AM5+ Microcode, PCIe 7.0 Specs, Snapdragon X Elite & More | The Full Nerd ep. 296
Join The Full Nerd gang as they talk about the latest PC hardware topics. In this episode the gang covers the AM5+ socket potentially showing up in microcode (and why you shouldn't freak out), the newly announced PCIe 7.0 spec, Qualcomm's latest Snapdragon X push, and more. And as always we answer your questions live!
References:
- www.pcworld.com/article/22845...
- www.tomshardware.com/pc-compo...
- www.pcworld.com/article/22878...
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00:00 - Pre-show
07:43 - Intro
12:08 - Snapdragon X Elite
56:37 - AM5+ Microcode
1:06:33 - PCIe 7.0 Specs
1:23:14 - Q&A
#amd #qualcomm #podcast
Gordon just adds that extra spark to the show! Love to see him and I hope he is doing well!!
So good to see Gordon back. Keep up the great work guys. Thanks!
Gordon. It's good to hear you. About 45 minutes in, I stopped to write this because I had the thought that you sound more like your old self today. Hopefully that comes across as the compliment and with the sentiment that I mean it to.
Great to see you here Gordon. I hope all, but the best for you. =D
I'll watch every Full Nerd with Gordon in it
Todos trabajadores en @PCWorld están muy buena.
Great show again today with Gordon. Just so good to see him again.
Will comeback Gordon!! You are simply awesome!!
I woke up this morning with the sunlight shining in. I found my mind in a brown paper bag and then, I tripped on a cloud and fell eight miles high, tore my mind on a jagged sky, I just dropped in to see what condition my condition was in.
sniffing glue? i remember those bag heads lol
1:37:40 NAND has an optimal operating temp range, so too much cooling can be harmful or unnecessary for an SSD. Something Allyn Malventano brought up on a PCPer Podcast a few months back.
The reason why you want increased PCie bandwidth on consumer systems is to reduce the number of lanes and traces used on motherboards, to reduce cost. It allows you to achieve the same or higher bandwidth, with fewer electrical traces and lanes. They also always have to ratify, and then finalize, specifications and blueprints before it can go into production, so of course they are working on the specs for future generations right now, it takes time to deliver actual products once the specs are finalized, and 2025 is the finalized date.
surely everyone grasps that?
The big reason to move towards pcie6/7 is in datacenter/server/etc applications, where you're dealing with per core licensing. You retain the same effective bandwidth, but without the pcie lane count required.
My Snap-On Headlamp my Favorite right now. Best LED Hands free.
Benefits of pci-e gen6.0 and 7.0 is to have more m.2 slots but on х1 lines. Maybe 4-7 m.2 slots x1 on motherboard and other lines from cpu and chipse to the multiply pci-e x16 slots, one of them for GPU and another for aditional addon cards to up to 16 m.2 on x1 speed with gen 6 or 7.
We will have more cpus from other brands coming to PC, it will be great for competition. Hopefully we get at least Nvidia, Samsung, MediaTek, Intel and AMD CPUs. I think that will be amazing, it will be tons of competition which will develop PC CPUs even further. I think Apple will try to catch after couple of weeks.
Power and performance. Thats critical. It’s also big for handheld gaming devices. The only problem is that I doubt the will be able to pull it off. Software compatibility will be the main issue.
Surprised they didn't discuss utility of pcie 6/7 and gpus with built in m.2 slots. At that bandwidth we could basically have a raid 6 card built into the gpu (or any other interface relocated from board to card). (Well they did mention relocating cpu sarcastically though lol). Would have liked to hear their thought
Like 416, So Happy to continue to see Gordon in good spirits and fiery as ever. Awe, you got to go to Japan... lucky you, I would love to go.
Im still on AM4 PCI 4, it and its fast for games. I have no reason to upgrade at this point. A 2 to 3 year upgrade is unreasonable for many gamers.
im probably about every 7 years when last gen cards are sub 599 quid. im on am4 ryzen for 3 years, it feels like another 3 or 4 before i can afford a good am5 build. so kinda normal for me . of course upgrades are relative to what i had before so are still upgrades. then the games are ten quid each rather than 70 too, along with cheaper ram, drives etc etc.
