Whats the point in short travel ebikes. What exactly is a lightweight ebike. New racing format ideas, and Fox's new 38 GripX2
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Please do the trip to Dyfi! 3 riders, 3 bikes: Sonni, Mondraker Dune & Whyte Elyte 140. Swap bikes and see if opinions are the same by the end of the day.
Seconded 👍🏻
I like the sound of this 😎
Long travel and short travel are aimed at different people, I have no intention of doing a World Cup DH course or serious jumps at any bike park. I own both, a LT full fat and a light weight shorter travel eMTB. The Orbea rise is my go to, it’s easier to transport, nicer to ride and doesn’t feel like I’m wrestling a gorilla round my predominantly XC loops. Honestly, Rob is only looking at this from his point of view, many other consumers with different needs out there. I’d love to see a super super lightweight eMTB with more XC setup tbh.
100% agree. Shorter travel, lighter bikes are just more fun for me on XC or moderately technical trails but I’d definitely like to have a longer travel bike as well. I rode a Rise at Cannock Chase recently and it was so much fun!
Thanks for watching the first show! Let me know any feedback, or any topics we should cover in the future weeks! Thanks, Rob
Rob, I think there is something in your perfect bike weight calculation ..... but you'd need to include your height too as that would dictate a larger or smaller bike as well. So for example yours was 21.25kg but once you factor in height it will determine the size of bike and then in your case would increase the 21.25kg.
Podcast format?
Hopefully your influence can ban the term acoustic bikes for once and all! It's Amish bike now anyway 😂 (Shout out ride companion podcast for that)
@@joehoeper4648 yes, its also available in podcast from today on apple / spotify and amazon
Can’t actually find on Spotify (I can see your 2018-2020 rob recharged). On overcast iOS app can’t see any.
Congrats on your new show, no doubt this will be very successful. Good to see Adam back on air too 👍🏽
Thanks - is so great to have Adam and Will on the podcast!
Great format, loved the free flow conversation about subjects we're all interested in. Keep it up!
I have a 170/170 and I find it a bit boring and almost difficult when trying to pump rollers on a flowy trail. My fav regular bike on a trail like that was 115 in the back (epic evo) and that is the trail type I ride 99% of the time. But also, how hard do you want to snap tables I feel like is the real defining question here. The heavier it is, the less laid over flat you can get. I get the impression from the conversation Will gets them the most flat or inverted out of the three of you (My bmx background is showing sorry, but I do sense a video idea in there hahaha).
Enjoyable eclectic ramble. 😂👍 The 3 of you bounce off each other quite well. Will tune in next week for sure. 👍👍
Glad you enjoyed it 😊
I would like to see you youngsters riding the hard tail/ no front suspension bikes we used to race in the late 80s and early 90s then when rock shocks with all of 2 inches of travel which were out of my price point, I thought it was great when the “flex stem” with its elastomer damping which was affordable now come 30 odd years later and I now ride a 2019 Focus Thorn which is pure luxury by comparison it does not have a lot of travel but I keep it at max air in shocks and forks and is great 👍I might add I am now about to hit 67 years old and plan to ride as long as I can
oh yeah I remember the Girvin Flex Stem, was about the same time when I bought my first suspension fork, RST400 with elastomer elements. Both systems were complete crap, got super stiff when it got below 10 degrees (celsius). Tried Judy Butter and everything else on the market, but did not help a lot.
Always long travel, 170-180 rear, 180-190 front with big battery and a full powered motor at 24kg max. Of course, we all live for the day those specifications will be applied on a 19-20kg bike
Rob is 1000% correct! 200/200 is the answer! You can do literally anything with it, but you can’t with short travel! I don’t understand why anyone would want to limit themselves with short travel. I also like my travel to be the same front and rear. Shorter travel in the rear than the front also makes no sense to me. Great video and keep up the good work! PS, mine is a 190/200 Bosch CX Race powered ebike and it’s only 21.7kg or 48lbs and it rips!😎👍🏼 Pss, I love your idea of ebike racing, XC type loop but with steep knarley tech climbs and descents with a mass start. That would be awesome!
