Jocko Podcast Civil War Excursion With JD Baker Pt.1: Picking Sides
2023 ж. 14 Қаң.
64 899 Рет қаралды
Underground Premium Content: www.jockounderground.com/subs...
Join the conversation on Twitter/Instagram: @jockowillink @echocharles
Underground Premium Content: www.jockounderground.com/subs...
Join the conversation on Twitter/Instagram: @jockowillink @echocharles
Listened to first 6 on Spotify. Listening all over again. I don’t remember much of them because we played a game called Take a drink every time you hear “you know what I mean?” Otherwise as a lifelong Virginian, this has been the BEST breakdown I’ve ever heard of the civil war. 👏 please do this with the other wars.
I really wish I hadn’t read this comment…because now “you know what I mean” is all I hear lol
I can’t even listen to it now…
It really sucks because I was ready to binge these on a long drive. 30 minutes in and I was about to go crazy. You know what I mean
sic semper tyrannis, brother
The Confederate constitution provided for a 6 year term for the President. The next President would have been elected in 1867 and it could not have been Davis as they were only allowed to serve one term in office. *Edit and addition*An additional side note, Virginia voted three times to stay in the Union and did not leave until Lincoln ordered the Governor to raise the militia and invade South Carolina and the other Confederate states. The slavery issues was not enough.
There’s a lot of facts that are missing or omitted in this conversation. I’ll listen to Part 2.
It also banned the import of slaves.
It also banned a lot of the things we bitch about the government doing today. It was a better version of our constitution.
@@michaela.abbott222 It is a very broad topic, I happen to know a lot about VA's role because I was born and raised in VA. I am happy it is being covered on the podcast.
@@overhead18 The Rageaholic YT channel uploaded a video yesterday re: Abraham Lincoln that I believe you may find interesting if not validation for some of your thoughts. I’ll send the link if needed.
man JD is the kind of person all schools should have teaching history, i love his energy discussing this stuff
He basically is, steeped in propaganda and lacking knowledge of primary sources.
Magnificent. I hope I’m not preaching to choir. This basic American history is barely touched in current tax funded public school if at all. Besides being doomed to repeat if not educated to our past it is mandatory to move forward in a manner that guarantees our future survival. Your podcasts are on that favorable trajectory Jocko. They get better and better. And I learn something new with each presentation.
I though this was his worst show to date. Opening up a conversation about the american civil war with the topic of slavery is opening up a conversation about Afghanistan talking about afgani women's rights. Completely missing the point.
@@heavywatertr3ad I'm glad I wasn't the first to think this brother.
I love story time with Jocko, it's like Reading Rainbow.
Finally! I was wondering when you would deal with Civil War History. Thank you!
Listened to this podcast and now I'm rewatching/listening it again. Love listening to JD & Jockco talk about the civil war. High school kids need to hear this. There are so many young men and women that don't understand or know this history. Can't wait to listen and see the second part filmed and recorded on location.
All parts are great! Each episode is well delivered and engaging. Great chemistry between these two and I look forward to part 7 and onward…
This generally makes folks get upset with me, but the North had no issue buying cotton picked by slaves, they had no issue raising millions of dollars in tariffs on exported cotton picked by slaves for the federal government. And they certainly had no issue protecting their ability to buy cheap slave picked cotton from European competition by raising tariffs on southern cotton exported to Europe. there is a clue here which has a lot to do with why Charleston Harbor was such a big deal unless one is completely blinded to causes beyond the humanitarian "free the slaves" stuff. It is important to remember that Lincoln did not free the slaves in Unionist states with the emancipation proclamation and he said, in 1862, "“My paramount object in this struggle is to save the Union, and is not either to save or to destroy slavery. If I could save the union without freeing any slaves I would do it, and if I could save it by freeing all the slaves I would do it; and if I could save it by freeing some and leaving others alone I would also do that.”
I can tell your interested in history, and read
Yeah, but they did. So…………………… what? The secessionist objective was to continue slavery into the 1900’s. You okay with that concept?
