Testing the Power of AVL's Groundbreaking Hydrogen Race Engine
We keep hearing about how Hydrogen could possibly be the future of modern race engines, but AVL Racetech is pushing its engineering expertise by building its own H2 Hydrogen Race Engine. We took a trip to their HQ in Graz, Austria, to test their engine on the dyno to see just how much power it can produce, how efficiently it can run, and just how difficult it is to build a Hydrogen engine for race cars.
0:00 Hydrogen Power
0:36 The Engine Construction
2:51 Hydrogen Difficulties
4:00 Pushing the Engine on the Dyno
6:11 The Engine's "Father"
9:56 AVL's Goals for the Hydrogen Engine
#AVL #hydrogen #engineering
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“Clean sustainable and *exciting* race engines” You got that bloody right. *Exciting* is what we want. Not a dull electric motor.
Expect a lot of videos like "why hydrogen wont work" by other companies or channels... because of all the money some companies poured into EV and they dont even want to think about Hydrogen or biofuels
100% agreed. Envy is the WORST Ego- driven sin.
@@mrbungle3310it's nice to have dreams and share ideas but why would you talk about things that you have no idea about with such confidence? The problem with hydrogen is that it takes more energy to create hydrogen, store it and transport it than the fuel provides. Hydrogen is the lightest and smallest element, it can leak through gaps that nothing else can and needs to be stored at 5000-10000 psi. Because of its low density, it can be cooled down into a liquid to try and make it denser, but needs to be cooled to less than -250°C. Even as liquid, it's 4 times less energy dense by volume than gasoline. So transportation and storage are major issues, the issue isn't that it can't be done, it's that the solutions need to scale up to a large and efficient enough size that it becomes viable. The bottom line is that it makes no sense to put more energy into making a fuel, than the fuel provides. But I hope it does work out eventually, even though it will take time.
Tell that to the Mcmurtry speirling fan car lol
@@mrbungle3310Porsche has a plant in Chile that's producing E-fuels, so that in itself says otherwise
The twin water rails tells me this engine must have an incredible exhaust pressure with all that steam. I love it :)
He has a point. Lots of hydrogen engines have been built before but all made pretty bad power numbers. This engine is among the first to produce big power. Impressive work. Let's hope these could work in consumer vehicles too!
don't hold your breath....
Actually many companies already have hydrogen engine nearly ready for production. They make about the same power as a gas or diesel.
@@moabman6803 The first company that comes to mind is JCB and their hydrogen powered farming equipment which is a step up from using fossil fuels amd such. There's also a hydrogen powered hot rod pickup truck that was built by a guy who showed it off at a car event not too long ago.
I only see and hear about hydrogen stations closing. Talk about range anxiety with hydrogen, you'd just be driving from one rare station to the next.
@flemlion13 What a strange thing to conclude. Hydrogen for the most part is still being developed as a source of fuel. It's being tested in some areas, so obviously refill stations would be scattered until the technology is developed further.
Zseniális!!! Az elektromos egy hazug és rossz irány! Egyáltalán nem zöld! Hajrá belsőégésűek! Sok sikert AVL RACETECH!
Rather the world go hydrogen than electric. Best of both worlds, combustion and sustainability. Or at least I'd hope racing would go this route.
There's a high chance that you will find Hydrogen engines in motorsport because some racers are already putting these to the test.
The big drawback of hydrogen ICE is the efficiency, it's about 1/3 as efficient as an EV. And Hydrogen leaks out when stored, so you'll always have losses. It's necessary though, as some solutions can't get away from using ICEs.
@@TheSilverShadow17 You can't solve the issue with leaking hydrogen, the molecules are small enough that they'll get through solid metal. And over time the metal will get brittle. Fire and explosion risks are there, but since it's light, it barely spreads. So you get violent combustion, but not a whole lot more.
@@Celciusify it is correct that motor efficiency is better in a battery EV, however, when you look at the whole system including transport, transformation back and forth, charging, and loss in batteries you are moving pretty far away from that ideal number that EV fans always talk about. Especially when we are talking about generating that electricity in a caloric powerplant that burns coal or natural gas to heat water and then drives a turbine which in turn drives a generator, then sends it through a transformation station and into overland lines, through another transformation, into local grid, then to a charging station which converts it again. next the Car cuts it down to direct current to be stored in batteries, then transform it back to AC to run an electric motor. In Addition, you also have to consider weight. 3 or 4 Ton EVs with bloated SUV and trucks-bodies are not efficient. If you put all those losses together, suddenly filling any gas directly in a car, that's half the weight, makes a lot of sense. Especially in places that don't have the proper infrastructure to produce or transport electricity.
