Carbide Tipped vs Hole Saw vs Annular Cutter - Which is best to drill thick metal - steel - iron
2018 ж. 12 Ақп.
195 175 Рет қаралды
Comparing and drilling the import ebay/amazon carbide tipped hole saw, to a regular hole saw to an annular cutter. Drilling through thick steel, metal, iron, aluminum.
Here is a link to the carbide tipped hole saw set.
www.ebay.com/itm/10Pc-Carbide...
Behind the Scenes KZhead Channel: / @oldbarnhomestead
Thank you man . You really rescued me of buying these types of hole cutting tools . And i am going to buy the first type you have used . You rescued me of lossing my money because these tools are very expensive
Very helpful video...we were facing the same problems with the carbide tip cutters.Now we will use the annular cutter.
Thanks for the vid. Im looking to cut a 2 inch hole on a couple of 3/8 steel plates at home. --One time deal, kind of thing, and this really helped.
I have used champion brand carbide hole saws and have been very impressed with the hole being +/- 5 thou of nominal dimensions.. For semi precise holes in the mill they are a cheap way to make a few to a hundred holes depending on coolant.
I have found using compressed air blown directly on the cut without using cutting oil works best. We use annular cutters and Milwaukee, and both seem to last longer and cut faster.
I like them. When I discovered the beauty of annular carbide cutters, I went on eBay and got a bunch of Milwaukee steel hangs for an average of $5 each, now if those could hold up, $25 is an awesome deal. For me, the steel hawgs work great. I even did a video on how to use them like 6 years ago.
Excellent video. I would have probably bought one of these, before I saw it in action. Thanks
great video is it possible the spring in the cutter is compressed too much after it cuts a bit
Thanks for the review, you saved me from throwing money away!
Great video.. Thank you for the post!
thanks for the link.. i borrowed a carbide tip hole saw from a tradesmen working on the farm that work on, it had only 2 carbide tips left (the rest had broken off/worn down) and he said be careful as the cost around 200 bucks (nz dollar) well as luck would have it... or murphys law... i broke another tip off.... then his pilot drill bit.. was worried it was gonna cost me a lot...
Have bought these and have used on a regular belt driven pillar drill, have cut 16mm hardened steel plate but used up 2x25mm of these cutters for one hole . The carbide teeth just don’t stay the distance, they’re ok for soft iron but need constant lube and air to keep cutting channel clear of chips. But then for a few $ and made in China you can’t expect to get top notch cutting, best stick to annular cutters, may be more expensive but they’ll stay in your bit box and not in the scrap bin. 👍
I believe you are exactly right. Also do you believe that speed has something to do with the failure? To slow?
very helpful video thanks!
It would be interesting given the comments to see what the higher priced carbide tipped saws do. Someone may have it on yt somewhere. Thanks for sharing, I've wondered about carbide tipped hole saws. I won't waste my time with cheap ones.
This pretty well confirmed my thoughts on those carbide cutters,....maybe they're ok for thin sheet metal or wood, but not for steel, as some of the advertising would suggest. I guess for a cutting depth only 1/2 inch ( 13 mm ) this should tell us all we need to know.
Thanks,I recently bought some on eBay but guess I’ve got nothing to look forward to but I have learned in the past couple days of searching that the annular cutters are probably my best bet so not a total loss.
Thanks for the video. Which Milwaukee hole saw are you using? Is it BiMetal or Carbide? Do you have the model?
The second holesaw is more for thin metals like electical panels and boxes. As an electrician I use 10 different sizes of these on a regular basis. Usually 3/4 inch , 1 inch, 1.25 inch, 1.5 inch, 1.75 inch, 2inch , 2.5 inch , 3 inch and 2 that are specific to metal race for cutting metal studs to run MC through . Ive had my kit for 5 years and have no problems with it. Using it to cut .5 inch plate is not the best idea.
I've used hole saws in the 1 1/4" to 1 1/2" sizes, run them probably too fast, but got excellent results using water as my continuous lube. Got very little degrading in teeth as well. Was able to make many holes in 3/4" steel
I use (more expensive) carbide tip hole saws quite frequently and they work quite well. I use them in a hand drill though. I find they work best with light pressure. I drill primarily 1/4" aluminum with them bit have drilled 1/2" to 3/4" cast iron as well.
