Nikola Jokic led the Denver Nuggets to a title in historic fashion last season, shattering the concept of what a big man could do on offense as both the best scorer and passer alive. As he puts together another remarkable season, has Jokic surpassed Michael Jordan, LeBron James Magic Johnson, Steph Curry as the best offensive player ever?
Timeline
0:00 Why Jokic is unstoppable
13:46 Case as offensive GOAT
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I have been saying for the last three years, that Jokic has mastered basketball. It's funny listening to the haters make up excuses and fake narratives in their attempts to downplay his greatness.
Jokić would be an average player without the assistance of the MPJ elite scorer. The elite scorer's defense is top notch and without his defense and his blocks, the Denver Nuggets would be at the bottom of the standings. MPJ has historic numbers and shooting percentages by 3 against GSW and double that against SAC.
@@dragicaandrejevic2060dragice ne kenjaj puno
@@dragicaandrejevic2060 LOL, sounds like an ESPN analyst burner account
@@dragicaandrejevic2060 Literally everything you typed is nonsense. Thanks for showcasing why you're an inspiration for birth control
If Joker wins 2 or 3 more chips,he is the best player in history .Why? Because he use so little effort in this games,practices etc.,he is toying with them.Jordan,Kobe and others work 24 /7 just to be that good.This is his hobby.
Man do I feel blessed as a Nuggets fan from Denver. The man is not only the best player in the world, but he has 0 interest in celebrity, no social media, no desire to go to a big market city, no drama at all ever... The guy is a unicorn.
Truly the best possible player any franchise could have
He’s not though.
@@keithtorrence2487Nobody cares about your opinion on the matter tho
hes like tim duncan
You guys are lucky to have him.
Joker is the best basketball player i have ever seen. Ive been an NBA fan since the late seventies.
you must have avoided watching a lot of players then such as michael jordan larry bird kareem et al there is NO defense being played for jokic's ENTIRE CAREER please stop racism is silly
@@DynoGreen313cry more. He's better by far. MJ overrated
I agree. He is a heavy center and a smooth point guard. BEST PLAYER EVER.
@@rockysalvatore435 please watch your first bball game then we can talk
@@DynoGreen313racism? Why? Pls stop it with that. 🥹
I think jokic understands something that few players in nba history have truly understood: basketball is fundamentally a team sport. By feeding his teammates, he elevates them, gets them in rhythm. Knowing that they’ll get the ball if they get open makes people try harder to get open at the rim or the 3 point line. It keeps everyone engaged. Additionally, his humility and selflessness encourages his teammates to be selfless too. It’s like “if the best player on our team isn’t selfish, how can I be?”. The result is a positive culture devoid of egos and pride impeding success. Everyone starts playing for each other, and for the most important goal: winning. You can see this especially in how AG and KCP revitalized their careers after coming to Denver, and dedicating themselves to their roles on the team. I think the key to jokic’s success is that he constantly is looking for ways to get his teammates involved. He doesn’t want to play 1 v 5, he wants to play 5 v 5.
Think about how obsessed people are with goat talk that alone proves 1vs5 mentality.
if only devin booker had the same mentality... the dude fucking wont pass the ball even when everbody is open even fucking KD and grayson allen who leads the league in 3pt % the dude still wont pass them the ball.. 60pts and still losing a game is fucking hilarious..
@@legenddaryl537 if a player didn't want to pass to an open KD... I just can't respect that player.. hahaha...
Cant leave malone out either.. hes built that mentallity and it contagious
Great points. And notice how the one Nuggets player in recent years who couldn’t buy into that, Bones Hyland, got shipped out and has completely fizzled out of the NBA. What I also find interesting, regarding elevating your teammates: when a player goes nuclear, scoring, 60, 70, 80 points, it is very often in a close game. Why? Because the other players become disengaged, just watching their superstar score or try to score every possession. Jokic sees the value in team game, so would never seek 60+ points. But actually, if you look at for instance his recent 32 point, 16 assist game, he created around 70 points, but less than half for himself. And the result: a blowout win, which is the norm when he puts up those kind of numbers.
