Square Holes - 5 Methods To Make Them in Metal
G'day everyone,
In this video I will be going through a few methods of creating square holes. I will be needing to machine a few of them in the future in order to repair my broken 4 jaw chuck, and after looking into some of the methods, I thought that it might be an interesting video topic.
In this video we will also be revisiting the old die filer that I used make last year. I will use it to file a hole square. I will also look at shaping a hole square and make a cutter from silver steel. I will also revisit the rotary broach tool I made earlier this year.
How does rotary broaching work?: • How does rotary broach...
Joe Pie's Video: • Can You Grind Tools on...
Timestamps
0:00 - Intro
1:36 - Hand Filing Holes Square
3:04 - Using A Die Filer To Make A Square Hole
5:01 - Using The Milling Machine To Make A Square hole
6:08 - Shaping/Broaching - making the Cutter From Silver Steel (Heat Treatment)
9:58- Shaping/Broaching The Hole
11:37 - Rotary Broaching A Square Hole
#machining #diy
Making Square Holes
Machining Square Holes
For a moment thought I was watching this old tony channel haha
yeah lol
I wish.
I got the same vibe. TOT has been MIA for a while. I hope he's okay. I miss his humour.
Seems Tony has been playing with the time machine again.
Same here, is this the new old tony🤔😅
You can make "reverse" files for your die filer machine. It is easy if you dont mind losing a bit of length. Use a blowtorch to heat the end of the file to anneal it (so it is no longer brittle) then just grind that new "handle end" to a round shape or whatever shape fits your machine mount. Then mount the file upside down. Obviously you can cut off the original handle end. 👍
I was thinking something similar. Logic ;)
We sometimes use the same method as Joe in CNC machines to make hexes in implant screws, except in CNC it's easier to use a one cornered tool and index between corners. It's considered a form of skive broaching. Great intro, btw.
Holding a rotary broach that way without a specially made tilted holder for the tail stock was a nice idea. I have been thinking about a rotary broach but thought it was too much work for something I would use so seldom but a chuck in the regular tool holder can be used for so much more.
Love the home made square bit at the start - funny! Great informative video. Thank you.
Best part about machining (at least for me) is that there is so much I don't know and so many people to show me stuff. Thanks for the video.
Good watch , something cool about making a perfect square hole in steel. Yes that Joe Pie has some really good knowledge both old and new school.
You can drill holes slightly outside the shape of a square hole so that it will accept a square plug, and get a more fatigue-resistant structure for it.
There are nice cast iron kits for die filers available in several places online. Def worth looking into for anyone who has a need for one.
I subscribed a while back and continue to watch your videos. This has become my favorite channel, and after watching your shop tour, I am amazed what you are able to do in such a small space! I really hope you continue making these videos. You are an inspiration!
Finally! I know I'm not crazy. I saw a video of the Colt factory making 1911's. They were using a "filing machine" to make the cut out on the back of the grip, the area where the spring housing is held. If I recall the machine also lifted the file up a little on the non cut stroke.
It's almost 02h00, could not sleep and so turned on KZhead. This was the perfect video for the hour. Great skills!
Very informative, particularly the broach tool and heat treatment detail.
This is such an awesome video. Making that cutter from an old end mill was great in an of itself.
love the off screen supersonic hacksaw use... I am a heat it up and wack a square punch in to it person but I like these methods....except filing I hate filing because its really hard to get decent files here. thanks for sharing
Excellent video. Thanks for taking the time to do this
9:55 this method is my favorite since the concept of "pressing metal away"-and at such a relatively slow speed!-is cool as heck.
I can barely afford good "normal" drill bits let alone these fancy square drill bits! I've got drawers full of cheap drill bits which prefer burning through the work instead of actually cutting anything! Now I am told I can't even use the for broaching tools?...Why have I saved all these dull drill bits for? I really enjoyed the intro, made me smile! Keep up the good work!
Bardzo świetny jest ten pomysł na kwadratową dziurę pozdrawiam twórcę tego filmiku 👍👍👍👍
If you put isopropanol onto your file, it will be much easier to file aluminum. It prevents the clogging of the file and the finish is so much better. Equally well, I never drill a hole into aluminum without using isopropanol on the drill bit. The hole quality is like night and day.
will give that a try
I will try that also
Just found your channel. Excellent info, clearly presented. You have a new subscriber Sir!
Gday, great examples, I made a rotary broach and for making hex’s it’s brilliant, cheers
I love the Die Filer......Lovely machine
FYI - HSS lathe tooling works well enough for cutting square holes in a sliding style cutting setup like you used in your quill, and they will generally work with the grind they come with straight out of the box.
Yeah it does work, but I found that the edge doesn't hold up as well compared to silver steel
@@artisanmakes Do you mean 1.2210 steel?
I mount my files ‘upside down’, glued into a tube which fits the holder on the die filer. If you put the tube in the lathe Chuck, and the file in the tailstock, you can get them pretty true. Apart from then being downward cutting, the other benefit is that you can fit a handle onto them so you don’t poke your eye out 👍🏻
Very interesting. Thank you.
