This is Why Heat Pumps May NOT Be The Future
2021 ж. 18 Шіл.
2 326 419 Рет қаралды
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Heat pumps explained. Roger rants about air source heat pump disadvantages, the green homes grant, types of heat pumps and asks are heat pumps worth it?
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#HeatPumps #Rant #AirSourceHeatPumps
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you were right :)
HEAT PUMPS ARE ANOTHER EXPENSIVE SCAM TO FREEZE YOU OUT
I saved 3000 dollars when I installed a heat pump. So can you
Good story m8. And true. Its even worse though. There is no global warming other than recovery from little ice age and CO2 does not affect temperature. Lots of studies found no correlation and worse again even; CO2 is THE life giving substance on earth. Plants need it to grow and the current levels of CO2 are too low, bc there is continuous binding (by tiny lifeforms) into rock. Thats where the vast majority of CO2 is now. If anything, using fossil fuels is needed and there is plenty of it. Then the question remains why they push this nonsense. I think it is 2 fold: One, for the people in power to gain power and TWO, because of the principle that mankind has always tried to free people from labor by producing more efficiently. This has brought us to the situation where half the jobs in the west are non producing/ non functional jobs. So they want to push new things all the time, to employ more people and keep money 'rolling'. Our currencies (none of which are actual money) are going down as the west is crumbling financially and economically. All this creates new tech, new products, new jobs (as you also state) and postpones the inevitable for a bit. But that wont last. One of those fields is solar and wind energy, but that only works, bc they keep increasing prices and have most of that stuff made in China, with fossil fuels. Thats all trickery. Energtically there is no gain of energy from solar and wind, as it is used now. It depends somewhat on the lifespan, which is pretty certain at this time for windturbines and for solar... probably not much more than stated. Also the efficiency of solar cell panels gradually goes down. Same as for hear pumps, but in a different way. Heat pump sounds nice, but again, you have to add all cost to make an energetic balance and i dont think its going to be beneficial. The entire circus is probably going to come crash down soon.
@@bengteklund1576 LOL
I live in the USA and I’ve worked in the HVAC field for almost 40 years. I have serviced and installed just about every type of heating/cooling system there is during that time, and I have seen end users who were unhappy with every type of heating and cooling system there is. When looking into why the occupants were unhappy, the root cause is just as often the deficiencies in the building envelope, as it has been the equipment itself. I live in a rural area and currently use a closed loop geothermal heat pump to heat and cool my house. It works very well for me, because my local utility offers a great rate per KW for heat pumps, my house is newer and VERY well insulated, with an excellent vapor barrier, and the ductwork was designed with extra heat runs in order to reduce the velocity of the relatively cooler air being supplied during the heating mode. I always tell homeowners to invest in insulating and improving the vapor barrier of their home if possible BEFORE investing in a high efficiency heating system; especially a heat pump system. Even the most expensive and most efficient heating system will not work well, and the occupants of the home won’t be comfortable if there is unwanted air movement through the structure, and too much heat transfer through the walls and ceilings! I have seen quite a few unhappy homeowners who were sold a heat pump system for an old, under insulated, drafty farmhouse. The poor building envelope, relatively low supply air temperature, coupled with the higher amount of air being moved, results in high electric bills and uncomfortable occupants. I always say: Just because it says “high efficiency” on the box doesn’t mean the appliance jumps out of it and cures all of your heating/cooling headaches. A good building envelope is at least half the battle, then if you select, design, install, and control a good quality, high efficiency, heating and cooling system, you will have low operating costs, and comfortable occupants!
How do you install the outsource if the owner live in tall apartment?
@@Frommirrorworld You don’t, or there is one master system for the building that uses a piped system to move hot or cold water through the building. No one system fits every possible situation.
It will be interesting to see the report later this year on the BPA’s tests around the PNW using carbon dioxide (R744 for you HVAC folks) water-heating heat pumps for space heating. They picked maritime and moderate on the Coast, i.e. temperate rainforest, temperate and moderate west of Cascades, or Puget Sound and Willamette Valley, inland dry and colder, think Spokane and Bend, Oregon, and quite cold locations (McCall, Idaho?). Don’t quote me too closely on locations. I skimmed it six months ago. Final report is always more interesting.
Interestingly, my Thermopride (the best oil fired furnace burner, period) oil furnace has a temperature of ~105-110F at the supply vents. My Fujitsu mini split air handler pushes out heat at 120F. Modern heat pumps are unbeatable.
One simple wood furnace can create 30kw of energy easily and costs 1k bucks or even less and will heat up a small house with a very bad insulation. On the other side 30kw heat exchange pump will cost hell of a money counted in tens of thousands dollars and isn't affordable. That's what many people don't understand. Insulation is first step to bring the loss of energy down and heat pump is last.
I'm a Brit living in Iceland, it's crazy how well insulated the homes here are compared to the UK. A home can be warm enough just with sunlight coming through the windows when it's 0c. But when heating is needed it's geothermal water pumped from the ground directly into your home, for £25 a month... totally green and cheap, it's ideal!
Meanwhile in Australia we are all still googling what the word insulation means
The price for all that free geothermal energy is having earthquakes and massive volcanic eruptions, isn't it?
@@kingcurry6594 Everything in life's a trade off
So, basically, the solution is to move everyone to Iceland? Don't you worry it might get a bit crowded there and that keeping your houses warm economically will suddenly become the least of your problems?
@@kingcurry6594 luckily they have strict building regulations so the earthquake aren't a problem in terms of damage, and the biggest volcanos are a good distance away from the population areas, but yes there's risks
I live in Tennessee. I designed and built my house 31 years ago as a passive solar using a heat pump. Overall I’ve been very happy with the results. During the summer the unit runs much more than in the winter. So it actually cost us more to cool than to heat. The difference is about half as much to heat due to how well the sun heats the house, providing it’s sunny out. But I have gas logs in the fireplace, and they actually can hear the house nicely.
Mike My house is similar to your with passive heat. I replaced old ac unit with 37 seer one. It's big for an ac unit BUT much larger coils and cycles less so cost to run is far less than older ones. Paied for itself in a few years. Cost little to run.
Combine it with solar panels and you get your cooling costs covered and also a big part of your heating costs!
I am in complete agreement on 'Heat?' Pumps! The other thing you mentioned Heated Jackets. People these days seem to think that the house should be hot enough for just a t-shirt in the winter. Growing up we always wore jackets in the house during cold weather, few houses at that time had central heating. Perhaps we are all getting a bit soft!!
Or just don't skimp on insulation when building a new home
_"People these days seem to think that the house should be hot enough for just a t-shirt in the winter."_ *AND?? As long as I pay for what I choose to use I should damn well get it!* And btw, this is 20 bloody 24, *not* 1924 (wearing a jacket inside during cold weather... give me a break!
I live in Sweden and my house has a heat pump as do almost all houses here in the far North. Mine works down to about -15c below that I use electric radiators. My neighbour has one that will work down to -25c. The heat pump is not the problem. It's the type of housing that the UK has. Even new builds are not that well insulated. We have no gas but we have surplus electricity.
Cold and dry isn't a problem for air source heat pumps but 3C with a dewpoint of 1C (a very typical UK winter situation) causes a rapid build up of ice so the CoP and duty cycle go through the floor. I have an ASHP on an outbuilding and sure, it's OK above about 7C and OK below about -5C but these are not the typical UK conditions.
That is basically what the video says too
Your elecricity price is lower than the prices in Germany for example. We pay in average 0,3 EUR/kWh
What is Sweden's main electricity source? I wonder what the ground temps are in Sweden and if y'all can do ground source hear pump
In my experience, heat pumps work fine in cold dry weather. The problem comes with damp weather. If it is between 32 and 45 and humidity is high, the heat pump freezes up. It drastically reduces heating power and efficiency. Under these conditions, I doubt it is more efficient or environmentally friendly than natural gas. I also question if your system has supplemental resistance heating, most do? If the resistance heating is being used then it is less efficient than natural gas.
Well, seems like you were right on the money about gas prices.
A micro chp like H2PS-5 is the solution.
Another one of his videos that has aged remarkably well. Skill Builder has his ear to the ground / knows quite a few people !
+1 great comment
The guys a genius!!
In fairness I don't think this Government has the skill or intelligence to manipulate the market to that extreme. Besides electricity has sky rocketed too. Rather it's men in suits exploiting a business opportunity and jumping on the carbon free band wagon. Oh wait...
I switched 2 years ago from gas to a heat pump. My house 1992, so not so super insulated. Yes, you should pay attention to the house insulation first. According to my experience, it is better to have several source of energy (e.g. combining it with a fireplace, what older house have, or a wood furnance, in case of price shocks or no electricity). For a 200m2 house a 12-16kw heat pump in older houses is recommendable (energy efficient houses require less kw). So in autumn and spring, heat pumps have no issues. In winter at around -14°C the coefficient goes down, this is the point where wood makes sense, to keep the electricity bill low. A 16kw can handle that, but maybe not your wallet. In my area where I live, maybe 2-3 days/year with -10°C are common.
Just been quoted £16.900 for air source heat pump installation on a well insulated 1950s bungalow . My next door neighbour has stopped using his air source , and having a vies man combi gas boiler re-installed . It kind of tells the whole story !
We are hearing this a lot. It would be good to interview your neighbour, maybe on Zoom to hear their story.
Going with a ZEB storage heater myself, but won't get the £15k - £7.5k discount
these prices are just bonkers for air to air pumps.. what sieze house you got? My grandparent have a 1960's suburban house, used to have direct electricity heating, they installed a air to air heatpump for less then 3000 euros, covering 90% of their heating needs over the year. Their house walls have less then 10cm of insulation, added insulation to the attic for another 2-3000 euros and their heating costs have gone down with 70% that heat pump payed itself off in a few years. Air to air pumps for a 100 sqm house should not cost that much, and in the cases you need bigger pump.. here people tend to buy a second or even third pump for basement or if they got more floors. If your house consist of many rooms, air to air is also less effective. If you got a water radiator system and your house is big or many rooms, air to water is the way to go, or even better geothermal, but more costly investment.
@@mycide UK is air to water pumps generally
@@JoolsUK price makes more sense then. Is it common with circulating water radiators in UK? Gas heated or oil still common? Here houses between 60- late 80s many houses had direct electricity, giving little options to air to air, specially town and city houses. Clean and cheap power back then 100% hydro and nuclear, we didn't export more then what we didn't need. tax payers built all energy here and now we get to pay insane prices for our own power that is cheap to produce.. something rotten.
Been running air to air heatpump for 12 years in Norway. Works as intended even in -25. Current pumps are even better...
I have the same situation and it works fine. But homes need to be well insulated.
But would a gas boiler in your home be cheaper and more efficient if it was as available and priced the same as the UK, including installation and maintenance costs over that 12 year period?
@@simonpeggboard4004 if u go that route the most cost efficient is really good insulation and electric floor heating, really cheap installation and no maintenance ever. It almost never breaks either and the repairs are very cheap. But good luck getting subsidies for that.
@@Jester-rm9ox Not sure they have subsidies for heat pumps in Norway (which was the subject of the conversation). Last time I checked electric underfloor was less reliable than wet underfloor by a factor of 3, but been a while since I looked.