What brand do you recommend?
interesting test. I would never use hole saws on steel but have on aluminum several times. Recently I cut 2- 2" holes and 4-1 1/4" holes in 1/2" aluminum plate. Worked fine and Milwukee hole saws still like new. Used my mill head to drive it and used a steady stream of coolant fluid bathing the work. Also used the peck system and cleaned the teeth frequently. i have used hole saws to drill holes in work so I had more room to than use my lathe to bore the hole larger. I would like t get a couple of annular cutters but seems I always put it off and than when I need to make a hole i resort to the hole saws.
Dang, I was pulling for the cutter. I use a hole saw to cut circles that I end up welding together to make wheels for my hand forged barn door hardware. The hole saws work but I sure would like something better and not sure that I can fit an annular cutter into my Delta drill press.
Gary - How did you adapt the weldon arbor bit to you mill?
I have some of those The Carbide hole saws, bought them off eBay and found the same thing. However, they do work great for sheet metal up to about 1/8 inch material. Anything thicker they will fail miserably. Annular cutters are one of the very best means to cut large holes in thick material. But you pay for a good set. The typical hole saw works if you buy a good one, and not the cheap Chinese knock-offs. Most everything is made in Asia now, BUT they also make the top quality tooling, for North American or European Companies. You really do get what you pay for most of the time.
I got a cheap set of those carbide tipped hole saws - not even tried them yet. Can't see them lasting long and yours did pretty much what I am expecting!. I very much like an annular cutter whenever feasible but a good bi-metal hole saw can do OK quite often.
yes sir chris, agree on the regular hole saw, if your in a pinch they work pretty good, just need to do alot of pecking and manual chip evacuation in thicker materials thanks for watching sir
Yes, it looked to me like it was choked with chips before I saw you remove it and take it back to the bench. While the annular cutter is just HSS, it was designed to pull the chips out along the entire length.
yes sir i think you are right
I use a 56mm carbide holesaw at 275rpm to cut 5mm and it works fine using the same lube as you do. Cheers
I use 3/4” Weldon size shank annular cutters in my mill. The arbor for these costs about $75-$100. If you want internal cutting fluid, the ones with that attachment go for about $120 - $160. There are more expensive arbors, and less expensive. The cutters from a high quality maker, such as Fein, go from about $20 for small sizes to about $75 for large ones. These do cut very well, and smoothly. A mill at a slower speed works very well. Smaller drill presses, with less than about a 1 Hp motor, and a not so solid column, not so well. You need power, and speeds below about 400 rpm for 1” cutters, 2” cutters prefer 250. These carbide cutters are really meant for sheet metal, and thinner plate. Even 1/4” can be a problem. By the way, why does your mill have those chunky sounds, even when you’re not cutting?
great info, agree... yea the mill in low gear sounds rough, i mentioned it in soem other videos, need to investigate for sure
thanks for the informative video...you saved me $25.
We use the tct holesaws all the time cutting holes in 316 stainless, theyre 1000 times better than a standard bi metal holesaw. But theyre designed for sheet metal usually only up to around 3mm thick, you can cut larger i cut a 20mm hole in a 25mm thick pice of stainless half one side flip half the other side but it took forever and had to stop and clear chips out of the teeth all the time. They do leave a very clean cut with no burrs though, fantastic when drilling for glands into electrical panels. Would love some annular cutters but we dont have a mill and most of the time the holes i need to cut are machinery and being used in a cordless drill which deffinately rules out an annular cutter lol.
With the carbide cutter you measured the depth not accounting forcthecrelease spring. Any chance your bottoming out the spring before you can cut through the material. I wonder if there only designed for thinner material
A pilot hole may have made it easier to get further down on your work pieces. I agree with your fist drill bitnthat takes out materials fast. We get what we pay for. Thanks for sharing. Enjoy. PS. THE Anual cutters are definitely the way to go and great presentation on your video.
