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Fired for a quote from It's always sunny in Philadelphia. haha.
@dushku112 жыл бұрын
This is seriously messed up. Torres quoted the joke from "It's always Sunny in Philadelphia," and basically Dana's real message (whether he knows it or not) is that if you make a potentially offensive joke (publicly) that Dana doesn't *get*, you can get canned. THAT is unacceptable, and, because Dana IS much more concerned with PR than he claims to be, he should make a point of at least *appearing* to be impartial and objective--while also being sensitive to the importance of publicity.
@00MetaHunter0012 жыл бұрын
Crazy how things have changed within 10 years, huh.
@ligmaballs0911 Жыл бұрын
@@ligmaballs0911 it is crazy. Now people can call others terrorists and dana doesn't give a fuck.
@derpdyl Жыл бұрын
I missed something what was said? whats the link?
@ghostrid312 жыл бұрын
I do however think that Torres was fired due to not being as important to the company as Forrest or Rashad. Rashad, whether you like or hate him he sells fights. Forrest helped put the UFC on the mainstream level. Unfortunately Torres was a champion in WEC at a time when only the hardcore fans were paying any attention. Not many people probably would buy a $55 PPV to watch him. Therefore he was the easiest guy to get rid of without losing much.
@CrazyMammaJamma12 жыл бұрын
@JulioLeezy What incident are you referencing?
@GaeasBlessing12 жыл бұрын
@xInfamousAvengerx what was Forrest Griffins Comment ?
@tooktoomuchtoomuch12 жыл бұрын
No matter what, no matter what the circumstances are, no fighter should be informed that he is cut through a tweet, email, etc. At the very least, they should be informed via a phone call.
@64wy4x8s11 жыл бұрын
@lastrosenfeld did you watch the interview?
@MrQueerification12 жыл бұрын
I work for a man like Dana. Straightforward, understanding, and unwavering in his pursuit of good business. Makes it hard to argue against his direction.
@spddracer11 жыл бұрын
@vyanez08 is that really the best you could come up with?
@SpiritKurama12 жыл бұрын
@Tommy9834 @Tommy9834 "Torres made this deal to work for UFC." Can you verify that his "deal" included clauses pertaining to acceptable speech while not involved in an official work capacity? All indications point to the fact that this was a non-work related tweet during a non-work related period. Companies should be careful not to use their economic power over people’s livelihoods to control the social behavior of U.S. citizens. We should be careful not to let it happen.
@thisisaguy12 жыл бұрын
the fucked up thing is he didnt even hear his side of the story but he heard griffin and evans its just unfair
@MrFreshxKicks12 жыл бұрын
ok so when i fighter says im going to kill you in the ring, thats fine, but when you joke aboput rape all of the sudden is controversial because of the rape victims? what about the victims of murder. so much bs.
@rwasta700710 жыл бұрын
No one really says they're going to kill each other in the " octagon" and even if they do , they are saying to each other in the heat f the moment. What Miguel Torres said was just plain stupid and was making a joke about rape on a public forum where everyone can see. Plus the joke seemed like Miguel was promoting rape through what he said. In the real world it doesnt matter where you work, if you are caught tweetng shit like that you will get punished for it.
@kevinparamakurunathan288210 жыл бұрын
I get wat ur saying bro But in the world we live is like that Trust me i know what ur saying But its not just the ufc trust
@kevinparamakurunathan288210 жыл бұрын
a joke is a joke, you shouldnt limit peoples freedom of expression. if rape jokes aren't aloud then no jokes that might "offend" should be aloud either. and we all know there is always someone offended by something in this victim like culture.
@rwasta70077 жыл бұрын
@millertimez06 many other fighters have done pretty much the same exact thing. as dana said forrest and rashad, im sure there are more. wasnt it even a quote from show? either way it was too much to release him, hence why miguel is back.
@nyphon12 жыл бұрын
what was the tweet any way?
@xxcage22312 жыл бұрын
@spaniardmale77 "Twitter was set up for their UFC fighters." Somehow, I think this isn't accurate. Torres is still using his twitter account. I just checked it and he's been using it a lot since the time of his firing. If his twitter account were a UFC account, why would he still have personal access to it to make personal tweets? There is zero indication that the account was setup for the promotion of Zuffa or Zuffa owned companies.
@thisisaguy12 жыл бұрын
@Tommy9834 "Have you ever worked for a company that requires you to wear a uniform?" We are not talking about on the job. My questions are specifically related to non-work, personal time. At no point has it been shown that Torres was working at the time of this tweet. If the tweet was made on personal time then it is protected free speech. This is not about uniforms at work or work place speech. This is private time. Should companies have rights above employee's during off duty time?
@thisisaguy12 жыл бұрын
funny how dana "called forrest" and then "got after rashad" BUT he didnt get ahold of torres just fired him
@blade8333612 жыл бұрын
@Tommy9834 As for not work-related, it actually doesn't matter. A soldier can get into serious trouble for showing up in uniform to a political rally, even if he does it on his off time, cause he's still representing his organization. (From the UCMJ), so Torres is indeed always representing UFC so he has to consider that, and it's not violating his rights cause he chose to always represent UFC by signing the UFC contract.
@Tommy983412 жыл бұрын
No they haven't. But you have to remember Ben when you are a fighter or somebody that is a public figure you have to be a little bit smarter what you say and do.
@justrob864810 жыл бұрын
how dare he say "we all make mistakes" and then stick by his decision to go as far as straight out cut torres, how contradictory.
