How do you lose something as big as a pyramid?
Chapters:
0:00 Introduction
1:49 Herodotus the Traveler
5:41 The Ceaseless Footsteps of Time
7:51 The 2400-year-old Mistake
Special thanks for Sanstitre ( / sanstitre2000 ) for the fantastic reconstructions of the Biahmu Colossi!
Citations
Hartwig, M. K. (2014). Sculpture. A Companion to Ancient Egyptian Art, 189-218. doi.org/10.1002/9781118325070...
Herodotus. (2015). The histories: (Penguin Classics Deluxe Edition). (T. Holland, Trans.). Penguin Books.
How, W. W., & Wells, J. (1989). A Commentary on Herodotus. Oxford University Press.
Hewison, R. Neil (2007). "Al-Ṣanam". Fayoum: History and Guide. Cairo, Egypt: American University in Cairo Press.
Herodotus openly admitted that he recorded what people said more often than digging for deeper facts, because he was keenly interested in the stories people told. In essence, Herodotus wasn't the world's first historian, he was the world's first folklorist.
And that is pretty much how history was told back then. Unlike today, facts and fiction weren't separated. Long before writing stories were told from person to person. And since storytellers tend to embellish a bit, over thousands of years things got a bit exaggerated. In most historical reports is a piece of truth and a lot of flavour to make the truth seem more amazing.
Recording what people said is pretty much the definition of a historian. you cant expect him to be a historian in the modern sense.
@@Dulc3B00kbyBrant0n He was more a folklorist than a historian. There's a difference in methodologies.
@@cheezemonkeyeatertoday. Stop thinking like someone born yesterday.
@@gianni_schicchi Start thinking.
I like to imagine the guides also telling him that the whole lake was dug by hand, they were like “yeah man this whole lake was dug completely by hand” and Herodotus was just like “Wow that’s incredible, I’m gonna put that in my book”
Absolutely legendary!… though I’m more inclined to believe in multiple sources of minor error over an insane game of telephone. Big H couldn’t read hieroglyphics… but how well did he understand his guides. How well did they understand the hieroglyphs… not insane to see “natural lake that was later reshaped my humans” becoming full on Man made. Maybe miscommunication in combination with “laziness”led to many of these confusing errors. (even though he had no obligation to do any of it and calling it lazy is fucked).
I like to picture them telling him that and then snickering amongst themselves while he excitedly writes it down
tour guides will never change
He wrote after the fact. And measurements were NOT in feet /inches as we know that measurement today.
@@laara1426 Yeah people dont know that measurements were so many in these times. Each city state for example had its own. They were different from region to region pretty wildly.
Would be very cool to see a series chronicling Herodotus' various wild claims and how they relate to ancient mythology and contemporary archeology.
👀 I may or may not have plans to do that exact subject…
@@TREYtheExplainer 👀👀
Maybe if there actually turns out to be anything "wild" about them in the first place - the fact he gave some wrong figures on the size of pyramids he didn't measure himself and believed locals, when they told him a natural lake was manmade, aren't really overwhelming by the common standards of ancient histories...
Seems like so much of our mythology comes from people being honestly mistaken. That's why it's so hard for me to take any religion at face value, it just seems so much more likely to me that people were wrong when writing down these ancient stories rather than supernatural events actually happening. 🤷♂️ at least there doesn't seem to be people telling me that I should believe these pyramids existed exactly as described.
@@TREYtheExplainer 👀👀👀👀
It’s really endearing that even 2000 years ago tour guides were embellishing stories to their visitor
And people believed them. Timeless.
Egyptians been taking credit for somone else's work for a long Time.
Herodotus really did just write things down. Absolutely based I wish I could get away with not fact checking properly.
End then having everyone quote you, cherry picking all the way.