@@silverstar4289 That is a silly question that avoids the issue I presented, which is the North was perfectly willing to profit off slavery and to institute tariffs which made it very expensive for the South to export cotton to it's competition. Do you not see the issue here? Slavery was perfectly fine until it no longer was going to supply cheap cotton and tariff profits to the Federal government.
@@overhead18 Tariffs tax imports, not exports lol.
@@gabrielschultz89 I am not going to waste much time explaining how this works to you on the youtube comment section, but I suggest you start with the nullification crisis, why the south was upset about Federal tariffs and maybe sometime about thinking very deeply about how restricting the import of manufactured goods from Europe might upset southern cotton farmers. I realize I am likely wasting my time here, but I figured I would give it a shot. I will even give you a hint, why would a producer of raw materials care about the ability of the buyer of that raw material's ability to sell to as many customers as possible and to not be restricted by another purchaser of that same raw material? I am certain you can noodle this out.
Great series. One correction on this episode, Harper's Ferry happened in 1859. So, Captain Lee was actually a Lt. Colonel at that time and thus not so much younger at the age of 52. Stuart was a 1st Lieutenant at the time and 26 years old at the time, so that's accurate.
Was wondering about this! Was like that doesn’t quite sound right
I’m a born and raised Marylander, the divide between rural Maryland and the cities of Annapolis and Baltimore is still a big thing. Those two cities pretty much run our entire state. As a Conservative Libertarianish person, we get out numbered 4:1 here. Even in Western Maryland, I live in Southern Maryland the other red part of the state
Getting chills hearing Jocko reading the first sentence. This is going to kick ass.
Take a drink every time he says "Know whadda mean"
Drink a Jockofuel everytime JD says ' you know what I mean? '... I see what ir doing here Jocko...😉
Had the pleasure and meeting JD at EF's Gettysburg Battlefield Review. So excited that this is happening as JD is an amazing teacher. I will never forget when he got on the same rock as Joshua Chamberlain from the 20th Maine and explained the battle of that day. The 20th was responsible for the far left flank that day. Had they faltered, it very well could've changed the outcome of the war. JD's knowledge is amazing as is his ability to bring this story to life. Cannot wait to get through this series!
This episode needs to be renamed: “Ya know what I mean”
😂
I can’t stop listening to this series!
Love how you guys are going about it, neutral with reverence for American history
"All machines have their friction, but when friction has its own machine you need that machine no longer." wow
The Real Lincoln by Thomas J Dilorenzo is a great read about this
I would also recommend Lincoln As He Really Was by Charles Pace
I would love a revolutionary war, and WWI series that have the same explorations of the facts and characters. This is gold
Back for fourth round of this series fire it up
Love this series on Gettysburg. JD has a really good storytelling voice.
So stoked for these🎉
Listened to all 6 of these in a row last week, WERE RUNNIN IT BACK BABY
Keep up the good fight Jocko.
This podcast series will be my drinking game for my squad. “Know what I mean”.
I can't listen to it because of know what I mean. Its driving me batshit crazy and I'm only 15 min in.
Part 2 I need
Lee was a Colonel (not a Captain) and in overall command of the troops sent to Harpers Ferry to put down John Brown
This is going to be a good one.
As a Georgian whose family has been here since 1820 I disagree with his take on the Indian Removal Act. A lot for Colonists felt betrayed by the Cherokee and others since they sided with the British in the War of 1812.
THIS GUY MADE ME WANT TO DRIVE OFF THE ROAD.....YOU KNOW WHAT I MEAN.
Stopped listening
@@budgibson185 I did. Thanks for telling me what to do
Great subject. Always been a “Greatest Generation” and a WWll fan…it’s just recently I started reading deeper into Civil War History. Recently reading up on Battle of Antietam which was the single most bloodiest day in American history with over 22k dying that day. It was after this battle Lincoln announced the Emancipation Proclamation.
