Is it My Mind or The Witness Consciousness? | Swami Sarvapriyananda
Swami Sarvapriyananda clarifies the subtle differences between the mind and the witness consciousness. This video is part of a Q&A from May 27, 2018.
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Vedanta Society of New York is affiliated with the Ramakrishna Order of India. In fact, this is the Order's first Center started by Swami Vivekananda, in 1894. It was a historic event, for the seed of the world-wide Ramakrishna Movement was sown here in New York over a century ago. Swami Sarvapriyananda is the present Resident Minister and Spiritual Leader of the Vedanta Society of New York.
To further clarify, the FUNCTION of the mind is to “ generate thoughts” or in Patanjali’s terms, it’s referred to as modification of the mind, meaning thoughts. Anytime you jump from 1 thought to another, there is a modification of the mind. In between 2 successive thoughts, there is no modification, or the mind has become STILL. When one is in that state where there are no modifications of the mind, meaning there is BLANKNESS, there still is AWARENESS or CONSCIOUSNESS, but devoid of THINKING. When one is in that STATE, it is the WITNESS CONSCOUSNESS. By the difficulty is, how long can one hold that state of stillness ? Sooner or later, WITHOUT REALIZING, one INVOLUNTARILY goes back to thinking or causing modifications of the mind & the Witness Consciousness( WC) has been abandoned or lost. So the whole purpose of Spiritual Sadhana, is to be able to hold that state where there aren’t any modifications of the mind, meaning One is able to use his Will Power & deny the generation of any thought. In other words One has the Power to stop thinking when one decides to. Then one can be in a continuous state of WC. T The question posed was slightly erroneous. The person asked that if the mind witnesses the mind, then how can one be in the WC as there is no subjective field & object being observed. One must conceptually understand that the function of the WC is to “ NOT THINK” but just OBSERVE without THINKING or without any MODIFICATIONS. If you are thinking, you are NOT in WC, but still thinking. In short, cultivate the habit of Observing without labeling what you are observing, that way you are in WC. It’s not very easy for sure. This is a capability that is acquired after many years of Sadhana.
this was very helpful
Thank you for explaining
One of the best answers I got while seeking myself... It's completely changed my opinion in who is watching what
Can you please simplify what you understood , so tht i can fill the pit i had dug !
@@rishisapkota6259 I can explain, If during meditation, you are thinking that your mind is restless or relaxed, then it is your mind which is introspecting and not Pure Consciousness. The one which is aware of your thinking mind is Pure Consciousness. As the name implies, it is simply awareness. When mind is added to Pure Consciousness, you become aware of the mind or experience the mind. This is what I have understood, If I am wrong please feel free to correct me.
@@santoshsharma7979 yeah i also think so !
@Be Healthy Wealthy and Wise if during meditation, you weren't aware of anything not even yourself then you were really meditating. If you become lost in meditation and when suddenly you come out of it, you see that much time has passed but you didn't feel the time passing then the meditation was successful. If this isn't the case then you were just thinking and not meditating.
That question was such a great one... Followed by a very satisfying answer, Swami. Thank u both.
How can you say the answer was satisfactory? Swami Ji never answered the question. Pls listen to it again.
@@DharmendraSingh-lq2rc this is the problem with adavaita Vedanta, Buddhist language of emptiness does not have this pitfall. Mind essence of empty yet cognizant is the consciousness.
No answer. Just a worthless playing around.
@@purumrSo by that logic no consciousness during deep sleep coz mind is not cognizant 😂
@@purumr ੀੀੲ
The awareness(which is without attributes) willingly assumes the attribute of witnessing for the sake of experience. When awareness or consciousness relieves itself from it's witnessing quality it stands shining alone as the one that lights up all witnessing. There is no witness without the witnessed
My deep gratitude Swamiji.....
I myself had been stuck to this doubt for so long. Thank you swamiji for the answer. Though I understand it but yet it still remains elusive.
It never says, Understand the self but know it.
He who says I know the Brahman, actually doesn't know it.
Me too, same. Still remains a bit elusive
When you experience the witness consciousness, you get separated from the mind and the mind is switched off suddenly and no thoughts arise. Meditation can lead you to that state. I have read somewhere that if you go further, even the witness consciousness will dissolve into brahman and the jeevathma gets "moksha" or liberation from the cycle of birth and death.
