An AWESOME Smart Thermostat with a Local API! Heatmiser neoHub Mini OT
In this video we take a look at the Heatmiser neoHub Mini OT smart thermostat kit which could be one of the most flexible smart thermostats on the market. Not only does it support dual heating zones and Opentherm, it also supports an official, fully documented Local API for integration with other smart home systems. In my situation, I have integrated this with my NodeRED & HomeAssistant based smart home system to allow me to set home/away on the heating system based on the arm state of my Texecom alarm system.
www.heatmiser.com/
/ camerongray1515
www.camerongray.me/
Chapters:
00:00 - Introduction
03:30 - What is Opentherm?
06:30 - Other Heatmiser Systems
09:13 - How does it compare to Nest & Hive?
11:44 - Looking at the Hardware
19:53 - A shielded Opentherm cable?
24:40 - Wiring for On/Off Control
39:54 - Installing for Opentherm
47:22 - Initial Setup - Thermostat & App Pairing
55:07 - Viessmann & Nest Opentherm Weirdness!
1:02:16 - App Demonstration
1:12:50 - API Demonstration
1:19:18 - Node-RED Integration
1:21:44 - Alarm System Integration Demonstration
1:28:49 - Conclusion
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[UPDATE] Unfortunately after releasing this video, I began experiencing issues with this system and have swapped back to my Nest and returned the Heatmiser kit. I've had a few occasions with the Heatmiser system where the boiler enters a fault state indicating loss of OpenTherm comms and stays there until the Heatmiser neoHub Mini is power cycled. Unfortunately when this happens, my boiler decides that it should fire and run the heating at full power constantly! I've just been lucky that every time it's happened I've been at home and noticed it getting stupidly hot inside and checked on the boiler - had I been away on holiday, the heating could have ended up stuck running for weeks! I spoke to both Heatmiser support (about why the comms are dropping) and Viessmann support (about why the boiler is firing when the comms drop) but haven't had much progress so far in finding a solution beyond returning the Heatmiser system and swapping back to the Nest which has never dropped OpenTherm comms. Ultimately it seems like we have two separate issues here that would be inconvenient on their own, but when combined they cause a pretty major problem!
Interesting, I've been working on a project with the NeoHub, and its been working ok, but just found a show-stopper where if the internet drops the neohub just starts boot looping, making control impossible, ironic for a local API. Hopefully they fix it.
Interesting to hear this update, as I have been debating what to do personally (I also have a Nest but would prefer something with a local API). I have also not yet integrated Nest succesfully into Home Assistant. Curious to hear if you have looked into integrating Google Nest into your Home Assistant system? I've started trying to write a flow which gets an authentication token using a service account against the Google Oauth2 API using a JWT - and then starts to use the Google Smart Device Management API - but I've been running into issues reliable authentication. Curious to hear if you have had much success integrating Nest into Home Assistant and, if so, what your approach was.
@@CJ-vo3jx Yep, I was able to set the Nest up using the official HA integration and it works really well. The only thing you need to bear in mind is the $5 fee to register as a developer so that you can run the integration outside of development mode. In development mode the integration will regularly lose it's authentication tokens. Of course a local API would be much better, but this integration has been working reliably for months without issue.
@@camerongray1515 Ah thank you. I was trying to write it myself manually in a Node Red flow and was struggling to script the cypto signatures for the Google Oauth token requests in Node Red. Will take a look at official integration.
It's almost like you read my mind...because I've been search this exact topic this week!
This happens too often with Cameron's videos!
Perfect timing, I’ve been researching this for weeks! Smart thermostats are a world of hurt trying to figure out what I needed, for the exact reason of having a two zone system. A third for the hot water. Nest seemed the best, but then getting into it you’d also need one for each zone… then there was the issue of home assistant. Nothing ran locally or via zigbee… it’s just a mess of a market.
I feel your pain, in your situation I'd definitely check out the Heating and Hot Water version of the neoHub Mini system. Just bear in mind this is a different kit from the Opentherm model I showed here so make sure you buy the correct one! Although I'm not sure on the state of the Homeassistant integration - one does exist but I it's still in development and I have tried it, although the API is easy enough to work with directly if you're okay with that.
Great video as always Cameron!
I've been looking at getting a smart thermostat for my Dad's OT capable combi boiler, and this looks like just the thing I was looking for!! 🙂 Thanks Cameron!! I have a NEST Stat, but I think that's too complicated for my Dad to operate LOL!
Drayton wiser also worth a look. That being said, it's app controlled which you need to use to set schedules etc so might not be the best for him. The basic room stat is "idiot proof" though.