@@Mi-Chis Did you account for the losses when producing and transporting the fuel for ICE? The vast majority of Diesel/Petrol production use fossil fuels to power that process. You'll quickly see that it's much worse than powering an EV with a coal plant.
Love the fact that the video also addresses Electrolyzes, where it's not so widely known that AVL does Simulation, Testing and Engineering as well. In the end it's only clean and sustainable racing if the H2 is produced accordingly.
Every country should invest heavily in nuclear power and hydrogen infrastructure.
@@321findus Kyle Hill made a point about Nuclear energy being the safest option for power generation which says a lot in contrast to what's been feeding the power grid. Plus you have technological advancements making nuclear reactors safer and safer by the year, which implies that they're dozens of times less likely to undergo a meltdown than outgoing and older iterations.
im glad to see them using water injection. it makes hydrogen combustion completely clean (without the water injection, a hydrogen combustion engine would still make NOx emissions, even though its clean of CO2)
Learn about metal hydride, it can store hydrogen safely without high pressure necessary and store enough in 4 tanks about the size of a regular gas tank and theres a video by helmholtz zentrum and one by bob lazar where he made his own hydrate. Tho hydride is not dangerous it is illegal to sell (not illegal to make your own) and thous hydrogen cars haven't become available. Change the law.
@@someseriousname I’ll look into it, thanks man
What a ruddy good video. Great to see a hydrogen powered engine on song and producing mind boggling power. Hydrogen IS the way forward and i for one am looking forward to it.
That's awesome news. So glad to see it happening.
Would be awesome if they can make hydrogen kit for common tuner engines out there, it would help a lot of people and race guys go into hydrogen and then hydrogen powered series will start to spring up 🤩.
good job AVL for using water injection! that means they dont need ny emissions equipment on their engines. Hydrogen combustion by itself still makes NOx emissions and the water injection they put on the engine sprays water to lower the ignition temperature, therefore getting rid of the NOx emissions completely. this is truly the future!
awesome work, Nilton Diniz and team! All the best on the next endeavors.
There is a world for both.
Sure, dividing boys from real men
Maybe I've missed it, but how is the fuel stored? Is it pressured or liquid? If it's pressured, then race cars will have to be trucks to carry enough of it around. If it's liquid, well the fuel pump and fuel tank will be the tricky part. Don't get me wrong: I'm really happy that there is a lot of effort done to move technology forward, but with hydrogen, there are so many difficult challenges which needs to be managed first. There is a fantastic video from "Engineering Explained" - he is going into the details of the challenges.
Stored as a gas in tanks. In liquid form it would need to be chilled. Once this tech gets cracked the EV world will literally collapse.
the future is cyogenic at the moment we talk about 700 bar vessels. BUT the efficiency is at 42 % with this power, so no problem for a `normal` racedistance
@@louisfliegner7595 should be fine for road use too granted leakage does not become a big factor.
@@louisfliegner7595 Well, this is what Toyota did at the 24h of Fuji with their hydrogen Toyota corolla race car. The issue they had was the fuel pump. The extreme temperature changes broke multiple times the fuel pump which also had to be replaced after a couple stints multiple times.
@@cypcyphurra8755It boils down to the execution, but the concept has been around since the invention of the car.
Love that hydrogen engine a lot ❤
So how bad is the NOx content in the exhaust?
Hydrogen, even with its special challenges, makes a lot more sense than trying to totally switch to EVs.
I've heard about metal hydride, it can store hydrogen safely without high pressure necessary and store enough in 4 tanks about the size of a regular gas tank and theres a video by helmholtz zentrum and one by bob lazar where he made his own hydrate. Tho hydride is not dangerous it is illegal to sell (not illegal to make your own) and thous hydrogen cars haven't become available. Change the law.
