral will really spice things up for us heli pilots. It should definitely stay.
Hi, I understand this is a test but seeing more and more added to blue while red seems to only be getting its toys taken away is a little frustrating. Mainly the r3r. While it can be used in frontal aspect it often missed for varying reasons, and overall seemed to be balanced. It seems like it was just taken away because of people complaining that didn't understand the missile. Don't know if this is just me but I wanted to take the time to voice my observations. RIP r3r :(
There is a bug regarding the R-3R, it was not giving launch warnings on RWRs. :( I love trash missiles so therefore I love the R-3R. We are trying to make noise to raise more awareness on this bug so it can get fixed.
@Enigma89 alright, thanks. Hope it gets fixed. Mistral went way too hard, btw. Against ai that have superhuman missile detection, it eats flares, but with the hip/hind and their reduced cockpit visibility, the thing hits like a truck.
Syria is mostly an open map with less cover than the Caucasus. I am mostly a Red player, but the blue need their A2A missile for the helicopter. When I tested Mistrals and I had limited success against the Hinds. Lots of misses and needing 2 for a kill. When I flew the Hind, I was spamming Petrovich to search in front of me and he found me all the targets. I got shot down in the Hind by Mistrals when I was careless and was flying high without the care in the world. I found Gazelle to be more deadly up close with it's GIAT rounds as it's more maneuverable than the Hind and is much easier to fly.
Since the updated flight model and changes to HOT employment (Especially autohover) the Gaz has been fairly pointless. This gives it a role without really changing game dynamics. Keep it.
As someone who plays on the server from time to time and almost exclusively flies on Red, I can see this being a pain in my arse but at the same time I think it's for the better. I can carry 4 Aphids on my Hind AND 4 ATGMs as well as 40 80mm rockets......it's hardly unfair to allow a blue chopper with the ability to effectively lash out. At the moment it's only skilled pilots with the Gazelle or Huey who can really pose a threat as far as rotary goes unless I'm not paying attention and literally let them jump me. Gazelle is a cool chopper and I own it (I've got all the helis), I might have to give it a try both with the mistral and with the ATGM, to date I've only flown it with the ATGMs with a friend as the co-pilot gunner and that wasn't on as good a server as Enigmas CW but rather a PVE server.
Nice ! Its good that on this channel you don't ingore the mig29 as much as everyone,would love to see more mig29 content,keep it up !
I will keep it in mind, I have a flanker video coming up in the near future
Mistral is awesome!!!
Please keep the mistral gazelle, was so much fun, and the very limited ammo balances it. If it still needs nerfing just allow a gazelle with only two mistral missiles
It'll make a good escort for hueys! Keep it!
@enigma89 did you guys end up keeping the mistrals or not?
no
Hopped on last night and didn't see the Mistral's when I tried to re-arm......changes made?
We had to take them off as they were too strong. It lasted about a week.
I like it. It’s not to op as it’s range is quite limited, but it gives the Gazelle which is a very Cold War aircraft, a actual job to do on ECW. I can see myself using it to escort Hueys on troop drop missions as Bluefor is sadly lacking in helos compared to red. It’s certainly not as good as a Hind with it’s ability to carry a mix of ata and atg in a single load out. Leave it in I say
I know it is very early to talk about the F-104 Starfighter that is coming out, but how likely is it to be on the Cold War Enigma server? Given the extreme characteristics of the jet and the 'Team' side it will be on. I don't see how it would fit with the balancing of the server. It isn't a good ground pounder as far as I know and it can't turn well at all with it's very low AOA limit and it is untouchable compared to the other jets on the server with it's speed and altitude. I really want it to work on the server so I can follow it's progress and ultimately buy it, but I don't know your opinion on it when it comes to balancing it on your server and playing DCS historical multiplayer is my main hobby. My purchasing philosophy is currently based on your Cold War Server and WWII historical servers.
I will give you an answer but I would like for you to read my entire response. The short answer is we will have it on. The long answer is that my answer doesn't matter. Timelines for modules in DCS are closer to a decade than a single year. Either of us can get hit by a bus in the next 5 years and we will both not see it on the server. So the fact that it was announced does not matter. I would really encourage you to temper your expectations. It is really easy to get caught up into the hype train in DCS but it is exhausting. These module announcements don't matter. What matters is core gameplay changes to the game. If there aren't major core gameplay changes in 5 years, not you nor I will be wanting to play DCS then.