Gordon's right, the PC will rule forever ;)
difference for Sky-X was addressable memory 128GB vs 256GB Quad channel
I like those conversations but... has anyone in it bothered even reading the 2-page product brief of the Snapdragon X Elite? Why coming up with statements like "Apple does her own GPUs which are, arguably, better than what's available in Snapdragon parts. Right?" Qualcomm Adreno Graphics (up to 4.6 TFLOPs)/Display/Video Processing Unit. It's a lot of wafer real estate. Memory: • LPDDR5x up to 8533 MT/s • 16-bit width x 8 channels Display: • Max. On-Device Display Resolution: eDP v1.4b, up to UHD120 HDR10 • Max. External Display Resolution: DP v1.4 - 3 displays, up to UHD60 HDR10, 2 displays 5K60 M.2 PCIe Gen 3 for Wi-Fi card and M.2 PCIe Gen 3 for cellular modem card USB Interface Type: 3x USB-C • 3x USB4, 2x USB3.2 Gen2, 1x eUSB2. No mention of Thunderbolt. There are no spare PCIe Gen4 lanes for a discrete GPU. The only Gen4 I/F is for the NVMe SSD.
Microsoft supported power pc on the Xbox 360. Apple also supported power pc a couple generations ago
snapdragon X Elite ❤❤
Ok. so I'm not a wierdo.. headlamp LED lights for PC building is the norm?!? I'm not alone! Cheers Rick
well what else, stick a light bulb in there?
Snapdragon X Elite 🚀🚀🚀🔋
Nice marmot.
Will looks like Sigmund Freud
Dang Adam, you are nailing the intros BUT you flopped the episode number AND you said "on the line" (its a joke from the movie "The Internship" (2013), when Vince's character kept saying "on the line" instead of "online")
1:08:35 More freeways is never the answer to traffic. Unless you're the US of A. Gen5 SSD:s make no sense on desktops, especially not for gaming.
its the answer if theres room
Gordon is beyond (pure breed)
pure breed? what do you mean?
Windows on arm will never work. With so much telemetry and phoning home windows is doing right now on x86 to subsidize the cost of the operating system, that stuff will just bog down the arm cpu. Let me pay for the arm windows os, keep me off your data gathering, makes sure directX works natively and let me run nvidia or amd gpu with no hiccups, and maybe I’ll switch over.
well..stated..its about support..chromebook 10y support is great, But what is windows on arm getting?
in my past there was the remix mini (arm/android/desktop)..and for basic browsing/email/yt/office..it was great, but support..
I want to know wills kids reaction to this podcast
news: Intel investigates why (Unreal Engine) games crash on 13th and 14th generation Core i9 processors
Honestly, microsoft need to optimize windows, depending wholly on hardware is dumb
No, trucks are not cool. No one should have one outside professional haulers. Even most of those could be vans with 4-bangers and not V8s.
trucks as in trucks, not lorries
Why do I think tablets died? Phones got huge. Who needs a 7" tablet when my phone is 6", therefore making the in-between tablet form factor useless.
many tablets over 10inch, galaxy tabs average over 11
I have several milkcart size lipo packs for my RC helicopters and cars, 12 cell 6000mah packs for my 1,5 meters heli, they haven't burned yet but... They're getting older and I'm going to offload them soon since the time to play is less and less .