Out of curiosity, what bike are you riding?
@@eBikerHowie Same as you bro, I have the Voima!
@@onetime242 Looking at the new Salsa Notch Deore 12 as a replacement, if necessary. It can be upgraded to 190/180 with no problems. And the MSRP is only $5999 USD. Also comes with the new Bosch Gen 4 motor. Hell of a deal.
@@eBikerHowie I love my Voima and I’m going to keep it and run it into the ground. If and when it needs to replaced, I’ll probably get a Crestline frameset and swap all of the parts. Until then I’ll keep shredding on it. Hopefully someone will buy Pole and keep them in business though. 🤞🏼
The first generation Levos were 135 mm rear and 140 up front. I still ride a 2016 and long forked it with a 160 and mulleted the front with a 29 I still am a fan of the plus size wheels which makes the bike feel way less harsh 27.5 x 3.0 18 psi rear 29 x 2.6 front 16 psi and wide rims.
bro Rob, keep up with the amazing ebike content man, this is amazing and I am really happy to see this will be an on going thing love the idea of podcast ebike content!! ❤ massive thanks
thanks for this! Appreciated :-)
and Adam should apologize in the next episode for saying hes choice would be a 25kg 130mm rear travel do it all ebike 😂
@@milocuevasApologies won’t be needed, I’m sticking to my word! Hahah. I have to say that I had so much fun on the Canyon Neuron:ON with 130mm on the back, it’s convinced me it’s the way forward.
My first emtb was a cube hardtail with 110mm of travel - I thought it would be a good budget entry, but I very quickly found the limit of that travel I tried a few 160/180 bikes but ended up falling in love with the Cube Hybrid Stereo 140 - which has 150mm up front and 140mm on the rear I 100% agree that skill matters more than travel and long travel is way past my skill level. I do a lot of red routes and I'm definitely running out of skill before suspension travel I also love that the 29's roll over things well, and I love that XC and milder routes after work during the week are still fun as the bike is so playful, when I tried a long travel it made the easier routes feel utterly boring. Great to see the new podcast, look forward to listening every week!
The Cube Hybrid 140 is a GREAT bike
Really nice format, keep on going :) And I would be the 170 guy as well, 130 not enough 200 too much. 170 sweet in the middle to do everything :)
I regularly rent the Trek Rail 7s up at Dalby. I've never once thought "I wish I had less travel" although I do feel you could ride there with less for sure. I have however consistently thought "I wish this bike rode like this but was 10kgs lighter". Either way, i'm still in the "I actually can't believe how amazing these bikes are" phase. There's an EMBN video with the ex-racer who has modified a Trek Rail to be just under 20kgs. Perhaps a concept for a future video. Building the lightest full power big travel e-bike. Additionally, i'm definitely in the market for an ebike but there are a few issues from my perspective. 1) Price. 2) Accessibility to test rides. 3) Rate of innovation. Hard to commit £6k+ on a bike that I can't test ride and might be obsolete in a year. These are the challenges for the industry. Wish there was a huge multi-manufacturer test ride day somewhere. So travel/weight considerations aside, I personally just can't justify the purchase at the moment.
hey, great Podcast,as a light rider my sweet spot is 170 light Ebike w 18kg, Mondraker Dune is Amazing,greetings from sunny Algarve -JONYS E BIKE TOURS
Oh it’s Adam off Embt good to see him back
Love this. It's great to see Adam on the show, but i think he should just have held his hands up and said i was wrong on the travel topic , he's talked hinself into a showdown he cant win 😂😂 make sure you get the vioma or sonni in the 3 bike travel challenge!! Great show 👏
Thanks, as owner of lightweight (Orbea Rise M10) and full fat (Canyon Strive:On CFR) I really enjoyed the podcast. I think that both of them have its place. Time will tell :-)
Great podcast guys. I think if you get used to something over time then that is what becomes normal in regards to power and weight. Rob has been riding e-bikes for so long and the norm now is around 25kg for full power. On the other hand if you ride a normal non powered bike you get used to that weight. So going from a normal bike to an e-bike used to be quite a difference in terms of weight and power. Now to bridge the gap they have bikes like the Specialized Levo SL and Trek Fuel EXE. Which makes sense for people who are still riding normal bikes but may fancy an e-bike but don’t need all that power.