"Trust me bro"
Herodotus is the Chad of all Chad, I wish I had the same level of confidence as him
the perks of being a primary source
"yeah so I bet there'll be a bunch of pagans who commune at this oracle called reddit in 5000 years, lets just carve a dude with a sheep's ass for a head just to fuck with them lol"
It's actually very humbling to realise that a lot of Egypt's incredible wonders where already a thousand years old when this greek guy 2000 years ago went to visit. Just... the amount of time, the stories, the people. This channel always makes me want to travel back in time to see some of these places and people on their prime.
A lot of them are a lot older than that. The pyramids at Giza were older to Cleopatra in her life than she is to us now.
the Sphinx is so old that it was re-discovered by a Pharaoh of the later dynasties, after it was completely buried under the sand and more or less forgotten.
why not 2001 years ago
Some were close to 3000 years old
Given the pyramid of Giza were built at around the 2500's BC if my memory doesn't fail me, it would mean that by the time of Herodotus, they were already 2000 years old
It's insane that the Pyramids were already ancients in Herodotus time! We're still closer to him than he was to the Pyramids in his time - CRAZY!!!
Yep, that is nuts.
You’re not very good at math
Las tres p iramides son megaliticas. El resto de las step pirámides son copias
You and I are closer to Cleopatra in time than she was to the people who built the pyramids. The people who built the pyramids would be even more ancient Egyptian than she is. Wow
The land was called kemet not Egypt , the Greeks came up with the name Egypt around 330B.C. Most information we know on Ancient kemet comes from Greek translation of Ancient African scripts
One thing that’s important to note is that it’s very hard to judge distance and scale across featureless expanses of water. We typically rely on objects in the distance to help us interpret both. If I see a tree the size of an acorn on a hilltop to the east, and one the size of a barley grain to the west, I can guess the eastern hill is probably closer. I can also judge the size of a temple on either hillside in reference to the trees around them. This is impossible when what you are looking at is two large statues on a featureless lake-something the original architects probably knew, and might even have been counting on. I also wonder if, after many years, Herodotus just remembered poorly?
The original writing says the pyramids were mostly submerged.
@@attilamarics3374 Hi Attila. I'm sorry, but I don't really understand what you're getting at here.
@@michaelbacon5278 They said its in the middle of the lake, and the egyptians said that most of it is under the water to Herodotus.
@@attilamarics3374 I know. I don’t really understand what you’re trying to communicate. Is there something about my comment you’re agreeing/disagreeing with?
@@michaelbacon5278 I just added to it.
He has returned!!!
He always does.
@@pius857Why do people always say that? Sometimes people just don't make videos for a while. It's not like they left. They're still here. Shut the fuck up about it and just take what you're given
his last video was like two months ago 💀💀💀 honestly it wasn't that long of a wait
@@formersamonellaclone Trauma.
soyboy comment
Wonderful presentation. Africa is home to many megalithic structures that deserve more attention.
Hello there north!
I subscribe to both of your channels, what a small world
It's always lovely to see the KZheadrs we watch being part of the audience for once
Word! You mean actual people from Kemet, built their structures? Lol 👍👊🏿
DUDE YOU TWO SHOULD COLLAB, THAT WOULD BE AMAZING!!!
It's a testament to how skilled Egyptian engineers (and those in other societies) are that even the real structures, a fraction of the size of what Herodotus exaggerated, are still so impressive. If they still existed today, they'd likely still be a huge attraction, and rightfully so. I'd certainly drool over a 60 foot tall monumental sculpture of Moctezuma or Pacal if that still existed in Mexico today.
This is one of my favorite parts about history. The humanity of just getting something wrong because you're lazy is it's always something that would happen in the modern-day.
its pretty obvious people are picking on Herodotus because hes one of the sources used to support Jesus's existence and resurrection. Now you know
@@Dulc3B00kbyBrant0n he lived 500 years before jesus?? he's closer to the events of the old testament
@@Dulc3B00kbyBrant0n people were picking on him in his own time, hundreds of years before Jesus lived. I also think it’s unwarranted, by the way.
