Christianity, History, and the Modern Age: A Conversation With Tom Holland
Friends, in February 2023, award-winning historian, author, and broadcaster Tom Holland and I discussed Western culture, the intellectual and moral aspects of Christianity, and the doctrine of original sin, among many other topics, at the Sharing the Church's Story Conference in London.
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Bishop Barron: 25:27 " We Christians have come hat-in-hand to the secular culture hoping to find their approval. That's getting it completely backwards. "
So amazing to turn it and throw it back on the secular world that we, as Christians, look down on the secular world and say, about our Faith, that they “can’t touch this. Nothing you have to offer compares”.
"Modernity is a Christian heresy." That statement needs to me underlined and said more often.
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...so in the End...I sent them Atheist prophets
And used the weak to shame the strong
I love Bishop Barron's talks. He is a very genuine man, a man of faith.
What is this nonsense of a "post-Christian world"? In 1900 there were 9m Christians in Africa; today there are 370m and the numbers are increasing. There are 100m Christians in China; evangelical Christianity is booming in South America; there has been a resurgence of Christianity of late here in England ( not in the C of E which is in a death-spiral) but in evangelical and Catholic churches and one sees open professions of faith from the likes of many black professional footballers. Don't write Christianity of yet...or ever! Jesus will never again die; He is risen.
Just like biblical and historical evidence proves that jesus and his apostles were vegatarians biblical and historical evidence also proves that the trinity, atonement, original sin and hell are very late misinterpretations and are not supported by the early creed hence its not a part of Christianity I pray that Allah swt revives Christianity both inside and out preserves and protects it and makes its massage be witnessed by all people but at the right moment, place and time The secred text of the Bible says ye shall know them by their fruits So too that I say to my christian brothers and sisters be fruitful and multiply Best regards from a Muslim ( line of ismail )
People never give credit or just don't know of all the great contribution that Christianity and the Catholic Church gave to Western civilization - like natural/human rights, science, universities, law, economics, regulation of war, the idea of unity in diversity in Christendom, things like 12th century Renaissance or School of Salamanca. You really have to dig deep and get through a lot of bias to finally found it. Recomend reading such authors, besides Tom Holland, like Pierre Duhem, James J. Walsh, Feliks Koneczny, Stanley Jaki, Edward Grant, David C. Lindberg, Harold Berman, Brian Tierney, Thomas Woods.
But there was also burning people at the stake , the Crusades , torture and religious wars and the finally the Enlightenment and then atheism started in Paris , the eldest daughter of the Church and the Catholic Church resisted every new movement And then in the 20th century ...opposition to birth control and oppression of women
Natural rights are Greco/Roman, the law that Europe uses is also Roman.
Bishop Barron and Tom Holland, two of my favorite thinkers today, in conversation, what a treat! For those that don’t know, Tom Holland has a great podcast called the Rest is History.
Just subscribed to The Rest Is History. Thanks for the tip!
If there were a god, then would there be any demand for scripture interpretations by various podium-jockeys using fantasyland vocabulary?
@@Stupidityindexinsane argument
Please God bless Tom and all England and bring them to Jesus and to the Church!
Amen
Amen
"From east to west, from deepest forest to wildest ocean, from the banks of the Volga to the glaciers of Greenland, Christ had come to rule them all." - Dominion
Bishop our Lord has to love what you are doing for Him and for us.
Firstly, I don't think it's a post-christian world. The world has not changed, the cultural narrative of society has. Christianity has not been found to be untrue, society has fallen into the questionable practices Christianity helps us to navigate. Christianity will not fall, society will.
Well said...
I think the comment was about the percentage of society who regularly practice Christianity as opposed to those who embrace a secularism.
You are a national treasure Bishop Barron. I haven't been proud of our country for a long time! Very interesting insights from Tom as well. Very nice conversation overall.
International treasure* :)
@@emman71 you're right 😊
A brilliant conversation capturing the spirit of the age and the Spirit that ought to reinvigorate the age. Let us believers joyfully and unapologetically proclaim to all thirsting for the word: Christ is risen, allelujah!
Christ has risen indeed!
Bishop Barron is the most extraordinary intellect of our time.
Glory to God for Bishop Robert Barron.