@@Enigma89 Yeah DCS has it's flaws and things often get overlooked. Who knows. Culture seems to move very fast these days. I was hoping for two years maximum until early access. As it's not a modern fast jet like the F-15. Their is already an objectively good Starfighter mod out now.
Clutch MI-8. That dude rules.
so are the mistrals in or out now on ECW?
Would love to see this be made permanent but inagine it won't be
Everyone compares to to and vs the Hind. And in that regard I say it can stay. But vs jets it seems too good, which is an issue.
Yea 11:41 I have to get this helicopter
We had to remove the Mistral, it was a bit too cracked
@@Enigma89 Sad Face
Why specifically 12 minutes and specifically for the A-10? I guess A-10 is because it is the most popular module maybe, but why 12 minutes?
Specifically the a-10 because it's blue main mud mover. 12 minutes because after you start up take off and fly to your destination, do nothing, then immediately turn around and rtb that's another 12 minutes. With start up time, taxi, take off, all together it's about 30 minutes and you haven't done anything yet. To me it seems reasonable to play and get somewhere, have somewhat of an impact and rtb within an hour.
It's Gazover.
For only 1KG of HBX, Mistrals seem to do a lot of damage.
when Ka-50 ❕
Nice of you to be a good sport and leave your position lights on😄 didn't help the opfor though...
I noticed rust as well.
When it was announced, I was convinced it was a bad idea. After thinking about it and playing around though, my opinion has changed: I don't have enough experience to tell for sure, but I believe the Mistral to be a better missile than the R60M. However, that's not the only factor that comes in when one thinks of balance on the server, since the Mistral's competitor is specifically the Hind-borne R60M. It's a very different deal IMO, and the difference in airframe must be considered: The Hind is an overall better airframe: better speed, engine power, firepower, loadout capacity and troop capacity. As a mainly red fixed wing player, i haven't eaten many Hind R60S at all, but i've shot some and got a fair amount of kills with them. I think I understand the pressure that those represent to blue players, whether they be in fixed wings or helos, especially given that the Hind can use Shturms for A-A (especially effective on helos) to kill without any chance of defeating the guiding system in itself and having to rely solely on manoeuvres instead of flares. The Gaz, on the other hand, is a more manoeuverable aircraft that's fighting an uphill battle on the Hind. In a gunfight, which was the usual Gaz/Hind matchup up until this week, the Gaz had to sneak up to get good chances at a kill, or take the head-on and hope not to catch the single 30mm that it would take to kill it, all in the hope of getting on the Hind's flanks or read and dumping 20 rounds at least to kill an engine or cut off its tail. I find the gun fight very entertaining, and i've absolutely loved playing it from both sides. But the Gaz is just so helpless at range. Against 2-4 R60Ms, 4-6 Shturms and a superior gun on an airframe more suited for combat, stealth and chance are the only hopes. In that regard, i'm very much in favour of leaving the Mistral on the Gaz, forcing players to specialise into A-A in exchange of getting a better missile, in the hopes of getting the 2 hits it usually takes on a hind to snatch the kill. If the Hind was to flare and manoeuvre enough (which it can with 192 flares) and the Gaz come from a previous engagement, the Hind could run the Gaz out of ammo and then either chase and run it down or just stabilise and exeute it with a Shturm. When it comes to fixed wings, the Mistral is a lot of added pressure, but I think it's something that can be lived with and that Blue players have learned to deal with long ago, and that would be significantly improved if Helos were to show on EWR like you intended earlier this summer. For the sake of balance, if the Mistral was to be removed, i'd personally find it better if the R60M was also taken away, the Shturm being a big enough advantage in A-A on its own.
