The Framework 16 Laptop has been generating so much buzz in the tech community. Engineered for versatility and sustainability, this laptop offers a modular design unlike any other, allowing you to customize and upgrade the components effortlessly. But at what cost???
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TIMESTAMPS
0:00 - Finally!
1:13 - Unboxing Experience
2:50 - Let’s BUILD A FRAMEWORK 16 LAPTOP!
7:26 - 2 Weeks Later…
8:00 - Pricing
10:03 - Design and Build Quality
11:31 - Keyboard
12:17 - Sound Test
12:43 - Something’s missing…
14:51 - Trackpad
15:37 - Customizable Ports ❤️
16:26 - Webcam and Speakers
17:28 - Display Analysis
18:31 - GPU Power, Frequencies and Temps
19:23 - 1440p Gaming Performance
19:54 - CPU Power, Frequencies and Temps
20:13 - Surface Temperature
20:28 - Real-World Benchmarks
21:25 - Battery Life
22:28 - Conclusion
Review unit provided free of charge by framework. As per Hardware Canucks guidelines, no review direction was received from manufacturer. As an Amazon Associate we earn from qualifying purchases.
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#framework16 #hardwarecanucks
I would very much like modular laptops to be the future. This should have become mainstream years ago.
Became*
It very much looks like a laptop from years ago so i guess they hit their mark.
@@quantumdot7393design is not everything, repairability is better. The fancy modern design of your MacBook won’t help if something breaks and you have to trash the entire thing cause they’re not serviceable.
Bruh, it came out years ago and tech KZheadrs talked about it a lot already in the past.
@@pyokent become mainstream=/=become acknowledged by bigger YT channels
One thing to note is that with a modular system the price will always be higher until it can be subsidized. Likely not this much higher, this is due to them being relatively new tech, manufacturing, and supply and demand. However, most laptop manufacturers are selling you computers knowing they will fail in whatever number of years their testing has shown and that you'll have to buy a whole new laptop. Framework is going for a system where you could feasibly use the same system with different parts for decades. This means they can't rely on let's say once every 5 year 2-3k from you. You might spend 2k the first year and then only 100 over the next 10. You might not really upgrade at all and just fix what's broken. So in general price goes up if less purchases are possible or likely. You get the one big purchase or you get many tiny purchases. In this case their mission statement is that this big investment is a one time thing and then you're in the ecosystem. The price will likely go down over time with better components as first adopters get their systems but it's important to note that the price we're used to is a price that relies on us trashing our old rigs and buying a whole new one every time enough stops working. These companies do not maintain support for laptops past a certain number of years not even selling parts after their support has run out. Framework with this concept would be able to support older laptops and give them the nudges needed to keep up albeit not the fastest rig. This is a systemic shift and we have to be okay with yes our costs went up some but we have more freedom and can actually service our computer ourself. We don't need to buy a warranty so Dell will choose to service our computer or Apple Care will fix a problem that's $5 for a monthly fee. We don't have to throw away a perfectly good system because the RAM is sauttered on and one stick died. We don't have to fund Windows a new installation fee every time a component failure causes us to upgrade. The tech needs time to develop but that freedom of choice and device is something incredibly rare in today's day and age and something we desperately need back. The fact it's gaming performance is as good as it is has me floored. I just need the screen to get better and potentially speaker modules for good sound quality and I'd be sold. That being said rooting for them and this systemic change to be a hit to the point major producers in the space today start to have to adapt. We've already seen companies add back previously removed modularity.
Amen to that! Commenting for the algorithm because I believe this is probably the most important thing about Framework and similar projects. Freedom from various consumer traps which companies keep adding one by one, step by step.
Great analysis 😮
I think you said it perfectly so just commenting so others will see this
Well said man
and I wont be buying this if 3 years down the lane, a gpu upgrade cost 900$
Laptop market is a tough one. Competition is fierce and every iteraton users have been losing rights to own a appliance in favor of just consume it and throw away. Framework's future is challenging. However, i think it is a company with values we all should root for and it represents a counterweight vision against what the laptop market has been moving lately.
Agreed. My next laptop will be a Framework, even if it's more expensive than a similar laptop from elsewhere, purely because I want to support this move back towards the days of repairability and truly _owning_ your device.