Tom Holland is just an exemplary Historian. His conviction, candor, and boldness in proclaiming the truth have been an inspiration for me as a historian of Ideas & Classical Philosophy who is now defending my dissertation which is indeed "Logos-centric"! As an Anglican, it was a surprise to be directed to this channel and now I am happy that youtube made this suggestion. It was a good conversation! Apologies for leaving a comment as I rarely do so ever however thought to thank you for sharing! Have a nice day!
Just like biblical and historical evidence proves that jesus and his apostles were vegatarians biblical and historical evidence also proves that the trinity, atonement, original sin and hell are very late misinterpretations and are not supported by the early creed hence its not a part of Christianity I pray that Allah swt revives Christianity both inside and out preserves and protects it and makes its massage be witnessed by all people but at the right moment, place and time The secret text of the Bible says ye shall know them by their fruits So too that I say to my christian brothers and sisters be fruitful and multiply Best regards from a Muslim [ line of ismail ]
I’m reading Holland’s book “dominion” right now. WOW, it’s my first Holland book but not my last. Amazing writer. I learned of him from an interview with Douglas Murray. He was so lucid I needed to read him. Thank you for this talk!
That's a great book. I read it and enjoyed.
Very interesting book. The Life of Saint Gemma Galgani. By Fr Germanus her Spiritual Director in 1900. 🙏
It is a great book
God bless all the people reading this! 🌬 ✝ 🕊 🙏
Just like biblical and historical evidence proves that jesus and his apostles were vegatarians biblical and historical evidence also proves that the trinity, atonement, original sin and hell are very late misinterpretations and are not supported by the early creed hence its not a part of Christianity I pray that Allah swt revives Christianity both inside and out preserves and protects it and makes its massage be witnessed by all people but at the right moment, place and time The secred text of the Bible says ye shall know them by their fruits So too that I say to my christian brothers and sisters be fruitful and multiply Best regards from a Muslim ( line of ismail )
Bishop Barron's wisdom is on another level
I got the notification and thought it was Tom Holland the actor 😭 still excited to watch this tho
This Tom Holland is great.
yeah lol, I thought it was Tom Holland the actor.. why would ever Tom Holland encountering a bishop 😂
Tom holland who?
how absurd that would be
The pope is 🌈
Love you Bishop Barron ❤️ the Holy Spirit is truly speaking truely speaking though you ❤️
This is so enlightening. Thank you Bishop Barron and Tom. Yes I could listen to Bishop Barron the whole day .....
Just like biblical and historical evidence proves that jesus and his apostles were vegatarians biblical and historical evidence also proves that the trinity, atonement, original sin and hell are very late misinterpretations and are not supported by the early creed hence its not a part of Christianity I pray that Allah swt revives Christianity both inside and out preserves and protects it and makes its massage be witnessed by all people but at the right moment, place and time The secret text of the Bible says ye shall know them by their fruits So too that I say to my christian brothers and sisters be fruitful and multiply Best regards from a Muslim [ line of ismail ]
Outstanding conference. The Gospel of the Lord is the answer to all our problems. Tom and Bishop Barrón pointed out the love and beauty of the holy word of our Lord. I thank Mother Catholic Church for rescued me of my blindness. We all have the liberty to be on fire. To seek goodness and holiness. We just need to be open and allow God to work on us.
God bless you Bishop Barron and Tom. Thank ypu for sharing your wisdom and knowledge of our being Christian.
Bishop Barron and Tom Holland! This is going to be a great conversation. So chuffed to hear this.
I can listen to Bishop Barron all day , Bless all 🙏🏽
I believe it's time to stop being wimps about our faith. Pray for Holy boldness. As Augustine says DO ALL THINGS IN LOVE>
Thanks God we have these great intellectuals for these difficult times. In the past were St. Agustin, St. Thomas Aquinas, Pascal etc. etc. Jesus is with us until the end of times ...
A inspirational discussion.. Tom Holland and Bishop Barron are such wonderful, interesting intellectuals and champions for Christianity… they were wonderful together talking about the history and meaning of the Christian faith. Time flew by. The moderator was excellent also! Thank you for this discussion on the Christian faith.♥️✝️
Thank you so much for using my music! I sincerely appreciate your ministry, God bless all of you at Word on Fire :) (The David Roy Collective)
Beautiful!!!