Herodotus's Histories are a fascinating mix of truth, sort of truth, exaggeration, misinterpretation and straight up lies. You get everything from the history of the Persian Empire to dolphin rides to gold digging ants. It definitely reads like a collection of anecdotes Herodotus collected from random people in his travels. Which is also why it's a pain to read.
Fitting for the Father of History to have lies mixed with truth in his accounts, as that has remained persistent in historical accounts.
So they aren't ants, but there are I think they are called marmots these gopher things that exists in that region who do tend to kick-up gold dust as they burrow and there are stories in the area of folks gathering gold dust from the spoil in days gone by and I can't substantiate it but I have heard that the Persian route for marmot literally means something like mountain ant so I think he was telling the truth there. On the other point dolphins tend to be quite social with humans and they are well aware that humans suck at swimming so there are modern reports of folks occasionally getting rescued by dolphins so I don't think it's unreasonable to except that he had probably heard one true account of that happening.
The thing is it's exactly the type of stuff you expect out of an ancient writer.
@@johncollins211 I also expect that from modern writers as well. Just look at how many lies were mixed in with actual truths for things that happened just a year or so (or lets say yesterday), much less what happened millennia ago.
In a way, he was the most trustworthy historian ever, because he didn't omit anything. My man had what he was told about the place to work with, and by Olympus he was gonna write it. My favourite case of him actually speaking the truth is about the number of Athenian casualties at Marathon. Which were 192. and we know that, because there is a mass grave monument there. Awesome.
The Egyptian pyramids and the culture around it are fascinating. I’ve been invested ever since the tutanchamun museum was near me. If you ever get the chance to go there you should take it!
not sure if you are aware of the channel, but check out ancient architectures for interesting stuff from a non mainstream angle
The Cultures around these Ancient civilizations were deliberately destroyed by Abrahamic Religions and Communists..! 💀🗿💀
@@GTAjunkie99 angle*
Bonn so um 2004? 😂
WOOOOOOO
I never understand how you can have such an air of professionality while at the same time use 21st century memes, and somehow still feel compelling enough for me to take all of this seriously. I don't know if you edit your own videos or if you have an editor, but big props to whoever's doing the editing.
Came for the pyramids, stayed for your humor. Thank you for your making me laugh so much 😂
While the pyramids of Lake Moeris didn't exist in the way Herodotus described, one interesting lost Pyramid yet to be found is that of Merikare, a king of the 10th Dynasty during the First Intermediate Period. We know he had a cult as we have priests up to the 12th Dynasty still venerating him, but we still have no idea where his pyramid actually is! Aside from that pyramid fact, great video as always :)
Do you think this could become his next video? I'm very curious 🧐
@@JoseDaPrimo who knows, all I know is that it's the era that's going to be the focus of my Thesis when I start my masters in egyptology haha
We have an idea, it's probably near the pyramide of Teti, in Saqqara, as all the priests of Merikare were also priests of Teti ^^ It's just that we haven't found yet the remains of his pyramid, so there's probably not a lot to found ^^'
@@krankarvolund7771 yeah we do have an idea that is in the area, and while it may not be a lot it will be important as it would be one of the few Heracleopolitan royal burials actually found
@@billywarren007 Yes, it would be important, it's always important to find new egyptian sites ^^ I just wanted to say that we don't have a great pyramide lost in the desert, Egypt have so much "mystery" and clickbait around her history, I think one should stay as factual and precise as possible, otherwise people just seems to lose their mind about that country's past ^^'
Bronze age Egypt is such a fascinating culture because their Art and Culture Religion etc. seems so truly ancient and otherworldly
To be fair to old Herry, it's especially difficult to judge the height of tall things by sight alone because there's no parallax (eyes are side by side) and we can't see details at a distance (including up or down). I recently studiously estimated a waterfall at 90 ft... which is measured at over 150.
I've been a fan since 2016 and I'm happy to see that you're still uploading! Keep it up!