@@benjaminoechsli1941 The Price right now is what's inhibiting me. Not necessarily the price to performance ratio itsself but the price by itself. Its still too high imo. Im willing to pay a bit of a premium for what you get considering its upgradable but right now its too high for me. My general principles is Reparability of any product shouldn't come at a premium.
Don't forget one of the best parts about Framework: official support for Fedora Linux, this laptop is as open as it gets! 💙
Yeah, that's one of the biggest reasons why I bought one!
Nobody outside of your tiny fanboy niche cares about Fedora.
@@bearzilla2462 *Are you sure about that?* Steam gaming is bigger on Linux than on macOS.
Running Fedora 39 with hyprland and just loving it. Hope framework comes to India soon. Keeping my fingers crossed.
@@sourabhpatel7952 Kispe chala raha hai bhai?
I'm fine with the CPU choice, Phoenix was bleeding edge when they announced the product. The Hawk Point 8040 is essentially the same CPU , just with a faster NPU. CPU cores and the GPU are identical to 7040. There's nothing using the NPU apart from some Windows background camera blur effects at the moment. Framework have said they'll skip this gen, as there's no real world benefit, so the next upgrade will likely be Zen 5.
8040 is noticeably faster than 7040 in tests done on gaming handhelds which offer models with both chips but which are otherwise identical. I don't remember how much exactly, maybe 10% or so.
Just a note, Hawk Point (8040) is basically just Phoenix (7040) but with an NPU. Framework really isn't missing that much by using Phoenix.
Both have NPUs, Hawk Point's NPU is just 60% faster (I think they are actually the same NPU but Hawk Point's NPU is being run at higher clock speeds).
@@kylereis7854 If it;'s just higher clock speeds and no actual architectural improvements, then there really is no reason to upgrade from Phoenix, especially if that user was lucky enough to get a 7940HS.
Also, it has yet to be released, and no other laptop uses it either. The Framework team has just as much chance of creating and integrating a new processor as any other laptop company has of creating a new laptop for it.
@@ColeBerkley Actually, the Asus ROG Zephyrus G14 and Razer Blade 14 are confirmed to be using it. That being said, they aren't out yet afaik.
@@cameronbosch1213 He is not understanding it. We love the minimal Nvidia chips on low power. he needs to play games, please buy the OMEN only for that ! Alienware good build ?
My framework 13 is the first laptop in ages that I really love (last years I had the top notch macbook pros). With the framework it feels like there is a personal relationship, the macbook always felt too boring :D
The first thing i thought on seeing the spacers was that it'd be fantastic to have speaker spacer options. Would make The laptop a media powerhouse !
Now imagine having the speakers all on the right side. Why? Because!
Well sure, but if you're wanting real acoustics, let alone actual bass, you're just not going to get it with flat laptop speakers that have little to no air volume. You're way better off dragging around portable speakers along with your computer.
With the shallow space, your be looking at high pitch, treble enhancers at best I think. Good for spoken word at least
As a taller person I love it that the monitor is standing higher, it is easier to work with your laptop that way. It is one of the reasons why I dislike working with a laptop, that monitor being so low. Generally speaking laptops are quite unergonomical.
As a visually impaired person that is also taller, double yay for this honestly. Makes for much better ergonomics. I wish there was less lid flex though...
I had the same thoughts. I'll take the ergonomics and repairability any day
Excelent point.
how does tech guys don't know about rufus?
either they aint windows or tech guys
How many don't know that Rufus isn't needed to make a Windows installer?
Honestly, I thought the same. A great program from that one developer, it has been the go to to install Linux for over a decade and now that Microsoft has easened up a bit it also is the better way to install Windows. Basically Microsoft blocked it (it might or might not be that it was the intention, I won't speculate) for the longest time but now that you can just download a Windows-ISO this problem has been solved.
I guess when all you do is windows based laptops, making a boot drive isnt really something you do very often. I personally used windows for nearly a decade and didnt come across rufus until I decided to mess around with Linux.
@@JoeNokers The problem was that MS refused to put an ISO on their website so an independent tool like Rufus or Etcher couldn't install it.
Love to watch this video. Beautifully edited, Warm and even audio, good narrative pace, empathetic treatment, cosy lighting.... Congrats. Oh, and really relevant topic...