I have good results using Milwaukee hole saws or equal on 1" steel. On larger holes I drill 5/16" holes on the inside edge of the hole to allow the chips to escape from the saw. Slow the drill press down as far as it will go and go slow with lots of coolant. It's takes times and patience but it works. One saw will cut two or three 3" holes. Great video. I always wondered about those carbide saws??
Yeah, I saw that hole trick in another video. Will try it soon. If you can afford it, you can put the hole right in the middle of the cut.
Pretty sure that chatter you are getting with the annular is from you bowing the plate from the force of you pushing down on it with a cutter since you are only supporting 2 sides. Put a board or something under it so it is fully supported and try it and see if it doesn't behave better.
you might be right, but that particular cutter does the same thing on 3/4" material as well.
Id say its related to the speed the mills running at ..
Pretty hard to bow 1/4 plate that short.
This was helpful. I have seen that other set on Amazon. Maybe they are good for sheet metal? I just got an old school B&D Mag Drill and have been looking in to annular cutters. The price of that set is tempting but I think it would just put me $25 away from having somthing that works. Have you looked in to a tool holder that puts the coolant in to the pin that goes into the middle of the Annular cutter? Are you using those pins? For about $40 Amazon has a tool holder that goes from MT3 to 3/4" Weldon coupler. It feeds the coolant in to that pin that goes into the middle of the annular cutter. What annular cutters do you recommend? I assume Tungsten Carbide Tipped (TCT) is the way to go? Thanks!
The closer your piece is to the quill and the less you have to travel will reduce chattering also having a stable set up will help immensely… With annual cutters you want to have constant oil for constant cooling for constant cutting Performance. It will also have the effect of having your tools last longer…. Cool presentation…. Keep on rockin…
I use these kind of hole saws a lot we have to keep lube on it or the bit gets dull. also slower work better
Always good to lube your bits before you put them through their paces... Yeah, I'll close the door on my way out...
i used these already enough to realise i have to turn the workpiece upside down when its about half way trough the workpiece. The pilot hole will be there to help. I Use plenty cold water-lubricant mix and keep it cool as much i can. The water also helps to remove the shivers out of the way. 5-10 mm steel no problem. I made plenty holes into C-profiles. Used it with hand drill, low rpm, high torque.
First hole chattering. Isn't that too fast? From what I have been hearing from some others, 50 or 60 RPM may be smoother and less heat??? Can you get annular cutters for use in a drill press or a geared down hand drill? 3 flats?
Great video and info, but that first holesaw you demonstrated are only rated for 3mm (1/8") depth of cut. Otherwise the teeth break off
i should watch this video before buiying the set ! i use the little 15mm on inox tube of 5mm thickness with a cordless drill, all the teeth melt despate using cutting oil. i'll kept the remaining 11 bit for very thin metal, aluminium, etc. and buy classic hole saw.
I think the first hole with carbide hole saw stopped because that spring on the center bit was pushed solid, not allowing it to go down any more.
The bigger problem is that you get 10 for $25, which shows you that the quality is more than likely pretty low. Then the video shows that they are low quality, not even able to cut through the metal.
@@jtoker9758and you based your analysis on price huh and not considering that it was used for the wrong purpose lol when you misuse your equipment even expensive carbide would complain and stop cutting. what is designed for sheet metal should be tested with sheet metal.
I saw as you did that only one or two teeth were cutting. I would be interesting to check the cutter tip heights to see how much off they are. I suspect a lot.
Nice vide0 n0w we knows annular cutters best..
You have to grind out the gullets on cheap cutters to allow chips to clear, this works well.
Dear Sir, good demonstration. I was considering buying a set of the first set of cutters but your first cut put me off. Clearly annular cutters are much better and also more expensive. Cheers.
Hello Gary, I don't own any of those carbide but it looks like that ejection spring would two block the cutters once it collapsed down. That would lead me to believe they are for sheet metal only. Nice test though. I like the comparisons like this. Take care. Doug
thats a great point! It wasnt on the first one I tried.
