Degenerate Art vs Hitler

I'm coming at little late to the party, but there is an excellent documentary available on KZhead that chronicles the 'Entartete Kunst' exhibition and dives into the Expressionist movement and its artists. It's called 'Degenerate Art - 1993, The Nazis vs. Expressionism', produced by David Grubin and narrated by David McCullough. It was shown on PBS some years ago, and it's well worth the watch at just under one hour.

Why does leftism tie so tightly with deranged art? The claim that it's relatable is an assumption I think not all that many people would agree with.

@@Arnaere To answer your question: many people love vivid shapes and wild colors, and can enjoy subjects that make them think, or question their views on life or world, and can sometimes enjoy of being shocked by an art experience. Also, with modern art an artist can communicate a feeling or a thought more personally, than with traditional art. You never see a landscape painting which makes you go "Hmm! Interesting!" All this makes art lifelike. I've been asked the question "why I like contemporary art" many times. Often by people who never visit an exhibition or a gallery. Why everyone should like similar art is beyond me? I like also conventional paintings, landscapes, paintings by old masters etc. but would I visit art galleries if there were just postcard pictures? Hell no, because that would be boring. Your way of mixing politics here is not much connected to how things really are. The people who buy the works and fund contemporary arts are not leftist, but rich entrepreneurs and collectors. Also, the communist Russia's view on art was really the same to the Nazi Germany, their only accepted art style was the "Soviet realism", and art which fell off that genre was thought as degenerate and against the communist ideal. So even extreme leftists can dislike or like the art piece, and name it degenerate, or deranged as you do. It's not about leftists or rightwingers, it's about dictating what kind of art you should like. What you mean by leftism is probably more open of people having the freedom of choice in this matter. But I tend to think the most people are not willing to dictate what kind of art you should like or dislike.

@@Arnaere Actually, 'left' vs 'right' was not so much the point in German Expressionism, as was showing what lay beneath the veneer of sight and assumptions. Emil Nolde, for example - one of the preeminent artists of the Expressionist movement - was also an enthusiastic supporter of the Nazi Party from the early 1920's - until his work, too, was deemed 'degenerate'. And, no; much of modern art probably isn't relatable to those who prefer art that is generally accepted as reflecting beauty or naturalism. That's perfectly fine, but this particular school of art was doing something different - forcing the viewer to think about what he was looking at.

@@curiousworld7912 it seems to be very much the point when leftists seem to find nightmarish representations relatable. It has nothing to do with thought provocation,since it's all obvious surface level subject matter. It seems to be about relishing perversion.

Agreed completely. I actually got rec’d this video bc I’m in a community of people trying to convey the exact point you’re making. Unfortunately, the community we’re directly opposed to has decided that harassing artists who draw/write fucked up things is better than addressing whatever social ills they think that art causes. Art has never been a 1:1 influence on reality, and I wish it’s something everyone could grasp.

I'm very glad to hear you've come to teller conclusion! Making art like that does not mean you are any of those negative things, and I too have come to find the opposite is true as well. I find that most people I have encountered who make that kind of art, or who love horror movies and all things grotesque, odd, strange, and disturbing are some of the best, most kind, and most caring people out there. They are the most thoughtful, intelligent and interesting people as well.

Dictators don't like people who think too much. Hitler said it pretty directly, that he didn't want Germans to think, he wanted Germans to feel. A nice painting of a landscape is nice to look at, and it won't compromise anything. Perhaps it even manages to raise some nationalistic sentiments. A statue portraying a strong beautiful body is a sort of a model for the viewer, who desires to be like him or her. So after watching an exhibition, the viewer leaves with feelings of aesthetic fulfillment, and also nostalgia, an irrational yearning for something which he can't reach. It's a simple hook really. The kind of art, which raises questions, forces people to think too much. It is made by people who think too much. People who think too much have a tendency to raise problems and ask questions. All dictatorships appear strong, but they are really very fragile systems and dictators themselves are the most scared ones. This is why they micromanage every day life by providing strong control, restrictions and simple hooks, and depend on simple people to enforce the control over people who might think too much.

@@JakeKilka That is the most defeatist egotistical load of drivel I have read in a long time. "Simple people" "Unattainable"

@@user-vy9wr8nh7p Well, the idea & theory of it comes from the Nazi Germany, I just tried to put it in words here, because I have worked on studying the subject. However, English is not my first language, so perhaps I didn't succeed well. To understand better what I mean here, read "The Faustian Bargain" by Jonathan Petropoulos or "Art in the Third Reich" by Berthold Hinz, or possibly "Art of the Third Reich" by Adam Abrams. The art in Nazi Germany majorly consisted of landscapes, which reflected their ideal of "blot und boden", and nude paintings, which reflected their ideal and aesthetics of "the aryan" body. Pretty much everything else was seen as degenerate & potentially dangerous to the regime.

Me too

Me too

Can you share the tweet thread?