Yes, air to air Heat pumps work great for being cheap, and heating the air. and they do even more in the UK, but the problem is that they want to phase out the Gass boilers, and the gass make the heated tap-water. Not many houses in Norway use the Air to Water or water to water pumps as they cost way more, are more complicated, takes more room etc. And they can't get ass efficient as the temperature has to be twice as hot(because of the tap water).
This panel can put out close to 100 watts kzhead.infoUgkxOqI2yqX0XVrhR2BMJciTWrHJpG8FhJyg when positioned in the appropriate southernly direction, tilted to the optimal angle for your latitude/date, and connected to a higher capacity device than a 500. The built in kickstand angle is a fixed at 50 degrees. Up to 20% more power can be output by selecting the actual date and latitude optimal angle.The 500 will only input 3.5A maximum at 18 volts for 63 watts. Some of the excess power from the panel can be fed into a USB battery bank, charged directly from the panel while also charging a 500. This will allow you to harvest as much as 63 + 15 = 78 watts.If this panel is used to charge a larger device, such as the power station, then its full output potential can be realized.
We live in an old house in Sweden. When we moved in 20 years ago, it had a "combi furnace" for oil and wood, with an electric heating element. Because of the drastic increase in oil price, the old tennant only ran it on electricity. He had however also installed a hearth "casette" in the livingroom fireplace for cold winter days. The first year in the house we used 28000 kWh and also about 150 bags (about 3 cubic meters) of firewood. And we had a constant shortage of hot water. That’s when we installed our first converter. It was about 60% effective, but sadly it had to be replaced after 14 years. We are now four years into our second converter. It produces heat for the water radiators and also fills a large accumulator tank for our hot water needs. In the last four years, we have used between 13000 and 15000 kWh yearly. We have not burned a single log and we have never run out of hot water. Additionally, at 15000 kWh we were able to raise the indoor temperature to a comfortable 22 degrees C in the winter, from 20 before. In the warm season, when it only makes hot tap water, it uses less than 400 kWh per month. We are four people in the family. Unfortunately, with the current shortage of electricity, we have cut back to 19 degrees C last winter. But we are still very satisfied with the system. It saves 70% electricity or slightly better and pays for itself in 5-6 years. If we used firewood for the coldest weeks in winter, we could cut another 1500 kWh, but it's hardly worth the trouble.
Been checking the heat pump sites and you are so right. What you say about heated clothing is the best idea, I now invest in thermal underwear and insulation for the house and have had a comfortable winter on background heating. As a bonus I find as soon as we get a bit of winter sun I can sit outside to enjoy my pint !!
I am a retired Carpenter and Joiner now in my ninth decade. I recall the ststements I heard as an apprentice and they were a bunch of hard working well experienced tradesmen who had lived through hard times, some fighting in two world wars. Roger is singing from the same hymn-sheet and he will be proved right. Listen to him and take what he says on board.
No, new homes need to be built properly.
@@robuk3723 ur mum gae
@@robuk3723 How about you pay to tear down all the old houses not well built enough, and rebuild energy efficient homes for them. Do something to help or shut up
Insulation Insulation Insulation! Wherever you can put it, put it! Pipes, attic and if possible, floors.
Well said Bob, totally agree and as a retired engineer myself the modern world suffers from an inability to think practically and learn from those with knowledge. Good intentions and profits lead us down the wrong roads often.
Been in stitches watching this video. Absolutely loved it. I worked for a renewable energy company about 12 years ago and pretty much every house in London was unsuitable for a heat pump due to lack of insulation and having solid walls. When we did sell a heat pump they were installed by guys who had no idea what they were doing. If the heat pump is overworked it can cost hundreds of pounds to run each month. This government has no idea what they are talking about.
David.... That has been my argument from the start. It's all just a new fad that the Government has latched onto. Sound Bites.... that's all we get from the brain dead in Westminster. Heat pumps do not work in 99% of houses in the UK. End of argument. But. When will they listen? Sod the idea of "Ripping out Gasboilers"...and giving grants to install these totally impractical Heat Pumps. Put the grant money (Taxpayers) into new builds that are as efficient as possible....and go from there. Why oh why do they insist on putting the cart before the horse? Boris has the perfect opportunity to get this right.... Yet he seems incapable of seeing the wood for the trees. It could cost him the next election. (You owe me a pint Boris.) (Corruption is rife.)
@@patagualianmostly7437 Unfortunately our PM is a complete idiot. He is very good at increasing the Uk birth rate but lacks technical expertise when it comes to viable heating sources.
yes more hot air from Government liked the idea of air source heat pumps now looks like a wood burner is the best route
@@DavidGarcia-mm6sh careful you may some boris lapdogs feelings haha
The government not knowing what they are doing!! Are you sure ? 😁
My stone cottage has solid stone walls three feet thick. It was built about 275 years ago. The thermal mass of the building is amazing. It is always toasty warm in the winter, and nice and cool in a hot summer. My only source of heating is a log burner, using free wood waste.
my house is 600 years old
@@JohnSmith-en6ev I'm getting there slowly, one year at a time.
You’re lucky. Here in America we build our houses out of wood and chemically-laden wood waste. At least we have fiberglass meat in our wood/wood waste sandwiches; but that certainly does not compensate for a lack of thermal mass.
You must live in the UK - about the only place in the world that I know of where people think 10 deg C is "toasty warm". 😁
May I ask how you manage the fine particles from the burning of wood?
In the US, you can get a heat pump rebate and still have a furnace. I live in NH in a re-insulated 1860s home, and I have a Bosch dual-fuel forced air system (heat pump/gas furnace). I can configure a balance point to set when each system kicks in. I have found it less expensive to run the heat pump down to around 10° F (the heat pump functions to -5°F ), it heats well but the output air is not as hot as the gas furnace (~ 95° vs 120°). Another plus with the heat pump is we now have central AC. I also have solar which offsets the cost.
The Doctors' surgery behind our house has some kind of heat exchange system which fires up at 2 am and runs for half an hour. Then at about 3.30am it starts again. The outside equipment is around 50 yards away but it still wakes me up most nights. I can only imagine the noise if every house had one. There must be a viable alternative.
Our next door neighbour has an oil fired central heating system that makes a racket when it fires up. Meanwhile my three neighbouring air source heat pumps and my ground source heat pump are inaudible.
@@rogerphelps9939 that thing must be malfunctioning. Furnaces (no matter the fuel) are usually inaudible from outside the building.
Here's what I see happening, Boris will give government contracts to a friend to install these around the UK, just after buying stocks in that company
Exactly!!
Agreed, but obviously they will cock it up too.
@Jesus Jones "Insider Trading" has harsh penalties for the common folk, but not for the elite
Like the vaccine
Darren: They all do! All sides of the house are hypocrites.... It's ACCESS they crave...not the salary of an MP.
I live in NJ near the ocean. Low temps in the winter are typically in the mid 20s with highs around 40 F. After our 1st winter in our new to us home we replaced the heat pumps and ran natural gas. Our home is well insulated, but the cool breeze that was created by the heat pump system during heat mode was downright unpleasant. Our gas+electricity bill in winter is about 30% of our bill in summer.
Average temperature in NJ is about 40F for the heating season. A hybrid system would do you well. Not sure what energy costs are in NJ these days. Utilities will quote a number per kWh which is not what you pay. Look at your energy bill for all the additions. When I lived in NJ, energy companies quoted $.10/ kWh but the final bill was closer to $.21/ kWh. That was 10 years ago.😅😅
You are not supposed to sit right next to the discharge head - where the airflow is strongest. All the reviews I have seen show the air discharge temperature from the head to be around 90 - 100 degrees F, which most people would find uncomfortably warm.
The title is very misleading. The heat pumps are actually genius appliances and in the last years they have become super efficient. When I built my house 10y ago heat pumps were very expensive and you would have to consider ground-water types to get a decent COP; so I have chosen a wood pellet boiler (one of the best market had to offer at that time). Now air-water heat pumps are almost just as efficient with a fraction of the cost (both the device and esp. installation) - I'm sure that my next boiler will be a heat pump 😀. Before this winter I installed a high quality A/C unit (Mitsubishi 12000BTU) with the possibility to heat using its heat pump (rated with a COP of around 3-4 for my area - Romania). I successfully heated half of my (two storey) house with 100kWh per month and burnt around 130kg pellets LESS (per month) - if you do the math the wood pellets give around 600-700 kWh; of course my COP was not 6-7 but the difference is in the wood pellet boiler efficiency (rated at 85-90% but i'm sure that it's waaay less). Worth mentioning that my house is extremely well insulated (proabably pretty close to passive house reqs.) Now, I said that the title is misleading because the issue is that houses are not well insulated not that the heat pumps are bad. UK's govt should help people insulate their houses better and THEN replace the gas boiler with a heat pump (you do more with the same money). It's a pity that people in general are not too educated and they don't see the point in investing more in their insulation (either for new constructions or retrofitting already built ones) although, when they move in, they are unhappy; in my opinion THAT is the real solution to this issue and it applies perfectly to all hot/cold/humid/dry areas - INSULATE BETTER! HEAT PUMPS ARE THE FUTURE, BUT OUR HOUSES ARE FROM THE PAST!
What I learned from this video: 1. Poorly insulated houses are harder to heat. 2. Whether you save with a heat pump depends on the relative cost of gas vs electricity. 3. All Brit's have poorly insulated homes and access to cheap gas. What I DID NOT learn from this video: 1. How to properly size a heat pump for a specific home. 2. That a heat pump can operate as an air conditioner in the summer. 3. What the economic and environmental costs of burning gas are.
We can live without air conditioning in the UK, and save energy doing so.
I don't see anything in the video title that specifies you would learn those things.
@@andrewlevett4274 Agreed, I can think of about 3 weeks in my 47 years of living in England when I felt the need for air con.
Not cheap gas!
Don't worry about the environmental impacts. You're not going to be around forever.
It took me about 20 minutes to install it on my own. As long as you can lift it out the box and up into position you’re good. I did have to break the box to get it out as it was a snug fit. I followed the installation video on you tube which was a big help. I added this to support central air in my house that was struggling upstairs because of my house design. Lovely unit. Very quiet kzhead.infoUgkx_hHgTlzH3uk31Fe2RVS3xEbXHGaN_z5T and looks sharp. Had it in a couple of weeks and so far so good. It’s cooling a bedroom about 25ft X 15 no problem at all.
I live in Massachusetts and my old house that was built when fuel was cheap. I added a layer of insulation in the attic and reduced my fuel cost by only about 10%. I then replaced the air conditioners with heat pumps and left the fuel system in place as a backup in case the outside temp fell below -15°C. After this, paid only 15% of the cost in electric that I usually paid in fuel in all my years before. I was so pleased with the system that my new home has 10 zones from a heat pump system. Yes, the new house is very well insulated, and I can heat all 6600+ sq ft of it with less than 50kBTUs, so the heat pumps are ideal. Maybe things here in the USA are different, but the heat pumps here are great. They do save money. Many of the issues you cite do not happen here. For one, the systems are not that noisy and the fans don’t get louder over time. The comment on gas systems is correct in that they are getting very efficient. However, even if the gas system is 100% efficient, the heat pump uses 75+% less energy. So, if the cost of energy in electricity in the UK is more than four times the energy in natural gas, then yes the gas system is a better choice. But for my money, the little noise coming from the heat pump is better than the smell of burnt gas.