Turn off auto learning schedule then it works normally
A friend’s house I’ve been to has an air source heat pump and a massive underfloor Heatmiser system with a thermostat in every room. In fact, there’s even a thermostat for the toilet, which is mounted next to the thermostat for the hallway and has an external temperature sensor with the cable run through the wall and the sensor in some kind of ventilated box in the toilet. It’s a pretty incredible system, I’m not sure if it has app control but it’s obviously a large system with man zones. It’s a new build and another friends house which is newly built has a similar system (with a boiler not heat pump) so it does seem like house builders are using the Heatmiser system quite extensively
Was just going to add - do you know if there is any kind of authentication you can setup on the local API other than putting it on an isolated VLAN? Seems quite insecure to just have an unauthenticated Telnet port open
Unfortunately not, I completely forgot to mention this in the video! As far as I know, this only applies to the "Legacy API" - Devices that use the newer Websocket based API such as the full size neoHubs require an authentication key to be generated through the app and have the unauthenticated legacy API disabled by default.
Just wondering if the unit had a LAN/Ethernet socket that would connect to your Switcher so you don't have to use the Boiler AP.
Nest supports multi zone(2 I believe), you don’t require multiple heat controllers using Aqara home with upstairs has temperature sensors and Aqara TRVs on each rad, downstairs due to open plan just use sensors (rads are just full open to prevent the boiler from boiling the water in Combi boiler all the pipe in the house is using the small diameter pipe if there is less than two radiators on you can hear the boiler start to boil the water) and have the relay T2 controller to turn the boiler off and on we have an old boiler so we don’thave opentherm) the M2 Hub also support HomeKit/matter and all of my devices Controllable via home assistant but I primarily use it for monitoring (Aqara also do light switches and can function independent of hub/no internet) hive does not support multi zone ,you need Multiple heat controllers,But if your already using hive get hive TRV for each radiator basically turns each room into its own multizone. If one room demands heat it can in independently tell the heat controller to turn the heat on
perfect just been looking into getting rid of my tado
This is my go-to channel when I want to watch two white boxes for at least ten, maybe 20, minutes at a time but prevented from dozing off by the random appearance of one or two body-less hands that pick up one or both boxes, turn them for a second or two and then just put them back where they were and the artwork continues. Worthy of Tate Modern! Just think of the viewer for a bit and stop saying the same thing over and over.
Then I guess my style of video isn't for you, I prefer to give all of the information anyone could possibly want and I fully expect people to skip to the parts that they are interested in. There's plenty of other channels out there if what you're looking for is short, scripted, polished tech reviews
This, but unironically. Cameron has a unique, organic style and he provides the most comprehensive info about the stuff he shows. There's plenty other channels with quasi-advertisment short form content.
@@camerongray1515OK. I may have been a little harsh. I'd only got through the first 11 mins but I now see your video was much longer and with broader content. However, the clip mentions dual zone operation but it does not cover how OT reconciliation occurs. Each zone may desire a different boiler temperature and the first thought is that the hub selects the higher temperature of the two. This would affect the heating time constant of the cooler zone and this in turn probably affects the pre-heat and post-heat durations in an uncontrolled manner. Heatmiser do not cover this and neither do you but I can see that this use would militate against the higher efficiency level we all want. I can think of a way to resolve this using the same kind of approach used on UFH but not necessarily viable on retrofits. It took a long time before this gap in coverage was shown to exist!
Very cool. 🙂
I always specified heatmiser heating controls for Control4 systems, they’ve had a driver for many years and worked well. Shame there isn’t an official integration for Home Assistant but I believe it’s a very UK centric system so I guess a small amount of people that would use it.
Thanks, excellent video. I've been looking for a similar product for ages. Currently I have a couple of Shelly's doing on/off control of boiler and dhw cylinder (dhw priority), with boiler working in a weather compensation mode. Heatmiser's website is very confusing, are you certain "Heating & Hot Water Wireless WiFi Smart Control Kit" doesn't have opentherm? Looks like exactly the same hardware.
As far as I'm aware, the Heating & Hot Water version doesn't have OpenTherm - it's a separate product on their store. Hardware wise it looks pretty much identical (e.g. the OT one has unlabelled relay contacts that I presume are used on the HW model) so I suspect that both are identical from a hardware perspective but will have OT or HW control disabled in software depending on the version you purchase. Always worth dropping Heatmiser an email though to double check.
@@camerongray1515 Support for dhw heating must be very basic, I haven't seen them offering a smart cylinder thermostat. Without a thermostat they can only implement a timer. No on-demand dhw heating/priority, no cylider temperature dependent flow temperature etc. Still, they could use OT for everything else, dhw timer should not prevent that.