My favorite game: Forsplosion
This is not live. We are not live. Are we live?
i live here
first
There's a HUGE difference between AM4 and 5. There's also a lot of concessions AMD had to make to develop 4 generations of CPUs of that one socket. But here's the rundown. AM4 is DDR4. AM5 is DDR5. AM3 was DDR3. AM6 is going to be DDR6. The TLDR, AMD was able to get away with 4 generations of CPUs on DDR4 partly because that's what was available, but also because moving from 1st gen to Zen 3 wasn't the huge difference there's going to be going from Zen 4 to Zen 7. The long form: With DDR6 going into limited production THIS year, how long does AMD want to wait before switching to DDR6? And part of that is how good do they want Zen 6 to be? And yes I'm sure the handful of people that might read this don't understand this point. But this is a problem that's more than just memory. I don't like Zen 4/AM5. Most people who are actually buying AMD right now are buying Zen 3/AM4 and I hope that means 500 series MBs with at least 2 NVMe ports. The problem with AM5 is related to AMD's MCM architecture which isn't good anymore. Zen 4 is too fast for the current MCM architecture, it will be TERRIBLE for Zen 6. The Infinity Fabric (IF) design was OK for Zen 2 - 3 because those were slower. The IPC was less and the clock speeds were about 1GHz slower. Having an IF to multiplex data to get it to the right place adds latency. If core 0 on core chiplet 0 needs data from core 0 on core chiplet 1, that data has to go from core chiplet 1, to the IOD, through the IF and then get passed to core chiplet 0. If the core chiplets need data from RAM, that data has to pass through the IF, any data that's coming from any device on the MB has to go through the IF before it can go to the cores. The IOD has all the control circuits for the I/O for the CPU. This is too slow now. Zen 5 is going to suffer because of this regardless of how good it looks compared to other CPUs. You can look at what AMD has to do with the chipset(s), where to get all the IO functionality that X670E has, AMD needs 2 X670 chipsets and one has to daisychain through the other. That SUCKS. That takes up back to before Zen and Northbridge-Southbridge. Intel can do the same with a single chipset. AND, Intel's CPU-chipset interface is 2X THE SPEED!!! Zen 6 is going to fix the MCM architecture. This is going to be a VAST improvement for Zen. This gets rid of the IF and there will be direct connects between chiplets(tiles). So, just looking at MEMORY, this means that AMD doesn't have to rely on the slow speed of the IF to get data from RAM, to an IOD, and then to a core chiplet. The cores will have a direct connect to the memory controller without having to go through an IF. This mean that memory access, which is limited now because of the IF speed REGARDLESS of having something like 7200 MT/s DIMMs, can improve, and not by a little, but a LOT. So, does AMD want to stick with DDR5 for Zen 6? If so, well, the IPC gains for Zen 6 are predicted to be 17 - 20% and the IPC gains for Zen 6 will be at least another 10% and the clock speeds will be similar to Zen 4. So, does AMD want to stick with DDR5 for Zen 6, when it's going to be about 30% better in JUST IPC vs. Zen 4? The Zen 4 cores already suffer from an effective memory speed of 3GHz because of how fast you can clock the IF. If AMD could show what they can do with DDR5 running at 8000 MT/s AND the data could actually get to the cores at that speed you'd see improvement, but they can't because the IF can only clock up to around 3GHz. In other words, Zen 4 is already capable of handling the better DDR5 memory kits on the market and get better performance, if AMD could somehow bypass their IF to get the data to the cores, but you know, that's impossible. Zen 6 WILL benefit if it could use DDR6. Zen 6 is going to benefit by having a much better MCM design. Zen 6 should have 2X the speed on the CPU-chipset interface. Zen 6 can probably run all the interfaces of X670E using a single chipset just like Intel can. What Zen 6 can't do is get all the performance it will be able to bring using AM5. Now, there are changes AMD can make with PCIe speeds, different interfaces using a newer AM5 MB. I'm sure they could double the CPU-chipset interface using AM5 with a new MB, just like what Intel can do right now using DMI 4.0 X8. For AMD they only need to move to PCIe gen5 for that link, although it would probably be easier to move to 8 lanes because the clock speed of that interface could run at half the speed, so PCIe gen4 X8 which is basically = DMI 4.0 X8. But AMD can't move to DDR6 with AM5. And while Zen 4 doesn't need it, and Zen 5 will be able to get away with using DDR5, Zen 6 is going to suffer performance hits using DDR5. This will show up in memory intensive apps like gaming the most. AMD can offset this a little by using a large L3 cache, but cache isn't a smart brain that tries to figure out what the cores are going to need. Cache saves data/instructions that have already been called up by the cores, so it's not the IDEAL solution. The IDEAL solution is being able to access RAM as fast as possible.