Incredible privilege to get to listen to this
two of my heroes on the same stage!!
My goodness, how much depth, truth and insight can you pack into one presentation! These two together are just powerhouses of thought provoking concepts and ideas! Absolutely blows my mind! Thank you!
Bishop Barron rocks!
My morning walk has been blessed Happy Easter My favourite time of year🕊🙏🏻🕊
Yes, they will know us by our love!
Wonderful talk. God bless you all. Your voices are so needed in these times
Need to come to Manchester next time Bishop Barron.Thank you for opening my mind as you do every week
The endurance of the Church is one of the facts that can't be explained using natural reasons.
Holland's reflexion on the power of the original sin doctrine absolutely blew my mind.
Lord have mercy, that was powerful! Thank you.
This is an instant classic
Thank you Justin , bishop and tom for this talk ! Good job Sirs! Greetings from the Philippines 🇵🇭 🙏🙏🙏 Praying for true revival all over the world 🌎
Top scholars giving their educated views is a great gift for us all! Thank you.
I am so very grateful for Bishop Barron who articulates in a very plain speaking way what I feel but find the words sometimes elude me. Thank you Jesus for Bishop Barron and his ministry. Thank you to all involved in this conversation, from the lighting guy, to the sound guy, to the audience and the speakers ❤
Brilliant. I love the Tom Holland story telling. That was just what Saint Augustine said to those who were teaching to the catechumens: tell the story in first place ❤
Fantastic discussion!
Awesome. 🎉
Very nice about the result of denial of original sin!
Just found your channel. Good stuff!
Bishop Barron: "Modernity is a Christian heresy. " 25:18 Indeed it often seems so.
This was excellent, thank you
Thanks god blesse you have happy easter and good voyage.
Thank you for insightful conversation.
Wonderful, thank you.
Wow! Not to be too lavish but this was the best evening hour of Lent, for me in some time. And entertaining with its humor. Loved all the speakers and your explanations of a few important facets of the "Weirdness of Christianity"? "Dynamite" With Original sin? I felt as though Jesus was telling a parable to those who needed the story to understand it best. Like I haven't before, understood it so well. Thank you!
Outstanding conversation. Thank you!
Thanks! This was excellent.
Fantastic conversation! Thank you all for that
Christ is Mercy, and must be the emphasis of faith formation within the Church. Tom brought up a good point about, "Governments taking over what the Church was doing, thereby making the Church obsolete in today's secular culture". It seems so, on the surface of it. However, closer examination would conclude that the emphasis of today's (American) Government programs, are not on Mercy or Love, regardless of how sincere government representatives are in advocating for compassion. Instead, the emphasis becomes focused and mired under relief, and resource policies. Recipients become a number, or a category of charity. A statistic which devolves into rendering recipients of government charity, into a burden. Love and Mercy, overshadowed by money and policies.
What a meaningful conversation on every level.
Thank you Bishop Barron and Tom Holland ✨🙏🏼✨ and all at the Church's Story Conference ✨🕯✨
Thank you for posting this. I have read many of Tom Holland 's books and have listened to Bishop Barron .
Awesome conversation, so inspiring and thought-provoking
Thanks for sharing this!
Thanks very much
A great conversation indeed.
Prayer and fasting, Jesus said, is what is needed for the most difficult demons. Ghandi practiced one day a week, only drinking water with lemon and an all day meditation on Mondays.
😊
Thank you …this is beautiful..
Thank You Father!!! God has blessed you with such eloquence. 👌
These 2 together a solid lineup
Word.
I LOVED this convo!
Fantastic conversation. So inspired by Tom Holland and the clarity of his honest analysis of contemporary culture.
Is such a privilege to be able to listen to these two extraordinary intelectuals, specially in a world gone mad, in the midst of a civilizational collapse. God help us, we need more people like these two to remimde us that civilized talks are still possible.
The bishop's endorsement of Aquinas' ipso esse is a breath of fresh air, and new to me. (I suppose it resonates with Tillich's "ground of being".) If Christians would only epitomize this, I might be one. But it is at odds with the petty, Zeus-like behavior of old testament Jehova, which most Christians today have in mind when they go to church.
Tom Holland from the future
Bunxvvi What do you mean ?
