MOA Rifles .22 Creedmoor - Field Results, Comparisons, and Answers
2018 ж. 22 Ақп.
145 466 Рет қаралды
For those wanting to know more about the .22 Creedmoor, check out this video we put together for you below! After hundreds of comments, phone calls, and messages, we decided the best way to answer them all was to show what the Creed is capable of in true field conditions. There was a lot of misinformation and false claims being made about this cartridge when we made our first post, so in full transparency we are here to set the record straight. Once you've watched the entire video, post your comments, questions, and thoughts below!
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Very well done , very good information .. I have a question for you .. What is behind the high rate of barrel twist required i now see listed for match bullets ? In 56 years of hunting /reloading /shooting i have started seeing this only recently on match bullets , for example 1 in 9 twist or higher required , 1 in 8 twist or higher required , 1 in 7.5 twist or higher required , why is that ? I have loaded and fired match bullets all my life and this is a first for me.. I will give you a short history on a 6 mm ctg i have been loading now for 11 years with a barrel twist of 1 in 10 and i have fired match bullets with excellent results through that barrel , 5 months ago i bought a box of match bullets in 95 grain weight made by a different company and all my bullets keyhole on the target ?? I'm at a loss as it's a proven load with other brands of 95 grain bullets ? I have loaded and fired bullets made by 3 major brands of match bullets through that barrel and in the same bullet weight before .. These new bullets do not say anything about a certain barrel twist required .. So i'm at a stand still now .. thanks .. Why is that label on bullet boxes requiring high rates of barrel twist.?
I have no real world experience with the 40 degree Ackley shoulder yet but have read a lot and talked to a lot of people who do. It is said that the 40 degree shoulder changes the the way the burning powder leaves the case and enters the bore. It supposedly has an effect on barrel life, extending it. Maybe not significantly but enough to tell a difference. Personally barrel life isn't as big of a deal to me. Barrels on guns are like brakes or tires on cars, the more you use them the quicker they wear. The more performance you car has the the brakes and tires will most likely wear faster still. Same with a gun barrel, essentially there's no free lunches. I'm wondering if a guy was so inclined if the 40 degree shoulder would benefit the 22 Creedmoor for performance or barrel life? I understand that turns it into a wildcat cartridge but if you already reload it's only another step in the process really.
You know you stuff brother.Thanks for a great video and information.
Awesome! When people start realizing the bc and speed that is achieved with the duece creed they will start using one! With the 224V being thlatest rage this year a light will be shown on the caliber with heavy, high bc bullets. MOA please do a little testing with the 80 and above offerings. I’d really like to see a rig specifically for the 90gr Sierra as the bc is phenomenal. You could spin on a barrel and do a bit of testing....
@@mylexicon2 224 Valkyrie is popular because stays within match-legal velocities, among the many other reasons.
@@georgeshorter142 so does 22 creed if you use 95 grainers
Great video guys. I use a 243 26" barrel and love it. 22 creedmor looks cool. People can compare all day but it all comes down to really how it performs and it's different. Again nice video
Great video man thanks for comparison. Been shooting a 22 250 for along time now but real interested in the 22 creed
I really appreciated the honesty on barrel life! Theres way to much exaggeration from most on barrel life when it comes to high pressure cartridges. What material do you guys use for your barrels? Chrome molly hopefully?
All MOA Rifles use Benchmark Barrels
Yes, thanks for the honesty and not trying the crap others pull. “Well that depends on your loading.” “That depends on what your accuracy requirements are!” “Some guys have gotten xxxx number of rounds out of the barrel”. It’s so nice to hear a reasonable answer. Nobody wants a mild loading on a hot rod cartridge. Nobody is going to be okay with a rifle that was 1/2moa new shooting 3+ moa now.
What ballistic program were/are you using?
What's wrong with the .243. You can get 58gn easily going 3900+ and 75gn going pretty fast as well.
great video - i love the up front and direct approach - zero bullshit
its all bullshit they keep trying to perfect perfection.
Have you guys tried the 90 grain bullet?
It seems you are moving in the direction of varmit/coyote loads. I am considering an alternative for 6 Creed in PRS. I am looking for 90g bullet moving 3150-3200. Maybe 22--250? 22 Creed seems too hot after watching your very informative video.
How does the 22 CM compare to the common wildcat 22x243/22x260?
Great info, editor giving me a epileptic fit
How's it compare to the 22-250 Ackley improved
Can't seem to find the original video of the unveiling. Could you post a link please?
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What rifle are you using?