I can't explain to you what I'd give to be able to walk through Egypt during the New Kingdom. Ride a horse or a camel through a little village, look at the produce and the pottery, dunk yourself into the village's watering hole, eat dates and drink fresh water from the well, get diarrhoea, look at the now slightly faded but still awe-inspiring monuments that the people there had built hundreds or thousands of years ago. Ancient Egypt has been a fan favourite of mine since I was little (specifically the culture like architecture, theology, language, fashion and crafts, and the environment, not conquests or warring) but it has turned into a full-on obsession around 5 years ago. I've learned so much, I knew of all of the locations you mentioned 🥺 I occasionally just remember some part of Egypt and start howling. Auditory stimming be like-
Sigh... tourists are bathing in our drinking water again...
"Ooooooo... Ooooh! OOOOH O-OOH AH AHH AHH AH 👐👏👐👏"
I feel this so much. I felt like this about countless places and times
@Harvard archaeologist Professor no you don't. because melanin corelates with uv radiation, highest at the equator not near deserts. he will probably still get sunburnt and turn brown but uv radiation in egypt is much lower than in northern australia for example.
i think you got the timeline all mixed up. camels were not domesticated yet at the time of the new kingdom and hundreds of thousands of years there would be no manmade structure of any note present anywhere.
I miss the days when you used to upload often. Watching your videos in my teen years, growing up with them, good days. Man I still remember when your Loch Ness monster videos we're new!
I feel exactly the same, Trey's voice takes me to a nice place in my life.
I learned to accept that he does other things in life, but when he makes a video he put a lot of effort into them. I would hate for him to increase frequency at the cost of research and quality. A facet of his videos that makes them enjoyable regardless of the topic is his passion for different subjects being reflected in his work, and I fear that lowering his standards would remove a piece of the soul it has.
@@samuel_mpontes Yeah, it's so nice to listen to him.
SO HAPPY TO SEE YOUR RETURN TREY! This was a well done analysis 👏
I've had a pretty shit week and you being my storyteller for the night has been quite nice. Can't wait for your next upload
Aww, that really means a lot to hear I'm happy I could make your night a little better :)
You are a treasure to humanity, Trey.
This.
13:17 actually made me realise just how cool it is that we have pieces of old history still preserved :)
Great video as always! You have been one of my favorite KZheadrs for so long!
This was really interesting, I always get this feeling of both sadness from what no longer exists, yet gratitude for what we know. I would love to see more videos on specific ancient wonders, cultures, and places.
It is, i too feel the same at times. Think though at what a wonder our modern world would be to someone from back then. That gives me some sense of joy that i have the privilege to live in such a time and witness it’s grandeur.
@@uuhhhmicrotone2435the best thing about our time is that we already have a historic and archaeological science that has been worked on and improved for about 300 years now. We will never travel back in time; but today we know enough of the past that studying it comes close to a travel. It's fantastic!
Just a complete guess, but I think there might be a possibility where nobody was actively lying: since the pyramids were across a large lake in a hot climate, could it have been that they appeared a lot taller due to a superior mirage?
He liivvveesss!! Im so glad to see you posting again!!
I love your videos. I often unsubscribe from channels that I don't watch either because I don't want to, or don't feel like, watching them anymore. But yours are great. I've also shared them a lot with friends and families. You've given me an interest in anthropology that I thank you for!
I respect your obvious love of history as it shows in the quality of your videos, which are extremely well done, my friend. Thank you for this, and all your previous videos. Remember to take time for yourself and unwind. ✌️ and ❤️ to all. 🤗
It is so weird to consider that much of what we think of when we think ancient Egypt was old even by Herodotus' time.
trey i first started watching you maybe around 4 years ago when i was staying in a hotel twice a week for a new job... now whenever i see a new video it reminds me of those days... keep on keeping on!