I've got a preorder for the 16 - group 4. There was only one thought on my mind when I got it: "can I fix it *when* it breaks." I've spent so much on workstation laptop computers over the years - they all suffered from the same failure points. Very frustrating. So as long as the parts are available I think I will be very, very satisfied with this machine. And if I can upgrade down the line? Win. I know this is a very *niche* set of priorities, so YMMV.
For most laptops you can that that if it's a software issue, then it can be improved; But with the framework, even hardware issues can be improved 😆 Also the fixes don't necessarily need to come from framework, someone from the community could create their own modules, like a better keyboard 🤔
Joaco I replaced most parts in my HP Elitebook, unable to replace the GPU. never will replace the Keyboard, HP Elitebooks are the best. If i need a faster GPU, i need a new CPU too, replace the Laptop works better for me. You ever did any parts swaps ? I do love this concept, fancy people will love it, keep upgrading it !
Replacing is really really cool. That's why I have an eye on framework. It makes it so easy for the community to make and sell their own solutions.
Dude, you have to be specific. It didn't come with these parts, your ordered it with these parts.
For my taste design looks good, also that modular approach is very cool thing.
Will i ever replace the GPU, replace the system better ?
It's always the same concerns, the price and the company. It's very clear that they are a small company and no one else as done this before so they have to do the design, engineering and anything else on their own and that costs money. So of course the first laptops they launch will be more expensive than the competition, and they still offer good specs. It has been almost four years I think since the FW13, they have fulfilled their promise so far and the vast majority of the customers have been satisfied, so I wouldn't be worried. People I buying this for modularity, upgradability and reparability, not because it has the best build and quality materials. If it's too expensive right now lets just wait a bit for it to be more affordable.
I'm buying one partly because I want to see this idea succeed, and to see Framework grow large enough that they can sell future laptops for less money so more people can afford one. I'm fortunate enough that I can justify the price, and hope that one day everyone that can't will be able to get one.
@@ilikepizza1275 Fair enough, but there are still limits. I don't need one of these, but, if I did, I'd be willing to pay a premium for repairability and long-term hardware support. There are still limits to this. When a machine with similar or better performance can be had for half of the price, the Framework becomes very hard to justify. Especially since most gaming laptops (the competition for the 16" model) already have user-replaceable RAM, storage, and batteries.
@@ilikepizza1275 I have an old XPS 15 and when I eventually have to get a new one in the near future I'm thinking of going with a Framework, as I also want this to succeed. Imagine if more went fully or at least partially modular, then there could come some standard which were uniform and would allow one to mix and match components from across the vendors, a benefit for all. Also when enough starts to adapt into Framework and people start to want to upgrade, then it should be cheaper for those who doesn't have much to upgrade, as you could probably get a better used component than the one you have, as someone might have upgraded to the newest component.
Awesome review. You covered every part of the laptop I was interested in. I'll be keeping my eye on future 16 and it's exciting to think where they could take it.
I feel like this laptop is the Skyrim of laptops (not just gaming laptops). It's a modder's dream and it will be the modders who will bring out the full potential of this laptop. Framework seems to have done a great job to make sure that the bones are solid and easy to work with. As long as they keep refining the base builds and the fit-and-finish of the parts I feel like the open-source community can just run with this thing and make it brilliant.
Regarding your old boards, you may not have noticed that there is already an ecosystem which allows you to take your old processor and put it into a new housing. I don’t know if framework is doing it themselves, but third parties and open source developers are creating it. So you can take that old processor, put it into a housing, and use it for another application likea home server, or maybe eventually even to run a raid, what have you.
If framework shave of those bezels they can crame an option 17" Display!
I did the math and only 16.4" would be possible while still having enough of a bezel to be able to screw the screen in. If they glued the screen on (which is against their mission) they could potentially achieve 16.7". However Framework is limited by the displays already being produced. Getting a completely custom 16.3" display would be really expensive so they went with a slightly tweaked (slightly tweaked is a lot cheaper than completely custom) variant of the second largest panel already being produced that could be fit. The reason they went with the 2nd largest panel they could is because the largest panel already being produced that would fit is much lower refresh rate (60 Hz instead of 165 Hz), lower brightness (330 cd/m² vs 500 cd/m²), and reduced color space (74% DCI-P3 vs 100%). So they choose to use a 2.6% smaller panel that they could've in order to get much better other specs. It's possible my math was off, tomorrow when my FW16 is supposed to arrive I'll take measurements of the actual area available for the screen and if it can fit a larger screen than I calculated I'll update this comment.