Barrel replacement is not an insignificant cost. If a barrel swap costs $500 with a quality maker's barrel and it only lasts 1500 rounds, you're paying as much or more in barrel wear (33 cents a round) as it costs to buy the projectile (assuming a Berger or Sierra premium bullet). There comes a point where the extra speed adds little value at high cost. Sometimes, good enough is good enough. I'll take the 22-250 if I want that kind of thing.
Well said..Could not have said it any better. There comes a time when more speed and more energy is not Better.
Yup. Well said. If you can afford it I'd say go for it. I use 243 26" 1:9.25 twist. Mostly 58gr @4,000fps+ or 87gr @ 3,400fps +. Coyote and some long range target shooting. Amazing performance. And I exclusively handload. At the end of the day it's all about how you like your setup. If you handload, go for a 22 creedmor. I've had 22-250s. Very nice. But a heavier faster bullet at long range(if needed) is a great thing to be capable of. Especially in high winds
@@derekbeyers8804 The counterpoint for me is things like a 300 Lapua or Norma, where you have short barrel life but a high cost per round anyway. In that case, the short barrel life is not really a significant cost relative to the cost of the consumables you spend burning it out. But with 22 creedmoor where bullets are cheap, brass is durable and powder charges relatively modest, barrel costs are relatively much more significant. But it's still relative.
What is the twist rate in the moa 22 CM rifle? Thank you for the great video!
8 twist
Thank you, 8 twist, awesome!
What about a 22-250ai with 88gr ELD-M? That’s a nice option too. I have a 1/7t btw.
excellent info
Great video and good information!! well done, I love the 22-250 but the .22 creedmoor makes sense that it will out shoot a .22-250 and be able to run a heavier bullet also making it way more versatile than just a Varmint rifle.
Canadian Hunter , yeah but it won't out do the other two options - one being a TRUE CUSTOM wildcat & they other will just blow your mind & save you hundreds if not a thousand dollars... Custom built wildcat .322 Lightening - .325wsm necked down to .22 ☆OR☆ just do as REMINGTON did 20 years ago & sabot. 22 rounds in a .30-06 & get velocities of OVER 4,000 FPS.
I’ve been shooting a 22-243 Middlestead for nearly 20 years, and yes 22 creedmoor is a wildcat also. I have a 1:7 twist barrel and shoot 80gr matchkings, it’s a barn burner. Everybody these days is wildcat crazy.......20 wildcats that do the exact same thing.
What is the rate of twist on the 22-250? Not a fair test if it is what most are, 12 or 14 ROT. Should be at least 1 in 9 for a 75 grain bullet.
Would like to know how it performs with 55gr bullets!
To quantify the differences... Using the case dimensions of the 22cm, it has about .0224 in³ or 8.8% more case capacity than the standard 22-250. Then, if you compare the 22cm to the 22-250 A.I. by calculating the case dimensions you will see the volume is basically equal. The body of the 22-250 a.i. has about .004 in³ more. The difference in volume of the shoulder to neck dimension is going to be minimal and the difference would stay about the same so I didn't bother calculating that.
My question is how much is the gun gonna cost and how much is the ammo gonna cost?
Frankly I’m more interested in heavier bullets like 80-90gr bullets.
Did the 22-250 have the same length barrel and twist rate? Also, was the brass for both rifle the same? I thought that the 6.5 creed and the 22-250 was based off the 308 or an I mistaken? Cool video, thanks!
If all we are after, is a fast .224 projectile, think 224 Clark/Texas Trophy Hunter. That will straighten out the rifling grooves in a barrel. :
My only question is what would be the goal of this rifle other than just being a another cool gun. Because the 22-250 is arguably the best coyote cartridge and is built to shoot 45-55 grain bullets 3500-4200 feet per second and have just about no drop out to 400 yards--no dialed drop. Just a thought because at first I was thinking it would be awesome to have this 22 creedmoor but then I realize I'd be blowing everything up with 75 grain bullets going 3600 feet per second
JD Kirane it would be awesome to have one for pig or deer hunting tho ! Not to mention the fact it’s a creedmore based on the 22-250 and the 6.5 creedmoor 👍 Another wildcat cartridge
204 ruger is a beast as well
You have. Any rifles available? Looking to build or buy
The ancestor of the Creedmoor rounds goes all the way back to 1913 with the Charles Newton designed .250-3000. Any of the Creedmoor rounds can be formed from .250 Savage cases, or the .22-250. They will come out slightly short, usually 1.912" vs 1.92" for the Creedmoor/30 TC cases. The only real difference between the .22 Creedmoor and the .22-250 Improved is that the Creedmoor cases have a few degrees less body taper. The Ackley Improved measures a nominal .454" at the shoulder, whereas the Creedmoor case measures .464." That said, I think the .22 Creedmoor is a very sensible evolution of the line. Frankly, I'm astonished that Hornady hasn't made it official already.