Jokic is 285 pound Dirk with Magic passing and Hakeem interior play
I've watched Wilt Chamberlain ,Lew Alcendor Kareem Abdul Jabbbar, Moses Malone, Hakeem olajowon, david robinson,Bill Walton and Shaquille O'Neal during their prime years but jokic is different. Hes a complete package
Bros 100 years old and commenting on KZhead vids
complete package cant defend shit?? if you ask me who the real complete package of a player it would be kareem and hakeem both monster offensively and defensively
@@ilikecheeze5110 Yeah, dude made this stuff up completely. Didn't even mention Jordan hahahah. Needs to work on his list.
@@legenddaryl537Jokic is even better in the paint than Hakeem
He will be in GOAT convos if he keeps going the way he is going.
That 60% on turnarounds is insane
The 2023 NBA Finals MVP is the first player in the league to ever lead all players in points, rebounds and assists in a single postseason. Nikola Jokic averaged 30.0 points, 13.5 rebounds and 9.5 assists in 20 games in the 2023 postseason, there's amazing perfomances like kobe 60 in the finals or MJ 6-0 but jokic to me has already made his case as an all time great, the rest of his journey is just icing on the cake enjoy while it lasts 🐐
Jokić would be an average player without the assistance of the MPJ elite scorer. The elite scorer's defense is top notch and without his defense and his blocks, the Denver Nuggets would be at the bottom of the standings. MPJ has historic numbers and shooting percentages by 3 against GSW and double that against SAC.
@@dragicaandrejevic2060 all the nuggets are good 👍
@dragicaandrejevic2060 You are so assdumb. Did Jordan, Birds, magic, Lebron, Kobe won every rings without any helps? Did they score every point, rebound every possession, and made every assists? This is a team sport for crying out loud. Stop being a hater and a pain in the hole.
@@dragicaandrejevic2060how old are you? 60?
60 in his final game, he never scored 60 in the finals
Thank you for acknowledging scoring is more than just volume. A lot of uneducated seem to think otherwise. Jokic is absolutely the best scorer in the NBA.
Ehh it's close between him, Luka, and Embiid. Or maybe still KD. It may still be Jokic but I wouldn't say "absolutely"
@@michaelhaysdid you not see the point? The players you named average a couple more points sure but they are wildly less efficient than Jokic is.
@@SoggySlopster "wildly" is simply not true, hell Giannis has a better FG% than Jokic this year. And no I did not miss the point (but thanks for the condescending comment), all I'm saying is there there are several people who have claim to the best scorer in the league right now. Jokic is certainly the best offensive player right now, but scorer is arguable.
@@SoggySlopsterLuka, Embiid and KD are not _wildly_ less efficient than Jokic. They trade some efficiency for higher volume but it's pretty close. That's why they all have an argument along with him
@@shepardice3775 the thing is, if jokic increased his volume it would absolutely not be at the expense of efficiency. He would WAY rather have 15+ assists than have to score 40. Ultimately he does what helps win.
were in the JOKIC ERA
and the steph era and the embiid era and the luka era and the durant era ...
Giannis
Jokic putting the league on notice. Best player in the world.
I'd like to add about the Minnesota series; Jokic was shooting poorly in part because of his wrist. in the first few games, he had a wrap on it, but in game 4 or 5, he missed a few free throws he should have made, got frustrated, ripped the wrap off and his efficiency skyrocketed for the rest of the playoffs
Jokić would be an average player without the assistance of the MPJ elite scorer. The elite scorer's defense is top notch and without his defense and his blocks, the Denver Nuggets would be at the bottom of the standings. MPJ has historic numbers and shooting percentages by 3 against GSW and double that against SAC.
bait used to be believable@@dragicaandrejevic2060
@dragicaandrejevic2060 oh, hello Dragica, I haven't seen a comment from you in months. I was worried. I'm glad to see you're in good health :)
@@michaelbietsch2864Are they a troll?
@kennn30 Yeah, dragica has been commenting on most nugget related videos for years. Usually, an MPJ hater that focuses on his contract, but it appears there has been some character development
Nikola jokic is one of the only players that can make your offense go from stagnant to constantly getting and executing on quality shots to ever step foot on the court. His two MVP years are so underrated because everything around him was falling apart. He quietly carried what was genuinely one of the worst lineups in the NBA to being real contenders the year Murray and MPJ were out.
Yeah! He's a increable player. I've never have seen something like this. He made me fell in love for basketball again. jokic and Luka are my favorite players to watch nowadays.