I've got a 7kw aircon unit that also heats. In the winter it is great, costs about 30p an hour to run. It doesnt heat the full house, but it heats the room i'm in and the rest of the house a bit. My gas boiler gobbles money, so im more than happy with the heat pump. Oh, and it's great in summer too! Nice cool air when everyone else is opening windows and complaining how hot the house is..
The U.K government is trying to discourage air con units being fitted. The idea is to save energy because we are still a long way off having green electricty so air con will be powered by gas fired power stations.
I live in Switzerland in an old, poorly insulated Swiss chalet. I insulated it and installed a ground source heat pump and underfloor heating. It's now draft free, cheap to run, and as almost all Swiss electricity in Switzerland is hydro-electric it's CO2 free. UK friends love to visit in the winter because my house is so comfortable. I hate to visit UK homes in the winter because they're so horribly insulated.
You forget to mention that electricity in your country costs nothing compared to the price in the rest of Europe
@@ltjuglans194 Actually, the price of electricity in Switzerland is a little higher than the UK. France is quite a bit cheaper. Switzerland is pretty close to the European average.
@@davidellis2021 France has nuclear power
@@moetocafe So has Switzerland. What's your point exactly?
@@davidellis2021 my point is, that nuclear power is one of the cheapest and with very stable fuel prices, unlike any other energy source. I don't know the energy mix of both countries, but probably France has much higher percentage of nuclear in their mix, than Swiss.
We just retrofitted our old early 1900's farm house with air-conditioning with the optional heat pumps. Two systems were installed, a spacewalk for the main floor, and a carrier system for the upstairs and attic. The house is 2300 sq feet plus a 400 sq fit attic, which was also included in the system. Previously, the home had hot water radiator heat and no AC. The boiler runs on natural gas. The boiler is 38 year old. The new system is designed to heat utilizing the heat pumps until the outside temperature gets down to 28 degrees. After that, the boiler kicks on. So far, with over a year of use, our highest monthly utility bill has been $118.00 US or both electric and gas. This is just over 1/3 or our previous high bills of 312.00. The system was very expensive to us, but having these ultra low bills, do help me appreciate the initial cost. I have zero complaints. Saving up now for a boiler replacement.
Newest heat pumps can go down into -5's F or lower. You should look at upgrading.
yeah.. i dont know why he is all worked up about
That's just terrific;; just hope the utility doesn't have the bright idea of increasing their rates; they do that from time to time!
@@cranbers Efficiency drops the lower you go. I live where the temps go down to -20F and lower.
That heat jacket is really a good idea. I work in my house with a heated chair with room temperatures at about 15 degrees. Sometimes my fingers get stiff because of the cold though, and I cannot play guitar or type quickly. The greenest solution for your house is always isolation and elimination of heat losses. You can lend or buy a heat camera and make a heat picture of your house when it is cold to get the places where you prioritize your efforts in this. You are completely right about heat pumps, when the outside temperature drops the gain in efficiency of heat pumping compared to an direct electric resistance heater becomes negligible. And power from coal and gas from your grid supplier is made wide 40% efficiency so when coal or gas is burned you need at least an effiency factor of 2.5 to have an ecological gain , that is not in deep winter temperatures. Where all the electric power would come from in a huge winter is not yet solved, as in pure winter there is little sun and sometimes even wind can not deliver when the blades on the sea or land wind parks are frozen with ice deposits. Just one "terrible"winter will change the minds of the greenies that think this is a solution. The damage of a power outage in such a winter water systems will be huge all over the projects that use this technology,:frozen houses, sewer systems, leaking pipes,cracks in the wall, with additional poor people frozen to death inside their home ,or sick because of the cold. It is not even a matter of economics , that can be for personal decision-making be covered up by subsidies, it is pure technical energy input -output calculation that makes this a very bad idea, as the investment in energy and raw materials could be nearly as high or bigger than the gain. To begin with, CO2 is not the devil's gas, it is on the contrary, an essential food for plants that is good for the earth and that have in geological past times always fluctuated and that is now very scare at 1 in 2500 molecuels in the air. CO2 as driver of temperature change is fake science. So the whole presumption of the gov on CO2 is just BS to begin with. The gov claims that it is science , but it is croony science, only there for opportunistic causes: modern Lysenko-ism. This heat pump plan belongs in the waste bucket as many more "green" plans like electric cars, bio energy, abandonment of nuclear energy, nitrogen fertilization limits. The EU is still on this path until the European economy is not there anymore. Germany will topple over and will be poor and hungry the next generation as they were the most fanatic in green policies. Green stands for hypocrisy, dumb ideas and corruption.
kzhead.info/sun/n7SfgrqIgJSnZ30/bejne.html
I used to install, around 32 degrees and lower outside a heat pump is shoveling crap against the tide. They are a beautiful thing down to around 40 to 38 degrees. Lower than that and it starts to COST MORE to run it, electric strips start picking up the slack, defrost cycle, CRUNCH. I use a heat-pump down to 32 30 and then switch to oil.
That is a good plan and there are now a lot of hybrid systems. I think that is the way forward
so, they work best after you insulated your house,= ok! but your old heating system will work also much more efficient in an insulated house.
@@John-ed2wj law of physics anybody? no?
energieerhaltungssatz, in english conservation of energy
Exactly.
But a lot of the current UK housing stock CAN NOT be insulated. All the best.
@@ivancho5854 why cant it be insulated? I really cant understand.
Lovely Rant No gas in my area, installed a heat pump whilst renovating and up graded all the insulation to spec of building control. Absolutely brilliant and electric bills were very cheap for the whole building and plenty of hot water. Could not complain about the system.
How much for the pump and how much to install ?
What country do you live in?
I live in Devon, England
I had the pump installed in 2010, the pump along cost £7000.
Yeah, you want to rip your house apart to install a completely new system. No way. Actually is this not a similar punt as the whole solar panel scam? They really do think we are simple.
Very well said. Combining heat pumps with radiators instead of underfloor heating is a not an efficient solution since even the best heat pump cannot provide more than 60 Celsius. A heat radiator requires 75- 80 Celsius to provide max efficiency. You can add a DC electric heat element inside a hot water cylinder and combine it with a solar panel.
If you want maximum efficiency from a heat pump, forced air would be a better idea (like a mini split). They also work at lower temps compared to radiators.
I had a happy childhood. In winter my mother heated up the kitchen in the morning using a wood stove. And that was it. No heating anywhere else in the house. In summer the woodstove was taken out. Maybe 2 m3 for a winter? Family of 16 people. We had some trees in the garden, so actually no cost (as the trees grew back). Now Indonesia: no air-conditioning. no cost.
Well done Roger, especially about the "where there's a blame, there's a claim" mob ringing you up to see if you want compensation
Also the uk government we was told buy diesel then diesel was bad. Then to counter the bad have diesel euro 5 meaning Adblue.
@@marcus577 USA utilities pull the same crap!
@@marcus577 adblue is seventy three percent distilled water then put in your urea, probably as good if you peed in there, just a matter of time before they find its either harmful to humans or the environment, but by then the millions would have been made, so that's fine!!.
One year after this video was published Rodger, I realise you are clairvoyant ! Well done sir.
I tried heating with gas and i was using small calor gas style gas bottles to heat my hot water and one or two radiators. It chewed through that gas like something crazy. I went straight back to burning wood or pellets but even pellets and wood went up by around 30% in France. I'm currently using electricity with a fan heater because i don't have any wood right now.
Thank the support for a war in ukraine and stopping low cost trade with russian fuel which resulted in your energy prices gettting jacked up its affecting us in camada too. The political world is a joke right now. Everyone need sto stop being devided and work as a team no matter where you were originally born
Thank you for your video. I'm just learning about them. My home is all electric. There is no gas where I live, in the mountains of California. I use a fireplace and electric radiator heaters. The electric rates here have more than doubled in the past few years. Now, the utility company is telling us about heat pumps as a less expensive way to heat in winter. We already use air conditioners in the summer. When I watched your video, as well as another from the U.K., my immediate thought was, I wonder why they automatically use a water reservoir and water radiators, if they cost thirty thousand pounds to install. As you said in your video. I'm writing this two years after you recorded this. So my question might be obsolete. I assume it's because the radiator infrastructure is already pervasive. Common. The most obvious and already intact system. Here, the first thing that is presented are split vent systems, that blow air. You mount them on the wall. But that is more of a single zone solution. Maybe the water tank best serves a whole house.
A good friend of mine with 45 year refrigeration experience told me that refrigeration and low cost don't come together when we were discussing air to water heating systems, I do believe him as any advise I received from him was always on the money.
I live in Canada, have had two heat pumps since 2012 replacing base board electrical heat.. I do have good quality insulation and have experienced huge savings since then. No incentives were available and costs were paid back by 2018. No issues down to -20 as it doesn’t get any colder here. I do agree with the insulation comments. I would spend my money on insulation first, then on heating system.
There are some pumps that work at -70. There are also some pumps that work at +70. There are however no pumps that work at both +70 and -70. This is why you should always buy one in a local store and never from ebay or amazon or wherever else on the internet. It sure can be more expensive, but at least you can be sure you're buing the right one for your local climate.
How much do you pay for gas in Canada? In the UK it is generally ⅕th the price of electricity so no way a heat pump can compete with an efficient gas boiler.
@@eckyhen heat pumps are more than ten times efficient. Not only that, but UK is importing gas, so it's bad for the economy.
@@goury I assume by ten times more efficient you mean a cop of ten. I have never heard of a heat pump that can go that high, especially in real world conditions where 3 seems to be more typical.
@@goury That is complete bullshit. The max COP you get out of a heat pump is 3, modern gas boilers are near 100% efficient. Since UK electric is nearly 10 times the price of gas, that means a gas boiler costs ONE THIRD as much to run as a heat pump. . . I know, I fit them, then we come back in winter to 'upgrade' them with a gas boiler.
I replaced the old oil boiler with a heat pump about a year ago. For context, yes I live in Scandinavia, but the house is quite large, no forced air circulation, no AC, and it was built in the 70's. Over the years we have added insulation to the roof (significant reduction in oil consumption), replaced doors and some windows (again, significant reduction in oil consumption) and as is the norm around here, all windows are double pane and at each enterance there is a small mud room you have to go through (front door - small mud room [1-10m^2] - regular door). To be clear, those relatively inexpensive improvements have reduced the fuel consumption by about 50-60%. While the insulation in the walls does not meet the current building codes, adding more would be difficult, expencive and require us to install a forced air circulation system. About the current heating system: For winter, we expect about one month of average temperatures being around -10C, and about one week avg. between -15C and -20C, peaking around -30C. For summer we expect avg. temperature of around 20C for 2 months, peaking at around 30C. Due to cold winter, we decided to burry about 1km of pipe, about 1,5 meters deep on a nearby field, so the sun gradually heats up the clay soil in the field over the summer, and that energy is slowly transferred to the house during the winter. Indoor temps stay at or above 21C through out the year (lowered to 20 or 19C during the winter if electricity is ludacrously expensive). There is constantly hot water, and it won't run out even if multiple people take a shower in turns. Heat pump COP at it's worst (late winter when the field is at it's coldest and it's still -10 to -15C outside) has been 3,5 and during the summer when it's more or less only heating hot water, the COP has hovered around 4,8. For me, COP of 3 sounds horrible, but maybe that is the land of air-source heat pumps. What difference has there been since switching from oil to heat pump? The hot water temp. got lowered by few degrees C (just hot enough to keep legionella out), which was a noticable difference. There is still hot water, it's just slightly less hot. Very different from a district heating system where the temp in the heat exchanger is well over 90C. Apart from that, there hasn't been a difference (well, we no longer need to order more oil once a year). Is it worth it? The timing was not great, as right after the installation the cost of electricity increased by 600% for the winter, but in the long run it's probably worth it even if we continue to see occational high electricity prices. Could it be made more efficient? Yes. The system would be much more efficient if we had water based floor heating. Is it worth it for this house? Not really. Maybe if there was major renovations, but there shouldn't be any for at least 10-15 years.