A slighty-thicker-than-average bezel is very low on my list of criticisms. But then again, I don't treat my computer as fashion accessory.
And and an extra 45Wh battery option for the expansion bay!
@@kylereis7854 good observation.
@@handlemonium Why only 45 Wh? Let's shoot for more! On the Framework forums there have been several discussions about this. Framework's CEO suggested that either five 18650 cells or four 21700 cells could potentially be an option. Five 18650 cells would fit within the same form factor as the existing GPU module. The largest 18650 cells are slightly over 12 Wh so five calculates to an impressive 60 Wh! Four 21700 cells would require a slightly larger enclosure but the largest 21700 cells pack slightly over 20 Wh each so four calculates to 80 Wh! So 60-80 Wh of capacity could potentially be added through the expansion bay. Nothing has been officially announced by Framework, but given the amount of discussion that has occurred on the Framework forums (including by Framework's CEO) I think it is very likely that either Framework will make one or at the very least some community members will (it sounds like some people are already working on it).
Very cool idea BUT I just can't justify the price to performance and fit/finish. That said it's something I'll keep an eye on as they introduce new modules to see how upgrading pans out
Very informative... Thanks !
Most of the concerns here are kind of expected. I was actually lined to buy one to replace my work laptop as it would have been a perfect replacement for me use case... And then my work laptop died so I had to replace it immediately before this would have had any chance to ship 😢. Now I'll have to buy my colleague to play with his when he gets it.
Sorry, I just don't see a few perfectly sensible trade-offs as negatives. This is the same argument as the decades-old US versus foreign built cars. Japanese and European cars had this false perception of superior build quality when in reality, car culture controlled the market. US manufacturers had to design their cars to be maintained and fixed by average owners using standard store-bought tools or they just weren't going to sell. A half-inch bezel or a bit of keyboard flex is not bad build quality; it's just part and parcel of a laptop you can build and fix yourself.
It's not a reason to not buy it but it's nice to know beforehand. I always find it suspicious when someone does a review and mentions nothing negative because there are always tradeoffs
First time viewer. Excellent review! Like and subbed.
nice review. I appreciate your honesty with this device!
Amazing review, as always! A few questions: 1) How did you measure the TDP in the different power plan modes? (19:07) 2) How long does the battery last in the YT playback test if the laptop is in efficiency mode? (21:37) Thank you in advance!
Amazing idea, hope it continues to develop 😋
I own the 13 inch 13th gen and it seems like a better buy to me. I really enjoy the full metal keyboard deck that keeps things premium feeling. I plan to get an external GPU enclosure for mine eventually so I don't have to sacrifice too much in a docked experience. Even without the customizability of the keyboard, I feel the 13 inch makes more sense. Love your videos.
Interesting and commendable approach. It seems very high quality and cool to me. Definitely a desktop replacement rather than a portable device. Thank you!
It has a retro futuristic look. Like the Seiko Ripley.
Windows on a Framework laptop 💀💀💀
?
@@REXae86use linux on it
Compliments to Frameworks for changing settings for the keyboard in the firmware! This is a great thing, being able to consistently change it no matter what OS the person uses and not having software overhead for that. One little point of criticism: I would like to have the touchpad on the right or left side, not in front of the keyboard, that way it doesn't get in the way and touchpads really don't need to be this big, just increase the mouse sensitivity and 20% of that size is plenty. Having said that, I woiuld not change the depth of the laptop (distance from the front to the monitor) because then the monitor gets uncomfortably close, I am ok with some 'dead space' for ergonomics.
there will probably be a touchpad sidepanel made. the interface is usb :-)
I had the exact same XPS Model! Maybe one up or down. I loved that thing, I still have it. Removable battery, I bought a second and did the same thing and the battery being a stand was nice. Mine had the 5.1 Surround speakers and I love those speakers even now. It makes me sad at what laptop speaker options we have now. That's one of my biggest priorities and the options are slim. The fact they had a sub woofer in a LAPTOP and it WORKED was amazing. A wonderful experience, my next upgrade I went straight to them and was sad to see they went with the super thin with touch screen emphasis and the speakers were gutted. I've never really considered them recently due to that shift but I'd love to buy a new version of that computer.
Great review, particularly the Conclusion. I agree with everything said...cool idea, but not really sure how this will work in the medium term.
i purchased this for modularity alone. It's extremely easy to open up clean and repair.