@Be Healthy Wealthy and Wise the experiencer is the one who experience. Brain is only a lump of flesh that can store signals. That's the best I can say.
It would seem that I have dug a very big hole for myself!
How subtle the God is. How easy it feels when I here swamyji explaining God (Consciousness) oh Lord Guide all of us towards your attainment. Give us the breakthrough. Aum Shanti.
The phenomenon of spiritual awakening is witnessed in all the great religions of the world in the course of man's higher evolution there arises a new yearning the hunger of the soul
great clip! thanks
most important Q&A !
Very nice question
Pranam swamiji🙏
Dear swami, thank you for this diamond teaching ❤ This is the most direct pointing and has lead to immediate peace. It is now obvious there is truly nothing to be done. Simply to relax and allow life to live itself and in the process, the doer gets absorbed/evaporates. Shanti, Shanti. Shanti.
This is liberating
This is such a jackpot question. Pranam to both the questioner as well as Swamiji but it was a golden opportunity missed to point deeper directly to Turiya. The "breakthrough" could have happened right then in 2019. The questioner was ready to go deeper. Referring to 3:26 to 4:05 Swamiji clearly knows the teachings but admits the breakthrough has not happened to him yet. (3:40 "We don't know it yet"). It is not my place to say too much; it is the 2nd bird (Mundaka Up) that "notice the absence" of thoughts including the absence of the I-thought that appears in the waking state, in the dreaming state but absent during deep sleeping state. All along it has been only Turiya or God eveasdropping, secretly watching/witnessing. That which is looking out of your/my (wisdom) eyes is immortal but mistaken to be the mortal I. Namaste. This is breakthrough!!!
Thank you so much Swami.
Very profound query. Thanks.
I keep coming back here
Thank you very much Swamiji 🙏🏽🙏🏽🙏🏽🙏🏽🙏🏽🙏🏽
Thank you,Thank you !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Great question and answer
Pranam Sarvaji🙏
Introspection and witness clearly explained
I have reached to this conclusion with my theory , your description is matching with my conclusion that witness precedes Awareness or understanding or knowingness or not knowingness . And we don't do anything, everything is happening on it's own is also one of my conclusion.
Wonderful explanation, Swami ji.
Jai!
Lovely clarity thanks swamiji
Om shanti
Namaskaram Guru 🙏 🙏🙏 🙏🙏 🙏
That was such an incredible answer. Awesome!
🙏🙏🙏 Guruji .
OM
It is easy to concentrate the mind on external things, the mind naturally goes outwards; but not so in the case of religion, or psychology, or metaphysics, where the subject and the object, are one. The object is internal, the mind itself is the object, and it is necessary to study the mind itself - mind studying mind -Raja yoga, Swami Vivekananda
जय श्री कृष्ण🙏🙏🙏🙏🙏🙏🙏🙏🙏🙏🙏🙏
Swamiji you are simply fabulous. You made it so simple.
Can you please explain it.
Jai Sri Ramakrishna Jai Sri Ramakrishna Jai Sri Ramakrishna Jai Sri Ramakrishna Jai Sri Ramakrishna Jai Sri Ramakrishna
Pain is also a thought in the mind.. that means..no mind = no experience. Assume, a person is given anaesthesia, he won't experience pain. Anything in your awareness is a thought in your mind.
Exactly true
I too see so. Is Consciousness n Thought same? Thought is bound by 'Time-Space-Causation', Consciousness is not bound by 'Time-Space-Causation' Pain/pleasure are nothing other than Thoughts, So If you can simply Drop 'Time-Space-Causation', all Thoughts vanishes, and what's always there Remain, The Consciousness!
Answer ends with same question itself. It's the mind noticing the mind.
Yes, however that noticer is not trapped is the key!
Yes , the mighty mind which is notice to mind may be known as god or consciousness....... Just like in Hinduism we always say भगवान सब कुछ धेख ता हे, or in islam muslim say अल्ल्हा सब कुछ धेखता हे😂.......
Thank you Swamiji and the questioner. I have been struggling with this as well. Very good question and very grateful for the answer.