Seeing Jokic and Doncic joking around at the All Star game was great. During the pre game warm ups Luka moved Curry under the basket so Jokic could dunk on him 😝
lol of course they are.
Jokic and Giannis for me
The fact is if you put any average player in squad with Jokic and he is willing to run the floor, cut, screen will have chance to be above average and score at will....
I think he pretty clearly is the best offensive player of all time. Not that it isn't close or something, but that he's just that incredible. There's never been someone with his total combination of offensive skills. Movement on and off ball, dominant post player, always near the top of the league in screen assists, best passer in the world, elite shooter from every level of the court [even from 3 during the playoffs where he's 41% for his career].
Larry Bird is a close second. Different body types but a similar game. Larry was a lot more flashy.
Michael jordan is the greatest offensive player of all time. He literally did all the things you just mentioned and didn't need to be 6'11 to do it.
@jeremiahsymonette4781 I would put MJ behind only Wilt when it comes to offense. But both are way ahead of the Joker.
@@jeremiahsymonette4781MJ is the GOAT but come on man. He was not near as good a passer or a screener as Jokic. To be quite honest as well, as elite of a scorer as MJ was, Jokic is a more efficient shooter from everywhere as well. Again, to be INESCAPABLY clear, MJ is the GOAT. His accomplishments, winning, defense, etc are unimpeachable. Jokic is a better offensive player though.
Jordan fan here but if he wins 3more chip Joker will be the goat for me. Atleast the way i see it right now his better than Lebron. Lebron's prime was his time in Miami and his not this good.
Probably honestly. In the half court. Dude is immortalized.
Jokić would be an average player without the assistance of the MPJ elite scorer. The elite scorer's defense is top notch and without his defense and his blocks, the Denver Nuggets would be at the bottom of the standings. MPJ has historic numbers and shooting percentages by 3 against GSW and double that against SAC.
@@dragicaandrejevic2060Was this written by a bot lol
In transition he's elite too though. Finishing, but also running the break, outlet passing, etc.
In transition he is even better. He gets the rebound and assists one second later with the longest past ever. It looks unreal.
@@dragicaandrejevic2060I think I found MPJ’s burner account
His playmaking ability is far more advanced than eny player I've ever seen. He broke every type of defense, just insane level of awareness...on top of everything, he is the most efficient scorer in the history of game and elite rebounder...If Nuggets manage to win 2-3 more chips, he will be side by side with Jordan and Lebron...
You said "unparalleled combination of size, strength and touch shot making". I would have to add his sublime footwork to that list. ⛏️🏀🏆✌️
...against NO DEFENSE
I have never seen a player with such an impact on the game since I have been watching basketball since 1995. Jokić
I agree. I can't think of any other player who is elite at every phase of offense. When you consider passing, screening, post scoring there's just no one else
Jokić would be an average player without the assistance of the MPJ elite scorer. The elite scorer's defense is top notch and without his defense and his blocks, the Denver Nuggets would be at the bottom of the standings. MPJ has historic numbers and shooting percentages by 3 against GSW and double that against SAC.
@@dragicaandrejevic2060hahahaha I remember you
except jordan and magic and larry and hakeem and kareem etc and on and on no defense is played in todays nba
Stop with this BS....Your just copying and pasting the same bullshit@@dragicaandrejevic2060
I have never seen someone talk this fast for so long while ONLY speaking facts that I've been dying to tell others. This purity and quality of the facts is unforseen. This is the first video of this channel that I am watching and it's an automatic subscribe for me. No brainer
for me Jokic will easily eclipse what LBJ has in 5 years.
Top 5 of all times at the end of career.
Put Jokic on any team with any roster, any batch of scrubs and they’re an instant contender. Barring injury, he is on a trajectory to be the greatest center ever. If he wins a few more rings in Denver, he’s in the GOAT conversation.
I’m not sure about the any roster part. Nuggets are greatly constructed right now and we’ve seen what happens when he has a low level roster with key players out; they don’t get far. We can’t underrate guys like Murray and MPJ offensively, and the mistakes guys like KCP (who had championship experience) and Gordon clean up on the defensive end. Much better than the Campazzo, Barton, Grant and Older Millsap rotation of old.
Facts
@@danielday3374you can see that he make playoff with G Leage Players , he won Championship without one All Star.