That Zenbook Duo bouncing around like CRAZY when you type, good god!
I definitely will buy Framework laptop for my next laptop.
@6:37 the fact that Framework makes you use Rufus to create a bootable Windows drive to install shows how much this laptop is meant for enthusiasts.
You can always get the Framework pre-assembled and with Windows already installed.
This is something to watch. And, I'm cheering for it to be successful ... either itself or by virtue of reforming other laptop industry players. Personally, I want to see more if I am to buy in when it is time for my next laptop purchase.
Hey guys I was wondering about how you test cpu coolers, are they mounted on a bench ( with the motherboard s back on the ground) or in a case (motherboard sits vertically)
*Dang good review.* 😊
My advice if you would consider buying Framework: buy the 'DIY'-version, it costs $300 less and you can assemble it within 10 minutes. It also comes without Windows which I consider an advantage (not paying for Windows is great because I don't use it, also not unnessecary writes on the SSD so nice though the impact is small).
If you got a micro center nearby don't for get to get ram and storage from there, cheeper and MC it another peace of the puzzle we need to implement right to repair.
@@ceterfoJust make sure the RAM does 5600MT with JEDEC timings....
Plus even if you use Windows keys are cheap and you can even use MAS
also there are hacky ways to trick windows into activating without a liscense key so the only problem is the instillation media.
First time viewer on your channel and I have subscribed. Thank you for your candor in your review you and it has given me cause for pause. However, I too celebrate the idea the company is moving in. That said, I'm a Linux guy, so I am leaning toward System 76, Tuxedo, or SlimBook. Again, thanks, and God bless,
Extremely expensive but I'm hoping this'll become a laptop standard in the future. I would rather have my laptops designed with reparability and upgrades in mind. Tired of electronics with difficult to swap batteries, soldered memory and storage with hard to source replacement parts.
One thing with 7700S is yes, it is more like a 4060 performance wise (but faster most of time), but look at those 1% lows, it gets closer to 4070 a lot of time for those.
maybe consistency and reliability arent too matter for you then grab em, theyre good, better mostly
wonder when will there be on motherboard of dual 2280 double side (16tb ssd) option or they op that out?
wow , i love this keyboard feature
This is a very exciting time for computer people everywhere.
I fell in love with the Framework 😮 Maybe it will be my next laptop
“Maybe in the future” That should be frameworks motto.
Is this one of the pre-prodution press units or did you get a Batch 1 retail unit?
Pre-prod. the first Batch 1 units went out end of last week.
I have the fw13 and regardless I will be purchasing this laptop. FW as a company is amazing and I do love that. Also considering I can choose when I can upgrade is amazing.
The early adopter tax is rough. It's certainly a step in the right direction for consumer upgradability and reparability, but the price point is currently unfeasible.
I have a question about 60% keyboards, since fn is my main key how do I use the volume?
Modularity is the primary reason why I've stuck to using desktop PCs my whole my and never bothered to get a laptop because they always have been use and throw type of computers for the most part, but this could change that completely.
Big fan of this channel, love all the content you all are posting. This Framework 16 laptop is on my short list for a new laptop. My HP Envy is 8 years and definitley wants to retire. This Framework 16 is (was?) even my first number of choice, for the main reason that I also support the chance to upgrade parts instead of having to buy a new laptop. But just as you calculated, my configuration would be €3.000+ and that is a lot of money. And that for general use and photo and video editing. So I do keep other laptops in consideration. One thing I can't get any/much information is of, is the huge bezel on the display. Why is it that big? Has it a purpose? In 2024 it gives the Framework 16 a rather old fashioned look.
I really love the idea to pay more up front to pay much less later for performance upgrades. But currently almost everything around the screen is a deal breaker for me. The chin, the display itself, the size it forces compared to other 16". I can live with some of the build quality stuff, but the screen design needs to be closer to something like the XPS Series.
what's amazing about the framework laptops are that the motherboard in itself is essentially a single board computer. there's already a community of builders using the older motherboards as a powerful SBC or a small desktop. the reason big companies failed with modular laptops is that 1. they were afraid to hamstring their other lineups and 2. it was often proprietary and therefore solely or mainly depended on first party modules. all framework components are either existing industry standards, and if such thing doesn't exist (like the expansion bay), they publish the design. this is a very smart strategy; they don't have to support everything, rather they can invite individuals or even other companies to offload some of that burden. it's replicating the IBM compatible desktop market. and the motherboard being modular and having many usb-c ports means that it has a resale value on its own. as it's already quite powerful while being (relatively) low power it will hold onto its value for quite some time.