Thank you for your comment, it would be good to do a Zoom call with you to see your house and have a chat, it would make a good video
How good the insulation is does not affect the efficiency of heat pump.
You could install an enourmous quadruple insulated buffer boiler and only run the heatpump in the afternoon, like from noon to 5 pm, using the hottest air available on the day. Or you could drill down 50 m and install your pump there. Maybe instead of asking each home owner to install their heatpumps, there could be small geothermic plants in each village and city providing heat for the local community.
I installed a air to water heat pump 3 years ago in a 1950s house in southern Scandinavia with no cavity wall insulation and minimal insulation consisting of wooden chips in the loft. It has locally hand made double glassed windows also from the 1950s. Previous heating was converted oil to electrical and I'm using the original water radiators. Water was heated separately with an electrical heater. I can safely say I have not only a more evenly heated house (not sure why, but it is), but my heating bill has been reduced by 75%-80%. The noise pollution has been minimal.
What's the point of your statement if you dont state what unit you are using ? you are blowing more hot air than your heat pump !
@@luckyPiston 14 kW Mitsubishi Ecodan R32 Zubadan outside unit. Covers 350m² with some extra headroom for a possible future extension.
Well, you did go from electrical to heat pump. Higher efficiency is to be expected in this case. In the UK most houses use gas for heating.
Noise.. Have you considered LFN (low frequency noise)? You may very well not hear it, but LFN can travel miles causing totally unsuspecting citizens to search for a hum they will never be able to explain, but seriously disturbs their peace.
@@spiceworks5704 A very valid point. Noise is similar to an air conditioning unit. We did turn the unit by 90° as my neighbour did experience some low level humming noise that he noticed at night and just above the background noise. It is in the country side, so very quiet. He has a background as an engineer in Radio/Television and he measured using his sound level meter.
What a fantastic video. I investigated heat pumps ten years ago for a new build and rejected because of noise, vibration and running costs. This video needs to be seen by every MP.
Most MP's I feel have invested heavily into the manufacture of Heat Pumps.
The UN doesn't care about this video, they're the ones pulling the strings, and your very own politicians are selling you and your children's futures out to this globalist tyranny.
I agree. This video needs to be seen by everyone.
@@Guillotines_For_Globalists Yet, the gas petrochemical companies are not globalists with a vested interest in maintaining their hegemony, no....????
@@leod-sigefast Their CEOs and boards of directors are, absolutely, yes. Exxon, BP, all have environmentalist greenies at the helms. Ask your financial advisor about this and let me know what they tell you.
I had a heat pump / mini- split system installed just a few weeks ago. I keep the heat at a lower temp and wear a sweater, but if I needed more heat it would be there. When it was first installed I had the heat set just a bit higher and it was too warm in the bedrooms. I’m not sure what my yearly cost to heat will be but my gas bill was always high and getting higher.
And you no longer have the explosion/fire risks of using gas.
I spent 15 or 20mins researching heat pumps and then I find you. You are the only view In my search results that had a negative or opposing view. It's almost like a algorithmic conspiracy that I am shown only 1 view point on a search result. 🧐 I have in floor heating with a nat gas boiler in northern alberta. I see my government in Canada pushing these heat pumps, hence my interest. Whenever I see government intervention into anything I have skepticism. Reading all the pros and benefits of heat pumps and seeing nothing negative must trick a lot of people to make bad decisions. I'll stick with my reliable natural gas for heating and hot water. I'm actually considering at the moment to remove my electric stove and put in natural gas😅
I would need to see a cost analysis to believe what is claimed in the video. There are plenty of videos where such costs are analyzed. I have not seen any that backs the OP's claims.
The reason for the stressing of insulation is due to the differences in how heat pumps supply heating. The price difference between a 5KW gas boiler and a 10KW boiler is relatively small, but is significant in HPs, so the cost of initial install is much less if you can reduce your heating needs. If you ignore equipment costs, sure, just buy a massive 17KW HP for your cottage, but it makes more sense to insulate first whatever your heat source.
True...but that's far from being even as easy as easier said than done. I told my landlord that the winter before last would be the last winter I'd have an ugly wood pile outside of the workshop because I'd be insulating the building and putting propane heaters in. Well...I did a crap load of insulating but when it comes to something that had no insulation to begin with insulating it means a major construction project, tearing out drywall and such. The building I'm talking about has auto repair equipment all over the damn place! Just moving stuff to get ladders in there to insulate the ceiling is nearly impossible. And I'll tell you this, if you have one area that you simply can't thoroughly insulate, you're screwed! The cold air will suck up a crap load of propane and you'll be wishing the wood stove was back. I told him this winter I'd be heating with wood for as long as I live here and work here. If that's a problem, tell me know, I'll move out. He said, "can you put a tarp over it in the summer?" LOL I will still work at insulating but the next project that needs to happen is a small walk in door so that I don't loose so much heat when I open the overhead door to walk in. I'm still going to loose all my heat when the door opens though. So what's going to happen? I'll use both wood heat and natural gas but I refuse to use propane. It's FAR more expensive than natural gas which he uses in the house. Let me tie into the gas and I'd rip the stove out tomorrow! But "no, I don't want to do that" he says. You can't win! LOL
i will tell every conservative that heat pumps are a liberal conspiracy
Because we all are living in nicely done excel sheet of perfect computer model.... Why are all climate change celebrities are NOT selling their oversized mansions yet? Why they still use private jets? Do they drive electric VW UP or big gas guzzling SUV? Do they eat bugs or exotic meats? There, open your eyes.
@@myself342 that's a bunch of non sequitur. Excel spreadsheet or not, the efficiency of heat pumps beats gas boilers, the data is quite clear, if you disagree, please cite your sources rather than merely intimating and insinuating. Why are rich people doing what they want and being hypocritical... because people are hypocritical, that doesn't alter the efficiency of a technology.
@@LudvigIndestrucable I saw somebody have to put together about 8 kW of solar just to run his heat pump. Doesn’t sound like a plan for most people, when you need another 15 kW of solar to run your house. Where are the savings?
I moved to Ireland in 2018 and bought a new house with a Heat Pump installed. Current building regulations require that houses are highly insulated (ours is A3) and therefore the heat pump technology works really well. Overall I have been very impressed and happy with the low running costs when compared to our former U.K. property (both 2200 sq ft). My only gripe is the inability to access instant extra heat when needed on a rare occasion. We do also have a wood burning stove but have only needed to use this 4 or 5 times in 3 years. An excellent video for others living in poorly insulated houses. I will send this to friends considering heat pumps. I will recommend two careers to my children….installing heat pumps and setting up a claims call centre!
is your heap pump feeding off of a ground source? that would make it work at all times.
Not forgetting the 3rd career; insulating the millions of old houses in the UK!
This is good to hear. I'm building a house at the moment and have fitted underfloor heating throughout to use with heat pumps. Really hoping it's not a massive mistake!
He did say in the video that heat pumps are find for new builds with good insulation. And that it is incredibly expensive to retrofit insulation.
You can get this extra heat with a simple modification : adding a mixing bottle to your installation. Il keeps a little amount of warm water in it, that helps the heat pump to use less power at the start and gaining few extra minutes of heating at the start. Also, think about programming your heat pump to start at a sertain time, then you can have heat when you wake up :)
I run a heat pump in Ottawa and it’s great above -15c. Did build the house with an R35 rating so that helps a lot.
We have this system but it only makes hot water and stores it in a big tank. We heat the house itself with electric radiators. We also have solar panels. It seems efficient and our fuel bills in this 4 bedroom house are cheaper than in our 1 bedroom flat in London.. Possibly using this system to heat the house itself would be more expensive and less effective though?
We lived in the USA for over 25 years, and owned a couple of houses with air-source-heatpump gas-furnace hybrid systems. These work by using the heatpump when it's more efficient than the gas-furnace and via-visa-versa. Also, these are homes heated by forced-air which is common in the USA. It's very unfortunate that the UK housing stock is so poorly insulated, that's probably the first step any home owner should undertake in terms of bang-for-the-buck. With so much rental property in the UK there's not enough insentive for landlords to upgrade insulation., just my opinion. Really enjoyed this down to earth rant and I have to agree there's bound to be some leeches looking to make a killing out of this.
A lot of old houses are difficult to insulate properly as it often leads to damp problems. The air leaks were often by design to varying degrees.
@@simonpeggboard4004 with new insulation Tech. getting cheaper, and more efficient.. all type of house are successfully. My House is from 1950.. Insulated by using a New foam siding... If home owner become more educated about what is available.. A lot of people will find there is a lot of inexpensive Alternative... And Home owners need to make better.
@@jwetPouOu Cheap and efficient doesn't solve the inherent damp problems from the original design. Obviously a complete overhaul can fix any problem, but cost and planning laws often prohibit such actions.
@@simonpeggboard4004 To stop the damp you need bigger gaps under the doors of the rooms you block the air-vents in (& maybe a fanlight). The Air vents (up on the walls) were designed to stop the build up of carbon monoxide back in the day.
American summers are much hotter than British. How would that affect comparisons?
SB: "They've got to bring the price of gas up" - prophetic words from someone before they did exactly that less than 2 years ago.
Gas prices have exploded across Europe - partly due to lack of supply from Russia, as well as an increase in demand around the world. This shortage has increased the price of gas, which is also having a knock-on effect on electricity prices. Russia invaded Ukraine seven months after this video was filmed, though. Prices have gone up, yes - but not solely for the reasons he states.
When he says "They've got to bring the price of gas up", this happens through taxation, not through some shady conspiracy that you don't know about. The price of gas has gone up mainly because our biggest supplier turned out to be a bit of a shit.
Here in the Netherlands, brands such as remeha, offer hybrid heat pumps that work alongside the boiler. It's cheaper than a full heat pump based system (3.5k) and seems to be a good compromise. What's your take on such system?
You are asking a complicated question with vage information and expect an answer in the comments as if that could be done simple and quick. You want my simple answer? Don't do it. You did not understand the video very well. He did explain the trick(electric heating the old fashion way is build in the heatpumps to trick the water temp up when it cannot heatpump it. And you mention it as if is something else when you buy a combined system. Hybrid system is just another name for the trick in the heatpump when it cannot work on outside warmth alone. What I again learn from the video is that you better spend all the money on isolating because when you are good enough isolated to have a heatpump working, then any heat source will use only very little energy. So maybe even the extreme cheap electric radiotor at the wall.