Great video. Would be very interested in your thoughts on the Drayton Wiser system
I've never used it but it does look decent. It's the only other real option I've seen that supports both Opentherm and a local API, however unlike Heatmiser, the Drayton Wiser local API is somewhat "unofficial" - It works, and it is what is used by the app to communicate with the system, however as it's not officially supported, there's a risk that Drayton could update the system in the future in a way that locks out/breaks/changes the local API.
I have wiser and I'm very happy with it due to the smart TRVs mostly. Different heating schedule on a per room basis and you can call for heat from any room. Very expensive to fit our a complete house though cost me around £600 for controller and 10 rads and that was with some decent discounts. The API works fine for me with home assistant but you're right it does seem a bit backdoor. To get the API key you have to put it into setup mode and then go to a specific URL it's all a bit hacky feeling, if you are really focusing on API this heatmiser solutions looks better
How is the integration with homeassistant?
There's a Heatmiser integration but I think it's for older thermostats that communicate over RS485 and not the newer IP based neoHub systems. There does however appear to be a work-in-progress integration on Github although not sure how complete it is yet: github.com/MindrustUK/Heatmiser-for-home-assistant. Personally since all I'm really using is the home/away feature over the API, I'm happy communicating with the system from Node-RED. It would also be possible for me to tie my Node-RED logic into HomeAssistant if desired.
It looks like this can control multiple channels with opentherm so that's a big plus over drayton wiser. Unfortunately that system is limited to only supporting opentherm on a combi (1 channel), if you need more you stuck on on/off control. Is there any smart TRV options for this? I couldnt see any from having a quick look on their wbesite . I suppose you could buy anorher brand and integrate with home assistant etc and "roll your own" just not suitable for the average user
No smart TRV options unfortunately although if you're going down that route, then you probably can get away with going with Wiser, locking your zone valves open and relying on the TRVs to handle the zoning side of things.
Great video, how does 2.4g work if HA is connected to 5g WiFi?
If the network is set up correctly then there shouldn't be any issue - I personally prefer not to separate my 2.4GHz and 5GHz networks, but if you do, devices on each network should just be to talk directly to each other.
Can you comment on if this actually needs the full 230v? I have an OpenTherm boiler (intergas/IBC) here in Canada, and Opentherm stats don't really exist here, so I'm going to import one. The Nest seems to be more flexible on power supply, but I like the feature set of this one. If I'm not going to use the heating relay outputs can it run on a lower voltage (120v/24v ac), 60hz?
Would Node Red work when running on Home Assistant? Would need to connect device I expect to HA first?
I haven't tried running Node-RED within HA yet - I run it in a separate docker container but I can't see why it wouldn't work as long as you have (or can install) the TCP In/TCP Out/TCP Request blocks in Node-RED to communicate with the Heatmiser
Would this device work in heating/cooling systems you would find in the United States?
Sadly, no. In the US we use a totally different control scheme compared to the UK. All of our control is based on 24v voltage paths that link back to enable various functions.
I’m not familiar with US systems, but the output on this is not voltage specific, however, it won’t work for cooling (it’s not designed to support cooling)
@@pineappleroad the core of the issue is that basically ALL US HVAC systems are 'dumb'. A typical US Forced Air system has 4 or 5 wires. 1 or 2 carry a 24v supply, and the system is controlled by feeding that supply down one (or more) of the three remaining wires, one for the blower fan, one for heat, and one for cool. The remaining 24v wire is used for thermostats like a Nest that don't have a battery inside and require that 24v supply to operate. Obviously there are more complex systems and heat pumps need more wires to control their reversing valve, but the vast majority of residential HVAC systems here only know to heat, cool, or run the fan. We don't get any of the fancy dynamic output you guys have over there
I couldn’t say for sure but the Heatmiser controllers can work for cooling too, so it should be usable but not unless you have Cameron’s level of integration skills.
Too bad the up down limit isn’t two independent settings because I wouldn’t want it to go above 21 but I don’t want it to go below 18
Got this same unit, was delivered yesterday. Just installed it, and really it's a total waste of money, time and effort. First, it doesn't fit on a normal industry standard timer backplate, same as Hive, Wiser, and any other timer back to the analogue ones with the pegs. Then the screw holes are half an inch wider than a standard back box, so to mount you have to drill holes. Holes for the wire to go through are tiny, so it's nearly impossible to get solid core wires in without being a contortionist and using needle-nose pliers. After ALL that f**kery, when I get it all together (took an hour), the thing flashed it's power light for half a second and died. Total junk, wouldn't wish on my worst enemy. Edit: After nearly 6 weeks I got a replacemant unit (after paying to send it back I might add), got it installed only to discover the version I bought (NeoHub Mini HW) doesn't have the local API stuff. What the actual f? Heatmiser are the worst company to deal with.