British museums tryin their best not to look suspicious rn
This is absolutely, without a doubt, one of the best channels on youtube. Keep up the phenomenal work that you do here! Btw good video, kinda like the Colossus of Rhodes video, but more mysterious, i liked it.
kudos to those tour guides messing with herodotus. what a great butterfly effect
Man I love your videos so much, the topics are just so fascinating and no one else out there is doing anything like it, except maybe miniminuteman.
I hear ya, once Milo (miniminuteman) grows up a little more and learns not to be so abrasive when fact-checking work he could be a top tier channel.
@@MikeJ2319 he definitely has a different style haha.
You better believe I clicked this in 0.2 seconds. I’m Egyptian so it’s always nice to hear about where I come from.
I don't know how you do it, but every video of yours is so fresh and so informative! From your topic selection to your meme choices, everything is perfect. The song at the end of every video is the cherry on top. Never stop!
Your delivery has become much clearer over the years. Not the focal point of my continued subscription, but something i have noticed
Trey we missed you so much!!!! Hands down favorite KZheadr and every drop makes me so happy
Quick question: When you give the measurements used by Herodotus, were those translated into actual modern Imperial/Freedom units, or are they still in the Ancient Greek units? Because (keep in mind I just went off a quick google here), a 600 podes ('podes'=Greek for feet) tall pyramid could end up being anything from 580 to 640 modern feet tall, depending on which podes you're using!
580 to 640 feet is not a bif difference ^^' There's 20mm difference between the bigger greek pous and the modern imperial foot, that's less than an inch, it stayed relatively consistant ^^ And he probably used egyptian feet that are 4mm short of the modern imperial foot. In egyptian feet, a 600 feet pyramide would be 180 meters. In modern imperial feet, it would be 182,88 meters ^^
N.B., Imperial and American units don't necessarily match up. They are two different systems. The difference in the two gallons played havoc with an aircraft reference by Angelucci. He took American references, translated to metric, then someone used Imperial for the English translation. Or vice versa. As a result, gallonages in the books are a mess after the age of box kites.
@@hollyingraham3980 Except that in the case of the foot and other distances measures, they have been harmonized between the US and the UK in 1960. A foot is 30,48cm in the US, in Canada and in the UK.
Americans literally use imperial measures because you were British, and the British use imperial which they got from the Romans who invented imperial and named it after themselves. Inches, feet, miles, pounds, ounces -- imperial measures.
@@krankarvolund7771 Mostly just so damn happy to be an American who uses one system and not a Brit or Canook who juggle two daily
Always a good day when Trey posts
so happy to see another video from you!!
you deserve a million subs your content is incredible and unmatched
Your videos turned me on to biology in a wild way. I can't really track the full thing, but I went from your catalog to a guy doing a full history on horses and then to Thought Emporium and genetic engineering. I work in applied high performance computing. Not really going to get into that. But this dive into history and biology that you started for me maybe four years ago has really helped shape my world view. I really enjoy when you release new stuff. This is a fun video. Thanks for your work. You're a real gem. It's always a basking shark.
I'm in the same boat because of this guy and a few other I'm in I.T. transitioning to cloud architect soon but I've always loved reading history and now studying it is basically my second job 😊
@@hybridxtrsame here ! i really want to get into anthropology now ! i always had a keen for it .
Trey your videos are fantastic! I'm so happy that I'm subbed to your channel. I really appreciate the amount of research that you put into your topics.
I always learn something new from Trey, and i look forward to seeing more about ancient history!
Beautifully made video, really love the music and the pictures
I was very surprised. Quality video as always. Keep up the amazing work!
I am so impressed you found those lost pyramids for us
I remember watching you as a kid (8 or 10) and here I am watching you again (now 17). One of the only channels that I've stuck to not because of nostalgia but because your content is that good.
i love these videos especially the iceberg archeology and the books you can never read i’ve been listening to them as i sleep, 10/10 love your videos 💜
My whole week is saved. Love you trey, your vids are exactly what I needed during finals. You are a blessing
Great video once again, Trey. Keep it up!