Our experience of a heat pump has brought a significant reduction in gas and electricity consumption, with none of the disadvantages described in the video. Sins April this year, we have used no gas at all - a reduction of 100% on previous years.
What heat pump have you got? How do you heat your hot water? It will be interesting to know how you get on in the winter. Heat pumps work well in the warm weather for obvious reasons.
Heat pumps work well in cold weather as well - although in sub-freezing weather periodic defrosting cycles may be necessary. These cycles shut off the compressor and use a heating coil to melt the built up frost/ice. Then the system returns to the normal heating program. It only got down to about -20 deg C at my sister's house this winter, but her ductless system worked just fine. It is the only heating/cooling source in her 1600 square foot house. In the USA, and many other countries, water is usually heated with resistive electric coils. @@SkillBuilder
Greetings from Scandinavia, or Finland to be more precise. Thanks for pointing out the problem that the UK has with the houses (yes, I've been to the UK and witnessed it first hand..). It's not really a problem with the heat pump technology. I have now had an 8 kW air to water monoblock Fujitsu and radiators for about 5 years. It works just as I calculated. Enough down to about -12 C in my 130 m^2 house, below that I burn wood chips. The pump was about 3,5 ke and about 1 ke for installation (I did what I could, basically it was just the water pipes what the plumber did). It's installed on a separate concrete slab on rubber insulators below my kitchen window, if you are really quiet in the kitchen you can barely hear the fan running. Condensed water is run underground accompanied by a heating cable to avoid freezing. Yearly average temperature around here is about 5 C. Before the pump electricity consumption was about 10 000 kWh/year plus about 20 m^3 of wood chips for the winter. With the pump the electricity is the same, but I use about 0-5 m^3 of chips. That -12 C limit does not mean that the pump stops or anything, but after that the house starts getting colder. But still if it's -20 C during the night and -5 C during the day, the house stays perfectly warm. I didn't do this to save money, just to save chips and my time/labour. So far the pump has been pretty much start and forget and the house is nice and warm for most part of the year. Around -10 C the COP drops to around 2, but around 0 it's in the region of 3 without much optimization. In general I wouldn't jugde the pumps, you just have to know the limits and pick the right product for the right application, this is where most get it wrong. Sure you can't run 65 C water to the radiators at -20 C, but that kind of a house shouldn't have an air to water pump to begin with, an air to air on the other hand would help.
We need 80 C at the radiators LOL
Interesting, sounds like great news. However now burning wood is being damned as a bigger pollutant than that caused by vehicle emissions! In 50 years time we might have saved the planet but we will all be bloody miserable..
I think he was highlighting the effects of negative balance points in each conditioned space. A Heat pump thats exactly sized for the space, may not account for all drafts that affect the balance point. Which will fail in comfort.
@@lifesforliving4929 in here finland we have this called "varaavatakka" . I have electric heating , Nunnauuni woodstove and Nunnauuni freblace. Nunnauuni have made thees wood heating very ecofriedly becoos stone that have been used absodr heat for 24 hours. So i can save big borsion of my electric bill and i am foresmacine worker i can get wood very cheap when i need it.
@@janne47pro Interesting, but here in Britain there is a growing surge of feeling that log burners however efficient they might be and open fires burning wood are major polluters and that they should be banned. I was always told that burning wood was no more harmful than letting the wood naturally rot but now it has been discovered that the particles given off during burning are more harmful. I love open fires, log burners and bonfires but I can see that all of these are in the future going to either be strictly controlled in the UK or stopped altogether. It can help massively if well seasoned wood is burnt, not that that has not been allowed to dry properly but I do not think sufficient controll over that can be achieved to reduce the risk. Also, it seems that people in town and cities are the ones who most object to open fires and log burners because they might live close to someone with either.
Thanks a bunch Roger. Young plumber was pushing the idea of HP and your video of old school truth and common sense has just saved me an enormous amount of grief. Thank you.
We install heat pumps only in well insulated houses. I have a house in Belgium, well insulated, I have a swedish geothermal heating pump and floor heating. A house in the Ardens 250m². 18 b 9m on two floors.Average electricity consumption 7250KW/year. Full installation for the full house was 13 years ago was 28000€ My Solarpanels produce 12000KW/year so I sell 4 to 5000KW back to my energyprovioder. Bottomline: Heating pumps work very well in good conditions. In Belgium we install a lot of heatpumps in combination with a good insulation and a clean boiler (so no legionella) Important is that you work with a company that specializes in heatpumps.
I feel like the UK would be a great place for district heating or heat networks given the type of urban development in most cities. Why aren't heat networks more common? In any case: insulation, insulation, insulation! I was surprised when I lived in the UK to have to keep the radiators at ~80ºC to keep my room comfortable.
Cus developers don't give a shit about anything other than their next quarterly profit. Running costs are 'not their problem' and buyers aren't exactly educated. Nor do agents care unless they can use it as an excuse to charge more money and get higher fees.
Great well educated Rant thanks Roger. I’ve heard nothing good about these pumps over recent years, very expensive and not nearly as warm as the traditional gas boiler.
A friend of mine bought a house with a heat pump and he now has a warm house and lower bills, and a new gas boiler.
That is probably true, but also a part of your heating problems.
@@CrusaderSports250 LOL.
There is a lot of false numbers going round about heat pumps, one of those numbers is the cost... On the radio I keep hearing the figure £10k, that is BS, the minimum you are looking at is £20k and then you will need underfloor, so you are looking much closer to £50k - £90k for a realistic system. One big thing I havn't heard anyone mention yet, is replacement... Your boiler needs replacing every 10-20 years at a cost of £2k ... Your heatpump system won't last any longer, but costs £20k to replace.
@@cuckingfunt9353 You must be referring to ground source heat pumps. My son put in an air source unit that cost about $1300 Cnd. This is a new house, 1000 sq. ft., super insulated. Eastern Ontario winters get pretty cold. His total electric bill for heat, lights, hot water, etc. for January last year was $200. And the house is warm, and in the summer it is cool.
Here in France all new builds get the grants to install underfloor heating, maximum insulation in the property and heat pumps. I think this is the only real way to get the benefits, on new builds and not retro fitting in older property's.
Really depends how efficient and insulated your individual house is and what climate you're in. My 1950s home in Canada could definitely benefit from a small heat pump. More so for air conditioning in the summer and to lessen the load on my boiler in the winter. No need to go big. About $3000 would do nicely. Just don't take the government handout and keep the backup heating for the really cold nights. 🤷♂️
Been living in Paris region of France since 1999. Back around 2005 long before the current trend for heat pumps we were convinced to install one along with a lot of neighbouring by a door to door salesman. Supposedly from EDF (Electricity de France). It had the classic box outside & one defuser on the wall above the kitchen door. It was sold on the basis that this was what shops had over their entrance doors. You remember when you used to go into the supermarket & walk through a wall of hot air. As many houses in France our house was heated with electric radiator. Very dry heat. This because France has 50 plus nuclear power stations to give it an historical energy independence from the bigger oil producing nations. It also Hy we have a very good electric train network including the TGV. Just the heat pump box cost us 10k€. The subversion scam was setup differently. It was a long term loan. So the heat pump was deemed to reduce your electricity consumption but instead of reducing you bill the savings went to paying off a long term loan for the pump. The installation was done by cowboys we us having to make good the mess. The fans became noicey. You had to leave doors open around the house for the heat to circulate. Then when we came to move house a couple of years later the long term loan was still years from paying off. Something that you could hope to pass onto the buyer. So essentially the new owners got what ever small benefit there was to be had from the hear pump & even that was debatable & we continued paying off the loan for nearly 10 years after moving. Any loan is an issue in France as everything is taken into account by the banks when applying for a mortgage. If ever there was a case for be miss sold something this is it. The home where we had it had these electric radiators in every room, a wood burning stove (insert) in the living room & a large immersion heater fir hot water (very common in France). All continued to be used. The house was mid terrace from the 8O's so concrete block walls with polystyrene foam backed plasterboard lined walls & fairly good Rockwall loft insulation. We now live in a 300 plus year old house with meter thick stone walls & no insulation. Gas combi boiler & cast iron radiators doing it all. Gas pipes were being installed everywhere until ver recently. We have popup cowboy firms busily lining or externally cladding people's homes with flammable foam insulation for 1€ basically financed by France's big oil companies like Total to offset there continued solution. Bought a diesel car because we we encouraged to do so that soon won't be able to drive into Paris & Ill be forth nought. All a bit crap all this. People want to do the right thing but it's all a massive scam that could bankrupt ordinary people & leave them with no proper heating. Only going to excelerate now to avoid Russian gas.
@@warrensteel9954 yes this os the best way to utilize heat pumps in very freezing temps -15 Celsius or lower. Have a wood fireplace for those times.
@@Mike-kr5dn unfortunately there's a huge crackdown on wood fireplaces. Between municipalities and insurance companies it's getting cost prohibitive to install or even keep existing ones.
@@davidpike3464 that type of scam is going on right now in the USA but with solar systems, I see multiple advertisements every day for solar installations where you will get money back after the installation but they never mention the long term loan you cannot get out of
Everyone loves fridges (=heat pumps) but some people just seem to be very afraid of heat pumps. We have a heat pump in Austria/Europe and it's not noisy, it works well and it saves us tons of money (especially in conjunction with a small solar system). On top of that it's environmentally friendly, but even without that trait it'd just be the most economical solution for us.
I know heat pumps have more components to fail that a gas powered furnace, and the energy bill savings is only because the politicians have jacked up the gas prices around me. It is all a load of crap what they are doing. Plus many opt for the addition of AC when a heat pump is i stalled, meaning that summer time energy use skyrockets. The subsudies for these god dam schemes is paid for on the backs of the taxpayer/ energy bill payers, and I fucking hate me having to subsidize the rich be it for their solar panels, shiny new Tesla, or their AC / heater system. F them.
Here in NZ we have used heat pumps for somewhat longer than UK. The main difference is we use them to heat air not water in radiators, they also function as air conditioning in summer. The key element is how we use the heatpump. It will quickly raise the air temperature in the house, but this quick heat uses more electricity, the secret to cheap use is to have the pump set at 20c on automatic, not rapid heat or other setting. Obviously one needs to have their house well insulated, roof and below floor, walls too if you can. Double glazing certainly makes a big difference too, but full length curtains and pelmets help a lot. We also have a modern immersion heater, these are far more efficient than the 20+ year old ones in many houses. You may be surprised but much of NZ (South Island, central North Island) have very cold winters. NZ has developed low emission wood burners, and we have one too, used in winter. NZ has developed over many years a very high renewable power grid, mostly hydo, but also geo-thermal and wind, and solar is growing. We built an off the grid house in a mountainous area, (Mackenzie Country) it was off the grid, and had central heating, not heat pump, run off a wood burner. We had a huge amount of our own firewood. The wood burner heated the radiator water, superbly, and hot water came from roof solar panel heaters. but the house was built for the heating system, with double glazing and appropriate insulation. It was very warm even at -15 C and buried in snow. We built for the situation. Back to heatpumps though, using our reliable electric supply we could easily in the urban areas have built a house just to be heated by heat pumps, with hot water coming from an immersion heater or solar hot water. The secret is to get organised and not continue destruction of the environment with oil and gas based energy systems.