My next laptop will be this. Incredible.
this need to be the future of electronic products!
Very cool project which needs to improve in the future. For now I would recommend only 13 inch version, but both version r awesome step towards more sustainability and longevity.
If they manage to slim down and refine their designs I could possibly see myself getting one in a few years.
Refine yes, slimming it down is unlikely. The size is the screen size plus the required bezel. And since they're not going to do bezeless because they're not swappable that's pretty much it there. As for the height, it's a similar situation. The business model isn't the mainstream trend of slimming and swapping for less functionality and less repairability. If you want a smaller laptop get a 13.
@@newolde1 Yeah I am not too worried about portability Im mainly referring to how bulky it looks and is.
@@SirBlicks I'll never understand those that choose form over function, especially for a tool. Alas to each their own.
Can it work with the battery removed directly from the power adapter ?
1) swappable battery yes, in time when im off day at home i can simply plug out my battery, plugged in the laptop all day, then when its time to work simply plug back the charged battery 2) reasonable spec, make the panel as an option, whether ips, lcd, oled, miniled or different resolution, not all people would like to use 4k panel on 16inch screen, most of us still ok with 1080/1200. this can cut the overall cost of the laptop make it more reasonable.
I would love a speaker module next to the keyboard, just to get some better audio quality.
Honestly I would like to see combo ports. One possibility is only charging usbc combined with headphone jack. And mine you I hate already the combination headphone+mic modul. It should be 2 jacks, separate mic.
Really impressed by what the framework achieved here. To this day my fav small-size laptop is Framework 13. But unfortunately, I cannot say the same for 16. But as a concept, they have achieved what they set out to achieve. An upgradable modular laptop! Hopefully, the trend will pick up and more players enter the market. Size to power, cost to power ratio and general utility of modules is missing/lacking, and hopefully, we reach there soon.
7:00 Funny thing about that. During Win11’s earlier days, Microsoft didn’t have drivers for newer Intel WiFi cards. Intel actually made a post in Nuc support for you to run oobe\bypass to to skip the internet connection requirement for windows 11. And this is INTEL we are talking about
Last for extended lifetime? The expansion bay shell with the connectors on it, and the expansion cards, also connect to the rest of the machine. Framework is going to assure their internal connections to these modules are going to be compatible with any future changes to NVME, USB, video, or Ethernet? I have doubts. For example, I have seen docking stations 5 years old that no longer are compatible with current tech because of changes to that tech. I just don’t see how framework can assure this ongoing compatibility given the frequency of changes to these various interfaces over time.
This is a ridiculous critique. The connector is just an electrical interface that sports 74 pins capable of a bit over 10 amps at 20V which interfaces between a user facing port and the PCIe in the motherboard. Currently it supports more than PCIe 4.0 at 8 lanes. If in the future components change and need more than that, then you just update the specs with more electrical capacity over the same interface, or hell, if it comes to that, even a different one which could still keep backwards compatibility to allow you to swap in older expansion bays. We've done that for decades with USB, and recently we even have Thunderbolt, several different USB specs, HDMI, and other stuff over the same type C interface. This isn't new science nor engineering. It's a goddamn $19 part in the marketplace with the purpose of exposing the PCIe interface to the outside with something that can withstand users connecting and disconnecting stuff with some relative frequency. That's all. You're literally hitting on the strong point of the Framework as if it was a weakness and pretending it's the same as companies using proprietary connectors with no financial incentive to keep supporting them. This isn't like that, this is an open interface to an open standard, PCIe. If in the future we have components with bandwidth beyond the capabilities of the current interposer, and you want to connect your new powerful expansion bay that uses that spec, just spend the $19 and buy the upgraded interposer that supports it, plug it in place of the current one, and you're good to go. That's the beauty of this ecosystem. Every single part is repairable, replaceable, and upgradeable, including the interposer. Now, the expansion cards. The USB-A interface is backwards compatible all the way back to 1996. The first laptop with USB-C came out in 2016. There's a long way to go for the type C interface, which will very likely be longer lived than USB-A because it was designed specifically for that. You could upgrade the internals, which is doable without changing the interface. That's how we have different USB specs using the same backwards compatible interface or even Thunderbolt which is a different spec and still uses that interface and keeps compatibility with the USB spec on top of that. I think you just don't understand what electrical interfaces are and how they work and think the interface is the entire spec or something? Let's still entertain your scenario as if it was like I'm understanding you think it is. Let's assume 40 years down the road we have completely and utterly abandoned USB-C and any sort of internal compatibility connection somehow. Then yes, when you upgrade the motherboard you'll need to buy 6 new cards at $10-20 each at current prices aside from the storage ones. That's the worst case scenario of this extremely unrealistic time frame of 40 years.