Unicorn barrel burner at that. 243 is enough barrel burner for me.
its going 3x the speed of sound. how dose a bullet perform transitioning through supper sonic to sub ? i guess what im thinking is there is a sweet spot where it starts to wobble ? i dont see it being a problem inside of 500 but more elr stuff
You should take a look at MarkAndSam Afterwork channel. They shoot at very long distances and they say that most of modern vld bullets dont tumble after the transsonic zone
It's a frick'n lazer. Very cool.
Cool stuff
Why are you listing CIP pressures for the .22-250 instead of SAAMI pressures? The Sporting Arms and Manufacturers Institute(SAAMI) pressure for the .22-250 is 65,000 PSI. I would note that is PSI and not CUP. It looks like you were looking for the lowest listed pressure, which lead to the European Standard which is 6,000 PSI lower, to make the .22 Creedmoor to appear capable of higher pressures than the .22-250 Remington. I am going to paste the details of SAAMI vs the European standard of CIP directly below... FWIW. "In the U.S., voluntary pressure standards for rifle cartridges are set by SAAMI, a member of ANSI. Most other countries in the world follow the standards of Europe's CIP (Commission Internationale Permanente pour l'Epreuve des Armes à Feu Portatives or Permanent International Commission for the Proof of Small-arms, sometimes referred to as the International Proof Commission)." You were correct on the CIP top pressure for the .22-250 Remington at 59,000 PSI. You failed to mention the SAAMI standard for the .22-250 Remington at 65,000 PSI for reasons unknown. It quite frankly looks like cherry picking information from multiple sources in an effort to give a rather skewed view on the safe pressures for this cartridge. Further it makes zero sense to even get involved with CIP when we are talking about two AMERICAN, and hence SAAMI, cartridges.(?) I am not trying to take a cheap shot and I hope that comes through in my post. If it is not clear please understand it was not my intention. Regards, Matt
Does he seem like the reading/thinking/learning and "intellectually curious" type or the KZhead video watching/talking/teaching "born genius" type?
Well... pressure signs are pressure signs. ... ... so... .....
Good video
Awesome video. Have you all played with the 7mm creedmore?
Negative
bro! what is the name of rifle and model no. ?
uncledoug SAYS GOOD VIDEO !!!!!!!!! I AM A BELIEVER !!
I'm currently shooting my 22-6mm @ 3600 fps 80 gr. Hornaday eld match 1 -8 twist 28 inch barrel
May I ask which bipod was being used.
Rugged Ridge Outdoor Gear Extreme Pod
Thats not even a fair comparison. Fricken tc venture vs an moa rifle. Whats the barrel length difference?
Is the twist the same for both barrels. Nice cartridge. Looks good. You really should test loads in at least moderate or warm temperatures. What is not over pressure in snow, very likely will be in a nice 70 degree day. If you send a rifle and ammunition running higher pressure in cold weather, the pre ignition of a hunter shooting in 80 or 90 degree weather could be problematic or dangerous. I’ve developed proprietary cartridges. Don’t want to see anyone get hurt or you getting sued. Looks good though. Just in case, that really is my last name. Sometimes people think I’m being arrogant or something.
Appreciate you checking out the video Aaron! There are obvious dangers and risks with reloading, we mentioned that in the video. We filmed this/finished the gun during winter here in Oregon at our shop, so it wasn't an option to show it under warmer temperatures. However, we've put thousands of rounds through the gun and have the recipe dialed. Here's another video shooting the .22 Creedmoor kzhead.info/sun/aKZqlLOuh3WNaZE/bejne.html
How does the .22 Creedmoor compare with the .220 Swift?
Ernie Swift , the .220 swift should be right on par if not outperform the .22 Creedmore.... But hey man don't waste your money on one, read my full comment on this page & you will understand. There's actually two other options that blow that CUSTOM .22 Creedmore out of the water - one is a true custom wildcat they other option will blow you away.
Yeh, wondered the same! If you want a 1000 round barrel burner the Swift is well up there and with cheap Norma brass.
Lol not well.
I'll keep my 22-250 thanks! It's a good little cartridge though.