But wood burners, even the best, are dangerously polluting and require logging which emits greenhouse gases amongst many other serious problems.
You're cutting down trees and burning them. The exact opposite of what we are told is the right thing to do. You're killing the trees and putting all of their carbon into the atmosphere. And you're bragging about the damage you're causing as if you're doing the right thing. Are you Frank Spencer and is your wife called Betty?
@@RebeccaTurner-ny1xx Wood burners mean people are not reliant on profit mongers , I have my log burner and my solid fuel range cooker and use mostly free scrap wood or fallen branches and it costs me nothing at all to heat, boil a kettle, keep the coffee or tea pot warm, dry my laundry cook and bake in and on. Plus, in winter, I use far less electricity because I don't have to use a tumble dryer, electric cooker, electric kettle, microwave ect. My oil boiler blew up this last April and I can't afford to have a new one put in. Luckily when I had it installed 5 years ago, I kept the range and log burner just in case. Of course, now that I have no central heating, I have no hot water either so washing means carrying pans of hot water through the house. Pretty scary when you're getting on for 70 and badly arthritic hands mean you have no proper grip of things. Oh well, such is life in 21st century, 3rd world, UK.
@@PhyllisGlassup2TheBrim Wood burners are too polluting to use for most people, and of course that pollution doesn't stay in your home. I have sympathy for your situation, as I - like so many in Britain - cannot afford to properly heat even my tiny flat. But wood is not a sustainable or healthy source of energy. Imagine the effects on forests if everyone used them as their sole heating and cooking method. Most of us enjoy the undoubted benefits of electricity, too. The blame is not on those scientists who have shown the enormous harms caused by wood burners (which have been denied by the profit-making wood burner industry - see www.dsawsp.org/secondhand-smoke/wood-burning-industry-tactics) but by our capitalist economy, for which there is, as always, only one solution.
Did you have ducting in your house before you installed the heat pump? I think very few homes in the UK have that, and I'm not sure to what extent it can be retro-fitted. In the US they have lots of it - mostly for cooling, though.
Insulate ceilings walls floors and windows first including draught-proofing. Putting any form of heating into a cold damp leaky box wont reap any sensible result. Common sense prevails.
@@LiLBitsDK He's right. In the UK, the correct spelling is 'draught'.
Is not an option when you rent a cardboard box for couple thousands pounds.
@@goury Here in New Zealand rental properties must comply as of 1 July 2021 for minimum R-Values for insulation and a range of other energy efficiency measures. So, it would seem like many other country to country differences that this is about governmental priorities and policies. This energy policy the UK has seems bizarre that they don't insulate to a minimum standard prior to grants/subsidies for heating.
@@lucasbuchanan6939 cool. If only NZ wasn't located at the very edge of the of the world.
@@lucasbuchanan6939 THIS
In the US, we had a big push for home insulation before heat pumps became popular. Don't forget your double paned windows! I actually miss oil heat, because the temperature from the grate is nice and toasty.
Overground boxes are large and noisy. Unless you've got a big property garden to hide them and the noise
Dutch guy here. I just requested the gas pipe to be taken away. Our house is from 2004 and very well insulated. We heat the room with our airconditioner and a ceramic infrared panel to support it a bit. In the rest of the house we have more of such panels and in the bedroom there is another airconditioner, but we rarely use that for heating. Our heatpump boiler just got installed and works perfectly. Cooking we do on induction and everything is powered with a load of solar panels that also charge our electric car. However: 1) I of course know that the vast majority of houses can't be warmed like this. 2) You need a lot of money or a big mortgage to do what we did. (We have that latter one.) 3) With solar panels some companies now actually let you PAY for your surplus electricity. 4) Electric cars are awesome if your country has a decent infrastructure with enough fastchargers
I wonder if you could hook up Roger to a heating system? Get him worked up on a chilly day and you’ll be toasty in no time 😋
Hahaha!
Hahaha top man
Would be more efficient to just burn him.
Good old Roger he's passionate about what he does, I know exactly where he's coming from.. we are being fed a load of bull shit and herded like sheep, we are not being told the truth by anyone in any matter of concern regarding money and the planet.
This is mostly complaints against older ones and against air to water heat pumps. Modern air source mini splits have a COP of 3-5 and some keep that down to 5F. As hard as it can be insulation is key, upgraded windows and putting it in the attic does a ton.
Just think what all that work would do with a gas boiler then....
it will burn a lot of gas @@factorylad5071, that you can not produce yourself and most countries cant either. But everyone can make electricity..
Also remember the COP of a gas boiler (0.8) vs heat pumps COP of 3-5...Some people just are against progress in any way and form, but they shouldnt come up with conspiracies to pull even more less intelligent people towards them.
@@jokellus3236 the really good gas furnace to air are 95%. Which means even with a low COP is better to burn it in a power plant than to heat your home directly
@@jokellus3236 modern condensing boilers have an efficiency of around 92%
How good do heat pumps work vs my gas boiler when it's -25 to -50c outside (not including windchill) and dark 20 hours a day, like it is here in Canada during the winter? I am hesitant on replacing my old gas pilot burning boiler (80% efficient) for this reason. Or is there room to run them both? I also only have 100 amp service, and all appliances in the home are electric, stove, dryer, including the hot water tank. As well as a goodman 13 seer central AC unit (which of course is switched off for winter)
An air source heat pump will not work efficiently at extremely low temperatures. If it is the only heating source you have, it will switch over to resistance heating, which has a maximum COP of 1.0. A 100 amp service means you have a maximum of 200 - 240 KW of energy available. You would have to add up your maximum loads to see if the service is adequate for the heat pump in resistive heating mode.
ill stick with gas. Sounds far more reliable not worrying about auxiliary heating. May as well stick with one heat source@@buggsy5
Being a qualified heating engineer myself you are spot on. Air source heat pumps = Larger pipe sizes, larger radiators, insulation. Buffer tank. It’s a 20k project. You are spot on.
Not sure about larger pipe size a nd radiators - Insulation definitely . the other argument is just to continue gas / oil because we have poor insulation Huh?? Wait till Vlad decides to cut off your oil
@@Lance-fk1eb Not Putin, the clown Johnson stopping production in the North sea and the licenses for exploration years and years oil and gas still left
Mine cost 10k for full new system
hehe can i have heated socks aswell please
@@Lance-fk1eb ordinary radiators are made for higher water temperature (smaller surfice area) and ordinary pipes have trouble leading the needed amount of not that hot water to give enough effect on to the radiator.. (if you have a high speed on the water there is a annoying sound in the system and i guess it might lead to cavitation, perhaps also to small temperature difference between outgoing water and returning water that will effect the efficiency of the system a lot negatively.)
I have been fitting Heat Pumps for 25 years, and yes they have there limitations. A lot of what has been said in this video is correct, however if designed and selected properly a Heat Pump will work and be efficient. I have had to rectify many systems due to poor design and the end user has been poorly advised. We are fitting loads of Air to Air Heat Pumps ( Air Conditioning units ) that also cool for £1200. In some cases they are the sole heat source, others the existing heating remains and is used as a top up. As with most things there is a middle ground ie not all Heat Pumps are bad and not all are good. People out there need to apply there own scrutiny and common sense when listening to sales people.
sense is no longer common
I have two air to air heat pumps fitted, an older Daikin and a newer Mitsubishi Ecocore. I also have undertile heating fitted throughout most of the house (the electric mat style not water pipes). When I bought the property eleven years ago the Daikin was the sole heat source for the property, and while it heated the air in the lounge and dining room, once you opened the door to the hall to get heat down to the bedrooms the lounge became quite cool. The second problem was that when you opened either of the doors (there are two ranchsliders in the lounge), all the heat seemed to disappear out the door, a problem when you have a cat. The other issues were the noise and dust. Now the undertile heating, rather like a radiator provides background heat that is silent and doesn't leave the house when the door is opened (no to the same extent at least), and heats the whole property. We rarely use the heat pump for heating, probably a couple of times a year only, but regularly run both for cooling, having one in the bedroom is the best thing we have done, and the Ecocore is quiet enough that you can sleep with it on. If I was still in the UK I would be maintaining my gas central heating but would look at adding a heatpump for the A/C element.
I'm sure you are right but as Roger said if your house is super insulated then a heat pump will work fine but we live in the real world and unless we are going to knock down all the older houses and build new ones at a time when the building trade cant keep up with the current demand its not going to happen.
@@martinasher8705 Walls are rarely the issue. As long as they're brick or stone and thick enough they will hold heat reasonably well. Majority of heat losses come from poorly insulated roofs/attics and old doors and windows. If you fix those your heating bills will reduce significantly. Whether it's worth the investment depends on the expected cost return of the initial investment but the prices of electricity/fuel will only go up, the insulation will reduce your bills for years to come.
Hi Stuart, I am doing comparisons of ASHPs to gas boilers in existing homes for my university dissertation, would there be any chance you could complete my questionnaire when its ready? Thanks
I have an air to air HP. In heat mode it works well to about 20F. Below that it progressely shifts to grid heaters as the efficiency of the HP drops off By 10F, it's all grid heater. Where I live AC is a consideration so it woks well for that. Natural gas would still be cheaper though. Liquid propane would probably be more expensive most years.
I have been in the trade for over 20 years, I refuse to fit these systems, I will not put my name to one of these systems, I will not allow my customers to be ripped off they are a disgrace.
The other thing not mentioned is that, rather like the storage heaters of old, they need to be on in anticipation all the time. My daughter has one and for the house to be warm when she gets home from work it is on all day heating an empty house. This means also trying to predict the weather and wasting electricity. There’s a long time lag from cold so not efficient in that respect. The electricity consumption is frightening.
Here in Texas where the climate in winter is mild; the electric utilities hit us with very high monthly bills ( U$A 300 to 400 for a 3 bedroom 2 bath home); 1500 sq. ft.
I was thinking they sound a bit like the old storage heating system
And my electricity provider just increased my price per kWh by 33%, despite them buying all of their electricity from solar+wind+nuclear. And when the govt sees the loss of tax revenue from gasoline and diesel gallons dwindling, how will they recoup it from motorists in vehicles that are powered by electricity...? Hmmm, let me think...
@@hunchanchoc8418 The rats will figure another way. Even electric cars need to p
@@hunchanchoc8418 We're at their mercy!
I use my two laptops 💻 from 2008 to warm my room. The old pentium processor gets reds hot and the fans goes crazy! Best heat ever!
Use new laptops, mine some crypto. Seriously though, I use some good old 2070's to heat my country house and it is cheaper than a heat pump this way because the price is negative. You can't beat that with anything. Initial cost is considerably higher though.
@@goury lol! Someone has just died in Thailand when laptop blew on their face!
@@desidesigning don't put your face too close to a laptop, it's bad for your health even if it doesn't explode.
Sadly soon when the wind don’t blow and we’ve given up gas your pc goes off! We are going to be sat in the dark, shivering, and cooking quorn over a vegan candle🤣🤣 Idiots have taken control.