@VikramT712 жыл бұрын
@begood20000 Agreed,and that is EXACTLY what I was scared of when I heard they signed that deal.He's advancing MMA and the expanding the UFC,but ironically it may be to the DETRIMENT of MMA and the UFC.
@chibblywubbly12 жыл бұрын
Torres got fired because Dana White was confronted about it and was embarrassed. It doesn't matter what he said, it's that Dana White's megalomania was challenged.
@Iaintrussian12 жыл бұрын
@thisisaguy To answer your question, yes IF the employee agrees to give that right up. You may not notice this but we give up rights everyday. When we buy something, we're giving up our right of possession of our money in exchange for someone else's right for their possession. If you sign a contract that says you will give up your right to say certain things, PUBLICLY, even on your free time, then the company gives you a right to work for them. Torres made this deal to work for UFC.
@Tommy983412 жыл бұрын
@Tommy9834 That being said, I can agree with justifying Forrest's justification, and can understand why he wasn't fired, or gotten some type of punishment.
@Tommy983412 жыл бұрын
@dramatish Griffen's justification, I can accept, Rashad's not really. That being said, I don't think Rashad should be fired, but my point is, neither should Torres. What Torres said was NOT THAT BIG OF A DEAL.
@Tommy983412 жыл бұрын
@Tommy9834 "the UFC requires their fighters to have a twitter account" Can you verify this? Torres is still using his twitter account. He opened the account in 2009. The vast majority of his tweets are personal or non UFC/Zuffa related. Unless he is under contract to use twitter as a work tool then he is under no obligation to the UFC. The UFC does not own twitter or his personal account. I still wonder why so many defend a company for firing an employee over protected free speech.
@thisisaguy12 жыл бұрын
What did forrest and rashad say ??
@dmlisa198712 жыл бұрын
@Tommy9834 "Torres is indeed always representing UFC" Does it say this anywhere in his contract? Remember that Torres does not have an implied contract such as an "at-will" employee. He is a contracted employee. Do you know what his contract says?
@thisisaguy12 жыл бұрын
This was a great interwiev Ariel, it's really a blessing to have such a talented reporter to cover mma. You might love or hate Danas stance regarding everything that has happened, but you cannot disregard the fact that he is honest and can explain the decisions that he has made, personally I think it is pretty amazing that the president of such a big company as the UFC speaks to everyone in such a way and I hope that we will continue to see that from the UFC.
@TheOneZatoichi12 жыл бұрын
He’s not really a good reporter/interviewer, he just somehow is Able to as these questions and get away with them
@Luis-ym6fq Жыл бұрын
He didn't get fired he fought at UFC 145 on April 21,2012.
@DomWarfield12 жыл бұрын
@Tommy9834 for ufc its big deal if you already had 2 incidents prior to that
@dramatish12 жыл бұрын
i completely agree I don't no how people don't see this
@howiboy11 жыл бұрын
@CrazyMammaJamma it does from a businessman's (Dana White) POV. Rampage sells tons of fights so it's easier to look the other way. I'm not saying I am all for it, just that this decision was about business and saving face in my opinion and not on morals. He made the popular decision and not necessarily the right one.
@CrazyMammaJamma12 жыл бұрын
@thisisaguy Speech is still free. If the UFC was a government organization, then it be a big deal to fire someone cause they said something, but UFC as a private organization can have its own set of standards and regulations, and if a fighter don't like it, then they don't have to work for them. It's no different then any other job.
@Tommy983412 жыл бұрын
@moiseslima true. would he do the same if it were gsp?
@fomiz12 жыл бұрын
The fact that he fired Torres doesn't piss me off. A company can have it's own standard and regulations. It's not infringing on anyone's 1st Amendment rights, cause anyone can still say what you want. The consequences follows, whatever. What pisses me off, is the double standard. He can pretty up the reason why Rashad said what he said, but that is not a real justification. So either fire both Rashad and Torres, or keep both.
@Tommy983412 жыл бұрын
@thisisaguy "Was he? When is he not representing the UFC? When is his speech his own? Where is the distinction?" I was actually asking you. But remember, the UFC requires their fighters to have a twitter account now, so you can argue that the account Torres was using is like using a company given cellphone of laptop.
@Tommy983412 жыл бұрын
@bones420usa That being said then, why not punish Rashad? That fact that emotions was the cause of him saying that (Assuming that;s even true) doesn't justify anything, so why not apply that same standard you posted on him?
@Tommy983412 жыл бұрын
I don't watch the show, but tons of websites are saying its from some episode from season 4. Check it out and reply back with what you find out.
@junfatzoid12 жыл бұрын
This is the way I see it: Dana got suprised during the interview where he was informared about thw tweet. For a short moment he didnt know what to respond to the interviewer, an unusual and very uncomfortable situation for Dana. As a result he got very angry and, after not recieving a proper explanation, decided to simply fire him. Now, Dana never mentioned that there will be no comeback für Miguel, and personally I believe, after a thorough apology, Miguel will be back. At least I hope so!
@ZwiebelkuchnEU12 жыл бұрын
also dont forget abour Frank Mir. Remember when he said he wanted to kill brock lesnar inside the octagon? not only that he said he wanted to be the FIRST person to kill someone in a UFC fight.
@Gus58912 жыл бұрын
@endwelfare No. He did the right thing by cutting Daley. Declaring that Paul will never fight in the UFC again is a bit extreme though.