@@nemitv1157Murray is superstar level player in the playoffs bro lmao what has Jokic done without him?
that an absolutely ridiculous statement. They did fuck all in the play offs without the team they have.
Hes just a joy to watch. Makes basketball look effortless and fluid. He embodies everything i was aspiring to be when i played
No question Jokic is a great player, I am a big fan. With that said he will need more rings before we could have the goat conversation about him. Hoping he earns many more rings. He has a 300 IQ in the game praying he stays healthy.
not even about rings there is NO DEFENSE BEING PLAYED in todays nba ALL offensive stats are accordingly INFLATED if jordan was playing today he would be AVERAGING A TRIPLE DOUBLE more often even the russell westbrokk did it but he would have a 35/10/10 triple double every yr stop this nonsense and keep things in perspective
You were right. Joker is the best center ever, and he does it effortlessly.
One of the luckiest moments of my life of sporting enjoyment was my teenage daughter getting me back into basketball because she liked MPJ in the bubble years. Immediately fell in love with the NBA again, of course, thanks Jokic and the Denver style of play on offense. Thing of beauty.
great fortune
Good analysis. Places where Doncic and Jokic coming from places where people consider basketball more than just a game.
The only reason I would really want the all star game to be serious is to see Curry & Jokić on the same team
Jokić would be an average player without the assistance of the MPJ elite scorer. The elite scorer's defense is top notch and without his defense and his blocks, the Denver Nuggets would be at the bottom of the standings. MPJ has historic numbers and shooting percentages by 3 against GSW and double that against SAC.
@@dragicaandrejevic2060 So trve
@@dragicaandrejevic2060 Hahahahahaahahahaah
@@dragicaandrejevic2060 So trve
Bro when I saw his game the first time I was like yo he something. But I been saying he is Lary no trash talk. Man is undeniable and gets whatever he wants and his defense is good.
The entry passes are criminally underrated since not many guys in the nba can pull them off
Yeah he is really one of a kind.
the amount of times ive seen players lower their heads in desperation after jokic does something is wild could be a comp video of its own
highest level of play I've ever seen. he's an amazing player and goat is within reach
His passes are just so unconventional I love it
When someone is smarter than all the others and has all the talent...what can you do?!
Scrutinized, remember the time when they call a person "a witch" because they can't comprehend it. Or the time they poisoned Socrates because he's outstanding in everything he does.
@@Theni_G.German Today u have ESPN LOL
Nikola is very intelligent that is true
actually it's just that NO DEFENSE is permitted in the nba it's really that simple thus we see so many 60-70 pt games and 40 yr old lebron james puts up outrageous number even
@@DynoGreen313 defending a 2 points basket from a charging gigantic athletes is not worth the risk... they have career to maintain, a simple aerial contact, trip or ankle break might leads to injury worst will end someone's career.
Best player ever. He makes basketball look TOO easy.
Jokic ' makes opposing players look like they aren't playing defense.
@@artvallejos1460 Yes! Like they dont want to defend him. And if we look closely, they foul him everytime and reff dont call the foul. He always makes 2 and deserves the freethrow. 🤷🏻♂️
I'm not from Denver but the Nuggets are my favorite team to root for, other than my home town. I just found a video you guys posted over 3 years ago, with the thumb "GREATEST OFFENSIVE BIG MAN EVER". It's truly impressive how early you were onto this guy.🔍
Before, I thought it was Steph. His ability to distort everything just from the fear of him maybe shooting eventually without even touching the ball is insane. But, Joker is just doing stuff that's unheard of so consistently. And if someone tells you size doesn't matter they are lying
Nicely done! Thank you.
Jokic, Murray and AG are the best trio I’ve ever seen in person! I never got to see MJ or Magic though so please don’t come after me. BUT being a Denver native I got to see many legends for dirt cheap. Which is why we KNEW Joker was MVP before the league even had a radar on him. We’ve all went to games just to watch LeBron or Kobe shit on us… now we go watch to see our team shit on yours… Nothing compares to the big 3 we got here, their chemistry is UNREAL! Makes you just awe at how they can get the ball from one end of the court, into the basket in less than 3 seconds with a MEAN alley oop 🤯 I’m paying for my playoff tickets rn 😂🔥
In awe, everytime I watch him play. Also a season ticket holder, Will probably sell 1/3 of my playoff tickets. Only because it will pay for all of next season and will keep my postition for the following years playoffs as well.