The issue is that the R60M is a very poor missile when firing it from a very slow launch platform (Hind). The range is very bad and its a very localized threat. The Mistral on the other end has a lot more range especially when you compare it to the other missiles on the server. This starts to change the feeling of these helicopter-launched missiles. The Hind using a2a feels very defensive, while the Mistral feels very offensive, you are actually hunting planes. This sort of makes it an issue because we insulate the helicopters quite a bit on the server. But then when they become capable to hunting (not defending vs) planes, it starts to make our other decisions out of step. It was a test and we had some laughs but ultimately, things were fine as they were, on the whole. The Hind is one of the main producers for red and it is hunted by planes and it can defend itself if planes attack it in a lazy way. We saw in the stats that the Mistral had one of the highest hit rates with its missile that was on par or exceeded the plane missiles. It's a bummer because we would really like to see helicopter duels on the server but we just simply do not have the helicopters to make it happen.
@@Enigma89 Would it be an option to allow only two mistrals for the Gazelle? The way you showed it in this video you got a lot of value out of the time spent on this sortie. However, as it takes I would guess 20-30min to actually get to an enemy airfield, doing so with only two mistrals would mean an investment of about an hour to maybe get two kills, compared to the four you got here. It gets much harder to get heli to fixedWing kills closer to the frontlines as there the enemies are actually on the lookout and/or moving quite fast, so I believe this would make it a mostly defensive weapon. Adding to this, without the ability to take any other weapons, a Gazelle would be reduced to a more passive role, focusing on defending ground targets or running recon/SOF troops.
Let's leave both missiles , that's fair. PS If you remove both missiles, it will be a hunting season on helicopters by the planes.
Hama is an outlier with cover around the airfield on a Syria map. Most airfields won't let any helicopter get close with their Vulcans and Rolands
I don't know how can someone tolerate such stutters in 2023. Trees with 2 sprites like it's 1996.
I was thinking that about the 2D sprites as well. I hope that's because he has the terrain graphics turned down, but I don't know for sure.
Keep it as A/G is pretty much a no go from my experience in the Gazelle because HOT lack useful range.
Those Hinds deserve this, Even if it's just for a while 😁 The missile Itself is probably to op. Shame
This'll make some red bros even more red. You can always see a hind but very rarely can you see a gazelle until its too late. The Mistral's seekers are deadly accurate.
I don’t have any experience flying helos in DCS but I spend a lot of time on your server. In that time it’s quite rare I actually engage helos in a fixed wing because I don’t really know where best to look in order to find them, or how they approach flying in a way to avoid being seen by me in the first place in order for me to sort of reverse engineer their likely positions by their expected behaviour. But because they’re generally not a threat to me, it doesn’t really matter in the long run. Across the last 3 months I think I’ve found helis maybe 5/6 times and sometimes after strafing them, lost vis during the go around and never actually got the kill because they’ve limped back to base. This thing looks like a serious, SERIOUS threat to that status quo. You were actively hunting players, not just acting in self defence; considering EWR neglects to report helos that’s far too much power imo. Especially when launched from such a small, nimble platform - the Mistral launches don’t even seem that visible and the range looks absolutely insane, other AA missiles are very easy to spot visually when launched. I would be happier to accept their presence if either they were an exception to the EWR report removal, or they were limited to 2 launches rather than being able to carry 4.
Well you do that, then we need the Apache; and it’s Cold War aircraft as well. Just limit the load out.
Bring back r3r
Helicopter damage models are such crap lmao... I don't even bother trying to shoot them down.
Also what is that two frame wind string... So janky.
They are a bit, I was flying on the Cobra server last night and moved to guns to kill an MI-8 that was trying to resupply an airbase and asides from the fact that the AI know when I've fired a missile and so spaff flares even if there's no way their crew could have possibly seen me, the thing absorbs so much damage from the 20mm on the F-14. I had the same issue engaging a different one with the 30mm on the SU-25T. Literally eats BMPs and BTRs yet an MI-8 absorbs those rounds like a sponge
Hello enigma please less syria and more caucasus thank you
We are going to be pivoting the server to be more focused on Syria. Caucasus is just not a good map
@@Enigma89 im broke
@@spinningsquare1325 wait for half-price sale
I can't stand people like this. "oh let's just kill people as they're taking off and waste their time and fun" it's not cool.
It’s allowed on the server and part of the game . You can take off from safer airfields to counter or set a trap of your own
No shitstral please.