The Rageaholic just uploaded a great video on Abraham Lincoln. KZhead channel...
Go read the Emancipation Proclamation, slavery was not abolished in all areas of the USA.
@@requited2568 It only abolished slavery in the states that were succeeding however its still important because it officially marked when the Union went from fighting to preserve itself to fighting to abolish slavery
@@jerrysmooth24 they needed bodies, some individuals believed they were fighting to free slaves but that was not the case, as can be seen by their treatment by the North when encountered in the south. There are also multiple assessments from European interests and the worst areas to be a slave were in the North.
@@requited2568 The north was horrifically racist yes just look at the New york draft riots but the confederacy was unequivocally worse for example Colored troops that were captured by the confederacy would be shot immediately for "servile insurrection" and the white officer would be hanged also The Emancipation Proclamation wasnt just a recruiting tool because as you said there was a lot of racism in the north however the civil war was directly responsible for the 13-15 amendments which gave millions of black Americans basic rights and made the US closer to a actual democracy.
It is very good to know history.
I keep hoping I’ll have a chunk of time to focus on this, because I’m weak on civil war history. Finally figured out to catch as catch can and just see what I can make of it.
Great discussion....Let's start another one yall!!
I love this Stuff; I'm going Underground soon after paying my Dues to Society.
John Browns body was thrown to the hogs in a pen in an alley behind the Charlestown court house
The Pigs deserved better
"If I could save the Union without freeing any slave, I would do it; and if I could save it by freeing all the slaves, I would do it; and if I could save it by freeing some and leaving others alone, I would also do that.” Abraham Lincoln Though morally, an abolitionist, as a president his goal was to preserve the union. When that fell apart, he did what was morally right.
You ignore his comments on “the negro” to Your detriment. He was no pure hearted abolitionist. He was a man, and like all men, he had flaws.
@Gene Wells the term that everyone used for someone from Africa at the time is your evidence? The word, although now offensive, was used much like Latino is today. I actually am a History Major. Don't get that degree btw haha
@@donquixote812 no, he is referring to Lincolns thoughts on the negro. You can read his letters and some of the bills he worked on and voted for, with his even some of his commentary on record available in online government archives and other historical sites.
@@requited2568 name one thing lol
@@donquixote812 Abe was an authoritarian to his core. When he was in the senate, he explicitly was for expanding the federal government. When he was president. he gave more powers to his office than the king of England at the time. The guy was a tyrant. The entire reason why the south wanted to leave the union was the fact that Lincoln imposed heavy taxes and Tariffs on the south. He didn't care about slavery. He cared about federal expansion. He jailed and deported all journalistic opposition that wrote negative stories about him. As a result, he unilaterally armed fort Sumpter (an act of war) and massacred innocent civilians at Meridian.
I am so interested in this topic except it’s really hard to hear “you know what I mean.”
I'm getting more out if this than high school. It's great!
No I don't. That's why I'm listening.
Oh, you're talking about the first one. I thought you were wargaming CW II.
The reading of SHERMAN’s correspondence is brilliant. Uncle Billy!
EXCELLENT
love this
as for sherman's quote, the same could have been said in the revolutionary war, no one expected the colonist's to win.
*Jocko Willink is the Reluctant Leader we need.* .....We know you've done enough, but your Nation needs you. 🇺🇸 *2024* 🦅
It wasn't that the north could build a locomotive and the South couldn't even make cloth or shoes. The South did have a prosperous manufacturing sector before the war. Making cotton and wool cloth, iron and steel manufacturing, gun and farm equipment manufacturing. The South could and did have the infrastructure to make anything the north could. The difference was the sheer scale of northern manufacturing capabilities compared to the south made it look like the south didn't have manufacturing abilities. Plus the capture and occupation of New Orleans and the majority of Kentucky and Tennessee early in the war didn't help the Confederacy's situation none
Number one way to start the morning
😂 No
The thing that is maybe left out of the conversation about the American Civil War often, about the decades of the 1850's and 1860's. Is the extent to which by that time in Europe, it was not individuals such as 'the pilgrims' or these renegade factions, and obscure splinter groups. That had first created the colonies in north America. That are getting on to ships and going to the new world. It is rank and file ordinary folk who are showing up there instead. Richard Dreyfuss the actor was speaking on an interview lately, and he spoke about the speech that new arrivals would receive before disembarking from ships in New York harbour then (Dreyfuss explained the time when the practice was discontinued in the early twentieth century). Where an individual from Tammany Hall arrived aboard and explained about jobs, housing and voting. To the new arrivals then.