@@channelingmovies It's really just the person recommending it and explaining why, but sure haha. twitter.com/zombiejerusalem/status/1306338223992565760?s=19

Wow, hey thanks that's awesome, always thrilled to hear that folks are watching. Yeah it's amazing to me how narrow-minded his art reveals him to be. Totally chained to an idealized past that never existed, incapable of seeing the excitement of the real, more diverse world that exists right in front of his face.

No wonder he was. When your piece does worse than some ugly dirty urinal that some pervert dared to call "fountain" then of course it's not fair. Though Hitler went to far and his definition of art is very limiting and hurting.

Also he was just around 18-20 years old when he painted, war and politics hindered him from continuing training his skill as he was self taught aswell.

I don't, been awhile since I made this. But I think if you just have Google images cued up, you can drag a screen shot of the image onto the search bar and it might find it for you that way

It's "George Grosz in his Dada Death costume" see: sites.google.com/site/krisglomb/art-history-visual-culture/dada

only freaks want to be doused in modern art

Sie Representiert iirc. The artist is Jeanne Mammen.

yep. he was jealous.

@@ineffablemars he was not jealous

Is cancel culture really *real* though? What figures or celebrities who have been cancelled have 100% lost their platform? What do you consider "pc culture" exactly?

Blossom Entrails Cancel culture has a trickling down effect and has the potential to hurt much smaller creators than it does the larger ones because you’re right people like Drake, for example, who was clearly having inappropriate relationships with 15 year-olds got off scot free. He has millions of dollars and a team behind him that manage his image. It’s smaller creators who are terrified to say anything that could be even partially skewed as problematic. Who are barely getting off the ground. That’s who it can destroy. When I say pc I don’t mean people should be allowed to say slurs without ramifications, i mean there seems to be a bigger concern with how people appear vs how they actually are. But the aim shouldn’t be to obliterate anyone off the map, if they do something “problematic.” The goal should be to help them realize they were in the wrong and help them grow. The latter actually does make the world a better place. The former just makes appear better because we didn’t get rid of that person. Even if you do succeed in kicking someone off the platform that person still exists you just don’t have to look at them anymore.

@@dimwitdove3813 I actually really do agree with you for the most part, I think the way you phrased your original comment came across as sort of "lol snowflakes" since a lot of people are using "pc/cancel culture" as a dogwhistle. Thank you for explaining it further. I think people who wish to be educated and are willing to learn and admit their mistakes SHOULD be kept around, the recent events with Cavetown is a great example of your point. People often are so focused on those that double down on their bigotry that we lose sight of the people who really did just make a mistake and now are looking to grow as people.

Blossom Entrails oh my goodness, thank you for actually reading my reply. I get why that was a red flag for you because that would have been a red flag for me too. But for me it’s sort of me making fun of myself because I’m very much sort of in the that “snowflake” category. It’s kind of like when you’re a nerd and your friend does something nerdy and you like “lol nerd.” But I realize it doesn’t come across that way to other people because I’m just a random stranger on the internet. I’m very much all for social justice issues and a huge advocate for social issues. But cancel culture seems like it’s kind of gotten out of control, and this video reminds of why it’s been seeming wrong for me for a while. It’s scaring me how people sense of morality has become so overly inflated that it seems to block their capability to empathize with anyone that doesn’t exactly follow their strict moral compass. And it’s just idk I think actual good people doubt themselves because knowing the right thing to do most of the time is difficult. But if you cut it down to a simple “you do or say this then you’re condemned forever,” it’s just easier to feel like you’re doing the right thing instead of actually doing it. Haha sorry I don’t know if that made any sense. I’m kind of rambling. You don’t have to read all of that. Thank you for giving me a chance to explain! It’s funny because I replied to your comment and then watched a video about tana mongeau and was immediately like, “I completely change my opinion. Cancel culture is valid and should stay.” I want to believe there’s good in everyone, but some people make it so hard. I mean I know we can’t help everyone, but I think we should still at least try. Otherwise, what’s the point? We’re all terrible and weak in our own ways. But I like to try and believe that in most peoples the good outweighs the bad or they at least have the potential to tip the scales.

@@dimwitdove3813 Of course I did! You had some wonderful insights! It's 3 AM when I come across these so mine aren't nearly as eloquent 😂 But I agree! You can never be too careful with these kinds of things but I'm very grateful that you didn't turn out to be like,,,a eugenics nationalist or some shit skskks it's nice to have a nice discussion for once! There are some political aspects Im militant on because they mean a lot to me but at the end of the day I have enough sense to tell the difference between an ignorant teenager on the internet who hasn't learned and a genuine racist who means harm which is what a lot of cancel culture folks forget to do. A lot of people jump down your throat as soon as you mention cancel culture, guilty of it myself, without necessarily taking the time to ask about someones motivations when the message theyre giving isnt even outwardly that hostile. I also apologize if that was nonsense

Makes sense, since most people today are lazy.