Mind is a consciousness which as put on limitations actually you are unlimited.Got it....
The mind (manas/मनस) perceives. Witnessing is also an element of that perception. The self (consciousness/ atman/ आत्मन ) also witnesses. What is the difference between the witnessing done by the mind and the self? Since the self is unchanging and always witnessing, how does the mind's witnessing create any problem for the self? How can the mind attain identity (अहंकार /ahankara), when the self already and eternally has it?
DIVINE GRATITUDE
So our conciousness only here to witness.. Nothing else
SUPERGOOD
The pain 'ouch' caused by reflex action and experienced by mind Where is consciousness ?
Sundararajan Dorairaj ..funny you mention that...I had issue with that when I heard it, and looked at it as a mistake that was not corrected...like an error in a flow chart presentation. I don’t think that example follows suit with the 5 sheaths. Keen of you to see that....your attention was focused.
@@prospero6337 It is not that I do not understand Sat-chit, but I am playing devil's advocate role to harness my deeper clarity, if someone throws more light it would help me in harnessing the understanding in terms of validation
Sundararajan Dorairaj ...I did not see the pain response as sat chit or the consciousness awareness responding...as the pain is non permanent, as is the reaction...the consciousness observer would be behind the body and mind reaction unchanged....the body reacts in pain and the subtle reacts following that but the observing “witness” consciousness reacts to none. This is where I thought you were going. All Good Things :>
❤️
🙏🏻🙏🏻🙏🏻
This is the crucial issue, whether AV is a bunch of beautiful but mere philosophical ideas or the living experience and final liberation of human problems. It can not have any dependent origin due to its noumenological nature, so even the most clever intellectual reasoning or deepest faith can not substitute it due their limitations and impermanence. The tragi-comedy of life, the laws of karma in our relative world also determine who attain this enlightenment by freeing itself from totality of mind. Even actions tend to positive karma are fully under laws of former cause-effect chains.
Please repeat this talk in details 🙂
The new urge the aspirant is not satisfied with the finite and fleeting pleasures of life physical mental but longs for the Eternal and Infinite which.alone can bring nourishment and peace to hungry soul
But Osho says that if the consciousness expands to a certain level u can seperate the body sleeping from the witness consciousness. Seems like it was Buddha who first introduced the concept of witnessing the sleep.
Becoz every spiritual practice even goal of samadhi and moksha is about mind.... may be mind enabling itself to go there. While real you is already in samadhi and moksha!
🙏🙏🌼
I think the only way out is to get rid of chitta mala... otherwise drig drishya vivek “ practice” wont help, because of the mind’s Introspective ability...and if we dont “practice “ the act of witnessing consciousness at all, then the sadhana will not move ahead .
Can u please share the full video..
So to abide as the witness I have to attain Wu-Wei (Non-Action). Because Non-Action or action-less action in Taoism is precisely abiding in the state of the one who said "ouch".
There is this big difference between the thoughtlessness in waking state and deep sleep - in waking state even when there is no thought arising in the mind, one is still experiencing the world by five senses. So the waking world is there. But in deep sleep there is no world let alone thoughts. There is no object of knowledge. Only the pure consciousness with the veiling power of Maya is there in deep sleep. When there is no world, no mind, no 'vritti' how can such question about ' not feeling the same way of the thoughtlessness' come. It is obvious that you don't feel it in deep sleep, as you need mind for that yet you are aware of the state deep sleep. Stick to that awareness. That is you. You alone exist with Maya in deep sleep in your causal body.
Maya can be unveiled by True knowledge...
That's a great explanation 🙏🙏🙏🙏
@@sumanaghosal5072 theoretically, yes. True.
Why do you say that Maya exists in deep sleep.mind itself is a component of Maya.Mind is absent in deep sleep
@@shreyasj6437 In deep sleep if Maya is not there then you would have realized yourself as Brahman. But that is not the case. Deep sleep experience is attached with ignorance(In fact any of the waking, dreaming, sleeping experience is due to ignorance or Maya). But Samadhi is exactly same as Deep sleep but you are fully conscious, so there is no Maya or veil of ignorance in Samadhi. Yes mind shuts down during deep sleep, but there is a specific definition of mind in Vedanta e.g 'Chittah, Ahamkara etc which is called the Subtle body ('Sukshma Sharir). It shuts down. But due to ignorance you stay in Causal body ('Karana Sarira') during your deep sleep. The subtle body shuts down in deep sleep not the Causal body. Therefore Maya is there (or conclude the otherway round).