@RWright200612 жыл бұрын
10 years later* Dana - isn’t he fuc*in awesome?!
@kobe3fann24 Жыл бұрын
Is Dana going soft? Seriously, I never thought I would see the UFC go PC.
@JackPantz12 жыл бұрын
I don't think he should have been suspended, but I do respect Dana White's choice. I think Miguel will be back, and he will be a better business man and fighter for it. He just has to play the game a little more savy like.
@zencapopoca12 жыл бұрын
I didn't know MMAfighting had an iphone app. Just downloaded it, its WAYYY better than the MMA torch app.
@79camperspecial12 жыл бұрын
You're silly. Dana has to stand between the fighters, he said it himself in an interview with Ariel Helwani following Bigfoot and Overeem "You think I wanna stand between those two guys knowing one of them could throw a punch at each other and I couldn't do anything about it? I'm forced to!"
@Devorantem11 жыл бұрын
MORAL: Think before you click.
@ishnookie12 жыл бұрын
The UFC wouldn't be anywhere without Dana White. He can put his face on the UFC logo if he wanted, we should appreciate him because I couldn't stand watching another Boxing match because there was nothing else.
@1ceYourPimpHand11 жыл бұрын
Miguel should have had a better reason than, "it was a joke." That's y Dana cut his ass. Rashad and Forrest had logical reasons (especially Forrest). Plus, these guys helped build the UFC brand, did you REALLY think THEY would be fired? REALLY?
@zshakur12 жыл бұрын
Great interview, Ariel. Keep up the great work.
@SmileForward12 жыл бұрын
What you guys have to remember is the fighters are literally the face of the UFC brand. If the UFC doesn't want to be seen as racist and misogynist, they can't employ people who are openly racist and misogynistic. You've also gotta be mindful that public image is something that the UFC has been struggling with for years; a representative making jokes about raping women isn't exactly helping the cause.
@wjhull12 жыл бұрын
@Tommy9834 That being said, I feel I should make it clear that I'm completely against Torres being fired, NOT cause I feel his rights were violated, but because there is a clear double standard being played here. If Rashad is not gonna get punished, then neither should Torres, OR if Torres is gonna get punished, then so should Rashad. Of course I don't feel the firing either of them is necessary.
@Tommy983412 жыл бұрын
@chingon711 The difference is those women never made any complaints about Rampage (as far as I know) and they were laughing with him. As the old saying goes "you cannot rape the willing." But if there were complaints then I guess I could be wrong. I just never heard of them.
@CrazyMammaJamma12 жыл бұрын
@junfatzoid i already checked it out . i saw the episode their talking about. like i said, in that show there is a van and they jokingly called it a rape van. but THATS IT. nothing about women or suprise was said. so the joke may of come from a tv show but it wasnt "its always sunny in philly"
@sagatbalrog12 жыл бұрын
joe rogan would have laughed at torres's comment lol
@yzwme58612 жыл бұрын
I understand Dana's feelings about this, but firing somebody over a comment is a little far. They should've fined him or gave him 1/3 of Torres's next fight purse. Same with Paul Daley...
@TheDarkHadou33012 жыл бұрын
@dushku1 was not a quote. A quote is something you used word for word. He might have gotten idea from there.
@spaniardmale7712 жыл бұрын
Torres should get a raise for quoting it's always sunny in philly
@voodoo103280112 жыл бұрын
The fact is, the UFC had to do something, what else could they have done but cut him? And don't condone what Miguel did at all
@mjsstujo112 жыл бұрын
15:39-15:56 Dana basically admits that Torres was a sacrificial lamb,an example to scare other fighters into line.Fuck this shit.
@chibblywubbly12 жыл бұрын
I'm a huge supporter and fan of MMA and by default the UFC, however this was a mistake on Dana's part. You cannot release a fighter for statements made on a social media forum that are deemed "inappropriate", yet still aggressively promote others who have made equal or even worst statements publicly. The worst part is if you know Miguel Torres, his sense of humor is very dry and off kilt. This was a quote from Always Sunny in Philly not a viewpoint he actually has. Poor taste Dana !!
@DioceseTemplar12 жыл бұрын
Rashad Evans wrote "I'm going to put my hands on you worse than that dude on those kids at Penn State." That sounds just as bad to me. Rashad Evans makes the UFC a lot more money than Torres does though.
@Tippet7611 жыл бұрын
Wrong decision Dana sorry. You can tell when Ariel was asking him "why not a fine, or a suspension?" that Dana realized he was being way too heavy handed.
@trentman976312 жыл бұрын
Dana is the man , but I think considering all of the socially inappropriate things that have been said by UFC fighters lately,Torres should not have been fired for a first offence, Rashad made a comment about the rape victims at Penn state the other day and hasn't been reprimanded at all for it. You can't fire one guy for rape comments, then slap the other guy on the wrist ... that's kind of ridiculous.
@Coletto198512 жыл бұрын
Are you talking about that interview with the ring girl? If you are then your perception of "rape" is very wrong my friend.
@N1Art12 жыл бұрын
@thisisaguy He signed the contract to work for the UFC didn't he? Or else how did he manage to get a job there. A job can say "From now on, at all times, you can't eat cheese" or something just as ridiculous. If you think those terms are dumb and unfair, then you have the choice to not sign your name. Torres made the choice to accept UFC's terms and his rights were not violated cause his power to make a choice was never denied from him.