Rob's correct, I've had fitted fox 40s to my kenevo and obviously it performs well at bike park, but now I'm realising I can ride my trails and actually climb 70% of my techy trails.
Great chat guys, really enjoyed the conversation.
I just test rode a Whyte E Lyte 140 and 150 (amongst others) at Cannock Chase recently and never once did I think “I wish I had more travel”. The light weight, fast rolling tyres (on the 140) and snappy, short travel suspension felt fantastic there. I think like most things relating to bikes, it’s all subjective and very much depends what/where/how you ride; if I was going to a bike park or a more gravity-biased area like Surrey Hills I’d want more travel but around most of the trails I ride, a light, shorter travel EMTB would be perfect for me. Ultimately the solution is to have two (and I’d never be without a normal XC/trail MTB!) but the way I see it, if you can only have one EMTB, and you do ride everything from XC trails to bike park/enduro trails, I’d get a longer travel EMTB as it has a wider operating window. The Orbea Wild was still a massive amount of fun around the relatively tame, undulating part of Cannock we were testing on where as the E Lyte 140 would NOT be my ideal choice for really steep, rocky or knarly terrain.
In 2009 I rode the Fort William DH track on my Spesh Enduro SL, with 150mm travel but it also had 3 spokes missing from the front wheel 😬 For riding now, me and my son both have Trek Rail ebikes with 160 front and 150 rear. Pretty much would use these for riding to the shops and also riding Fort William
Great first podcast Rob, Adam & Will. I don't yet ride an ebike but I'm sure I will be soon and follow your channel in the name of research. Currently ride a short travel pedal trail bike so found this topic very interesting. Rob - when will you be doing a ride review of the Cube AMS Hybrid you showed recently?
thanks ! Cube vid coming very soon
Is this going to be available audio only on Apple Podcasts as well? Love your content! Keep it up!
Yes definitely. It’s already on Spotify, I’m waiting on Apple but it’s going to be there 100%
Found it on Apple
Not pointless at all! If you want a easy ride up and a playful ride down, there is nothing better than a light weight short travel EMTB. So a combination of short travel and light weight is really nice to ride. A heavy short travel is really a hit pointless. I went for the Pivot shuttle SL as it feels like a normal bike. Was such a relief after I had to ride a 24kg Trek Rail XT before
complete difference in ride feel!
@@RobRidesEMTB yes. Even I like to ride fast trails without braking, my trails are steep and technical. The short travel bike is the better choice in this environment as it's easier to bring such bike in the right position. In tight turns it's much easier to pivot this bike around its front wheel.... my pivot shuttle SL also hops much better over obstacles compared to the Trek Rail. But this is more a matter of geometry/kinematics than a matter of travel.
Rob, I own three EMTBs. Mondraker crafty R 150/160 55kg Crestline 180/170 54kg and pivot SL 140/150. I like them all for different reasons. I ride in central Texas with lots of rocks short up/down shoots. I want a trials type EMTB . Full power > 20kg 140/160 ( high bottom bracket) 155 cranks. Making a trials type bike would really work in technical single track. I think the market is missing this. I wish Gas Gas would design this🏁🏁
Subjective is the word I'd use .On my salary I can only afford one bike . So it's a 180/160 Whyte E bike . I use it for everything as it's my only option. If I could afford a short travel elite as well I would have one for local blasts . So my point is I live near tweed valley so if i can only afford one ebike it a long travel full fat . Which I use on xc Cheviot loops ,scenic Commute to work and the odd DH day at Innerliethen
It would have been helpful to have defined the travel boundaries. Possibly in MTB world, the numbers get blown up out of proportion, do look at the real world size of 1mm and 1cm (10mm), very small. Projected effect on riding for average joe may just be as small. Lastly, it is about setting up your suspension to your riding style, isn’t it?