善哉 善哉（great great!） Thanks alot swami ..
Thank you I need full part Anyone help me please
🙏🙏🙏🙏🙏
I get what Swami says at 1:15 about how "Its a practice of witnessing the movements of the mind, and because it's a practice that you can do or not do, and therefore this can't be the witness consciousness", but I struggle to understand what he means just before this, at 1:10, when he says "The mind can watch itself, you can introspect and look at the thoughts coming up in the mind" how exactly can the the mind watch the mind (or as Swami says, "the mind watching itself"), how can the mind, being unconscious, watch itself? Is it not still the witness (atman) who is ultimately watching the mind, but by means of dharana (concentration) rather than witnessing the mind directly, without the use of the mental faculty of dharana? Surely, whether using dharana for watching the mind, or watching it directly (without using dharana) it's still ultimately the witness (atman) that is watching the mind, isn't it?
👌👌🙏🙏🙏
Then how after anesthesia effect we could not even experience the absence of deep sleep, but it is like a everything is instant and no past time experience during sleep.
Then how during deep sleep, we are not aware of the experience of absence but after getting up only we feel it.
how would swami explain sages who are aware of their body sleeping??
My best ideology
Love J Krishnamurti study 📖
I love how at the end it says “ Thank you for watching ! “ maybe they will change it to “ thank you for witnessing “ 😂
😊
Consciousness is seen as everything including you and me and exists without everything including you and me just as clay is seen as all pots and exists without them.
There is 24/7 witnessing awareness, awake, during dream sleep as well deep sleep.Even deep sleep.I've experienced this. As for self observation, non critical non judgemental self observation as taught by Eckhart Tolle and Gurdjieff if people just understood and practiced that much the majority of global insanity, personal insanity would cease.This question of whether witnessing is of the mind or not seems to be irrelvant .
There is no Witnessing in Deep Sleep, if you experience witnessing in deep sleep, it is not deep sleep.
Convincing explanation TU
Is there any difference between Drig drishya viveka and Vivekachudamani ? What's the core understanding ? Isn't that I'm the Witness Consciousness !!!
6:02
The problem is the “I” that thinks it has a problem. Drop the I
How?? I can't drop I, it happens by itself
abhishek singh ok Buddha, you’re just perfect lol
@@abhisheksinghbhadoriya1926 even the i is a thought.
So first Swamiji says if you try to be an observer of your thoughts that's just the mind being introspective, but at the end he asks what notices the feeling of being trapped in the mind? I'm missing the distinction between the two.
Hello Try this one...... There is X(son) and Y(Father) and there is third thing which is the relationship of father and son between them. It is this relationship which pervades them and is link between the two. Now what is the link between the son and the relation of father and son (please follow carefully or you'll miss it.). Similarly what's the link between Father and the relation of father and son. If you follow carefully you'll notice that you have gone into a term called ''infinite regression''. So what's the problem? The problem is, as pointed out by Shankaracharya.......that there's a mistake in our core understanding of the universe......it is not divide into millions and millions of atoms (parmanu)......it is all one, without even a second. Thanks and regards Hare Krishna
Yes ,when you observe the thoughts ,your whole attention is on the thoughts but in later case your attention is on the observer of the thoughts and not the observed.This is the Self Enquiry ,Raja- marga (Quickest way)to realization.. Hope u understood😊
@@beejumittahb8527 hi, I am an illusion responding in illusory words to your illusory words directed at another illusory speech. How can illusion, no matter how logical it seems, be trustworthy?
@@beejumittahb8527 ..thank you. that is very deep, truthful and profound.
@Hustle Loy**It hard to answer this question. You and I may have a different take on what is Islam. If your understanding is that Islam means the complete surrender of the self, then I follow Islam. Complete surrender of the self means that there is only Allah left. Its like the flame of a candle meets its lord, the sun. What remains? I am happy to hold on to and become what is more lasting than to think that I am this body. If A comes from B, then A must have been a "component" of B. I am from Allah and to Allah is my return. The return is a waking up to reality that A never existed except in an illusion!