@@realfriskyone how many seats do you get per game? I’ll buy some tickets from you if you can give me a good price!
Currently the best player by a large margin. If he keeps this up he will be the GOAT.
10:41 - this assist is crazy; the defense doesn't even understand where is the ball
Great video, loved you spitting facts for almost twenty minutes!
Most on point analysis I’ve seen. Give him at least 2 more chips and he’s in the goat debate, imo 🤷🏻♂️
Consistent uploads from you guys are a blessing😩
He shot 9 times vs kings and he was +37 thats bannanas
Great video ❤
Amazing video man, that is a subscribe for me. You mentioned everything I was thinking while watching the video, and gave a fair comparaison to the other best offensive players ever. Prime Shaq would have been another comparaison we could have made, but like you said Jokic is the best all-around offensive player ever, even transition isn't a week point for him (compared to Lebron and Jordan yes of course, but compared to other Bigs clearly not, this guys run likes hell too !)
He's the 2nd coming of Larry Bird in a 6"11' frame, but without the trash talking
larry was a MUCH better player than jokic please stop
@DynoGreen313 ok maybe I was a bit hasty, but he's got a lot of time to play yet. Time will tell
I don't get this comparison. Larry was more athletic, a better defender, and a better shooter. On the other hand, Jokic is a better rebounder, post scorer, and playmaker. Their games aren't even that similar. Jokic is 1 of 1
@@tmjz7327 larry bird was a better player PERIOD than jokic can DREAM of being and jokic is NOT a better rebounder OR playmaker than larry the things some of you say 🤣 my god man
@@DynoGreen313 jokic is a better playmaker. You’re stuck in the past. Sorry, but facts don’t care about your feelings!
You guys are the best
so well written
gr8 video man
Throwin yall a sub. Seems like a well thought out knowledge channel 🫡
Awesome video on point
Great and detailed analysis
Saw the glimpse of it waay back in 2019
Great breakdown. Enjoyed it a lot. Thanks
Great video 🎉
imagined this! an nba team is having a try out and this whole nuggets team is participating without even knowing each one of them, definitely jokic will be last one to be pick thats just how underrated he was before.
He’s good let’s see what happens in the playoffs
An amazing player with a Larry Bird-like BBIQ.
He could go down as the best big man ever, I know catching Kareem is nearly impossible but we all know Jokic would leave Kareem in the dust even in his prime
Mr. Inevitable
ever since the bubble i knew jokic and the nuggets were gonna be a problem for the league, but fuck i didnt know it was going to be this deep tho, shits insane
Awesome video, and I like to think what teams going against the Nuggets in the playoffs gameplan against Jokic. I still think "making" him a scorer is the better option, even though like you said he IS an elite scorer. But Jokic's playmaking is what makes them cohesive and flow as a team, it's a small sample size but I don't think it's a coincidence he's a career 0-4 in the playoffs when he has 40 points in a game. And plus I'm sure he'd rather make the right pass than iso everytime, you don't want to give the star what he wants. Will it work? Probably not, but it's the best I can think of 🤷
bravo!
Don't know about the best but he is the funnest to watch scents Magic/Bird.
He's arguably the greatest player ever... look at the stats he leads the most with Michael Jordan. #1 in Per alltime, #5 in DPM, #1 in BPM, #1 in winshares per 48, #3 in NBA history in TS% beind Deandre Jordan and Gobert, two low volume non-shooting centers. He also lead every advanced metric just about like Hollingers value added or 538 Carmelo. This is not just all a coincidence you can't put to much faith in any one stat but when then they all point to the same it thing it shows he does something which the stats are detecting even beyond the box score, his feel of the game and intelligence produce results for his team to as great of an extent as any player ever.
One should analyze scoring in 4th when the game is close, this is where he scores, not looking for volume in less important games
in the end, he'll br top 5 for sure
what a player and 2x mvp , am very amazed and started watching euro league recently. not surprised how they play in nba. hon estly the play there is much better than american
Yes, if he can continues playing like this for another 5 or 6 years, and win 2 more champions, I will consider him as the GOAT offensive player EVER. The key here is that the potentials of players around him are fully utilized, which is the reason their offense has been so good, the reason they could win champions last season.