@Tommy983412 жыл бұрын
At first I thought it sucked that Torres was the first guy to be made an example of but by the end of the interview I agree with Dana. Just because your contract doesn't specifically say you can say this or that. So things are common sense and some arbitrary tweet about rape is a reason to fire someone.
@harr7712 жыл бұрын
@thisisaguy Define "Working" cause Torres was still representing the UFC at the time of him posting this tweet. And private companies don't suppress free speech, they simply lay out their conditions, and an employee agrees to them, or they don't, in which case, they don't work for them. Again, Torres can say what he wants still, and the UFC can do what they want with their own company. If Torres didn't like that, he should have never agreed to be part of the UFC.
@Tommy983412 жыл бұрын
@kueefs Not against freedom of speech by any means. He owns a business and has the right to let someone go if that person does not meet a certain expectation or moral standard that he and the other owners set.
@deftim12 жыл бұрын
if you believe in freedom of speech go to work and talk to your boss the way you want and see how far it gets you
@rud3bwoy12 жыл бұрын
Yup
@Teeman923 жыл бұрын
Basically it seems that the decision was made simply because Torres' only defense was "it was a joke." If he had something intelligent to say in his own defense (or at least half-intelligent) he might still have a job. I kind of think Rashad's explanation wasn't much better. Just to get in a guy's head isn't an excuse to say anything especially on a public forum like TV or Twitter. If you're not on the net or TV or nobody is broadcasting what you're saying then go ahead say whatever. Be aware.
@CrazyMammaJamma12 жыл бұрын
Its like Miguel was part of a company...an employee for a company....if he says somthign that makes him look bad? he makes the UFC look bad....Dana did the right thing.
@DizzyAfterMidnight12 жыл бұрын
And yet Torres fought for the UFC on April 21,2012
@wheelsdeal12 жыл бұрын
I get why Torres was released. Ufc and mma is still in a fledgling state. Public Relations can still really hurt the corporation, and someone had to pay. Espicially Torres, who was the least veteran.
@BrythenormalGuy12 жыл бұрын
13:40 Tiger Woods didn't make one or two mistakes, he made many and repeated them for many years, not a good comparison Dana. I believe after you said that you realized the error.
@stickitupyourasteric12 жыл бұрын
@Everett345 When your a professional fighter, you hold a position. you dont go around making stupid as remarks and creating a bad example for yourself. Especially when you hold a position in the UFC.
@Sam1890812 жыл бұрын
@unab84 i dont think nick can read
@rua89312 жыл бұрын
Torres has tons of fans they are just more hardcore then you are. Those who watch MMA outside of the UFC know that he is the most dominant bantamweight ever. A few years ago he was in P4P talk.
@swhite611 жыл бұрын
Now that he is going to FOX he is trying to make the UFC and it's fighters look perfect to people who are unfamiliar to the sport. I can understand that but I can't understand kicking someone out of the UFC for their first offense especially when Dana says he has never been a problem before. Suspend him for 6 month to a year if you have a problem with that.
@jaspers10712 жыл бұрын
@TheLouzerman Everything you said would be true if it wasn't for one little fact. The fact that Rashad was allowed to say something equally, if not, more offensive, and get away with it. A company having its own regulations and enforcing them is fine, but those regulations and standards should be the same across the board. There shouldn't be a double standard for certain people in that same company.
@Tommy983412 жыл бұрын
lol torres watches workaholics
@DudeWhat3112 жыл бұрын
That's because Miguel Torres ain't a big name like Griffin and Evans, so no money investment on that guy at all.
@Imhim24712 жыл бұрын
@thisisaguy "In your opinion, should companies have this authority?" Well let me ask you this? Have you ever worked for a company that requires you to wear a uniform? But isn't wearing what you please a part of your freedom of expression, which falls under free speech? Yet if you show up to work out of uniform, do you feel the company has no right to reprimand you? If you don't like the company's policies, then don't work for them. You have rights, but so does the company.
@Tommy983412 жыл бұрын
@spaniardmale77 "Have you ever had a job?" What's a job? I don't understand your strange words. He wasn't representing work. He wasn't using official work property. He wasn't at work. He didn't use company letterhead. It had nothing to do with his job. He wasn't talking to a coworker. Are you actually advocating company policing and suppression of employee's personal time, thoughts and words? What a horrible world you must envision.
@thisisaguy12 жыл бұрын
The way I look at it, UFC is a corporation and if the president of that corporation says your fired then that's it your out of there. Dana is just doing what he feel is right for his business. He started this business when no one had the balls to step up and take over it. He is the pioneer of this sport he opened the doors for all the other MMA organizations ie.(Strike Force, Balatorre, etc.) As far as I'm concerned we wouldn't have MMA if it wasn't for Dana.
@69humble11 жыл бұрын
@performancepoo not boring at all just follows game plans and wins jus like gsp not all fights are going to be slugfest because then you end up like mark hominick
@MrFreshxKicks12 жыл бұрын
miguel didn't get the memo, and bottom line he should just ban the word rape from their comments.
@scorpiomilo12312 жыл бұрын
I really like Dana, I think he speaks his mind, never backs down and does alot of cool stuff for the fans. However I don't think he was right about this. Miguel Torres has not been champion for along time. My point is if Jose Aldo made a bad joke lets say, somthing tells me Dana wouldn't want to strip the belt off of his number one PPV draw at 145 lbs and cut him from the UFC roster. If Torres was still as popular as he was when he was a WEC champion, I think Dana would find his humor different
@sirjohnrambo12 жыл бұрын
he trying to make money and needs the sport to be on National tv... then there got to be some moves and statements who is not pure mma but politicks... i think he do good job is it pure mma longer no... but is pretty near without the carrier braking injuries
@norwayitalo11 жыл бұрын
You're equating joking about something to seeing the act itself as acceptable. I defended jokes, not the act itself. That's what you saw. Again, you stated from the beginning it was not okay under any circumstances to joke about it. At all. Then changed your position to it being fine if it's in a private audience. Audience members at comedian stand ups get offended by certain jokes. You know what the comedian tells them? Get over it, shut up, or leave. The vast majority of the audience agrees.