I'm totally with Rob on the travel. I have 170/150 travel on my Levo and I'd like more. I don't really see (or rather feel) the downside of longer travel. I'd rather have the capability for when big hits are happening.
Decades ago when I had my first 'Townsend' mtb with no suspension I thought wouldn't it be great if mountain bikes had suspension! Much later I bought a Mongoose with 3"/2.5". Then Giant Anthem 100mm travel. Now added Trek Rail 5 with 160/150. Even now I think more travel would be great provided you could have different settings/lockout. I go for 'plush' over very rough terrain. I would like to try a fat bike with suspension on the rough as I think the wider tyres would 'float' over rough rutted stuff. To be honest I just can't see the point of hard tails and always prefer full 29's for better 'roll over'. I am no youngster at 70, maybe that explains my preferences?
You guys forget about the Giant Trance Advance Elite! Full power + 400wh under 20kg
I think 150mm is the least I would want for a full powered 50lbs plus e bike. That extra weight needs more cushion for comfort IMO. The lighter e-bikes are probably okay with less travel.
I have two ebikes levo and keno, I converted my levo gen 2 to a Dirt bike (140 mm) , hence drop the weigh from 23 to low 20 kilos. For small to medium jumps 4 meter gaps you can clear them with out to much speed. As soon I can afford another ebike I am buying the new Norco fluid for trail riding. note, I ride everyday to work and for fun. If I can only choose one bike, 180 mm full power,because I like to jump and ride fast
I agree with Rob if you're going to have an e-bike you might as well have one with massive travel. Otherwise just ride your regular bike. I think the kenevo SL is probably the best and that would be my one bike, unless Santa Cruz makes their bullit e-bike in an SL soon
Very interesting, Rob 😊 I have been thinking about what you guys said about ebike racing 🏁 I was thinking it should be very much like car rallying without timed stages 😀 yes I think the light weight ebikes with full power motors smaller batteries ❤
@T.ELE-GRAM-RobRidesEMTB is this real or something unknown person 🤔
Spammer
@RobRidesEMTB I have an auto block on mine, stops all the s.x worker, etc 😑
Im with rob! I had 140-140 e bike before and the first time i rode big travel e bike i was like why do i ride short travel… mainly i think its where i live (south finland) because we dont have big hills to ride up and blast down. I call it ”flarground enduro”. You just put it to turbo and pedal the life out of it and treat it like motocross bike. I see the point in light weight short travel bikes for some one not so agressive trail riders. But superlight e bikes does make sense if you dont trail ride and your bike park does not have shuttle. But for only one e bike, defenetly big travel and big power🤌
I really enjoyed that. Well done chaps.
I'd say 75Nm is the bottom end of full power. That was the top end of full power a few years ago so I don't really think we can downgrade those bikes out of the category. We only started referring to low and high when the 35Nm Levo SL came out, so mid power is really anything between those numbers.
Living in Innsbruck (Tirol) also near Germany the Mountainbike community here is huge, and we start to see really good EMTB for Mountainbiking. But majority of EMTB are sold to the people that just to trekking. If i go on weekend with my gravel bike in the Garmisch erea 90% of bikes are eEMTB with people that have nothing to do with Mountainbiking. Also now they are the no1 bikes for rental. And i get your point, you are thinking as a mountainbiker, but the industry doesn't think like that. Yes we get proper Mountainbikes in a package of EMTB, but everywhere i see cheap 150mm emtb with large seat bags strapped on the dropper post driven not ridin by normal people.