Microsoft isn't saying that they can beat Apple because they now have an ARM processor. It doesn't work that way. Microsoft has for YEARS been wanting to be a COMPLETE ecosystem like Apple, with all the big money benefits of Apple, completely controlling the ecosystem where you have to buy all software via the Microsoft Store and they can charge devs money which would also mean the death of free software. THAT is what Microsoft wants, to make GOBS of money off of having a closed ecosystem. NOW, with THAT context in mind, the best option for a company to make their own system is using ARM based processors because of the licensing agreements that can be made with ARM. It gives a hardware developer a lot of freedom to use a certain ARM processor and then customize it to make your own CPU design just like Apple did. Apple's ARM processor isn't great because it's ARM. It's great because of the YEARS Apple spent developing a custom CPU BASED on an ARM processor. Microsoft has for YEARS been working with ARM to try to emulate what Apple did. They haven't yet. An ecosystem that will compete with Apple has to consider EVERY aspect of the ecosystem, not just the hardware. The Windows ecosystem includes hundreds if not thousands of pieces of software and it includes hardware from the best companies in the world. THIS is the problem Microsoft has. Microsoft has to put something out that will compel people to give up an open ecosystem to get walled in and pay lots of money for a Microsoft ecosystem, and the only way you even BEGIN to do that is how Apple did, having worked years of developing a custom CPU so when people benchmarked the M1, it was winning at many things. But part of that victory was the development of acceleration into the CPU, and that's not a new thing anymore. They partially win now because of much better power consumption, but that's partly because they're on the cutting edge process node that TSMC puts out. They're a risk customer with TSMC, and they can do that because they don't put out server parts, or if they were to start they'd have to do the same thing AMD does, use a process node that's in its 2nd year of production. They can ALSO charge a lot more for their products, because of the Apple consumers being used to paying more for Apple products and that allows Apple to be on the most expensive process nodes. And then THIS gets to price and the hardest part to solve. Can Microsoft compete by using the cutting edge process nodes, ALSO being a risk customer with a company like TSMC which means a consumer will pay a lot for the products, to be walled into a Microsoft ecocsystem? So, they pay a LOT for the hardware first off, and then PAY to be walled into a Windows ecosystem where Microsoft makes billions while the consumer continually hands over their wallet to Microsoft, which is what Apple can do with their consumers. Well, I already run a dual OS system because of the invasion of privacy of Win10-11 and CERTAINLY 12 when it comes out. In fact it will use AI to try to get even more data about me, about every last click I make on my computer to build a very thorough profile on me and Microsoft will sell that info. There's no way in HELL that I'm buying into a Microsoft ecosystem. They've already shown who they are and I want no part of it, other than for my gaming system and I don't care that Microsoft knows my gaming habits. So that's what Microsoft is for me, a gaming platform and nothing else. I can use Linux to do anything else and I like different open source software packages more than I do Windows. I don't like Office for instance. It's cumbersome. I'd rather use LibreOffice or OpenOffice. It's easier for me. I have to do research when using Office every time I need to do a new thing with the editor. On the other hand with the olden day Menu bar I get very easy navigation to look for what it is I'm trying to do. Tabs aren't easy because you have to do a lot more searching for the function you're trying to do. Different functions are buried pretty deep into that tabbed interface.
it will prob be more cost effective for devlopers to be in the MS store than apple who kinda rip everybody off whereas MS has always developed for those businsses and many are already bought into their eco system with 365 etc
Seriously dude you're being snobby about Ralph's? It's a completely standard grocery store like Safeway/Von's and is Kroger's name on the west coast. It is light years from a "dollar store." Why is Will even on these videos, he doesn't know anything about tech or grocery stores apparently.
Someone working at Ralph’s I guess
Facts! Looks like a pity job
M1 is THE ONLY reason me and my friends prefer macbooks over windows laptops. I used to have an intel macbook pro (the last one made) it was trash. A new asus vivobook is far better than that.