@@steveb1856 Idiots are those who oppose nuclear power plants, including you
Heat pumps are very good here in Australia where the climate is not cold - pretty much ever. We never see snow. The heat pump works very well as the "refrigerator" part of a reverse cycle aircon environment. I wouldn't ever imagine that they're efficient at warming cold houses in cold weather however.
@@khl6367you can buy cold climate models which can work down to -20c now. If there's ice buildup it will defrost itself.
I just had another combi installed. We only use around 0.4 unit of gas a day in winter (electric is 6 units a day winter or summer) so... Should be good for another 10-15 years and hopefully by then things will have settled down a bit. Hmmm. Interestingly the company that fitted it are known primarily for fitting heatpumps and underfloor heating but they have just got in two guys specifically to do combi installs. Seems there is a surge in demand and they want a piece of it.
Lots of people are unaware a heatpump system requires bigger pipes and bigger radiators so installation costs will be much higher than the heat exchanger/pump unit alone. Like most government initiatives (all parties), this has been thought through in a very half baked way
Massive oversize radiators running cool.
Or something reasonable like underfloor heating.
@@jankoodziej877 Yes - UFH is the best option. But a lot of places can't have UFH.
@@stakkerhmnd yeah, in general it only makes sense in new buildings, designed with that in mind.
@@jankoodziej877 Seen a lot of UFH retro-fits - some were done well and some were a bad joke. As you say, new buildings makes sense. The Nordics designed their buildings properly 50 years ago for their environments so these systems aren't really suitable for UK market.
This man is spilling facts. Here is my situation: I have geo-thermal system installed, not talking about recently made popular heat pumps, we are talking about best of the best environment friendly option. The house size is 5,000 Sq.ft. I live in southern B.C, Canada (Near Vancouver), In my area cost per unit of electricity is $0.14. My bill per two months cycle is around $1,200 from December to February. That is $600/month. I switched to natural gas last year. I also got rid of my eclectic boiler and now its on demand natural gas hot water, now my natural gas bill in harsh winter was $210/month and my Electricity went to $125/month. Now my new combined monthly bill is $335. Those who question this video are doomed. I gave you my story, i 1000% agree with this gentleman.
Many birds currently come to towns in winter to enjoy the warmth given off by all the houses. Once we all have heat pumps taking heat OUT of the outside air and pumping it into the houses, and once everyone has upgraded their insulation (because heat pumps don't deliver as much heat as burning a fuel) to make it even harder for the heat we have extracted from the outside air to leak back out into the outside air, the birds will literally have to move AWAY from towns over the winter to avoid the intense chilling action of all those heat pumps. Humans too will find the outdoor air particularly cold when they go out. Water-source heat pumps, which take their heat from rivers and lakes, will make those water sources colder and therefore harder for aquatic life. Ground-source heat pumps will make the ground colder, the effects of which I don't know but it might cause difficulties with the foundations of houses. Predicting the exact temperature drop in air, water and ground will be next to impossible, but in towns and cities the sheer concentration of thousands or millions of heat pumps stealing heat from the exterior is surely going to make a noticeable difference. Usually when governments try to push entire populations to make a sudden substantial change, some of the scientific details are overlooked, bad decisions are made, and, in order to enforce them, subsidies are paid to companies and consumers, prompting them to buy something in order to get the subsidy, even though the product's benefits are unconvincing; and usually ten years later we find ourselves repenting.
Most houses in sweden uses geothermal heatpumps, we drill a hole 500feet down in the earth and use the heatexchange in the hole. They are very effective but the drilling and installtion cost is much higher than ordinary air to air heat pumps.
Was ready to type in a rant about how BS this video was, but then I checked my scandinavian insulated house privileges. You are correct, they work wonders for me, even in -20. And now in the summer I get a cool +20 inside, while it is +30 outside. Heatpumps are highly recommended.
Enjoyed your video Roger. It comes as no surprise to me the government are cocking up yet another initiative. Love the idea of the heated jackets but I’ve been trying to find one that gives off a decent amount of heat and they don’t seem to exist. Ironically, much like the heat pumps! 🙂
2nd question. I live on the coast. Everything metal rusts rapidly. I buy stuff for the garden like bird feeders and metal tables. Even if it's painted it typically lasts 1 to 2 years before rust destroys it due to salt content. How long would a metal enclosure of a heat pump last before it's a complete eye sore. The neighbours argument won't matter if anyone has them. It'll be loud with all of them at once in a terrace! Flats might have to share them and pay as a group?
Manufactuterers actually make a special model for coastal environments which is an admission that the standard units aren't up to it.
@@SkillBuilder presumably would need plastic, titanium or lets be safe and say gold rather than steel components. Let me guess. Twice the price.
@@paultasker7788You're asking for a salt/rust resistant model because YOU chose to live by the coast. Sooooooo, yea, it's going to cost more big man.
Great video. I do have transitioned into heat pump, but, I also do have a greatly insulated House, with floor heating, and photovoltaic that produces all the free energy I need to generate the heat I want. Just this morning a friend of mine was telling me he also was intending to change from gas to heat pump. I showed him that this tecnology was unsuitable for his case and recommended him to install a wood pellet stove in the living room to give a cheap push and reduce expensive gas consumption. Each technology to each reality!!
From where are you and how much KWH is your power photovoltaic system?
@@HD2You north Spain. 7.5Kwhp
@@manuelgarciabarbero1872 how much area (square meters) did you used for your setup?
@@HD2You around 50
Think carefully about pellet stove in the living area. They are very noisy - fan on all the time and pellet being fed constantly to the burner. You will be turning up your tv vol. for sure. Also maintenance issues are a headache. Personal experience here in USA.
Roger you have got it in one, I have been involved with gas and oil heating for the last 45 years and this technology is very much up to date and well developed ! Heat pumps will be a long time developing the high temperatures required for home heating.
Manufacture bluff heat pump will cost you more compress last about 7 to 9 years condenser fan 7 years service every gas charging if leak during very cold weather you need additional heater some are all ready fitted. Climate change is a part of political games
@@leod-sigefast I've got one. Absolutely hopeless for the British climate. They can work quite well where the temperatures rarely go below 10C. In a cold British winter they are pathetic. They absolutely can't be retrofitted to existing heating systems. Radiators need to be 3x as big.
@@bitdropout We use them in Colorado, where it frequently goes below whatever 10C is. ;) This video is based on wildly outdated info.
@@bitdropout We Swedes have a very tall country, where Scania has a climate not very different from the British; and also Norrbotten, with a climate very, very, different from yours. Fortunately you don't live there in your British house, even if I smile at the very thought... By the way, heat pumps function all over Sweden. That's because we are a rather cold, but technically gifted people, with quite a lot of common sense, which make us reject BS talk very fast.
@@n.g.h.calmarena7013 I thought that in Sweden Ground source heat pumps with bore holes are usually used not air source? Your houses are also very thermally efficient unlike houses in the UK. Heatpumps require a constant temperature to work effectively which is why a 200m deep borehole works. The air temperature in the UK varies vastly throughout the day this causes mayhem with the control strategy of an air source heat pump. I have a great respect for Sweden and it's forward thinking regarding climate change. On a different note, for such a small country, you produce some of world's best ice hockey players🏒
Air tightness barrier, possibly mechanical ventilation and lots of insulation is a great solution. You can heat your home with some small electric heater very very easily. An electric combi is also very very good solution an they should be incentive as a direct replacement to your gas boiler. Just brilliant.
You are not very bright if everyones on electricity the price sky rockets and you will auddenly find yourself a feudal peasant, if your not one already.
Cold Climate Heat Pumps (CCHP) make for great air conditioners and assistive heating devices. I say assistive as the deficiency decreases as the temperatures drop below freezing. Here in southern Ontario, Canada one would be daft to get rid of their natural gas furnace and depend solely on a CCHP. Big consideration here is that we don't depend on a foreign supply of natural gas.
The heat pump will be at least twice as efficient as the natural gas central heating. It all depends on the costs you are charged for natural gas and electricity. If I recall correctly, natural gas furnaces have a COP of about 0.8, which is lower than resistive heating.
Top rant Roger. But please base your rant on the correct numbers. A COP of 1 or 2 is very very bad (did I say that's is very bad COP). You might get a COP of 1 at -20C. The average COP (or better Seasonal COP (SCOP), is around 3.4 to 4. So even at 0C, the COP of a good heat pump is > 3. Furthermore you are talking about Air-Water heat pumps. You forgot (the more expensive) Water-Water heatpump where the COP is quite stable because the energie is taken from the earth which is quite stable, even is it is < -10C. The heat pump is certainly not a new technologie, it might be new technologie for the UK and is perfectly capable of heating a normally build house. Heat pumps rely on low temp radiators or floor heating and are doing a great job. But you need to understand how it works. A heat pump is the last thing you install in your house, after you got rid of the draft and the uninsulated floor, walls and most important the roof. Your rant should be about the uninformed installer (including yourself I'm afraid). Please get your fact right. p.s. By telling your audience that some people may say things work perfectly, but those are exceptions, you stop any good discussion before it even started, a bad idea.
What about the refrigerant gases, such as chlorofluorocarbons (CFCs) damage the ozone layer, while others are extremely potent greenhouse gases. In fact, one kilogram of the refrigerant R410a has the same greenhouse impact as two tonnes of carbon dioxide, which is the equivalent of running your car for six months. No one talks about that.
@@coyote5735 Do you often release the refrigerant from the HP or AC systems? You don't.
@@janosvarga9997 No but they do leak over time all of them, think of the cumulative effect. Not so environmentally friendly after all.
@@coyote5735 classic "what if" chat.
Disconcerting that you've got 19 upvotes so far. Quite a few people have clearly bought the hype, and are in for a nasty shock when they go ahead and install a heat pump. Air source heat pumps are expensive as it is, ground source heat pumps cost even more, and will be way out of most people's price range. Most UK housing stock is too draughty for heat pumps to work properly. Our houses actually have air bricks built into them to let outside air in and ensure there's adequate ventilation. Houses designed for heat pumps are completely draught proofed and don't have any built in ventilation, instead they use something called MVHR (mechanical ventilation with heat recovery) to exchange interior and external air without much heat loss. It's not feasible to draught proof existing housing stock to the level required for heat pumps to work efficiently. That's why people who have them installed are complaining of cold houses and large electricity bills. The COP of a heat pump depends on the outside temperature. Their COP drops substantially below 0C, and below about -10C most of them shut off altogether and switch to resistive heating (COP of 1, the heat you get out is the same as the electricity you put in). When it's colder you also need more heat of course, so what this means is that the electricity demand of these things spikes dramatically in cold weather. By what could easily be a factor of 10. Very cold weather doesn't happen that often in the UK so it might not seem like that big a deal, but if millions of households have converted to these things it's going to crash the grid. We have very little spare generating capacity as it is, there quite simply isn't enough spare capacity to support millions of air source heat pumps (especially if their demand climbs to 10x normal due to very cold weather). It'll be like the blackouts in Texas, except a regular occurrence every time there's cold weather. Vulnerable people will die, and housing stock will be ruined by pipe bursts. It's an insane policy, especially since most of our electricity is generated from gas with an efficiency of only about 50 percent, when modern gas boilers have an efficiency greater than 90 percent.