I know what you mean. The older generation using the bikes as a sightseeing and touring vehicle. It must depend where you are. I don't see any of those riders, as I only ride at places for actual mountain bikers, where the eBike is just a tool to get back to the top and hit more tracks in the time you have, or ride for longer as you get less tired pedalling back up
@@oliverbourne9599 not just older generation. Even younger people. I guess is good maybe they will get in mountainbiking(not). I see this also at the delivery guys, they use proper emtb like expensive ones. I guess the looks matter more. The companies know this. Again I have nothing with ebikes But it's not the only industry that does this.
what do u guys think about the conway ryvon lt or the dune? are they the right way to do light ebike?
180mm is the new baseline on full suspension in my opinion and I live in Florida 😊
Skill over travel :) Short travel is just more fun. I have both and I like short travel a bit more because it's just more fun and that's why I ride versus plowing. Plowing is fun too but it gets old after a while. He's right that kinematics and geo is more important than actual travel. Just putting more air trying to make a 200 travel into a 140 travel doesn't work. The curve isn't linear and the dynamics will be off.
Let's put this on the table. 65 years old, slower reflexes, many biking injuries. My full power, 200/190 Voima is perfect for all my rides.
Apt as I am considering focusing on vam vs jam SL at the moment
Thanks for the content, Rob. But where is this Cube one44 review?
Coming very soon, I’m just getting the XL sized bike, I had the large originally, I wanted the bigger bike.
I was wondering where Will had got to . . . . .
Right here brother 👋
Can't really see the point of racing an ebike, as most of the time youd be over the limiter, so basically just pedaling a heavy bike.
I’m pretty new to mtb. I loved the one season of red bull down hill I got to watch, it was epic. Now the uci have screwed up mtb and thrown it in the bin it’s fucked. All I get to see is the last 3 runs on you tube. A day or two later. I don’t know if anybody actually knows how to watch it now. I think I read something about only certain countries getting access to it. They’ve geolocked nZ out of it, I think the whole of South America too, basically only the US UK and CANADA can legally pay for it, because the payment cards have to be from those countries. It’s mad. It’s no wonder so many teams are pulling out of it because nobody can actually watch it.
Probably Better to Have one of Each a 130/140 XCLight Weight EMTB and a 180/170 For Downhill and Playing on,Its Gearboxes in motors that is Going to Change Bikes As Long as they Can get the Price Down
So if headphones are so essential, why does nobody wear then on TV programmes, interviews, reports ? They look ridiculous
160 front and rear for me all day
Yup, anything more and I’m on the chairlift
Can you run a Fox 38 that's not E tuned or E Optimised on a levo?
yes definitely, no issues at all there, in fact, a great combo
I just got a 2023 Giant Stance EX E+... 140/120, comes with absolutely basic fork/shock combo to keep the cost down. Phenomenal bike for bike paths and very light off-road. Absolutely horrible on any real MTB terrain. Blow through the travel too easily as the bike is too heavy, fork/combo are not up to the task of harder more serious off-road riding. How he can ride a 150/130 and enjoy it is beyond me. I don't find that enough on a regular MTB let alone an ebike... lol
What about the Orbea Rise? Its lightweight and full fat. Well ... its full fat weight of the motor, and can be tweaked. Thats the perfect scenario surely? Havihg a motor that can be set to 50nm or 85nm if you want.
@RobRidesEMTB I assume the above is spam? 👍🏻
They’re should be weight divisions for e bike racing like boxing devisions.
should be in teams and throw a ball around too
Yes.
Just out of curiosity,Why wearing headphones when you’re sitting right next to each other?.
Yes a question a few people have asked - here's some reasons: riverside.fm/blog/why-do-podcasters-wear-headphones#:~:text=Do%20you%20need%20headphones%20while,hear%20what's%20they're%20saying.
Like new show
Mid travel for the win.
Im with rob 200-200 💪🏻
Wearing headphones while conversation is pointless 😅
Not for podcast type stuff, it really helps monitor voice volume levels, hear each other better and make sure its balanced :-)
@@RobRidesEMTB so my comment was pointless 🤪
No, because many people may think the same! It does look weird, but can make a difference for sure!