I a am from South Africa.. unfortunately if I have to buy Angular cutters for my home use, it is going to cost alot, luckily we have those carbide tipped hole saws at every Hardware store and more.. I use them in a hand drill to cut steel sheet metal up to 8mm thick.. use cutting coil to lube.. and again with fair pressure and decent speed technique.. I drill alot of holes by hand.. the hole saw last me very long time..and it doesn't take me that long either..
How will an annular cutter go in enlarging a plasma cut hole? Will it be destroyed like regular hss drill bit?
I noticed that you didn't use lube on the first attempt with the carbide hole saw (unless you cut out the shot where you lubed it). I wondered if that was the cause of the carbide wearing so fast, but you got the same results with the next carbide hole saw, and you lubed that one right away. So they probably just can't handle steel. Good vid though.
It would be good to see you try a more expensive Carbide tipped hole cutter to see if that performs any better.
Doood! No! Don’t tell him that! Not if he’s gonna treat a nicer hole cutter the way he treated this one!🤨
I have never used cheap carbide cutters like you demonstrated, but have used trade grade brands for years for cutting electric panel holes with excellent results. I wouldn't consider matching a trade grade tool against a machine shop grade tool and expect the same performance. In the machine shop, I would only apply the trade grade tool where I couldn't justify the expense of the annular cutter. I have a drawer full hole saws, because they are inexpensive. I have few carbide cutters, and I treat them with respect, because they are life savers on the electrical job site, but more costly than hole saws. I own twist bits for the machine shop and covet annular cutters.
Great feedback thank you, I was looking at some of these but Starrett not junk. I need to drill 1 3/8 in 3mm plate, I would prefer and annular cutter but they are so expensive and I would need an arbour for my mill so I think Im just going to have to hope the starrett ones are better. I note they do say "for sheet metal" so maybe 3mm and thinker is pushing them a bit far, I guess I'll find out.
I use hole saws all the time cheap and expensive. But that said a shell mill is beast no pecking just coolant and pressure very fast
Where can I purchase the first one you use or can you recommend a good brand
My brotha let me tell you a couple of things to consider on use of TCT cutters. #1 depth of cut on the cutter you used is about 3/16". Your material looks to be 1/4". #2 need to use a mag wand to pull the chips away from the cut. The chips are getting caught up and the cutter is literally trying to recut the chips. If you don't have a mag wand use a blow gun.
Does anyone make annular cutters for standard 1/2" drill press chucks or are they only for milling machines?
I put the body of my hole saw arbor in a collet to hold it more rigid the few times I’ve used a hole saw in my mill.
yes, thats a good point.
I always wondered how to use a carbide tipped hole saw WRONG. Now I know. Thanks
What did he do wrong?
if I only have an ordinary drill press, can I use an adapter to use the annular cutter to cut metal? Thanks
Yes you need a MT to 3/4 Weldon, but you also need a drill press that can spin slow.
thank you for opening my eyes
I was curious about the cheap ones. The brand name carbide hole saws do work good under 1/2". I'm definitely not going to replace them with the Chinese ones.
Think about the spring... The totale deepht of the saw was 0.5 inch but the spring on the center of the saw were compressed down and jeep away space in the cutting deep
The spring wasnt on the first one I tried.
I suspected it was so,it was too silly a mistake to be true, but in the video it was not specified Hi
Anuallar is best. I use a Jancey Slugger and a English built Rotobor magnetic drill. Since the split point is developed they really make quality mirror finish holes Make sure a good supply of oil is used.
Very late to the party, but I can't help but wonder of those cheap ones are meant for much softer stuff, like maybe aluminium or wood?
why would metric not be good for "right on" measuring hole? confused as to why you said that a metric would not be good for getting a certain size....
because it would be metric and not imperial
I expect those carbide bits are only intended for sheet metal, aluminum, plastic or wood. Save them for your woodworking, but again they would only be good for something rather thin... Good test, Gary
yea good points for sure. Whats odd is their ebay link says its not good for thin materials
No its definitely not for wood.
we use carbide tiped hole saws on really thick steel. did 3in plate yesterday with a 1.75in cutter
Ramsey Customs - turbocobra and its true!!! For sheet metal these rare teeth are tend to rip apart the material. I would avoid to use them below 1mm. If there is no other option, then you have to clamp it down your workpiece (clamps are close to the hole) on a sacrificial material.
they are used for hardened steel. The material is too thick for the carbine bit. The filings cannot excape, from the flue pathway. Which will burn around the carbine teeth.