First of all I would like to see these pumps installed in all the homes of government ministers, MPs and government offices. When they have been tested for say 5 years and they are all happy, then perhaps we could fit them in our houses. We should not be made Guinea pigs for environmental experiments that could cost households a fortune. Also maintenance of these systems is very expensive, as you have to hire a specialist HVAC engineer to service them.
Its a money making scam. The government says it will remove the levy on electricity, once you are reliant on electricity for everything, they will add that levy on again
You have been guinea pigs for at least 40 years while the fossil fuel industry KNEW we would have global warming, and that the consequences would be grave. You have been lied to year after year after year while politicians protected the fossil fuel industry and told us that we were fear mongering. You are stupid enough to ask for politicians to have them for 5 years before you would consider fitting a heat pump, while you disregard the decades of use all over the world, where millions of homes use heat pumps that actually work.
Great idea.
@@Traitorman.14.3 But not fitted in the UK. Also you are basing your beliefs on a false presentation of science, which I believe in strongly. Question; What melted the Ice Ages before any industrialisation? How is it that the Sahara used to be covered by trees? How is it that remains of tropical plants can be found in the UK? The Earth is a volatile entity that has changed and is always changing, why do we think the natural changes have stopped just for our convenience? There is no immediate climate crisis, it is a political and media led religious crusade. We should insulate, insulate, insulate, then fit the best and most suitable heating system for our building, whatever it is. If anyone thinks that all the world - especially China is going to follow all this ‘save the planet’ stuff, then I feel sorry for them!
@@petercollins7848 And how is it that you cannot fathom the dire problems ahead? Haven’t you seen the graphs? Haven’t you noticed the speed of the increase? The accelleration? Is it so difficult to understand that Sahara didn’t just happen overnight but over thousands of years , but the vast problems we are facing now happened during the last few decades?
They are going hard to install heat pumps in New York. How much heat do you absorb when the outside air temperature is -18 degrees C or lower in the middle of a New York winter? I asked a HVAC mechanic today about how this is supposed to work when you have a problem in the middle of winter. With an oil furnace it does not take too much skill to change a nozzle or filter. A few spanners and the job is done. They told me that they had to call technical support sometimes to repair these heat pumps. One time he was on hold for 6 hours trying to get information. Heated jackets remind me of Jimmy Carter!
Most HVAC mechanics I know don't have a clue about relative costs or equipment efficiency. Many don't even know what the COP rating means - they just install the equipment where they are told to install it - or use a rote procedure to do any repairs. With a gas furnace, you do not need all the power that an oil fired furnace requires for its injector pump. If you had to, you could run a gas fired HVAC system off your car battery by running the car for 10 - 15 minutes every hour or two.
Two years since this video... here in Canadastan the 'heat pump' madness is ramping up full speed ahead.
They stink..
Truden the clown is handing out government grants and he's never even owned one.
It's a dumb idea in Canada where we have huge amounts of concentratee heating fuels like oil, natural gas and wood. That makes more sense than trying to suck heat out of a diffuse source like minus 20 air.
The best way to heat a house using electricity is an air to air heat pump, from the likes of panasonic, floor and wall mounted indoor units, they chuck out serious heat, and can easily heat an old draughty house no problem, and are extremely efficiant, 5 to 1. The best combo, is to have air to air heating, with a separate air to water heatpump heating only your hot water cylinder using a heatpump designed for just that, from the likes of cool energy, that heats the tank up to 60 degrees with no need for a booster element, an then switches off untill the tank temp falls below a set threshold it switches on. Ive been running this system for 7 years now, and its really cheap to run, and cheap and quick to install with zero maintenance, This combined with a few cheap roof mounted grid tie microinverter solar panels is the holy grail, every home should be changing over to this. Using air to water in a retrofit to heat an old house is as roger said a very bad idea. There is really really poor understanding of heat pumps in this country,
Actually this is not the best way to heat a house. The best way is with a geothermal heat pump. Way better efficiency.
@@volf4o how much does geo cost to install in your area? For me, a 12.6KW air-air system for nordic conditions cost $3400 including install, before any incentives (ending up at $2300 iirc) If i were to dig the hole myself, i could have gotten 13KW geo for $14k (12k after incentives) Even ignoring what i did (had $15k, bought air-air and spent rest on solar panels), i'd never recoup that cost in the efficiency difference between the two Might be different in climates where air-air meets large hurldes (like coastal regions where the salt corrodes them) but this is my experience
In the USA and in Canada we have a lot of air conditioners that are only used about 2 months of the year the thing that's needed is for laws banning non reversing air conditioners turning them into heat pumps to heat and cool the house and we need air conditioning technicians who are willing to change over the old one's but no they'd only make 500 dollars more or less for the conversion instead of the over a thousand they make on commission on a new one plus the cost of removing the old one and the installation of the new one well over 2 grand for an hour or two of labor my ac unit probably has 4 months at the most of run time so I'd love to upgrade it love it even more I'f i could add water sourced heating and cooling to it as we have all the heat and cooling we need 15 feet below our feet but I'm not able to find someone to upgrade my old unit
Heatpumps for tap water makes no sense. I'd rather use a small pellet burner for that.
@@volf4o haha, no the best way is to live in the Caribbean
I'm a refrigeration engineer. You never mentioned repair costs. Compressors fail. Running at high pressure and temperature, kiss goodbye 3k
I replace compressors on heat pumps all day long. An 11k machines compressor cost £1000 and an 8kw is £800. On a r290 machine the gas is cheap and you can get 70c flow temps but you should only need 60c max
Like boilers have a great reputation for reliability.
@@ungrim97 some boilers do have excellent reliability. Of course you can choose cheap crap, but if you stick to Vaillant, Worcester Bosch or Viesmann, you can expect many years of reliable service with no hassles.
@@ibleedswede 70 deg C flow at what COP?
@@flatfoot only 1.2 COP @ 75 but it can do it cheaper than an immersion if you insist on a legionella cycle once a week for an hour. The rest of the time you can do DHW at 52 c for a good balance of cop verses usability. A usual family empties there stored hot water at least once a day so legionella protection would be provided by that alone. People always find objections to new technologies and standards. People objected to having to wear seatbelts at one time. I'm not sure if Roger is a climate change denier or a big oil shill but heat pumps in one form or another are the future for domestic heating and most of the obstacles that exist for retrofit to old houses will be overcome.
@SkillBuilder Thank you for confirming what I all along was considering obvious. We've had one installed in our recreational house which was already heated with electrical radiators. From the very start I considered it madness to believe that in any way would be cheaper that the radiators to have the heat emitted from a single spot under the ceiling using a fan to blow the heated air down - and through closed doors would sufficiently heat all the far corners. But nobody would listen to me. And then there is the noise !! One of of the primary qualities of spending time there was listening to the silence - now there is constantly a noise like a trucks outside passing the house. They could at least have put the fan outside on posts in the ground - instead of hanging it on the outside wall making sure that noise through the structure would resonance to every corner of the house
I live in Florida and my entire home heating is provided by a heat pump. There are no "gas boilers" here (some people, very few, have gas forced air heat). I live in a modern home, well insulated with modern windows and doors. Most days of the year I do not need heat at all. Even in the winter, we run our AC on more days than we run our heat. Most winter days we don't need either heat or AC. The same system we use for AC is used for heat, and we ALL have AC. Works great! To be honest, if my home _had no heat at all,_ it would be nothing I couldn't live with a few hours of a few days per year. How well it works in your climate...🤷♂
Shall we all move to Florida
@@SkillBuilder Seems like most of the United States is. I can't blame them. It's paradise. Not only is my cooling system also my heating system, my summer clothes are also my winter clothes. 😜 If you need an AC system AND the AC system can provide ALL your heating needs, with nothing more than a reversing valve and a proper thermostat, heat pumps are perfect! If the climate you live in is not ideal for a heat pump, that is not a flaw in the heat pump.
I've had a heat pump for five years and it's been a disaster from day one. It is not cheaper and it has repeatedly broken down, leaving me without heat or hot water for weeks while the engineers try to figure out if it's the water pressure, the frequency signal from the thermostat to the pump, the pump itself or a leak in the pipes. Absolute nightmare!
Clearly you bought a rubbish make. Would it be a British effort from a company with no experience.
@@rogerphelps9939 It's Panasonic. Is Panasonic a rubbish make? I don't know but their heat pump is! I sit here without heat or hot water yet again. This time they think it's the filter, the system needs to be flushed, which will take a full day. Lucky me, eh?
I replaced my oil based heating with electric radiators which are vintage styled steel ones looking like 1930s ones . They were not exactly cheap ..but they are very efficient and hold the heat for a long time .4 cost me about £3000. They reach a very steady heat and retain heat for ages after they are turned off as well.. They can have a central thermostat but I simply have an on /off switch for each one ...and I do heat one room at a time for economy . Theres no point in running heating in a bathroom all day if you are not in there but wait until you intend to take a bath ! The kitchen warms up quickly with the oven on as well ..but I will run the rads in these rooms when it has really cold snap. The upstairs bedrooms are only used for sleep and I can put an electric heater on for 5 minutes if its very cold before bed and with an electric blanket or HW bottle you are set come bedtime.(It is also healthier for you to not sleep in such dried out atmospheres all the time which also encourage bugs to breed and moths to also breed among your woollens ) I wear more clothes indoors as well ..not sitting around in T shirts in Winter..but wearing woollens and long johns ... after all I live in Scotland..on the Isle of Arran . My bills havent been so high . If people want to reduce expenses its up to them to think practically.
I live in the Sonoran desert in Southern California. Today, Sept 4, the outside temperature was 109F ( 42.78 Celsius) The coolest it gets here in 35F( 1.57C) in the winter. Funny reading your post. I would probably be so cold living there in Scotland and I've spent most of my adult life living Miami, and now in Palm Springs, Ca. It got 120F(48.9 Celsius) here last year. Wow.
@@garydmercer We'd find your temperatures just as jarring, but you get used to it. I'm Scottish and was in Melbourne when they had the 42-43C heatwave and I didn't find it too uncomfortable (OTOH, the house I was staying in didn't have aircon, so sleeping was really unpleasant!) Most of the central belt & large population centres (Glasgow, Edinburgh etc.) don't tend to go below zero for sustained periods, so it's not far off your lowest temperature. The worst we get tends to be around freezing, with a month or two of single-digit temperatures (positive and negative). It's definitely a lot colder in the north (sometimes see double digit negative C temperatures in Aberdeenshire & the highlands), but for most areas it's honestly not that bad.
As an engineer I am hugely skeptical of air source heat pumps. That said, my MIL has a heat pump, no gas, and solar PV, and gets a negative electricity bill even in mid winter.
Just wondering if Heat pump design has evolved much since this video was made, would it be worth revisiting the subject?
Thanks for that eye opening presentation Roger. I live in an old property with solid brick walls but 40 years ago I installed dry wall lining on all exterior walls, long before government started to throw money at promoting energy saving. I had my first condensing boiler installed 5 years ago and it has warmed my home and not cost an arm and a leg to run. I hope we can continue with gas boilers for a long time to come and you are the right person to raise this issue at national level. You will have massive support. Bravo!
Are electric boilers an option?