@@thedogofmary I thought it was the actor Tom Holland before clicking the video, but it was an older fellow with the same name.
We can hope
Thanks very much.
Great video
Original sin also affects ourselves in ourselves, our selves, in addition to the social environment we are in, of course.
An excellent conversation
Regards Tom Holland's point towards the end. I actually believe that the greatest suffering that most people went through in 2020 was dealing with the draconian and ultimately futile restrictions brought in to 'deal' with the pandemic. I believe that these authoritarian measures will ultimately bear dreadful fruit as the suspension of civil liberties will become the default position in dealing with potential future scares much less actual threats.
This is a fantastic conference. I am sharing it with my children, grown ups that benefit implicitly from the christian culture without thinking it through.
Thank you, never thought much about St Cuthbert before. It's those extraordinary stories that have almost been lost, despite the Saint having miracles attributed to him in a LOCAL context. These are not far off miracles in Rome or Fatima. Cuthbert is a kind of joke name nowadays, and kids aren't told about him. Those stories are part of the "dynamite" Christians are "too polite" to use. Polite in the sense of allowing free speech, practicing tolerance, even to an extreme degree. Lets not let "too polite" to set us back, as the Opposition ain't "polite" at all!
How polite Jesus was, I wonder....? Did he ever say : be polite to one another! ?
Very interesting discussion. We need more strong bishops with great moral courage. +
Bishop Robert Barron, thank you for your presence, your great spiritual knowledge and light you share and for being our good shepherd who truly loves, protects and feeds your sheep. Prayers for you and God bless you.
Tom Holland is perfectly correct when he says that Western values aren't a given, they are rooted in Biblical Christianity. People born and raised in the West and it's values are cultural Christians regardless of their personal beliefs. The recent invasion of the West by Marxism(wokeism/intersectionality) and Islam is a wake up call/opportunity for the church to proclaim that the freedoms and rights we enjoy come from the God of the Bible based on his nature and character and the value he places on us, made in his image as we are. Marxism and Islam are completely antithetical to the idea of all human beings having equal value and they will always lead to division, hatred, violence and death.
Thank You for great conversation! ♥ ♥ ♥
Very true about Christianity being more visible in disastrous times.
Tom Holland, my favorite historian.
Remarkably when one begins to see facts. One must believe. See the lives of the Saints, enlightening. I believe Tom Holland accepts what he believes in his present time. Only to change what he believes at a later time. People who follow this train of thought, end up in the long run, being misinformed.
Good talk.
By faith we see Jesus with highest honour crowned, Divine and human, without bound, Filling with joy all heaven around !
I think the crux of the matter is that we are so imbided with Christian morals that we take them for granted, and began to think it's possible to have them without Christ.
The role of the church perhaps is to be ready for Christ's return, and to pray for those outside the church.
Yes! Christianity became the norm and Christians grew complacent, I have always been reticent about “telling ppl how to live” but I am ready to tell them the Truth about the world we live in.
Love the "dimmer switch" anology.
Extremely interesting discussion! As an American old enough to remember the '60's all too well, with the chaos of Kruschev and his missiles in Cuba and the imminent threat of nuclear war, race riots, Vietnam War protests, and three major political assassinations in our country alone, it is interesting to hear a British person's take: "The '60s will come to be seen as a decade as convulsive to what we might call Christendom as the 1520's were." T. Holland 30:34
There is another wonderful saint, Tom, whose body and sacred home survived the reformation and who should also be on the short list for patron saint. St John of Beverley came in the vanguard of St Cuthbert and was hugely venerated by English kings. Henry V gave money in thanks for the expansion of his abbey church after the battle of Agincourt. His feast day, 7th May, was a pivotal day in recent British history.
Point of order for Tom. Durham is on The River Wear. Cuthbert is virtually a Mackem! I agree with Tom that he should be our patron saint, however.
Brilliant! I wish Tom explained what the “Elite Dispensation” is. Also what distinctives should the church highlight?
It says something about the decline of Christianity when people are drawn to discussing it only because they want to hear Tom Holland’s take.
Many have come for the Bishop and happy to see Justin too based on the comments.
I only clicked on the video because of Bishop Barron. I have never heard of Tom Holland until I saw this video.
🙏🙏🙏