@@RobRidesEMTB and it looks cool. I would go crazy as my ears have tendency to overheat below such headphones 😃 great show! I have another topic for you already. Seems the bike industry is really in a problematic situation. What has to happen this will change? When will it change? What does the market need (new products, new concepts) to gain tempo again? ....
Yeah no point. You are only losing with less travel. With an ebike you don't need to think about the efficiency like you would on a normal bike.
Enjoyed your show why all the park cone spanners are they for working on bikes in the eighties ha ha . Your comment Rob on floating over rock sections and having fun i think you need to get a ktm 150 then the fun really starts i ride a hardcore hardtail 160mm lyrik 29 looong and slack anallog on epic dh type xc rides and if i want to jump of everything and float i ride my ktm 200 exc look forward to next week.
Those park tool cone spanners came in a park tool starter pack, and yes they are useless 🤣 Make good set decoration though haha! Would love to try that KTM 👊
I like it…
Rob your modern geometry is rubbish! Geometry is either flop (down mountain) or flow (rolling hills) you prefer flop plus (boring) 29in wheels. I want and can get custom made MI-tech who make flow geometry with 160mm travel with (responsive) 27.5 in wheels.
Got to say Rob (and I mean no offence) but it really seems like you want 200mm travel to make everything easy!! So you don’t have to think or care about lines etc just the bike does everything for you, is that really what mtb is about? For me especially if your a hobby rider etc travel should be based on your main location, if you actually lived at fort William yea a 200mm e-bikes makes sense! But for 90/95% of the uk it’s just overkilling your trails taking all the fun and changing out of them!
No offence taken at all! Its all personal preference, and I like to hear other riders perspectives and preferences also! Personally I like the long travel (means I can travel anywhere and have a do it all bike, with little downsides - I believe a long travel bike is more versatile for example) but I totally get that it is not for everyone, and that shorter travel feels different, more active and lively, and ultimately more fun for lots of riders! Thanks for the feedback and comment, appreciate you taking the time :-) Rob
I know this is a really old vid but you should check out Paul the punters vid on “why everyone should ride a trail bike” I massively agree with the points raised! I’d also say that other issue with advising people to get on big travel e-bikes is people can then just jump straight on trails which they have absolutely no business being on and totally relying on the bike to get them down… all well and good until something goes wrong! Lol personally I’d say for the UK 90% of the uk probably just needs 150/160 (i have a 155/160 so im being biased lol) 170 max but for me 200mm in my mind would totally kill flow trails! But saying that it would be really really interesting if the 3 of you all went to BPW and you took a 130, 150/160, and a 200 bike and rode everything from blue to black trails and then had the same discussion! As maybe I’m totally wrong about big travel bikes! Lol awesome video though!
Simple answer to the thumbnail, no
Short travel no way - when too much is not enough - just sold my BMW TMX 12” up front and 10” out back 26/24 mullet - had long travel for 25 years jacked my Levo up to get more up front - maybe where I live.
Jacked my Levo up too. Now 170/160 👍👍
Clicbait title, canceling subscription .
The entire first 20 minutes is about short travel vs long travel?
literally pointless to have short travel but i can understand non-full power (even tho i will always stick to my 700wh x 90nm motor)
My eMTB has a bit less travel than my MTB - 140/150 is really great and surely the sweet-spot for me. Longer travel bikes seems to lack precision in curves
E-bike sucks ass
thanks for watching :-)
UK bike sales show emtbs are outselling normal mtbs, suggesting your logic is becoming the minority. I own a hardtail to keep fit and emtb to have fun!
@@gr1809Perfect combo 👌🏼
Get back to pinkbike fool
loool they do if u suck at bikin
Light ebikes are just trail builds.
For me the main point is that the industry is not making good forks for ebikes. Because we all know the industry has to sell and what us consumers to trade and buy new bikes… did they prepare the forks and suspensions for the extra weight ? 🫢
i have the rockshox zeb 38 ultimate and a full battery e bike. the fork is excellent and is great for my 50 lb fezzari timp peak