@@thefelix7767 I appreciate your extensive reflections. I hope you are correct.
Great concept and modularity, if the price can be lowered as time passes and other companies jump on it then more will buy.
Anxiously waiting the FW16. I ordered min late Sept 23, and now the are finally starting shipping..
I like the concept.
Super idea but it's not at a place that would make me invest that kind of coin for what I get. Still, the buzz continues to pique my interest. Thanks for the super, sympathetic yet critical, review!
Framework are a breath of fresh air, they're doing something completely different; and by doing so are challenging the norms of the laptop industry. I've worked in IT for nearly 30 years and have used every large manufactorers laptops pretty much throughout that time. I'm so bored with them, even Apple's MacBook. There is always going to be downsides, and no one product is going to be perfect. But in the age of challengers, such as Linux, Framework devices such as these allow me to buy what I can afford at the time, and then buy upgrades down the line. They also activley support development of the hardware components with the open source communuity and the ever growing Linux community. Whats not to like? What I really like, is the ability to fix/repair/replace parts and components myself. I'm so fedup of having to call a support number (Dell, Lenovo & HP I'm looking at you directly) waste time trying to convince someone that yes, there really is a problem, and no, I'm not just going to re-install the OS. Finally, I can just order the part that I know needs to be replaced. I really hope business small and large take advantage of Framework and go all in with them! Also, on the wifi side of things, this isn't just a Framework/AMD issue, there are a number of wifi adapters that don't have Windows support with the generic Windows installer. Just get a $30 USB-C Ethernet adapter or even one of those small USB-C hubs that have Ethernet and USB-A and HDMI, you'd be amazed how often you'll use it. Also, the joy of this is you can always just swap the wifi card out for whatever your own preference is! I was very suprised to see the thermal efficency of the review unit, thats got to be a really good thing, and I think it shows that Framework have some good plans for the future. OEMs should be scared/worried, especially Apple, who go out of their way to produce nothing but e-waste with all of their products.
Canceled my preorder about a month ago. After seeing all the reviews I'm glad I did. I did so for a few reasons (listed in order) 1. I don't use a laptop a huge amount and this one is expensive. 2. The build quality of the screen frame and keyboard are disappointing 3. I'm not actually sure it's going to be cheaper to upgrade in the future rather than just buying two laptops at a cheaper price. If I can buy two laptops for $1500 each, buying a framework for min $2200 + $1000 for a new mobo... that's not cheaper, that's more expensive.
Is there any intel option available?
Future of Desktop PC ✅, YES IT IS
I feel these machines are more of a novelty at this price and quality than a model for which the industry should strive for. Some of the comments saying, 'this isn't for normal people' confirms this. Basically laptop legos for DIY tech enthusiasts. I'm all for modularity, but it comes with hits to form factor and cost. Making something user upgradeable means the skill floor is a lot lower so you have to introduce things like magnets as seen here, daughter boards, and pogo pins. You could argue that it creates more waste given the extra amount of materials to make something modular. I think the true goal is in the middle with reparability. Something a skilled user or third-party technician can repair without special tools, but with minimal impacts to cost and form factor.
It takes time. It's the first step to make it mainstream. And if it is, it will surely get cheaper. It's a quite young company. I see it the same way though
eber has been shifting a lot of gears in this video
Well, it’s the past. Got a Siemens Laptop around 2000 that was modular. I could replace CPU and GPU plus all drives (modules) and power supply. There was even a version with replaceable display and one could plug it into a desktop size docking stations with SCSI controller and several PCI slots
I wish they came up with something sized between the 13 and the 16. If the 13 had 6 slots I'd get that for sure but the 16 is too big
I already bought the Framework 13 11th gen to support the company and am happy how they are evolving. Keep in mind with the flaws of the 16, the company may develop improvements. They are looking to reduce that flex in the middle keyboard for instance. Looking at Framework 13 upgrades they; improved the speakers improved the camera and mic, improved the screen lid structure to reduce flex improved the hinges to hold the screen up better. So down the line whenever I do buy a 16 inch I bet there will be improvements to the design.