I've always said since middle school and I'm 35 now, hydrogen was always the answer to our power needs until we can get to helium3 on the moon 😅🎉
Impressive work. Congratulations to the entire engineering team at this company for achieving impressive numbers. I hope to see it not only in racing cars but in urban vehicles... Because believing that an electric car will be the solution of the future, we are far from that. Unless Nikolas Tesla's project on the Wardenclyffe tower appears.
JCB Equipment has also designed a Hydrogen engine for their equipment. JCB says there Hydrogen engine, as compared to diesel, has 95% the power of a diesel engine. JCB tried EV technology. They advised it failed to empress clients. EV’s can’t work 16 hours a day, like many mines require of their equipment. Also, EV’s break with the constant stress on heavy equipment. So, Hydrogen is the future. The only challenge is Hydrogen stations are harder to set up than gas and Diesel stations. However, it can be done.
Luckily there are some companies out there that are investing in Hydrogen refill stations so hopefully the infrastructure builds up to a degree.
Amazing
My question is it a hydrogen combustion or is the hydrogen being used to heat the boiler(cyclinder) and the water injected and therefore a steam engine? I am thinking out loud but would like to know what other’s thoughts are.
Awesome now they need to make them for commercially available cars 😀😀
Fat chance if you mean the regular road car. Hydrogen is too expensive and one after the other the rare filling stations close.
@@flemlion13 i don't think the future of hydrogen cars is over just yet ..
@@DemonHunter0069 Despite all the money thrown at it, it is just not happening. There is no momentum, filling stations are closing, instead of becoming less rare like they would need to be. For niche applications like motor sport they probably still have a chance. For general use, I don't see a comeback possible.
@@flemlion13 we can only hope brother 🙏
@@flemlion13I've heard about metal hydride, it can store hydrogen safely without high pressure necessary and store enough in 4 tanks about the size of a regular gas tank and theres a video by helmholtz zentrum and one by bob lazar where he made his own hydrate. Tho hydride is not dangerous it is illegal to sell (not illegal to make your own) and thous hydrogen cars haven't become available. Change the law.
It would be interesting to know more about consumption and NOx emissions.
Gerhard looking professional as always 😂
Go Ellen! Good person to lead the motorsport area.
The fact they have modified a ea888 gen 3 from the vw group is so cool
Hydrogen > electric! ❤❤❤
When he said "Hot Valves" I thought he said "Hot Wives" as a little sneaky joke.
Very interesting. Working on Hydrogen generators for my vehicles. If they combine the DAE Panel and the high pressure that would be great.
Super!
Gotta go fast!
Ceramic combustion chamber surfaces??
Good
अति उत्तम
Check out Mike Copeland-he has the engineering team for race track or commuting to work with existing motor platforms!
For Hydrogen Fueling please Review Secure Supplies Hydrogen Hot Rodding
hydrogène combustion engine and Electric this Is the future for all
It’s cool but i have questions about the range. It’s a problem with hydrogen/ev cars, with the hydrogen/ice cars it should be 3 times worse. How many laps will the car be able to do at Le Mans before running out of hydrogen and water (but i guess the hydrogen is going to be the biggest problem)? Will it be safe to refuel the car or it may be safer to just change the tanks? How much will the car (with all the hydrogen stuff) weight? I’m not concerned about the power (even though 410hp and 505nm of torque is not that mindblowing from a turbocharged 2 liters engine) but about the rest: the range, the weight, the refueling. This is super cool though, but i would’ve liked more details about the consumption and the afr (or i should say afwr, air, fuel and water ratio) to try to understand better the engine.
It's not carrying water.
@@logitech4873 in the video they said they’re using water to cool down the combusion chambers from the enormous heat generated by the hydrogen flame front, distilled water, so i think it’s going to be used in the race car also.
Combustion phasing seems pretty late, but the variation looks to be pretty low... interesting.
The answer is pressure and vacuum different dynamic turbo OMEGA ✨ once you stretch obsolete pressure she will want to be alive and move any direction.