Thank you.... that was so good, learning is joy.
Hilarious intro. And you mentioned Chris from Clickspring, so I gotta subscribe!!
Fine education. Fine editing and acting.
really enjoy this one thanks
I personally use round bits in an ever decreasing size remove material approaching the corners, right down to a few angstroms in diameter. Strictly speaking the resulting hole isn't perfectly square, but it's pretty close. Admittedly it does take a while.
I think that square drill bit will be a game changer once it’s released
Why start with a round drill bit when your looking for a square hole. Just use a sqare dril bit. Its so simple, but everyone wants to make a video.
@@kevinschulmeister2054 it’s the 1st thing I’ll buy
For your die filer it should be possible to grind the tip cylindrical to fit the receiver and allow down filing with a bit of loss of stroke but I think it can be managed.
Great video. For thin materials I use a hydraulic punch with square die.
I have also had good luck hammering square HSS bits through round holes in aluminum...obviously you have to protect yourself from the hss chipping/ exploding...but with some simple preparation it works rather quickly
Here in Turtle Creek / Wilmerding Pennsylvania, USA.there was a company that made square and hexagonal drill bits. It was on Airbrake Ave. This was the home base for George Westinghouse. My math / geometry teacher had one and demonstrated it on a bar of soap. He was teaching something called a loci of points. The way the bit worked was there was a square jig, A block of metal that already had a square hole in it that the bit went into to guide it. With each revolution of the bit, the cutting edge would take off more along the square profile. At first it only cut along the edge, then it would hit the corner and the path would go along the next side of the square. If you ever saw the Spirograph toy it was a wee bit like that.
Very good! I made one turning tool by my self to turn square holes. Here it var som other good examples too.
Great work
Since you made that die filer, you could always make a die filer where the motor is on top and the file cuts down into a hole in the table, it would kind of look like a band saw lol.
great idea bro thanks
Pretty neat having Chris as a neighbor!
Nice video, @7:36, precise square, thanks :)
@0:48 the square Drillbit! Applause, applause, applause😂😂😂
Thank's for the video😀
@4:06 -- You should add some air assist to this. There's a lot of build-up of chips in your file, and getting that out of the file during each stroke would probably help it function faster.
Thanks for the video
I have made many cutting tools with 'silver steel' (drill rod, to me), and all I did was heat it to yellow and quench it in oil. Sufficient tempering seems to take place during the cooling process. If I was making a drill, or similar cutting tool, I chucked the tool in a drill press and heated it while rotating before lowering it into an oil can, so it would not warp.
A superbe video, thank you very much !
Thank you, it was interesting and informative with high production values. How did you determine when the silver steel became non-magnetic? The obvious of bringing a permanent magnet near it, or some other method?
@@mmm365 The whole point is you don't need to measure the temperature, you just get it to the point that a magnet won't attract it. This is the same point that the internal structure of the metal changes to make it hard. It will be a red heat to get it to this point.
@@ferrumignis Interesting: the video gives the impression the work piece is short of going red??? Thanks for video. Pete
Great video!
Thankyou
EDM, including wirecut EDM, is also an option. Along with plain broaching of holes.
I learned a few good things today
I enjoyed it very much
Excellent!!! O.K., Machinist of 40+ years here in the Jobbing shop, and an Owner. Silver Steel, must be water hardening drill rod in this case. Tempering at 220 degrees... Celsius? ( I am American, Fahrenheit here where 220 would do nothing but boil water ) I have a rotary broach system, but never understood if id cammed to a small degree, but you just broke the truth to me, set at minor angle out of alignment. I now wonder, 1 degree, 2?... 3?? Awesome. Thanks a lot!!!! Mark
Why did you used salt in the quenching water? I've never seen that before, is it to increase the boiling point or to decrease the specific heat capacity? maybe it's for something else?
When I was an apprentice, we all had to make a hacksaw frame each. Part of the design involved filling a 1/4” square hole to a rather tight tolerance - through 1/2” thick steel.
I know at the end you mentioned there are many other ways, but a push broach with a press is a convenient way to make square holes. The Joe Pi method is really cool. Can that do blind holes as well?
Yeah I don't see why not
Did you save the metal filings for thermite? I used to work at a factory job in the 1970s where I filed the mating surfaces of a pair of tweezers. I forced the unfiled tweezers into an opening in a die where a file reciprocated up and down. I had to wear leather protectors on my thumbs and index fingers. I was paid by the piece, and occasionally made OK money for the era.
suggestions for a 3mm square hole in brass ?
Could you turn the die filer into an over arm version to use standard files?
What about edm wire cutting? Electrical discharge machining? Can get some crazy tolerances with it!