It's important to consider that only a decade before the American Civil War the population of countries such as Ireland had peaked at over eight million people (at the time that the Confederacy States voted at Montgomery to bring this new mid-nineteenth century country into being, that lasted for four years before Jefferson Davis was captured, and that new mid-nineteenth century country ceased to be any longer). The combined population of all of those succession States back then. Wasn't any more than ten million people, if even that. By the nineteen fifties in Ireland. The population on the island had dropped to almost three million people and it struggled to recover. From the events of the Irish potato famine and the various wars it had fought against the British. Of a century before then. The point is that, if you added up the population contained in all of those southern States of America (former members of the Confederacy), by the nineteen fifties decade. What population number would that come to by then? And bearing in mind, in those same southern States of America in the nineteen fifties decade. You are about to enter into a period in American history and American politics. That has many echoes from what had gone before, a century earlier. The point though, is that the populations of countries like Ireland never recovered again (it's population was used as a source for labour and human resources that was used to supply Australia, American, Canada and most of the commonwealth). While at home the country had become empty.
When one thinks about the colonial wars the British empire fought, and the American revolutionary period of the 1780's decade. One has to think about that. The last and ultimate major uprising that had happened in Ireland (the last decade of the 1500's and first of the 1600's was the big one, where the Gaelic organization made a last stand). The year of 1798 was the last big uprising that ever happens in Ireland. And the point is, these are the kinds of wars that the British are able to prosecute very well. Where you have very large populations of people contained within quite small amounts of territory. And the British superior capabilities on land and at sea are brought to bear in the fight. What the British had encountered in America. Was in lots of ways the opposite to that. These weren't people who could not organize (the revolutionary army on Washington's side). And the landscape was absolutely vast. The population in the thirteen colonies at the time of the revolutionary war was sparse. It was difficult to find Washington's army. Even in places that we think of now as being 'dense urban'. Places such as Long Island or New Jersey State. Back then, Washington's army led the British side a merry dance around those places. And the British side failed to stamp out the rebellion. That was not the case in Ireland in 1798, a similiar situation where rebellion broke out in several places on the map. The map however was much smaller, and the population more dense. And the British 'silver' currency went much further. In terms of buying out informants and information. That the British then used to stamp out insurrection much faster than they could otherwise. In the thirteen colonies in the 1780's decade, the same could not be said.
A good example of it would have been Barrack Obama's forefather, who left a place in Tipperary in Ireland in the 1860's decade in which the Civil War was happening. And arrives in New York harbor the same as lots of other people did then. Making his way in due course to States in the mid-west such as Ohio and Indiana. Where eventually they settle down and begin to farm the land there. It was not uncommon in those days I would think (this was the same landscape of mid-west Illinois State, in lots of ways still a frontier place at that time, out of which Abraham Lincoln had come out of). To live and work in the rural landscape of those mid-western States. And meet all kinds of people who had been born and grown up. In parts of western Europe that you grew up in yourself. And everyone found themselves for some reason. At that time and place, doing the same thing in the same way. And it was a brand new future. Put oneself in that state of mind. Of the recent member of a family who had arrived in America and traveled to that frontier place. And one was asked to serve in Sherman's army then. One of those sixty thousand soldiers who had survived earlier battles. And marched from the Mississippi to Atlanta Georgia. And from Atlanta Georgia on towards the Atlantic ocean. And made one's way north towards South Carolina. At the time that Lee's thirty thousand men and carvan trains were tying to find a back door from Richmond in Virginia. To re-assemble with some remnants of some other army that existed down south. Until it got to the point at which Lee said 'no more'. And agreed to talk about terms with his opposite general Grant. One cannot look at the Civil War period either from a totally American focused perspective. The hint was provided at some stage in J.D. Baker's conversation with Jocko. Four score and ten years. The country at that point, was extremely young. It didn't know what it wanted to be. Or how it would go about that. It was all up for grabs back then. In almost every conceivable way or fashion.