@OCPios6211 жыл бұрын
miguel torres didn't cross the line. Rashad and forrest did. If dana really cares about his fans . He will bring back torres.
@circa37112 жыл бұрын
@Tommy9834 mmm, its a lack of empathy i think. Yeah, now he gets it, but took him getting fired. Personally, im not super offended, BUT i can see both sides of an issue and understand why the UFC needs to set an example now. And its common sense: HE is not a pro comedian. He is representing his company as a professional athlete. There are certain lines and separations. I like ur logic/statement about world. Tickles my fancy.
@spaniardmale7712 жыл бұрын
Dana might be a nice guy and a great person, but that don't make him infallible. He was wrong in this one instance, NOT cause he fired Torres, but because he is using double standard. Either punish both Rashad and Torres, or forgive them both. That being said, if we are gonna punish both of them, no need to fire them, cause neither of what they said is a big fucken deal.
@Tommy983412 жыл бұрын
@SSShino As torres won his last fight, that incident was probably Dana's chance to get him out. Torres last few fights were not good AT ALL. I think torres had a good money contract. So not performing when you have a good money contract its not acceptable for the UFC and they want u OUT !
@nadhim6912 жыл бұрын
@thesanspower mmmm, Forrest actually did no say anything really wrong. If u dont understand that, I wont explain it to you.
@spaniardmale7712 жыл бұрын
Forrest Griffin and Rashad Evans comments are just as bad if not worse. Only reason they did not get Fired is because there headliners and Miguel Torres has fell down the ranks. Double Standards. Not a fair Contract termination in my eyes
@xInfamousAvengerx12 жыл бұрын
@MrFreshxKicks He contradicts himself ALOT in his interviews with his decisions
Fired for a quote from It's always sunny in Philadelphia. haha.
This is seriously messed up. Torres quoted the joke from "It's always Sunny in Philadelphia," and basically Dana's real message (whether he knows it or not) is that if you make a potentially offensive joke (publicly) that Dana doesn't *get*, you can get canned. THAT is unacceptable, and, because Dana IS much more concerned with PR than he claims to be, he should make a point of at least *appearing* to be impartial and objective--while also being sensitive to the importance of publicity.
Crazy how things have changed within 10 years, huh.
@@ligmaballs0911 it is crazy. Now people can call others terrorists and dana doesn't give a fuck.
I missed something what was said? whats the link?
I do however think that Torres was fired due to not being as important to the company as Forrest or Rashad. Rashad, whether you like or hate him he sells fights. Forrest helped put the UFC on the mainstream level. Unfortunately Torres was a champion in WEC at a time when only the hardcore fans were paying any attention. Not many people probably would buy a $55 PPV to watch him. Therefore he was the easiest guy to get rid of without losing much.
@JulioLeezy What incident are you referencing?
@xInfamousAvengerx what was Forrest Griffins Comment ?
No matter what, no matter what the circumstances are, no fighter should be informed that he is cut through a tweet, email, etc. At the very least, they should be informed via a phone call.
@lastrosenfeld did you watch the interview?
I work for a man like Dana. Straightforward, understanding, and unwavering in his pursuit of good business. Makes it hard to argue against his direction.
@vyanez08 is that really the best you could come up with?
@Tommy9834 @Tommy9834 "Torres made this deal to work for UFC." Can you verify that his "deal" included clauses pertaining to acceptable speech while not involved in an official work capacity? All indications point to the fact that this was a non-work related tweet during a non-work related period. Companies should be careful not to use their economic power over people’s livelihoods to control the social behavior of U.S. citizens. We should be careful not to let it happen.
the fucked up thing is he didnt even hear his side of the story but he heard griffin and evans its just unfair
ok so when i fighter says im going to kill you in the ring, thats fine, but when you joke aboput rape all of the sudden is controversial because of the rape victims? what about the victims of murder. so much bs.
No one really says they're going to kill each other in the " octagon" and even if they do , they are saying to each other in the heat f the moment. What Miguel Torres said was just plain stupid and was making a joke about rape on a public forum where everyone can see. Plus the joke seemed like Miguel was promoting rape through what he said. In the real world it doesnt matter where you work, if you are caught tweetng shit like that you will get punished for it.
I get wat ur saying bro But in the world we live is like that Trust me i know what ur saying But its not just the ufc trust
a joke is a joke, you shouldnt limit peoples freedom of expression. if rape jokes aren't aloud then no jokes that might "offend" should be aloud either. and we all know there is always someone offended by something in this victim like culture.
@millertimez06 many other fighters have done pretty much the same exact thing. as dana said forrest and rashad, im sure there are more. wasnt it even a quote from show? either way it was too much to release him, hence why miguel is back.
what was the tweet any way?
@spaniardmale77 "Twitter was set up for their UFC fighters." Somehow, I think this isn't accurate. Torres is still using his twitter account. I just checked it and he's been using it a lot since the time of his firing. If his twitter account were a UFC account, why would he still have personal access to it to make personal tweets? There is zero indication that the account was setup for the promotion of Zuffa or Zuffa owned companies.