Thank you for your take on this story. Good to see some critical thinking towards historical sources here on KZhead. It is very rare here. Most "historical mysteries" can be solved by a thorough critical look at the source-material.
100%
Thank you! You have a great style. Love your stuff. More please!
History is one of those final frontiers everyone talks about; once it is lost, it is lost forever. Herodotus provides context otherwise long gone
You know you're a good content creator when people say "Hey, a new TREY video!" with joy just as I did just now. ^^
Dude that Nazi Zombies “fetch me their souls!!” sound bite caught me off guard and instantly transported me back in time 10 years 😂😂
TREY thank you I have only started watching your videos recently but now I have watched almost all of your videos and I have learned so much thank you
I'm glad you're making videos again, Trey. Can't wait to see what else you have for us.
I feel like we've been not getting enough Trey, if only there was some way we could get a video atleast once a month. I'd he happy with that.
I'm striving to get a video out at least once a month! I will try my best to increase my output without decreasing my quality :)
@@TREYtheExplainer quality over quantity every time
I love your mix of historic accuracy and wicked memery
I was actually wondering about this when I was reading the Histories, great video, keep it up!
I love this stuff! Keep it up Trey!
Hey, Trey! Love your videos so much! Could you do a more detailed video on all or the top 5 things Herodotus mentioned that have been lost to civilisation or have been made up? Would be absolutely amazing!
this is a great video, very informative and well researched
Nobody asked, but I remember discovering Trey the Explainer near beginning of my freshman year and now i’ll be graduating in 4 weeks. Thx for all of your content Trey :)
Great video once again. Keep up the incredible and amazing work. You are awesome.
Missed you Trey!!!! Love your vids, keep making them ❤❤
Aww thank you so much man, I'm so happy you like them! I will definitely keep making more :)
I haven't watched you in a long time, but this video was a banger, worth the wait!
So happy to get a new video from you
Lovely as always! I was surprised I've never heard of this myth before, so thank you for enlightening me! Oh, and I also enjoyed the parody song 😉😂
I can’t believe you dropped a video, exactly when i was wondering when you would upload a video!
your videos are therapy for me
Your videos about hipotetic historical object or objects lost in the sand of time are really interesting. Even more than speculative material.
I'm a simple man, when I see Trey drops a new video, I click and enjoy it. Amazing work as usual man !
Finally on time for a new video, and a cool topic to boot!
And this is why I subbed, thanks again for what you do.
Thanks Trey for existing. One of the greatest youtube channels there is.
Stuff like this makes me want to see more Egyptian structures that are now ruined or entirely missing and what they used to be in their prime
"I guess like Tut-si-pop." You know, I can't even be mad, that was CLEAVER!
Holy shit XD haha that wasn't even intentional but I'm just going to say it was now
@@TREYtheExplainer That mind is as sharp as a sickle to not even do it on purpose.
I miss this channel so much, it's good to have u back Trey
When Vector showed up out of the blue you had me giggling 😂 excellently done sir
Thank you sir trey. Lovely video as always
I love that this prank went on so long. Well done, sirs.
1:38 As soon as I heard that, I was going to make this joke lol. Nice one.
Wuhu my favorite youtuber is back!
Wonderful job Trey! Interesting and well written with lots of fun graphics. Keep ‘‘em coming please
Trey I NEED MOARREE CONTENT 🐐 Your THE best at this pls make more videos!!
Love your vids, thanks for this one
Great video! This was so interesting. I can't believe I've never heard of any of this before!
The day Trey uploads is a good day
why isn’t this video’s title “Egypt’s Disappearamids”?
Very interesting video. It also relates to a subject I've grown curious about recently!
Tour guides behaving like tour guides since ancient Greek times 😂
This makes me realize that we humans don't rule the Earth, it's just our turn to live here. The same way the time of the Dinosaurs passed, so will ours. But life on this planet always continues, who knows what the next dominant species will be.
Loved this, I had no idea about the missing pyramids!