It's meant for cutting sheet metal. Like 14 Ga.
Cheers Gary, I know what I wont be buying to make holes
Years ago I used a Greenlee carbide hole saw for a bunch of holes in stainless, I want to say they were around 1-1/2 and the material was 3/16 thick. I remember it worked really well. Have a look how the reliefs are cut in that tool compared to the ones you have. You may want to try more rpm but I doubt those things will work at all. Not trying to be an ass Gary but your mill does not sound too good.
your not being an ass, just telling the truth, it sounds rough, i showed it in a vid a while back on the old barn channel, need to investigate for sure
I can love any person who can assist me with these.
In which way regarding advice?
Use compressed air gun when cutting it cools the tool and blow the chips away try it what a difference
Not all holesaw are made for lubricant there are some in the industry that are dry and the reason why is lubricant tend to clog up certain areas of the holesaw preventing the proper use of it so you might well want to check with your manufacture if it requires lubricant or not and also the speed that it requires to drill a hole with the holesaw
I thought these are for thin metal like vehicles, steel doors and stainless steel, etc!
Were is demo I can't see it
That carbide is for doing circular groves on ceramics or concrete and insert stainless pipes with some epoxy and use them as handrails columns.
Carbide is great for cutting steel. He is just pushing way too hard
@@jacklinks4905 Well man. if carbide was that great I would have seen it in my 30 years working in steel fabrication. Nobody used that there has to be a reason.
@@kiyoshim9593 Well we must do different types of machining. All we use is carbide on steel. As for softer metals like copper or bronze we sometimes use HSS/cobalt.
@@jacklinks4905 These are other kind of Carbide with micro grain structure that break if you do it manually. these are for mills. try them manually and you break them in 1 minute.
You can avoid those birds nests by pecking or even just pausing for a half-second.
Lucky you I have been on KZhead for 11 years and put about a video a month on all that time and have never gotten any offers for free stuff.. On top of that now KZhead is going to take the 25-30 bucks a month I have been making because I don't have enough subs, although I have plenty of watch minutes... Thinking of quitting KZhead all together, but there are some channels like yours that I really do like and get some good information on...
TheElectronMan The are really going all out to kill the small channels aren't they! Talk about cutting down the future growth of You Tube. My guess is that the only want cat videos and under 30s making stupid videos.
Totally agree they are killing the content with this move... I need to be cute 15 year old wearing my hat crooked and acting stupid then I could have a million subs.. Forbid somebody actually offering good content or a how to video guess there is no teen market in that..
I am not sure but I think this carbide tools are for masonry and concrete
I see the only application for these would be in plastic (Deleon etc) or wood
Are you sure its not the cutting fluid causing the problem? I thought it was a great idea to use alumitap for a die grinder on aluminum but it clogged like crazy, 100x better performance with wd40.. I know its a different metal but something about using tapping fluid for everything.. try with normal 3in1 oil IMO
this was a premium radnor carbide burr too. It makes me think tapping fluid is not designed for stuff going higher then hand speed.
Sir send me prcheching criteriaa
How much do annular cutters cost compared to hole saws?
maybe 1.5x the price, not sure, you can google it and see
Lots more. Most might have specialized shanks too.
Due to I don't have a mill and do cut a lot of holes in thick stuff , the cutters with the carbide tips is way to shallow, how ever they may work good in thin stuff, I prefer the hole saw bits with a deeper cut with a lot of cutting fluid, also then the hole can be trued up in the lathe if need to. Like you said in the beginning of the video if its free and seems to good to be true , it usually is ,(no good) after your video I will leave them in the store.