@Tommy9834 "Have you ever worked for a company that requires you to wear a uniform?" We are not talking about on the job. My questions are specifically related to non-work, personal time. At no point has it been shown that Torres was working at the time of this tweet. If the tweet was made on personal time then it is protected free speech. This is not about uniforms at work or work place speech. This is private time. Should companies have rights above employee's during off duty time?
funny how dana "called forrest" and then "got after rashad" BUT he didnt get ahold of torres just fired him
@Tommy9834 As for not work-related, it actually doesn't matter. A soldier can get into serious trouble for showing up in uniform to a political rally, even if he does it on his off time, cause he's still representing his organization. (From the UCMJ), so Torres is indeed always representing UFC so he has to consider that, and it's not violating his rights cause he chose to always represent UFC by signing the UFC contract.
No they haven't. But you have to remember Ben when you are a fighter or somebody that is a public figure you have to be a little bit smarter what you say and do.
how dare he say "we all make mistakes" and then stick by his decision to go as far as straight out cut torres, how contradictory.
@begood20000 Agreed,and that is EXACTLY what I was scared of when I heard they signed that deal.He's advancing MMA and the expanding the UFC,but ironically it may be to the DETRIMENT of MMA and the UFC.
Torres got fired because Dana White was confronted about it and was embarrassed. It doesn't matter what he said, it's that Dana White's megalomania was challenged.
@thisisaguy To answer your question, yes IF the employee agrees to give that right up. You may not notice this but we give up rights everyday. When we buy something, we're giving up our right of possession of our money in exchange for someone else's right for their possession. If you sign a contract that says you will give up your right to say certain things, PUBLICLY, even on your free time, then the company gives you a right to work for them. Torres made this deal to work for UFC.
@Tommy9834 That being said, I can agree with justifying Forrest's justification, and can understand why he wasn't fired, or gotten some type of punishment.
@dramatish Griffen's justification, I can accept, Rashad's not really. That being said, I don't think Rashad should be fired, but my point is, neither should Torres. What Torres said was NOT THAT BIG OF A DEAL.
@Tommy9834 "the UFC requires their fighters to have a twitter account" Can you verify this? Torres is still using his twitter account. He opened the account in 2009. The vast majority of his tweets are personal or non UFC/Zuffa related. Unless he is under contract to use twitter as a work tool then he is under no obligation to the UFC. The UFC does not own twitter or his personal account. I still wonder why so many defend a company for firing an employee over protected free speech.
What did forrest and rashad say ??
@Tommy9834 "Torres is indeed always representing UFC" Does it say this anywhere in his contract? Remember that Torres does not have an implied contract such as an "at-will" employee. He is a contracted employee. Do you know what his contract says?
This was a great interwiev Ariel, it's really a blessing to have such a talented reporter to cover mma. You might love or hate Danas stance regarding everything that has happened, but you cannot disregard the fact that he is honest and can explain the decisions that he has made, personally I think it is pretty amazing that the president of such a big company as the UFC speaks to everyone in such a way and I hope that we will continue to see that from the UFC.
He’s not really a good reporter/interviewer, he just somehow is Able to as these questions and get away with them
He didn't get fired he fought at UFC 145 on April 21,2012.
@Tommy9834 for ufc its big deal if you already had 2 incidents prior to that
i completely agree I don't no how people don't see this
@CrazyMammaJamma it does from a businessman's (Dana White) POV. Rampage sells tons of fights so it's easier to look the other way. I'm not saying I am all for it, just that this decision was about business and saving face in my opinion and not on morals. He made the popular decision and not necessarily the right one.
@thisisaguy Speech is still free. If the UFC was a government organization, then it be a big deal to fire someone cause they said something, but UFC as a private organization can have its own set of standards and regulations, and if a fighter don't like it, then they don't have to work for them. It's no different then any other job.
@moiseslima true. would he do the same if it were gsp?
The fact that he fired Torres doesn't piss me off. A company can have it's own standard and regulations. It's not infringing on anyone's 1st Amendment rights, cause anyone can still say what you want. The consequences follows, whatever. What pisses me off, is the double standard. He can pretty up the reason why Rashad said what he said, but that is not a real justification. So either fire both Rashad and Torres, or keep both.
@thisisaguy "Was he? When is he not representing the UFC? When is his speech his own? Where is the distinction?" I was actually asking you. But remember, the UFC requires their fighters to have a twitter account now, so you can argue that the account Torres was using is like using a company given cellphone of laptop.
@bones420usa That being said then, why not punish Rashad? That fact that emotions was the cause of him saying that (Assuming that;s even true) doesn't justify anything, so why not apply that same standard you posted on him?
I don't watch the show, but tons of websites are saying its from some episode from season 4. Check it out and reply back with what you find out.
This is the way I see it: Dana got suprised during the interview where he was informared about thw tweet. For a short moment he didnt know what to respond to the interviewer, an unusual and very uncomfortable situation for Dana. As a result he got very angry and, after not recieving a proper explanation, decided to simply fire him. Now, Dana never mentioned that there will be no comeback für Miguel, and personally I believe, after a thorough apology, Miguel will be back. At least I hope so!
also dont forget abour Frank Mir. Remember when he said he wanted to kill brock lesnar inside the octagon? not only that he said he wanted to be the FIRST person to kill someone in a UFC fight.