Tbh their $3000 laptop have the same spec as a $1500 laptop and like Dave2D said, you could just buy a $1500 laptop today and in 5 years buy another $1500 laptop with a much better spec, new chassis, screen and more, i been using my laptop for 3 years and there are a bunch of scratches, dinks on my screen and chassis, not sure if i want to keep using it assume that i have upgraded it with a new CPU, GPU. Also passing your old laptop to a friend or sell it is easier than selling its modular component
Imagine you bought the Dell XPS laptops 5 years ago. Loved the devices but when you went to buy a new Dell XPS device it was twice as expensive with worse thermals and no function keys. Then it becomes clear why modular laptops are better. The $3000 modular laptop is ALWAYS going to be a better investment because a company isn't going to force you to deal with a crappy hardware feature that you don't want.
Hey, you should read back The Verge's review. There's support for battery modules, the only issue is that it's for the back slot and so you can't have it with the current dedicated GPU offering.
I wold like framework to release future model that easily change beetween laptop and handheld or tablet form. That would be awesome 😊
Excellent laptop. If anything, i hope Framework pushes the major OEMs to swing back towards repairability a bit more. Make access to the mainboard easier, replaceable ram, SSD, and battery as standard, make the screen easier where you dont need to heat up glue, and power port repairability. They dont need to make everything replaceable to the extent of Framework's, but at least basic stuff. I know many laptops are this way, but they are becoming more rare, especially on the high end. Anyway, just want to see more repairability in general for others, and Framework i hope succeeds
Really need that NSX in my life...
The only reason people should buy framework is because they have the disposable income to invest in a new company with new ideas. It's not quite worth it yet for the average person. Very close, but not there yet.
Yeah no, the framework 13 is much better rounded product and very much worth for the sort of enthusiast
@@jitterrypokery1526@jitterrypokery1526 The Framework 13 does not have the Core Ultra chip yet, so I would be wary of anyone buying the current version as the new ARC GPU is a major upgrade.
I'll absolutely be buying a Framework sooner or later. I just gotta save up a bit!
I love the framework, this is masterpiece. You can change old hardware or the design quick and simple. And with the ryzen prozessor you get very good performance and battery life 👍
The swappable battery is possible since the pinout is there in the same place where the gpu can now be fitted. This has been known for over half a year and is in the technical documents.
Thanks :)
I've been really into the idea since the Framework 13, though they have their work cut out for them, especially in software/firmware support. BIOS updates have been slow to non-existent. Also would love to see them capitalize more on enclosures to reuse my old parts, as I doubt eBay buyers would be interested in keyboards with chipped paint and used batteries.
Really nice video! Just found the channel and I appreciate the not so heavy tech focus of the review. It was blended well with the things that a user would want to know. Thanks a lot! Also, Rufus is prety famous if you have ever tried to build any computer from parts :D.
Love the casioak :)
Expecting a laptop to come out with processors that have just been announced less than a month ago is a bit disingenuous, and scaremongering about young companies is also not really fair, this way you will ensure a dearth of innovation in the laptop-space cause the big 5 manufacturers do not seem to be capable of that. The price of the laptop is steep though compared to the competition, but at least it is innovative and upgrade-able, which the competition definitely is not.
The 8040 isn't really an upgrade, unless you want a better NPU. CPU and GPU are identical. On that basis Framework have said they're skipping that generation .
If it was priced to reflect the older chip, then I would agree with you. But this will be priced higher than the new AMD chip, so it is worth mentioning. AI is the future, so a better NPU is definitely a positive and worth upgrading to, IMHO.
@@andyH_England Both versions will be well out of date before AI finds it's feet and does more than a background blur on a webcam! Think the early 3D graphics cards from 30 years ago...
@@johnroberts2905what are you on about? AI can create videos now.
is the display VA or IPS?
Finally a labtop review i wanna see 👍 none of those blhe razor/macs
Love the philosophy. I want to support it, just more than I’m willing to spend.