The topic is complex for me. Let me ask a doubt. Suppose i am in a class and instead of listening to the lecture i am just focused on swiddling my pen. So my consciousness is fixed on my pen i. e. as i understand my witness consciousness is absorbed in the act of swiddling my pen. The voice of the lecture is still there but my consciousness is not witnessing it? So isnt my witness consciousness narrow??? A very big thanks in advance to whoever answers this. question
You are witnessing the mind which is focused on the pen. When you separate yourself from the mind, you experience the witness consciousness outside the mind.
I am struggling with this question currently.
same here , any progress ??
Me too....for a long time 😁
What is the purpose of this discussion
The question is, "Why can't be in witness consciousness in deep sleep state, I have no sense of it, why?" Since the witness consciousness is present in deep sleep, we should be able to know, even if there is no object to be aware of. I should experience the bliss state of Samadhi. Why don't I? Swami Ji didn't answer that question. He told a whole bunch of stories that had nothing to do with the question. Can you please answer the question Swami Ji? I don't want to know what introspection is, I already know that. I want to know the answer to the question. Please, it's been a year. Thank you.
there is slight difference between samadhi and deep sleep in deep sleep you are conscious but there nothing be conscious of no mind no instrument no worldly I
In deep sleep, "you" are not the real you.(This was the reply I got for the same question I asked from another yogi). I guess what it means is even in deep sleep you are with maya or ignorant of your true nature. In samadhi, your body is sleeping but the real you are awake and conscious. Just my 2 cents.
@@RK-ln5kx your answer is correct, yogis have practical experience so they can answer it directly.
Conscious mind who introspect is not consciousness. Consciousness is when there is no mind and thinker. When there is no thought and still you know that you exist ,then it's consciousness.
Hazar bachhar dhare chiner sange samparko. Samparkoi roilo.
Mintu Saren...The explanation is very simple!!...i don't know what confused you!!!...
I am aware that I am aware of something. Is it consciousness? Expect an answer from any member.
true awareness is who witness that
I think Swamiji given ans at the end, Yes , the mighty MIND which is notice to our individual mind may be known as god, भगवान, आल्ल्हा or consciousness....... Just like in Hinduism we always say भगवान सब कुछ धेख ता हे, or in islam muslim say अल्ल्हा सब कुछ धेखता हे😂.......
Swamiji Pranam What is life ? Just different experience you go through , with time goes away , you became old , can not do any thing what you missed to do thing what you want to finished ? And of the life if you are lucky you get help from spiritual person , then realize, what you missed ? No way to go back ! What is life ? Swamiji ?
Hindi version he kisike pas kiya
I intellectually understand me, the Atman . is it called realisation ??
No. There are no more questions after realisation.
@@captvyas got it. a far to go. no probs, I have a lot of time. thank u.
@@pratikbose2528 Not far as you say..if u have understood it intellectually nw very little work is left...Just practice what u hav understood with perseverance.. Breakthrough will come soon😊
@@rishikesh_p thank u
@@captvyas beautiful answer... i dont know if many people see the humorous tone to it
Mind cannot Watch Mind. You can introspect and think about yourself but you cannot watch. Watching is not the quality of the mind. A thought can introspect on another thought but the witnesses remains wittnessing.
If so ,mind can go without witness. Witnesses grow consciousness.
Unless seeing athman everyone tied with illusions. Ohm
This guy us faking the accent. Irritating part is bringing sanskrit unnecessary.
It is really not important, just surrender to Soul and live by it, be it. That's all. Don't get confused; "What is what and who is who, the witness etc., blah blah" ha ha ha Make it simple and stay away from a mental institution.
I feel that im trapped in the mind. What notices this that i feel the feeling of being traped in the mind? Is that one trapped in the mind? No, that one is not trapped. That is you, the witness.
kids said 3🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣
"whatever I do is the mind, what notices that?" the answer is: this is me observing myself obviously. Mate! there is no bloody consciousness. What strange philosophy is being discussed 👎👎👊👊?