Jokić would be an average player without the assistance of the MPJ elite scorer. The elite scorer's defense is top notch and without his defense and his blocks, the Denver Nuggets would be at the bottom of the standings. MPJ has historic numbers and shooting percentages by 3 against GSW and double that against SAC.
@aandrejevic2060 Is MPJ better than Anthony Davis or Scott Pippen? MPJ is good, very good, but it is much much easier to replace a 2nd tier player than to replace a top tier player.
Is say that mj's last 25 games before Phil Jackson took over the bulls, when he was forced to play pg when he averaged an EFFECTIVE triple double, were the best offensive period we've seen, but it was too early for that kind of playmaking and Phil preferred the triangle
The Joker's unique trait is his humility. For most people, when you're better than everyone at something you have a big ego about it. When you're winning at the highest level that only feeds you ego. Unlike most players, and pretty much all of the greats mentioned in this video, they have massive egos. Jokic doesn't. When you don't have a big ego and you truly love your team and teammates it's easy to pass the ball even when you're not well covered. His ego doesn't affect his decisions.
He's playing great basketball, racking up impressive stats, MVP's, all-star appearances, & now he's won a championship & Finals MVP! I like his game and would like to see him add numerous more of all the aforementioned! He's got the clutch gene in big games and in the closing minutes of important games! He's not the first to accomplish all that! Add multiple scoring championships & consecutive Finals MVPs/Championships to his resume, then compare that to the others before him later in his career! Today, his accolades don't earn him an honorable mention even!
Nikola Jokić 🐐
Jokic be having HOF dimer badge
100% YES YES YES YES
jokic is just behind MJ in the GOAT conversation 👍 insane player
Jokic is all time level with Jordan and Lebron
He's gonna be the GOAT by the time he retires.
nah , he's a team and pass first player so ppl sleep on him being able to literally force baskets every offense if he wanted to 💀
I’m a big fan of Joker, he’s in the convo for all the reasons listed here and more At the same time it’s really difficult to compare eras, saying “Joker’s true shooting percentage is greater than peak Lebron” is silly cause the league has changed so drastically in 10 years time 2009-2016 Lebron playing small ball 5 in today’s era would be wild
Absolutely
If you’re under the age of 60, Jokic is the best player you have ever seen. PERIOD!!
After LeBron I agree
Just goat. No need for adjectives.
I paused a bit to think about the other candidates and yeah I guess I have to agree. He has incredible efficiency, he can do everything on offense, shoot 3s or mid range, move off the ball, move with the ball, score in the post or the top of the key, get offensive rebounds, with the best passing ever from a big man. Like... Kobe and Mj and AI were incredible on O, but he is actually a better passer than them. We can debate about shooting efficiency because there's a lot less contact in the modern game, but the passing isn't close. Also they were not as good if they didn't have the ball in their hands.
If jokic was a little bit more athletic and better on defense, he would definitely be in the goat conversations by now.
Bro has 0 flaws offensively.. if he was all defense level player he would be by far the goat
Already is
real mvp
Somebody's gotta come up with a new nickname for this prodigy. "Joker" is too easy...
Really the only thing keeping jokic from being an elite two way player is his at the peak shot blocking. Which only really happens during direct blowbys. His defensive IQ is the best among centers and if the shot is not at the apex already he will strip you. He's always in the right position. Is smart about when to give up the shot and risk not getting in foul trouble. Not to forget. Rebounding is a key part of playing defense which jokic is easily the best at. His athleticism isn't that big of an issue since agility is not that big of a factor compared to when you're a wing or a guard.
Jokic is the perfect answer to these young fans who think these new NBA players are too fast & athletic for the older NBA players to compete with. All that crap about someone like Bird being too slow and non-athletic to be able to play in today's league is laughable now. Speed & jumping ability is fine, but it doesn't replace skill & IQ.
Right! That argument is officially dead in its tracks.
After Bird and MJ, for sure he is.
Many people don't want Jokic as MVP because they think an MVP should make the most awesome baskets. But what makes a most valuable player is the creation of easy baskets.
Yes
This is hilarious to look back at
That zone between restricted and the free throw line should be called "the yoke". 1.because of how often and well he shoots from there, and 2. because the zone resembles the shape of a yoke you put on oxen to pull a heavy load, which is mostly when Jokic starts shooting from there. When he has to carry as the team gets behind or the clock runs down... just sayin :D