@endwelfare No. He did the right thing by cutting Daley. Declaring that Paul will never fight in the UFC again is a bit extreme though.
10 years later* Dana - isn’t he fuc*in awesome?!
Is Dana going soft? Seriously, I never thought I would see the UFC go PC.
I don't think he should have been suspended, but I do respect Dana White's choice. I think Miguel will be back, and he will be a better business man and fighter for it. He just has to play the game a little more savy like.
I didn't know MMAfighting had an iphone app. Just downloaded it, its WAYYY better than the MMA torch app.
You're silly. Dana has to stand between the fighters, he said it himself in an interview with Ariel Helwani following Bigfoot and Overeem "You think I wanna stand between those two guys knowing one of them could throw a punch at each other and I couldn't do anything about it? I'm forced to!"
MORAL: Think before you click.
The UFC wouldn't be anywhere without Dana White. He can put his face on the UFC logo if he wanted, we should appreciate him because I couldn't stand watching another Boxing match because there was nothing else.
Miguel should have had a better reason than, "it was a joke." That's y Dana cut his ass. Rashad and Forrest had logical reasons (especially Forrest). Plus, these guys helped build the UFC brand, did you REALLY think THEY would be fired? REALLY?
Great interview, Ariel. Keep up the great work.
What you guys have to remember is the fighters are literally the face of the UFC brand. If the UFC doesn't want to be seen as racist and misogynist, they can't employ people who are openly racist and misogynistic. You've also gotta be mindful that public image is something that the UFC has been struggling with for years; a representative making jokes about raping women isn't exactly helping the cause.
@Tommy9834 That being said, I feel I should make it clear that I'm completely against Torres being fired, NOT cause I feel his rights were violated, but because there is a clear double standard being played here. If Rashad is not gonna get punished, then neither should Torres, OR if Torres is gonna get punished, then so should Rashad. Of course I don't feel the firing either of them is necessary.
@chingon711 The difference is those women never made any complaints about Rampage (as far as I know) and they were laughing with him. As the old saying goes "you cannot rape the willing." But if there were complaints then I guess I could be wrong. I just never heard of them.
@junfatzoid i already checked it out . i saw the episode their talking about. like i said, in that show there is a van and they jokingly called it a rape van. but THATS IT. nothing about women or suprise was said. so the joke may of come from a tv show but it wasnt "its always sunny in philly"
joe rogan would have laughed at torres's comment lol
I understand Dana's feelings about this, but firing somebody over a comment is a little far. They should've fined him or gave him 1/3 of Torres's next fight purse. Same with Paul Daley...
@dushku1 was not a quote. A quote is something you used word for word. He might have gotten idea from there.
Torres should get a raise for quoting it's always sunny in philly
The fact is, the UFC had to do something, what else could they have done but cut him? And don't condone what Miguel did at all
15:39-15:56 Dana basically admits that Torres was a sacrificial lamb,an example to scare other fighters into line.Fuck this shit.
I'm a huge supporter and fan of MMA and by default the UFC, however this was a mistake on Dana's part. You cannot release a fighter for statements made on a social media forum that are deemed "inappropriate", yet still aggressively promote others who have made equal or even worst statements publicly. The worst part is if you know Miguel Torres, his sense of humor is very dry and off kilt. This was a quote from Always Sunny in Philly not a viewpoint he actually has. Poor taste Dana !!
Rashad Evans wrote "I'm going to put my hands on you worse than that dude on those kids at Penn State." That sounds just as bad to me. Rashad Evans makes the UFC a lot more money than Torres does though.
Wrong decision Dana sorry. You can tell when Ariel was asking him "why not a fine, or a suspension?" that Dana realized he was being way too heavy handed.
Dana is the man , but I think considering all of the socially inappropriate things that have been said by UFC fighters lately,Torres should not have been fired for a first offence, Rashad made a comment about the rape victims at Penn state the other day and hasn't been reprimanded at all for it. You can't fire one guy for rape comments, then slap the other guy on the wrist ... that's kind of ridiculous.
Are you talking about that interview with the ring girl? If you are then your perception of "rape" is very wrong my friend.
@thisisaguy He signed the contract to work for the UFC didn't he? Or else how did he manage to get a job there. A job can say "From now on, at all times, you can't eat cheese" or something just as ridiculous. If you think those terms are dumb and unfair, then you have the choice to not sign your name. Torres made the choice to accept UFC's terms and his rights were not violated cause his power to make a choice was never denied from him.
At first I thought it sucked that Torres was the first guy to be made an example of but by the end of the interview I agree with Dana. Just because your contract doesn't specifically say you can say this or that. So things are common sense and some arbitrary tweet about rape is a reason to fire someone.
@thisisaguy Define "Working" cause Torres was still representing the UFC at the time of him posting this tweet. And private companies don't suppress free speech, they simply lay out their conditions, and an employee agrees to them, or they don't, in which case, they don't work for them. Again, Torres can say what he wants still, and the UFC can do what they want with their own company. If Torres didn't like that, he should have never agreed to be part of the UFC.
@kueefs Not against freedom of speech by any means. He owns a business and has the right to let someone go if that person does not meet a certain expectation or moral standard that he and the other owners set.
if you believe in freedom of speech go to work and talk to your boss the way you want and see how far it gets you
Yup
Basically it seems that the decision was made simply because Torres' only defense was "it was a joke." If he had something intelligent to say in his own defense (or at least half-intelligent) he might still have a job. I kind of think Rashad's explanation wasn't much better. Just to get in a guy's head isn't an excuse to say anything especially on a public forum like TV or Twitter. If you're not on the net or TV or nobody is broadcasting what you're saying then go ahead say whatever. Be aware.