Cool
Fudds, listen here. The purpose of cartridges like the Nosler and Creedmoor line is to allow very aerodynamic, high bc and sectional density bullets to be loaded to magazine length, no single feeding. These cartridges are designed from the get go to shoot heavy match bullets consistently and accurately with little fuss. Velocity isn't the whole story, like how 6.5 Grendel loses the 100m dash to 6.8SPC, but 6.5G goes the distance. Comparing this cartridge to a high velocity varmint round like .22-250 or .220 Swift is not apples to apples.
Precisely why when someone asks how flat, I respond between what two distances.
Wish I had that jug of 4451 in the background haha
What about the barrel life? my guess it burns out a barrel as faster or faster as a 22-250?
55gr at 3400 in a -22-250 is a very mild load LOL
wonder how 90gr and 95gr bullets shoot...
what they said lol^
I want to see an unbias comparison of the 22 Creedmoor and the .224 Valkyrie
Casey Terrence the 22 creed is probably 800fps faster than the Valkyrie (I think they are running at 2500ish but not sure) it’s an apples and oranges comparison honestly. Both will utilize the heavy, high bc bullets and that shining a light on what can be done with the modern .224 bullets
224 Valkyrie is designed to shoot from an ar15. it's a 6.8spc case necked down. No where near the capacity of the creedmoor case. it's like comparing a 223 to a 22-250.
Not comparable. So don't even ask. 223 bolt face vs 308 bolt face.
Timber Tramp 2500? Where did u get that -# ?
The Valkyrie is even slower than the 22-250
6x47 Lapua with 87 grain Bergers kicks it's butt
In what way? Can we just leave the parent case as is (6cm) and stomp the ass of a 6x47?
The Creedmoor anything like the 220 Swift
Im glad I taught my sons how to be safe loading a cartridge. And they dont have to depend on you tube for info.
The sad part is there isn't many heavy game bullets for it.
100 grain federal is out I'm pretty sure
22-243?
I have been looking around and I can not find a comparison. I have always wanted to build a 22/243. What is the difference between them?
I’m gettin 3625 with 95gr v max in my 6.5prc waypoint..devastating
H4350 br-2
th only way this could have ben a good comparison like you briefly mentioned at the end is equal bullet class and another wildcat cartridge ie 22x47L 22-250 AI or 22-243 AI... your argument is factory offerings then why pick a 22creed? that's wildcat not standard, and youre not a factory rifle maker per say you can chamber whatever the customer needs/wants since youre already targeting reloaders and the fireforming is a poor excuse
agreed!!!! 22-250 AI lets run that comparison - better yet 22X47 lapua 4-5 grains less powder !!
Who thought that a 22-250 was going to be faster than a 22 Creedmoor? Look at a picture of them side-by-side, it’s pretty obvious which ones gonna lose.
I'm still not a fan of any of the Creedmoors. A 3 shot (22, 6.0, or 6.5) Creedmoor magazine holds 4 - (.22,.250, or.300) Savage cartridges. That is 33% more shells in the same space! Someone needs to bring out a 6.5 mm version of the 250 savage AI cartridge. Call it the 6.5 Savage Bastard!
Cool story bro
So another round thats totally inferior to the .220 Swift or .22 PPC. The Swift is the KING.
@@mylexicon2 like we would ever see that! You mean more money in the mfg pockets.
I love my swift but have to ask, how does your swift do with 95gr smks?
@@charliecraddock2217 mine? No idea. Don't plan on shooting them. Shoot ragged holes with 53gr. hp. That round seems to do very well on yotes over 100yds. I don't shoot much past 500yds. Little hole in no exit. No sewing. I also use it for p.dogs. little hole in, no back side of p.dog left!
Ok but you 220 swift is not mad 22,250 is king Ben made a lot longer and your 220 is fast but a lot less bullet like 29 gr most 22,250 I find is 55 and up
It should show the difference in the sice 6.5 creed is around same length as a 308 22.250 should be smaller
.224 TTH already does this with a 70 grain bullet
I think that the point is that if you already shoot a creedmoor then this is an easy step to having a 22 caliber, especially if you reload your own ammo. Great little sister to 6.5 creedmoor that might be exactly what I'm looking for.
This new cartridge seems to be the answer to a question never asked. I cant really see this gaining much traction (remember the .223 wssm). Most .22-250 rifles push a 55gr bullet at speeds of 3650+fps but I get it your trying to sell the .22CM. If people want a heavier bullet I would imagine they would pick up a .224 valk.
Hornady will have dies and brass. You can order them now.