Jefferson Davis is far more complex than is portrayed here. He was not pro-secession and had no desire to be president of the Confederacy. His wife wrote about his disparity at being elected. Davis served as Secretary of War and designed the Capitol building in Washington. He’s a very complex character.
He also wanted a field command position over holding office. There's a lot more to him than what's covered here.
How is this guy commenting on the War Between the States and he hasn't read anything by RE Lee and his reasons for not turning his back on the state of Virginia.
Is there a main book they are reading from or various ones?
What a brilliant podcast
What does he mean??
He means he failed to go to primary sources and only read the "approved" books.
If you ain't 1st ya last ,shake n bake baby!
Isn't saying we were the last to give up slavery a deceiving straw man argument, because slavery continued in many countries after the Civil War? Is still practiced today.
No shit, obviously when that is said, what is meant is that governments no longer have slavery as an institution. Need everything spelled out for you? As long as there is free will and human beings, you'll have every single thing that's possible to be done being done.
The south's economy was the fourth largest in the world. At the time the United States relied on tarrifs to fund the government. This was a substantial amount of revenue. The emancipation proclamation didn't free a single slave in northern held territory. Furthermore west Virginia was admitted into the union as a slave state. Lincoln admitted that his intention was never to abolish slavery. His goal was the victory of the union. He was also a tyrant who gave emergency war powers to himself instead of congress which is unconstitutional.
We didn’t walk down a wrong road we went down a sad road… For the United States we failed by losing our rights. God bless the South and the American Dream.
The South Will Rise Again! Freedom will eventually prevail.
JD “Know What I Mean” Baker….
"You know what I mean".🚬
I think most people don’t realize the devotion to states over federal in that time. We have a tendency to view the civil war with modern day glasses
Exactly. That’s something almost always excluded. Your state was your country, more so that the US was. RE Lee famously said that he was disgusted with slavery but had to fight for his home of Virginia.
Im currently reading "Grant" by Rob Chernow. Very good book centered around US Grant, Civil War and Reconstruction. If you enjoy the topic, you might still be able to find the audiobook (free) on youtube.
GREAT book!
...you know what I mean
Y'all should watch historical controversies civil war on KZhead from mises media
I'm 11 minutes in and this dude has said "youknowwhatimean" exactly like that 27 times. Just said it 3 times in the last 10 seconds! Echo needs to tell this guy to settle down. Know what I mean?
This is great information but the “likes” and “you know what I mean” is a little maddening.
True true
This episode is a dud and lacking any info and context from Primary sources, the rest should be ok as there are less narrative involved and most now accept just how degenerate parts of the Northern army operated.
I wanted to listen to the whole thing but had enough after about 20 minutes. “Ya know what I mean??”
Jacko should bring on Michael malice, Tom Woods. Because the Civil War was far more complicated, a subject than the black and white portrayal that the textbooks sold us in elementary school. Frankly the subject being as interesting and broad as the country itself was at the time because it was a decentralized country. Lincoln did not necessarily free any of the slaves within his control, moreover it was not his top priority through the chorus of his administration. Likewise, he had situation‘s such as Lysander Spooner, where are you could be anti-slavery, but against the Civil War it’s sad that such an interesting point in history that we treated it like cartoon characters.
Reconstruction never ended
“Know what I mean?”