Fascinating! Hydrogen has a RON of 60-something, that's a pretty severe drawback when you want high performance. What they are achieving is very impressive, for a hydrogen combustion engine, kind of mediocre compared to a lot of engines in common production ICE vehicles can produce with some encouragement, and ridiculous compared to what they could achieve, much easier, and safer, with ethanol or methanol, and a lot of other fuels that can be supplied as sustainably as hydrogen, or better. Methane, which could come from biogas, or produced from hydrogen, could produce much better performance, easier, cheaper and safer. To put it into perspective, they manage to push just over 400 hp out of 2 liter displacement, in a highly controlled situation, while some F1 engines produced well over 1000 hp, from 1.5 liter displacement, with more regulations, limitations, and on the track, in the 1980s.
Water-based EGR system??
The real future for green vehicles! The cost of batteries and the amount of waste that will be created with old batteries that no one is talking about how they are going to deal with.
"that no one is talking about" Except very very many people are talking about it. Why are you pretending like it's not a common topic?
@@logitech4873 no actually they talk about all the jobs and the new factories to make batteries. No one is saying anything about how they plan to recycle or dispose of the batteries.
@@aaronwhitaker307 Try looking up lithium battery recycling. It's an industry that's scaling up, but needs to grow faster
@@aaronwhitaker307 Nobody is talking about it? It's literally an industry rebuilding and recycling EV batteries. What you MEANT to say was "nobody is researching how EV batteries are recycled and rebuilt".
Glad to see the development of H2 combustion engines picks up speed. Same leaque @BOSCH, but already in a race car: kzhead.info/sun/os19j6h8fqOhg5s/bejne.html
I expected it to sound like George Jetson's saucer-car. Can the exhaust melt your face like green nitromethane smoke? That'd be great!
I was really surprised to hear that they were using spark-plugs, if hydrogen is as volatile as they said it is.. it seems like they'd just, do like Diesel, and go compression ignition?
Probably can control the timing better with spark?
Gravity racing is the future of motor sport.
Great engine and great video. However, gaseous Hydrogen needs to be made on demand at the injector if it is to be viable. Super capcitors and sea water electrolysis...
That's a recipe for like 2 kilometers of range.
@logitech4873 ...there's a LOT of moving parts in a vehicle. Moving parts within stationary parts have a potential of creating electricity. Electricity, funnily enough, can recharge Super capacitors...thus extending range by literally 2, possibly 3 orders of magnitude given the size a water tank... Anyway, I'm sure based on your comment, you'd thought of all of this also...
@@TheGenXInnovator You haven't thought this through whatsoever. You'll spend all your electric capacity to create a few grams of hydrogen, then you'll burn the hydrogen, and... Oh yeah now you're all out of hydrogen, and you weren't able to gather enough energy to create more because it takes far more energy to create hydrogen than what you get from burning it. Please just sit down and try to do the actual math on this. It just doesn't work out.
@@logitech4873... so what's your solution for Hydrogen on Demand?
@@TheGenXInnovator Hydrogen filling stations.
No odorant so you won’t smell a gas leak. And you almost don’t see the flames. Really doubt this is safe for racing and consumers.
That's what additives are for.
@@Dre_The_Millennial Sadly there is no standardized odorant yet. That would be a good beginning.
@@Dre_The_Millennial It doesn't work like that. Hydrogen is the smallest possible form of normal matter, thus has the lowest density of any other substance. Hydrogen exists as a diatomic molecule with two protons and two electrons, and most molecules are orders of magnitude larger than that, including natural gas. Hydrogen, being so small and light, can escape through gaps that nothing else can, so how exactly are additives supposed to help if they can't escape along with it? Even if there was a leak big enough for the additives to escape as well, the lighter hydrogen would escape much before the heavier odorant would reach your nose.
You could have a simple computer monitored leak test done similar to a standard evap system on most cars to have the system check for leaks.
Finally
Quando arriva in commercio ?
Elon is not gonna like that this engines looks and sounds great and the engineer sounds like a skinny Shwarneger.
And obviously they went for a ea888 base setup 😅
Research about metal hydride, it can store hydrogen safely without high pressure necessary and store enough in 4 tanks about the size of a regular gas tank and theres a video by helmholtz zentrum and one by bob lazar where he made his own hydrate. Tho hydride is not dangerous it is illegal to sell (not illegal to make your own) and thous hydrogen cars haven't become available. Change the law.
400hp from a race engine? And the massive weight of hauling the hydrogen? The risk? This is not mathing.
Does this still produce NOx emissions?