Its like Miguel was part of a company...an employee for a company....if he says somthign that makes him look bad? he makes the UFC look bad....Dana did the right thing.
And yet Torres fought for the UFC on April 21,2012
I get why Torres was released. Ufc and mma is still in a fledgling state. Public Relations can still really hurt the corporation, and someone had to pay. Espicially Torres, who was the least veteran.
13:40 Tiger Woods didn't make one or two mistakes, he made many and repeated them for many years, not a good comparison Dana. I believe after you said that you realized the error.
@Everett345 When your a professional fighter, you hold a position. you dont go around making stupid as remarks and creating a bad example for yourself. Especially when you hold a position in the UFC.
@unab84 i dont think nick can read
Torres has tons of fans they are just more hardcore then you are. Those who watch MMA outside of the UFC know that he is the most dominant bantamweight ever. A few years ago he was in P4P talk.
Now that he is going to FOX he is trying to make the UFC and it's fighters look perfect to people who are unfamiliar to the sport. I can understand that but I can't understand kicking someone out of the UFC for their first offense especially when Dana says he has never been a problem before. Suspend him for 6 month to a year if you have a problem with that.
@TheLouzerman Everything you said would be true if it wasn't for one little fact. The fact that Rashad was allowed to say something equally, if not, more offensive, and get away with it. A company having its own regulations and enforcing them is fine, but those regulations and standards should be the same across the board. There shouldn't be a double standard for certain people in that same company.
lol torres watches workaholics
That's because Miguel Torres ain't a big name like Griffin and Evans, so no money investment on that guy at all.
@thisisaguy "In your opinion, should companies have this authority?" Well let me ask you this? Have you ever worked for a company that requires you to wear a uniform? But isn't wearing what you please a part of your freedom of expression, which falls under free speech? Yet if you show up to work out of uniform, do you feel the company has no right to reprimand you? If you don't like the company's policies, then don't work for them. You have rights, but so does the company.
@spaniardmale77 "Have you ever had a job?" What's a job? I don't understand your strange words. He wasn't representing work. He wasn't using official work property. He wasn't at work. He didn't use company letterhead. It had nothing to do with his job. He wasn't talking to a coworker. Are you actually advocating company policing and suppression of employee's personal time, thoughts and words? What a horrible world you must envision.
The way I look at it, UFC is a corporation and if the president of that corporation says your fired then that's it your out of there. Dana is just doing what he feel is right for his business. He started this business when no one had the balls to step up and take over it. He is the pioneer of this sport he opened the doors for all the other MMA organizations ie.(Strike Force, Balatorre, etc.) As far as I'm concerned we wouldn't have MMA if it wasn't for Dana.
@performancepoo not boring at all just follows game plans and wins jus like gsp not all fights are going to be slugfest because then you end up like mark hominick
miguel didn't get the memo, and bottom line he should just ban the word rape from their comments.
I really like Dana, I think he speaks his mind, never backs down and does alot of cool stuff for the fans. However I don't think he was right about this. Miguel Torres has not been champion for along time. My point is if Jose Aldo made a bad joke lets say, somthing tells me Dana wouldn't want to strip the belt off of his number one PPV draw at 145 lbs and cut him from the UFC roster. If Torres was still as popular as he was when he was a WEC champion, I think Dana would find his humor different
he trying to make money and needs the sport to be on National tv... then there got to be some moves and statements who is not pure mma but politicks... i think he do good job is it pure mma longer no... but is pretty near without the carrier braking injuries
You're equating joking about something to seeing the act itself as acceptable. I defended jokes, not the act itself. That's what you saw. Again, you stated from the beginning it was not okay under any circumstances to joke about it. At all. Then changed your position to it being fine if it's in a private audience. Audience members at comedian stand ups get offended by certain jokes. You know what the comedian tells them? Get over it, shut up, or leave. The vast majority of the audience agrees.
miguel torres didn't cross the line. Rashad and forrest did. If dana really cares about his fans . He will bring back torres.
@Tommy9834 mmm, its a lack of empathy i think. Yeah, now he gets it, but took him getting fired. Personally, im not super offended, BUT i can see both sides of an issue and understand why the UFC needs to set an example now. And its common sense: HE is not a pro comedian. He is representing his company as a professional athlete. There are certain lines and separations. I like ur logic/statement about world. Tickles my fancy.
Dana might be a nice guy and a great person, but that don't make him infallible. He was wrong in this one instance, NOT cause he fired Torres, but because he is using double standard. Either punish both Rashad and Torres, or forgive them both. That being said, if we are gonna punish both of them, no need to fire them, cause neither of what they said is a big fucken deal.
@SSShino As torres won his last fight, that incident was probably Dana's chance to get him out. Torres last few fights were not good AT ALL. I think torres had a good money contract. So not performing when you have a good money contract its not acceptable for the UFC and they want u OUT !
@thesanspower mmmm, Forrest actually did no say anything really wrong. If u dont understand that, I wont explain it to you.
Forrest Griffin and Rashad Evans comments are just as bad if not worse. Only reason they did not get Fired is because there headliners and Miguel Torres has fell down the ranks. Double Standards. Not a fair Contract termination in my eyes
@MrFreshxKicks He contradicts himself ALOT in his interviews with his decisions