Let me know when those square drill bits are ready for mass production, I'll need quite a few of them for this bridge I just bought
Making a blind hole is much more difficult, especially if only one is required. Many years ago I built a tool that required a 3/8" square hole 3/8" deep to fit a socket set handle to operate the device. A fixed handle was out-of-the-question as it would have interfered with machining operations. I laid out the square hole and drilled 1/16" holes at the 4 corners, tangent with the sides of the square. Then drilled out the middle of the square with a 23/64" dia. drill. Hand work using needle files did the rest. Did not take that long to do this part of the job. Nowadays I would EDM that hole with my shop-built machine.
You could also make the tool in two parts, one with the square hole as a through hole and then the other half, either a transition to round socket or whatever and just line up the holes and weld them together. Might not work for every application, but should be a useful solution for some parts.
i appreciate the this old tony style intro haha
Nice cuts! Bet those guys in the chinese mint mints their coins(sand casting) the other way around a dozen centuries ago. Oddly, it was performed as such so it was much easier to work on those round coins.
We also used an EDM die sinker with graphite blanks or an EDM wire with .031 wire.
Hey mate, might be a silly question, but could you turn your die filer upside down? This would make the needle files cut on the down stroke.
That's what my father did about 25 years ago. He also built his die filer and also had the same complaint of the file grabbing and lifting the work. He ended up flipping it and mounting it at the head of a busted drill press.
Yes you could, I might have to braze a shank to the end to give it a bit more length though
I would love to have a filing machine. Having been wondering if one could modify a scroll saw to do similar work.
I saw one made out of a saber saw in a machinist magazine years ago.
A refractory brick makes a nice bed for heating up small parts when heat treating. Two or three make a little chamber to contain the torch heat even better.
good movie for teaching with idea! I wish to have EDM to uese imprint square shape, especially dead end square hole need that.
Can you design the filing machine around the files that are readily available?
There are screw-driven square hole punches that punch 1 mm sheet steel. Prob can handle 2 mm Alu sheets. For a thicker part >>> stack and glue multiple 2 mm alu sheets together.
Easy to do with a cnc, you use a triangle endmill and create a non cycloid mouvement by synchronizing the rotation and mouvements
So cool
Bem explicado
Getting better all the time. Q: the part made at 7:20 is not the same part shown at 7:40 and onward. Its hard to see but I don't see much relief on the second one. Why the change? Using the quill that way is a very old dodge used to emulate the powered or hand shaper/slotters of old, at lease 150 years old, not a new thing. Glad you warned about over stressing the quill drive.
It's the same part but I had to do another pass, the first cut wasn't deep enough. Cheers
Ihv seen a square hole in a solid granite stone measuring about 8ft by 12ft with a thickness of 4ft. The square hole is 2ftby2ft. The stone is part of a sculpture in a temple built about 500years ago in South India. There's also a granite chain measuring about 1ft in thickness for about 10ft in length, hanging over 20ft height.
is it possible to made one for un quarter bit only I need to punch a thin disk of metal in the form of a un quater bit exagonal to add to a little toole in plastic for 1\4 bit sise jack 47 71
How do you know what to use as quenching medium? I’ve seen normal water before and oil sometimes, never seen an explanation of the logic behind the selection
depends on the type of Steel you are using
thanks again.
There is another amazing lathe method that uses an offset spin and a three lobed bit. Takes three passes as i recall but leaves no round bits like the last method.
Neat, never heard of that method before
Nice satire! I was not expecting that very funny. First time I felt compelled to comment.
"Many raisins" 😂
Could you make an adapter to mount regular files upside down in your die filer?
Probably
I need to buy like your rotary bunch holder and insert 3.5 , 4 , 4.5 and 5mm hexagonal
Metal shaper with file holding tool works well
Can you alter standard files so they fit the machine the "wrong" way around? You're not using the whole length of the file, so why not
Nice video. Did you need any square holes to make the die filer?
Very interesting your traditional methods. What happen whit the not traditional methods like electro chemical machining, electro erosion and electro contact machining???
Can you post a link for the square drill bits when available please? 😁
First let me go on dragons den for some financial backing :)
I will add two ,ore methodes, First a proper 4 sided broach tool for the size of square you need, they are priced at $300 to $1000 depending on thre size And? a simple square file but used as a BROAH .. this works surprisingly well and very cost effective ... just push the file though a pre drilled with a Arbour Press etc.
Mom: We have This Old Tony at home. This Old Tony at home:
Thanks for you also
thx dude
You could also use a wire or sinker EDM. However, the required machinery is out of most people's budgets.
Man, that is the most TOT intro I ever saw besides TOT 😅
Interesting Video, thanks for that 👍
I live in Melbourne. where do you buy all your materials from. I struggle to fine anything here that's not online and really expensive
I buy a good chuck of my metal from edcon steel. Prices are okay but they don't have minimum order lengths which is very useful for me
0:01 I'm already waiting for the simplest method : Buy a square bit I was not disappointed
I like the automatic filer ,do you have a video on that one?
he made 3 videos on the making of his vintage die filer.
kzhead.info/channel/PLAsaMPMtSe_LDzFpJcI0deuj1Gy2GX7dh.html
@@Kineth1 thank you very much I watched them all but I didn’t catch them until I saw him use it on another project