Yes, you can't get perfect stoichiometry in the real world.
@@lenmetallicaHydrogen engines will release NOx emissions but since water is the predominant fuel source the emission is also water. (Obviously)
Hydrogen engines produce only a very small amount of Nox. It's barely anything.
Lots of torque vs hp, more like a diesel lol
Remember the Hindenburg.
Oh!; Forgot to remind everyone regarding our Atmospheric Oxygen: >Atmospheric Oxygen is roughly 21%. The other 79% is mostly Nitrogen + other gases. >Roughly 60% - 70% of Atmospheric Oxygen is actually produced by Phytoplancton, both, sea algae & fresh water algae + vegetation, AND these algae truly 'eat' CO2.. >Roughly 30% - 40% of Oxygen is produced by forests / Earth's flora. So, the vast & gorgeous forests are NOT our Earth's 'lungs'. Credits go to our vast and beautiful Oceans.. >Ergo: If we ELIMINATE CO2 is equivalent to shooting ourselves our feet
All lifeforms produce a trace amount of C02 and there's nothing we can do about it. Plants are no exception and neither are we. Carbon based life here on Earth will do this and has been for millions of years at the very least.
We can't "eliminate" CO2. The point is to stop releasing massive amounts of CO2 which upsets the natural carbon cycle.
@@logitech4873 We emit 40 gigatons CO2/yr. After oceanic absorption and plant photosynthesis 2.5ppm or .00025% or 1:400,000. If such a tiny amount can upset the carbon cycle in the vastness of the oceans and the atmosphere, I along with people like Patrick Moore, want to see the proof.
@@yasi4877 We've increased the global concentration from ~250ppm to ~400ppm. The consequences of this is well understood. I recommend you read up on climate change. Patrick Moore doesn't matter. He's not a climate researcher.
@@logitech4873 I'm not asking for your opinion I am asking for the proof. What have you got? Or should I mention that this is entirely political as stated by UN under-secretary general for global communications to the WEF that "ha, ha, ha and as you know, we own the $cience". Own = bought.
Jesus will see me in my Hydrogen/Electric hybrid Porsche slapping curbs like a madman, God bless everyone.
We get 30% + more horse power with our hydrogen on demand We have hard core data from real world data and labs around the world. The hydrogen that we make on demand is 4 times the energy than bottled hydrogen we make a % of monoatomic hydrogen been doing it for 16 years now.
Umm wheres the government contracts..to help?
Still no sound but i much prefer this over electric bs
You can hear at 4:55 it still produces noise because it works just like a normal ICE engine just with hydrogen as fuel.
Anything to keep us gearheads happy and satisfied at this point which I won't complain about lol
So I am no scientist, engineer or likewise, but how 'green and clean' can it be if it needs alarge kids paddling pool of water for it to work?
Judging from the complexity of this engine, it is going to be really expensive. Electric cars and better battery tech is the way forward.
FYI. Hydrogen is less dangerous than Diesel in an accident. Toyota did all these tests for their H car. In an accident, if there was a H leak, it is gone in seconds. If there is a gas leak, this stays around for hours and can start on fire.
Would rather see this than the forced EV that we are being moved too
👍🏿👍🏿👍🏿🏆🏆🏆👍🏿👍🏿👍🏿👍🏿🏆
i prefer electric over hydrogen engine Atleast i will not Blast at any cost 😂
Needlessly complex design and still makes the same amount of noise pollution. Just use EV, much more elegant and simple design, reduces noise pollution, cheaper to run in most places, and energy storage convenience will catch up eventually. Leave ICE for the track and racing, use EV everywhere else that commuter practicality is a requirement.
I freaking love hydrogen. But maybe that's because I live in a country that produces 98% of its energy fossil-free. 😅 IMO, batteries belong in things like e-bikes and smartphones, NOT a 5000 lbs car.
Green and sustainable Is Definitely no one's main goal, quit lying lol
Why tell lies ,tell me how hydrogen is compressed,,I I know with fossil fuels ⛽️ 😑
I hate noise, wouldn't it be better for the city environment if the vehicles are quite like ev?
No
That's much more efficient yeah.
No
Their motor is great but storing hydrogen is the trick. Hysata have improved electrolysis, maybe one day...