Thanks for watching Anthony
are you using carbide tipped annular cutters
No, they are solid HSS
25$ for ten cutters? No test needed actually... Maybe carbide would need more rpm as well.
carbide is mostly used for cutting floors and insert stainless pipe with some epoxy in tht 1/2" grove. its notnmeant for doing holes on steel. By the way I do holes to Steel beams everyday for about 20 years and have tested all kind of different cutter. trickm is to buy name brands but these cheap chinese can make 10 3/8 deep holes. just use lots of oil and use speed chart
It's just cheap junk. A single carbide tipped saw should cost more than that. I agree with another post, best reserved for softer materials except you stated you'd put a pin in the chuck to check it and I didn't notice you doing that. The saw itself is probably off but if it doesn't cut anyway, what is the real point to it since a regular hole saw will do softer materials?
aluminum
On a positive note. The carbide hole saw did not cut the hole bigger than it was rated. lol
Those are not made to cut 1/4 plate the plunger spring deal is probably bottoming out, one would purchase these for use on sheet metal up to 11 ga at best, really common for electrical enclosures for knockout annular cutters are your best bet, if you have the equipment to chuck them up just buy the size you need they last really well, if you need holes in sheet metal buy the 25 dollar set or a nicer one hougan makes a good set evolution are ok
Those carbides are only made for sheet metal since the gullets are not very deep
Give amazon a big miss. They make billions. Good video and very informative. I think the amazon carbide bits can be used to drilling masonry. Although not very deep. You probably cannot cut any steel thicker than 2 mm. Although it doesn't seem suitable for cutting any steel. The first cutter is superior. The holesaw isn't so bad and can get you out of trouble as long as you you spend a bit of time and be gentle. Oh on the promotion holesaw. Perhaps drilling clay tiles earthenware tiles.
10:24 I thought carbide is carbide - how come they deform? 13:13 Are they holding up for wood? 14:10 Hm.. no smoke emissions at all. Damn it.
Depends what you're cutting. If like me you're drilling a car chassis through thin gauge sheet metal in multiple layers. Then you need a fine tooth holesaw...Nothing else comes close. Ruko are the best
oh yes i agree with you there. I have drilled out 1,000's of spot welds on cars, hated every one of them lol. The title of this video and the focus was on thick metal.
@@turbocobra Spot weld drilling...my favourite ;)
@@turbocobra "The title of this video and the focus was on thick metal." Yes, and thanks for that!
Some carbide tips are quality and will cost $20 plus for 1 1/2" and even with a expensive one you have a delicate POS that will be in the trash after a few uses.
Used them carbide tipped hole saws a lot your bit isn't long or deep enough to cut thru that thick of steel. Rpms are to high you applied to much pressure and I never use lube with them just cut dry like you did with the milwaukee hole saw. But on the end of the day the annular cutter is the best then the carbide tipped then the hole saw
If you look closely, you can see the cutter dripping before using it. He did use oil.
Cool good job, Thanks, politically correct answer, I get it, I have seen other videos on these same style of bits they dont work. Because of people like you, I know what to buy and not what to buy. Can I buy an annular cutter that will fit a a half inch chuck ?
From what I can see, it seems they should not be used for anything thicker than the "notches" where the carbide blades are placed. Maybe 1/8" max. Otherwise there is nowhere for the shavings to escape??? *********************************************** I have had a set of Ideal brand carbide knockout cutters and have used them for THOUSANDS of 7/8 & 1" holes in electrical panels - But we're talking about soft, thin metal. I don't think they would do well drilling through 3/8 plate either. I can tell by looking that the the Ideal cutters probably have quite a bit more weight to them than the FEEbay bargain basement model... You get what you pay for. The Ideal set of 3 was $100 / I'm sure the first cutter you used cost a bit more! than any of these ~ Thanks for the video. This inexpensive set might be good for soft, thin metal & plastic - but nothing like what you were cutting.
does B look like they're for rock like Limestone or concrete or cement they don't look like they would be for metal because the Bits I have seen for rock looked similar to those but they are longer lik ---[_____} and not --[_}
I would use just a regular drill
Doesn't look like that carbide cutter has enough depth clearance to complete the cut. You're gonna need a longer cutter. The ones I have are much longer than that.