So let me get this right...Basically the gist of this episode is a group of "Indentured Servants' get shipped to the 'New World" (aka The Colonies)...The "Colonist" get pissed and eventually for a host of reasons call it quits and dump the "Crown" that originally sent/ (Banished) the "Indentured Servants" to the "Colonies", who eventually gain their "Independence"....Then the same "Indentured Servants/ Colonist" set up house and eventually evolve into the" Neo-Crown" crew by "adopting and incorporating some of the systems and methods" of "The Old Crown" and single out a whiole nother group of folk (Neuvo-Indentured Servants/Slaves/ Native Peoples) and the "Neo-Crown" crew does the same thing that was historically done to them...I know it's an over simplification of a much more complex series of events, but I just wanted to get the gist of it...I think I did.!
I haven't watched it yet. But the side I pick is the side of protecting my rights and my immediate family. I was never in the military but I don't want to become the type of person I would have to become to guarantee my children's and my survival in a civil war. Anyone who hopes for a CW to happen doesn't grasp the full context in which there will be more victims than bodies on the battlefield. It will bring the worst out in people. Sexual predators will take advantage of the chaos. There won't be many people you can trust. If the government chooses a side it will only make things even worse and at that point, it will justify the actions of the people they side with.
Where the second half?!?!
Just a simple retired Army guy. Nothin special. Thank you.
Y'all need Atun Shei.
Interesting takes on John Brown
Ernest P. Worrell has entered the podcast. Know what I mean, (Vern)?
You know what I mean?
And don’t forget the Articles of Confederation debacle immediately after the war. It wasn’t until the second constitutional congress that we got what we have today. #1791
England did quietly support the Confederacy And supplied them with weapons and material
The South didn't need to manufacture cannons, muskets, etc. I'm pretty sure the French were supplying them. Kind of like Ukraine if you're willing to fight it seems like there's always someone willing to supply you for their own benefit.
Can someone please tell me “what he means” for Gods sake!!!! Don’t wanna drink just to “know” for crying out loud!!! he-he. Amazing series YAY Jocko!!
unfreedom of the press by mark levin good book
13:34 Jefferson Davis was picked because he was a soft spoken moderate and had a decent track record with West Point and being a lawyer and statesman of Mississippi aswell as previously being the head of the department of war. His speech on his resignation from the senate is very articulate and I think shows why he was elected kzhead.info/sun/f9myib2mq3Wfd3k/bejne.html
Lee wasn't a Captain during John Brown's raid.
I think racism as a motivation, for people like Lee, is underplayed in this discussion. It's not just "we need labour for our huge farms", there's also a belief that white people are superior, and that black people are literally subhuman, and that the best thing they can be is subservient to whites, slavery was held up as not just neccessary, but morally good. That mattered. I didn't hear it mentioned here.
Redundant, you know what I mean? Great episode regardless
Where the fuck is part two? Waiting to finally give up until I can listen to them.
Funny how the plantation never disappeared. It only changed names. Now it’s government/corporate relations ~ you know what I mean?
I live 1 mile as the crow flys to the last home of Jefferson Davis and forget the history that took place where I am....
There is still resentment over that war in the south.
Never knew JD lived in Spotsyltucky
I don't think the average American had or even wanted slaves . I think it was a small group of people who owned and bred a lot of slaves . I don't think things went down the way they were written officially by our government .
South Carolina started that war ?
it was tefist stateto susceed outof the union
U.S. Senator Jefferson David’s farewell address.
The reason why slavery was banned in Europe has nothing to do with the extreme immorality of slavery, it had to do with North African muslim Barbary pirates raiding and enslaving millions of Europeans living along the coast throughout Europe for centuries. Look it up.
👍🏻👍🏻👍🏻👍🏻👍🏻
Slavery was not even an issue... It was revenue and empire. Lincoln said so himself
Don't know JD Baker. Is he academic or journalist or?
Jocko did a podcast with him on an earlier episode; a former marine