There is no me. Me is a concept. The "me" is normally refered to the body, the thoughts, emotions, sensation etc we are having. Is there a "me" apart from that? No, there is not. The me is just a thought giving a name to a group of events being experienced. This "me" we identify with Is EXPERIENCED. In meditation when one is looking for the "EXPERIENCER" this search is also BEING experienced. A real subject "a me" is not existent in direct experience
@Chef Supreme what you are is the "one" watching the mind. Some people call that awareness or the essence of mind (empty cognizance). Other call it Atman. The problem is although that this is not an object that can be experienced. It is the experiencing itself. When you hear, see, feel, sense something at the same time you are aware that this occur. This awareness is who you are. The problem is that this is not knoweable through the mind. The mind only knows objects. Awareness is not an object and it is not something that can be seen, felt, heard etc. Awareness is what you are. Each experience "exist" because there is awareness of it.
@Chef Supreme you are welcome. My advice is to really keep meditating and try to be present with everything that occurs through the day. When for example we see something the attention usually goes on the object or person that is seen. We can also bring the attention to the awareness that seeing is happening. When we are caught up in thoughts about something we can remember to switch the attention to the awareness of the thinking occurring (by noticing that we are caught up in thinking the switch already happens. This "noticing" is the moment when the attention switches from the content of the thoughts to the awareness of the thinking proces itself). In meditation when the mind is still and there is no thinking happening there is a clear awareness of this stillness. According to the mind there is nothing (the mind can only focus on objects) but there is at the same time a clear awareness of this stillness. Once a thought appears again (which is a normal occurrence and not something that is bad) there is an awareness of this happening. Every experience and event that happens "exist" thanks to the awareness of it. An advice that you find a lot of times in advaita is to establish yourself firmly in the awareness of "I AM". This is a non objective knowing. Our mind knows always objects. This is why according to the thinking mind "I am a person, I am a body, I am 30 years old etc ...". When the attention is brought up to the pure awareness of I AM (the awareness of just being, existing ) the mind becomes still. All thoughts stop as this awareness of pure "being" is not an object that can be perceived. It evades every mind perception because it is empty of any attribute. Nevertheless there is a clear awareness of the fact that I am, I exist. We know it by being it. The thinking mind than links this I am to objects that appear in awareness like the body (I am - the body) or the proces of thinking ( I am - thinking). The fact that we are not the thinking mind or a body is evident because thoughts change but we always are. The body has also changed through time (the body I had as a child is totally different according to science than the body now) but we always just are. Awareness is "who" we are. We are it by being it.
@Chef Supreme you write that you can not see anything without the involvement of thoughts. Who says that? There is clearly an awareness that there is nothing to see without the involvement of thoughts. In Buddhism they say that "this not seeing is the supreme seeing". In fact there is nothing to see without thinking. Who you are is not 'something' that can be seen or experienced. It is what makes the whole experience of you as a person possible. When there is no thinking there is still an awareness, a presence that knows. This 'presence' is like an open aware space without any characteristics that could make it something. It is not you - as a person - that knows, the person is known. Knowing (non conceptual direct knowing) is not a function that is possed by somebody. It is what "you" are. Just relax and as you write in the end and let the mind and thinking just be. It is not who you are. Who 'you' are is the knowing of the mind. Every time a thought appears dont get discouraged that it is present. Just stay with it, it will subside from itself. After you have watched your mind for years, you get to know it so well, recognise it so clearly; how tricky, jealous, foolish, covetous, bossy, overpowering, it can be and because 'you' can be aware of it, it cannot carry you away. It is not you who is angry, egoistic etc ... this are impermanent qualities of the mind you are aware off
@Chef Supreme The Ego is trying to watch the movements of the mind!!!...You are the ego ,and you can delude yourself into thinking that you are the witness of the mind,but you are not!!!.... The Practise of Watching the mind and studying its contents and movements is a method to study and discern which thoughts emotions,perceptions, and notions bring Value to the Ego and which bring harm to the Ego!!......Just like you would analyse and observe a piece of rock to learn more about it,similarly study your own mind and its contents!!.... Forget Consciousness and other big concepts!!....All your problems arise from your tumultous relationship with the world and how your Ego responds to its sorroundings!!!...Fix that and you are Sorted(To what ever extent it is possible)....!!....
Made no difference.