A thousand round barrel life? By the time you work up a few loads it's time to change the barrel. There really is no enjoying a rifle like that. That said, the kid in this video must have had a hell of a lot of fun and I do envy him.
If 1000 rounds is a few rounds of load dev, you're doing it wrong.
If you’re taking more than a handful of rounds to develop a load, you’re doing it wrong.
Basically you built a gun that is pretty much the same ballistics and velocities as a .243 haha. or am I missing something ?
That's what you surmised?
A 75 grain bullet in a .243" doesn't have as high of a BC as a 75 grain .224" bullet. The velocities are equal but the ballistics aren't. That being said, this doesn't really do anything the 243 can't. Its just another option and something fun to play with.
Not even a close comparison Jason. 80gr 243 cal bullet has about a 320BC, an 80 gr in 224 has about a 480bc. that'll be huge at long distance.
Hahah i was just about to comment the exact same thing but you beat me too it!
dont get it 22/250 and 220 swift out run it if we are going to do a neww 22 i want 4500 fps or more some thing new not remanufactured
Verygood verygood😀😀😀😁😁😁😃😃😃
So... its a reinvented 22-250.....huh....
.22-250 3400fps vs coyote DEAD! .22 Creedmoor 3429fps vs DEAD! High performance hunting? This is an ooowwe I'm sharp video.
Faster and smaller isn't better
Just wondering why you didn’t check length of casing after you resized the 6 creedmore to 22 creedmore. I’m pretty sure it should have been trimmed abit.
How come you’re not running varget? 37.5 varget will give you 3700 FPS with a 50 grn v max 22 250. Fantastic coyote medicine
Oh hell what’s next, the 7mm Creed before the 300 Creed?
Bryon Curnutt Q is developing a 8.6 Creed
Next is the 22 PRC, before the 22-338 Lapua Mag LOL
300 creed would be the 30 TC - the 6.5 Creed's parent case.
I built a .50 creed 🙃
Try the 22-284 and see what you get blow them both out of the water
1000-1500 rounds for barrel life..... good god it’s a barrel burner
Um unicorn
Umm umm umm umm umm. Ok I will stop.
No more barrel lol
I find myself believing this chap.
Am I the only one that is sick of the word creedmoor this is a 22 Cheetah reboot :-) this has all been done before ….
Finally !!!! so sick of " The Creedmoor " come on guys - think a little bit! nothing that people havnt been doing for years !!some guy puts his name on it- hornady steps up with there big bat - everyone goes nutty over it???????????????
and i dont care about barrel life i burn barrels all the time
22/47L is much better
Weak..
Who needs this? People with too much time and or money.
Sounds like you need to find a better paying job. Time is never wasted doing something you love and jealousy will make you a bitter person.
@@glockst6847 wrong
Stupid fucking cartridge
☆☆NEWS FLASH☆☆, There is a .22 cal that blows that .22 Creedmore out of the water - .322 LIGHTENING - 75gr bullet @ 4,321fps - 500yds drop is ONLY 2.98"(1 in 8.35 twist) 27" barrel & 1431 fpe - believe those numbers blows that Creedmore out of the water. Yup it's a .325wsm necked down to .22, so in closing, I'm not so sure that your precious little Creedmore is all that !!!!! Just like the 6.5creedmore isn't all that when compared to the .264 win mag or .257 WEATHERBY... Or the now popular .338 Lapua is NOT ALL that when you compare it to the .338-.378wby - in fact the .338-.378wby produces 12% more velocity & 16% more energy..... Just thought you ought to know your NOT doing ANYTHING SPECIAL, well except over charging for a supposedly custom wildcatted SUPERIOR cartridge that has ALREADY been out done, when in fact all one has to do to beat the .22 Creedmore is sabot .22 rounds in a .30-06 & they can obtain velocities of over 4,000 fps..... no special overly EXPENSIVE CUSTOM gun required... What makes you(MOA) your doing anything special, 20 years ago Remingtons Accelerator rounds (.308win & .30-06) was out doing your .22 Creedmore - come on guys, for a expert custom gun company your way behind times, but I guess that's what the public gets from people that jump into gun making & believe there the KNOW IT ALL'S, instead of someone like my self or ☆☆THE TRUE GUNSMITH - RANDY SELBY☆☆......... That's all there is to say on that...... Just unsubbed because I just can't stand ALL the LIE's & misconceptions, misinformation that's being provided to hard working stiffs like most of America that can't AFFORD to waste there money on inferior guns & CARTRIDGES......